Rhiannon Joyce (2:55)

Yeah, that's right. So I'm so excited because I'm actually interviewing Rachel Wilde, the founder of Booth Hair Care and the Breakout Hack, which was previously known as TBH Skincare. So the Breakout Hack has had an incredible few years. They're currently planning a huge expansion to the UK and the US and are credited as having innovative skincare ranges. Sproof, I would say, is their new sister business. And it's taking a really similar approach, but focusing more in the hair care business.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (3:23)

Yes, absolutely. Really focusing on that hair growth space too, which we know there's a lot of noise and buzz around at the moment. If you're on TikTok, you'll very likely have seen the brands for some of their viral moments. An example being the Gen Z Boss and mini skirt video which not only took TikTok feeds last year, but also ended up creating articles and thing pieces from the likes of Forbes, cnn, Glamour. To say it went global is an absolute understatement. So I'm really excited to get into moments like this as well as Boost launch campaign.

Rhiannon Joyce (3:56)

There's a lot, a lot for us to unpack with Rach. Just a heads up, we Shameless media have worked with the Breakout hack which was at the time known as TBH Skincare. But this interview isn't sponsored at all and I'm so excited to get into. So let's go. Hey guys, it's Rae here, co host of your fortnightly Friday episode of Stylish. And as you heard, I'm so excited to be joined by the wonderful Rachel Wilde. Rach, I feel like we have to acknowledge up front we've spent a little bit of time together over the past few years. I've had the pleasure of knowing you for a while, but to have you behind the mic is such an honor. I cannot stress how many people were in our DMs requesting us to interview you what? Yes, yes, we have some big TBH now. The breakout hack fans and boof fans. Not only am I excited for you to be here, but I just know our community is stoked.

Rachel Wilde (4:56)

Thanks for having me. I am beyond excited to be here. So, yeah, I'm going to dine out on that. That you had people in your DMs asking for this. Crazy.

Rhiannon Joyce (5:04)

No, it honestly was an overflow of requests and you are our first interview for our new fortnightly Friday episode. So it is such an honor to have you here. I obviously know a lot about you and your backstory, and I'm sure, as I said, a lot of our community members do, but I'm sure there are a portion of listeners out there who don't really know your story. So can you do me a favor and kick off with a bit of an elevator pitch of who you are and what you do?

Rachel Wilde (5:29)

Oh, sure. I suck at elevator pictures.

Rhiannon Joyce (5:31)

Everyone does.

Rachel Wilde (5:31)

Don't worry, will be long because it's. Yeah, it's. It's not short, but my background's in marketing. Studied marketing. I love marketing. I love brand building. I started out my career in medical devices. Not sexy at all. Very B2B, but kind of interesting, challenging. And yeah, that was essentially where I kicked off my career. Not once did I ever think, I will start my own business. Like, that was not the dream. My dream was one day I will make like a Super bowl ad for like a consumer good company. Yeah, that was like, we all had that dream. Yeah, like, that was what I wanted to do. But I was working in the medical space and I was exposed to how technologies sort of come about and how they then come to market. So if you go into a hospital, any product that is used on you or in the hospital has been sold in by someone. And often those technologies are created by these, like, medical research and development companies. And they patent them, do all the clinical research, but then they hand them off to these distribution companies that go in and sell them. So I sort of knew how all this worked. And then I came across technology being used in hospital and healthcare developed by a medical research development company. And they had like 50 global patents behind this tech. It was being used in infection control, wound care, but they realized that the same patent they were using actually had an application in skincare, specifically for breakouts. And I was 23 at the time, heard about this, was interested because I was a huge beauty consumer, but also had suffered with acne for so long. And the long and short of it was I actually ended up just asking so many questions about what was going on with this tech and this product. And because I had been exposed to how things worked in the industry, I ended up going and pitching for the licensing rights to that product alongside my mother who I co founded the business with and she's an accountant and financial analyst. So I did all of the ops and finance side of the business and I then took on the marketing side. We won the licensing agreement and then launched the business six months later and I quit my job like the next day.

Rhiannon Joyce (7:32)

Wow, that is quite a story and not one that is normal for a 23 year old.

Rachel Wilde (7:36)

No.

Rhiannon Joyce (7:36)

I would love to know a bit more about the dynamic between you and your mum launching the business at the age of 23. Now you've just said that your mum worked in accounting, so it feels like to me that you had very clear roles and responsibilities in the business. How did you maintain that dynamic?

Rachel Wilde (7:52)

Oh, it was very muddy. Like early on we, we'd started this business but you have an entire lifetime of a personal relationship first that you're not used to like working together. And I was 23, like very naive, very like bright eyed, bushy tailed, but never do it like had never done any of this really before. And neither of worked in beauty ever. Neither of us had started businesses ever. So we were all like just figuring it out together. But I think there was clear delineation in like what she was looking after and what I was looking after which helped because it wasn't like she was trying to weigh in on a lot of the branding and marketing decisions and I wasn't trying to weigh in on like the finance structure or the operations.

Rhiannon Joyce (8:32)

So you really, it was very much like stay in your lane or in.

Rachel Wilde (8:36)

Your part that it was. But there's definitely like there was then crossover probably like more so when we launched and then when you're in the thick of like a startup and you're burning money, you start weighing in on each other's areas because you're like what the hell are we going to do? Because it's high stress, high pressure. And so there was like that, that component of trying to work out through those stressful moments, like having that trust in one another to be like, okay, this is you and I'm just going to like let you do it.

Rhiannon Joyce (9:05)

You've spoken about some of those, I guess tumultuous years in the past. I have listened to a podcast before where you actually spoke about the earlier and the many moments you thought the business was going to burn through cash and not survive. And you just briefly touched on that. Can you go a bit deeper on that?

Rachel Wilde (9:20)

Yeah, we raised money when we started. I thought it was so much money, we have so much cash. We did not. I mean we had enough. So we launched with about 250,000 and 120,000 of that was a bank loan that we basically maxed out on stock straight away and we were personally guaranteeing.

Rhiannon Joyce (9:40)

So I'm sitting here wide eyed.

