What The Devil Wears Prada got wrong about fashion girls

Summary

Podcast Summary: Style-ish Episode - "What The Devil Wears Prada Got Wrong About Fashion Girls"

Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host: Madison Sullivan Thorpe
Co-hosts: Anika Joshi Smith & Joanna Fleming
Description: Style-ish dives deep into the worlds of fashion, branding, business, and beauty, unraveling industry trends and providing insightful commentary.

---

1. L'Oréal's Strategic Investment in Uni

[00:07:00]

The episode opens with a significant revelation in the body care industry: L'Oréal's recent investment in Uni, an up-and-coming Australian body care brand. Madison Sullivan Thorpe highlights the strategic move by L'Oréal to bolster its presence in the burgeoning body care market.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
"Uni is an Australian body care brand... L'Oréal have invested to enable her to launch into all Ulta stores in the US." [00:01:07]

This investment not only propels Uni into over 800 Ulta stores across the United States but also signifies L'Oréal's unwavering commitment to expanding its portfolio in the body care sector. The discussion further delves into how this move positions L'Oréal against other prominent brands like Sol de Janeiro and Road Stone, emphasizing the competitive dynamics within the industry.

Joanna Fleming:
"That is amazing." [00:01:40]

Madison notes L'Oréal's continued investments, mentioning their acquisition of Aesop and the support of brands like Road and Medicaid, underscoring their aggressive expansion strategy.

2. The Reemergence of Estee Laundrie: A Beauty Industry Watchdog

[00:11:00]

A pivotal segment of the episode covers the return of Estee Laundrie, an anonymous Instagram beauty critic account that has recently resurfaced after a two-year hiatus.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
"Estee Laundrie relies entirely on anonymous tips... it's been big news because this is an Instagram account." [00:11:00]

The hosts discuss Estee Laundrie's role in critiquing beauty brands and executives, highlighting its impact on corporate culture within the beauty industry. Joanna Fleming draws parallels to "Gossip Girl," noting the account's reliance on insider tips and its evolution from brand call-outs to more substantive commentary.

Anika Joshi Smith:
"It's kind of like Gossip Girl, isn't it? Like mysterious, like tips that come through?" [00:12:26]

However, the credibility of Estee Laundrie is questioned due to its anonymous sourcing, leading to debates on the reliability and potential biases of such platforms.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
"As long as something is built on the foundation of anonymity, that it is hard to ever know the credibility of the sources." [00:16:21]

The discussion concludes with reflections on the balance between transparency and credibility, emphasizing the need for verifiable sources to uphold journalistic integrity.

3. Princess Polly’s B Corp Certification Under Scrutiny

[00:22:22]

The conversation shifts to a controversial development: Australian fast fashion giant Princess Polly attaining B Corp certification.

Anika Joshi Smith:
"What The Devil Wears Prada got wrong about fashion girls... Princess Polly received a B Corp certification." [00:22:22]

B Corp certification is intended for companies that meet high standards of social and environmental performance, accountability, and transparency. However, experts like Dr. Harriet Richards from RMIT University express skepticism about Princess Polly's legitimacy in achieving this certification.

Dr. Harriet Richards:
"Princess Polly's B Corp certification is disappointing because it undermines the value and credibility of the accreditation." [00:24:40]

Critics argue that despite some sustainable initiatives, Princess Polly's business model—characterized by overproduction and rapid consumption—fundamentally contradicts the principles of sustainability. The hosts debate the implications of such certifications potentially acting as greenwashing tools, misleading consumers about the true environmental impact of their purchases.

Joanna Fleming:
"I just feel like this is kind of greenwashing in its prime." [00:27:53]

The segment highlights the complexities of sustainability in fast fashion, urging listeners to critically assess certifications and the actual practices of brands.

4. Reality vs. Fiction: How Fashion Professionals Really Dress

[00:31:02]

A significant portion of the episode examines the disparity between the glamorous portrayal of fashion professionals in media—particularly in "The Devil Wears Prada"—and the practical reality of their daily attire.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
"The Devil Wears Prada... film just does not accurately depict the average person working in the fashion industry." [00:33:09]

Referencing a Teen Vogue article by Ayanna Ishmael, the hosts discuss how actual fashion industry professionals prioritize comfort, practicality, and personal style over high-fashion statements. The article underscores that many in the industry adopt a uniform of simple, comfortable clothing, debunking the myth of constant glitz and high heels.

Ayanna Ishmael (Teen Vogue Article):
"In reality... fashion creatives develop an everyday uniform of sorts." [00:34:00]

Joanna Fleming shares her personal journey in the industry, recounting how initial misconceptions of unwavering glamour were replaced by the realities of minimum wages and practical dressing.

Joanna Fleming:
"Fashion people are normal people... practicality, dressing for comfort, dressing for ease is something that we really cherish." [00:37:46]

The hosts emphasize the financial constraints and professional demands that influence how fashion workers dress, challenging the stereotypes perpetuated by popular media.

5. Opinions, Please: Shoe Recommendations for a European Trip

[00:43:42]

In the "Opinions, Please" segment, the hosts address a listener's dilemma about selecting the perfect pair of shoes for a four-week European trip. Naomi seeks advice on balancing comfort with style while limiting her selection to three or four pairs.

Anika Joshi Smith:
"What types of shoes would you recommend I bring?" [00:44:28]

Joanna Fleming recommends a versatile selection, including:

• Sneakers: Essential for daily walking and comfort.

  Joanna Fleming:
  "Always a sneaker, like a sneaker is just an absolute must for me." [00:45:02]

• Flip Flops: For casual wear and easy comfort.

  Joanna Fleming:
  "They're a bit of a lazy choice but super comfortable." [00:46:28]

• Wedges or Flats: For evening outings, balancing style with comfort.

  Joanna Fleming:
  "I would do a wedge or a flat form." [00:46:50]

Anika adds specific brand recommendations, enhancing the practicality of the advice.

Anika Joshi Smith:
"I have the On Running Roger Advantage sneakers... they're unisex and great for walking." [00:47:50]

Madison shares her personal experiences with different shoes, emphasizing the importance of grip and comfort, especially on cobblestone streets.

Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
"You've got to make sure you check the base of that shoe because if it's got no grip to it, you're gonna slip." [00:50:39]

The segment concludes with light-hearted banter, reflecting the hosts' camaraderie and genuine intention to assist listeners.

---

Notable Quotes

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
  "L'Oréal clearly are investing heavily in body care." [00:02:40]

• Anika Joshi Smith:
  "I do feel that a business deserves the right to answer to what is being said about them." [00:16:21]

• Joanna Fleming:
  "Fashion people are normal people... it's just not the reality." [00:37:46]

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
  "I am deeply flawed." [00:03:43]

---

Insights and Conclusions

• Industry Dynamics: L'Oréal's investment in Uni exemplifies the consolidation and strategic expansion in the body care sector, highlighting emerging trends and competitive pressures.

• Transparency and Credibility: The reactivation of Estee Laundrie raises important questions about anonymous critiques in the beauty industry, emphasizing the need for transparent and verifiable sources to maintain credibility.

