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- [00:01]
A
We're doing something historic. I am in the Futuro offices and we are recording the first ever, ever, ever, ever bonus episode for the Suave podcast. So, Suave, welcome to your bonus podcast.
- [00:14]
B
And I'm honored to deliver this to the fans.
- [00:17]
A
I love it. Yes, Suave. This is special. It is only for people who are subscribers to Futuro Plus.
- [00:24]
B
Ya better ask me later on. What happened? Tell me about it behind the scenes. This is it. Subscribe.
- [00:31]
A
If they're listening to this, Rabe, it's because they've already signed up.
- [00:34]
B
And I know you listening. So sign up right now.
- [00:37]
A
They already signed up.
- [00:38]
B
And if you already signed up, tell your friends. Share it. Tell your friends to sign up. This is it. You don't want to miss this part of history.
- [00:48]
A
The truth is, Suave, and you and I know this, right? Suave Season 2. There were a lot of things that happened that we are going to reveal little by little to our subscribers, right? That made it so that it took years. But there is something that happened that really stands out. It is kind of the heart of this season because it is a real turning point. So, dear listener, something happened actually on Sunday night. It's Monday morning right now, when we're recording, I get this text from Suave. And, you know, you just sent this last night, but I'm gonna read it. I wrote it, I'm gonna read it back.
- [01:35]
B
How did I know you was gonna read that text?
- [01:37]
A
Oh, man. How did you know? All right, so it says, hey, happy Sunday. I just listened to episode five and I just wanna take this time and express my deepest apology to you and Julieta for putting you through that drama. You and Julieta didn't deserve that. At the same time, thank you for being a true friend who care about me. Yes, at one time, you loved to say that we weren't friends. You were right. We family. After what I heard on episode five, I have no doubts. Thanks for being in my life, suave, Mr. Pulitzer. And I was like, oh, my God, the rollercoaster. Suave, your car disappears and you get very upset about your car disappearing because the police don't want to help you. You feel like the police don't want to help you. You want to try to get your car back. And the thing that really comes out, which is, to me, very powerful, Suave is. And I'll never forget when you said this, you said in prison, I was the man. I was the OG in that prison. Nobody could take shit from me if I had half a bar of soap. Nobody Touched that half bar of soap. Suddenly you're on the street, something is taken from you, and you can't react because people know, right? You are on lifetime parole. You are walking a tightrope the whole time, you. And we don't want to go back and talk about what happened with the car. We want to talk about why you wanted to write that text to me now, today.
- [03:17]
B
I could tell you it wasn't even about a car. It wasn't even about a car. The car was just an excuse that creeped up on me. And, you know, you tell yourself stories, but it was about the trauma. It was about trauma that I never dealt with since I was incarcerated or after incarceration. It was about that trauma. And that trauma just popped up. Like I told you before, it's easy for people in the outside to say, oh, man, he's living a wonderful life. He's doing good. He's doing this and he's doing that. But nobody ever asks, like, yo, are you sleeping? Are you eating? Are you treating that trauma? You do, but sometimes I don't. Sometimes I just don't. Definitely.
- [04:01]
A
Definitely.
- [04:02]
B
Because you. Too close. Yeah, too close. And that's just.
- [04:04]
A
And it sounds like a bother when I ask you if you're sleeping.
- [04:07]
B
It really does not. No more. But it. At one time, it did. Like, oh, my God, it comes my eye again. But it's about the trauma. And what people don't understand is that when that trauma creep up, this is what happens. You use any little excuse, you tell yourself these stories, and you start believing them stories, and then everything goes downhill.
- [04:31]
A
This is very, first of all, suave.
- [04:33]
B
Wow.
- [04:34]
A
Just wow. Because you had never said that to me before, that it wasn't about the car, that the car was just a thing. So I'm just like. I'm almost. It's almost bringing tears to my eyes, but I'm trying not to start crying. So early in our podcast right now, can you talk about what is that trauma? And I know it's, like, huge, but right at this moment, how would you define that?
- [05:01]
B
I mean, for me, it's like this, Maria. Like, I worked out myself when I was in prison, like, really worked out myself hard to try to be a better person. Not to be a different person, a better person. I'm still suave from 149th Street, Prospect Avenue. I'm still capable of whatever. I just suppressed that person. I never really dealt with that person. I suppressed them. I'm suave. I'm this. I'm doing this. So I Walk around with trauma of being taken advantage. I walk around with trauma of abuse. I walk around with trauma of abandonment. I walk around with the trauma of not trusting people. And at the same time, I'm a paranoid type person.
- [05:55]
A
But you weren't always like, again, when you say that, like when you were 17, you were not paranoid. That paranoia.
