Untangling fashion's obsession with smoking

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary
Episode Title: Untangling Fashion's Obsession with Smoking
Release Date: November 12, 2024
Host/Author: Shameless Media

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1. Introduction and the Stylish Gift Guide

Timestamp: 00:15 - 04:03

The episode kicks off with hosts Madison Sullivan Thorpe and Annika Joshi Smith welcoming back Rhiannon Joyce, Shameless Media's Head of Business Development. Rhiannon announces the launch of the Stylish Gift Guide, their fourth iteration aimed at supporting Australian and New Zealand brands. She emphasizes the guide’s accessibility, featuring items ranging from under $50 to just below $500, and includes exclusive discount codes.

Notable Quote:

Rhiannon Joyce (01:00): "We want to encourage people to shop local for the holiday season... We've tried to keep [the gift guide] accessible but also have that elevated premium option there if you're wanting something a bit bougie."

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2. Handbag Lifesavers Segment

Timestamp: 04:03 - 08:00

The hosts transition to their favorite Handbag Lifesavers, sharing practical and quirky items they keep in their purses. Annika highlights essentials like Liquid IV for hydration, mini Vaseline lip balms, and Eclipse mints, while Madison discusses items such as Listerine patches, tampons, band-aids, and lip liners. Rhiannon adds her daily antihistamines and the importance of having practical items on hand.

Notable Quotes:

Annika Joshi Smith (05:00): "Liquid IV is honestly the best thing ever... it literally keeps me going."

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (07:45): "I have lip liners and lip glosses floating at the bottom. The best kind of nudes."

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3. LVMH's Acquisition of Polene: Impact and Reactions

Timestamp: 08:00 - 16:13

Madison introduces the topic of LVMH’s acquisition of Polene, a French luxury leather goods brand known for its reasonably priced, high-quality handbags. The acquisition has sparked concerns about potential price hikes, as seen through TikTok videos showcasing lengthy lines outside Polene boutiques. Rhiannon discusses the typical annual price increases in the luxury sector and speculates on LVMH's strategy to support Polene's expansion into categories like jewelry and footwear.

Notable Quotes:

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (08:08): "Polene was established in 2016... it's a pretty reasonable price point."

Rhiannon Joyce (10:43): "I think it's strategic of them to build a community with a lower price point and then slowly over time increase it."

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4. Victoria Beckham's Eponymous Label Finally Profitable

Timestamp: 16:13 - 25:58

The discussion shifts to Victoria Beckham's eponymous brand, which has turned a profit after 17 years, overcoming accumulated losses of £66 million. Victoria credits the introduction of her beauty line, particularly her 2023 perfume, as the turning point. The hosts praise her for resilience and strategic reinvestments, noting her savvy marketing and social media presence as key factors. They also mention her recent Netflix series as a significant PR boost, enhancing her brand’s visibility and relatability.

Notable Quotes:

Rhiannon Joyce (16:13): "Victoria told Harper's Bazaar... 'When I created the fragrance, that's when I believe that we turn from a brand into a house.'"

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (19:59): "I think she is a genius for the beauty line... introducing her leather goods... has been a runway to profitability."

Annika Joshi Smith (19:21): "I think as well, pre-Covid when business was booming... I honestly thought that the business would have been in a far more profitable position."

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5. Mango and the Use of AI Avatars in Fashion

Timestamp: 26:00 - 31:54

Madison brings up Mango’s decision to replace human models with AI-generated avatars to accelerate advertising campaigns and stay competitive with brands like H&M and Zara. The hosts debate the implications of this move, expressing concerns about the loss of human connection and diversity. They highlight the tight profit margins of Polene and draw parallels with previous technological trends like NFTs, questioning the true innovation behind using AI in modeling.

Notable Quotes:

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (26:15): "We're seeing it from brands like Levi's, Louis Vuitton, Nike, who have all teamed up with AI modeling companies."

Rhiannon Joyce (27:33): "You're just trying to push more product out there, get it out there quicker, which just feeds this vicious cycle of trends and over consumption."

Annika Joshi Smith (28:56): "Fashion is a form of self-expression... What happens when you put artificial intelligence and avatars into these roles?"

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6. Fashion's Enduring Obsession with Smoking

Timestamp: 31:54 - 40:21

The core topic, fashion's ongoing fascination with smoking, is explored through a feature by Hikmart Muhammad in WWD. The hosts discuss how smoking, particularly cigarettes, continues to symbolize glamour, edginess, and sophistication in the fashion industry despite health risks. They reference cultural icons like Kate Moss and contemporary trends where celebrities and brands incorporate smoking imagery in their aesthetics. The conversation touches on social media's role in glorifying smoking and its resurgence in modern fashion events and products.

Notable Quotes:

Rhiannon Joyce (33:04): "Smoking is the one vice that's outlived all the others... it hasn't ever really gone away."

Annika Joshi Smith (37:20): "We're seeing smoking paraphernalia across so many brands... it's totally having that cultural moment again."

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (39:27): "Having the conversations about celebrities smoking... it's making a comeback..."

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7. Concluding Remarks

Timestamp: 40:21 - 41:19

The hosts wrap up the episode by reiterating the highlights of their discussions and expressing excitement for future topics. They invite listeners to engage via email or social media, while also acknowledging their production team.

