Parole & The Pursuit of Happiness - Ep. 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: Suave – "Parole & The Pursuit of Happiness" (Ep. 2)

Episode Overview

In the second episode of Season 2, titled "Parole & The Pursuit of Happiness," hosted by Futuro Media, listeners delve deep into the ongoing struggles of former juvenile lifer, David Luis Suave Gonzalez, as he navigates life seven years after his release from prison. Despite apparent stability—career advancements, a committed relationship, and public recognition—Suave grapples with the complex reality of freedom under lifetime parole. This episode explores the enduring impact of incarceration on Suave's mental state, daily routines, relationships, and his relentless pursuit of true happiness.

---

Life Post-Incarceration: The Illusion of Freedom

The episode opens with Suave's candid admission of feeling confined despite his physical freedom. At [01:37], he states:

"Sometimes I do think that I was better off locked up. And that's hard to say, but it's the truth."

This sentiment encapsulates Suave's internal struggle with the lasting psychological effects of a prolonged prison sentence. Although released, Suave feels as though he's still serving time, trapped by the stringent conditions of his parole.

---

Daily Restrictions and Mental Struggles

Suave's apartment, though modest, symbolizes a "high-class prison cell" ([03:16]), highlighting the stark contrast between his past confinement and present living conditions. He details the difficulties in adjusting to everyday life:

"Sometimes I just take a sheet or quilt, put it on the floor and lay on the floor." [03:59]

These actions reflect his lingering prison habits, making it challenging to find comfort in his newfound freedom.

The concept of "count time," a prison routine of waking up at a specific hour, persists in his daily life:

"Every morning at home, it's almost the same thing. I get up, Bella and me are on count time together." [04:13]

This adherence to prison-like schedules underscores the deep-seated impact of incarceration on his daily routines.

---

The Harsh Reality of Lifetime Parole

The core of the episode centers around the constraints of Suave's lifetime parole. At [07:05], Suave explains:

"And that means basically, you still incarcerated. You just serving your time out in society."

Suave enumerates the numerous restrictions imposed by his parole, emphasizing the limitations on his personal freedoms:

• Movement Restrictions: "I can't travel without permission. I can't move from one house to another without asking permission." [07:42]
• Social Limitations: "I can't be around certain people. I can't go to certain establishments." [07:58]
• Substance Prohibitions: "I can't drink. I cannot smoke a little bit of weed or smoke me a Philly blunt." [08:06]

These rules create a perpetual sense of confinement, making Suave's freedom conditional and fragile.

---

Anxiety and Fear in Everyday Activities

Suave's fear extends to mundane activities like driving. He expresses intense anxiety about being stopped by police:

"I am really, really, really afraid to get stopped by the police. The minute they stop you and they find out you on parole, you're getting handcuffs now, your car getting searched..." [10:23]

This fear significantly restricts his ability to perform everyday tasks, such as running errands, without relying on others for assistance.

---

Legal Obstacles to Release from Parole

The episode explores the arduous process of seeking release from lifetime parole. Suave mentions the need to file for "complete commutation from the Pardon Board" ([11:03]), which requires:

1. Attorney General's Vote: A preliminary approval.
2. Unanimous Support: Garnering unanimous votes before escalating to the governor.

Suave reflects on the improbability of this process:

"It's almost like hitting the lottery." [11:17]

With nearly seven years served, Suave remains uncertain about his prospects for obtaining true freedom.

---

Social and Emotional Isolation

Suave's relationships, especially with former prison friends, illustrate the profound changes since his release. A poignant moment occurs when Suave recounts a barbecue with old friends where potential parole violations nearly surfaced:

"We started off singing karaoke with Hector Labor, and we had a few drinks." [12:31]

Fortunately, the situation didn't escalate, but it underscores the constant vigilance required to maintain compliance.

Suave grapples with the emotional toll of distancing from old friends who no longer share his parole-bound reality:

"Sometimes it just feels like, damn, I'm jealous." [16:57]

This jealousy stems from seeing friends on parole continuing their lives without the same restrictions, highlighting his feelings of being perpetually tethered to his past.

