Podcast Summary: Sub Club by RevenueCat

Episode: How to Use Segmentation to Maximize LTV — Greg Stewart, Ladder

Date: March 9, 2025
Hosts: David Barnard, Jacob Eiting
Guest: Greg Stewart, CEO of Ladder

Episode Overview

This special episode focuses on leveraging segmentation to maximize Lifetime Value (LTV) in subscription apps. The discussion spotlights practical strategies for increasing user retention, the real metrics that matter day-to-day, and why conversion “hacks” and discounts have their limits. Greg Stewart shares Ladder’s journey as a leading fitness app, providing actionable insights for app creators seeking smarter growth and higher subscriber value.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Lifetime Value (LTV) as a Metric

• Greg Stewart rejects a heavy focus on LTV, viewing it as too “macro” and insufficient for guiding daily decisions.
  • “LTV for us is a little too wishy-washy and too macro to make decisions on… By the time you’ve got a good read on any one cohort, the entire picture could have changed.” – Greg Stewart (01:47)
• Payback Period is prioritized for managing app growth:
  • Payback provides a clearer, real-time understanding of investments and returns.

2. Retention and Workout Completions Over LTV

• Retention is Ladder’s central focus, especially as a fitness brand.
  • Key metric: Number of workouts completed (“workout completions”).
  • “High workouts equals high LTV…” – Greg Stewart (03:33)
• Product features are all designed to maximize incremental workout completions, which are closely linked to LTV as an output metric (not an input metric).

3. Segmentation and Persona-Driven Acquisition

• Ladder identifies and targets multiple Personas through marketing and onboarding.
  • Uses a quiz at sign-up to collect data: workout frequency, modalities, equipment, goals (04:40).
  • Example Personas: “Pilates influenced at-home” vs. “advanced gym goers”.
• Unique, persona-driven onboarding smooths the path for each segment.

4. Onboarding, Free Trial, and Early Activation

• No-credit-card 7-day free trial (05:50):
  • Reduces friction and increases genuine engagement.
• First week is pivotal: 3+ workouts in the first week strongly predict long-term retention (07:34).
• Product-led conversion:
  • “We use the product to convince – not getting them to pay and then hoping something happens after the fact.” – Greg Stewart (05:59)

5. Intelligent Paywall Segmentation & Offer Strategies

• No segmentation for “happy path” users (those actively engaging in trial – 09:19).
• Targeted offers for non-converting users:
  • Users with more workouts get annual plan offers, added features, and discounts.
  • Users with zero workouts are only shown monthly subscription offers, not annual (12:29).
  • “For zero workouts, we point to monthly. For those that have gotten through key activation moments… we’ll introduce and lean into annual.” – Greg Stewart (12:32)

6. Annual vs. Monthly Plans: Shifting Strategy

• Deliberately moving more users to annual plans to tighten payback periods and maximize realized LTV (11:09).
• Early experimentation included pricing tests, incentives, and added features for annual subscriptions.

7. Role of Discounts and Promotional Offers

• Relatively little iteration on deals: “90% product, 10% deals.” (13:40)
  • The focus is on experience and activation over discounting.
• Special moments for deals: E.g., program cycles such as “strength series” create urgency.
• Low-cost trial offers (e.g., $5 for the first month) can boost short-term conversions but result in only half those users retaining into month two (15:23).

8. Unique Product Features (The Cheer Function)

• “Cheer” feature: Social engagement (users can send each other “cheers”) directly correlates to workout completions and higher retention (13:57).
  • “Number of cheers received [is] correlated to workout completions and long term retention.” – Greg Stewart (14:08)
• Outbound cheers are intentionally incentivized, especially for new users in trial.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Practical Metrics:
  “We manage the day-to-day business on payback period, which is a far cleaner, very tangible metric that we can talk to the entire team about.”
  — Greg Stewart (01:55)

• On User Segmentation:
  “Step one is getting to the right people and really making sure you understand the pain points and how our solution addresses those pain points at the Persona level…”
  — Greg Stewart (05:05)

• On Activation Over Discounts:
  “If you stacked up all the time on iteration between activation in the product… versus iteration on deals, it would probably be 90% product, 10% deals.”
  — Greg Stewart (13:40)

• On the Impact of Social Features:
  “We correlated the number of cheers received to workout completions and long term retention.”
  — Greg Stewart (14:08)

• On Trial to Paid Conversion:
  “If you get through that first workout, the odds of us seeing you as a number are very high.”
  — Greg Stewart (16:58)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:47] – Rethinking LTV in Day-to-Day Decisions
• [03:33] – The Power of Workout Completions as a Metric
• [04:40] – Persona Segmentation and Marketing
• [05:50] – 7-Day Free Trial and Early Activation
• [07:34] – Predicting Retention from Week One Metrics
• [09:19] – Differentiated Offers Based on Behavior
• [11:09] – Shifting from Monthly to Annual Subscriptions
• [12:29] – Segmentation in Offers (Zero Workouts vs. Activated Users)
• [13:40] – Emphasis on Product over Discounting
• [13:57] – Social Features Driving Retention (Cheers)
• [15:23] – Discount Deal Retention Statistics

Final Takeaways

• Retention and product engagement are the levers that drive sustainable LTV—not aggressive discounting.
• Personalization and segmentation at both the onboarding and paywall stage matter: Real user context shapes the right offer.
• Early user behaviors strongly predict long-term outcomes: Maximize activation and motivation in the first week.
• Annual plans, if properly positioned, help drive both higher LTV and faster payback, but only for appropriately engaged cohorts.

Want to see Ladder’s approach first-hand? Greg encourages listeners to try the app’s no-credit-card trial and experience their onboarding first-hand.