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Additional Notes

• Notable Segments Skipped: The episode includes advertisements and promos for eBay and the Inherited podcast, which have been excluded from this summary as per instructions.

• Cultural References: The hosts draw connections between current trends and historical influences in the fashion industry, providing a comprehensive analysis of the topics discussed.

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This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the "Untangling Fashion's Obsession with Smoking" episode of the Style-ish podcast, providing an informative overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by ebay. Turn your pre loved thing into a money thing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts today are Anika Joshi Smith, and we are very, very thrilled to be welcoming back Shameless Media's head of Business development, Rhiannon Joyce.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Back.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Welcome back, welcome back. That's from my head this whole time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ray is filling in for Joe who is away on holiday. A very well deserved break. But, Ray, you know, we love having you, so we're thrilled.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You know, I love being here.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

How's our week been, everyone?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's Monday.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Monday, but quite busy. Yeah, I'm going to hijack. Yeah, We've been working on something really fun and that's been keeping me quite busy. Oh, do you want to know what it is?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's the Stylish gift guide. Mads, you should.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. I'm pretending I'm, like, surprised. I'm like, I helped curate that gift card.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mads did help curate our stylish gift guide. So for those of you who don't know, we've actually been doing a gift guide for the last four years. So this is the fourth time we've done it previously. We've done it on Shameless podcast. Obviously, Stylish is the home now of fashion, beauty, brand, so it made so much sense for us to reallocate our wonderful gift guide to the stylish pillar. Guys, I'm not lying. I actually think this is our best one yet.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, I'm excited.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can say, as well as someone who's followed the Shameless Gift Guide for all these years. And look, this isn't me treating my own horns. I only gave a couple of recommendations in this solid one, so it is a great gift guide. And what I love is that they're largely Australian brands or retailers. We're really trying to support small and think outside the box for girlsmas Christmas Lunches, Kris Kringle, you name it, we've got you sorted.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I think that is always the ethos behind the Stylish gift guide. We always want to support local. So as you said, Australia, New Zealand brands, even some Australian. New Zealand retailers in there really just want to encourage people to shop local for the holiday season. I feel like it's so easy to just go for the big brands and whilst, you know they're reliable and they're great, I feel like it's a nice little reminder that there are some amazing Brands in our local market that sell really cool things. So categories mostly homeware, lifestyle, bit of beauty, good stocking fillers. So yeah, also really good price range as well. We've tried to keep it accessible but then also have that elevated premium option there if you're wanting something a bit bougie. I'm not going to lie. I actually shot this for myself like a lot because we get a lot of discount codes as well. Yeah. So some exclusive discount codes in there, guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I didn't know that part.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I just got me like a really happy shopping.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What's the lowest price point and what's the highest price point?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Lowest price point. We have few items that are under $50 and the highest price point I think sits just below 500.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So, yeah, know, pretty decent scale. As I said, few discount codes in there. So feel free to buy something for yourself.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Amazing. And when can we expect it to go live?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's live now, so it actually just went live at 4pm Monday, recording time. So happy shopping, guys. There's a lot on there and it'll be live until Boxing Day, I believe. So.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Fantastic.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Your shopping is sorted this holiday season.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Thank you. Stylish and Ran and Matt.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Anyway, what have you guys been up to?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm just so busy as well. I just can't believe we're this close to the holiday season and I'm so exc. Just have two weeks off. I know we talked about living life in capital letters and fast pace and I'm really feeling like I'm ready for that two week break now.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, I agree. We're doing our final sales period now until the end of the year. So it's literally all guns blazing and it's just crazy. And then we're planning our Christmas party on top of that, which I'm very excited about. But my mum's coming to spend Christmas with us and we just love her. She's like me but on steroids. So if you love me, well, you're gonna love my mum, so that's so nice.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So we're popping by for a Christmas drink.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Of course we are, but no, I'm very exc. End of year, good vibes everywhere.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, today we are discussing how fast fashion chain Mango is using AI avatars to replace models. Victoria Beckham's label only just turning a profit after a whopping 17 years in business. Fashion's obsession with smoking and the frenzy around LVMH's acquisition of French leather brand Polene. But first we're going to swap in our favorite Handbag Lifesavers. There's some pretty rogue recommendations that I feel like are going to come in here.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Don't expect anything sexy. It's all about the essentials.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Annika, kick us off. What's in your handbag?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay. When I was in the us, one of my girlfriends introduced me to Liquid iv, which is a form of electrolyte powder. It's triple times the absorption as any other hydrolyte powder form, and it is honestly the best thing ever. Whether you're in a long haul, if you've had a big night out, got a busy day, it, like, literally keeps me going. Mads, I know, like, you're an avid fan as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am an avid fan of these. And don't leave me in a pharmacy unattended because I'm like, I'll fill up an entire basket. But a girlfriend was buying them, and she was like, oh, I've been seeing this on TikTok. So I bought a pack and went back about a week later and bought every single flavor. I'm obsessed with these. I have one every morning before I go and have a coffee, and I just feel like I have more energy. I don't know. Placebo actual, who knows? But I love them. And they.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That sachet you pulled out when we were at dinner and you have to have one of these.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes, I may have. And I would also like to mention that our friend Georgia did also bring three as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