---

Atlanta Visit: A Glimpse into His Dual Reality

The narrative shifts to Suave's visit to Atlanta, where he attends a criminal justice reform conference and an artist showcase at Stanconia Studios. Despite initial excitement, Suave's encounter with a potentially dangerous environment exacerbates his anxiety:

"If somebody bumps into me, I got to be the one to bitch up and be like, oh, my bad..." [20:23]

The abundance of guns and the volatile atmosphere in Atlanta forces Suave to leave swiftly, fearing parole violations and personal safety threats.

---

Parole as a Double-Edged Sword

In a thought-provoking twist, Suave considers parole as both a restriction and a protective structure:

"I gotta have structure. I can't be, like, free to go. Just do what you see, what you think is best." [26:25]

He acknowledges that without the guidelines provided by parole, he might relapse into detrimental behaviors:

"I know that if I didn't have that safety net or rope, I don't know, I'd probably be in some other shit..." [26:25]

This duality presents parole as both a cage and a lifeline, offering safety at the cost of autonomy.

---

Navigating Identity and Relationships

Suave reflects on his transformed identity post-incarceration, struggling to reconcile his past persona with his current constrained existence. He expresses discomfort with newfound roles in relationships:

"How is it that I became the mother figure in your fucking life? Because that's not what I want to be." [28:45]

This role reversal signifies the complexities of rebuilding relationships under the shadow of his parole conditions.

---

Conclusion: The Perpetual Struggle for True Freedom

"Parole & The Pursuit of Happiness" poignantly captures Suave's ongoing battle between the desire for absolute freedom and the reality of his constrained existence under lifetime parole. The episode underscores the enduring impact of incarceration, the psychological barriers to true reintegration, and the delicate balance Suave maintains between compliance and personal fulfillment.

As the episode concludes, Suave's struggles serve as a powerful commentary on the broader issues of the criminal justice system and the challenges faced by those seeking to rebuild their lives after long-term incarceration.

---

Notable Quotes

• Suave on Feeling Trapped:
  "Sometimes I do think that I was better off locked up. And that's hard to say, but it's the truth." [01:37]

• On Lifetime Parole:
  "And that means basically, you still incarcerated. You just serving your time out in society." [07:05]

• Expressing Anxiety About Driving:
  "I am really, really, really afraid to get stopped by the police. The minute they stop you and they find out you on parole, you're getting handcuffs now..." [10:23]

• On Parole as Structure:
  "I gotta have structure. I can't be, like, free to go. Just do what you see, what you think is best." [26:25]

• Reflecting on Identity:
  "When it comes to friends, I don't even know what that is. I come from a place where there is no friends." [28:39]

---

Closing Remarks

This episode of Suave provides a deeply intimate look into the life of a man striving for happiness while tethered by the long shadow of parole. Through Suave's narrative, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities surrounding life after incarceration and the elusive quest for genuine freedom.

Transcript

[Julieta Martinelli]

Season two of Suave was made possible by the Mellon Foundation. Mellon makes grants to support visionaries and communities that unlock the power of the arts and humanities. To help connect us all [e-mail] When I founded Futuro, I imagined a home for journalism with radical transparency. I wanted a newsroom where I wasn't the only Latina behind the mic. Now Futuro is becoming a home for more voices than ever. Help grow this future by joining our new membership program. You'll get exclusive interviews whole season binges behind the scenes chisme shape the future of storytelling. Join Futuro Plus Visit our website FuturoMediaGroup.org joinplus ET Not Eva's.

[Maria Garcia]

Swave is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Sometimes I do think that I was better off locked up. And that's hard to say, but it's the truth. You know it's the truth and, and whoever been locked up 31 years or more and tell you otherwise, it's lying. They lying. I'm still living. I still live. Like I'm in prison, like locked up. I like I'm in my jail cell. You know, that's the scary part for me because I haven't been able to shake it off another day in this world. 5:00 in the morning, just getting up. Bella, Bella, I'mma whip your ass.