• Sustainability vs. Business Models: Princess Polly's B Corp certification sparks a critical discussion on the authenticity of sustainability claims within fast fashion, cautioning against greenwashing and urging consumers to scrutinize certifications.

• Reality vs. Media Portrayal: The fashion industry's actual working environment and attire starkly contrast with fictional depictions, revealing practical challenges and demystifying the allure often associated with fashion careers.

• Practical Fashion Advice: The "Opinions, Please" segment provides actionable advice for consumers, bridging the gap between fashion aspirations and practical travel needs.

---

This episode of Style-ish presents a multifaceted exploration of the fashion and beauty industries, blending industry news with critical analysis and practical advice. Through thoughtful discussions and insightful commentary, the hosts encourage listeners to navigate the complexities of fashion authenticity, sustainability, and personal style with informed perspectives.

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign. This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Dan Murphy's Find out what's new now and next when it comes to trending drinks. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe. My co hosts today are Anika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Hello. Happy Wednesday.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Happy Wednesday.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

How are we?

[Joanna Fleming]

Happy Wednesday, ladies.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm bloody fantastic.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

How are you guys? How's the recovery post New York?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Recovery Post New York has been quite the humbling experience. I've got to say. Having three olives, perhaps with a side of a martini, is something that I do miss having on a random Wednesday.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

The post holiday countdown is. It's a harsh reality.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It is definitely real, but I'm going away for a dear friend's wedding next month, so I'm super excited for that.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Vaan, where are we going?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Florence. I know.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Very jealous.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Something quite romantic about Florence.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my goodness.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Watch this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We'll see. Well, you know, your words, not mine. Did you guys see the Australian brand? The body care brand? Uni received investment from l' Oreal last week.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, I didn't.

[Joanna Fleming]

Huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So Uni is an Australian body care brand.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

They're in Mecca, aren't they?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They are, yeah. They launched earlier this year. They were created by Alexandra Keating, who, fun fact is, actually ex Prime Minister Paul Keating's daughter.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Oh.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But she's created this body care brand and l' Oreal have invested to enable her to launch into all Ulta stores in the US.

[Joanna Fleming]

That is amazing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Over 800 stores. Wow.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Wow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This is a massive deal for an Australian body care brand.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Also fascinated by what this means in the body care space. I mean, there's no denying we've had the likes of Sol de Janeiro just blow up over the last few years. Was also super surprised when I went to the States. Salton Stone seems to just be everywhere. And then UK PR agency Dominique Templeton, DT Consulting, who are kind of like the creme de la creme of PR in the UK. Like, they've got road, they've got Tower 28 merit. It's a cool brand. They've got it. Have also just taken on Salton Stone. But I'm getting sidetracked here because my point is that l' Oreal clearly are investing in the body care space, most recently with Uni, but then also obviously the mammoth deal last year with Aesop.

[Joanna Fleming]

Huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So I'm intrigued to see kind of what's going on. L' Oreal don't seem to be slowing on the investment front and are investing clearly heavily in body care.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. Also they took on Medicaid.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So just in general, they seem to have just investing. Yeah. Which is interesting because there was headlines recently about Shiseido laying off a number of staff.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And they apparently said that that was following a 14.5 sales drop in the Americas during Q1 2025. And that was because of a 60% slump in sales of its Drunk Elephant brand.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Right.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Which obviously we know used to be huge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Is that still significantly declining in popularity with the likes of things like Road becoming so much more popular?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And also we've had other competitive brands in that space, like Glow Recipe, that are playing in actives in a really sort of fun pack way. For anyone who doesn't know, Shiseido is the parent company that owns Drunk Elephant, as Dory mentioned, but they also have NAS and recently acquired Dr. Dennis Gross as well. So it's kind of a tale of two big parent companies at the moment. You could even put Estee Lauder in. In that Shiseido space too, because they had layoffs and they've reported massive downward turn in the last few years. I think we're saying a real juxtaposition in the beauty space. You've then got ELF investing $1 billion in road.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Like, very interesting.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Says a lot about our favorite brands and who's winning and who's not.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

It does. I do want to where this kind of leads us in five years as well. In the beauty space. Like, is l' Oreal going to own every brand?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because it feels that way. I mean, maybe. And maybe elf.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, well, today we're going to be talking about the return of Estee Laundrie, one of our favorite Instagram accounts. Princess Polly is surprising and also confusing. B Corp certification, how people in fashion actually dress. And opinions, please, is back. This time we're answering a listener's dilemma about what shoes to pack for a Euro trip, which I'm sure a lot of people will be grateful for because it seems like everyone and their dog is in Europe at the moment. But first, what are we swapping in this week?

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay, well, I guess can I take my number one spot back here?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes, you can.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Thank you so much.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Go back to the rightful rank.

[Joanna Fleming]

Wow. I am going to swap in today someone who I just find undeniably so incredibly cool. And she also heads up at a really cool account called Dietparatha. So, Anita Chiba. She is a fellow Kiwi and fellow Indian, and I am honestly just so in awe of this girl and her talent, she is just so creative. And I think something I've admired about her for a while now is she used to work in the media landscape and she really noticed a lack of representation and South Asian representation across, like, Westernised media. And I think growing up in New Zealand, you didn't really notice, like, I guess, too much about people of color being in the media or looking to media and saying, I guess, people who resonated with me specifically. And she noticed it and she's really kind of made sure that she's created a platform, a creative space and now a creative agency as well, that just heroes and spotlights and powers uplifts South Asian talent. And she is honestly remarkable. She started this, I think, in 2017 and she's now been featured in Vogue so many times. She is just literally doing everything to support her culture and she's really created this incredible community that just back supports and empowers everyone. I think of color as well, and I think it's just really important during a time now where diversity inclusivity is so important. We talk about it all the time on the pod and I just love everything that she's doing. So if you want to be inspired by someone, honestly, her creative vision, like her home styling, everything about this girl is just fucking cool. So give her a follow if you want to be inspired.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Sounds like someone I want to follow. We'll make sure that that link is in the episode.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, like, her style, everything about her, like, she is just so cool. She makes me look so basic.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And that's quite a challenge.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Joe, what's yours?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

My swap is actually around bridal nails. So I am now on the journey, being four months out from my wedding, of solidifying the bridal nail month. Yeah, I know. It's flown. It's crazy. It's like around the corner. Oh, my goodness.

[Joanna Fleming]

I might get.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm on the. I'm on the journey of finding the right bridal nail at the moment. I do not have bridal nails on. I have burgundy nails, but I. The last time I got my nails done, I asked my Instagram audience what the best bridal nail was. Because when I went in to go and get my nails done, I was like, oh, there's. I don't know which color's gonna be right. And then I don't want to have that on my nails for a month.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because I leave it four weeks.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

It's like, oh, I really wanna be sure of this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You leave them on for four weeks?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, same. Do you not I have to go every two.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Why?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm, like, fully outgrown.