She did.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So we are seasoned veterans, clearly, at being responsible drinkers, because we brought them to have alongside a bottle of wine.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That was my first time, but I feel like I need to really get around them.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay. And then my other ones, honestly, so not sexy at all. But the little mini baby Vaseline lip balms, I always have one of them on me. Actually just lost my one. Mads is looking at me like she's filthy. She hates it. It's actually quite hard to put your fin. Grim. But it's. But it's all you need for your little mini handbag. And then Eclipse mints, because we always need a little mint moment.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I love an Eclipse Mint, but it has to be the intense flavor. Have you had the intense flavor?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

The blue one?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The blue?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No, I'm green always.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, no, I'm with you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Green.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You have to have the intense. It honestly will, like, the first couple times you do it, it, like, honestly blows your socks off.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I reckon you're a fisherman's friend.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I am.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Big time.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Like, they're kind of spicy, but I feel like if it's not spicy. It's not minty enough. Like, it needs to be, like a bit of a burning sensation in my mouth. Is that like. Of course you do.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Of course you do.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I just need it to be really, really fresh. And, yes, I am a fisherman's friend kind of gal.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, There we go.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I like the little packet as well.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I like the Smith. No Smint, no kiss.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh, great marketing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She's remembered the tagline, too.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What else is in your bag?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, God. Okay, this is embarrassing, but I love an antihistamine, so. Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh, every day.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, every day. I feel like. I don't know, some wines, I do get funny reactions, too, so it just keeps it at bay.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Do you know what we call that? A Sevy Rashi. Do you get a little. Little ration?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

More like a red.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I'm just gonna say that because.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

That'S why we're aging.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know, I know. Mads doesn't like being grouped in our age bracket.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No, she doesn't. Representing the under 30s over here.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What else do I love? Can't go past a good lip liner.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So the Mecha Max one, I think it's the pout pencil.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Classy.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, yeah. Nice.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's my favorite. I honestly have to buy one every couple of months, though, because I always lose them. But I think they're like, $14.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, they're really affordable. The shade chic is really good if you're a little bit fairer, too, as, like, an everyday nerd. I really like that one. Okay. Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I never sharpened them, though. And I was talking to Zara off Mike before, and she was like, don't you carry a sharpener in your bag? And I said, no, the blunter, the better.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I'm with you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's hate.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Wow. I've discovered all these things I actually do carry in bag that have just, like, started popping into my head. I do have a shop. No. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Am you Mads? What are you loving in your handbag?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Honestly, I feel like you've just named my entire handbag. But I do have Listerine patches. I like the little dissolvable patches. Just if I have a small clutch as well. It's so pint sized and consolidated, which I love. Also nice and discreet. Don't have to chew. I'm also a sucker for chewing on a mint, so I'm like, it's just easier. But I'm also the girl you want to find in the bathroom because I've Got tampons, I've got band aids, I've got a pin, like whatever you need. If the dress comes undone, if the zipper breaks, like I've got you sorted. So I feel like that's me. And then like 42 lip liners and lip glosses floating at the bottom. The best kind of nudes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Honestly, I feel like you just set us up every time, every time.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I know you're asking for it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, so out of the handbag. Well, on the topic of handbag, actually, in September this year LVMH acquired a minority stake in French luxury leather goods brand Polene under its private equity brand El Catatin. Polene was established in 2016 by siblings Elsa Mattu and Antoine Motte. And it is known for its range of really reasonably priced, well made bags. I guess prefacing that in the scheme of luxury bags, it's a pretty reasonable price point. The news kind of set off this surge of interest in the brand one, because obviously LVMH is a massive conglomerate, but it caused lengthy lines outside of the store and their boutiques because people were worried that the prices may increase based on LVMH acquiring a stake in the. Did you guys see any of the tiktoks of these lines? Because they were insane.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think it was the store in Paris and it was around the corner. It is pretty standard that brands increase their prices annually.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm not specifically sure about lvmh, but I thought the average price increase can vary between 10 to like 25%. And I know a lot of the luxury. Luxury brands are notorious for doing this. Like Chanel and Hermes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Is there an industry average or do we know what LVMH would come in and we would expect them to increase the price? Or is this all just speculation?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's all just speculation. I guess there has been a history. There's no like standardized point. So some of the brands that have kind of been referenced when I was looking into this with Tiffany and Company, they definitely elevated Tiffany and Co's look and feel, but elevated the price points as well. And then when they acquired Fendi and Givenchy, those prices also went up as well. And I guess leather goods a lot of the time are the crown jewel in a lot of these brands. I mean, we look at this brand in particular, its whole brand is leather handbags. Right now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right now. I think what's interesting about this brand is that they've really dominated that middle market when it comes to luxury bags. And from my understanding, the quality is really good.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, well, there was the TikTok by a creator called Vulcan Yilmaas. I'm sure I'm butchering that, but the Instagram handle is much easier to say. Tanner dot Leatherstein on TikTok and basically pulls apart these handbags and showcases how well they're made and had only positive things to say about how well these handbags.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Have you seen these videos?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I loved watching this and I love how he calls it a purse autopsy.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's so satisfying, it's like deeply disturbing. Like watching him rip apart bags that cost thousands of dollars to purchase. But it's so satisfying at the end when he gives his review. So I love his account. Yeah, I believe Poland got quite a good review.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Speaking to Refinery29 about Polene's popular numero unbag, he said if it were a $2,000 B, wouldn't be surprised, but it was only 430 USD. Luxury brands created this impression that you need to spend thousands of dollars to get a good leather bag. But Pen proved you don't.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you like these bags? Do you own anything from the brand or.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I don't personally own anything, but a lot of people that I'm friends with do. And I always think it just looks like a really chic, timeless, everyday bag.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I feel like they look super chic, quite understated and there's like elements of trend but not being too trendy. Like I like how they play into that space but overarching. They still look like a really classic. And just playing back to what you were saying before about the pricing kind of going up averagely per year, we're kind of seeing it happening across the board now, like even for our brands, like local brands as well, I would say because of the cost of living crisis, but materials are surging. There's so many things at the moment that are actually seen inflation occur across the board and it has meant that a lot of the brands we actually import into Australia, those costs have gone up by sometimes even 50 to 100 bucks. So the fact that they can do these bags at this quality for that 430 price point on the numerous bag, I think it's amazing and I do think in future it'll be really interesting to see if maybe they start to expand on their price points rather than lift them all together because it would just kind of mean okay, we're a little bit more luxury now, but we're still attainable.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also think bring your community in by having a lower price point then gradually Build it over time once you've established that trust with them. I think from the TikTok that I saw, Vulcan estimated that it was maybe between 150 to $180 in materials and manufacturing for this bag that he actually reviewed. So if they're charging, you know, 430 USD, that's not a huge margin.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

