Why you can’t stop talking about these two brands

Summary

Style-ish Podcast: "Why you can’t stop talking about these two brands"

Shameless Media | Episode Date: August 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Madison Sullivan Thorpe (“Mads”) and Rhiannon Joyce (“Ray”) deep dive into the appeal, strategies, and cultural resonance of two hot brands: the American minimalist beauty powerhouse Merit and the Australian “It Girl” fashion label With Jean. With a focus on real-world marketing insights, consumer behavior, and personal perspectives, the discussion unpacks how these brands have captured hearts (and wallets) across different demographics and markets.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Podcast Format & Episode Purpose

• [01:08] Rhiannon Joyce: Sets intent to use the space to “analyze the world of brands with cult followings, creative campaigns, fashion and beauty industry trends, and explore those 'how did they get there?' career stories.”
• Listeners range from marketing professionals to those outside the industry, all seeking insight.

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2. Word of the Week: Habit Stacking

• [02:55] Madison Sullivan Thorpe: Explores her “habit stacking” obsession, reflecting broader concerns about information overload.

  “The brain has never consumed more. You think about what we're exposed to. Devices that are in our hands. No generation before has had this much information all at once.” [03:40]

• Decision to listen to lighter, escapist content on walks instead of intense, business-related podcasts.

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3. Main Theme Transition: Two Breakout Brands

• Deep dives into Merit and With Jean — each with distinct audiences and approaches.

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Segment 1: MERIT – The Minimalist Beauty Brand

a. Merit’s Origin and Philosophy

• Founded by Catherine Power in 2021, known for previous ventures (Who What Wear, Versed skincare, Avaline wine).
• Inspired by necessity: as a busy professional, Power “saw a gap in the market for a makeup line that suited her needs as a 40-something busy professional.” [08:02]

  “The makeup on the market felt too heavy and too time consuming. So the solution, a line that delivered luxury, minimalism and ease with a side of clean beauty sensibilities.” – Ray [08:18]

b. Market Entry Strategies

• Expanded to UK (2023), Australia (2024).
• Unique entry model: forewent traditional retail partnerships (Mecca, Sephora, etc.), instead using a local PR agency (Leaf) for a highly localized launch.

  “It is very, very uncommon for a brand to launch with a website or international shipping or without a partnership with an Australian retailer… One thing they're doing really well is hiring a local PR agency.” – Mads [09:34]

c. Influencer & PR Tactics

• Focused on micro-influencers, heavy gifting, minimal paid partnerships in Australia.

  “It was hard for me to come by a video that had a paid partnership tag for them. So that says to me they are leaning in heavily to a gifting strategy. They're leaning in heavily to word of mouth.” – Ray [11:25]

• Strong, visually distinctive paid Meta (Facebook/Instagram) ads, often using the iconic "Merit bag" as a gift with purchase.

  “Very clever about their paid ads… A lot of the ads that I've been served have been free with every order over $75 or it'll be get the tote…” – Mads [12:28]

d. Demographic Targeting

• Unlike most beauty brands targeting Gen Z, Merit identifies its core consumer as women aged 30–50.

  “Catherine has gone on the record… our core demographic is aged between 30 to 50. I love that she is like all good. Happy for the Gen Z and Gen brands to fight it out… But Merit's like all good. We'll take the grown up girl.” – Mads [13:27]

e. Product Strategy

• “Disciplined and controlled,” with “not a huge array of products” and meticulously managed launches.

  “I would say each launch is a mammoth campaign in and of itself and they are very much fewer, bigger, better.” – Mads [14:27]

• Examples: “The Uniform” tinted SPF, upcoming cleanser, thoughtful PR mailers in collaboration with local brands (e.g., Baina towels).

f. Predictions & Brand Insights

• Speculation about expanding into retail (potential future partnership with Mecca).
• Experiential marketing suggested, like localized pop-ups: “‘Mornings with Merit’… little coffee carts dotted in major cities… chairs on hand… get their morning touch up, grab a Merit coffee.” – Mads [35:44]
• Quote from Merit CMO Ayla [33:49]:

  “If we removed our logo from a product or campaign, we want people to still know it’s Merit… Focusing on the core pillars of the brand while also taking the time to understand the certain nuances in different markets is pivotal to our global expansion and success.”

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Segment 2: WITH JEAN – The Viral Australian Fashion Brand

a. Celebrity Endorsement & Social Proof

• Explosive growth after Emily Ratajkowski and Dua Lipa were photographed in With Jean’s viral “Rose Top.”

  “Once they were papped wearing this viral rose top, it directly resulted in over 10,000 tops being sold… Total of 1.4 million plus revenue generated…” – Ray [20:39]

b. Social & DTC (Direct to Consumer) Strategy

• With Jean started in 2017 with only 9 styles and already over 1,000 waiting-list customers.

• Social-first mindset cemented the brand—Instagram and TikTok are essential even as the brand matures.

  “Sammy [founder] said, ‘We live in a content driven world... Consumers rely on seeing your product on someone else before committing to a purchase. That is something we recognized from the very beginning and still believe in to this day.’” – Ray [21:39]

• Founder Sammy Locking Turner continues to manage Instagram personally, keeping control and authenticity at the heart of their digital strategy.

  “I'm still a control freak over our Instagram. I post everything myself still to this day, but now the standard for content is on another level…” – Sammy (via Ray) [23:15]

c. Brand Appeal, Positioning, & Visuals

• Achieves a luxury, aspirational feel at a mid-lower price point (e.g., $99 tops) by using high-end campaign visuals, European locations, and “It Girl” styling.

