Our Thing: The Birth of Salsa in Nueva York (hosted by Rosie Perez)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Our Thing: The Birth of Salsa in Nueva York

Podcast: Suave (Futuro Media)
Episode: Episode 1 – Fania Takes Nueva York
Host: Rosie Perez
Original Air Date: June 2, 2026

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Overview:

In this vibrant and nostalgic premiere, Rosie Perez guides listeners through the birth of salsa music in New York City, focusing on the origins and revolutionary impact of Fania Records. The episode blends personal memories, music history, and interviews with icons and insiders to chronicle how a small, audacious record label became the “Motown of Latin music,” shaping the city’s soundscape and giving rise to a musical movement rooted in identity, rebellion, and community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Legendary 1973 Yankee Stadium Salsa Concert

• Rosie Perez opens with the story of Fania's historic concert at Yankee Stadium—a bold gamble that shocked doubters.
  • “You had to have cojones to think you could play [Yankee Stadium]” (Rosie Perez, 00:48)
• Alex Masucci, Fania insider: “I said, how many people do you expect? He said, ‘We’ll get 8,000 people.’ Everybody said we were crazy for doing Yankee Stadium.” (Alex Masucci, 02:02)
• The event unexpectedly drew 42,000 ecstatic fans, igniting what Perez dubs “Fania Mania.”
  • “Little did he or I know there was going to be 42,000 people there. The Yankee Stadium vibe was explosive.” (Alex Masucci, 04:04)
• Rosie paints a feverish picture:
  • Legendary percussionists Mongo Santamaria and Ray Barretto “battling it out” and audiences rushing the stage:
  • “These motherfuckers were wailing on the drums like they don’t even look human at times.” (Rosie Perez, 04:22)

2. New York’s Exploding Latino Identity and Salsa’s Social Roots

• Perez and experts trace the 1960s shift in NYC’s Latin music from big bands and ballrooms to a dynamic, hybrid street sound.
• Journalist Aurora Flores:
  • “We’re taking over schools to ask for Black and Puerto Rican studies... We were into bell bottom jeans, and torn off T-shirts and no bra.” (Aurora Flores, 12:57)
  • Young Latinos fused their heritage with American pop, jazz, and soul, creating a sound that was “ours”:
  • “We didn’t do that [reject our parents’ music]. We respected it, but then we mixed it up with our music, our influences... and we called it salsa.” (Aurora Flores, 15:09)

3. Dancing as Rebellion and Social Glue

• Perez describes the essential role of dance in Latin social life and its liberating effect on youth:
  • “Let me tell you something: dancing does something to your brain. It changes you. It makes you more confident. You may not be very good looking, but boy, if you could dance, people waited in line for you.” (Rosie Perez, 21:00)
• Clubs like the Palladium were cultural melting pots, requiring formal dress yet serving as sanctuaries for expression.

4. Johnny Pacheco: From Dominican Roots to Nuyorican Legend

• Pacheco, Fania’s co-founder and musical architect, traced his path from the Dominican Republic to Juilliard to charismatic bandleader:
  • “My father was a band leader... By the time I was about seven, I was playing Merengues already.” (Johnny Pacheco, 17:24 / 17:37)
• Pacheco’s first burst came via Alegre Records but, frustrated by business issues, he sought a new direction.
  • “We were selling records and the money wasn’t coming in... And that really ticked me off.” (Johnny Pacheco, 26:51)
  • “I wanted to have the best orchestra ever, getting all the best musicians, putting them together.” (Johnny Pacheco, 27:04)

5. The Fania Records Origin Story

• Pacheco finds a like-minded partner in Jerry Masucci, a Brooklyn-raised Italo-American whose love affair with Latin music began in pre-revolutionary Havana:
  • “Imagine... you’re a jock, and all of a sudden he’s in Havana with Celia Cruz singing on the corner... it was just action town.” (Alex Masucci, 29:33)
• The company was radically DIY at first—mom’s money, flop musically and physically:
  • “My mother and father gave them the money to do the album... They were making $28 a week.” (Alex Masucci, 32:12)
  • The duo distributed records themselves:
    • “It was cold like hell and my nose was running. And one guy said, look where Pacheco landed. He’s making deliveries.” (Johnny Pacheco, 36:10)

6. Fania’s Breakthrough and Impact

• Their records echoed a new reality, singing about the projects and urban life, not rural nostalgia:
  • “He’s singing about the projects, he’s singing about riots, he’s singing about us.” (Aurora Flores, 37:08)
• As the city’s demographics changed, so did its soundtrack. Fania became a cultural touchstone, blending African, Caribbean, and American influences.
  • “Our rhythm is directly African. We cannot continue to act as if this is just Latin music. This is African music.” (Alex Masucci, 38:07, season preview)