No, that's super tight.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Super tight. So I actually think it's very strategic of them to build a community with a lower price point and then slowly over time increase it. Obviously, with the gift of hindsight, we could be sitting here in two years time and having a very different conversation. If they're charging $2,000 for the bag, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing because it will ostracize their original customer. But I think there's justification for a price increase and I do think it can be expected. I don't think it'll be huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I'm willing to bet that LVMH have acquired this brand one because of the tremendous popularity, but also because as you mentioned, right. It services that middle market and they are heavily invested in the luxury market. And I think given the cost of living crisis and where we are, it's not at all surprising that they're trying to diversify a little bit more into that middle market.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I just don't think there's a world where they're going to be up there with the likes of Chanel and D or charging the same sort of price for those bags. I just don't think. Yeah, the community that they've built would rise up. I also did say that this year they have expanded their categories into jewelry and they are looking, expanding into footwear. So I also think the LVMH investment that they've made into this brand, keep in mind it is a minority stake and we don't know what their intentions are. My assumption would be that they can obviously support those category expansions, but also open more bricks and mortars. So they have a few standalone stores, Paris, Seoul, Tokyo, New York and I believe the next door is opening in London. You obviously need capital to back those big moves. So I feel like a lot of the money could be going into that which we would also see come out in a price increase as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Naturally.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I like the brand though. I see a lot of their ads on TikTok.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I get served, get served sponsored ads.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I never saw it before, but we know we live under the rock. But now that I've started looking at them All I'm like, oh, I can actually see such commercial appeal to the brand and like seeing how they brought and what they're going to do next. And also just the branding and everything about it, I feel like speaks to quite a mixed demographic as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Do you know what's funny? I was looking at some of the celebrities who have actually been spotted wearing the brand. Emily in Paris. Obviously she's a fictional character, but that show has obviously created some big fashion moments. But she rocks a few of the bags I think in the early seasons. Kate Middleton. Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay. I see. Big fan of very chic.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I think that understated and often the royals like to go for those brands that appear to be that middle market to make them look and feel a bit more approachable.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

They're so relatable.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So funny that you say that because I actually saw a photo of Kate Middleton overnight where she was holding a Chanel bag and I gasped. I was like, I just don't feel like I've ever seen her with a designer bag.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't think I've ever seen them wear labels. Like they don't have that obvious branded label. Anyway, we're digressing, but I'm really excited to see where the brand goes and how this all ends up. I do think there will be a price increase over time, but I don't think it's going to be massive and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing because their margins aren't huge. So if they're producing good quality products, I think it's valid.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, moving along. So next we'll be talking about Victoria Beckham's eponymous label finally turning a profit after 17 years. But first let's hear a word from today's sponsor.

[Annabelle]

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[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yes. We've had some great luck on the designer front.

[Annabelle]

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[Annika Joshi Smith]

No kidding. And with all of these get togethers, events and gift, it's kind of the best time for it, right?

[Annabelle]

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[Annika Joshi Smith]

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[Annabelle]

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[Annika Joshi Smith]

So are you ready to sell Listed on ebay?