  “The photography style of all of their campaign and… EDM imagery is very much in the vein of like a James Harvey, Kelly P. Johnson, like, it's super elevated and you're looking at a $99 top.” – Mads [26:02]

• Straddles dual market positioning: European summer content for Aussies on holiday, NYC for the US consumer.

  “How do you do dual market? ...Their content is very clever for playing into that European summer because you play into the Aussies on Eurovk and you play into the… US which is the market they are absolutely going after.” – Mads [27:27]

d. Flagship Store as Experience & Marketing

• SOHO, NYC flagship store: a prestige move to deepen relationships with US customers, not just to drive sales.

  “What it says is we are here and we have arrived in the US in a really big way and we're inviting our US customer to come in and explore our brand.” – Mads [28:44] “Opening the flagship store in Soho wasn't about entering the US market. It was about deepening a relationship that was already well established online.” – Ray [29:27]

e. Consumer Trends & Insights

• Gen Z drive: Gen Z are “42% more likely to impulse buy after seeing something on social media compared to other generations.” – [25:19]
• 85% of Gen Z surveyed cite price/value as key in online shopping.
• Importance of diversity and inclusion (noted as an ongoing challenge with limited size range up to XL/AU14).

f. Predictions

• Rae predicts a European or Hamptons pop-up is likely, leveraging the “holiday destination” aspirational trend.

  “I could really see With Jean following a similar sort of suit and having a presence in that market, particularly Italy or Mallorca in Spain, where a lot of young consumers are traveling.” – Ray [31:52]

• Mads suggests a collaboration with a major creator, referencing Frankie's Bikinis x Kylie Jenner:

  “I would be more inclined to think that it would be a large scale creator rather than a large scale celebrity.” – Mads [33:02]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On marketing to women in their 30s–50s:

  “All good. Happy for the Gen Z and Gen brands to fight it out… But Merit's like all good. We'll take the grown up girl.” – Madison Sullivan Thorpe [13:27]

• On influencer & gifting culture:

  “They're leaning in heavily to a gifting strategy. They're leaning in heavily to word of mouth.” – Rhiannon Joyce [11:25]

• On experiential retail as branding (With Jean):

  “It is very much a positioning piece… a marketing exercise just to have a brand presence and really, you know, stamp your passport to say we are here and we're global and international now.” – Madison [28:44]

• Brand DNA:

  “If we removed our logo… we want people to still know it’s Merit.” – CMO Ayla (read by Madison) [33:53]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:08 – Series format & intent
• 02:55 – 05:40 – “Habit stacking” & modern overwhelm
• 06:27 – Introduction of featured brands (Merit & With Jean)
• 08:02 – Merit’s origin story & founder’s motivation
• 09:34 – 14:27 – Deep dive: Merit's unique launch model, PR, and demographic targeting
• 16:58 – Merit's local activation (gifting suite, PR agency, diversity of creators)
• 17:47 – Predictions for Merit: Retail expansion, experiential marketing
• 19:35 – 26:41 – With Jean: Social- and celebrity-powered virality, pricing, founder insights
• 28:44 – With Jean’s Soho flagship as a brand statement
• 31:52 – 33:49 – Predictions: Euro/holiday pop-ups for With Jean, creator collab potential
• 33:49 – 38:02 – Predictions & strategy tips for Merit (Mecca retail, localized pop-ups, collabs)
• 38:48 – Episode wrap: Reflection on being consumers of the brands

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Merit and With Jean’s successes are deeply tied to clear core identities, disciplined launches, and a nuanced understanding of digital and real-world experience.
• Merit stands apart by refusing to chase Gen Z, betting instead on an “understated luxury for grown-ups” model—slow, localized expansion, tight product range, and authenticity-first influencer tactics.
• With Jean proves the explosive value of the right celebrity moment but stands on a foundation of constant, founder-driven digital storytelling and accessible-luxe aesthetics.
• Both brands excel at leveraging IRL (in real life) experiences—even if as loss leaders in retail—to cement emotional bonds with consumers.

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For More

• Send suggestions to [e-mail] or DM @StylishPod.
• Full transcript and past episodes available via Shameless Media and podcast apps.

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Summary by Style-ish Podcast Summarizer (AI). For full context and speaker nuance, listen to the episode in your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Foreign this episode of Stylish is brought to you by Bioderma, celebrating 30 years of the iconic Sensibio H2O micellar water, the rinse free cleanser that instantly soothes and respects the skin's balance.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Hello and welcome to our new Fortnightly episode from Stylish. That's right, we are giving you more sty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe and my co host is Rhiannon Joyce.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Hello. I'm back.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You're back. You're a regular now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I'm regular.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

If you missed our debut episode earlier this month, here's a little rundown of what we'll be covering in our new fortnightly Friday episodes. Many of you know and love our weekly Stylish episodes and we love you for listening, but we did want to create a space for Ray and I to deep dive on all things brand. Think of it like this. Our Wednesday episodes lean a little more heavily into the beauty, fashion and lifestyle space. And these ones lean a little bit more into brand.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. So what is actually different about these apps? We'll be analyzing the world of brands with cult followings, creative campaigns that capture global attention, fashion and beauty industry trends, and explore those how did they get their career stories? So this is honestly something that Mads and I talk about a lot off Mike and we're so excited to bring behind the mic and share with you guys because judging by the first episode, you're as keen on this as much as we are.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Firstly, thank you so much to everyone who did listen. It was really, really lovely. Ray and I did catch up to celebrate on the Friday night and have a little vino together. And now what we know is true is that people want more career stories, more brand chat. Lots of people saying, fellow marketing girly here, pleased to have you both. So we're super excited.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