[Maria Garcia]

Bella Suave, formerly one of the hardest guys on the block at Greaterford Prison. Now a doting cat.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Dad, man, Bella just snuck in the bed and tucked in under my arms when I was sleeping. Got hair all over my black sheets.

[Julieta Martinelli]

And this cat she's got got an adorable wardrobe of yes, pink dresses.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'll get her these little outfits. I think it's so cute. I don't think Bella understands she's a girl. So I'll put pink on her to let her know, like look at yourself in the mirror. You are a girl.

[Maria Garcia]

Bella Suave's studio apartment is pretty tiny, but after decades in a small cell, Suave says it felt kind of palatial when he moved in. He calls his apartment a high class prison cell.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I don't need a whole lot. It's better than a house for me.

[Maria Garcia]

Unlike a prison cell though, there's a big fluffy bed here. Also, it's kind of Bella's bed. But after sleeping on a three inch mattress over a metal slab for three decades, he can't really get comfortable on this bed sometimes.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

And, you know, I don't even tell people this, but sometimes I just take a sheet or quilt, put it on the floor and lay on the floor.

[Maria Garcia]

It turns out it's harder than it seems to break some prison habits.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

In prison, you gotta get up and the guard walk around and make sure you physically there. They blow a bullhorn like 10 minutes before they come around. Count time. Count time. That's what they would yell. Every morning at home, it's almost the same thing. I get up, Bella and me are on count time together.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You know, I always worry about Suave's sleeping situation. It's kind of weird. It's one of the things that I'm like, is he sleeping? And lately he's been telling me that he's sleeping even less. And, you know, he jokes about it, actually. I think he's kind of like showing off because, you know, he's working a bunch of jobs and there's always something going on and it's a thing.

[Maria Garcia]

And Maria, you've offered him some advice that has helped you sleep.

[Julieta Martinelli]

I worry because you're like, I've been up all night, haven't slept, and I do have some cannabis pills that will knock you out.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Well, I appreciate the cannabis, right? But also I just want to make you aware and the whole team that if I do take some cannabis, whether it's medically or not, you are like saying, we see you in about six months because that's like a direct violation for parole.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Oh, my God. I'm sorry.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

So I'm g. Stay away from that one.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Damn, bro.

[Maria Garcia]

From Futura Studios, this is Suave. I'm Julieta Martinelli. In 2017, David Luis Suave Gonzalez was released from prison after 31 years, serving a life sentence without parole. He was one of thousands of juvenile lifers granted a second chance at life. This is a story about life after incarceration and the search for the true meaning of freedom. This is season two. On this episode, the Long Shadow of Parole.

[Julieta Martinelli]

So, you know, Julieta, I don't know if this happens to you, but at this point, I've been checking in with Suave basically weekly, if not multiple times a week for years now. And, you know, it's like, you can forget that this guy is still essentially governed by a very strict set of rules that keep him tethered, like, emotionally, psychologically, spiritually to this prison. Past. And, you know, it's bigger than sleeping on the floor or waking up for count time. I mean, it's deep.

[Maria Garcia]

You're right. Because seven years out, Suave is still on parole, and he will be forever. And that's because he has lifetime parole.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

And that means basically, you still incarcerated. You just serving your time out in society.

[Julieta Martinelli]

The thing is that even though Suave is free on parole, he still technically has a life sentence, but he just gets to serve it on the outside.

[Maria Garcia]

Yeah. And he can be so nonchalant about it. I mean, but the reality still is that freedom is a privilege for Suave. And that privilege can be taken away from pretty much for anything.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah. So we asked him to actually list some of the rules that he has to follow forever.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I can't travel without permission. I can't move from one house to another house without asking permission.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You really can't have any interaction with the police.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I can't be around certain people. I can't go to certain establishment.

[Maria Garcia]

Right. So he's banned forever from visiting anyone in prison that he was incarcerated with, even if it's family.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I can't drink. I cannot smoke a little bit of weed or smoke me a Philly blunt.

