Let The Chips Fall - Ep. 5

Summary

Podcast Summary: Suave – "Let The Chips Fall" (Episode 5)

Introduction

Suave, a Pulitzer Prize-winning podcast by Futuro Media, delves into the life of Luis "Suave" Gonzalez, a former juvenile lifer who has been navigating life post-incarceration for seven years. In Season Two, titled "Let The Chips Fall," Episode 5 explores the intricate challenges Suave faces as he grapples with lingering trauma from his time in prison while striving for stability and true freedom in the outside world.

Incident with the Car

The episode begins with Suave encountering a seemingly minor vehicular mishap. After a neighbor inadvertently sideswipes his car while parking, Suave opts to handle the repair himself due to the neighbor's lack of insurance. Suave explains his decision:

"Your life is worth more than a car. I get on site, but I also get that on site leads to a lot of people not making it out." [00:35]

However, things take a concerning turn when Suave attends a justice reform event in Philadelphia. There, he meets a woman who offers to fix his car cheaply through her boyfriend's body shop. Suave leaves his car for repair, but when weeks pass without updates, his anxiety mounts.

Escalation and Disturbing Communications

Suave receives a perplexing text from an unknown judge:

"I will pay for your month's insurance and finance or your car. I don't think they intended to steal your car." [05:18]

The judge further adds:

"The woman is having a mental breakdown, and I do not want her to go back to jail, which is what will happen if you report this." [05:32]

Feeling betrayed and confused, Suave voices his frustration:

"I'm like, fuck this. I'm filing a police report. This is going to blow up in their faces big time." [06:29]

As days pass without locating his car, Suave's demeanor shifts dramatically. He expresses feelings of paranoia and anger, stating:

"If I wasn't on parole and probation, I'd be fucking somebody up. That's the real truth." [07:02]

Decision to Go Public and Community Backlash

Suave announces his intention to take the matter public via social media, challenging the very community he advocates for:

"I'm going public. Let the chips fall anymore." [09:34]

His decision sparks backlash within the abolitionist community, leading to a heated emergency meeting. Suave's frustration with the lack of support and perceived hypocrisy within the movement becomes evident:

"I'm not the only one that's gonna take a loss. That's why I was pissed with Maria." [19:10]

Intervention and Attempts to Resolve

Concerned for Suave's mental well-being, Julieta and Brooke attempt to reach out, leading to a heartfelt conversation where Suave reveals his inner turmoil and sense of institutionalization:

"I need to have a structure. When I don't have a structure in my life, I feel like I'm going downhill." [22:07]

Despite the team's efforts, Suave briefly declares his intention to quit the podcast, expressing feelings of self-sabotage and hopelessness. However, he later retracts his decision after additional intervention.

Resolution: Car Retrieval and Reflection

After over two months, Suave receives word that his car has been located by the Philadelphia Police Department. Upon retrieving it, he shares his disillusionment with the advocacy space:

"This advocacy is fake. You know, I'm sorry I stayed back there, but it's the fakest bit I ever seen." [24:37]

A visit to Suave's studio reveals his profound self-reflection. He discusses a painting featuring three monks with an empty space, symbolizing his struggle to find peace and the constant battle to fill that void:

"I'm trying my best to be the bigger person. I'm trying my best to be one of them monks up there. I painted them." [26:07]

Conversations on Trauma and Recovery

In a serene setting amidst Suave's studio and his three cats, Julieta and Brooke engage in deep conversations about Suave's traumatic experiences and his path to healing. Suave confronts the harsh realities he faces and the systemic issues within the justice reform movement, emphasizing the personal cost of such conflicts:

"What would you do if you were in that spot? It was only a car. No, those individuals came into my space and violated my space, disrupted my life." [27:57]

Conclusion: Moving Forward

The episode concludes with a blend of resolution and ongoing tension. Suave finds his car but remains disillusioned with the advocacy community. Through introspection and support from his team, Suave begins to navigate his complex emotions, striving to maintain his hard-earned freedom while addressing the deep-seated trauma of his past.

Key Takeaways

• Mental Health Struggles: Suave's journey highlights the persistent mental health challenges faced by individuals re-entering society after long-term incarceration.