7. Teaser for Upcoming Drama and Legacy

• The episode previews coming conflicts, both creative and financial:
  • “Why is it, Jerry, that you promote the commercial bands? Why aren’t you promoting the Black bands? Fania is making money in every direction.” (Rosie Perez, 38:17)
  • Pacheco’s pain at unfair label practices:
    • “If you sold 100, that was unheard of. We sold millions, didn’t make a nickel, not a fucking penny. I never made muster nuts.” (Johnny Pacheco, 38:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the sheer audacity of the Yankee Stadium concert:
  • Rosie Perez: “Crazy because who the hell reserves a 50,000 seater venue for 8,000 people?” (02:12)
• On the explosive wave of Fania’s popularity:
  • Alex Masucci: “Little did he or I know that there was going to be 42,000 people there.” (04:04)
• On the defiant energy of the crowd:
  • Rosie Perez: “The crowd didn’t give a fuck about any agreement.” (06:03)
• On the fusion at the heart of salsa:
  • Aurora Flores: “We respected our parents’ Puerto Rican music. We respected the Cuban music. But then we mixed it up with our music, our influences... and we called it salsa.” (15:09)
• On identity:
  • Rosie Perez: “As a Nuyorican, I sometimes questioned if I was Puerto Rican enough for the motherland. Salsa reminded me that identity is not just inherited, it is created, lived, celebrated.” (10:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:48] - Opening: Yankee Stadium concert setup
• [02:59] - The risk of Fania Records & lineup of salsa legends
• [04:04] - 42,000 fans arrive, “Fania Mania” erupts
• [10:44] - Rosie Perez’s Personal Connection to Salsa & Identity
• [12:57] - Civil Rights context and musical evolution
• [16:33] - Johnny Pacheco’s origin and early career
• [27:04] - Pacheco leaves Alegre, teams with Jerry Masucci
• [32:01] - Founding of Fania Records
• [36:10] - Hands-on record distribution, grassroots hustle
• [37:08] - Culture shift: salsa reflects urban Latino life
• [38:07] - Acknowledging salsa’s African roots
• [38:17] - Teasers of tension and legacy: money, race, betrayal

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Tone & Style

Rosie Perez is spirited, warm, and direct, blending her Brooklyn wit with deep affection for salsa’s New York roots. The episode is a mix of nostalgia, pride, and candid storytelling—embodying the same energy and defiance that defined salsa’s rise.

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Further Listening

• For a deeper dive into Fania’s rise and the untold drama behind the music, follow “Our Thing: The Birth of Salsa in Nueva York” on your favorite podcast app.
• The episode notes also include links to a Spotify playlist featuring the music discussed.

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Transcript

[Rosie Perez]

Hello, dear suave listener. We're coming into your feed to bring you something special. Futuro Studios has been working on a brand new podcast. It's called Our the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York. It's a show about the legends and the label that defined salsa, that would be Fania Records. And wait until you hear who is hosting our new podcast. I'm so proud of this show and I think going to love it. So here's the first episode of our thing, the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York. If you like it, you can follow the show on the link in this episode's show notes. And here's your host, the one and only Rosie Perez.

Before we get started, I want to let you know that you can listen to the entire season of our thing, the Birth of Salsa in Hue Bayoc right now ad free, plus exclusive episodes on Futurao plus our thing, the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York was made possible by the Mellon foundation which seeks to build just communities enriched by meaning and empowered by critical thinking where ideas and imagination can thrive. Heads up. This episode contains some explicit language. There's a pretty legendary concert from 1973. A concert that the day after it happened, everyone was sitting on our stoop in Brooklyn talking about it. People still talk about it to this day. It was at a venue. You had to have cojones to think you could play.

[Alex Masucci]

Yankee Stadium at that time could hold 55,000, as I remember,

[Rosie Perez]

Yankee Stadium. Initially this concert was supposed to attract a modest crowd.

[Alex Masucci]

I said, how many people you expect? He said, yeah, we'll get 8,000 people. Everybody said, we're crazy for doing Yankee Stadium.

[Rosie Perez]

Crazy because who the hell reserves a 50,000 seater venue for 8,000 people? Stadiums were reserved for big, big shows. I mean, only a few years before this, the Beatles played Shea Stadium.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Here are the Beatles.

[Rosie Perez]

But there was a boutique music label in New York City and well, they had cojones. These were underdogs from a forgotten corner of the city, El Barrio and the Bronx, making a new kind of explosive music, fusion. This genre they were calling salsa. And that little boutique label, it was called Fania Records.