But also a lot of people who aren't actually in the marketing industry. I had so many dms from people who are nurses and work in completely unrelated industries who really found the compet conversations that we were having behind the mic and talking about our career journeys really helpful and inspiring. So that was equally as nice because I feel like we're tapping into all corners, not just the marketing girlies.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And a friend of mine put it really well when she said that she really liked just hearing about our careers. She said she feels like a lot of podcasts cover founders, but hearing from people who have what people might perceive to be cool or interesting jobs. I'm using strong inverted. You're so uncomfortable saying that Absolutely. We're really good at sound effects, folks, but I thought that was, like, super interesting as well and maybe a little. Little tidbit in there for us.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

No, that's really nice. I honestly didn't think about that. Yeah, I love when people come to you with feedback that you didn't think about. So thank you so much, Miranda's friends, Miranda.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks. Maddie's friend, Miranda.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right, so we're going to kick off each episode with a word of the week. What's your word of the week?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

My word of the week is habit stacking, and I'm getting served a lot of this on my algorithm. It's like my TikTok knows that I'm trying to make use of every waking, but it's the idea that you have a habit that you're already doing and then you stack a new habit onto it. So I feel like the most common one at the moment is people going for a walk or a run or driving and using ChatGPT or another form of AI to basically speak to it, have it be building out ideas into synchronized fashion. And I was so guilty of this for quite a few months. And then I got served another TikTok, which was about the dangers of habit stacking and how the brain is. Is going into, like, cognitive overload. And I was like, it's the idea that in the current climate, the brain has never consumed more. You think about what we're exposed to, devices that are in our hands. No generation before has had this much information all at once. So what this TikTok was saying, and I cannot for the life of me remember the creator, I will try and dig it out. But it was saying, like, the brain is so overloaded, it needs time to rest and restore. So your brain is not getting the time it needs just to focus on exercise, rest, and restoration. And so I'm making a conscious effort at the moment to lessen some of the habit stacking that I really got into this year.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

How are you doing that? What are the habits you're changing?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So I walk my dog every morning and night, shout out to George. But I am now only allowed to listen to podcasts that are about pop culture because they're shameless media shout out. But things that are, like, essentially just mindless, I don't really have to think about them. Like, I'm, you know, I mean that in a really lovingly way. I don't have to be dissecting how a business grew. Like, acquired is not the podcast for me to listen to on a walk.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay. I love this. How I would capture that instead of it being mindless. I've got a few for you. It's about entertainment and escape, not mindless.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Because, you know, Sara and Mish, I love you both dearly. You're my favorite podcast in the whole world. You're the first podcast I ever bloody listened to. So, yes, Escapism, entertainment, joy, love. And that's the thing. When I listen to Shameless, it feels light, it feels easy, it feels fun. When I listen to a playlist that is so eclectic, it hurts. It's just about escaping and just enjoying that and it being really, like, meditative almost. Whereas if I'm listening to something like Acquired, or I'm listening to something like Inherited, that's deeply emotional or that requires a lot of brain power, that is. No, I'm stacking too much.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So good. To give context. I'm doing this. I need to do this because I'm so guilty of this as well. Mads. Yeah. Oh, I've got demons.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know. But we're all. We're all trying to fit as much into the day. And in the era of girl bosses and of having side hustles and doing all the things I know, we're all guilty of it because we've all done it. So that's just my conscious little word. It's what's on my brain this week.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That was a really good word of the week. I love the direction that we're going with this and how it varies.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, completely.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Okay, let's get into today's episode. So today's episode will be all about the brands you and we can't stop talking about. We'll be doing a deep dive into what it is about these brands that stands apart in the fashion and beauty industry, a famously overcrowded and hyper competitive market. The first brand we'll be exploring is the American beauty brand Merit. So this one was actually submitted by you guys on socials. We asked what brands are catching your attention lately, and a lot of you said Merit.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The second brand is one that Rae and I have chosen, and it was off the back of a lot of homegrown, talented designers and brands that were submitted, but it is with Jane, a homegrown fashion label that's really been going from strength to strength in recent years, both here and on the global stage, and has very fast become the it girl aesthetic. So should we dive in?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Let's go up top. I do want to address that. We have both received gifting from Merit, but this episode is in no Way sponsored by Merit and our opinions are entirely our own.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Always, always.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