• Community Dynamics: The episode sheds light on the complexities within advocacy communities, illustrating how external pressures and internal conflicts can impact personal well-being.

• Resilience and Vulnerability: Suave's vulnerability in expressing his frustrations underscores the delicate balance between resilience and the need for support systems.

Notable Quotes

• "I have every right to protect myself." — Luis Suave Gonzalez [02:17]

• "What I'm gonna do is create a stone for a bunch of people." — Luis Suave Gonzalez [10:52]

• "This is not what an abolitionist does." — Critic in Social Media Response [16:44]

Final Thoughts

"Let The Chips Fall" serves as a poignant exploration of the lingering shadows cast by incarceration, the quest for authentic freedom, and the intricate dance between personal accountability and community support. Through Suave's candid narrative, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the multifaceted challenges that extend beyond prison walls, emphasizing the need for comprehensive support systems for those seeking to rebuild their lives.

Production Credits

Suave is produced by Futuro Media, with Julieta Martinelli as the senior producer, reporter, and host. The production team includes associate producer Liliana Ruiz, editors Marlon Bishop, and post-production led by Stephanie Lebeau and others. Season Two is supported by the Mellon Foundation and Public Welfare Foundation, among other contributors.

Listen Now

Join Futuro+ to access all seven episodes of Suave Season Two, along with exclusive bonus content. Support independent journalism and immerse yourself in Suave’s profound journey by subscribing at www.futuromediagroup.org/joinplus.

Transcript

[Brooke Gladstone]

Season two of Suave was made possible by the Mellon Foundation. Mellon makes grants to support visionaries and communities that unlock the power of the arts and humanities. To help connect us all [e-mail] hey.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Suave listeners, it's Julieta here. Are you tired of waiting each week for new episodes to come out? Well, you can listen to the whole scene season of Suave right now, plus exclusive bonus episodes by joining Futuro plus. And you'll be helping support the independent journalism that we do here at Futuro. Join now at futuromediagroup.org joinplus Suave is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Y' all poke the teddy bear now. Y' all got the grizzly back. You want to fuck with me? That's how it's going to go down. It's on site. It's not gonna be. Let's talk outside. It's on site. Where? I don't know where we at. It's going to be on site. That's the dude y' all wanted. Y' all got him.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Your life is worth more than a car. I get on site, but I also get that on site leads to a lot of people not making it out.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I have every right to protect myself.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah, protect yourself is one thing. On site is different. If they come at you first, then, yes, you have a right to protect yourself. Like, that's really upsetting to even, like.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Like, I swear to my mother's grave, if I see them first, they're not gonna get a chance to drop on me. The only way you're gonna catch me, if you catch me with my back turn or slipping. And you're not gonna do that because I'm a paranoid anyway, so I'm. I'm walking on ice right now.

[Julieta Martinelli]

I just don't want to see you back locked up. Suave. I know you don't want that either, but, like, hearing you say that like that scares the fucking shit out of me. From Futuro Studios, this is Suave. I'm Julieta Martinelli. In 2017, David Luis Suave Gonzalez was released from prison after 31 years, serving a life sentence without parole. He was one of thousands of juvenile lifers granted a second chance at life. This is a story about life after Incarceration and a search for the true meaning of freedom. This is season two. Today's episode, the car drama.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Swaby. Yeah.

[Brooke Gladstone]

What is going on? Like, seriously, I don't. I mean, you tell me it's an emergency.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Did you speak to.

[Brooke Gladstone]

No, I did not.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Oh, okay.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So today I'm getting things ready for a trip, and then I get this call from Suave. And, yeah, he had texted me earlier. He said that we needed to talk. He said it was an emergency. Right. I remember you told me, and you showed me a picture, and it looked like they had sideswiped you.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Right.