[Joanna Fleming]

Are you taking supplements of some description that we're not?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I mean, mine are grown out, but I just leave them that way.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Maybe my genes need to be studied. My hair and nails both grow very quickly.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Wow. Okay. Well, sorry we can't all be perfect.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am a deeply flawed individual. That's probably all I've got going well.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So I asked my audience about their best bridal nail shades, and I wanted to share them with the future brides that are listening to this podcast. So the most popular suggestions were the gel bottle, dolly, Demure, Grace and ballet, which are builder in a bottle shades.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

The other option is to have shellac on top of builder in a bottle. Or you could just get shellac on its own.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I at the moment have shellac over the top of builder gel. So you could have Opi Love is in the Bear bubble bath or put it in neutral over the top of buyab. Or you could have that by itself.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So they were the most popular.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Ones Meds.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm looking at you. I feel like you recently said something on your Instagram as well. What is that combo?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Neutral.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

For the longest time, like years was two coats Funny Bunny. That one coat bubble bar.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I think somebody did also say that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like, don't want to. Oh, opaque. Too transparent. Or if I, like, wanted a touch of it without it being as transparent as just bubble bath, I would do one coat Funny Bunny, which is kind of like a milky pink. Like it's got, like a base to it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And then two coats of bubble bath.

[Joanna Fleming]

O. I think that's what I did.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think. I can't remember now, but yeah. When I saw that in your notes, I was like, those are the colors.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm going to try a French tip at my next appointment with one of those shades underneath. And then my next appointment, I'll do a different one and I'm going to take notes on them. Someone sent me, like, a screenshot of their notes app and was like, this was me at every appointment for six months out of my wedding. And I tried all different shades and wrote notes about it. I'm like, that. That's my kind of person.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Her and Miranda would get on Miranda's Canva packing hat.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So that's mine. What's yours?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you know what? I was actually going to swap in something completely different. Then I remembered what I bought during the week and just absolutely loved.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Go on.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So you guys know That I Love the Hourglass 1.5 millimeter mechanical eyeliner for my inner lash line. But the top of my eyeliner at the moment, sometimes I'm just feeling like that's a touch too intense. So I still tight line with my hourglass, but when I was away in New York, my girlfriend Beck was using this eyeliner and I was like, I really like it. It's almost like it's like an old school crayon style, but it's in a proper pencil. You got to sharpen vibe. So it's from Westman Atelier, and it only comes in black and chocolate. And I got the chocolate and it's so easy to smudge. Like, I'm not using a brush. It's literally just with my finger. And my little tip is to get the pencil go round and round, almost like just in a little circle in the corner of your eye and then just with your index finger, pull out for a little liner.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Isn't that what you did the other day?

[Joanna Fleming]

I did. And everyone was like, you look sexy.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

You look mysterious. And I was like, I used my finger.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And it works every time. And it's like the perfect way to make sure they're symmetrical, but really nice and soft. I didn't use it today. I've got the 1.5 millimeter.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know. I'm so blind, and I'm trying to zoom in on you right now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm so sorry I've let you all down, but absolutely love it.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, that's mine.

[Joanna Fleming]

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll be adding to car.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I did buy that Charlotte Tilbury eyeliner that you told us.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I've been trying to get it. It kept being out of stock and I finally got it eventually. I am. No, I'm not wearing that today.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Wait, am I wearing that today?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think you actually might.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I think I might be, Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think you were wearing it last week.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I might have been, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because I remember leaving and going, I told her her eyeliner looked great. Oh, yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, you didn't.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am a witch.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

That's okay. I'll take it a week later.

[Joanna Fleming]

Love it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Seven business days. Okay, so this is a bit of a juicy1, because OGs may remember this Instagram account. And for those of you who don't, never fear, we're going to give you all the details, but it's been big news because this is an Instagram account. The best way I would describe this is if, like, De Moi Met diet product. Yeah. So it's very much insider talk of the beauty world. So it's an anonymous beauty critic account that's been on Instagram for some time now. It was first founded in 2018 and to this day no one knows who or how many people are behind it. I have strong suspicions that there is an Aussie in the mix and I have had them since 2018, but I'll leave my alleged conspiracy theories at the door. So, as I mentioned, very similar to De Moi. But much like that gossip account, Estee Laundrie relies entirely on anonymous tips that is sent in and has said that it only posts a story after receiving a critical mass of tips.

[Joanna Fleming]

Right?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So according to the Business of Fashion article, it's known for its sometimes catty coverage of beauty founders and executives. While it started out calling out beauty brands that were ripping off each other's brands and products, it evolved into a sort of unofficial beauty industry watchdog that covered and critiqued beauty's corporate culture. Have you guys seen the account or followed it?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes, I followed it for a long time.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's kind of like Gossip Girl, isn't it? Like mysterious, like tips that come through?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, but they've covered everything from bullying to racism accusations. The account aimed at beauty executives and founders who were behaving poorly have really been called out on this account. Speaking to Business of Fashion, Estee Laundrie said, we kept hearing stories about brands and founders who were openly willing to exclude people of color and some executives that had a reputation for bullying behavior. We were surprised no one was talking about it. So that's a little bit of background on the account and you might be thinking, why is it newsworthy? Well, the account actually went on a two year hiatus and was reactivated late last week. Which is funny because when they popped up in my feed I was like, God, I haven't seen them for ages. Same hadn't realized that actually gone radio silent. Had just assumed I hadn't been like getting it in my, you know, stories and you know page. According to the same Business of Fashion article, which featured an interview with a representative of the account, Estee Laundrie plans to focus its future on long form opinion pieces and commentary, which is very different to kind of the snackable gossip they've been sharing or exposes, I should say, of, you know, more recent Times A brief scan of the comments on their reactivated IG shows that their followers are pretty overjoyed that they're back. During the account's absence, an account that filled the void they left never really materialized and people have clearly Been hungry for this type of coverage as you both just jumped up and down saying he was rude. It was back. While some are dubious about the account's journalistic integrity and don't view it as a valid news source, this new iteration of Estee Laundrie will see it elevating its coverage by publishing on Patreon to subscribers who each pay $8 a month. They're not silly, are they? One way to commercialize it. Yeah, because I very much doubt they'll be getting beauty sponsorships over there. It published the first installment of its weekly newsletter, laundry service on July 18, covering the Shiseido layoffs that we just mentioned earlier at the start of this episode by providing context about the company's performance and anonymous testimonies from employees who were impacted. So you've both mentioned that you've followed the account before.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Joe, you're an OG Arnica. Were you the same?