- [06:01]
B
No prison make me that way. That's what this is, a prison thing, right? That I haven't been able to shake off. And it's messed up because it kills relationships, it kills friendships, it kills a whole lot of things when you're looking at people in a certain way. Like, I don't really trust this person. That's the trauma. That's the trauma that, that I'm talking about that, you know, you walk around with it and if you don't deal with it or try to get some therapy with it, it's gonna manifest something else. What happened with the car situation was that I was already going through a lot of stuff that a lot of people don't know about. Not even you, relationship wise, right?
- [06:45]
A
Intimate. Intimate stuff.
- [06:46]
B
I had left the house. Beautiful woman, wonderful woman. But in my mind it was like, I don't trust you either because of my situation when I went back to prison. So I'm out. I'm out.
- [07:01]
A
And this is somebody who has loved you, and you're like, bye, I'm out.
- [07:05]
B
I left the house for months. No phone call. I'm good for ghosting people and been a victim. So all this happened when that was happening. So I was like, oh man, this is too much. It's too much. I'm feeling like I want to hurt somebody. And that's because I think it was Juliet that said that's I was self sabotaging everything I worked for. Because I felt at the time, not no more people. At the time, I felt like, man, I ain't had this much problem when I was in prison. I ain't had this much problem at all, at all. And now I'm out here, people know that I'm on lifetime parole. They're taking advantage of me because they know I'm on lifetime parole. And if I act in a certain way, all they got to do is call parole. I'm back in jail. So I'mma give you a reason. And once I start telling myself that I'm going give you a reason, that's when it becomes dangerous.
- [08:02]
A
So in this moment of your, I mean, oh, yo, me suave. It was terrifying. La verdad.
- [08:08]
B
It was scary.
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A
It was scary.
- [08:10]
B
I Look back today. It was scary.
- [08:11]
A
Oh my God, it was so scary. You were not. It was not the same suave. It was another person on the phone. And we had an intervention. We did. We were like. I remember saying, we need to get him on the phone now. All of us. And Brody Martin is young. She's worried about you. And she has her own had experiences with mental health. And that's why she said, in terms of your mental health, o. That was a trigger for you. And you said, goodbye, I'm out.
- [08:42]
B
Yeah, because I felt she, at that moment, at that moment, she sounded like the fucking doctor that said I was mentally retarded. Yeah, right. I don't even. I don't even think she understand. Right. And I always say there's a lot of people out here don't understand when we use these words. Right. For a lot of people, they. Textbooks words, sounds good for conversations and talking points. But when you're talking to somebody that's been labeled mentally all his fucking life, right. They went to jail because of it. Right. They was told you, you. Is you never going to learn how to read and write. When you talk to somebody like that and you start talking about mental health, it feels like you attacking them. It feels like you using them, labels against them. And that's how I felt at the time. That's how I really felt.
- [09:29]
A
I totally, I totally get it.
- [09:32]
B
But when I listen back today, I feel so bad because I was like, oh, man. I don't want people to think that I'm being disrespectful to people, but this is just the mental health. This is how it is people. For people to come home from prison. And I know that a lot of people will be hearing this and probably like, really? Yes, this is how it is.
- [09:53]
A
The thing is though, even though I've known you now since 1993. Okay, so 30. What year is it? 32 years. 32 year old. Listen, even though I've known you for 32 years, there is no way that I can ever understand what you have been through, period. We've done podcasts, we've been on a roller coaster, we've done. I will never know. And I think truly, when you are able to take us into your brain, I'm so filled with gratitude. Because that is your capacity, Swabe. You do take us into your brain and we all learn a lot as a result.
- [10:48]
B
People need to understand that when you're dealing with somebody that's coming home from prison after serving decades, I think personally it would have been beneficial for me, if somebody would have said, you know what? Before you get a job, let me take you to some therapy. Before you go on your own and start recording podcasts and calling yourself Mr. Pulitzer, let me fucking take you to therapy. Because it's gonna come. Come to a point where all that is gonna cave in and you ain't gonna know how to deal with it. And that's the scary part. A lot of our families, a lot of our friends don't know how to deal with a person that's been incarcerated for decades coming home. Some of them can't even recognize the trauma. Like, oh, my God, I love you. Like, stop fucking telling me you love me, man. Like, because when people. I'm serious. Because when people in prison tell you they love you, that mean they. They want something out of you.
- [11:46]
A
Oh, my God.
- [11:46]
B
They want something. They looking for something, right?
- [11:49]
A
Right.
- [11:50]
B
When you start checking up on somebody, like, what you doing for you, it feels. Feel like a checkup. It feel like you trying to modern my move. Why is he following my move?
- [11:59]
A
Surveillance.