[Alex Masucci]

Fania Records.

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Fania.

[Alex Masucci]

Fania Records.

[Rosie Perez]

Fania Records.

[Alex Masucci]

I was sitting there with Jerry at 5:30 and there was nobody there.

[Rosie Perez]

At first it seemed funnier. Records bet on Yankee Stadium wouldn't pay off.

[Alex Masucci]

And we didn't have great ticket sales and we put a lot of money into that.

[Rosie Perez]

But they had something in their corner. Or someone.

[Alex Masucci]

Ladies and gentlemen, here they are.

[Rosie Perez]

Or several someones.

[Alex Masucci]

Where's Batisbank?

[Rosie Perez]

Musicians, the Justice League of salsa. I was 9 years old at the time, but that was old enough to know the names of these legends.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Willie Colon.

[Rosie Perez]

The sounds of Willy Colon and Hector Lavo were blasting at my family parties before this show ever happened.

[Alex Masucci]

Larry Paulo, Larry Pacheco.

[Rosie Perez]

These were the superheroes of salsa. You really think only 8,000 people were going to show up to watch them when the Latinos in the city had grown export exponentially by police?

[Alex Masucci]

Little did he or I know that there was going to be 42,000 people there. The Yankee Stadium divide was explosive. It was so nuts that I saw the impending craziness coming on

[Rosie Perez]

on stage that night. The best percussion players of that time, Mongo Santa Maria and Ray Boro, battling it out on the congas. And if you hadn't seen this video, honey, you have homework. These motherfuckers were wailing on the drums like they don't even look human at times. Ray Barreto was in a white button up shirt open just enough to show off his chest. At one point he takes the conga drum and starts banging it on the ground. Johnny Pacheco, one of Fania co owners and director, is dancing. While he's conducting. He can't contain himself. Like every person on that stage is dancing. It's electric, as if the drums possess the people. And the crowd who was sitting in the stadium seats wanted to see their superheroes up close. They wanted to be on stage. Nikki Morero remembers that moment.

[Alex Masucci]

And all of a sudden I saw the public that was sitting in the bleachers coming down was like ants

[Johnny Pacheco]

coming

[Alex Masucci]

into the grounds and coming closer and closer and closer and closer.

[Rosie Perez]

Bonnie of Records co owner Jerry Masucci had made a deal with the stadium that prohibited the crowds from getting on on the field or the label would lose their deposit. But the crowd didn't give a fuck about any agreement.

[Alex Masucci]

I could see them coming down from the lows, down and down.

[Rosie Perez]

Thousands of people swarmed the field.

[Alex Masucci]

The groundskeeper goes over to the AC distribution panel and he's pulling out the power to the stage.

[Rosie Perez]

The sound guy, Bernie Fox, did his best to keep the the concert going as the groundkeepers threaten to shut it down.

[Alex Masucci]

This is all life. And the thing is flashing, you know, there's sparks and the sound system goes, it turns into what sounds like a kazoo.

[Rosie Perez]

The show no one thought would draw a crowd took over Yankee Stadium. No, not only did the fans rush the field, they jumped on the stage and took whatever wasn't nailed to the ground. Someone waved a giant puerto Rican flag. It was nuts. Fania Mania, A little record label that people called crazy for booking Yankee Stadium, proved everyone wrong, nikki Marrero recalls.

[Alex Masucci]

It was the first time in my life that I felt Yankee Stadium. Where can you go after this?

[Rosie Perez]

From Futuro Studios, I'm Rosie Perez and this is our thing the Birth of Salsa in Nueva, a podcast about the legends behind the music and the label who defined it. Bania Records. Hi, I'm Rosie Perez. My hair is extra dry in the winters and extra frizzy in the summers. You know what I'm talking about. Especially in New York City, where the temperature extremes can wreak havoc on your hair. But it pales in comparison of When I step off the plane in Puerto Rico, my hair goes poof. K18 is a part of my hair regime. It actually repairs hair at the molecular level. It delivers a really beautiful, soft, strong, bouncy hair for all hair types and textures. I'm telling you your results last and don't wash out, ladies and gentlemen. Stop covering up hair damage with hats or scarves and actually repair it with K18 mask. Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase at K18hair.com with code SALSA. That's code S A L S A at K18hair.com.