[Brooke Gladstone]

So Suave tells me that a neighbor had backed up into his car while parking on the street a few weeks ago, and I don't think it's very serious. Right. Like, I think he maybe needed a new bumper, a fender. And Suave tells me he decided to handle the repairs himself since his neighbor didn't have insurance, and he just wanted to resolve the whole thing.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Shortly after this happened, Suave says he was at a justice reform event in Philly, and he was talking about what happened with a woman. She's an activist who was also formerly incarcerated, and he just knew her casually from these kind of events. Suave says the woman told him that her boyfriend worked at a body shop and that he could fix his car on the side for pretty cheap.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

They come pick it up the following.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Monday, and as far as Suave is concerned, the car is in the shop.

[Brooke Gladstone]

After about a week of not hearing anything, Suave says he begins to call the woman who took the car to the shop, and like, nothing. So he begins to worry.

[Julieta Martinelli]

And not long after that, something strange happens.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I get a text from a judge telling me, I will pay for your month's insurance and finance or your card. I don't think they intended to steal your car.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Excuse me.

[Julieta Martinelli]

So Suave gets a strange message from a judge that he doesn't know saying, I don't think they intended to steal your car. The judge also tells Suave that they don't know where the car or the woman is. The judge writes that the woman is, quote, having a mental breakdown, and I do not want her to go back to jail, which is what will happen if you report this. Now.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

First of all, I don't have nothing to do with your disappearing of your car.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Suave tells me that the woman who allegedly took his car had been helping that judge reach voters during their election campaign. And there's a video on the woman's Instagram actually telling people to vote for that judge. So Suave is already upset that he doesn't even know where his car is. And now, I mean, no, no, he does not take this text message well at all.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'm like, fuck this. I'm filing a police report. This is going to blow up in their faces big time.

[Julieta Martinelli]

So he calls the police and reports his car stolen. Over the next few days, Suave and I talk on the phone often. Are you there?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Julieta Martinelli]

What's been going on?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Well, they still haven't found my car.

[Julieta Martinelli]

As time passes and there's no news about the car, I start to hear an edge in Suave's voice.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

If I wasn't on parole and probation, I'd be fucking somebody up. That's the real truth. I'm not in the street no more. I'm a fucking regular citizen. Been working hard. I don't with nobody. I don't mess around with nobody. I mind my business. I help where I can help. Why would you want to do this to me? I'm not a. I'm not a. At all. What make you think you could try me? And I'm not going to react because if I get triggered, somebody's going to get hurt. Not fake her. Real hurt. At this point, I don't give a fuck who go to jail or not. Because at the end of the day, I have no sympathy, I have no loyalty to these people.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I have never heard Suave talk like this before. Like with this tone and Suave saying these particular things about people getting hurt. I'm like, what?

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah, I agree with you. I think it was kind of shocking to hear him say that he doesn't care if people get locked up. Just because Suave to me is kind of like the epitome of someone who actually does give a fuck. You know, somebody who's dedicated so much of his life to getting people out of prison. Someone who actually really believes in second chances.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I mean, it is not an easy thing to hear, right? But also the idea that his car might have been stolen by someone that he knows and trusts, by someone in the reform space that he's in, I mean, I think this hits him hard. And then I think it hits doubly hard for him that this judge is basically telling him, wait, don't do anything about this. Just keep waiting. Now that's hard. But at the same time, I'm kind of looking at Suave like, oh, ya, Ms. Suave. Seriously, all of this, like over a car? Good morning, Suave. How are you doing, bro? A week ago, everything kind of went crazy in Your life.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I mean, it's gonna get crazier because I'm going public with this stuff.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Wait, wait. What do you mean?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'm going public? That's what I mean. I'm going public. Let the chicks forward anymore.

[Brooke Gladstone]

There's a lot going on right now. Mounting economic inequality, threats to democracy, environmental disaster, the sour stench of chaos in the air. I'm Brooke Gladstone, host of WNYC's on the Media. Want to understand the reasons and the.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Meanings of the narratives that led us.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Here and maybe how to head them off at the pass that's on the media specialty. Take a listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hold on a second, swabby. Hold on. I need you to. I need you to take a pause for a second. Like, what are you. What are you gonna do?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