[Julieta Martinelli]

And that's even though alcohol is legal for any adult. And that weed has been decriminalized in Philly, but not for Suave.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Can't do that, because if they take the urine and it come up hot, it's a violation.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Oh, yeah. Also, he has to pay them for this privilege.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

You paying the parole board a monthly fee to supervise you for what?

[Julieta Martinelli]

For someone on the outside just imagining living with all of these rules, it sounds entirely crazy. Suave has to be perfect 100% of the time, because Cualquier cosita, any little thing, can literally change the course of his life in an instant.

[Maria Garcia]

Yeah. That means that even the most mundane of things that you and I never think of in our daily life can become really, really scary for Suave.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Today is probably the first time I take my car out in six months. Out to a drive. I'm fucking nervous. I'm shaking. I get anxiety.

[Maria Garcia]

It's a weekday, and Suave usually takes the SEPTA bus to get to work at Community College of Philadelphia. But today he's got so many errands, it's just not feasible to take the bus.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

For a lot of people, driving is something they look forward to doing. Not me. Not me. I hate fucking driving. I hate it. I don't know how to deal with my anxiety when I'm behind the wheel, my anxiety take over to the point where I just want to crash the car somewhere and stop and get out and leave it running. So I just don't drive. I just don't drive.

[Maria Garcia]

It's a sunny day, and Suave is riding in his gray Hyundai. He's wearing a gray suit with a black shirt underneath. He's sitting close to the wheel, and he's holding it pretty tight.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I am really, really, really afraid to get stopped by the police. The minute they stop you and they find out you on parole, you're getting handcuffs now, your car getting searched, and if you don't report that traffic stop to parole, it's a violation of your conditions and they could lock you up.

[Maria Garcia]

The anxiety is so bad that Suave ends up asking a friend to drive him home that night. But there is some hope for the future. Technically, there is some legal recourse that could allow Suave to get off of lifetime parole, even if it's kind of a long shot.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

We gotta file for complete commutation from the Pardon Board.

[Maria Garcia]

Commutation just means that the remaining term of his sentence is completely forgiven. But it's not easy to get.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

It's almost like hitting the lottery. You gotta have the Attorney General's vote and then unanimous vote, basically, before it gets to the governor's office. And then he gotta consider it.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Like, not easy at all.

[Maria Garcia]

The Board of Pardons doesn't state just how long after a conviction they'll consider a pardon. They just mentioned that they do consider the length of time. But a report by the Community Legal Services of Philadelphia who work with clients that are going through this process confirms that the majority of people who are successful have been out of prison for about five to 10 years, depending on the offense.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I'm coming up on my seven years in November.

[Maria Garcia]

It might be impossible, but maybe, just maybe, would that feel like true freedom?

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Good afternoon.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Good afternoon. God, I haven't talked to you in a long time, Matt.

[Maria Garcia]

We used to talk all the time.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Listen, I'm gonna tell you, don't laugh at this, please. Well, you could laugh.

[Julieta Martinelli]

So, on this Sunday afternoon, Suave calls me like he usually does, and he tells me about his weekend. Tells me that he was hanging out with a group of guys that he knew from prison, that they showed up to his place for a barbecue, and, you know, these are guys that he used to be locked up with.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

So we started off singing karaoke with Hector labor, and we had a few drinks.

[Maria Garcia]

Oh, no. That. Oh, no. Why did you say that, Maria?

[Julieta Martinelli]

At that moment, I'm like, por favor, no, no, no, no, no. Because, you know, you can't. And then I'm all like, oh, my God. What happens if parole calls him right now at this precise moment? But, you know, the good news is that the story didn't end up going in that direction.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

And guess what song we end up singing? Menulo Su Wa. I swear to God.

[Julieta Martinelli]

And then he tells me that, like, one of his friends had her phone out at that moment, and then she.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Recorded me dancing to Marc Anthony.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Dancing salsa.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I was drunk. Oh, my God. Swabi.