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[Rosie Perez]

My work has always lived at the intersection of movement, film and storytelling. From my choreography days that earned me Emmy nominations to my life on screen with Golden Globe and Oscar nods, it has all been about expression for me. But before the recognitions or the titles, I was just a girl in Brooklyn listening to salsa music. As a Nuyorican, I sometimes questioned if I was Puerto Rican enough for the motherland. Salsa reminded me that identity is not just inherited, it is created, lived, celebrated. And it was born and raised right here on the streets of New York City. So that's where we're gonna start. Episode 1 Fania takes Nueva Yort. From Brooklyn to the Bronx, Music has always been a part of New York City's heartbeat. Coming from windows, people's cars, family parties. Check, check and check. The hi fi was up and bumping the latest tune. People would bring over their favorite records and share their latest finds. For our family, that usually included artists from Fania Records, the Motown of Latin music. You know them. Willie Colon, Hector Lavot, Chefliciano, Larry Hollow,

[Johnny Pacheco]

Ismael Rivera, Roberto Ruena, Ruben Blake, Celia

[Alex Masucci]

Cruz, Ruben Blades, Celia Cruz, Feliciano.

[Rosie Perez]

Celia Cruz, Johnny Pacheco.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Johnny Pacheco, Johnny Pacheco.

[Rosie Perez]

These artists were the soundtrack to our lives. And they were here in New York City because if you wanted to make music, New York was where you came to make it. And the 60s was a time of change. Change in music, change in politics, change in culture.

[Aurora Flores]

We're taking over schools to ask for black and Puerto Rican studies. The civil rights is going on. We're watching people crossing the bridge in the South.

[Rosie Perez]

Full and equal freedom for all of

[Johnny Pacheco]

our citizens, regardless of race or regardless of color.

[Aurora Flores]

And getting shot with hoses from fire and being sicked on with German shepherds.

[Rosie Perez]

Aurora Flores is a Puerto Rican journalist and writer who once worked for Fania Records and grew up in New York City. She remembers Puerto Rican activists mobilizing in the 60s.

[Aurora Flores]

They were advocating for the liberation of Puerto Rico. And we're marching, you know, against the Vietnam War.

[Johnny Pacheco]

The war in Vietnam is a war

[Alex Masucci]

of imperialist aggression against the colored people in East Harlem.

[Aurora Flores]

We're more into civil rights. We're more integrated with the black community. We were into bell bottom jeans, you know, and torn off T shirts and no bra.

[Rosie Perez]

The sneaker generation, as they were nickname, were going against the grain, changing things up from what their parents used to do. Their parents who used to hit the big ballrooms and big mambo numbers. You know, the big bands and the boleros and merengues.

[Aurora Flores]

The 60s was a big shift from big band from mambo, from rumba emerengue to charanga to pachanga. In 1960, when the whole world was doing twists, New York Latinos were doing pachandra.

[Rosie Perez]

And don't forget, rock and roll was also taking over. In the 60s, young people in the US used rock and roll to rebel.

[Aurora Flores]

American kids rejected the big band music of their parents. They out and out rejected and embraced rock and roll. Then by the time 64 came in, the Beatles, that took over.

[Rosie Perez]

We were listening to rock and roll and soul too. But many Latino teenagers didn't see the need to completely reject their parents music.

[Aurora Flores]

We didn't do that. We respected our parents Puerto Rican music. We respected the Cuban music. But then we mixed it up with our music, our influences, with jazz, with rock, with what was going on with Eng, and we called it salsa.

[Rosie Perez]

Latinos were adapting the music of the past to vibe with what they were feeling at the time. And at that time, it was all about a new kind of dance, the bachanga. It's kind of like salsa to the naked eye, but more funky, more street. Often involves a panuelo and some jumping.

[Johnny Pacheco]

The thing that came up was a pachanga.

[Rosie Perez]

This is musician Johnny Pacheco speaking to author Mary Kent for her book Salsa Talks.

[Johnny Pacheco]

I was number one. I started the dance and the charanga craze.

[Rosie Perez]

Charanga was a light feeling, Cuban music, the music you dance, the pachanga to get it. The name pachanga is actually a fusion of his name, PA or pacheco and changa for charanga. Because Johnny is the one who started the dance craze and he was literally bringing down the house as shows. As he told Aurora Flores in an interview.

[Johnny Pacheco]

When I opened the palladium, the ceiling fell down and there was a car dealer and a drugstore. All the medication went on the floor and they had to put steel beams in order for me to come in with a pachanga.

[Alex Masucci]

Johnny was like my big brother, you know, just a very lovable guy. There's really not a bad bone in his body.

[Rosie Perez]

This is Alex Basucci, who worked alongside Johnny at Fania Records.

[Alex Masucci]

Always had a smile on his face, cigar in his hand, you know, and a joke on his tongue. He was always telling jokes.