What I'm gonna do is create a stone for a bunch of people. That's what I'm about to do. I'm dropping a whole bunch of stuff on social media. I'm dropping everything.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Suave says he's gonna go on social media and tell everyone what happened. Now, you have to understand that the reform space, particularly in Philly, is pretty small in the sense that everybody kind of knows everybody. And many of the people in this space are abolitionists. They believe that issues should be resolved by the community, not by the police. And he's about to go online and tell everyone that he doesn't care if the woman is having a mental health crisis. He doesn't care if she's on probation or parole or even if she goes to prison.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

See, these liberal judges, they think because somebody don't want somebody to go to jail that, oh, we all liberal. Get the out of here. I'm not that in the liberal, that I'm taking a loss on a car. You want me to shut the up. You don't want me to say, give me my money for my car? At this point, I don't give a fuck. If I got to die for this, I would do it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm sorry. You're not gonna like what I'm about to say. This dude. This, like, amazing dude is prepared to die because of a car. Don't tell me you're prepared to die for a car. Don't tell me that. Are you still there?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah, I'm here.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And so in this moment, seriously, like, I am legitimately terrified for Suave and his safety. How did we go from a car theft to Suave saying he's ready to die for this? For a car? I mean, I just don't understand, before you do anything, we need to have a conversation just so we understand what is happening. The team. Are you in agreement with that?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Okay.

[Julieta Martinelli]

So we decide to throw an emergency meeting. At that time, I was actually on the first vacation that I'd taken in years, camping somewhere in the middle of the desert. So I drove an hour just for a tiny bit of signal. Eventually, all of our team's faces pop up on my zoom screen.

[Brooke Gladstone]

This is happening in Suave's life right now while we are in the middle of producing Suave Season 2. I mean, Suave is a very public person. He's about to do this publicly all over his social media. So Suave, you are certain then that.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You will be taking action to come public on this in the next 24 hours? That's Maria Garcia, Futuro's executive editor.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Well, let me. Let me say this right. I appreciate the conversation from the bottom of my heart, but I'm only doing this because Maria asked me not. Not to go public. At the time I wanted to go to. At the end of the day, I'mma defend myself, regardless of what the circumstances may be. I gotta go back to prison. It. That's what it gonna be. I'm not no nut. I'm not no sucker. I'm none of that. I'm none of the above. So what.

[Julieta Martinelli]

What do you think it's gonna look like when you go public?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'm using everything I got. I'm using my Facebook, Instagram, everything. Trust me, it's going to be a stone for somebody. See, because at this point, it's not even about a car no more. It's not even about a car.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm totally freaked out about this situation. Mostly because I hear the desperation in your voice.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but you're wrong to say that I'm desperate. What am I desperate for? What am I? I'm not desperate. I'm not desperate. I know what I'm doing. I'm not desperate. I know I'm dealing with. They don't want to lose they seat in the beds. Well, I'm supposed to be scared. I'm supposed to let them run over me. I'm supposed to just say, hey, do whatever you want with swab. I'm not doing that shit.

[Julieta Martinelli]

One of her newer production assistants cuts in to offer some words of advice. I think.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Sorry.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Like, what I'm hearing is that it backfires instantly.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Making decisions in this state of mind.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Is sometimes not the best thing. Because what state of mind you know what? Anyway, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Sorry. Sorry for interrupting.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Then Suave disappears. The next couple days are honestly pretty rough. I hurry back home to Atlanta, and the whole time I'm just thinking about Suave.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And, you know, I hate this motherly instinct thing, especially. Especially when it comes to Suave. But this is for real. One of those times where I really wish that he would share his location with me or that I just had another way of calling someone to just check in on him. Because I'm freaking out.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah. And I can't get a hold of him either. But I know that he said that he'd be dropping those posts soon, so I set a notification alert on my phone and I just wait. It's not long before I get an alert. I run to Instagram, and there it is. Suave's first public post regarding his car. I click on the video.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Stop believing these people. When they come into our communities begging for a vote. Question is, why is these people so invested in the death of my car? I don't want to put nobody in prison. I don't want nobody to get in trouble over this. All I want is my car.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Suave records his video in selfie mode. He's wearing a black leather jacket. I can tell instantly that he's worked up. Suave's media blitz is in full effect, background music and all. I scroll through several videos. They're all very similar. I keep going back to check. I keep looking for new comments. And I see that Suave's post is starting to receive some criticism. Bro, are you even an abolitionist? Asked you to give them a week before you contacted the police on someone who's on parole, and you couldn't even do that? Do you believe in reform? All of this to promote your lame podcast? You're a desperate clown. Stop it. You sound like a fucking crybaby girl. This is not what an abolitionist does. Just a few hours later, all of Suave's posts about the car situation are completely wiped from his Instagram account. The next day, I finally get on the phone with Suave, and his story is different. I wanted to know what happened after you posted the stuff.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going crazy now. I just went through Bridle on them. I went on every social platform. I'm about to get some ass on Instagram that run 24 hours a day. Tomorrow is Friday. When I wake up Monday morning, right? Because I already paid for them ass. I'm releasing everything.