- [12:00]
B
Yeah. Why is you tracking what I'm doing, where I'm at, what I'm doing? You know, today, I know that that's not the point, but there was a time when I'm like, man, I can't deal with this coming out of one prison. I want to know how. What I do, what I eat, when I'm doing it, who I'm talking to. That sounds like fucking guard. And. But that's. That goes to the heart. Our families don't know how to deal or can't even identify the trauma that most of us come to because they assume because you got a job. They assume because you're doing certain things that you doing great. You are different. It's the same thing when we went to court and the judge said, you are the reception. Remember? She said that you are. You are the example. So when somebody comes and I'm like, oh, oh, I'm not the example. I'm not your poster child. Right? Because if a lot of people don't know, I still walk around with trauma. I just know how to deal with it a little better today.
- [12:54]
A
So why. Why did you decide that you wanted to send that text to me after listening to episode five? Why?
- [12:59]
B
Because I don't think that as I sit back to death, nobody deserved to be dragged into this drama. Nobody. Nobody. I don't care how close you are. I don't care if it's friends, wise girlfriend, mother's father, nobody deserved it. You. You didn't Sign up, right? To say, you know what? I'mma try to prevent you from going to prison when you say, you willing to die, like, nobody deserve that. Because that only plays into conflict with your family, because now you can't concentrate on your son, you can't concentrate on your daughter, you can't concentrate on your husb. Man, unbeno the dog. I mean, these are things that people don't think about because you're too focused. What's going to happen to Suave? Nobody deserved that. I wouldn't want to go through that. And I just felt like, damn, I got to apologize. I don't know. So I just send you and Julieta a text like, yo, appreciate you, but, you know, sorry. I feel almost embarrassed, like, dang, I put them through all that. Oh, my God. Like, damn. You know, and. But that's the trauma, you know? I'm sorry. That's the trauma that's. I think that needed to happen for me to be in the space that I am today. No doubt.
- [14:16]
A
No doubt.
- [14:17]
B
Because if it wasn't for y', all, I probably would have done some dumb. I was acting like I was still in the streets when I'm not in the streets. That's how I was acting.
- [14:29]
A
It was like you were 17.
- [14:31]
B
Yep.
- [14:31]
A
And taken from.
- [14:32]
B
You took my dirt bike, and I'mma go get it back.
- [14:35]
A
Wow.
- [14:36]
B
By any means necessary, right? And by no way, people. That's a way to act.
- [14:43]
A
So one of the things that I love about our podcast, Suave, and I know this because of you, is that you hear from people behind bars still, and they tell you or people who were and who have come out and because of you as an activist, they know about you and they tell you, thank you. They say, thank you for putting the issues, the stories. Thank you. So for those people, what do you say to them when you think about what happened to you and how to avoid destroying it all based on the paranoia and all of that trauma that.
- [15:19]
B
You talk about, Deal with the trauma while you in there before you come home.
- [15:23]
A
And how are they supposed to do that? Because there's no mental health in a prison.
- [15:26]
B
They know. But there's this ways, man. There's ways that we need to come out that bubble that we in. In the prison system, because we lock ourselves into this bubble, and all we do is create that dark hole that I was telling you about before. Everybody hates me because somebody don't write you a letter or they don't take your phone call. They don't want to hear about me like I'm not going to call no more. Well, guess what? If you don't call me right, there's no way I could call you. So you're not hurting me. You really hurting yourself. Okay, you don't want to call me? Cool. She don't want to call. That's cool. You know, that's not. That's not a good way. We need to do better with dealing with our trauma while we in prison. Don't come home with that resentment.
- [16:17]
A
Before there was ever a thought that you were going to get out, I remember calling you, like, Suave, the prison Buddhist, because you were just so fucking Zen, you know, and happy all the time and doing all this. Okay, well, what would you say to someone who's like, wait, you want me to do therapy in the prison?
- [16:34]
B
Yeah, I was doing all this work, Maria. I was creating scholarship works. I was doing all this work in the prison system, but I never worked on myself. I never worked with my feelings. I never dealt with the death of my grandfather. I never dealt with the death of my mother behind bars. I never dealt with all the tragic stuff that happened while I was behind bars. I never really dealt with watching people get stabbed and sexually assaulted in the prison system, and you can't do shit about it. I never dealt. It was, like, normal. It's like, okay, it happened. It's cool. That's prison life, you know? Guess what? That's not life. You know, that's very traumatic when you lay down and you be like, man, that guy that got stabbed was a pretty good dude. He got stabbed for 13 cents, odors and noodles for. Because he couldn't pay it back. Somebody decided that you disrespected me, so now I gotta act with deadly force. Like, that's not normal. I never dealt with that. You know? So I come out here with that mentality. Even though it's suppressed, it's still there because that's what's keeping me alive. That's my survival. Like, I'm not gonna let nobody fuck with me. I'm not gonna let nobody take nothing from me. And we cool. As long as that don't happen, I'm functioning. The minute that happened, I'm reverting back to what I know. The only thing I know, which is, oh, hell no, you're not gonna play me, you know? And that's the dangerous part. Why? Because I never dealt properly with the trauma that I experienced for 31 years.