You guys know that we really value transparency, so wanted to just kick off with that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We cannot be bought.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So Merit, as we said, was one of the brands you, our listeners wanted to hear about. It came up quite a lot in the DMs. It is actually a fast growing beauty brand. And in 2023 Merit expanded into the UK and it reportedly doubled its UK revenue projections in its first year.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So a lot of you might be thinking, where did Merit come from? What's the magic behind it? So we thought we'd go into a little bit of the background before we went into the deep dive. So for those who don't know, Merit was founded in 2021 by a woman by the name of Catherine Powers. She's a serial entrepreneur. She founded pretty impressive array of brands including online fashion publication who what where affordable skin care line Versed and Avalon, an organic wine brand that she created with one of my personal OG like it girls, Cameron Diaz.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I agree, that's quite a run sheet of achievements.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I love the diversity of that run sheet as well.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, it's not what you would usually expect from a brand founder. Usually they would stick to one category. Category. So yeah, obviously a lot of depth there. According to Zara Wong substack screenshot this, she first dreamed up merit back in 2017 because she saw a gap in the market for a makeup line that suited her needs as a 40 something busy professional. It was actually 2017 and power was starting to think about what this dream line could be and what it definitely wasn't. The makeup on the market felt too heavy and too time consuming. So the solution, a line that delivered luxury, minimalism and ease with a side of clean beauty sensibilities. I mean, don't want to jump ahead too much, but that perfectly encapsulates how I perceive the brand. Do you feel like that is how you perceive the brand, Mads?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. It feels like the glossier grown up brand. It's minimal, it's clean girl esthetic. They launched in Australia in September 2024. And Ray, we've spent a lot of time dissecting this because Merit really rewrote the playbook of how an international brand, particularly a US brand of their size and scale, launches into Australia.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Mads, you and I have spoken about this so so much as you said. But the reason why I'm so excited for the listeners to hear us talk about this chat behind the Mark and is because I know firsthand from what you told me, the Interesting insights you can add being someone who has had a long standing career in beauty and how much, I guess behind the scenes or context you've been able to give me around some of Merit's decision making about their launch into Australia. So I'm really excited for you to share a bit of the colour.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. And there's so much color. What I can't emphasize enough is that it is very, very uncommon for a brand to launch with a website or international shipping or without a partnership with an Australian retailer. And when I say a partnership with an Australian retailer, I'm talking the likes of Priceline, Chemist, Warehouse Mecca, Sephora, Maya, David Jones. Usually when you think of any global brand, think Mac, think Hourglass, think Bobbi Brown, think Bubble, think Cerave. Like all of these global brands have launched with a partner and a retail presence for their entry into our market. One thing they're doing really well is hiring a local PR agency. So what a lot of brands will do and global brands is they will partner with a global PR agency and they will pick that agency and say, go and do a global rollout for us. Now that works incredibly well in some instances. For example, Rhode work really closely with DT Consulting and that is clearly working very well for them. I mean, it also does help when Hailey Bieber is, you know, behind the brand. But a lot of brands will go, okay, that's our PR agency. And those agency relationships can be really challenging. It's bringing someone on to understand your brand and hope that they're able to translate that vision with the press that they're engaging with the influencers and content creators they're working with. So it makes sense that a lot of brands like to have that as a relationship across all markets. But I do personally think that a localized agency or account manager is really important. So what I think they've done really well is partnering with Leaf and going, you know that market. We trust you to trust your market and know it by the back of your hand and shout out to Leaf. I think they've done an incredible job at getting merit into the kind of merit girl's hands.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

And I want to talk about the merit girl for a second because one thing I've noticed through my own perception of the brand and consumption of content, both in a paid and non sponsored capacity. And when I say paid, sorry, as in paid ads I've seen on social, not me being paid. Yeah, by the brand. What I've noticed is they don't appear to work with a lot of really big influencers in the Australian media landscape. I did a really quick search on TikTok before we came into this recording to really see who are they working with. A lot of micro influencers, a lot of people who I have perhaps been gifted the product and have not been sponsored to do the videos. It was hard for me to come by a video that had a paid partnership tag for them. So that says to me they are leaning in heavily to a gifting strategy. They're leaning in heavily to word of mouth.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

One thing that I really find interesting at moment, at the moment as well with Merit is that's their approach from an influencer strategy perspective, or so it appears to me. Yeah, they go heavy on the sponsored paid meta ads. Have you noticed this?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like heavy. Very clever about their paid ads too. If you don't know this about Merit, there is kind of this iconic merit bag that comes with every order. A lot of the ads that I've been served have been free with every order over $75 or it'll be get the tote if you're doing, you know, a $150 order.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

If you haven't seen this bag yet, it's like a tan corduroy looking bag. It's a very chic bag to get.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Free with your order, which everybody loves a freebie. I always say you're not in the business of enjoying a little present at checkout. Something's wrong. Like you're making too much money if you don't enjoy a little prezi at checkout.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What I also found interesting looking into this episode and doing the research was their core demographic. So most brands as we know right now are really going hard after that Gen Z millennial audience. Interestingly, Merit has identified their primary consumer as being in their 30s to 50s. So they're skewing a little bit older. What's your take on that?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's so interesting to me because I can almost guarantee that 90% of beauty brands are sitting in rooms talking Gen A and Gen Z. It's like we need the next generation. Every business of fashion article you read, everything from the New York Times is like Gen Z are fueling growth. And Catherine has gone on the Record interviewed saying our core demographic is aged between 30 to 50. I love that she is like all good. Happy for the Gen Z and Gen brands to fight it out and those brands to fight for that customer. And they're doing an exceptional job. Right. Look at a brand like Summer Fridays. They have that Gen Z consumer wrapped around their finger. Good on them. But Merit's like All good. We'll take the grown up girl.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It also comes back to our point earlier referencing Zara Wong substack. That was their intention when establishing this brand. It was a makeup line that suited her needs as a 40 something business professional. So she has also, you know, self identify her needs and her challenges or what she's not getting out of makeup and created a product that resolves that challenge and also a lot of other women's as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I always love when a founder has created a product for their own market of which they're a part of. There are many founders who have successful businesses that don't do that and I. I'm not yucking that. Yum. I'm just saying it is really nice when a customer identifies the gap themselves for themselves that they then go and create the product for because ultimately they inherently know what it needs to be because they need it. As we mentioned, Catherine created products that were totally for her user friendly, minimalist, both in their efficacy but also the packaging and branding. But they have been very disciplined and controlled in their launch strategy. I in my humble opinion, because there are not a huge array of products in that lineup and I would say each launch is a mammoth campaign in and of itself and they are very much fewer, bigger, better. I can name two launches in the last 12 months from merit. One is the uniform, their tinted SPF product and the other is their soon to be released cleanser. But what they do when they send these press releases, this is not a singular product rattling around in a box. These are well thought of PR mailers. Talk about hilarious timing. I actually had the Merit Great Skin Double Cleanse press mailer arrive quite literally this morning at my office and quite a genius mailer. They've sent it alongside the rest of their skincare lineup and they've also collaborated with Bainer, which is a New Zealand towel sort of homewares brand. And they've done these two custom washes within the mailer. And I love a clever PR mailer and I thought this was genius.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