Rachel Wilde (9:42)

Yeah, like you've got. I didn't have anything to guarantee it with. I was like, yes, I will guarantee this loan but what are you going to take off me? Nothing of assets or anything. Whereas mum had property or, you know, other things. So she was exposed then. Right. She's also at a later stage of her career. That's a lot of pressure to be put under when you're then like, oh well. And also for me I was like, I'm going to have to declare bankruptcy and we'll never be able to take out a loan again. So you have this money, you put it to stock, you put it to marketing, you start getting revenue through the door. It's great. Like you have these wins where you can see it's working but it costs so much money to run a business like marketing, especially product based business because you putting all of the money into product as well. So it was just that cash flow cycle that was extremely stressful. So you're sitting there looking at the forecast, the forecasted revenue and the forecasted outgoings and you can see you're burning through cash. And we're looking at the profit and loss every month and it's like we're getting great traction but it's still costing us more than what we're making. So we're losing money every month and then you've only got a certain Runway until you are out of money. And then what? It's like you're maxed out the loan, you've burnt through all of the money that you raised with friends and family. Are we going to stop dipping in our own savings? But then we're not really paying ourselves so like where's that coming from? Are we going to have to raise more money with other people? And then yeah, you just get into that really precarious territory of like, okay, we've got to take on more debt like Shopify loans, PayPal loans. We did it all.

Rhiannon Joyce (11:10)

It sounds, as I said before, quite tumultuous. What emotions were you feeling during this time?

Rachel Wilde (11:15)

The most intense stress I've ever, ever felt. Yeah. Oh, and I think it is quite lonely. Like, people don't know that type of pressure in their everyday jobs, especially at that age. Yeah. And so, you know, also being on the marketing side, we were all in it together and, like, it wasn't, like, I wasn't supported, but you are the one that's kind of responsible for making sure the sales come in. And so it's a lot of pressure to be under, to be like, yeah, I know what I'm doing at 23, and I can say that if I. I do run this marketing activity, it's going to turn on this revenue. Like, I didn't know any of that. So sometimes you're going to do things and then they don't work out as planned. And if you've chosen to invest money in that area and it doesn't work well, the Runway that you've had planned, you've just burnt through even faster. So it's that type of, like, every decision has, like, a huge consequence, so you can't afford to misstep. And if you do, it hurts. So I think that emotion was like, just deep pain of pressure, stress, and like, oh, my gosh, what are we gonna do? Like, just that helplessness.

Rhiannon Joyce (12:17)

Did you have a mentor guiding you at the time?

Rachel Wilde (12:19)

No.

Rhiannon Joyce (12:20)

My God, yes.

Rachel Wilde (12:21)

I didn't have anyone that was mentoring me. There's probably a mistake that I made, like, early on is not building a network fast enough around me. I did have, like, I did online courses and, like, you know, had resources that I was investing my time into. But, yeah, not that person that even if it was going to be like, another founder that was in a similar stage to me would have probably been helpful. But it was Covid when we launched. And yeah, there was. I just didn't really have that network. I was really lucky to find a few mentors actually through, like, random calls that I had with people along the way. And they did actually end up really helping me, like, see through those periods.

Rhiannon Joyce (12:58)

What turned it around.

Rachel Wilde (13:00)

A viral TikTok genuinely.

Rhiannon Joyce (13:03)

Okay, tell us about this moment.

Rachel Wilde (13:04)

So we had been building, like, I think through all of this pain and what felt like maybe a lot of failures. We had been consistently building a very strong community. And even if it felt really small, it held a lot of value. And so the business survived because it had a really strong repeat customer base who supported us even when we didn't have any money to market. You know, like, they were coming back and repeat buying. And that revenue was just propping up the business to get it through to the next stage. But what really kicked it into another gear was a viral TikTok. So we weren't really posting on TikTok at all. I didn't use my personal TikTok at all. I was just basically scrolling, but I would never post. And one day I got sent a radio segment that Abby Chatfield had mentioned the product on radio. And I'm pretty sure the idea probably came from. I had a casual marketing coordinator at the time who sent me the episode because she got it from a friend and she was like, you should listen to this. Record your reaction. And then she went home and. And I was in like our little co working space and I got in the car and I was like, should I listen to this and record my reaction? So I was like, whatever, propped up the phone and then listen, plate, press play, listen to it. I didn't really react. Like I watched that video back and like my face is like, I'm not really reacting, I'm just listening. And then I'm like, well, what the hell when she mentions it. And I edited it sitting in my car in the car park, posted it on my TikTok, closed the app, drove home, didn't open the app again that day. I woke up in the morning and I obviously had my Shopify notifications on back then. And I woke up to all these orders coming through and I was like, hundreds. Like, it was crazy. I was like, where has this come from? What's going on? And then I opened my Tick Tock and that video was over a hundred thousand views. But I've had videos go viral that don't convert like that. Like it was crazy how that video went straight through to purchase so quickly for those customers?

Rhiannon Joyce (15:00)

What do you think it was about that specific video that then translated to sales? Now that you've had so many viral moments, what do you think it was in that video?

Rachel Wilde (15:08)

Well, it was product focused, but it was coming from another source. So you had like that social proofing of someone else who everyone knew recommend it, who has high trust with their audience. But then you've got. And I actually think we're seeing it now, but you've got a nobody organically reacting, like in their.

Rhiannon Joyce (15:27)

Are you pointing to yourself as the nobody?

Rachel Wilde (15:29)

Yeah, yeah, because that is what. Like, I didn't have a following. It was my fourth ever video I posted on Tick Tock. Like everything else had gotten probably under 400 views. Like nobody. Right. And I actually think there's so much influence in that because if you seeing it come from like an everyday person, you Believe it so much more. So it was like all this layered social proof that then people were like, oh, well, obviously I'm going to try.

Rhiannon Joyce (15:54)

This because it feels genuine.

Rachel Wilde (15:55)

Yes.

Rhiannon Joyce (15:56)

I also think having Abby, to your point, who has a really engaging community advocating for your brand in a way that wasn't paid. Now, what you've just described, that experience of being in your car and recording that video at that time of tick tock. What year was it? Can I confirm?

Rachel Wilde (16:09)

2022.

Rhiannon Joyce (16:10)

Okay, 2022. That was a foreign concept.

Rachel Wilde (16:12)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (16:13)

We see a lot of reaction videos now. When we see people organically referencing products, we see it ourselves on stylish. You know, we love when creators stitch our videos and, you know, brands. When we mentioned them in one of our swap segments, it is so exciting. It's definitely more common nowadays than what it was back then. So I think that authenticity piece paired with the advocacy of Abby sounds like it was the perfect formula for success, 100%. I haven't heard you talk about this in the past, so this is really interesting to me, and I really appreciate you sharing that story because a lot of people don't like to share the hard stuff. You get on a podcast and you share what's great and all the glossy insights into a business and how it works well, but there are really tumultuous times and. And it can be really difficult to come out of that, particularly at your age. So that is no small feat. You should be really proud.

