Would you plan a wedding without a proposal?

Summary

Style-ish Podcast Episode Summary Episode Title: Would you plan a wedding without a proposal?
Host/Author: Shameless Media
Release Date: November 26, 2024

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1. Documentary Recommendation: "Buy Now"

Madison Sullivan Thorpe kicks off the episode by recommending the newly released Netflix documentary, "Buy Now". She highlights its focus on the environmental impact of overconsumption and its relevance to the episode's discussions.

"This documentary is just so interesting and I think it really ties into what we're going to be talking about today..."
[00:33] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Anika Joshi Smith expresses interest, adding it to her January watch list despite a busy schedule.

"I might put that on my January watch list. I feel like the silly season has just packed my car."
[01:45] – Anika Joshi Smith

Madison emphasizes the documentary's eye-opening perspective on marketing tactics in beauty retail and sustainability concerns.

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2. Headline 1: Wicked's Grand Promotional Tour and Brand Collaborations

The hosts delve into the extensive promotional tour for "Wicked", focusing on its Media Impact Value (MIV) and numerous brand collaborations.

Joanna Fleming introduces the topic, emphasizing its significance.

"Have you been following this?"
[02:41] – Joanna Fleming

Madison admits a lack of familiarity with musicals but acknowledges the massive marketing efforts behind "Wicked".

Anika compares the strategy to the successful Barbie marketing blueprint, noting over 60 brand collaborations ranging from Rebecca Minkoff to Crocs.

"It's just Barbie all over again, the amount of collabs that came out of that, it's just the same thing."
[05:02] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Joanna and Madison discuss the authenticity of collaborations, critiquing partnerships with brands like Betty Crocker as money grabs rather than genuine alignments.

"When you start getting into, like, ice cream brands, Betty Crocker, I don't know. For me, that feels like a little bit of a money grab."
[10:05] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Madison further critiques the saturation of brand partnerships, questioning the sustainability of such strategies.

"But I think the whole piece of this is the psychology behind halls and even the fact they've put it in their names, they've called it exactly what it is."
[25:00] – Anika Joshi Smith

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3. Headline 2: Amazon Launches Amazon Hall to Compete with Shein and Temu

Madison introduces Amazon's new low-cost storefront, Amazon Hall, aiming to rival Shein and Temu by offering products priced at $20 or under.

"Amazon, the world's largest online retailer, has launched a low-cost storefront called Amazon Hall to compete with Chinese founded e-commerce platforms Temu and Shein."
[21:40] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Joanna discusses the environmental and ethical concerns, highlighting the lack of transparency in product sourcing and manufacturing.

"You don't know where these products are coming from. How has it been made? Are there fair work conditions?"
[23:14] – Joanna Fleming

Anika explores the psychological aspects behind the allure of Amazon Hall, especially in the context of instant gratification and economic constraints.

"Yes, we live in a climate of instant gratification and we're living in that climate adjacent to a cost of living crisis."
[24:28] – Anika Joshi Smith

Madison underscores the sustainability issues, referencing the documentary "Buy Now" and Shein's massive production scale.

"Shein's producing like 1.3 billion garments."
[22:53] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

The hosts agree that while cost drives consumer behavior, the environmental and ethical ramifications pose significant concerns.

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4. Headline 3: Planning Weddings Without Proposals

The conversation shifts to evolving engagement practices, citing a New York Times article by Sadiba Hassan on couples booking weddings before formal proposals.

Madison presents startling statistics from a Zola survey:

"89% of couples had already begun the wedding planning process before they were formally engaged."
[27:42] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Anika finds the trend alarming, referencing a scene from Friends where pre-wedding planning leads to misunderstandings.

"If they've had the discussion, two people as a couple and they're doing that play on, if it is one member of the couple going ahead and doing that without conversation..."
[28:28] – Anika Joshi Smith

Joanna shares personal anecdotes about the unpredictability and risks of planning weddings prematurely, emphasizing the importance of traditional engagement milestones.

"To actually go ahead and commit to something without even having a proposal, an engagement, all of those things. It just seems like very, very high risk to me."
[31:02] – Joanna Fleming

Madison suggests that shared finances and modern relationship dynamics contribute to this shift, making traditional proposals less central.

"There's probably a hundred years ago you would know each other for two weeks and then get a proposal. So it's very, very different now."
[29:26] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

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5. Verdict: The Return of Isabel Morant Wedge Sneakers

In the concluding segment, the hosts revisit the resurgence of Isabel Morant wedge sneakers, reminiscing about their past popularity in the early 2010s.

Joanna shares her personal experience wearing them to "Wicked" in 2014, highlighting their comfort and style.

"I thoroughly loved them so much when I had them."
[34:03] – Joanna Fleming

Anika remains skeptical about the comeback, declaring a straight-up pass.

"So that's a hard no for me."
[34:32] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Madison reveals that only 12.85% of their surveyed audience is excited about the sneakers' return, aligning with the hosts' sentiments.