What's great about that as well is they've worked with a local brand. Being New Zealand, it's also very popular in Australia. I just love when they opt for a brand that is local instead of it being someone from overseas that doesn't have that connection with our consumer.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And Bayna I would say resonates very well with a millennial customer.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Very much so.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was really surprised when they did their gifting suite here at the number of people they had through that door. And also the fact they did that in the first place, they flew team out here. It would have been very easy for them to have LEAF run that LEAF speak to the product. But the reality is a PR agency can rarely. I'm so sorry, PR girlies speak to the brand the way that someone who works in a brand. 24 7, Ken. And so they sent their press team here and I was, like, very impressed and shocked by that. What did you make of all of that?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

From what I saw on Socials was very intimate. It was very thoughtful. But as I said before, there was a lot of depth in the types of creators that they invited. A great level of diversity as well, which in the Australian media landscape I think is very important and sometimes amiss that beauty brands don't get.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Right.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. So that was also great to see. I'm really curious to see where the brand goes from here, because, as you said, they don't have a lot of launches or product innovation as much as their competitors are. And I'm really curious to see how honing in on that older demographic serves them in the long term. I think it'll be really interesting to see how that strategy continues and if they look to introduce or innovate new products, or will they focus on specific products in the Australian market that would bode well for the Australian climate or the Australian consumer that perhaps don't in other international markets.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, incredibly intrigued to see that. And also whether they do expand into retailer. While the strategy to launch here was obviously fuelled off the back of appetite or searches on their website, I would be surprised if they weren't simultaneously having retailer discussions based on the publicity, the website traffic that they've garnered since launching.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So Mads and I will actually be giving our own predictions at the end of this episode on where we think merit and with Jean will be going next. But first, you'll hear from today's sponsor and then we'll get into our segment about. With Jean, you know how there are some beauty products you never let yourself run out of? Maybe you'll even buy two at a time, so you'll never run out. I've got a few in my rotation, but one that's been a constant for years is the Bioderma Sensibio H2O micellar water cleanser. It's an icon, and I'm definitely not the only one who thinks so. In fact, one bottle is sold every second around the world. It's been a staple for 30 years now, originally becoming a backstage must have at fashion weeks in the 90s makeup artists love how effectively it removed makeup without disrupting the model's skin. The science behind it's just as impressive. Its ingredients mimic the skin's natural composition, while the micelles act like tiny magnets to draw away makeup and impurities. So it's incredibly effective and gentle, even on sensitive skin, which is why it's also a favorite for dermatologists. Celebrate 30 years of care with Bioderma Sensevar H2O micellar water. Available now at leading pharmacies and beauty retailers, including Adore, Beauty Chemist Warehouse, Priceline and more. So you never have to go without. Thank you so much to Bioderma for making this episode of Stylish possible. Now, moving on to our second brand. We cannot stop talking about With Jean. I would argue they're one of the most prominent brands on social media and particularly amongst a Gen Z audience. And total contrast, total contrast from what we just spoke about with Merit, which is great because I feel like we're hitting different ends of the spectrum. But what I love most about With Jean, they're from our own backyard.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We love homegrown.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Homegrown.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I am so patriotic when I go overseas about Australian brands. And let me tell you, when I was in New York, this brand was being spoken about so much and I felt an immense amount of pride. I was like, go off Aussie girls.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, I'm the same. There are a few Australian brands that are really dominating the US and With Jean is absolutely one of them. We actually have some really, really strong quotes from the founder to support that. They're doing well over there, but we'll get into that a later. But I want to kick off first with a really interesting insight that we came across when researching for this episode. So with Gene, founders actually shared with Vogue in 2024, the moment Emily Rajikowski and Dua Lipa were popped wearing their viral rose top. I feel like I don't even need to explain what that top looks like. Everyone knows what it is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But we will put a link in the show notes if you don't.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So once they were papped wearing this viral rose top, it directly resulted in over 10,000 tops being sold. That is insane.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you want to break down the math of how I'm going to do the math?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That was so quick. Maths. The top retails currently for 149aud. So a total of 1.4 million plus revenue was generated from a single top being sold. That is extraordinary. I did see both founders speak to Vogue and they said seeing those girls in Our pieces is incredibly exciting and so nice to see such influential figures embrace our brand. Celebrity exposure like this definitely helps elevate the brand's profile and reach a broader audience audience. I think that just gives you really good context.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I have a feeling both Emily Ratajkowski and Dua Lipa have a discount code for life.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

God, you would hope so.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Gifting 100 free.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. I also just want to be really clear as well when I'm speaking about revenue. That's not profit. So they obviously had to go in and pay their salaries, shipping, all of.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The cost of the product, cost of.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