[Annabelle]

Thank you so much to ebay for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right guys, the headline is Victoria Beckham's eponymous label is turning a profit after 17 years. That is a long time. I'm going to start with that. But Victoria Beckham launched her brand in 2008 and since its launch it's accumulated 66 million pounds worth of losses over about 16 years, according to Metro UK. But earlier this month it was reported that the brand has finally started turning a profit 17 years after it launched. Now, Victoria told Harper's Bazaar, the company has been through so much over the last 17 years. Ups, downs, restructuring. It's been quite the journey. So finally to be able to say we're profitable is something I'm so proud of because it's not an easy industry and it's getting harder and harder to be able to say that I'm selling clothes right now. When you look at how luxury is struggling, Victoria credits the brand's change in fortune to the introduction of the beauty arm of the business, noting that a particular turning point came when the brand debuted a perfume in 2023, saying, When I created the fragrance, that's when I believe that we turn from a brand into a house. So the brand's growth has continued across 2023 and 2024 as it saw unprecedented demand for its beauty products and fragrances. In an article for Metro uk, which we'll talk a bit about today, writer Emily Bashforth says much of the success can perhaps be attributed to her presence on social media and genius marketing strategies with her Get Ready With Me videos and beauty tutorials forcing products off the shelves like hotcakes as everyone wants to replicate her classic look. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I'm a big Victoria Beckham fan.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Same.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I've loved her since the Spice Girls. Yes, I wanted to be Posh Spice.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So bad I would follow her to the gates of hell.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I have to just start off by saying I am a little biased when we're having this conversation, but I want to start with a pretty obvious question. Are you surprised to learn that Victoria's brand hasn't actually turned a profit for the last 17 years.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yes. That is such a long time. And I think as well, pre Covid when business was booming, especially across. I don't actually say booming for the luxury sector, but retail was having such a good time. And because she's been around for so long and has that element of celebrity behind her, I honestly thought that the business would have been in a far more profitable position. But then in saying that, I kind of think, has she been reinvesting the money back into the company to help scale and help fund all these other arms, the fashion shows, the runaways, all of these moments for the brand? So then that's kind of where my head went as well. But I'm just so happy for VB to finally turn a profit. I'm such a fan and I want her to be around forever and years more. How about you, Mads?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, 17 years is a long time. It is to not have turned a profit. If we were talking six or seven, I probably wouldn't have been surprised for all the reasons that you've mentioned. And I think she's really lucky that she's had deep pockets to continue to fuel these losses. And I think those losses probably would have been exemplified over recent years as they were building the beauty arm. Because you've got to invest years before something is live in the market, in your team and your product development while you're creating these products and the marketing strategies that you're putting behind it and then launching the brand and buying all of the product and the stock that then you're hoping customers will buy. But I think she is a genius for the beauty line. I think there's a graveyard of celebrity brands that have come before us. She is not one that I thought would be in there the minute that launched. And I think this is an incredible range of which she is an icon of both fashion and beauty. And I think it's the introduction of her leather goods, which, as we've just spoken about, traditionally have really good margins, and also this beauty arm that have just been the Runway to profitability and success for her.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it's interesting. I didn't find this to be super surprising, but that's because I feel like the media have been savage about the way they've covered her and her brand over the years. I have seen a lot of press, particularly in the uk, that draws a lot of attention to the fact that her brand has not been profitable.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Right.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. So it's really interesting to me that I've now seen this shift, and obviously she's talking about it, giving quotes, but she's always been really transparent about the fact that her brand hasn't been profitable. I really respect that honesty, and I also respect that she is just investing her own money into this business, albeit she is very, very, very wealthy. That goes without saying that she comes from a place of privilege where she can obviously put that money back into the business.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I think it's nice to see it turn a profit. I think the beauty element, for me is surprising to see it. I think that turnaround's quite quick.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Agree. I think she's done really well in a really competitive market.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Have you tried any of her products?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I'm such a sucker for a get ready with me. And I literally just added three of the eyeshadow, pencil, eye stick things to cut, and I'm so excited.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think that's what they're formerly called. Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay. Yeah. Next week, you'll see me with, like, a really beautiful smoky eye.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. No. One of my girlfriends bought me a eyeshadow palette from Victoria Beckham, like, oh, maybe like, four or five years ago. The pigment is really good, and it's also, like, the perfect compactor that you can just, like, throw in your bag. I think there's, like, three or four colors, so you can just build. I'm not great with makeup, but a little goes a long way. But I loved it. I haven't repurchased, but honestly, I don't wear a lot of eyeshadow. Like, for those of you who would have seen on TikTok, I've had the same palette for seven years, so, you know, eyeshadow is not my preferred.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm glad Joe's not telling you about it right now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I know. But, no, I really respect the beauty arm of her business, and it doesn't surprise me that that's what's driving a lot of the profit, particularly the fragrance. So many celebrities have built incredibly successful beauty brands, but. But also, some of them do not succeed, as we know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also want to talk about the fact that I think Victoria Beckham is having a bit of a PR moment.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Off the back of the Netflix series. Beckham. Did both of you watch this series?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I did. I just love them. Like, I'm obsessed with them.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I think this was a really, really pivotal moment for Victoria, to be honest. Ironically, because the whole series was mostly about David.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I think Victoria was really the shining light that came out of that series, and she just had so many amazing comedic moments. And she came across as super relatable.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, we all remember that one scene when she, you know, she grew up middle class.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Don't lie.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We always end up doing an accident to do one.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Have you got the T shirt?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't have the T shirt, but I think that was genius PR move for her team and for her to make a moment out of that and then obviously profit off it. I think the T shirt retailed for $225 and the slogan said, my dad had a Rolls voice. Like just such an iconic moment in the show that then she was able to capitalize on as a businesswoman. Like, she's obviously very smart, she's very savvy. But I think that series has done wonders for her career. I also think it shed a lot of light on how much scrutiny she actually experienced growing up. And when she was dating David, whilst he was obviously at the height of his career, but also going through the whole scandal that was the alleged affair. It was so full on. And, like, the media were just awful to her.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So they were vultures.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Terrible.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think as well, we forget she was an incredibly successful woman in her own right. She was part of the biggest pop group in the world during that time. Yeah. And I just feel like we just. I say wave. I definitely, you know, she was torn to absolute shreds by the British press.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I think I love this comeback from her. I loved her TV series. I don't know if you remember that. Like, I don't remember coming to la. They had. This isn't the first time they've had a TV show.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's right. I do remember this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But she did upload an Instagram story the other day saying at Netflix on ham to capture everything. So a few days ago, Harper's Bazaar actually honored her as Entrepreneur of the Year and it was really sweet. Her daughter actually intro'd her and go. So I was like, like clearly PMSing because I was like crying while I was watching this tick tock of it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So cute.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But she spoke on the red carpet about, you know, the brand only coming into profitability then and how proud she was and how hard she's worked. But she did also upload a little Instagram photo from the event and tag Netflix saying, stay tuned. They were on hand to capture everything. So I think we might be getting a Victoria spin off.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm not surprised by that. And I'm so excited here and so here for it.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I'm just so in awe of her hey, like everything she does, she's such a powerhouse, like, by herself. And then just to be Mrs. Beckham alone, I'm just like, I know.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So safe to say, three absolute super fans here.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Posh Spice all around.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All right, so from the Spice Girl lovers over to Spanish fast fashion chain Mango, who have announced that they are replacing some of their human models with AI generated avatars, what are our just immediate thoughts before I dissect this one?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I just. I don't know, I feel like AI is going to replace humans. And I'm like, please fuck off.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. Respectfully, you need to leave.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So their Chief Executive officer, Tony Ruiz, said they made the switch to AI to create advertising campaigns faster. And this is so that they can compete with the likes of H and M and Zara, and they're using it to streamline parts of their business. I think it's worth noting Zara and H and M have a significantly higher revenue than Mango does. So Zara's revenue so far this year in Europe alone is 22.54 billion pounds.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Wow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