"We stand in solidarity with you and 87.15% of you were with all three of us."
[34:41] – Madison Sullivan Thorpe

Despite mixed feelings, Joanna notes her mother's continued love for the sneakers, suggesting a generational divide in fashion preferences.

"She's got three pairs... she's too small. She's really short. So they give her great height, which she loves."
[34:03] – Joanna Fleming

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6. Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to share their experiences, especially regarding pre-planned weddings without proposals. They also acknowledge the podcast team and promote Shameless Media's other projects.

"If you've got a story for us, send it through."
[31:16] – Joanna Fleming

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Notable Quotes

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
  "This documentary is just so interesting and I think it really ties into what we're going to be talking about today..."
  [00:33]

• Anika Joshi Smith:
  "I might put that on my January watch list. I feel like the silly season has just packed my car."
  [01:45]

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
  "It's just Barbie all over again, the amount of collabs that came out of that, it's just the same thing."
  [05:02]

• Joanna Fleming:
  "To actually go ahead and commit to something without even having a proposal, an engagement, all of those things. It just seems like very, very high risk to me."
  [31:02]

• Madison Sullivan Thorpe:
  "I think that body image piece is still very much an issue for teens and tweens."
  [18:57]

---

This episode of Style-ish offers a comprehensive exploration of current trends in fashion marketing, sustainable consumerism, modern relationship dynamics, and the cyclical nature of fashion preferences. By intertwining personal anecdotes with industry insights, the hosts provide a nuanced perspective valuable to both fashion enthusiasts and casual listeners.

Transcript

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Foreign.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

This episode of Stylish is brought to you by Cash Rewards, the place to get cash back when you shop online this Black Friday and Cyber Monday. This is Stylish, the podcast for all things fashion, brand, business, and beauty. My name is Madison Sullivan Thorpe and my co hosts are Anika Joshi Smith and Joanna Fleming.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We're back together.

[Joanna Fleming]

We need a drum roll.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Guys, I have a recommendation for you. Hit me. Neither of you, I don't think have seen this, but it's for you guys and then also our entire audience. I just watched a documentary on Netflix called Buy Now. I think it's just been released, like maybe in the last few days. It's kind of all about the impact of over consumption on the environment and that impact. And look, I am like the least educated person in that area. Sustainability is just not something that I'm well versed on. But I want to know more about it so that I can get better at it. And this documentary is just so interesting and I think it really ties into what we're going to be talking about today, especially with the Amazon headline that we're going to be diving into later. So I just wanted to mention that as a little recommendation for both of you, but then also for everyone listening, it will really open your eyes to what happens behind the scenes. And coming from beauty retail, some of it wasn't surprising to me, like the marketing tactics that are used to make us want to purchase stuff. If you are wanting to learn a little bit more about sustainability, I think it's a good place to start. It definitely scared me. I said, wow multiple times. Watching it, like out loud, it really will kind of force you into thinking about things a little bit more than you maybe have previously.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I might put that on my January watch list. I feel like the silly season has just packed my car.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Is that the watch list that doesn't exist?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Definitely no. I'm gonna be like such a lady of leisure in January. I, like, want to stay k, watch all the shows people have told me to watch all year, read all the books that I've, like, bought and literally let pile up next to my bed. I'm excited. It's like my time.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, I love that for you. Okay, great.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Okay, so today we're going to be discussing the rise of tween skin care. We're talking Amazon. Very timely. Amazon. Launching Amazon hall to compete with Shein and Temu, why people are booking their wedding venues before they're even engaged, and the fashion impact of Wicked and its grand promotional tour. And a little later on, we'll be finding out how you really feel about the return of the Isabel Moron wedge sneaker. So let's get into it. We're gonna start with Wicked. Have you been following this?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes, very much so.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Have you been living under a rock? What do you make of what's going on with Wicked right now?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I will say I am not a musical person. I've never seen Wicked and I probably won't, to be honest. Sorry.

[Joanna Fleming]

I didn't expect that from you.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Mads is jaw dropped. I thought musicals. Sorry.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Going to break out into song together. I was ready to be like Defying Gravity, not a duet. I don't know what we say when there's three of us. Let's just say a chorus. Acquire. Our producer Kate's here as well. There's four. We are fully acquired. We wanted it. Okay, so a little bit of background for everyone. The promotional tour for Wicked has generated something analysts call media impact value. And this is typically spoken about for fashion brands, but the MIV calculates the monetary value of articles, posts, social media coverage, all those things. Of course, Wicked feels like it's everywhere right now, and that's probably because it is. But they're saying that Wicked has made over 27 million in MIV to date. In an article for Vogue Business written by Madeline Schultz, say Udawale, a foresight analyst at the Future Laboratory, said, we're in an era where people want to immerse themselves in a world. It's not just about seeing the movie anymore. It's about living the movie. Merchandise, collabs, fashion. It's an extension of fandom. It's more than a product. It's an experience. Today, there are over 60 brands that have created Wicked theme capsule collections, from Rebecca Minkoff to Gap, Bloomingdale's, IT Cosmetics, Crocs, Camilla Caftans, OPI and many others.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

On it really does. We could do a whole episode.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

It's the most eclectic list of brand collabs I've seen.