The product, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, as a standard revenue figure, that is super impressive. We were actually lucky enough to speak to one of the founders, Sammy Locking Turner, to provide us with some context supporting how much the celebrity endorsement but also people just wearing their product in general on social media was essential in their social media strategy and for the brand to be successful. So Sammy said, we live in a content driven world. Consumers rely on seeing your product on someone else before committing to a purchase. That is something we recognize from the very beginning and still believe in to this day. You've just said earlier on in the piece that you feel like you saw this brand everywhere in the US Was it mostly content creators or people in real life?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It was definitely in real life and I had the pleasure of hanging out with a lot of Aussies who I guess have built profiles over there now, probably more so in the brand founder space rather than creators, but feel like brand founders are the new content creators now. So they kind of go hand in hand. But a lot of us were just saying how it was popping off that open their soho flagship, which I know we're going to talk about that, but it was very much this was the it girl and Americans are looking to Australians for what's cool. Like even going on TikTok and reading some of the comments sections, it is very much like what makeup are we using? How are we doing our hair? Who are we wearing? What are we wearing? UK and us are looking to us, which is a very different thing versus what has previously been. But it was definitely Aussie Z saying that their American friends and communities were like you guys with Jane and St. Agne was the other that were like those two brands are popping off here.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, that's really interesting. I always find it fascinating when you have someone like a really famous celebrity like Emily Rajikowski or Dua Lipa wear a top and people think, oh, that viral moment is the thing that made this brand successful. But what I found really interesting in the research with with Gene is that social media has been an integral part of their strategy for a very long time. But even before Emily Rajikowski and Dua Lipa wore the viral rose top, things were boding really well for the label from the very beginning. And the reason for that is their social strategy and their ability to understand their customer. So they actually launched with Jean in July 2017 with a collection of nine styles. They had a waitlist of over 1,000 customers. So there was definitely appetite and a preexisting audience that they were able to build early on. That direct to consumer strategy was really strong. Sammy also added some context about how that social strategy has shifted. Because if we're being honest, you know, back then that was really an anomaly and they were building their relationship with their customers online. No one was doing that. They were one of the only brands that were really doing that. I would one that comes top of mind is Triangle Swimwear as well in that timeline nowadays everyone is doing it as we've just spoken about Merit's doing as well. So Sammy also added some interesting color about how their social strategy has shifted. Sammy said to us, the way we approach it has definitely evolved. I'm still a control freak over our Instagram. I post everything myself still to this day, but now the standard for content is on another level to what it was in 2017. These days we're thinking about the entire journey from someone discovering us on Instagram or TikTok to walking into a store, to the unboxing moment. We've added layers with storytelling campaigns, retail events and partnerships. But that direct connection with our audience is still at the heart of it. So it's really interesting that social still plays such an important role. I feel like my main takeout from that is that it is still really prominent and rightfully so. At the time of recording, they have just over 600000 followers and a huge portion of their following is in fact Gen Z. I do want to build on this with my own insight. I know I spoke about this in the previous episode, but we work with Starburst insights across all of the shameless media consumer insight studies that we do. So Starbursts recently shared their Style Shift research study. So this was an independent study that they conducted and one of the key stats I took from this was gen Z are 42% more likely to impulse buy after seeing something on social media compared to other generations. And in conjunction, 85% of those who were surveyed agreed that price and value mattered most when online shopping. So when you consider what we know about with jeans, it girl brand positioning amongst Gen Z and what Sammy, their founder, has shared with us, paired with these industry insights, it seems like they've created the perfect storm, but with a positive twist.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Totally. And you can see this as a consumer. I look at their content and their price point does not match their content. Their content is super elevated. It's really aspirational. It speaks definitely to a Gen Z. As someone who is. I'm what some might call a cuspy. So I think I'm like a year off being a Gen Z, but like very much identify in the millennial space. But it feels very Gen Z. But it is super elevated. The photography style of all of their campaign and you know, EDM imagery is very much in the vein of like a James Harvey, Kelly P. Johnson, like it's super elevated and you're looking at a $99 top.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's also the locations of where they're shooting. They're very Europe centric. You know, they're shooting in Mallorca, Ibiza, even in New York itself. The pockets of New York that they're shooting in are very aspirational. So I think they've been very considered about the look and feel that they're trying to perpetuate on social media and how that product is positioned. I would say that it is a holiday skewed product in some ways. I feel like what's interesting now on social media, they're straddling two worlds. The European holiday vacay look. But then they're also straddling the weekend. Nice jeans and a top combination. You're hitting the town with your girlfriends, you're having a drink, you know it's taking you all the way through the night. That sort of not party girl esque vein. But it's got a little bit of party girl in it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's a bit bar. It's the girls going to the bar, not the club. She's going to the bar, she's going to the bar. Bar or the pub. What I love about it as well, and what is really challenging for a lot of international brands is how do you do dual market? They're homegrown here in Australia right now we're in the depths of winter and they're cracking the US market in a really big way who are in the depths of summer. And their content is very clever for playing into that European summer because you play into the Aussies on Eurovk and you play into the fact that it is middle of summer for the us which is the market they are absolutely going after. And it is a lot cheaper to go to Europe from the US than it is from Australia. So, you know, those in the US are doing it too.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Many of us are creatures of habit when it comes to our style, our makeup, even what we drink. But Dan Murphy's is inspiring us to try something different with a range of new and trending drinks in store. The perfect addition to your girls night or whenever you want to mix it up. These are the next big things in drinks like the new Stone and Wood Citrus Rattler, which is a beer infused with lemon similar to a spritz. Drop into Dan Murphy's In Store online or on the app to find out what everyone's drinking and remember to drink wise. Thank you so much to Dan Murphy's making this episode of stylish possible. They have also opened up their first flagship store in Soho, which is no.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Small fee, no small feat. And what I find so brilliant about this is it is very much a positioning piece. There are a lot of brands that will open a flagship in a space like Soho where they will be lucky to break even. It is like a marketing exercise just to have a brand presence and really, you know, stamp your passport to say we are here and we're global and international now. So I would be very surprised if that store was making them bulk cash because the rent in Soho is arguably one of the most expensive pieces of retail rent in the world. But what it says is we are here and we have arrived in the US in a really big way and we're inviting our US customer to come in and explore our brand.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Well, that's it, right? It is a great way to deepen that connection with a US customer and give them an experience with the brand that you actually cannot get online in store. Retailers experience I do think is having a comeback and people are looking for that really tangible touch feel, you know, even the store itself and how much people are investing in the look and feel and the design. People want that experience firsthand. Sammy also told us that opening the flagship store in Soho wasn't about entering the US market. It was about deepening a relationship that was already well established online. So again, it comes back to that point about we are already here. We've been connecting with this consumer, we've been listening to them, we've been able to have that connection through social media. Now we're just elevating that and giving them more so that they can deepen it. I think it's very impressive.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's so impressive. And remember as well, a store now is a content studio. It is a space for customers to come and create their own content. It's a space for the brand to create content from. It is genius marketing and I will forever be a fan of a brick and mortar retailer. Like, hello, we've just seen the Mecca that has opened. Like the proof is in the pudding. Customers still love to go in store and discover, shop and play. Re we have no shame about making predictions or unsolicited recommendations to brands. Usually it's just while we're in the car driving somewhere. But what would be your predictions for with Jean?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