While H&M sits at around 16.83 billion, mango's much, much lower at 1.28 billion pounds. I mean, it's a nice spot to be in to say that's a low revenue at 1.28. So their CEO Ruiz says that introducing AI models is about faster content creation. And I guess AI is driving this shift in the $2.5 trillion modeling industry. And Mango's not the first brand to do this. We've seen it from brands like Levi's, Louis Vuitton, Nike, who have all teamed up with AI modeling companies and have been using it for some of their content.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, I've been shaking my head a lot.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Rhea's sitting there, she's like, hold the mic back.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Look, my immediate thought is, I understand they're trying to keep up with this whole notion of streamlining their business and making it more efficient, but basically what that said to me is that you're just trying to push more product out there, get it out there quicker, which just feeds this vicious cycle of trends and over consumption. And that immediately does not sit well with me.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And it rides back into the fact that these are high street brands, these are brands that are mass produced, they are readily available, they are constantly pumping out newness. And it's like, how much of this do we need and how much targeted content do we also need thrown in our faces?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. What I don't love is that they're not real People, particularly when a lot of these brands aren't doing the best job in the space of diversity. I would prefer to see brands invest in real people, a diverse range of bodies, sizes, skin tones. It just feels a bit lazy, in my opinion.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And I think fashion is a form of self expression. What happens when you put artificial intelligence and avatars or whatnot into these roles where it's meant to be inspiring and it's meant to show human connection and emotions and realness and you don't get that. When we look back to models of like the 90s and the 80s, we were kind of in awe of all of these supermodels because of their aura, their Persona, who they actually were. Kate Moss is so iconic. Naomi Campbell people would actually look up to and be just so iconic.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's also what brands would want to tap into a lot of the personalities. So if you're removing the personal, how are you then creating a connection with people? The other point I want to make is that in this piece they speak a lot about it being innovative, what they're doing. And I just want to challenge that because I think innovation, in my opinion, also stems from creativity. And I don't see this necessarily as the most creative approach to campaigns.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I agree.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You're stripping back ideas.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And you're making it feel it's not ideas led, it's not creative, it's not dynamic and in my opinion that means it's not innovative. So yes, it might be more efficient and yes, it might be techie and, you know, the buzz thing. And I think one thing I always nod to is when we have these conversations around AI, it's like the whole conversation around NFTs, it was a similar sort of trend and theme. You know, Nike was one of the first brands to invest in NFTs. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't hear a lot about NFTs anymore. Yes, I'm not really the demographic, but I think brands can get excited and think like, oh, we have to jump on this because that's what's trending and that's what's really popular, but it might not necessarily be what the consumer actually wants. So I feel like in this instance I see it from the perspective of it being an efficiency point of view. Do I think that's a good enough reason? No, I feel like I'm leaning more towards investing in people when it comes to building campaigns and when it comes to selling products, I don't know. I could be the only one I've.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Challenged my own thinking because I was totally with you both coming in here and having read this article. The only way that I think AI could actually be used for good is on e commerce pages. If you could put in height and weight to see how a product would look ratio to you.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like I don't want to see AI models in campaigns. I want to see women who look like me, people who look like my friends. That's what I want to see. And I want to see real life. And that doesn't mean they need to be stripped of all their makeup and all of those things. That's okay. I love wearing mascara and an eyeliner too. But I think when I'm shopping it is challenging when everyone is like stereotypically brands are hiring women who are 5 10, 511 plus and are a certain dress size. And I am not 5 10, 511 plus and I am not a certain dress size. So I think if there was a way that AI could be used on e commerce sites where there's still a place for these models, real life models. But that tool could be used to help people navigate clothing. Not necessarily saying fast fashion, but just brands in general. I do think there is a place for it if there's something like that.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. So kind of like a hybrid model.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