[Joanna Fleming]

It's wild.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And I think the wild part that you have to mention about a brand collaboration is that there's always a monetary exchange for using that brand, whether it's either based on the sales or. Or it's based on a percentage of commission that you will get for the entirety. And so there is a lot of money being made right now, not just at the box office. And I guess Wicked is really borrowing from the Barbie blueprint that we saw in 2023.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was going to say it's just Barbie all over Again, the amount of collabs that came out of that, it's just the same thing.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. And so we had over 100 collaborations for Barbie. So Wicked's not far off with this. Over 60 brand collabs. What are your thoughts on the way that Wicked kind of utilized brands to be having these clubs?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It just doesn't surprise me, having seen the Barbie roll out. I'm like, this is a big moment. As with Barbie, we had Margot Robbie heading that up, as you know, the star of the movie. We've got Ariana Grande, who's another massive name heading up this movie.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It just feels very similar. Very similar audience.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So it makes sense. Let's target all of these millennial women and the things that they may remotely have interest in. Like, I remember OPI did one last year for Barbie. Nyx did one. Mermaid did one. Tangle Teaser did one. Yeah, like the list went on for that as well. And I remember seeing that roll out and just be like, really? That brand? I don't really see a correlation there with that, like ice cream brands and stuff. So.

[Joanna Fleming]

I totally second that. I feel like there's like new collabs popping up weekly at the. And I feel like gone are the days when they used to be two brands partnering really like minded brands or brand values, and they were trying to tap into each other's audiences to have like this genuine connection. Now it's like, how far and wide can we go with these collabs? We're seeing opi, Betty Crocker, the Betty Crocker one. I was like, what?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Like they're really relying on people being very invested in Wicked. I know that there are a lot of people that are. I don't want to offend anyone.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. I literally saw Wicked in 2014 with my mom. I'll never forget it. And I'm like, wow, the marketing has leveled up from then until now, 10 years later.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I think what I love about this press tour so much as well is the way that they've method dressed, which I think Margot Robbie and Zendaya are two really good examples of this. We saw Margot Robbie with so many iconic Barbie looks, both in nods to literal Barbie outfits and also just these beautiful pink inspired outfits that were so heavily linked to Barbie.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

But we saw it with Zendaya with the challengers movie and a lot of tennis themed dressing. I think that Ariana Grande and Cynthia look absolutely incredible on the red carpet. I don't know if you've seen some of them. I think the standout for Me was. I think it was the European premiere. And Ariana Grande was in Ralph Lauren and it was this beautiful, like, buttery yellow. And Cynthia was in Schiaparelli. But they've had a lot of nods to the original stage show wardrobe looks and also nods to the wizard of Oz 1920s movie. I want to say it was.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I can't remember what year, but there's, like, been a lot of nods to the characters, outfits and costumes within that era as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So the Sydney premiere. Yeah. Black, like the tight bodice. And then obviously Ariana was in that pink gown with, like, the puff sleeves. I don't know what brands.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Very reminiscent of Glinda in the wizard of Oz movie or the good.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Was it? Yeah, I wouldn't know.

[Joanna Fleming]

I love that their looks as well. They kind of both feel really like them as well. So it's obviously Ariana is more femme and then we're kind of saying a little bit more edgy for Cynthia.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But we must not forget the men. I feel like their looks have been so good.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Jonathan Bailey.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, he looks like five star chef's kiss.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Totally agree. Also saw him in a press interview where he was wearing, like this. It literally looked like an old school kids wizard of Oz T shirt. And I was like, oh, that's like my favorite. And it's just him in jeans and a tee.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I love that.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I mean, he could literally wear anything. He's quite gorgeous.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Have you guys been loving all of the tiktoks? Poking fun at, like, how dramatic the press interviews are with our. They're just, like, so emotionally invested in every interview.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So you guys know this about me, that I never cry. I'm just not an emotional person. It's just not in my DNA. Like, I'm that person that schedules Marley and me once or twice a year when I feel like I've got to feel something. I have cried with them. I reckon every single press interview I watch, for whatever reason, there's something about them reacting. Even though it feels like a little over the top, I do find them really authentic. So I'm crying along with Cynthia and Ariana.

[Joanna Fleming]

She's invested.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I really loved the interview with Taylor Biggs. Oh, my God.