Rachel Wilde (16:57)

Thanks. The majority of it is tumultuous. So, like, there's been very few people that I've watched start businesses that just don't go through any of that. And I think there's a misconception because you watch people start businesses, but you're watching from, like, their third or fourth year on, and people don't realize there's, like, this huge period unless you've done it before. There's a massive, like, period up front that is relentless grunt work and no money. So people are like, I'm gonna start a business and make money. You won't make any money. You're gonna make yourself poor. Like, you got. You know what I mean, though? Yeah. And so, yeah, I think people don't see that side a lot, but it's very real and it's in most businesses.

Rhiannon Joyce (17:35)

All right, guys. Next we're going to hear more about how Rachel's role changed post merger. But that will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Now.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (17:46)

Re. As you know, I'm quite a few months into my freelance Era, which is just crazy to say.

Rhiannon Joyce (17:51)

Oh, it's so good, Mads, we spoke about this lot when you first went out on your own and you were running through all of the possible scenarios.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (17:57)

Oh, absolutely. I think it's so normal for us to worry about the what ifs, like what if I can't land clients or what if it doesn't work out. I get it because some days I feel like I'm killing it and other days I'm back daydreaming about my nine till five.

Rhiannon Joyce (18:11)

No, I would say you're definitely killing it. I know so many of our listeners dream of starting a business. So a few months in, what advice do you have?

Madison Sullivan Thorpe (18:18)

Oh, she has some learnings. There are the obvious things like start before you feel ready and always put your tasks tax aside. But I'd say my big tip is that you don't have to do it alone. There is so much support to help you on your way.

Rhiannon Joyce (18:32)

Yes, I love that. And today's sponsor, Anz Business Start Right is a great example of that for sure.

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Rhiannon Joyce (18:54)

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Madison Sullivan Thorpe (19:13)

Thank you so much to Anz for making this episode of Stylish possible.

Rhiannon Joyce (19:22)

Now I want to talk about 2023. So tbh merged with Bruce Lab to form York Street Brands. Can you tell me what that means and how it changed the trajectory of the business?

Rachel Wilde (19:32)

Yes, there was a lot of things that happened all around the same time. So we were trying to raise more money to support us going into retail. And so we were having early stage conversations with Priceline. We went viral on TikTok at the exact same time and then noticing a theme here. Yeah, I don't know what happened in like the late end of 2022, but it was wild. And so all these things were happening. And we'd been pitching to private equity, though, from probably the start of the year. I'm talking like hundreds of pictures. In fact, I think when I saw you in Melbourne, I remember this. That's what I was down here doing.

Rhiannon Joyce (20:08)

We were at a cafe in Cremorne and I remember explicitly that you, you were telling me how nervous you were because you were presenting to a boardroom mostly of men. And this is one of the first times you were having these conversations genuinely, look how far we've come.

Rachel Wilde (20:20)

Oh my gosh. Crazy. So I just had conversation after conversation with every investment fund, private equity fund I could get in front of. And the majority would be like interested enough to like have multiple conversations or go through some level of diligence. But then it was like, ah, get to this stage and then we'll chat. And it's like, in order to get to that stage, I'm gonna need money. Yeah. And I think that's actually a very common problem that founders face. So people won't back them until they've like got proof in a certain revenue run rate. But in order to get to that revenue run rate, they're going to need money. And so yeah, we were talking to all these private equity companies and then eventually we spoke with one and they said, we've actually already invested in a skincare consumer goods company, but we think you should talk to them because you guys have really complementary skill sets. And so we were like, sure, went and spoke with these founders who, who were Boost Lab. And then yeah, just realized like on paper it looked really strong in terms of the skill sets that we could all bring to the table. They didn't have a like CFO or experienced finance person. They didn't have brand building or marketing expertise in their business. But they had like really strong retail experience. They had international, like sort of export experience and they were really good at raising money, which we weren't because we didn't have any track record and we sort of never done it before. And so also we just liked them. Like, we're like, we get on how.

Rhiannon Joyce (21:43)

Important is it that you work with good people? Like all of those things that you've just shared, very complimentary skill sets and alignment. But at the end of the day, working with good people is such a priority. And I think people really underestimate that when you're going into business with people.

Rachel Wilde (21:57)

Yeah, like they, you have to be value aligned, like non negotiable, like. And actually, you know what? We didn't deep dive enough into that. We got lucky. And mergers are notoriously risky because of that because you're bringing two businesses together and you just don't know whether you're going to operate well together. It's been a match made in heaven, which is so nice. So Boost Lab and TBH came together and created York Street Brands. So all the founders of those businesses co founded York Street Brands and then we all assumed new roles in the company and also got backed by a new raise with private equity. So we I think raised 5 million.

Rhiannon Joyce (22:34)

Wow.

Rachel Wilde (22:34)

To back that joining of hands and to give the resourcing to TBH that we were looking for to launch into retail, have a proper marketing budget, et cetera. So my role went from being very like in the weeds as a founder to then going into a CMO role across two brands and then starting to build a team.

Rhiannon Joyce (22:51)

What's been really apparent to me is your ability to use social media to bring greater awareness and sales for your brands. Is social media the main driver for your business when it comes to connecting with your consumer?

Rachel Wilde (23:02)

100%. And I think I use social media as like this testing ground because I think what works, it's almost like it gives you signals as to like, are people interested in this? Do they care about it, do they engage with it? I think a lot of people go to paid channels, for example, like they want to turn on meta ads and TikTok ads or they want to do this. And two key barometers in the business for me are will media write about it and do people like engage with it on social? Because they're two key indicators that like one, you have something worth writing about, it's newsworthy, it's like worth so much telling a story about it. So it shows you that it's different enough in market to be interesting. And then secondly, do people want to like engage with you on social media? I think that's like the heartbeat. If you can get that going. It's actually really hard to like find that. But if that's working then when you turn on paid channels and all the rest, they hum, they work hard and yeah, your efficiency just goes through the roof. But if you start with that and haven't done like the groundwork which I think is in those like more earned channels, then it I think yeah, you're not really setting yourself up for success. You might have a quick win but it'll be fleeting.