[Rosie Perez]

Let me tell you more about Johnny because he's one of the main characters in this whole story. Juan Azarias Pacheco Paco Nipping, AKA Johnny Pacheco was born in the Dominican Republic and was exposed to music young.

[Johnny Pacheco]

My father was a band leader, used to have Ocherta Santa Cecilia, which was the number one orchestra in that era.

[Rosie Perez]

His father, renowned bandleader and clarinetis, gifted him a harmonica one year, and that was that.

[Johnny Pacheco]

The first instrument that I got was a harmonica that was given to me. By the time I was about seven, I was playing Merenguez already.

[Rosie Perez]

Johnny's family fled the Dominican Republic because of the infamous dictator Rafael Trujillo. The Pacheco family did not sympathize with the dictator, and if you weren't down with Trujillo, it was very easy to turn up missing. So Johnny's father worked tirelessly to get his family out of the country, finally able to bring Johnny over to New York City when he was 11. After going through the public school system, he eventually studied percussion at Juilliard, the world renowned music school. By the late 50s, Johnny was gaining traction with his orchestra, Pacheco Issu Charanga.

[Johnny Pacheco]

I was trying to get the group recorded. I never gave up. So I went in the studio and I did a demo nobody wanted. They said, that's crap. It's gonna die. Forget about that.

[Aurora Flores]

Then comes Alegre Records, Al Santiago.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Al Santiago came in and he says, you want to record, kid, I'll give you a contract.

[Rosie Perez]

Al Santiago was a record producer who started Alegre Records, AKA Casa Alegre, out of the Bronx.

[Aurora Flores]

Al Santiago was the first one to record these guys when nobody else would record them.

[Rosie Perez]

Johnny also trusted Al Santiago. Al had grown up enthralled with loud music, Even as a kid hanging out at the Palladium, the legendary New York City concert hall. Here is Al speaking with journalist David karp. In the 90s, before he passed, I

[Johnny Pacheco]

used to be the band boy to

[Alex Masucci]

my uncle's band who played the Palladium.

[Johnny Pacheco]

And I, at least, was on the bandstand giving out the music. I remember going up those long flight of stairs, those many, many steps, and hearing the brass section. That is my favorite mambo phrase, and I'll never forget it.

[Rosie Perez]

The Palladium Ballroom was one of the most famous establishments of the time. A legend in the heart of midtown, the club was home to the biggest acts and best dancers.

[Johnny Pacheco]

They wanted you to be dressed appropriately. You had to have a jacket. You couldn't get in unless you wore a tie. And if you didn't have one, you were forced to rent a real ugly, wrinkled, horrible tie. And of course, in those days, we

[Alex Masucci]

didn't have jeans and we didn't have

[Johnny Pacheco]

sneakers, and no one Would dare go like that.

[Rosie Perez]

The big bands played at the clubs all over town, but they all wanted top billing. At Palladium, the players were dressed to the knives. The best dancers all up front absorbing the sounds of the percussion, filling the clave Ba ba ba ba ba so

[Aurora Flores]

all this is happening and then clubs are happening. Not only is Harlem all over the Bronx, one of the reasons clubs came up was because of factories. You know, this, the whole, you know, industrial revolution and the way it happened on the island and all of that. People needed a place on the weekends to just relax. This was not farm work anymore.

[Rosie Perez]

The people needed this music. They craved it. And that created competition all over the city because you had to get out and dance at the best spots with the best orchestras. You needed an outlet. And let me tell you something, Dancing does something to your brain. It changes you. It makes you more confident. Let me be blunt. You may not be very good looking, but boy, if you could dance, people waited in line for you. And the dancing at these clubs, it was hot, it was sensual, and man, did it make you sweat with your clothes on. So without even meaning to, it was a big outlet. And packed clubs meant packed wallets for the owners. So the music had to be top notch. Hi, I'm Rosie Perez. After 30 years plus in this business, getting camera ready led to some real long term damage on my hair. My hair has had gotten so dry and brittle that my hair stylist suggested to me that I use K18 mask to help moisturize my hair, to tackle the dryness and at the same time, keep the frizzies away. And the more you use it, the better it gets. Its highly concentrated treatment lasts longer than a traditional mask, and it works in less time with less product and no compromise. I would 100% recommend this to my friend, to my thea, to my cousin, to my entire family, to the entire population of New York City and Puerto Rico combined. Get your hair looking camera ready with K18 mask. Trust me, it works. Shop at Sephora or get 10% off your first purchase at K18hair.com with code SALSA. That's code S ha a l s a18hair.com.