[Julieta Martinelli]

The Next time we talk, it's clear to me that the negative responses from some of the folks in the movement have really gotten under his skin.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

A lot of advocates is like, bro, man, we meet on the bench. We need. All right, I need my car. To them, it's nothing. To me, it's everything. You're blowing this up about a car. It's my fucking car, God damn it. Fuck y' all talking about?

[Julieta Martinelli]

I just want to make sure that all the work that you've done isn't undone. That's my only concern.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Listen, at this point, it don't matter if I get the call back or not. It don't matter. See, because now y' all triggering me to be the. That I always was a real nasty. Now you've seen that nasty part and y' all don't like it. I'm not the only one that's gonna take a loss. That's why I was pissed with Maria. Call that meaning? Talking about, I understand your mental health, man, get the out of here. You don't know my mental health.

[Julieta Martinelli]

I know that, you know, we were talking about you potentially applying, like, you know, for a pardon or something next year.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

And like, I'm not, I'm not even thinking about that. Julieta. I'll be honest with you. At this point, I'm not even thinking about that.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Okay. The way he's talking, I mean, my skin was crawling. I, I, I, I, I just. It was so hard for me to hear the things that he was saying.

[Julieta Martinelli]

I think it's so hard because you don't know how to help, how to be there for him. You know, he's pulled away. I feel like he's spiraling. But he's also an adult and he doesn't want us to be there. So what do you do? One day I get an early morning text. Okay, so on Sunday morning, like 4:30 in the morning, I got a text from him and he basically was like, I've decided that I'm no longer going to follow through with my part of the contract.

[Brooke Gladstone]

What?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Me? Oh, my God.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Oh, my God.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Ravi says he's quitting. He's done with the podcast. No explanation. He's just done. It feels like self sabotage, right? He's kind of blowing everything up right now. You know, like, I want to be supportive, but at the same time, like, like, he's saying things that are, like, very concerning. If you don't mind, I want to try to call him one more time today.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Well, maybe I should try calling him. You should.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You should Things are tense. But I ask him if it's okay that I schedule a meeting with him and everybody else on the team so that we can at least try and resolve things or at least get an answer as to why he's trying to quit. Suave acceptance.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Swabe. Just let me know if you can hear me.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah, I can hear you.

[Brooke Gladstone]

My heart is breaking because of everything that's happened in your life over the last month. I. I just wanted to say, express myself.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I appreciate you and everybody else. I really do. Thank you for your words. You know, I don't know how much time I'm gonna be alive or whatever the. I don't. I really don't. You know, and that's nothing to get spooky about. It's just what it is. I get frustrated because I'm very institutionalized. I need to have a structure. When I don't have a structure in my life, I feel like I'm going downhill with. Seriously, it's none of your fault. It's nobody's fault. It's just how I'm feeling. Like, fuck it.

[Julieta Martinelli]

He calls me that night. I don't record our conversation, but he basically says that he changed his mind and he never really wanted to quit.

[Brooke Gladstone]

But that cryptic thing he said in the meeting, I don't know how much time I'm gonna be alive. I mean, what is he thinking of doing? And again, it sounds like he's ready to throw everything, everything away, even life itself.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Over the winter holidays, the Futura office is closed. Everything is on pause until a couple of days after Christmas when I get a text message from Suave. I call him immediately.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Oh, my God. I just read through your text. What the hell?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

What?