[Julieta Martinelli]

I can't believe you got drunk. I can't believe you got drunk. I've never seen drunk Suave.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Listen, I really enjoy having two or three of my friends that we've done time with. You know, my friend says something to me. He was like, damn, we walk the prison yard together for decades, and now we sitting in your backyard drinking beer and eating burnt hot dogs. And they taste good.

[Julieta Martinelli]

You know, it was really sweet just hearing Suave tell this story with so much joy and happiness.

[Maria Garcia]

But Suave doesn't always enjoy getting together with his prison friends. Part of it is parole, and it can be risky to be around people that are drinking or smoking weed around you, but that's not really it. It's because it can get complicated for him emotionally.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I don't have the desire to meet with guys that I did 30, 40.

[Maria Garcia]

Years after telling me that. Suave sits with this thought for a minute. Then he backtracks. It's not about not wanting to see the guys, but.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

But. But a lot of it has to do with y'all not on parole. I'm on parole. It's like a reality check. Like, bro, you really not free. Bro, you really not free. You just alone for the ride.

[Maria Garcia]

So former juvenile lifers like Suave, they're all on parole. But most people who go to prison, they're going for shorter terms, so they're actually coming out with a clean slate after their sentence. And many of Suave's prison buddies don't really have to worry about parole. After decades of supporting each other in prison, the rules that guide their lives are now very different.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah, I mean, Suave tells me that he's starting to find it harder and harder to relate and that for a long time, these were the only people in his life who could really understand him. But it's changing.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Sometimes it feels like, wow, damn, man. I deserve that chance more than you. I get that feeling sometimes, like, you got a chance and you ain't Doing shit with it, man. I deserve that chance more than you.

[Maria Garcia]

It sounds harsh, but I wonder, what does it feel, feel like to know the people on the outside can't ever really understand how you feel? And then Suave, his prison friends who are supposed to understand, well, they're moving on themselves.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Sometimes if it. Oh, man, why is I'm saying this on tape, man? But sometimes it just feels. It just feel like, damn, I'm jealous. Like the.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Foreign.

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[Maria Garcia]

In January, I meet up with Suave in Atlanta, where I live. Suave is in town to speak at a criminal justice reform conference. Over the last five years that I've been producing Suave, I've gone to Philly a lot, but we never really hung out in my turf. So we are in front of a Waffle House right in front of Centennial Olympic Park.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

It's Atlanta, man. I love it down here.

[Maria Garcia]

And while he's in town, we've been invited to an artist showcase at the infamous Stanconia Studios. So Suave seems really excited.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Okay, so I know I'm supposed to know what Stanconia Studios is, but I don't. So what is it?

[Maria Garcia]

Stanconia is the most Atlanta of all Atlanta places. I mean, it's just this legendary studio where outkast recorded a bunch of classics. Honestly, it's pretty iconic, Maria. Everyone from TLC to TI to Ludacris have recorded there.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Oh, my God. So, like, Suave, big hip hop head. I mean, he's just gotta be like, wait, what? I get to go to the studio?

[Maria Garcia]

Yeah, he was, you know, and anyway, so we decide to meet there. And that night, as I'm getting ready to head out, Suave just suddenly stops responding to all my phone calls.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message.

[Maria Garcia]

So the next day, I finally hear back from him, and it turns out he did go, but he was out of there so fast, and he just didn't know how to explain it to me, so he just ignored my calls. So I asked him why. I mean, like, what's up? What happened? We had all These plans. And then he just left me hanging.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

We go through the door and you like in this space, high stage, spaceship smoke dj. It was like going into an Outcast Rack video. Like, for real. It was like being in a video. But then the crowd, the energy, it's like, whoa. I met my friend's friend. He, you know, what's up, bro? You good? You know, you with me? But I see the buzz in his waistline. Like, I'm like, everybody in here has a gun.