Rhiannon Joyce (24:15)

So it feels like a two pronged approach. Can I go a bit deeper on the comment around being newsworthy and having a lot of presence in publications? I would say that your brands feature in a lot of the major media outlets, news.com, daily Mail, they're getting serious eyeballs. Did you know that they were going to make those headlines or was it it very much leaning on your PR agency to be the ones who are opening doors?

Rachel Wilde (24:38)

Oh, I think a mix of both. So you absolutely have to have an expert there. Like, I cannot pitch for media myself. I would have no idea what I was doing. And you have to have those relationships and you have to know that industry inside out to really, I think, be able to operate well in it. So having that person there, like Jessie, I've worked with her for four years now. She's incredible.

Rhiannon Joyce (24:58)

And is Jessie internal or external?

Rachel Wilde (25:00)

External, yeah. She's got an agency and they're the best, particularly in beauty. So I've always worked with her, but also she's not going to be able to pull something out of thin air. So it's like giving them the material. And I think where we started with that was the story around how we came across the tech and what the tech was in the products, because it was so different and it had a lot to it, like a lot of meat to that story in terms of.

Rhiannon Joyce (25:25)

Feels sticky.

Rachel Wilde (25:26)

Yeah. So there was a lot to sort of write about in a way where there was. And there's multiple components. It's like, it's local, it's Aussie, it's, you know, a young female who's been through the problem. But then it's also this tech and like, the way it was licensed was very different to something else in market. So we had like this story that I think in the early days, that's what we leaned on to get that media coverage. And I think a lot of people would consider maybe that, like, media is not necessarily super important because they go, well, are my customers reading, like these magazines or whatever? But that credibility that you get from being in those, like, earned media outlets and on the earned side is just crazy. Like, I think it's such important part of business and yeah, it's something that I've always focused on with all of the brands is getting that. But then we carry that through everything. So now if something happens. And I remember this was a lesson I actually learned from Jesse throughout the whole business was. And it happened when the video went viral on TikTok. This one that I'm talking about in August of 2022, and I remember so distinct, she picks up the phone and she's like. Because I started talking on my TikTok about, oh, this is blown up, or whatever. And she called me and she's like, what happened? What's going on? What happened? Like, what do you mean? And she's like, you need to tell me this. She's like, this is like a story. And I was like, oh, okay. And then she. Yeah, so she was able to, like, spot these opportunities because of the stuff that we were doing. So we're doing things all the time that are fun, newsworthy, like, different. But then she's there with her media landscape all the time being like, right, I'm taking that to media, or here's an opportunity for earned. And it's made us also think differently. So then when we're planning organic moments, we'll say, well, does this have media leverage? Like, you gotta think smart because then all your work just works harder for you. It goes well on organic, it generates an earned media story. And that earned media story can be leveraged back as content. And it's like, yeah, you're looking at.

Rhiannon Joyce (27:23)

It from a bird's eye perspective now, whereas before, you're looking at it in a linear X equals Y. You can see that even in the way that you're talking to me. Obviously, this is a podcast, so people can't see it, but there's a lot of animation and excitement when you're talking about this. And clearly you really respect Jesse, which, yeah, you can't underestimate the value of having really good people around you as well, and the fact that as a founder, you've acknowledged how much having that relationship has been integral to the success, but also that element of traditional media and helping with that earned space. Now I want to focus on the social as the second touch point that we're looking at here in this two pronged approach. I would love to know, when do you know to jump on a trend at the right time? It's not easy. How did you learn to do this?

Rachel Wilde (28:05)

You don't. Trial and error. And I think that's something that a lot of people maybe underestimate is the amount you're going to have to fail on social media before you, like, get a win.

Rhiannon Joyce (28:17)

You give yourself the ick.

Rachel Wilde (28:19)

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, you should cringe. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, if you're not doing that, then you're not moving fast enough. It's always. It's even in terms of a business, like, don't wait for it to be perfect to launch it, otherwise you're literally going to be too late or it'll never see the light of day if you don't look back and cringe at your earlier work then, yeah, you didn't launch it soon enough. And it's very similar with social. I would go back to my videos six months ago and be like, what was that? But I was posting, I was getting somewhere and it's like practice. You won't end up being good at it if you are not putting yourself out there and actually just doing the thing over and over again and also doing the thing in public to get the feedback. Like it's the greatest feedback loop you can get. Is like, is this working? Is it not? Did people like it? Like, why? They'll tell you in the comments, you know, like you can, you can get so much from that and then you iterate on that and it makes you better. And so yeah, I. Social media, like, how do you know which trend to jump on? Like, you just have to try lots of different things in my opinion.

Rhiannon Joyce (29:18)

I want to talk about the Gen Z boss in a mini. I feel like you knew this was probably coming. But what I want to understand is we've all seen the video, we all saw the backlash and a lot of the commentary that came with it. What I was really fascinated with in real life, really was impressed by, to be honest, was that you took this viral moment and you turned it into a product. Can you tell us about that decision and how you came to the idea to turn it into its own bundle that you then sold?

Rachel Wilde (29:43)

Yeah, I mean, I would say the whole team is like quite resilient and creative in that way where they do think like bold and they're encouraged to take risks, like day to day, like calculated risks. And so when all of that was unfolding, the general energy in the room was like, ha ha, like, let's keep going, let's push this. Yeah. And I think that because a lot of the commentary that we were getting wasn't coming from our customers. So it was like, okay, well we're kind of pissing off the right people. Like we never, we never wanted to appeal to this group in America, you know, of men. And so it's like, okay, whatever. Like, let's just keep going in saying that it was a crazy time and like if I was to actually dive into the detail, there was a lot that went on behind the scenes and it was really important, important throughout that time that there was a balance of number one priority was support the team that was number one that was going to come before any commercial gain or business move or anything like that. Like, cannot stress that enough. But then it was also, how do we get a win out of this because that's what they deserve. Like, they don't deserve to be put through this. So how do we rewrite the narrative here to actually, like, one, start a really important conversation, but two, show people that you don't, like, have to back down. I just didn't want to meet this with, like, silence, which for me was like, permission. It was like, absolutely not. I'm. That's not in my nature. If I feel strongly about something, it's like you can, like, see it through and like, stand on business, like, do your thing. And if you believe in something really strongly, like, hold that belief. And we weren't like, you know, it would have been different had we done something really offensive or harmful. Like it was an innocent TikTok standing around doing a trend. So, yeah, I think from that moment we went, okay, okay, how do we say our piece which was starting this conversation around. Why do we have this, like, reaction to women in the workforce doing these things? Let's unpack that and start that conversation. Because it was quite an important one to be had also on behalf of the team because they didn't do anything wrong. So they. I wanted to also establish for them, like, it's not you. This is something that's wrong with the world. Like, do you know what I mean?