[Kate]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She's like 11 years old and she was complimenting Cynthia on her nails and then just handed her sunglasses. Daria, like, she was just, you know, they were a trio. It wasn't just her interviewing them. It was so cute.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You could tell that they loved her as much as she loved them as well.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

They were dying over how cute she was. Because she's so prepared as well.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

This little girl interviews, like, all the big celebs. She goes to red carpets and stuff. She's iconic, but she's genuinely really good. It's not like they've just thrown a little girl in there and been like.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Oh, yeah, she's cute, tokenistic.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

She actually is really good at interviewing people. And she comes so well prepared. She also interviewed Paul Tazewell, who's the costume designer.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So, yeah, she is just, like, killing it, that little girl. Love all her looks as well.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Oh, she serves a total look. Yeah. We need to talk her red looks.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

We should do a traced on her.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Okay, so in terms of the collabs, which ones are we actually loving and what do we feel like makes a collaboration authentic?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like the beauty ones are always going to tie in a little bit to those, you know, the Barbie, the wicked. Because the beauty looks and the fashion looks are a big part of that production.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So those, for me, feel authentic. When you start getting into, like, ice cream brands, Betty Crocker, I don't know. For me, that feels like a little bit of a money grab.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, that's a bit of a rage. I have been loving, like, saying fashion's interpretation and just how that kind of putting all of these concepts and ideas out there, but not so forcefully. I love. Do you guys look at the Essence Edms and all of their marketing campaigns? They are so good. And they literally have done this one. It's like green or pink, and so they're kind of touching on, you know, the tones of it without being, like, wicked in your face. I loved Marc Jacobs. They just did a really cool one with Vogue, and it was all very play on wizard of Oz with all different types of shoes. They like the soft kind of fashion touches.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I mean, probably smart by them too, because they're not official sponsors, so they don't have to pay the fee and they get to reap on the reap the rewards of the cultural phenomenon that is wicked right now. All right, well, from wicked to tweens.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I feel like I'm probably the best.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I'm looking straight in.

[Joanna Fleming]

This one has you all over it, Jo.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I mean, speaking of tweens, we were just talking about Taylor Biggs, who's 11 years old. The tweens at the moment seem to be just completely infatuated with skincare. And there's this talk of the Sephora kid. So do you guys think that if you were 11 now that you would Be a skincare tween.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm such a sucker for packaging, so I feel like anything glittery, pink, bubbly, I would be like, sign me up. But in my heyday at 11, I was a Nivea girly.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Loved a chapstick. Maybe a little pop of color if I was feeling a little bit, you know, girly girl.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I love to chapstick. I think I would have been. I mean, I was a proactive girl. Oh, mum, so many notes for you on that one.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was going to say, oh, don't own it for that one.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, mom definitely bought into that trend. But yeah, I was the same. I loved Impulse. I loved a chapstick.

[Joanna Fleming]

So, yeah, spice up your life. Impulse Colab. Oh, yeah, that's one I can get around.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Iconic. Talking about collabs, that's actually one I couldn't very much sign up for that. Iconic. Who doesn't want to smell like posh beckon?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think I was still on the lip smackers at 11 to be close.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, yeah, cute.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, love it. Oh, a bit of body shot too. Oh, Body Shop Body butter. Yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And the little raspberry lip balm. Yeah, my cousin had one of them. I was so jealous the way that.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I thought that strawberry body balm just slapped.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah, well. In a recent feature on that topic for the Guardian, writer Eva Wiseman argue that diet culture has been replaced by skincare culture. And she detailed how her 10 year old daughter went to a birthday party recently where every second gift the birthday girl received was a bottle of moisturizer. Which does not surprise me. She wrote, if my daughter and her tween friends were getting excited about makeup rather than skincare, I think I'd find it less disturbing. The fantasy, the dressing up, the transformation, the glitter, the rinsing it all off at night time and then starting again in the morning instead, I fear their attraction to perfection. There's never been more pressure to have perfect skin. And by perfect, oddly, I mean skin like their skin that hasn't seen more than 10 summers, that appears poreless and wrinkle free Jewy. A forehead that reflects the classroom light. Which is a funny concept to think about because they are so obsessed with skincare at the moment, but really they are aiming for their own type of skin.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, it's like we have reasons to strive for that. Like you guys don't need to strive for what you have.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Every time a girlfriend has a baby, I like kiss the baby's forehead and I'm like, oh, God, I hope this collagen, like, wears off or.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

The bab and child skincare market is set to reach a staggering $380 million by 2028. And Gen Alpha, the generation after Gen Z, have been dubbed Sephora kids thanks to their fixation on skincare products. And ironically, this overuse of products is a major contributing factor to things like acne. I see this myself as a dermal therapist. Like, I have teen clients that are coming to me that are 11, 12, 13, dealing with acne concerns and their mums are going, oh, she's got all of this skin care. Can we use any of this? And I'm like, no, none of that should be touching her face. It's just going to be exacerbating her concerns. She's basically destroyed her skin barrier and we need to work on restoring that to be able to resolve her acne concerns.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, Right.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So I'm seeing this firsthand playing out. Many of these products that they're buying, like retinol and exfoliating acids, they're made for adults skin and something that's really important to remember, and this would be really important to relay to a teen that might be harassing you for active skincare. Their skin cell turnover is about 14 to 28 days. They don't need to be exfoliating with exfoliating acids. That skin cell turnover slows as we age, but it's at its fastest when we're children. So they don't need any of these ingredients for any reason. If they have genuine skin concerns like acne, like blackheads, like excess oiliness, see an expert for their opinion. They will be able to give you the products that you need to be using on your child's face to resolve those concerns and limit further damage. But just letting them run wild with Mecca vouchers in the drunk elephant aisle, I don't. That's just a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