[Julieta Martinelli]

You mean the text you sent me about the car?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Julieta Martinelli]

What happened?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

They called me on the 23rd. He said, we think they located your car. And I said, okay. Then I got a call from the police station to come pick it up.

[Julieta Martinelli]

A little over two months since this whole car ordeal began, Suave finally gets the news that they found his car. He says he got a phone call from the Philadelphia Police Department. His car was at an impound and he needed to come pick it up. When he got there, they told him that they had arrested a male driver, a name that he doesn't recognize, and that was it. Case closed. But Suave at least finally had his car back. How do you feel you sound. I don't know. You don't sound that great.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I feel good.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You feel good?

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Listen, I told you already, I'm on Right. This situation showed me a whole different side of this advocacy. This is not real. This is like the rap game. This is like the music game. Got a bunch of phony people were trying to be something that they not until they confronted with some real. This advocacy is fake. You know, I'm sorry I stayed back there, but it's the fakest bit I ever seen.

[Julieta Martinelli]

A little before the car was found, Maria and I actually decided to go visit Suave in person. Frankly, we were just really worried about him and we wanted to make sure that he was okay. In Philly, I meet Maria at Suave's studio. Almost every inch of the walls is completely covered in paintings. And there's a new one that catches our eye.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm looking at this painting and I'm like, what is going on here? There are three monks who are sitting cross legged on the floor and they look completely at peace. And then in between them there's this empty space.

[Julieta Martinelli]

He tells us that the empty space is for him.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'm trying my best to be the bigger person. I'm trying my best to be one of them monks up there. I painted them.

[Brooke Gladstone]

That's right.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Right. To try to be one of them. I'm trying to be the fourth one. That's why I left a space there. Right. The problem is that every time I'm trying to get to the bottom of that spot right there, I got to get through all that shape first.

[Brooke Gladstone]

It's the first time that we've heard something like self reflection from Suave about how all of this triggered him and how all of this led to his reaction. And you know, after weeks of conversations about dying or about going back to prison, I mean, at this point it is truly just comforting to see him in the flesh, alive, in and not in prison.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Look at this little, this little fur ball. Over the next several hours, we find ourselves locked in Suave's tiny studio. We set up our chairs around a tiny wooden nightstand while Suave's three cats nuzzle our ankles and we just talk.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You said something yesterday that I think it's probably in the top three most scariest things that you've ever said. So when you said Yesterday on the 6th anniversary of your release that you had actually envisioned and prepared for your return, that you knew that there was going to be no coming back. This has me terrified.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

People always want to rationalize shit when it's not happening to them. What would you do if you were in that spot? It was only a car. No, those individuals came in my space and Violated my space, disrupted my life. I spent 31 years in prison. Real tough hardcore dudes. I ain't never let a soul, nobody take a odors and Noodles suit from me. But yeah, you gonna take my car and then act like I ain't supposed to do nothing about it? You acting like you built for this life and you not. Oh, you should have never done that.

[Brooke Gladstone]

No, here's what I think. I think we have to do a radical change. That's what I think. And I think.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Radical change.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Get the out of Philly, Stop being in this place.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

You make it sound like I'm packing up my suitcase. Bella, we going to New York.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You're talking like you can just pack up and go to prison. You don't have to take with you.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

So my thing is I. I understand you. I. I feel whatever it is you're saying. I feel it. You're not feeling me though. I don't think people understand. And they don't. And I understand. That's why I can't be mad. Then when you start using words like mental state and shit like that. That shit been used against me all my life.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And the truth is, he's right. I mean, I don't understand. As much as I know Suave, our lives really are incredibly different. Right? I wasn't that little boy who grew up in pretty extreme poverty who experienced a lot of violence around him as part of his daily life. You know, I don't live with the trauma of decades in prison, so of course I feel like I'm helping him by trying to offer some solutions. But the thing is, for Suave, just walking away after this kind of violation, kind of just saying, no, no, no, no, don't worry, I'm just going to turn the other cheek. I mean, that's really hard for him.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

You gotta pay a car. I still gotta walk around with these. Driving my, Driving my. That I work hard for and just wave at them. Because that's exactly what you asking me to do. Become a ass dude that you would never was in prison, do that out here. Somebody wants something, just give it to them. It's not worth it. At what point do it become worth it?