Rhiannon Joyce (31:53)

It's not a you problem.

Rachel Wilde (31:53)

It's not a you problem. You have nothing to do, feel bad about or like it was your fault or you warranted this in some way because you just didn't. So for me, that was really important to establish. And then secondly, yeah, like, how do we have fun with this? Because that's the nature of, like, what we, you know, we love our jobs, we're here to have fun, we want to be bold and yeah. Stand up for what we believe in. So we turned it into a bundle. And that wasn't what. That wasn't my idea. That was the team's idea. Genius.

Rhiannon Joyce (32:19)

Genius.

Rachel Wilde (32:20)

So they created the Gen Z boss in a mini bundle. Bundle. And. Yeah. And then ran with it and use the eyeballs to actually find a new community and yet convert them into the brand. And that's what I will say is whilst we did get this enormous, like, huge, huge amount of backlash, we equally got this community that showed up for us and went to bat for us in that time as well. So it actually strengthened the community, which was amazing.

Rhiannon Joyce (32:45)

Okay, I want to talk about Boof.

Rachel Wilde (32:47)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (32:48)

Your most recently launched brand. Super exciting. And congratulations.

Rachel Wilde (32:52)

Thank you.

Rhiannon Joyce (32:53)

Skincare to hair care. It's not a regular transition what motivated it for you?

Rachel Wilde (32:57)

Again, it wasn't planned. There's a theme, guys, very similar to TBH because it was a patented tech.

Rhiannon Joyce (33:04)

Yes.

Rachel Wilde (33:05)

Not one that we came across, actually one that came to us. So they saw this company that owned this incredible hair tech out of Japan. It came out of university study from a group of hair microbiologists. They owned this tech, had all these clinical results behind it, was really impressive, but had sort of a challenge of where is the customer? How do we reach the customer, how do we connect with the customer and actually turn this into like a brand and something that sells? Because you can have an amazing tech and amazing science that never sees the light of day. If you don't understand a customer, what's going to motivate them to buy where they're shopping, how they're becoming aware of products, what influences them, like all these things. And they'd seen what we were doing in the skincare space with TBH and Boost Lab and they could see our ability to nurture these communities in quite niche pockets and drive the same sort of growth that you would see out of big conglomerates with big budgets for just not a fraction of the marketing spend. And so they came to us and said, look, we've got this tech. Are you interested in partnering? This is, you know, everything it can do. And I was like, oh, this is really interesting. Really impressed by the clinicals. Genetically I have thin hair. Then I damaged it so badly, like with bleach and all sorts through high school. Then it got so thin that I put tape in extensions in. Then I would. Then I realized the tape extensions weren't very good for me. Then I would buy clip in extensions and get the hairdressers to cut them to the length of my hair. And every day in the office I would wear clip in extensions in my hair. So my hair was something that I was always like hyper conscious of. And so when I heard about the products, I was like, oh, interesting because I'd used quite a few growth products and like not really seen that much.

Rhiannon Joyce (34:47)

It's a pretty well established market.

Rachel Wilde (34:49)

Yeah, yeah, it is. As a category, like it was already there. And so I took the products, I took these samples away and was using them like it's a. The tonic, you know, I was popping that my scalp every day and then I was using this shampoo conditioner. I didn't noticeably say like, wow, within like the first 30 days I'd noticed anything. Two months later though, I was getting my hair done by my regular hair and makeup artist. For an event and she picked up my hair and she was ready to put extensions in it cuz I always wore extensions in my my hair. And she was like, you're gonna need more extension pieces. She's like, what's happened to your hair? It's so much thicker. And I was like, is it like I didn't notice? And then I went to my hairdresser another two months later. So four months after using the products, my hairdresser said, I'm gonna have to extend your foil booking because you've got new hair. And like, it's going to take me so much longer to foil your hair this time. Like, this is goals, what's happening? And I was like, like, okay, this product is starting to work. And then like probably another two months later. So six months after using these products, my friends started commenting like, whoa, what's happening with your hair? Do you have extensions in? They would say that and I'd be like, I actually don't. And so I actually went back. We hadn't really like spoken with this company again. And I went to Craig, our CEO and I was like, this product is insane and we have to do something with this. And it's not in one of the other brands. Like, it is a new brand. And he was like, oh, that's going to cost so much money, blah, blah, blah. I was like, we have to do it. Like, I just know so many customers that are going to like, absolutely love this. It's just so different to anything else I had used. So yeah, that's really where it was born. So it wasn't a plan.

Rhiannon Joyce (36:31)

Both of these experiences, when you've launched these brands have come from your own personal experience with the product or your own challenge. I am loyal to a slick back bun, so I really need to start embracing seeing this product because I feel the hair loss even, you know, as someone who wears their hair back all the time, massive problem. The first thing my hairdresser always says to me, she's like, you need to stop wearing your slick back. And I'm trying really hard. But you know, there's also that angle of postpartum which you speak about a lot in your messaging. And obviously you've aligned with Indy Clinton for as originally when you first launched the product as a brand ambassador.

Rachel Wilde (37:09)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (37:10)

Can you tell me why you wanted to approach Indie Flavors for this brand?

Rachel Wilde (37:14)

Yeah. Well, whenever we're looking at who to partner with, it's who we think genuinely has firsthand experience with what the customer's gonna be experiencing and therefore buy this product for. So unless they have that, you know, tangible, like, experience firsthand with the product, they just couldn't endorse it, in my opinion. And so Indy is someone who has had three kids, obviously being through postpartum hair loss, but actually long term has always had, like quite thin hair. She's got a very engaged community who trust her recommendations. And so when we were looking at Australia and like, who to partner with to get the biggest bang on launch, she was someone who had both, like, the product fit and the level of engagement that we were looking for and trust. And so. But also, Indy is someone that I, I really love the way in which, which she doesn't promote in certain, like, in a certain way. She's very, like, chaotic and very organic.

Rhiannon Joyce (38:13)

It's not a traditional influencer piece to camera. Hey, guys, how are you? She's got a really unique energy and authenticity.