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[Rosie Perez]

So back to our hero story. A young Johnny Pacheco had just signed with Alegre Records and Al Santiago, his first album with the label Pacheco y Sucharanga, was a hit. In one of his early songs, he repeats akuyuye akuyuye, an African term meaning joy or happiness. The percussion is the backbone, still marking that clave ba ba ba ba ba with a cowbell marking the mambo section. The whole song is a party, and mark my word, it made you want to dance mucho swing. Johnny was a genius. He could play everything well. He had refined playing percussion at Juilliard, but thanks to that, he also played clarinet, violin and one of his signatures, the flute.

[Alex Masucci]

Pacheco was incredibly knowledgeable about music.

[Rosie Perez]

That's Bernie Fox, one of Fania's original sound engineers. You heard him up top.

[Alex Masucci]

If Pacheco had to overdub a maraca part or a Guido part on a live recording, he didn't have to look at music. If once he heard the music once, he knew all the breaks, he knew all the everything, and he would just go and play it.

[Rosie Perez]

There was nothing Johnny couldn't do. Johnny even worked on the Tonight show on NBC. So anyway, back to Alegre. After that initial honeymoon phase ended, Johnny realized something was amiss at the label.

[Johnny Pacheco]

We were selling records and the money wasn't coming in they were spending money like it was going out of style. And that really ticked me off.

[Rosie Perez]

So Johnny Pacheco decided he would leave Alegre for bigger dreams. As he told Aurora Flores in an

[Johnny Pacheco]

interview, that I wanted to have the best orchestra ever, getting all the best musicians, putting them together.

[Rosie Perez]

And by this time, Johnny, he was a star. His record had been a hit.

[Aurora Flores]

This record at that time sold over 100,000 copies.

[Rosie Perez]

Making sure you heard that right. 100,000 copies in 1961. This is not streaming sales or digital downloads. This was pushing music on the radio. And physical albums sold without any of the modern tools. To get your name out there, think about that. Johnny was huge, but his personal life was suffering.

[Aurora Flores]

He was getting divorced.

[Rosie Perez]

At the time, Johnny needed a divorce lawyer.

[Aurora Flores]

His divorce lawyer was Jerry Masucci.

[Johnny Pacheco]

It started at a party.

[Rosie Perez]

That's Jerry Masucci, the other central character of our story. He speaks here to author Mary Kent for her book Salsa Talks.

[Johnny Pacheco]

He was with a Leg Ray at the time record, and he was unhappy.

[Rosie Perez]

Johnny met Jerry about the divorce, but soon the two hit it off when they talked about their mutual love for Latin music.

[Alex Masucci]

He's a very charming guy, Jerry, you know, very charming.

[Rosie Perez]

This is Alex Masucci, who you heard from earlier, who is also Jerry's younger brother.

[Alex Masucci]

And he was really a jock. You know, he was always playing ball.

[Rosie Perez]

Jerry and Alex grew up in Brooklyn, New York. Their parents were immigrants from Italy. And Alex remembers that even as a kid, Jerry loved Latin music.

[Alex Masucci]

When I was a kid, we shared a bed. So he would come home and he'd put on Latin music. And I'd say to myself, you know, what the. How come I don't understand? How does he understand this? What is this? Who is this guy? Why is he listening to this?

[Rosie Perez]

Before he was a divorce lawyer or a cop, Jerry was in the Navy, and the Navy sent him to Cuba.

[Johnny Pacheco]

I worked in Havana, so I went to school in Mexico. I was always sort of had a feeling for Latin things.

[Rosie Perez]

Jerry's time in Cuba really left a mark on him. Before the revolution, Havana was ultimately a US playground filled with casinos and clubs and everything that was prohibited or taboo in the US at the time.

[Alex Masucci]

Imagine leaving you live behind a candy store in Brooklyn, and, you know, you're a jock, and, you know, your biggest experience is going in a corner bar, you know, and all of a sudden he's in Havana with Cellia Cruz singing on the corner at a cafe, and all these girls dancing to Latin music and all these clubs. And then they would race, you know, cucarachas between the track. You know, it was just action town. You know, the richest people will say that. And a cab driver who went there with no money would say to somebody, it was a wild town, Havana.

[Rosie Perez]

Jerry got back to New York and tried to find his way.

[Alex Masucci]

He was the youngest cop on the force. He became a cop on his 21st birthday. Jerry was always trying to start businesses. You know, one time he started this. You know, the electric carts that they use now. He had it years ago, and I believe he was traveling around the country with Mario Andretti trying to sell these carts. You know, he was always trying something. And then Jerry met Johnny.