[Maria Garcia]

And the thing is, you know, a lot of people in Atlanta carry a gun. It's kind of become normal for me. You know, open carry is legal here in Georgia. So I had never really considered that Suave might find it risky or even like upsetting until this moment.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

If somebody bump into me, I got to be the one to bitch up and be like, oh, my bad, you know, because I'm probably the only one there not packing. You get loud with somebody in Atlanta, you might get shot. Seriously. So I'm like, nah, I'm cool, I'm out. I don't like being in them places where I feel defenseless.

[Maria Garcia]

And of course he has to think about his lifetime parole.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Something jump off. Dude, what was you even doing in that room? That's the first thing the parole gonna say.

[Julieta Martinelli]

The thing is, Suave is right. Anything going sideways here could land him back in prison. So better just to get out of.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

There, you know, I'm not hanging with little Ray Ray and Raheem from down the block. I'm not now. When I came home, I wanted that. I wanted that 17 year old life. I wanted what I missed when I went to jail, minus standing in the corner. But I like, I liked that shit. I like that smoke. I like, I like that urban excitement where I could be in the corner and hear gunshots and. But I'm not involved with it. But I like that shit, you know, I still do.

[Maria Garcia]

I mean, think about what he said about the guns before he went to prison. He used to be one of these guys, packing, talking, bold, just fearless. You know how he is. But now he really can't be that way anymore. The risk is too big. So it's interesting and also even a little confusing. Suave has to live by all these rules, but he also pushes back on them regularly.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Somebody might say, well, that's a dangerous game. They could violate your truth. Those are the consequences that come with you making certain actions, man. So I do a lot of stuff that I'm not supposed to do only because I want to feel human.

[Julieta Martinelli]

When he says this, like, it really does click for me. Yeah, we're like, it's always this balance, right, of how we live out there in the world. And in some ways, I kind of think that we've gotten a little comfortable with the risks that Suave takes. I mean, the drinking or not paying his parole fees on time. And it's kind of like, haha, you know, move on. Haha. But the reality is that Suave is doing constant risk assessment, deciding how much to break the rules, when and where, how much can he live with, and how much of this actually gives him life. And for me, it's always like, yo, bro, why? Why? Why take that risk? And you can see Suave struggling. And, you know, I think about his past. Is he a rule follower? No. I mean, absolutely not. That has not been his identity. And I can see he's feeling this disconnect between his new friends and his old friends, his new life and his old life. He's somewhere in the middle, wrestling with this new identity.

[Maria Garcia]

Later that day in Atlanta, Suave and I sit across from each other at the hotel lobby. He's wearing a cream hoodie with a pair of matching joggers, cream and mint green sneakers, and of course, a Yankees hat. And he tells me a story about a friend from inside who just got out of prison.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

A couple of days ago. My homie just came home.

[Maria Garcia]

He was able to work out a release without lifetime parole.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

This dude was like, my brother. I got him a job. He told me straight up, I'm not gonna work for them. No. You know, they're not paying me enough. And, you know, I left the conversation there because the guy's like, my brother, right?

[Maria Garcia]

But then the conversation went into some pretty interesting territory.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

But then I'm thinking, like, he had no restrictions. He had no parole, so he free to go anywhere he want to go. That's dangerous. Know why it's dangerous? Because he could say, I don't want to work nowhere.

[Maria Garcia]

You said he came home, he's not on parole. That's dangerous. That really caught my ear.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

It's dangerous.

[Maria Garcia]

Oh, that's a loaded sentence. I want to talk a little more about that because we've been talking about, you know, how to get you off lifetime parole and the.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

See, but I mean, I keep telling you, I'm institutionalized, right? And what I mean by institutional lives, I do things in patterns. A, B, C. I can't do things with A and then C. Cause I'm like, what happened to B? What was B? What I was Supposed to do in B. That's because I'm institutionalized. When you not on parole, you can say, all right, cool. I'm gonna sleep all day. And then tomorrow I'm gonna go ahead and smoke some weed. I can't do that shit.