Rachel Wilde (38:20)

Yeah. And I think that married up really well with our team energy and actually like how we function behind the scenes, which is quite like, chaotic, loose, like, you know, we like to take risks or do bold things and that doesn't necessarily gel super well with like every single influencer or content creator. So I think there was a lot of, like, synergy in between the teams as well in terms of, like, her and us. And so, yeah, we approached her and just, I told her all about the clinicals and like, basically showed her through the science of the product. But in true indie fashion, like, she answered the phone the first time we had this call and she was like, in the car and like, the kids were in the back. She's like, sorry. And I was like, okay, we're getting like the live time, you know, indie. She's exactly the same as what she shows up as online pretty much. And so, yeah, talked her through the science and the products and she was interested and she was like, yeah, I've always had this problem myself. And she was like, yeah, like, let's keep chatting. But the most important component for me was you have to try these products. You have to love them. You have to experience what I experienced. Because if you don't, then you're not going to be able to like, do that job of in like, you know, advocate it.

Rhiannon Joyce (39:29)

No.

Rachel Wilde (39:29)

And she's very genuine in that way where, like, she probably wouldn't do it justice if she didn't really, like, see that person result. So I went to lunch with her and drilled into her, like, indy, this is what you have to do, like this product at this time, like, you know, and we need you to be doing it every day. And you absolutely have to be logging, like, your results. So we would make her submit, submit, like, her. Her weekly, like, updates, so that we knew, like, she was, you know, on track using them and we could track how she was experiencing them also through that process, she got to know the team and how we functioned. And she loved and she was like, I want to be a part of this. So it was actually just like the marrying of these two crazy worlds that came together. And it was like the perfect synergy. It was really nice.

Rhiannon Joyce (40:16)

So what you're talking about here is that key moment where indies identified, hey, I don't just want to be an ambassador, I want to be a shareholder. Can you tell me more about that conversation and how you've ended up where you are today as partners?

Rachel Wilde (40:28)

Yeah. So we had initially said, okay, look, come on board as an ambassador. And then she came into the office for the first time and had spent a day with the team where we were talking about the launch. And, you know, when we partner with an ambassador, like, even if it's just an ambassador, we get them in the building. So it's like, okay, how do you want to launch it? Like, we're coming up with these things hand in hand together because it was that level of ambassadorship. And she spent the one day with the team, whole day, like nine to five in the office. And she's never had a corporate job in her life, so she was like, coming in, she like. And she didn't even have of a lot, and she was like, holding other people's laptops, just like, cosplaying basically for the day. And what she was able to, like, witness in the office, she loved. And I think she actually found almost like a little place of belonging, like, in the team and in being involved in that capacity and also being able to, like, be across that level of like, the partnership. And so we left that day and we were walking out of the building and she's like saying to me, like, I really want to be involved, but. But, like, in a much bigger way. And she's like, would you ever consider, like, me coming in to the business? And I was like, yeah, course. Like, we really loved working with her. And I was like, obviously that's my goal is for someone to be that, like, involved and believe that much in the products that they're willing to, you know, come in as a partner and invest in the business.

Rhiannon Joyce (41:54)

So this reminds me of a Diary of a CEO episode. Are you a fan of Stephen? I am so he interviewed Emma Greed, who is the co founder of Skims and Good America.

Rachel Wilde (42:05)

Yeah, I haven't listened to that episode. I listened to her on another podcast though.

Rhiannon Joyce (42:08)

I highly recommend listening to this episode because what you've just presented to me is this concept of brands moving into a new space of influencer marketing where they're moving away from these traditional influencer arrangements, ambassadorships and moving into this space of exchanging equity. Yeah, it's a huge trend in the us. This is actually the foundation of what Emma talked about in the podcast with Steven Steven and was the idea that she put forward to Kris Jenner for Good American.

Rachel Wilde (42:34)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (42:35)

And then Skims and it's obviously paid off exponentially. Skims is valued at close to 4 billion and what I'm noticing in the influence and the media landscape is this started a few years ago but is now becoming more of a popular trend. We're also seeing with the likes of Alex, Earl and Poppy and that allegedly she, you know, made serious bank off that arrangement. What I would love to understand from your perspective is do you think this is the future of influencer marketing? We're going to see more of this in the Australian market?

Rachel Wilde (43:05)

I think so. I honestly think it depends on the influencer like and the, and the brand like there's got to be because like we said before, if you're going to go into business with someone like you're genuinely going into business with them so you have to be so aligned with them as well. And I think, I think this is an amazing way for startups in Australia, Australia to thrive when they don't have the money to invest into like ambassadorship. So what I would love to see is that this results in like big booms for smaller scale startups and like greater innovation just in general in Australia which means more jobs and all these things. And I think influencers have such a key role to play, I think but it does really come down to like what influence on what brand and that like genuine like I, I hope that it happens in that like genuine way of wanting to build together similar to how founders would come together, like co founders, because you both have like the same passion or like mission and values. Values like for what you want that company or business to be. Yes, I would say I reckon it will become more and more of a trend and I think it's great because I think influencers have a lot to offer and I think that it's great that they have this opportunity to make smart business moves and, and get access to this. And likewise, hopefully that means smaller businesses will get access to things that they weren't able to. So you sort of got these like mutually beneficial things going on. But a lot of the times I think for influencers as well, we've seen a lot of influencers start brands.

Rhiannon Joyce (44:38)

Yes.

Rachel Wilde (44:39)

And actually very few have like that longevity and like real ability to scale into big like long standing brands. And this is where I think you got, you need that mix of skill set.

Rhiannon Joyce (44:52)

Yes.

Rachel Wilde (44:52)

Because you need people internally who are going to know how to structure a P and L, how to forecast supply chain, how to create demand just beyond the influencer channel as well. And you need those two things working together. And when you do, it's magic. But if you don't have like both of those sides and like great product development is the core is essential. Like you have to have the most.

Rhiannon Joyce (45:15)

Product is king product or queen.

Rachel Wilde (45:17)

Yeah, like, yeah, you can't sell bad products. So like that's. And I think that these maybe like there's these been these influencer brands pop up without that maybe know how product expertise and like long term thinking around product, which you have in like more of an established business, you definitely need.

Rhiannon Joyce (45:33)

That authenticity and that value exchange to be aligned.

Ruby (45:39)

Hello, it's Ruby here, the host of Inherited. And I'm popping up to tell you about my conversation with award winning writer Lech Blaine. I spoke to Lech about his idiosyncratic upbringing and the Christian fanatics who tried to kidnap his foster siblings. He has written about it so, so beautifully in his latest book, Australian Gospel. But here is a sneak peek from our conversation.