[Rosie Perez]

Johnny Pacheco, who happened to need a divorce and who also happened to be one of the hottest Latin musicians of the time. Soon, Jerry invited Johnny to dinner at the Masucci's one weekend.

[Alex Masucci]

My mother, she worked eight hours a day in a factory sewing pockets. You know what that is? Just go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then she would cook. She'd make antipodes pasta that was like. It was like a piece of art, you know, she'd roll all the salami up, put it in certain spots, and it was amazing. And then she'd make pasta, sausages, meatballs, brajol. And then she'd make chicken cutlets. So one day, Johnny comes over. I was sitting outside, My mother was coming for a Sunday dinner. And all of a sudden this Mercedes pulls up, you know, and there were no Mercedes in my neighborhood. I don't even know if I knew what a Mercedes was. And Johnny gets out, and Mona gets out, his second wife. And she was gorgeous. I mean, really. I'll never forget when she got out of that car.

[Rosie Perez]

And then it became official. Here's Jerry again.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Johnny said, I want to start. Started wrecking him. So we became partners.

[Rosie Perez]

Jerry had teamed up with Johnny to create Bania Records, a new label that they said would be favorable to musicians. One that would be like a family.

[Alex Masucci]

My mother and father gave them the money to do the album, which was a lot of money for them to give. You know, they were making $28 a week.

[Rosie Perez]

The Masucci's mom gave them $2,500, and they were off. Johnny would serve as musical director, and Jerry would handle the business side. Even if at first that was a work in progress.

[Alex Masucci]

He didn't know anything about the music business. You know, they opened up a phone book.

[Johnny Pacheco]

I got the yellow pages out and called up the recording studio and jacket place, label place, and we made a record together.

[Rosie Perez]

Johnny And Jerry. Jerry and Johnny, a real dynamic duo.

[Alex Masucci]

Johnny is probably one of the most talented showmen in the history of the business. An incredible songwriter, fabulous food player, and a wonderful guy, you know, I mean, I don't think either one of them could have done it without each other, period. Jerry was a true fan of the music. He really got into the music big time.

[Rosie Perez]

Harvey, a popular music producer and musician.

[Alex Masucci]

Fania. The name Fania is a coffee shop in Cuba where a lot of guys want to hang out.

[Rosie Perez]

There's some debate about that name. Johnny has stuck by his version in many interviews that the name came from a Cuban song called Vanilla Bunche, originally written by Reynaldo Bolanos. He also said that there was a Cuban group called Pania.

[Johnny Pacheco]

It was a group of individuals in Cuba that they had this club and was for good players only. And the name attracted me so much, I put Pania instead of Pania Fania. I said, this will sound not only good to the Spanish, but to Americans. They would say pania Records.

[Rosie Perez]

Whatever the reason, the name Pania stuck, I'll take it. Harvey got involved right from the onset through a mutual bandmate. One of Fania's first artists, Larry Harlow,

[Alex Masucci]

my bookkeeper was Larry Harlow's mother. Okay. Larry comes to see his mother during the day and tell her about that. He just signed a contract with this new record company owned by an Italian lawyer and Pacheco. He said, harvey, you want to meet this guy, Jerry Masuchi, I think you two would get along. As Jerry said, I want to continue my law practice and put all the money I make into Fania. I believe in Fania.

[Rosie Perez]

So the two co founders now have a name, some producers and a couple of artists. Fania Records was up and running, sort of.

[Alex Masucci]

There were so many record labels on 10th Avenue, you know, just in storefronts. And we were in a. Basically in a broom closet in Jerry's law office, you know. You know, we didn't sell a lot of records.

[Rosie Perez]

Canyonaso was the first of Pacheco's albums released on the new Fania label. With 11 dance tunes. This marked the beginning of an era. They didn't even have space to store the LPs. Remember, we're talking about physical products, giant heavy boxes. A team of two. They would deliver the records, sometimes out of the back of Johnny's own car. One person to watch the car and one to deliver the merchandise. If, you know, New York City, you know, parking was a bitch even back then. Here's Johnny Pacheco again.

[Johnny Pacheco]

I used to do Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And Jerry used to be Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. We used to get in my car and put all the records. We used to go to every store delivering our own records.

[Rosie Perez]

Despite Johnny already being a pretty big deal. Here he was in the middle of winter distributing records himself. And people got a kick out of him.

[Johnny Pacheco]

It was cold like hell and my nose was running. And one guy said, look where Pacheco Lando beats making deliveries. And he took out a dollar bill. He gave it to me and I took it. Every cent that came in. We put it back into the business.