[Joanna Fleming]

So it's doing more harm than good. That's wild.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I mean, will they always have these unhealthy obsessions? Like, do you think that this is the lesser of evils? Like, would we prefer they're into skincare than cigarettes? I guess so.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I just feel like in lieu of boy bands, they now have skin care. Like, we had boy bands. Oh, my God, we had boy bands and sank One Direction, Justin Bieber. We're showing a little bit of age.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

But I feel like we were the pop bands and now they have skin care. I found the quote jarring and a little bit interesting, personally, because I think Looking at. I mean I've got a 10 year old niece. I say niece, it's my cousin's little girl, but she's my niece, same thing. I feel much more comfortable her asking me for a sunscreen for Christmas as part of her skincare regime or a moisturiser and as someone who is informed about what's in product than I would feel if she asked me for an eyeshadow or a concealer.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

See, I'm chill with cleansers, moisturizers, sunscreens. That is totally fine for children to be using and I fully encourage you to be using a sunscreen especially. But it's where we get into those like, oh, I want, you know, a set of aha. Toners.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That I can use on my face. We don't need to be doing that.

[Joanna Fleming]

No.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And I think that's where like ultimately going in store and speaking to a skin specialist or going to a dermatologist and all of those things are what children need and they need guidance and they need their parents to help them in that. And I think the reality is though, a lot of them are going shopping centers together after school and they're experimenting and they want to try things the same way that I'm sure I bought a supermarket brand of concealer at some point that was three shades too dark or you know, a mascara that was blue. And I think skin culture versus diet culture, it's a really interesting contrast. I think social media has a lot to answer for within this and I think majorly also this social media ban, particularly in Australia that's just been introduced for under sixteens, maybe we'll see a shift in this, in this landscape, but I don't know, I just think it's, I mean I had a skincare routine at 13, 14 because my skin became problematic and mum went and bought me proactive because that's what all of her mum friends told her to do. And I'm like, that wasn't good for my skin, do you know what I mean? Like you're doing the best you can with the tools that you have.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And they're also absorbing so much of this information from the Internet. And I think we've said before they're viewing this content that is maybe of someone who's 20 years old and it's what they're using and they're going, oh my God, I want to be exactly like this girl. I'm going to buy everything that she's talking about. But it reminds me so much of the Sopray days of Mads, you might be a little bit too young for this. And I don't know.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I love the OC T shirt. I wish I kept that the way you kept the Fakuff T shirt.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Well, it just reminds me of that because remember that time where it was so cool to carry a soap bag to school? And now it's the Mecca bag.

[Joanna Fleming]

And even, like, going back to the last headline we touched on, it's immersing yourself in that culture. They're seeing all of their favorite faces, all of their celebrities, all these movies. Immersing themselves literally in that culture and wanting to be part of it, and then going probably and buying the OPA nail polishes and maybe the Betty Crocker. I don't know. Like, literally just getting involved. It is. It's an interesting one, honestly.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Versing diet culture. I'd rather kids be doing skincare routine than counting calories.

[Joanna Fleming]

It does feel so.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

But I also don't feel that it's replaced diet culture. I think that was kind of like an offhanded remark. I think that body image piece is still very much an issue for teens and tweens.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Sweet baby girls.

[Joanna Fleming]

I know.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, I just think it's just they've got beautiful skin, and they just need to speak to someone in a store or in an environment where they can be cared for and advised in the right way, where there are a plethora of brands for them to discover. And some of them look beautiful and fun and bright, and some of them look a little bit more subdued, a little bit more demure.

[Joanna Fleming]

Exactly.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

There's so many brands as well that are at an accessible price point that you can continue to repurchase. They're going to be gentler on the skin. As I mentioned before, I'm a fan of Cerave and La Roche Posay, especially for teens, because there are less products in their ranges that are very active. So I'm like, that's always a fairly safe bet. But as you said, Mads, see an expert, chat about your child's skin, take them to see someone, and get the right advice for their specific concerns rather than just guessing.

[Joanna Fleming]

Amen, sister.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Thank God. I'm proud of my niece. When she asked for the sunscreen, I was like, those genes run really strong on holidays.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Recently, my nephew panicked because he thought he got sunburnt. He didn't, but he was freaking out. I was like, I should be filming this for TikTok right now.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You too. Like those jeans. Running strong.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, so I mentioned at the top of the episode that documentary that I had watched on Netflix recently. But before we get into exploring the launch of Amazon hall, which ties into that recommendation, we're going to hear a word from today's sponsor.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Hi guys, it's Maddie here and have I got a swap for you. Now this hack will take your Black Friday and Cyber Monday savings to the next level. Have you ever heard of Cash rewards? It's a shopping tool that's a favorite among the style savvy and money savvy. Here's how it works. When you shop online, Cash Rewards gives you cash back. They've partnered with over 2000 brands, including some of my personal go tos like the iconic Amazon H and M&Booking.com and here's the magic. Let's say you spend $100 with a retailer offering 20% cash back, you'll get $20 back into your cash rewards account. That's on top of any sales discounts you're already getting. And here's the cherry on top. If you join Cash Rewards today, you'll score a $20 welcome bonus. Just use the code style when you sign up and spend $20 within 14 days. A big thank you to Cash Rewards for supporting this episode of Stylish.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Anyway, to loop back to what I recommended to you guys earlier, that show that I was talking about by now on Netflix, I feel like this just ties perfectly into this next headline. Amazon Launches Amazon hall to compete with Shein and Temu. Now, we've already spoken a fair bit about Shein on a previous episode, haven't we?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