[Julieta Martinelli]

We talk for hours. It isn't an easy conversation, but it's good to talk. I know. Like things are just awkward and weird and like, this is intense, but it's like, it's love. And I don't want it to end on some Philly Channel 12 whatever news.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Yes, you're much better than that.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I hear you.

[Julieta Martinelli]

In the end, we Sit in comforting silence. Things seem to be cool. Everybody's chilled out. And then Maria pulls out some. Something from her purse.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

What's that, Maria?

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm gonna light some incense.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I thought you was allergic to.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I am, but this is.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You love this Olympia.

[Brooke Gladstone]

I'm doing a little Olympia here.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Maria's got a little incense stick, and she's legitimately, like, doing an Olympia, you know, saging Suave.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Turn around, turn around, turn around.

[Julieta Martinelli]

And so I was not feeling it.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Come over here.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Come over here. Major eye rolls.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Just stay.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Just stay where you are.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Smelling like that.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You are. That's the whole idea. Putting a protective circle around you, Suave.

[Julieta Martinelli]

A protective circle around Suave. I keep trying to gauge how Suave is really feeling. I know that he's experienced this before at the hands of some very important women in his life.

[Brooke Gladstone]

Who saved you from prison? Oh, your mother and your grandmother and your aunt, who were haciend Olympias todo tiempo.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Especially his mother, who was a very dedicated santera when she was alive. Santeria is an ancestral spiritual practice from the Caribbean with roots in Africa. Suave's mother taught him how to survive. And according to Suave's brother Tony, she always believed with everything she had that Suave would one day be free. So much so that you may remember from season one that she forbade anyone from ever saying in her presence or her home that Suave was going to spend the rest of his life and in prison.

[Brooke Gladstone]

And so maybe, maybe the best thing for Suave actually is to get the hell out of Philly. And so right there and then I'm like, look, we gotta take a trip. We gotta go to this place that in a lot of ways is the beginning of Suave's story. The beginning of this cycle of trauma and loneliness and abandonment that ultimately, ultimately gets Suave to prison. It's a place that is really important because it's the place where Suave's mother was born. Puerto Rico.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Mama.

[Brooke Gladstone]

You told me that your mom actually was using.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I mean, she got high with us. She let us do what we wanted to do.

[Brooke Gladstone]

She was using heroin.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Last time we talking was a heated.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah, I remember.

[Luis Suave Gonzalez]

That's why I was wondering today. You ain't going to apologize to me. I'm Maria. And also, nobody ghosts me. That was that odd.

[Julieta Martinelli]

But that's next time. Suave is a production of Futuro's Two Studios to binge every episode of Suave Season 2 right now. Plus exclusive bonus episodes. Subscribe to Futura the senior producer, reporter and host is me, Julieta Martinelli. Our associate producer is Liliana Ruiz. We're edited by Marlon Bishop. Our production managers are Jessica Ellis and Nancy Trujillo. Our post production producer is Dan River. Scoring and sound design by Stephanie Lebeau. Mixing by Stephanie Lebeau, Julia Caruso and J.J. carubin. Our fact checker is Amy Tardif. Production help from Joaquin Kotler, Juan Diego Ramirez, Nicole Rothwell, Joey Del Valle, Evelyn Fajardo Alvarez, Glori Marquez and Tasha Sandoval. Our executive producers are Marieno Rosa, Luis Suave Gonzalez, Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Futura Media was founded by Marie Hinojosa. Special thanks to Maggie Freeling, Audrey Quinn, Antonia Seregido, Fernanda Echabarri, Neil Rossini Students at the I Am More program at the Community College of Philadelphia, the Abolitionist Law Center, Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and the Campaign for the Fair Sentencing of Youth. Season two of Suave was made possible by the Mellon Foundation. Mellon makes grants to support divisionaries and communities that unlock the power of the arts and humanities to help connect us all. [e-mail] Season 2 of Suave was made possible in part by Public Welfare foundation catalyzing transformative approaches to justice that are community led, restorative and racially. Just.

[Brooke Gladstone]

From PRX.