[Rosie Perez]

All of that paid off because the public took notice.

[Johnny Pacheco]

Here's Jerry, and it just all came together, checking on another record. And we found new guys. And all of a sudden, bingo.

[Rosie Perez]

Jerry and Johnny were able to get it played on the radio because Jerry was well connected through his day job as a law and a cop. And Johnny knew all the DJs.

[Alex Masucci]

Thanks for tuning in.

[Rosie Perez]

Between the two of them, they knew everyone. The public was into what they were selling because it was different. Because like we said earlier, the demographics were changing. Aurora remembers the first time she noticed the change.

[Aurora Flores]

So I'm listening to Symphony Sid one night, and I hear a conga. I hear a lot of music, but I'm hearing this guy. But I'm saying, wait a minute. He's not singing about the farm. He's not singing about the chicken and the rooster. He's singing about the projects. He's singing about riots. He's singing about us.

[Rosie Perez]

This new generation of kids dubbed the sneaker generation was ready for change in society and in music. But with the flavor they grew up listening to at home. By 1966, the palladium ship shuttered its stores and Fanio Records was poised to take the city by storm. But as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Coming up this season, that night at

[Alex Masucci]

the Cheetah, they just played un fucking believable Boris Levy.

[Johnny Pacheco]

It's somebody you didn't mess with, you know, wanted things his way, if they were legal or not.

[Alex Masucci]

Our rhythm is directly African. We cannot continue to act as if this is just Latin music. This is African music.

[Aurora Flores]

La Lupe was the queen of Latin soul, different from Celia.

[Alex Masucci]

Why is it, Jerry, that you promote the commercial bands?

[Rosie Perez]

Why aren't you promoting the black bands? Fania is making money in every direction.

Johnny was very hurt because Johnny trusted him.

[Johnny Pacheco]

If you sold 100, that was unheard of. We sold millions, didn't make a nickel, not a fucking penny. I never made muscle nuts.

[Alex Masucci]

I said holy shit, I'm Joe Bhattan. I ain't got the money to pay for the flat tire.

[Rosie Perez]

Can't wait for the next episode. Join Futuro for early access to the whole season ad, free listening and exclusive bonus content for our thing the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York. Go to futuromediagroup.org joinplus to get access today. Our thing, the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York is an original podcast from Futuro Studios. It was made possible by the Mellon Foundation. Our senior producer is Jeannie Montalvo. Our episodes were written, reported and produced by her and Mark Pagan. The episodes were edited by Maria Garcia. Additional editing by Marlon Bishop. Our post producer is Joaquin Cutler. He and Jeannie Montalvo sound designed our episodes. Our associate producer is Liliana Ruiz. Our production managers are Francis Poon, Jessica Ellis and Victoria Estrada. Mixing by Stephanie Lebeau, Julia Caruso and JJ Kurubin. Fact checking by Tatiana Diaz and additional booking by Javier Reyes. Editorial consultation by Ernesto Lechner. Special thanks to Aroa Flores, Martin Cohen, Alex Masuchi, Mariso Negron, Mary Kent and Ernesto Lucar. Special thanks to Craft Recordings, a Concord Company theme song and original music by Ella Brick. Additional music courtesy of David Frankel and Avanita Bay. Yours Truly. Recorded at Bridge Studios in Brooklyn by Jura Jovanovich and at full English post by Charles Atangana and Ben Steiner. Special thanks to my manager Tar Canafati of Strand Entertainment Entertainment and my Glam Squad hair Johnny Lavoie and makeup Karen Dupich. Executive produced for Futuro Studios by Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia from Concord Records. Executive producers are Bruce McIntosh and Wesley Adams. Show art by Jose Hosto Ostolaza. Original show concept by Marlon Bishop and Jeannie Montalvo. Legal review by Neil Rossini, Michael Martin Lindhoist and Jonathan Fisher of Legal Arts. Our marketing team includes Anelo Reyes and Luis Luna. Futuro Media was founded by Maria Hinojosa. I'm your host and resident Nuyorican Rosie Perez. You can hear all the music featured in this episode and this song season on our Spotify Music playlist. We've got links in our show notes and don't forget to tap the heart to save it to your library because we'll be adding to it each week and make sure you follow our thing the Birth of Salsa in Nueva York on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.

That was episode one of our the Birth of Salsa in Nova York hosted by Rosie Perez. If you enjoyed it, you can find the next episode available right now on the show feed, which is all about the real and not so real gangsters behind Fania. Just search for our thing the birth of Salsa in Nueva York on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Y gracias. Not the Bayas

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