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes. And I feel like as well, it's really evolved since I first started following it. I feel like it used to really be about call out culture and naming and shaming. And I do think now, or maybe, well, not in the last two year hiatus, but prior it was definitely kind of talking to more really important issues. And I think issues that definitely did deserve airtime. But I think just on the newsworthy piece, sometimes I do like it's so easy to get caught up and when people spill the tea. Right. Cause you're like, oh, this is gossipy. But then I always try to think about it like, okay, I would love to know the other side to this argument because obviously it is all exposes, anonymous tips. And I just wonder how credible a lot of the information is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. What do you think of their credibility, Jo?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, the anonymity element makes it difficult to consider it a news source because we can't verify that any of these people, you know, exist because they are an anonymous. And we also can't discount that it might just be a pylon of disgruntled people that maybe worked somewhere, got laid off. They're upset about it and they're all, you know, jumping in to give their opinion on it without a balanced perspective from. Also the brand side.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

As well. And so I think we're missing that balance here, which is probably why I wouldn't subscribe to the Patreon. I'd probably want to still access their free content. But I'm in it to just, just see what's going on. I'm not really using it to form an opinion on a brand it might shape my opinion a little bit if I know that there's something going on internally because there's often a glossy image of a brand or a business and then you kind of have the lid lifted and you're like, oh, okay, I didn't expect that to be happening behind closed doors.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, sure.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

What do you think, Mads?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I totally agree. My firm opinion is so long as something is built on the foundation of anonymity, that it is hard to ever know the credibility of the sources or how many of them there are. And I think transparently citing sources would really be the only way for me to personally feel that this is a credible source. And even then I would be wanting to know, you know, how long was the source within the business, what was the role that they had, what was their tenure, those kinds of things. Because for me, totally to your point, Joe, I'm with you. It's very one sided. I do feel that a business deserves the right to answer to what is being said about them because it is very easy for employers to be disgruntled and sometimes the squeakiest wheel can get the most oil. And I don't want that to be confused with very serious allegations that have been covered on there before, like bullying or harassment or exclusion due to, you know, race or gender and things like that. But I do think where they need to stand on their own two feet is where those sources are coming from and the credibility of them. Because otherwise we're all going in blind and believing an Instagram account that we don't know who runs it and we don't know who's writing in.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that even getting comments from the brands themselves to form some of this reporting, if that's the direction that they're going in, would be really beneficial to coming across as a reliable news source.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally agree. The same way that I wouldn't trust De Moi to tell me when Taylor Swift's pregnant. I'm probably not trusting.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, you kind of take it with a grain of salt. Right. Like this is one of those accounts where you're like, oh, you might start to hear whispers of things and that might be your early, like, introduction to something going on, but you're probably going to rely on an actual news source to finalize that piece of information.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Absolutely. And even take the Shiseido story that, you know, they came back online with. That was kind of their re emergence into social society. I didn't believe the sources until I saw the screenshot of the internal communications from Shiseido.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Which, again, they're not supposed to go outside the four walls.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Of the business.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Which is why some of those people would have maintained their anonymity, because they don't want to be seen to be sharing things outside of the business.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I mean, the invisible cloak is a blessing and a curse in these kinds of things. So I have no doubt that beauty brands are absolutely displeased to see that Estee Laundry is back.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, I don't think that'd be wrapped. Estee Lauder, in particular, whose play on words it is named after, I want to kind of put ourselves in the shoes of the people that are exercising their anonymity. I can understand why they wouldn't want to give their identity away to Estee Laundrie. Because in this industry, it can be a very small place and if your name is then associated with you speaking, speaking out in relation to something that has happened to you in the workplace, you may then fear that that will maybe jeopardize your future employment opportunities and things like that. So I can understand why you wouldn't want to say some of the things that are sent into Estee Laundry and why do we keep anonymity?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, totally.

[Joanna Fleming]

I agree with you. And I think as well, it can be really daunting and scary if you are part of a big corporation and, you know, you're going up, like, some of the names in this game are huge and I think just the money and the cash behind these brands and the legal teams, it's like, it would be really daunting and you probably maybe want to speak out because you're like, this isn't right and you want to call it out. But as an employee, can you actually afford to, you know, go up against these corpses? Well, it is really, really, really scary.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Mads. I think you're right about there being an Aussie as well, behind the account in some way, shape or form.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Early days, I just remember a lot of the content being Australian based and I'm like, is this like Gossip Girl? But there's a little Gossip Girl in each, like, region now. Yeah, but originally I was like this feel and a lot of the spelling and I really deep dive into this. A lot of the spelling and things was like, uk Australian. It wasn't right. I mean. Yeah. So, you know, she's done her really good observation.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Clearly enthralled in 2018. I wasn't even working in beauty at the time. I was watching from the sidelines.

[Joanna Fleming]

I actually remember that's how I got introduced to it because I remember there being quite a few new New Zealand reports as well. Like just things happening across Australia and New Zealand, which got my attention. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So maybe it's Kwik, maybe it's me. Well, next we're going to discuss Princess Polly's B Corp certification. But this will be right after a word from today's sponsor. Let me set the scene. A new restaurant has just opened up, you made a booking and now the time has finally come. You and your girlfriends are literally counting down the minutes to this night out. Well, that's exactly what I'm doing this week. But we've been dying to try this new place in Melbourne for months. And rather than just meeting at the restaurant, I thought it would be cute to do a pre dinner cocktail at mine. I just feel it makes the whole night a little bit more special. So I'm thinking we get ready, I'll do a braising platter and serve up a round of cocktails to get us all in the mood. I obviously don't want to be stuck whipping up cocktails all afternoon, so all signs are pointing to a bougie premix cocktail. This week. I'm heading into Dan Murphy's because they always have the trending drinks in stock and I spotted the four Pillars gin punch cans. Apparently they're a refreshing riff on the Shed style gin punch cocktail. I mean, it's perfect. Dan Murphy's is the place to go for the next big thing in drinks. So whether you're hosting at home or just want to be in the know, drop in store or download the Dan Murphy's app today to get inspired and remember to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, in news that almost made us fall out of our chairs earlier this month, Australian ultra fast fashion brand Princess Polly received a B Corp certification. And for those of you that don't know what a B Corp certification is, in simple terms, it's a for profit company that's certified as meeting high standards of environmental or social performance, accountability and transparency. Something you wouldn't ever really associate with a fast fashion brand. Businesses must score at least 80 out of a possible 250 plus points in the B impact assessment to achieve accreditation. So organizations are assessed in five key areas. Those are community, customers, environment, governance and workers. Princess Polly, founded in the Gold coast in 2010, has become a hugely popular fast fashion retailer online. Known for producing a high turnover of low cost, trend driven pieces, Princess Polly says its mission is to make on trend sustainable fashion accessible to everyone. And as part of this mission, they've made a few changes in recent years, like being a participant in the United Nations Global Compact which commits them to sustainable procurement. Surprisingly, in 2024, the Baptist world Aid Ethical Fashion Report actually placed them in the top 20% of 460 global brands that were assessed. But on Good on you, a sustainable rating website, the brand receives a not good enough grade, which the website says is due to its lack of action on reduc textile waste and plastic protecting biodiversity in their supply chains and the lack of evidence that they pay their workers a living wage. So it's a little bit confusing how they managed to get their hands on a B Corp certification. In an article for the conversation, Dr. Harriet Richards, a senior lecturer at RMIT University's School of Fashion and Textiles, says that Princess Polly's B Corp certification is disappointing because it undermines the value and credibility of the accreditation. She says it demonstrates the value of the sustainability label as a marketing tool. Princess Polly attempts to position itself as distinct from other ultra fast fashion brands such as Shein by claiming they are sustainable. While they may use more environmentally friendly materials than some of their ultra fast fashion counterparts, the reality is that their business model, which relies on overproduction and over consumption, is unsustainable. I think that's a bit of a mic drop from Dr. Harriet at the end there, which I would have to agree with. That's the premise of a fast fashion brand, is it not?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