And almost kind of like that into market will be kind of more the campaigns, more that, you know, original human connection that we kind of crave and want and then maybe like how we can make informed decisions through AI.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Okay, there we go. There's our sales pitch.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I want it as a backup. I don't want it as the main event.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, I still think it's lazy.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

We see both sides.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We see both sides. Okay, up next. Next we're actually exploring the fashion industry's long running love affair with smoking.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So God, give it to us. Right.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay. The headline is Fashion's enduring love of Smoking. Bit of background on this one. So there was a recent feature in WWD written by Hikmart Muhammad. He did a deep dive on fashion's love of smoking. Hikmat writes that in fashion, smoking is the one vice that's outlived all the others. And there's still a burning desire for it. I see what you did there. For the fashion crowd, many see a cigarette rather than a vape as a signal of shake. Tobacco, like the color black, has managed to stay in vogue despite all its health risks and dangers. He pointed to numerous examples throughout the decades. He spoke about Celine selling cigarette lighters and having a perfume that Smells like nicotine. He also referenced Kate Moss closing Louis Vuitton's 2011 show holding a cigarette, which emphasizes fashion's long running infatuation with smoking. Carolyn Mayer, psychologist and a fashion business consultant, also told WWD that for those in fashion and entertainment, smoking often holds a symbolic allure tied to aesthetic values of glamour, edginess, and sophistication. Okay, so what are your initial thoughts on this feature?

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I mean, smoking, like drinking, has always been very sexy and very glamorized. And not only just like the modeling industry and branding, but across so many different platforms, like, you know, movies and just culture in general.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think for me, I can't help but feel like in the last 18, 24 months, I've seen a real return of cigarettes. I think I've seen it out, I've seen it on social media. Charlie XCX has had the biggest moment. She's like an overt smoker. Yeah, we've seen the tabby's trend with the cigarette in between. I feel like there are certain brands of cigarettes, like Vogue Slims has kind of been glamorized as this sort of sexy, European chic, Parisian girl cigarette. I don't know, I can't help but feel like vape's had their big moment and then they've been demonized, rightfully so. And now it's almost like we've returned to the same demon in a different format.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I think particularly in pop culture, so, you know, film, television, fashion, there have always been cultural references to smoking. I don't think that's new news. Back in the day as well, often smoking was actually product placement for a lot of these brands. There are obviously very, very tight legislation and bans on advertising smoking. So those brands can't do that anymore. So it's interesting seeing smoking and the trend of smoking creep back up in fashion. And as this article states, it feels like it hasn't ever really gone away. And it's almost like it's never going to because it's almost immune. So it's an interesting one. I do want to talk about the fact that vapes just hasn't been able to infiltrate fashion because in theory, they're both bad in the sense of physically harmful to your body. In terms of why people smoke, they know that there are other emotional reasons as to why people smoke, or perhaps it's a form of stress relief. But I think vapes have definitely tried to infiltrate the fashion world. They just haven't been able to crack it. And I don't know if it's because it's that whole. The article talks about this. This. It's like that analog. I don't know. Or it's like this nod to some sort of nostalgia with smoking.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I mean, overall, we're seeing a nostalgia trend, though.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, true.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You even look at. I keep referencing cameras at the moment because everyone raced to get the best possible iPhone and best possible camera, and now everyone wants to go and get the camera they had in 2004. Or they're using a film camera. And I just feel like we're going back to this like, naughty's 90s grunge. And I feel like cigarettes are also part of that. But the article referencing it alongside the color black, I'm like, whoa. The color black is chic and timeless. And smoking is not. Because for every photo we might see of Kate Moss, who looks somewhat chic, holding a cigarette. That's an objective opinion, not a subjective one. There's also a photo of Ben Affleck looking very, very stressed and worse for wear outside, taking a big, deep breath with a cigarette, not looking so chic, you know, doesn't always look great.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. There's an Instagram account called sigfluencers. Beautiful. Have you seen this account?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay. So basically, it's an Instagram account that is dedicated to posting photos of celebrities smoking.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I think that's a really interesting cultural moment which we're seeing rise on social media is capturing celebrities smoking in real life, not even just in the context of the show or in a movie. I think there seems to be a bit of a resurgence of that appearing to be cool as well, which is probably driving it. I've noticed Addison Rae as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, okay.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So in her most recent film, A cigarette, you reckon?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, in her most recent video clip, she's smoking two cigarettes. Oh. Oh. I think she closes it out or opens it and she's got two cigarettes. I did just look at this account, and that was the image that came up. But, you know, what I found really interesting about this is young women who have broken into the industry and have the perception of being young and their demographic of who they're speaking to is quite young, may be turning to smoking as a way to then transcend that youth audience and appear to be cooler or a bit edgier and, you know, try and break away from that child star position. So for me, I feel like even Addison hanging out with Charlie XCX and that whole, like, brat summer vibes and also the smoking on socials, I think she's done a few interviews as well where she's like, I hate babes. Just smoke. And I'm like, what?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, like I love Dua Lipa. And I always see images of her smoking and I'm like, oh, not that precious voice.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. We're seeing smoking paraphernalia across so many brands. High end brands doing ashtrays, lighters, even ash inspired jewelry. It's totally having that cultural moment again.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it definitely is. I also am seeing it a lot in. When you're going to events. I'm finding that people doing the cigarettes on the trays and the serving platters and then everyone's got like the branded matches, which I actually, I quite like the branded match. I think the brand, because I use them for my candles at home.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I always pinch them from my restaurants.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That's fine. I think that's a.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They're complimentary. You're not pinching, you're taking what's yours.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. But I think it's a nice little take home and then, you know, use.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It to light a candle.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