We have, yes. We spoke about them in a headline with Alice McCall.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's right. What was that episode again? So Amazon, the world's largest online retailer, who I'm sure we're all familiar with, has launched a low cost storefront called Amazon hall to compete with Chinese founded e commerce platforms Temu and Shein. Now Amazon hall will sell electronics, apparel, other products, all priced at $20 or under. In a Vogue business article about the launch, Katerina Kaspelik, the chief marketing officer of fashion advocacy organization Remake, said we have big concerns about Amazon's recent haul launch. This move encourages buying a lot of clothes at once, usually cheaply made, which means they often end up in the trash after just a few wears, if any. So despite an industry wide shift towards a slower, more considered approach to fashion consumption and a bigger emphasis on sustainability and ethics, ultra cheap, fast fashion sales remain incredibly high. In 2023, shein sales for UK customers jumped by 40% to 1.5 billion pounds, proving that there's still an incredible demand for cheap clothing and products. And in that documentary I think they mentioned that shein's producing like 1.3 billion garments.

[Joanna Fleming]

Wow.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

A year. I think it was a year. I'll have to go back and like fact check that. But I was like, whoa. And it was compared on a scale with some other brands and manufacturers and that is just such a mind blowing stat. But are you guys surprised to see this from Amazon? I think it reflects a direct impact that Shein and Temu are having on Amazon. What do you guys think?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm honestly not surprised to see another player come out within the space, especially a US based player because we actually work with Amazon on a wholesale level with a few of like a previous brand partners, not at current and how they operate. It's really interesting. So pretty much you or me or anyone could go on and become a retail store, kind of like Etsy and you can kind of create your own space, load your own products. But with that in mind, the seller has complete control. Right. So you don't know where these products are coming from, you don't know how they're being made, you don't know what routes they're going to take to get to you. Whether that be via C Air. There are so many concerns because it obviously then comes back to the fact of with Amazon haul being everything under $20, where is that product being made? How has it been made? Are there fair work conditions made? And then obviously we've touched on the sustainability and economic piece previously, but. But just thinking about like the carbon footprint being left behind, traveling all over the world to get to customers, it's fucking scary and it's honestly so concerning because the lead times here as well, they're pretty quick and you can kind of buy one order and it comes from so many different places. So you might say okay, I've just spent $100, but what impact has that a hundred dollars that you've just spent have on the wider environment?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I think the whole piece of this is the psychology behind halls and even the fact they've put it in their names, they've called it exactly what it is. Yes, we live in a climate of instant gratification and we're living in that climate adjacent to a cost of living crisis. And I think if someone is given $50 and can go and buy 10 things versus give them $50 and have to troll sites to buy one, yeah, there is such an appetite for more is more is more. Because in a time when I feel like I Have less. I want as much as I can get for what I've got.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Side note, did you guys see that TikTok influencer who got caught shoplifting $500 worth of Target and then went home and filmed a haul on it?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, I did not.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

It's like big new. It's been in my Tick Tock feed all weekend. I do think that the whole culture is impacting Australia, but not to the degree that it's impacting the us.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Wow. But I know myself, even as a very heavy consumer of content, will always stop if someone's like, I've done a haul. You know, here's what I bought. Whether it's from the Iconic or Net A Porter or. I don't really care where it's from. Like, I'm interacting with that whether I think it's right or wrong. Yeah, I'm interacting with it. And I. I think there is something about this dopamine hit of watching someone unbox something or unboxing it yourself. I mean, even if I just buy a singular pair of shoes.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You know, you know what it's like when you're in the office or you're at home. It's like, oh, show and tell, show us what you've got.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So I think there is this, like, entertainment escapism that comes from that kind of shopping. And I'm not at all surprised that Amazon want to play in this because they were the original whole shoppers in a very different space and now they're going to be competing in a very direct one to Shein and Temu.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

And I don't think we can deny the cost factor. Cost is always going to be the biggest defining factor of whether or not you purchase something. Sustainability and what it's made from and what it looks like, I think are all secondary factors. But I think that most of us could agree that the cost is the barrier or the reason that you purchase something. And I think that will always be the case. So the cheaper things get, the easier it is to access these things that maybe we couldn't have 10 to 15 years ago, because they weren't all of these websites that you could just access this cheap clothing from. Yeah, you would have to shop it in store and you would be going to retailers like Kmart or Target or Best and Less to shop these more affordable pieces of clothing.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Well, from one thing that is very cheap to one thing that is incredibly expensive. Our next headline is our marriage proposals becoming a mere formality. A recent New York Times article by Sadiba Hassan explored the rise in couples booking their weddings before the proposal has even taken place. She writes, for many couples, proposals are becoming more of a formality. Getting married is a major life decision that people are discussing before an engagement. And for practical reasons, many couples are getting a head start on planning. A 2024 study by wedding planning site Zola that surveyed 7,000American couples found that 89% of couples had already began the wedding planning process before they were formally engaged.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's the very high statistic.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Wild.