For with Jean, there is one prediction that feels quite obvious to me. Given that they've really committed to this, straddling the two markets, the euro summer vibes and the U.S. i think there is scope for them to be doing a pop up of some sort in a holiday destination. Now this is not a new concept. This is something that a lot of luxury brands have been doing for a very long time. This past European summer, we've had Jacquesmus pop up in the south of France. We have had, you know, Jacquemus also pop up in Ibiza, Chanel, Dior, all of these brands have been popping up in Europe and really investing in this immersive experience. What's interesting though is it's not just reserved for the luxury brands and it is starting to trickle down into the more accessible brands. We've seen Van Roy pop up in Capri. Yeah. You know, I could really see with Jean following a similar sort of suit and having a presence in that market, particularly Italy or Mallorca.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

In Spain, where a lot of young consumers are traveling to these areas.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I could also see them doing the Hamptons if they wanted to stay in the us that could be super cute.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yes. Venroy's also done the Hamptons and Van Roy's also had a pop up in Soho.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So that's an interesting wonder if with Jean, I'm maybe just following along closely. I mean, it's a good blueprint to be following potentially.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I also think, as you said, it's a branding opportunity. The content that they can capture in these markets and how they can, you know, really leverage that aesthetic. One thing I do want to flag with witching is a lot of that aesthetic and it girl imagery is tied to a thinner woman. You know, we're seeing a certain type of body shape appear in a lot of their content and that is also reflected in their size range. Their size range only goes up to an xl, which, according to with Jean's size chart displayed on their website, converts to an Australian size 14. Listen, there is a lot of variation in sizing, but traditionally in Australia, an Excel would more likely be a 16. It will be interesting if they're committed to this US expansion, how they could potentially change as well and introduce more sizes. I would like to see more size diversity in their product range, but time will tell. Mads, what's your prediction?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I wouldn't be surprised as well if we saw a little bit of a collaboration for them with like a pretty big name, because it does feel like they've seen the power of that celebrity status. But I would be more inclined to think that it would be a large scale creator rather than a large scale celebrity.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah, and that strategy works really well. I can't remember what the brand is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Frankie's with Kylie Jenner. Yes.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

So Frankie's the bikini brand that Kylie Jenner and so Gigi had did and Bala did. Yes. They've all done it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They're like, let's get the sisters and the. The most famous of the Jenners.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I could definitely say that working for them, similar audience as well. Frankie's is also huge in the us so that could definitely bode well for them. All right, let's move on to merit. Mads, what is your merit prediction?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, so before I get into my prediction, one thing I do want to call out is that we did also get some quotes from Merit. Cmo. Ayla who? You know what, Isla, if you're listening, God, you do a good job. Well done, girl. You are earning every cent. But we have this great quote from her and I'm. Bear with me while I read it. But Isla said one of the things we talk about is the idea of if we removed our logo from a product or campaign, we want people to still know it's merit that has driven us to build the world of merit, which includes our products, but also visual identity, tone of voice, the way we show up as a brand. We want the strong brand identity to show up no matter what country you find us in. So while specific tactics might shift in different regions, the core of the brand is quite universal. Focusing on the core pillars of the brand while also taking the time to understand the certain nuances in different markets is pivotal to our global expansion and success.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, bang, bang, bang. You've spoken about this the entire episode. That localization piece and how important that is.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's layering that with the universality of the brand and universe you are creating for it. So I loved that quote from her. For me, my predictions for them, I have a couple. One is much like with Jane, I'm a big fan of pop up and experiential retail. While I think they've done such a great job with the press and creator community, I would love to see them capture some of that customer community. So Merit, I've actually come up with a concept for you. You're welcome. But it was like a little mornings with Merit. If your whole concep concept is this under five minute makeup, no makeup makeup. Have little coffee carts dotted in major cities where there's chairs on hand for people to come in, get their little morning touch up, grab a little Merit coffee, have the brand available to shop, create a little world of merit that customers can go in and explore. That is only if you're not willing to go into retail.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Yeah. I think the location is critical as well for where you have these pop ups to take to that next level of, you know, kind of putting your money where your mouth is and how you want the consumer to experience that product. That five minute get ready. If they focus on more CBD high street areas as well where people are coming into that commute space, I feel like that would be really cool.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Feels a bit more on brand for.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