100% completely agree. If you asked me to name a fast fashion brand within Australia, Princess Polly would probably have been one of the first or second names off my lips.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I don't want to seem like we're coming from glass houses as well though, because we've all shopped and worn fast fashion brands or brands that participate in fast fashion activities. But this is more around how they got the B Corp certification in the first place. Because as I said in that setup it's 80 points out of a possible 250 plus points you've got to meet. Well, it's the only categories, it's the.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Only thing I've ever heard of that you get less than half and you pass. Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

It makes no sense to me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What? Yeah, imagine being like I got 80 out of 250 on the test and I'm in, I'm a doctor.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

But they must have had to have provided some evidence of sustainable and ethical practices within the business to even pass that. There must to be some evidence that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They'Ve provided absolutely There would have been. And I want to be really clear that B Corp certification is notoriously difficult to achieve. So on one hand, I know that factually, that's a fact.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And then on the other hand, my feeling is, has it become easier? Like, I'm confused by this. And I'm so with you, Joe. I'm never going to sit in an ivory tower from a fast fashion perspective. I bought shoes at Zara three weeks ago. Like, I'm not sitting here and I don't want to yuck anyone who's shot Princess Polly. What I worry about, about this B Corp certification is that it will mislead people who perhaps previously saw Princess Polly as a fast fashion retailer.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Into now, believing that they are contributing positively.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

To sustainability and environment and change by purchasing Princess polly.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And as Dr. Harriet said in that article, it's kind of being used here as a marketing tool to be like, hey, look, we're sustainable. Which I have seen on their website. They do label things as being kind of better for the environment, I think, as well.

[Joanna Fleming]

Like working in the industry, the word sustainability, it's almost become like a bit of a buzzword. And I hate to say it because there are so many brands that are actively working on their sustainability initiatives, their transparency, they're actually like, it's ingrained in their brands and their DNA and it's something that they really, really are proud of. And for me, I think this whole certification, I just need it to make sense. Like, I feel like it's almost greenwashing to a sense as well. At the end of the day, what Princess Polly does stand for is the definition of fast fashion. It's ultra cheap, it's mass produced, it's fast. Like, the trends are delivered so fast. Even, like looking on their website. I did a deep dive last night. The cheapest item on there was $4 on sale from a $30 RRP. So when it was a bikini bottom. And so I was sitting there thinking, if that's how much they can sell it for at $4 on sale, and then how the hell does that product accommodate a fair living wage? How on earth is your entire supply chain sustainable or the motives that you're using to actually produce those goods, how is that not supporting over consumption and overproduction? Like, for me, it was just looking at, you know, some small variables as well. Working in the industry and the whole business model just defines what fast fashion really is.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

So I don't know. I just feel like this is kind of greenwashing in its prime And I do worry what you said, Mads, it will kind of condone people's purchases and behavior because it's got that gold star. But that gold star, to me, just isn't really valid.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I see a lot of it in the beauty industry and I'm clearly more in tune to that, given that's my area of expertise. And I remember going for a coffee with Natasia, the founder of Conserving Beauty, who just side note, like, that's. That can be my bonus swap of the day. She is incredible. Like, just as a person, I'm not even swapping in her brand. I transparently have never used any of the products, but she and I were getting this coffee and so generous of information and insight. But even all of the work that's gone into the refillable and rechargeable space in the beauty industry at the moment, you have to be buying that rechargeable or refillable a significant amount of times for it to make sense for them to have created that as a new product as opposed to just going and buying another brand new one.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So it's quite interesting. It's not just the fashion space that we're seeing it, it's beauty brands as well that go, oh, well, 80% of our range is refillable now to tick the box in, you know, their board reports. But really, what is the dead stock that is sitting there if someone doesn't buy the refillable of the lipstick, the moisturizer, the serum, whatever it may be?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, great point.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And now, you know, we're seeing it in the beauty space. The reality is they have passed this B Corp certification. But for me, looking at this, I'm a bit like B Corp. I've lost respect for you.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Not Princess Polly in all of this. It's kind of like the conversation we had around Choice and the spf. Like I was looking at the tga.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Going there's some discrepancies here because I know brands that have not been able to get B Corp, that are doing phenomenal things in the sustainability space. So not sure if the rules have lax, not sure if things are different. But I was absolutely gobsmacked when they sent the Slack chat.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I think as well, I'm not an expert in sustainability. I don't really know the ins and outs of what that means and how to shop sustainably. And putting a label on a brand like Princess Polly, I just feel can be a little bit problematic.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Because there will be people like me that don't know a lot about sustainability that are like, oh, oh, okay, well, if that's the case, then, you know, I'm doing good for the environment when that's probably not the case, given that there's like 700 and something items in their new category.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the harsh reality is, even for a brand giving four seasons for, you know, summer, autumn, winter, and spring, Annika's probably like, there are much more fancy names, whatever. But even that is a lot of product to be produced.

[Joanna Fleming]

That's a lot. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Fascinating stuff.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I don't think this conversation will go anywhere. And I think what's fascinating about all of it is that there's a lot of sustainability shaming of brands and of consumers as well. To be made to feel really guilty for the choices that they make when there are brands that are very responsible for what they're producing as well.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, well, that's what I didn't want this segment to come across as.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You know, us being like, oh, well, you know, if you shop a Princess Polly, you're the worst person in the world. Because that's not the case.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And it's a very complex issue, I think, sustainability for all of us, because we are all in this world where the pressure is on us to always be wearing the trending thing, you know, looking a certain way. And all of us are feeling that pressure.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, totally. I cannot for the life of me remember the creator that had this tick tock. And it would have honestly been 12 or 18 months ago, but she got on and was talking about how she shops a lot from Uniqlo and from Kmart for workwear, because that's what she can, in her socioeconomic situation, afford. And how she felt so ostracised because of those choices, and that made her feel really guilty, but that she wants to present a certain way at work and show up. And I just would never want us to sit on here and anyone ever feel that shame. Because the choices that you make with what you have and your means are completely your own. And I know that I speak for all of us when I say that.

[Joanna Fleming]

So do I. Yep.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Never wanna come off that way if. If that's the position that you're in and the choice that you choose to make. Because there are a hierarchy of needs.

[Joanna Fleming]

Definitely.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, for sure. Well, that kind of segues us into the next headline, which is around what people in fashion actually wear.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And lucky we've got a fashion in resident expert with us.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, gosh, this one made me laugh.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You Guys, there was a recent article in Teen Vogue that explored something we've been seeing play out online a lot recently. And it's people's expectations of how people in fashion and the fashion industry dress and the fact that they aren't matching up to the fantasy that films like the Devil Wears Prada have created. And I mean, we know that the Devil Wears Prada too is being filmed, and that is live and underway right now. I think that's about 80 of my for you page right now. But there was a very recent TikTok from US Vogue, which I think is the perfect example. In it, there were a selection of staff that showcased what they were wearing to work that day. All cute, fashion conscious and office appropriate outfits, in my humble opinion. But the comments section was nasty.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

This surprised me so much.