[Joanna Fleming]

Nah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And then 17% actually took a concrete step in the wedding planning process before the question was popped. I'm talking booking the venue or shopping for wedding outfits.

[Joanna Fleming]

This is mad.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Couples that Hasan interviewed in the article shared a variety of reasons for planning their wedding before they were actually engaged. They mentioned everything from wanting time to save money for it to being able to lock in a venue at their desired date.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You know what this reminds me of? That episode of Friends where Chandler overhears that voicemail come through where Monica's put down her name before they started dating at the wedding venue, and then he overhears it and freaks out about her booking a wedding venue before they were even engaged.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. I found this article so funny to read because I was like, if they've had the discussion, two people as a couple and they're doing that play on, if it is one member of the couple going ahead and doing that without conversation and consultation with the other. Personally, not a play on for me, I think, no, play ball. I'm like, out.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I reckon this statistic has come about because some couples now are more transparent. Transparent about proposals than others. And I think it probably comes from shared finances. Like, a lot of couples been together for, you know, 10 years. There's no way to hide that you're taking a few thousand dollars out to buy an engagement ring without the other person knowing. A lot of people are now trying on rings together and so they kind of know that they're getting proposed to. So I think there's that element as well that things have changed around proposals being surprising because probably a hundred years ago you would know each other for two weeks and then get a proposal. So it's very, very different now.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I think there's shared finances. And I also think as well, there's lots of other elements to it. There's probably been years and years of people receiving rings they don't like.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yes.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So now there's a little bit, like, I'd like a little bit of a say.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

And I also know A lot of people who have paid for half of their ring because it's a tremendous financial investment for one person in the couple to be making when ultimately you're deciding make that step. Yeah. I have quite a few friends, and I really like it, or I respect that. Some friends who. Their partner has had a certain budget and they've had a certain ring expectation, and they're like, right, well, okay, you know, I'm willing to chip in. And I also know people who, when they've received a ring, they've bought something that their partner would like, whether that's a piece of jewelry or a watch, to kind of go, it doesn't really make sense. I get something. But I think there is a lot more transparency in conversation because it's a shared investment, it's a shared decision, It's a shared commitment. So why should someone kind of be like, ah, shock, surprise, jump, scare. Do you want to do this by either picking the ring or in this case, the venue?

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

I just find it so wild. I just feel like there's so much that can go wrong from girlfriends. Like, you know, I'm sure you guys are in the same position where they planned a wedding during COVID and then they went all out. Like, one of my best friends, she planned this beautiful wedding in Copenhagen, and the whole thing was almost too good to be true. And then it didn't happen. And then we had to plan two other weddings on top of that. That could finally happen. I'm like, to actually go ahead and commit to something without even having a proposal, an engagement, all of those things. It just seems like very, very high risk to me.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I'm just way too superstitious for that.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

Saying that I'm, like, jinxed.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

No.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I definitely have girlfriends who've saved a ring or seen a venue and been like, oh, I would love to get married at somewhere like that. But I can't say I know anyone who's gone ahead and made a booking.

[Joanna Fleming]

No. And bought the wedding dress or, like, something of this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Imagine if there's anyone listening that is willing to tell us about themselves doing that. Please DM us. We won't judge. I promise. I know we're all saying, like, that's crazy, but, like, we will not judge you. If you've got a story for us, send it through.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. And, like, if you type A, respect. I'm a type A too.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Like, maybe not in this.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

There's probably a reason that they've gone ahead and done it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah. Give us the razor.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Yeah. I want us the tea. All right, well, that is our headlines for today. Now we're going to jump into the verdict, which is where we poll you guys on something that we think might be making a comeback or coming into fashion, and you tell us whether or not you're vibing it. And we also give you our opinions, too. Today we are talking the Isabel Morant wedge sneaker. Now, I hated this the first time it came around. And that would have been circa 2010, 2011, 2012. Maybe that's the rough timeline I'm thinking my head. The time that I was going to see Q nightclub in Melbourne every Saturday is the time when these sneakers, everyone was wearing them for context.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

For those who don't live in Melbourne, CQ nightclub was like the it in a bit spot. So she got let in. She was hot enough.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was on the list.

[Joanna Fleming]

Guys, she's vip.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

So these sneakers were huge at the time to describe them to you. You were not around in this era. They're basically like a suede sneaker but with a wedge on it. Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

That's the best way I can put it.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm so guilty. I actually wore mine to Wicked in 2014.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Two Worlds colliding everywhere.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I know.

[Joanna Fleming]

I was like, this is actually so funny.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Do you still have them?