That brand on the way to work. I would love that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And Summer Fridays did a pop up at the beginning of this year at Bondi. That's fantastic. It's so on brand for them. If Merit did Bondi Beach, I don't think it's on brand.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

Unpopular opinion. I'm done with Bondi Beach.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes. And I do not want to see another AI Floating device over Bondi beach ever again. I'm saying it. I'm sorry to every brand who's done it. I'm sure it was great at the time, but I don't want to see any more of them. I've had enough now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We're done.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's my hot take. But I would be very surprised if we did not see Merit in a retailer in the next 18 to 24 months. And if Merit came to me as a consultant and asked me for my humble opinion, I would tell them that Mecca is the retailer for them.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I don't think anyone would argue with that.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I think Sephora is not right for them. My view is Sephora are doing a really great job in color cosmetics right now with that Gen Z customer. I think with Rare Fenty with Patrick Ta, it's Not to say they're not capturing the millennial. I just think they're bringing in a strong Gen Z. Where I think Mecca have the heartland is in the millennial customer. And I think Merit would swim perfectly in that ocean as a lower alternative to brands like Westman Atelier that maybe people are needing to do a little bit more high, low in the current economic climate. I think it's a great brand for customers who might be growing up and wanting something a little bit more sophisticated to be pulling out of their bag for, you know, the likes of something like a Charlotte Tilbury to be moving into a Merit. I think Merit would be right at home within Mecca.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

It's also about the location of the stores. Focus more on those high street areas. You know, your high street, Armidale, James street in Brisbane. You're generally, in my opinion, getting a very personalized experience. But I would say that a lot of the customers that are going through there are generally that older demographic as well, where they're really seeking out that expertise and that one on one experience that they can get with no distractions and feeling like they're very immersed in a brand. I think that would be a great opportunity for Merit.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I agree that guidance is totally necessary. And then my last recommendation for you, Merit, God, I'm working for free at this rate, is I think a partnership with a local brand that has an international presence or would be what I would call a double bullseye. So for me, it would be Saint Agni. I think Saint Agnes is a brand that has a later Gen Z, but is very much a millennial heartland. It's aspirational, it's global scale now, big presence in the US but very much still homegrown brand. I think that would be a perfect brand for them to be aligning with when they're doing a show or a campaign or just an Agni design one of the bags that they do for a limited collection. Like there's ways that they can cross over while winning in the US and also, you know, winning here in the AU market.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

There's some great ideas. Mads, you need to invoice Merit.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'll. I'll let you know when. Where to, Bill?

[Rhiannon Joyce]

All right, guys, and that's all for our fortnightly episode of Stylish, focusing on brand and marketing. Thank you so much for joining us and of course, thank you, Mads.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Thanks, Ray. Thanks for tag teaming this one. We, we've spent a lot of time talking about these two brands a lot, a lot. And we're both consumers of them. You wore with Jean to your hands.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I did, yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I've got a merit blush on right now.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

I mean, you have to experience the brand firsthand to be able to have this many opinions about it.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

If you've got any more brands you want us to cover or you have any other ideas, we do love hearing from you, so please do feel free to drop us an email [e-mail] if you can't be bothered emailing, you can also slide into our DMs over at TylishPod. And we also can't forget to thank our lovely Shameless media team, head of podcast, Lucy Hunt and our senior podcast producer, Kate Emma Burke.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

We'll be back with you in a fortnight. See you guys.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Bye.

[Rhiannon Joyce]

This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Ruby]

Hello, it's Ruby here, the host of Inherited, and I'm popping up to tell you about my conversation with award winning writer La Lech Blaine. I spoke to Lech about his idiosyncratic upbringing and the Christian fanatics who tried to kidnap his foster siblings. He has written about it so, so beautifully in his latest book, Australian Gospel. But here is a sneak peek from our conversation.

[La Lech Blaine]

Yeah, I just remember visceral fear and the sort of fear where you kind of. Even when I was older, even when the Shelleys were in different countries or I was still waiting for them to show up all the time, when I started to look into their backgrounds, I realised, wow, like, they're fascinating. Like, not just in terms of who they became, but who they were before that. And so I just really wanted to know how they change. Like, how does that happen? Like, I was just on a human level, I was like, just fascinated. How did those two people become these two people? And that was really kind of the start of me looking at this story as a potential.

[Ruby]

And before you go, you'll also want to hear my chat with Home and Away star Tessa James. Here she speaks about the moment she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma at 23.

[Tessa James]

It was traumatic. Yeah, it was. It was a lot. I mean, in the beginning, it's kind of like a lot around it. You know, everyone's like, I'm so sorry, are you okay? And all of that kind of stuff. But as it goes on, it went on for six months. Like, that became my life, my new normal. And, you know, as you're doing treatment, you become less and less of a person, basically. So not that it has any similarity to acting, but it was a similar thing that I would kind of say to myself, like, before I go into an audition, like, yes, you can do this. You know, And I would go in and I would really get the courage to go into that room, and I would do that every time that I would go into. Into get treatment. Because, you know, the first, second time you go and you don't really know what's happening, but that third, fourth, like, you know what you're going into. And so that was. That was really difficult. I think it took me a really long time to get my sense of self back. And it. And it wasn't even the same sense of self. I wasn't. I was a different person. I was a new. A new me. And I think that that took a bit of time to get used to as well.

[Ruby]

You can listen to both of these conversations in full. Just search Inherited on your favorite podcast app. And we're on Instagram and TikTok as well at Inherited the Pod. And we'll be back with another episode next Tuesday, so we'll see then.