[Joanna Fleming]

I feel like that was an understatement. It was savage.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, it was brutal. I'm gonna read out some of the comments to you. No one ate. Unfortunately. This is not giving Devil Wears Prada and go Girls give us nothing. That last time was kind of funny. It's so.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I thought these outfits were cool.

[Joanna Fleming]

I thought they were cute.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I think we need to put the link to this video in the episode notes so people could just go directly to it, have their opinion, because I think these outfits were cool. I don't know why it was getting this backlash.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, the thing is, as much as we love productions like the Devil Wears Prada, the reality is that film just does not accurately depict the average person working in the fashion industry and how they dress. And that kind of brings us to the Teen Vogue article. So in the article, editor and writer Ayanna Ishmael unpacks the Internet's obsession with what a person working in fashion dress is like, particularly in light of the Devil Wears Prada sequel, which is considered a staple in the fashion media space. She writes, my first time stepping into the glossy offices of Conde Nast was supposed to signify the start of my sartorial rise. It would be the beginning of becoming a fashion maven, someone worth remembering. It was only after my first week, when I saw crisp denim jeans, simple white cotton shirts, and sambas gazelles galore that I realized the image of the fashion industry was a mirage and that the truth about what it's like to work in media or design or PR was less tied up in what you wear to work every day. In reality, a lot of fashion creatives develop an everyday uniform of sorts of like the iconic Vogue editor Grace Coddington, literal hero of mine, adored everything she ever did. But aside from that. Or they're more drawn to pieces that fit within their carefully crafted personal style. Something that might, to people outside the industry read a little more untrendy. But people who work in the industry are often dressing for practicality, comfort, and their own taste, which means micro trends and aesthetic cause that the Internet loves so much don't actually feature. There's also the financial realities and hate to burst this bubble for anyone, but the fashion and beauty industry are not exactly synonymous with being the highest paying professions. This is by no means working in private equity. So it's a little unlikely that you will be rocking up in Chanel. Annika, you work in the fashion industry. You have an agency. What is your hot take on all of this?

[Joanna Fleming]

I honestly find this so funny. And I actually really find the Teen Vogue article of interest because when I first started out in the industry, I had this idea that I was going to work in fashion and be such a fashion it girl. Like, I was like, oh my God, every day it's going to be surrounded by glitz and glamour. And the reality was I was on minimum wage for like a lot of the start of my career. And yes, we had perks. We definitely got access to, you know, wholesale pricing. And with the industry, I guess you get a lot of gifting as well, which was a really hot perk. But it taught me how to really, I guess, be a bit savvy. And so I think it really helped me to develop my style blueprint as well, because I kind of realized how quickly the trends came into light. And yes, Mads, going back to your autumn, winter, spring, summer, we sold that many collections per year and there was always just such an overturn of products. So I did definitely saw, I guess at the same time how quick the industry moves. So realized really quickly to invest in accessories, and then I kind of made my outfits from there. But it just does make me laugh because I feel like people think, oh my God, you work in fashion, you must be head to toe designer, you must be this, you must be that. Fashion people are normal people. And a lot of the time, the people that are higher up in fashion as well, at the end of the day, it's a business. We are very analytical. We're numbers driven, we're data driven. And sometimes, like, I think people just expect us to be super, I don't know, decked out and like Prada this and that. It's just not the reality because unfortunately, a lot of people do go into this industry for the passion and it isn't a really high paying industry. Sure, if you work your way up, you can really, you know, get there in your career. But the reality is that we are just normal people. We might have a distinct kind of personal style, but I would say practicality, dressing for comfort, dressing for ease is something that we really hero at Sage. And even like in the business as well, we kind of put more emphasis on personal style than price tags.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, it's fascinating to me too though, because it's like when you love something, it usually does show. Do you know what I mean? Like, if you love makeup, you're probably going to wear it. But it is a funny paradox, right? Because I think there's a lot of adjacencies between fashion and beauty. And I worked in beauty, in corporate beauty for a really long time. I didn't really love wearing makeup and at one point found myself looking after the marketing of the entire makeup category. And I was like, I'm gonna learn how to use eyeshadow with my lipstick now. But it was a bit like that. I kind of felt that pressure of like, how would anyone take me seriously as someone, you know, speaking passionately about makeup or trend if I'm there in like a skin tint and a blush? And maybe I forgot mascara in the car that day. So I get why people. Maybe it loses a bit of the mystique for people, you know, the magic of. Oh. But I think it's that. But the reality is like, as much as I loved wearing a high heel, I was usually in back to back meetings just trying my best to get 20 minutes spare to run downstairs and get a sandwich and a coffee. Third coffee of the day from next door. So nine times out of 10, I was like in an ugly sneaker or like a ballet flat, just trying my best to get there as quickly as possible. Yeah, I don't think I would have matched anyone's expectations of what someone in the beauty industry should have looked.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And also the focus of this article is kind of around the Devil Wears Prada sequel, being why we have this illusion of what the US Vogue officers should look like and what these staff should look like and what they should be wearing. But I also think it's the get ready with me every day. And it's people that might be in a completely different tax bracket.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Showing off their corporate outfit that's, you know, head to toe Gucci or muumu. And it's like, well, the everyday person is not going to be buying a wardrobe full of designer to wear to work?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Ye.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I don't think it's relevant whether they work at US Vogue or not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

They're still going to have to work within their means in terms of their fashion budget, what they spend on clothes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And no matter where you work or who you work with, you have no idea of someone's situation. Whether it's generational wealth, household income. It's like, don't compare Susan to Steve. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's all different. I mean, as a total side note, I am a little bit sad that we're seeing all the outfits from the Devil Wears Prada. Because I think the magic of that production was that we got to experience it all for the first time when we were in the cinema. Yeah. And now I'm like, am I actually. Is there going to be a single outfit that I see? That is not a surprise.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm liking the sneak peeks. Yeah. I like it. I like being able to see what's coming up. It kind of gets me excited because the movie's not being released until, like, May next year.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So it's gonna be a long time before we actually do see it. And by then I'll have forgotten about it.

[Joanna Fleming]

I've gotta say, as well, I feel like from the little sneak peeks we have been seeing. Andy's style is kind of synonymous with. Do you guys remember when she. She finished up at Vogue in the original film? And she kind of went back to her roots a little bit more nondescript. And she was definitely a bit more refined and polished. But I feel like we're seeing this evolution of her now. And I actually do think, looking at the outfitting, there has been a lot of commentary about it being like, oh, this is boring. This is not vogified. Blah, blah, blah. But I actually think, as well, it's kind of going back to what we're seeing in actual reality. Like, people are wearing a bit more nondescript looks. I feel like, like, the designer, the label bashing, it's definitely slowed down. But if you're in the know, you know. So it's like that image of Meryl Streep. What's her name in this? Sorry, I should know this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Miranda Priestley.