[Joanna Fleming]

I don't. I actually sold them, and they were worn, like, heavily. They were my shoe that I lived in. Like, I saved up.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

You would have had a lot.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah, I actually. Fun fact. I worked at Sessenbide at the time. It was my. My first job when I moved to Melbourne, and we had this thing called a style guide. So if you were to wear jeans in store, you had to wear a heel. And one of the heels that were aoked was the wedge sneaker.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Really?

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Did you wear the rat's leggings from Sassenbide with your Isabelle?

[Joanna Fleming]

Did I ever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, she owned it. She rocked it. She loved it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

That was the look, wasn't it? It was like oversized singlet, shiny leggings.

[Joanna Fleming]

Yeah. And a wedge snake up and then, like, heavy eyeliner. I was like, that was me.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Yeah.

[Joanna Fleming]

But they are so comfy. So they're very chunky. They're quite puffy. Like, the tongue on them. It's literally filled with foam. Like, it is puff. They kind of look like a moon boot slash. I don't know. You'd wear them in the snow.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You're talking a bit of a, like, favorable game. Are we gonna see you in these?

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm gonna bring it well, actually, when my mum gets here, she still wears hers. And she's too small. Yeah, she's really short. She owns those things. I reckon she's got three pairs. She's got like a khaki, a tan, and a dark. And she honestly, she's short. So they give her great height, which she loves, and they're comfortable.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Okay, well, if she says they're still cool, I can't shit talk it.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I mean, it's a pass for me. And not like in a pass bucket, just a straight up pass bucket.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can't imagine you wearing them.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

No, but I'm also 5 foot 2 and I just love anything that gives me a little bit of height. So, I mean, it might not be this. Your arm could be twisted, but maybe just a wedge something, and I might be there. Okay. So it sounds like Joe and I are a hard no. Annika. She's saying no, but I feel like it's kind of a yes.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I think she's borrowing her mum.

[Joanna Fleming]

I'm not saying you'll never, ever see me coming full circle on this one. Like, I will not wear them again, but I thoroughly loved them so much when I had them.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

You enjoyed your time. Okay. And so now it's time to hear from the stylish community who we are all very pleased to inform were on our side. Only 12.85% of you said yes. We stand in solidarity with you and 87.15% of you were with all three of us.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I was thinking it was going to be like 25%. Yes. You actually thought it would be higher? Because I think so much about audience is around my age, so I'm like, they're probably thinking this is a bit of a throwback. We could be back at CQ maybe living out there. Yeah. And your witch sneakers.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Nostalgia has a funny thing at the moment.

[Joanna Fleming]

Oh, my God, I love the side of Joe.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

So I'm just changing our entire Christmas party plans now, and we're definitely going to take Joe to a nightclub in a wedge sneaker. And assassin by if there's wet pussy shots. It's the way that you said wet pussy, and I just was waiting for the next word.

[Joanna Fleming]

And her FCUK T shirt.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

I can't wait. Bring it back.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

I want Joe in a Jegging the Fakuck T shirt and a wedge sneaker.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

All right, I'll rip the Isabel Morantz out. Can I borrow them from your mum, though?

[Joanna Fleming]

You can.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

Awesome. Yeah.

[Anika Joshi Smith]

Okay. So that's all from us for this week's episode of Stylish. We'll end on the high of a wet pussy shot. Thank you so much for joining us. And of course thanks very much to you, Annika Joshi Smith, and you, Joanna Fleming, who have given some absolute pearls today. Remember, you can drop us an email anytime@style-ishameless media.com or you can slide into our DMS over at Stylish AU. And we cannot forget to thank the wonderful Shameless Media team, head of podcast Lucy Hunt and senior podcast producer Kate Emma Burke. We'll be right back with you next Wednesday. See you then.

[Madison Sullivan Thorpe]

See you then.

[Joanna Fleming]

Ciao for now. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[Kate]

Hey guys, it's Mish here. Are you struggling this summer because all of your favorite podcasts are on break? Fear not, because our recently launched interview show, Inherited is working right through the summer break. Yep, that means fresh interviews for your ears every single week. If you've not listened to an episode of Inherited before, it's the show where we ask our guests for the recipes, rules, relics and rituals that have shaped who they are. My favorite interview is actually a bit of a toss up. I I'd have to say it's between Lucy Jackson or Tony Lodge so far, but I'll tell you a bit about Tony Lodge's ep. This interview had a bit of everything. It made me laugh because of, you know, who Tony is as a person, but it also made me tear up and cry. From building her career from scratch to losing her mum and finding reprieve in dark humor, so many snippets of this interview have just stuck with me long after listening. Here's one of them when you're talking.

[Mish]

To a friend and they kind of go, oh, I was just chatting with my mum the other day and I used to just get so mad that there was no way that I could just casually bring up my mom. This was pre therapy, obviously, and so when people would be like, oh, my phone's dead. I'd be like, oh, my mom as well, because I just wanted to talk about her.

[Kate]

Search Inherited on any of your favorite podcast apps and get listening. Your summer road trip is sorted.