Lech Blaine (46:01)

Yeah, I just remember visceral fear and the sort of fear where you kind of. Even when I was older, even when the Shelleys were in different countries or I was still waiting for them to show up all the time time. When I started to look into their backgrounds, I realized, wow, like they're fascinating. Like not just in terms of who they became, but who they were before that. And so I just really wanted to know how they changed. Like, how does that happen? Like I was just on a human level, I was like just fascinated. How did those two people become these two people? And that was really kind of the start of me looking at this story as a potential book.

Ruby (46:38)

And before you go, you'll also want to hear my chat with Home and Away star Tessa James. Here she speaks about the moment she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma at 23.

Tessa James (46:48)

It was traumatic. Yeah, it was, it was a lot. I mean, in the beginning it's kind of like a lot around it. You know, everyone's like, I'm so sorry, are you okay? And all of that kind of stuff. But as it goes on, it went on for six months. Like that became my life, my new normal. And you know, as you're doing treatment, you become less and less of a person, basically. So not that it has any similarity to acting, but it was a similar thing that I would kind of say to myself, like before I go into an audition, like, yes, you can do this, you know, And I would go in and I would really get the courage to go into that room and I would do that every time that I would go into get treatment because, you know, the, the first, second time you go in, you don't really know what's happening. But third, fourth, like, you know what you're going into. And so that was, that was really difficult. I think it took me a really long time to get my sense of self back. And it, and it wasn't even the same sense of self. I wasn't, I was a different person. I was a new, a new me. And I think that that took a bit of time to get used to as well.

Ruby (47:51)

You can listen to both of these conversations in full. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app. And we're on Instagram and TikTok as well at Inherited the Pod. And we'll be back with another episode next Tuesday. So we'll see you then.

Rhiannon Joyce (48:08)

Before we wrap up, I would love the listeners who, you know, not everyone runs their own business. There are a lot of people that are listening to this podcast who work in marketing, work in brand. Even if you're not running your own business, stylish listeners would love your your advice on bringing ideas to life, backing yourself. We've spoken a lot about that today. Pushing through self doubt and insecurity. What's the one piece of advice you would give them considering all of that for confidence?

Rachel Wilde (48:33)

I think there's. Confidence is a muscle and you have to be doing things to build it up. So I know that certain things might scare you. It's like break it down into like what feels manageable and then just action. Like it's this constant action. I look at at myself before the business and after and I'm so much more confident in myself. But that hasn't actually come through external validation. It has come through the fact that I have been able to continuously like try things along the way, which means I've failed that many times. But what I've built up is knowledge and skill set that no one can like take away from me now. And that has built my confidence. I wouldn't have gotten there without doing, learning, failing. And I think it's if you can just create those bite sized chunks where every day you're going to do something new or you're going to try something new in a manageable way. If you are doing that every day, you'll turn around in six months time and be like, whoa, I'm completely different now. And like the level of confidence I have in these things that once felt unachievable is like, I don't even think twice about them. That's how it works is like you just do it. You do the thing over and over again. So I think a lot of people like, wait, waiting for what's the thing that I can build up my confidence so that I can do the thing. It's like, no, actually just doing the thing is what's going to give you the confidence later, even if it goes badly because you know, and it's calculated, you're not going to go and like throw yourself in a crazy situation, but take those calculated risks along the way. And it's like an elastic band and it just stretches. And eventually you've got like this bandwidth that you never realized that you had before. So that would be like my practical advice. And then when it comes to ideas, ideas, I'm a big lover of the purple cow theory. I don't know if you've heard this, I'm not familiar with this, but if you are on a road trip and you see a cow like out the window, you're like, oh, it's a cow, right? You're like, look at that. And then you pass like a few paddocks and like, there's more cows and there's more cows. And you might be like, oh, look at the cow, look at the cow, look at the cow. And eventually you're like, you don't see them. Like there's just cows in the paddock. Like you've seen them before. But then you see a purple can you cow? And you're like, oh my God, it's a purple cow. And you. Anyway, this whole thing is to say, don't mimic other people's strategies. Once it's been done before, that's the purple cow. You can't recreate the purple cow by copying. So when it comes to idea generation, what I say to my team, and they will say it back to me now, they're like, it's the purple cow because I'm like, is it different? Like, is it gonna stand out if something's worked for someone else? Don't like, rinse and repeat. Like, take. I think you can take inspiration, but like, apply your own critical thinking and make it your own and create a purple cow. And. Yeah, so when I think about idea generation, I. I'm. I'm always asking myself, is it a purple cow? Like, will people stop and be like, whoa, I haven't seen that before.

Rhiannon Joyce (51:25)

Let's talk about the launch of Booth and that moment as a campaign. It was huge. It was everywhere. I do want to talk about the choice of using wigs in a lot of that campaign promotion. There was a lot of discourse online. A lot of people had opinions about that. Can you talk me through the rationale of that decision?

Rachel Wilde (51:42)

It was a creative brand video. So to provide the context, we were launching this brand in market and we wanted to do so with like a really strong visual asset. Classic marketing. Like you have a brand campaign video. If any company launches a new product or, or you know, like big companies, they launch like seasonal campaigns. They will do so via usually a visual medium that is quite highly produced. Not necessarily the same for social media LED brands or startups. But this was important. Like, it was an important asset for us to create for launch. Cause it was like, what's the tone of voice? What's the brand identity? How can we like bring it all to life with a campaign video? So it's a stylistic choice of direction and the way that we wanted to do that. We had this really playful, like witty, but quite like smart tone of voice to the brand. And it was kind of retro chic. And so we wanted to. We were coming up with sort of concepts and it was like, about bringing it into the home as well. So we went like retro inspired, like in the house, but like glam and how does it make you feel? And wanted to like overdo it in like an ins. Kind of inspired by like a 50s champagne commercial. Anyway, it was all of this that came together that placed indie in the commercial, I'm going to call it in wigs, to demonstrate like this very grand, like visual effect of like, what was going to happen to her hair when she used the products, or what was going to happen to the customer's hair or how they would feel. Most people got that because those who were like following the brand and indie, they saw that come to life. And then we'd had Indy introduce the product on her page with her whole video diary where she documented all of her results in her campaign chaotic style that she usually does, which was very familiar to her audience with vlogs. So we had ticked like those other boxes. Right. Launched the campaign video to introduce the brand to market. Most people understood it. And then there was like a few people that were like, I'm confused as to why you used wigs to promote hair growth product. And it was like, fair enough, like that. If you just read that out of context, like 100%. But I think most people understood that it was like an art direction or a brand identity, not like, hey, this is the result she had with the product.