[Joanna Fleming]

Sorry. Mrs. Miranda Priestly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

God, wash your mouth. I am not. What's her name again?

[Joanna Fleming]

What's her name? I feel like she had on the red Jacquemus. That's two times in these, like, last weeks that I've said that. But she had on the shoe. And if you know the shoe, you know the shoe. Then she had like a very simple outfit on with the snakeskin back, you know, the bag. And I think as well, the newcomers will be bringing the fashion, which makes me quite excited because it's going back to that bright eyed, bushy tail intern in the industry. You know, they really want to look the part. But the reality is no one's really wearing high heels in the industry when you're running around that much.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And it's a massive investment. When someone starts a corporate job, even if you're just starting out to get a couple of pieces, you go buy a blazer or a trench coat, a shirt, nice pair of pants. It can get really expensive.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The pressure can be on. I've worked in offices where with very different dress codes and it's very easy to feel like you need to rise up to a standard that we've all created for ourselves. It's awful.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think as well. Just going back to what you were saying earlier, Jo, there are so many different roles in fashion. There's a content side of it. There's, you know, the people who are actually front facing. Sure. If you're front facing and client facing, I should say maybe you should go the little extra mile, whatever that looks like for you. But it's really not an expectation anymore. And I think if anything that was an expectation, then people would have a lot to say about that as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, very interesting one. But I do fear that Steve Jobs really had a point with the turtleneck and the jeans and just he used to say that he didn't like having to pick an outfit because he felt like it could sometimes in the morning.

[Joanna Fleming]

It makes sense.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Not everyone has time to put together a slay outfit every morning. I personally hated doing that when I was going into an office, so I'm glad it's just activewear for me most days.

[Joanna Fleming]

Don't you ever forget that dressing gown, that fluffy dressing gown and a brown.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Tone active wear set. Listeners. Dan Murphy's is the place to go for what's new, what's yum, and what's trending when it comes to drinks. Maybe you're a bold red lover. Me too. Or maybe you prefer seasonal whites, craft beer or premixed cocktails. You do you whatever you're into. Dan's will help you find the next big thing in drinks and possibly your new favorite tipple. Plan ahead for this weekend online or in the app where you can browse styles, Dan's trending picks or head in store to find something new. Remember to drink wise. And thank you so much to Dan Murphy's for making this episode of Stylish possible.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

All right, it is time for opinions, please. Which obviously is where we weigh in on someone's dilemma that they might be experiencing today. It is all to do with the Europe shoe and what everyone is taking to Europe as their shoes to walk around, but also to be kind of like a fashion girly, you know? So the question today is from our listener, Naomi. Hi, girlies. I love listening every Wednesday on my commute home. So firstly, I want to say thank you for keeping me company. You're most welcome, Naomi. I'm headed to Europe for four weeks next month, and I'm really excited, but something I'm having trouble deciding is what pair of shoes to take. I only really have room for three, maybe four pairs of shoes. I want to be comfy, but I also want to look cute. What types of shoes would you recommend I bring? Thanks so much, Naomi. Jeremy, we can certainly help you here.

[Joanna Fleming]

You've come to the right place.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

This is one of my specialties. I feel. I can't tell you how many DMS I used to get about Europe shoes. When I went two years ago, I'm still getting, like, regular ones. Last year, a year after I'd been. I still get them now.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I did. I did a Q A after the inherited episode went live because a lot of people were, like, just messaging me.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes, a lot.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Which was lovely. Thanks for those. But overwhelming. What shoes did you take to New York? What shoes will you be taking to Europe?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Was like, I think we all get stuck on the shoe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

No one's ever asked me about my shoe. Should I be offended?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No. But I feel like you need to share.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, okay.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

What are your recommendations?

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. If I am picking three shoes, always a sneaker, like a sneaker is just an absolute must for me.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Give me a specific Essex. Okay.

[Joanna Fleming]

I live in my Essex and I also live in my New Balance. So those are two. And I mean, if we're feeling a little bouge, then I've got the new Balance.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yes.

[Joanna Fleming]

Collab as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm really glad you brought that up because just got my phone up because I wanted to say it. Yeah. They've been all over my for you page. But New Balance are launching 204Ls, which are basically just real one for ones for the MIU Mi.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Honestly, such a great investment because I paid top dollar for mine and those look just. I actually want to say better.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All right, what else is on the list.

[Joanna Fleming]

Okay. So you know, I've been crapping on about flip flops lately and we just can't get enough. Whether it's a flat, you know, classic Havana or a flip flop that has a platform or even a little kitten heel. I think this is actually a bonus swap for you, the dupe of the row without actually being the dupe of the row. So Source on no one have bought out a really cool flip flop that is the reverse of the red bottom. So the row has obviously got the red as the base and then it's like a black kind of toe thing. Yeah, I don't know what that's called. But anyway, they've done it reverse. So you've got the red toe thing and then the black base or they've done like the beige and the reverse as well. So I bought them recently, I think they were US$66. They are fantastic. But if you want to do the look for less, obviously Havana, even a Emory actually do a really nice chic like leather kind of thong.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, they're about 181.90.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. So still great. We love to support Aussies. And then for an evening option, I can't wear a heel anymore, you guys.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Like I'm done the bunions.

[Joanna Fleming]

I think it might be a bit of the bunions. Bit of age, just bit of lazy. I don't know. But I will do a wedge or a flat form. And so I've got the Tony Bianco suede. Actually, Mads, I got them cuz you always look super chic in them.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I call those my clocky mute.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I love those.

[Joanna Fleming]

I can honestly go from block areas, children. But like, you know, a Boozy lunch till 7am with those bad boys on.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, they got a real workout in New York. They were. They hit the pavement.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, they suit everything. So guys, maybe invest in those.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, a wedge is where it's at. If you're going to take a heel to Europe, in my opinion, because I am of the opinion you should not bother taking heels to Europe. Unless you've got a wedding to go to or some kind of formal event to go to. Mads, you're looking at me like Little.

[Joanna Fleming]

Miss Florence over there.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You're about to shun me for saying that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Just it's spoken from a taller tower.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm like three inches taller than you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And that would be the difference of a heel, wouldn't it?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

It's true.

[Joanna Fleming]

It actually. It makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

What else? Anything different to Annika's list.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Okay. So I have very specific sneakers I would take and they're the Aloha's TB490. I have the little beige pair that I absolutely love. Arnika actually got them for me.