A candle.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ideally a candle, not a cigarette.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But I think it's all connected.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

I actually saw a really chic wedding recently and they're going around handing out cigarettes on like the beautiful silver platters.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's what I saw.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So I think it's definitely having a cultural moment across a few areas of culture.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, now that we're having the conversations about celebrities smoking, I think one of the most, most well known and I guess prolific celebrities who smokes in television is obviously Carrie Bradshaw, Sarah Jessica Parker. I mean, that was probably one of the OG series where you really saw smoking integrated into the story. It also was a key plot line for one of the reasons why Aiden didn't want to date her.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I also think as well that's the perfect example of where it's been woven not only into television but fashion.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That show was. Was the pinnacle of fashion of that time and has transcended the time that it was live on air. Like we still reference outfits and moments now from that. I feel like. Yeah, I mean, we never saw Charlotte York lighting up a cigarette is all. I'll say.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, we did not. You obviously think you're Charlotte.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, no. Maybe three years ago. But I reckon I've got a bit of Samantha in me now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I think you do too.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But there's also like brands like as you mentioned, like YSL and Celine selling lighters. I feel like Cartier vintage Lighters are like a massive market and a lot of incredible and antique dealers and things like that are selling them as well now. And I'm like, oh, my God. I just feel like it's making a comeback and I don't know that it's one that needs to as a trend.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's so interesting because, like, despite all the negative aspects and consequences of smoking, it just feels like one of those vices that is just so normalized and like, obviously we've seen it everywhere. I wonder how much more we're going to start seeing it.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, no, I think that's what this piece was really eye opening. I was like, oh, this is definitely something that is garning a lot of conversation, a lot of noise. And I'm definitely noticing it myself as someone who consumes a lot.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I just think as well, we're living in this paradox universe right now in culture and on social media where, like we're watching Get Unready with Me and Get Ready With Me or Wake Up With Me and they're peeling off these sheet masks and the mouth guards and we spoke about sleep. Like, people are wearing aura rings and going to yoga and saunas and then they're like having a cigarette and drinking two bottles of wine. It's like, I don't know, there's this green juice culture on Sunday to make you feel better for what you did on Saturday.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

It's called balance. Ok. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All right. Well, on that note of balance, we are going to wrap up this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you very much for joining us. And Ray, thank you very much for being here with us today. And of course you, Annika Joshi Smith, who is always in the hot seat. And remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style-ishameless media.com or slide over into our DMS over at style underscore ish au please. No photos of you with a vape or cigarette, though. And we cannot forget to thank our lovely shameless media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emmerburg. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

See you guys. Thanks for having me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks for being with us.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Always a pleasure.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, we'll see you again next week.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Oh, yeah, I'm back next week.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Can't wait.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land.

[Annika Joshi Smith]

Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hey, guys, it's Annabelle here. Are you struggling this summer because all of your favorite shows are on break? Well, fear not, because our recently launched interview show Inherited is working right through the summer break. Yup, that means fresh interviews every single week. If you've not listened to an episode of Inherited, we ask our guests for the recipes, rules, relics and rituals that have shaped who they are today. My favorite interview so far was definitely with Lucy Jackson because of so many reasons, but mainly because of the way she opened up about heartbreak in all forms. Whether that's the aftermath of being cheated on, ending a 13 year relationship, or how situationship breakups are arguably the hardest. Here's a snippet.

[Lucy Jackson]

I was with my same boyfriend from like 17 to 31 and when we broke up, any bad things that happened after that with boys or situationships or whatever, I was so utterly shocked. I was just used to having a really great partner for years and years and years. So when things would happen I did not know that this is what people could do to each other. But I built up a resilience really quickly and then, yeah, then just got cheated on. I was kind of like, oh whatever.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Search Inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is all sorted.