[Maria Garcia]

So what if you had come home without parole? Are you saying that you wouldn't be in. That you would be in a worse position? I'm really curious about this.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Yeah, I probably would have been in a fucked up predicament. Cause I like to do fucked up shit.

[Maria Garcia]

For so long, Suave has talked about parole as something getting in the way of his ability to succeed and feeling truly free. Another hurdle, another tie to the past.

[Julieta Martinelli]

But this time, Suave is saying that maybe in some ways, it's actually parole that has led him to a lot of the good things about his life right now.

[Maria Garcia]

And, you know, that's kind of a complicated concept for me to grasp in that moment. I have never heard you say this. This is really shocking for me.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

No, it is. You know, you gotta be true with yourself.

[Maria Garcia]

I have to ask you, is there a part of you that maybe fears getting off of lifetime parole? Let's be real.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

No, no, no. I don't fear it.

[Maria Garcia]

Maybe. Okay, so maybe fear is not the word, but is there a part of you that maybe feels like it's a little safer in this moment, for now, to stay on lifetime parole?

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I wouldn't say safer. I say it's more structured. That's fair to say. I gotta have structure. I can't be, like, free to go. Just do what you see, what you think is best. It's not gonna work. It won't work for me because I know, and I really. I hate to say this on tape, man, but it's the truth. Like, I know that if I didn't have that safety net up to rope, I don't know, I'd probably be in some other shit, man, because. Because I'm real emotional and I like to act on those emotions. And I. I realized that nobody got to tell me that. So it's. It's like a balance. It's like a balance, like we keeping you safe, bro.

[Maria Garcia]

Suave found a way to free himself from his cage, only to find himself trapped in a completely new one. As long as he's on parole, he'll never be able to just do what he wants. Take a spontaneous trip, drive without looking over his shoulder. Even take a little weed gummy for some sleep. But what does it mean for Suave that this new cage is Also kind of a safety net. Is total freedom what he really desires after all all those years in a jail cell, many of them in solitary confinement. I mean, it has to change you pretty profoundly. And one of the hardest things for Suave since getting out is navigating relationships.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

When it comes to friends, I don't even know what that is. I come from a place where there is no friends.

[Julieta Martinelli]

How is it that I became the mother figure in your fucking life? Because that's not what I want to be.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Well, you know what?

[Julieta Martinelli]

No, no.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

I know why I don't like people don't nothing.

[Julieta Martinelli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Luis Suave Gonzalez]

Because later on they throw it in your face.

[Maria Garcia]

That's next time on Suave. Suave is a production of Futuro Studios to binge every episode of Suave Season 2 right now, plus exclusive bonus episodes. Subscribe to Futuro Plus. The Senior Producer, reporter and host is me, Julieta Martinelli. Our associate producer is Liliana Ruiz. We're edited by Marlon Bishop. Our production managers are Jessica Ellis and Nancy Trujillo. Our post production producer is Dan Riveros. Scoring in sound design by Stephanie Lebeau. Mixing by Stephanie Lebeau, Julia Caruso and J.J. carubin. Our fact checker is Amy Tardif. Production help from Joaquin Kotler, Juan Diego Ramirez, Nicole Rothwell, Joey Del Valle, Evelyn Fajardo Alvarez, Glori Marquez and Tasha Sandoval. Our executive producers are Marieno Rosa, Luis Suave Gonzalez, Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Futura Media was founded by Marie Hinojosa. Special thanks to Maggie Freeling, Audrey Quinn, Antonia Seregido, Fernanda Echabarri, Neil Rossini. Students at the I Am More program at the Community College of Philadelphia, the Abolitionist Law Center, Community Legal Services of Philadelphia and the Campaign for the Fair Sentencing of Youth. Season two of Suave was made possible by the Mellon Foundation. Mellon makes grants to support divisionaries and communities that unlocked the power of the arts and humanities to help connect us all. [e-mail] Season 2 of Suave was made possible in part by Public Welfare foundation catalyzing transformative approaches to justice that are community led, restorative and racially. Just.

[Julieta Martinelli]

From PRX.