- [18:12]
A
Okay? So we know that the carceral state in the United States, especially now, they could give A shit about people behind bars, which means that you actually don't get mental health. So are you saying that maybe. I don't know. I'm putting words into your mouth that maybe there should be, like, a movement of volunteer clinical social workers and therapists to go in and do free therapy?
- [18:33]
B
Yes.
- [18:33]
A
How would they.
- [18:34]
B
Or at least before that person come out, at least six, seven months before that person come out.
- [18:37]
A
That's a good idea. How do you. It would have to be independently done because the prison system is not going to care.
- [18:43]
B
Yeah, but on a volunteer base or independent. It should be done. It would have been helpful for me and hundreds of people that I know. They came home and can't function. I never got the proper treatment, but I had a good support team Futuristas. Y' all part of that Futura team. Seriously. Y' all part of that and don't even know it. Like I told you in the text, if it wasn't for y', all, you know, coming to Philadelphia, then we're gonna lock ourselves in my prison cell, which is my studio, all day. Something could have happened, you know, something could have happened. Something could have happened. But yet here we are in the studio, and I'm like, I hope. Because y' all came for two days, and I was like, I hope they don't come back tomorrow. So they ruined my plan.
- [19:35]
A
People, like, got you, and so we saved you.
- [19:39]
B
And that's real thing. That's like. That was like six, seven hours of therapy. Yeah. That I ain't had to pay for. It was free therapy. Well, who did that? Money. But nevertheless, it was therapeutic. It was moments in that conversation, you know, up to that point, I only saw Julieta as a producer. As a producer, there was a moment when she said, I don't want to see you go back to prison. Her voice at that moment didn't sound like her. It sounded like yours. It sounded like my mother. And I was like, damn, she care that much? Sorry, sis. Seriously, when you go through that, unless, you know, people do care. People do care. And it's more than a Christmas car. It's not a Christmas car. This is not a birthday car. This is real life events that people saying, we're coming to feel it. We're going to be there, and you can't get rid of us. And that's what happened. And that was the moment I was like, man, fuck that card. I'm out. I'm going to let that shit go. Call my therapist. I'm like, yo, can I come see you? And that was. She was like, oh, but you came before and dropped down and said, yeah, but I need it. That's what I mean, that a lot of people don't have that. I'm lucky to have that. And that's when I realized, like, then I fucked up. I fucked up. That was Suave from B block doing that. That wasn't really me. But at the same time, you know, the trauma is real. I live with it every day. I try to work around it every day. I'm easily triggered. It don't take much because anything that happened in my life remind me of prison. Everything and how I dealt and how I got it fixed when I was in prison.
- [21:34]
A
That's why when I was listening to season two and you said something like, well, you know, it was so much easier in prison, right? I didn't have to worry about paying rent. I didn't have to worry. And I was like, oh, my God. And the reason why Suave is because you went in as a juvenile. So your mother was the one who was paying rent. You actually didn't pay rent. You didn't have the experience of actually having to get a job. A lot of people go into prison. They've had an adult life. You went in as a kid.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah, you.
- [22:00]
A
Anyway, Suave, I just. This is like, as usual, I want to say thank you to your mother, Sarong, because she made you.
- [22:08]
B
I mean, I just hope that people understand that I'm human. I go through my stages. I'm still dealing with it. Seven years may seem like a long time, but it's really not. I'm still getting used to being free. This is not just about me. This is about millions and millions of people that's going through the same thing about the people that's invested their time in listening to learn from us, you know? So I'm not gonna leave you at them, you know, yes, I'm gonna go through my stages. Yes, I'm gonna keep fighting with Maria sometimes because I still got that rebellion in me. Letting go is hard because letting go would mean that I'm being stripped of everything I learned to survive. But I'm not. I refuse today to walk around with that trauma. I can't keep going around with that. That toolbox that I created for myself in prison that say, use this to survive. Because if you use this, they're not going to bother you. If you're always mad, they're not going to say nothing to you. If you keep them at bay, they're going to respect you more. That's that's not it. That's not it. I refuse to do that. That's my goal, to make sure that I don't judge people. They are not responsible for my trauma. You might be losing out on friendship. You might be losing out on brotherhood. You might be losing out on love. You might be losing out on relationships when you do that, because it is a turn off. I don't want nobody to judge me for being formally incarcerated. Why should I judge somebody by how they look?
- [23:45]
A
All right. Okay, Preach. Well, there you have it. Our very first bonus episode. And God damn, you delivered Suaves. It's Maria Hinojosa and Suave signing off. Bye.
- [24:07]
B
Peace.
- [24:14]
A
Futura plus.