Rhiannon Joyce (53:53)

It's also also one element of the strategy as you just laid out. There were so many other elements that had gone live up until that point. So majority of your audience had been on that consumer journey and consumed a lot of that content. So there is a small minority that obviously haven't. You've addressed a lot of those comments yourself personally. Why did you choose to center yourself as a founder in a lot of those direct reply comments back?

Rachel Wilde (54:15)

Oh, gosh, that's a good question. Why did I do that? No, I think again, there's strategy, but then there's also just like operating every day. Like, not everything is that well thought out. Like, and I think that's the beauty of it. Like, we're not that calculated a lot of the time. There was a big proportion of people, so there was like a, a few people that were quite genuine in their, like, questioning of why do you have wigs? And then there was another portion of people that, that were like, they use wigs for a hair growth product. Outrage, Outrage. And then there was like, they would run with that. And some of these people never saw the original video. They actually didn't know what was going on. They didn't know about the brand. They'd never watched the original campaign video. They saw this one piece of information and ran with it. There was also another group of people on the Internet that I think were waiting for like the gotcha like, moment. You know, it's like there's. And I think that's what happens when you, when you're building at this scale. Right, right. Yes. With indie and you've got this big audience. There's a group of people who are like, yeah, like, you know, they're just, they're there ready to like, consume the content and go along this customer journey. But there's a group of people there that were waiting for like the, the fall down. Yeah. So they were, they were like waiting, ready for anything. And the wigs was like the thing they were like, ha. Gotcha. Like you're not who you say you are. Like they were waiting. And so no matter what you said, they didn't want to hear it. Like it was just like anyway. So that's sort of like the context. And it snowballed. Right. Like it was like quite a conversation on Tick Tock. I was scrolling through my for you page. Every second video was like mocking like influencers putting hair growth products in their hair or like, you know, and actually some of them were quite funny. But it was like this huge, huge amount of volume. So I was like, okay, like is.

Rhiannon Joyce (56:00)

This really like warranted intention versus interpretation? I feel like it's a classic scenario where you didn't intend on setting out.

Rachel Wilde (56:09)

No.

Rhiannon Joyce (56:09)

For this to be misleading or for this to be. And again, there's only a small percentage of the community or not, maybe not even your community that think that.

Rachel Wilde (56:18)

Yeah. And I think that was the key call out for me. The learning was is that those people were never going to be our customers anyway in terms of why I was probably leveraging. So I've sort of now been posting more. Yes. From my own personal channel. Channel that was actually more to not confuse people between TBH and Booth.

Rhiannon Joyce (56:38)

Interesting.

Rachel Wilde (56:38)

So I really wanted to start like removing myself a little bit more from the TBH channels. Number one, that gives like the team more room to operate without me like on those pages. But also then like I didn't want to become a front facing face on the Booth account specifically. So it was like, how can we like talk about these brands in the way that customers are really interested in? They really want to see that insight and have that transparency. And I love sharing it because I'm super passionate about it. So it's also like fun for me it was like, how can we do that? And it made more sense to centralize it on my own channel versus have it live on the brand channels. So that was actually the reason why we started posting more specifically from my account and sharing more of like that founder angle. It was a mix of people want to see it. It's less confusing for it to not live on the brand pages. And also it's really fun.

Rhiannon Joyce (57:27)

It also adds a human element to it. And particularly in Australia, there are a lot of female founded brands where founders do center them. And I don't mean that in a way where it's like, oh, it's all about you. It's more so that you're creating a connection with your community through your face, through your own personal Channels. I'd be pressed to know an Australian founded brand by females that isn't really doing that. There aren't that many. And I know we've spoken about this on the Shameless podcast before and we actually referenced tbh. I believe it was in a shame More episode.

Rachel Wilde (57:53)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (57:53)

And missions are going back and forth and having discourse on can brands do this and can they be successful without having that founder journey attached to it? And you know what also comes with that is what?

Rachel Wilde (58:03)

Risk.

Rhiannon Joyce (58:04)

Because it exposes you. It, you know, brings. It convolutes boundaries as well from your own personal, you know, what you're willing to share and how much you show up every day. So it's a really interesting conversation and I don't think it ends here. I feel like it's ever evolving and, you know, we might look back in a few years and you might even, as you have right now, reflected on and been like, why did I do that?

Rachel Wilde (58:25)

Why did I do that?

Rhiannon Joyce (58:26)

But at the same time, your businesses wouldn't be as successful as they are if you hadn't done done that. So, yeah, it's not the only reason why, but I do think it's an important piece and a reason why a lot of people do show up for brands. I know it's a reason why I show up for brands. I love understanding the why behind founders. Their journey, their experience, the ups, the downs, the highs, the lows.

Rachel Wilde (58:45)

Yeah.

Rhiannon Joyce (58:46)

I think it always makes a deeper connection for a brand.

Rachel Wilde (58:50)

Yeah. And you know, people are putting out their hard earned cash. They deserve to know like, who they're supporting and where it's going. I think that is a big component for people in like, feeling. Feeling like they know more about where they're shopping or. Yeah. What's guiding those decisions. And then I think there's also a group of people that are probably like, and this is the part I love is like they're inspired to then be like, well, I can go out and do something or I can question how things are done and find a better solution. And yeah, like, I hope it creates that room for people to feel like they can go and do the same thing.

Rhiannon Joyce (59:24)

Absolutely. Rage. This has been such a good conversation. I feel so lucky to be sitting here and I just noticed our stylish community are going to adore this chat. You've given us so much good insight into both the brands. You've been really transparent with us as well. Is what. Which is what we love when founders show up behind the mic. You've told us the good, the Bad, the Ugly. And I just know everyone's going to love this episode. So thank you so much.

Rachel Wilde (59:46)

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. A pleasure.

Rhiannon Joyce (59:49)

And that's all for this new fortnightly episode of Stylish, focusing on brand and marketing. Thank you so much for joining us. And remember, you can drop us an email anytime at style is shameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish Pod. And we can't forget to thank the wonderful Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. We'll be back with you in a fortnight. See you then, guys. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri Land.

Rachel Wilde (60:30)

Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.