[Joanna Fleming]

You are welcome.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

They're so comfortable. When I went to Paris at the start of the year, I wore them literally for the first and was just walking around Paris in them. No issues. Didn't even have to wear them in. They were great. Highly recommend those. And they also look cool as well. And they're very different to like a samba or a gazelle that everyone else has. So I feel like they're a little bit more unique. The slides that I would take, either holsters which look a lot like the rubber Birkenstocks.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Or I would take Archies and I've got a pair of their thongs. Adrian has their slides. A men's version for you as well. If you've got a man that you're taking with you. He had the. That wasn't dream.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Didn't you? Sorry listeners, just for those of you who don't. I spoke for us.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I just have to call out these particular sneakers. They're the on running Roger Advantage sneakers. They are unisex.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

But Adrian got them for Europe and he's had them ever since and they have lasted so well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

They're such a great pair of shoes and he just raves about how comfortable they are. And they look quite cool with any other outfit as well. Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Nice.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think on just in general, I probably I've gotten back into running. I cannot believe I've gotten Go girl podcast without mentioning that. Anyone who runs know they love to tell anyone about it. But ons are seriously well made runners. They are brilliant.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Crocs have also just started doing a platform slide which I think could be a good option. A little hybrid between a flat and. And a heel perhaps.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Cold day in hell for me personally. For someone else. You do you.

[Joanna Fleming]

Fair enough.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm not cool enough. Like you've got to know where you are on the cool scale to do a croc and I am so comfortable where I am knowing where I belong.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

What are your recommendations then? I also agree fully with the leather look thong. I would personally if I was going now I'd take Tony Bianco like leather.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know the ones kitten heel I wore.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, no. Wore them to death over summer.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You So I would definitely do a runner because I'm a big morning walker. I don't love.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, we didn't know.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. Well, I don't have a dog when I do it, and it makes me very uncomfortable. I usually hold a hot drink, and then when it's empty, I'll still hold the empty cup just so I look like I've got something.

[Joanna Fleming]

I so get that. That's a thing. Yeah, I have that thing.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel really strange. So I usually take my ons or my ass classics. I always take a pair of sneakers. Like, I would take those New Balance ones. I will get those and take them to Florence with me. I take a ballet flat or a loafer.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And that is usually because by day, like four or five, I don't know what's wrong with my feet. They get so beaten up. We kept calling me Sharon Strzelecki in New York because they were just. I was covered in so many blister band aids that at one point I was sitting in the reception and this woman next to me was like, y' all know your plastics are coming up? I was like, yeah, they're waving. It was criminal. So just like a little comfy ballet flat that you can really hit the pavement in. Like, I'm talking, you've got to be able to walk, like, three or four K's, like, to and from lunch vibes.

[Joanna Fleming]

And even on cobbled streets and just uneven surfaces. Yeah, that's a big one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. But you've got to make sure you check the base of that shoe because if it's got no grip to it. Oh, girl, you're gonna slip inside on those cobblestones. Yeah. This is really good. Just for me in the next few weeks as I get to ready. Heels, of course. One pair of heels. I am psychotic. I am five foot three. I constantly chase height. I love nothing more than being picked up. That's so strange to say as an adult. I was watching this TikTok the other.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Day that was, like, wondering where that's going.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It was like, bring back fun. Like, whenever anyone's like, piggybacks or like, I'm like, yeah, I want to be high. I want to be taller. Like, if there's a step, I'll step on it. I just want to be up and a little bit higher.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So for any men interested in Madison, she loves a shoulder ride.

[Joanna Fleming]

She literally wants to do Dirty Dancing. Let's reenact it. I've seen a video before. Bring it back.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I actually have done that at a wedding. Yeah, it wasn't mine, but there's actually a Tony Van Coastiletto that I have. Not quite 7am, but I did get to a hens until about 2:30. So I think they're great. And then I also do the sandal. I tried so hard to track down those Amaries before New York and I have deep regrets about not getting them in summer when they were available at a store up the road from me that have them. But I bought some from Atmos in here. I think it is.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And they were great. They were like $80. They're pure leather. They've done the job. And I also love the little transparent flip flops that Christopher Esba did.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have got some jupy ones from Elias May that were like 70 bucks.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God, I forgot I had those.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But the row dupes, they're going straight in my basket. I'm not going to lie. I'll be taking more than five shoes to Europe.

[Joanna Fleming]

You will be.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And she doesn't want to.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, well, do you know what, Naomi? Fantastic. I hope you're taller than 5 foot 3.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, don't take the heel, Naomi. Take it from me. Well, hopefully that was helpful, Naomi.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, lots of swaps for you there.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I hope you're not short. And if you are, just find someone to have your be back.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But that is all for this week's episode of Stylish. Thank you very much for joining us. And thanks very much to you, Annika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Joanna Fleming]

And you, Madison.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Some of them thought.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thank you so much. Such long names. E. Hyphenate, or are you keeping?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm gonna have to come on this podcast.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Gonna have to become a warm autumn or whatever.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

True autumn.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

True autumn. Yeah, I should know that. It's been mentioned enough. Don't forget that you can email us [e-mail] or you can slide into our DMS if you'd prefer, over at Stylish Pod. And we can't forget to thank our audio engineer, Liam Clayton and the Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. We will be right back with you next Wednesday.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Bye. Ciao.

[Joanna Fleming]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri Land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Foreign.

[D]

Here, host of Inherited. And you may know me as the producer of Everybody Has a Secret Too. My show, Inherited, explores the rules, rituals, relics and recipes we inherit that shape, who we are. And I have a very special guest joining me. You may know her from Stylish Podcast. It's Madison Sullivan Thorpe.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hi, Maddie. Hi, Ruby. What a treat. What an intro.

[D]

Oh, welcome to inherited. Mads, this really is the perfect opportunity for you guys to get to know Maddie on a new level. I want to talk about some of the things we touched on in our conversation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Mads? Yeah?

[D]

What did you love about our chat today?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Oh, I think I probably said it best at the beginning of the episode when I said, you know, I share so much, but I'm quite private, and I think I'm quite protective of that privacy and peace. But it's been like a little love letter to my 20s, having turned 30 recently and being able to reflect on, you know, a pretty big decade in my life. So I really loved being able to kind of honour those 20s and chat about them with you and share a side to me that maybe those listening to Stylish will find very different to our usual pace.

[D]

Yes, I'm sure they will love it. Thank you so much for being so open with me, Mads. I really appreciate. Here is a little snippet from our conversation.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was married, and I was very quickly unmarried, and I'm not gonna go into all of that, but no one gets married thinking they're not gonna be married, right?

[D]

Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And so I was married for less than a year. We were together for, God, maybe 11 or 12 years. And when I made the decision that my marriage was coming to an end, I rang five of my best girls and they came over that night, and one had a sushi platter, one had sheet masks, one had champagne. I think one brought, like, tea and, like, my favorite snacks that were like, you want to drink green tea? We'll drink green and peppermint tea. You want to get absolutely wasted. We can get wasted, but you've got to eat. So, like, here's your favorite thing to eat. And they are the most incredible people in my life. I get emotional about nothing the way I do about my girlfriends, because I feel think that the year of. I call it just the year of. It was just the rebuild year. I was just an absolute shell of a human, and I didn't really like going out. And I don't say that like, to a club. I mean, like, out of my home.

[D]

You can head over to the Inherited feed on your favorite podcast app, give us a review, and if you like the episode, share it with a friend as well. I'll be back with another episode next Tuesday.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

See you then.