Podcast Summary: Making Web2App Work: From Basic Landing Pages to Complex Sales Funnels — Nathan Hudson, Perceptics
Podcast Information:
- Title: Sub Club by RevenueCat
- Host/Authors: David Barnard, Jacob Eiding
- Guest: Nathan Hudson, Founder of Perceptics
- Release Date: January 8, 2025
Introduction to Web2App
In this insightful episode of Sub Club by RevenueCat, hosts David Barnard and Jacob Eiding welcome Nathan Hudson, a two-time former Head of Growth and this year's App Marketer of the Year, founder of Perceptics—a full-service growth agency specializing in mobile app growth. The conversation centers around the emerging strategy of Web2App, exploring its definition, strategic advantages, practical implementations, and the nuances that app developers must consider when integrating web-based funnels into their app growth strategies.
Defining Web2App [02:22]
The discussion begins with clarifying what Web2App entails. Nathan Hudson emphasizes that Web2App is not merely about creating basic web touchpoints like quizzes or landing pages but encompasses the entire process of converting web traffic into app users. He states:
“Simply put, it's the process of converting traffic on the web or starting to convert traffic on the web before directing them to your app.” — [03:45] Nathan Hudson
This broader definition helps distinguish Web2App from narrower interpretations that focus solely on onboarding quizzes or similar tools.
Strategic Benefits of Web2App
1. Cash Flow and Fees [07:35]
For smaller apps struggling with cash flow, Web2App presents a significant advantage by allowing quicker revenue realization. Nathan explains that accepting payments on the web can mitigate the delayed payout structures typical of app stores:
“The biggest advantage of testing on the web. When you're first launching a paid channel, you can just build that feedback loop and it's kind of what you want to do with the performance channel anyway.” — [08:50] Jacob Eiding
Jacob adds that platforms like Stripe offer almost same-day payouts, which is a substantial benefit for cash-strapped app developers.
2. Attribution [11:51]
Effective attribution is another critical benefit. Nathan discusses how Web2App can enhance the ability to track user origins more accurately, especially with evolving privacy measures:
“Using web allows you to pretty much spend, as Jacob said, 1k and learn something and that can be fine.” — [13:06] Nathan Hudson
With tools like UTM parameters, developers can better understand and optimize their marketing channels without relying heavily on third-party attribution partners.
3. Control Over the Funnel [07:35]
Web2App grants developers greater control over the user journey compared to app store limitations. Jacob points out the restrictions imposed by app stores on customization and funnel optimization:
“The app stores have Apple search ads, you can do click to install ads, I guess. But like your ability to control the acquisition funnel is pretty limited.” — [06:07] Jacob Eiding
By leveraging the web, developers can craft personalized and dynamic funnels that better cater to user needs and behaviors.
Impact of Platform Changes on Attribution [14:07]
The conversation shifts to the impact of Apple's privacy changes, particularly the deprecation of cookies in Safari and App Tracking Transparency (ATT). Nathan notes that while these changes pose challenges, Web2App can still maintain effective attribution through UTM tracking:
“As long as we have UTM tracking, we can see what we need to see.” — [14:35] Nathan Hudson
Jacob concurs, highlighting that UTM parameters provide a non-intrusive way to track user sources, thereby preserving some level of attribution accuracy despite privacy restrictions.
Web2App for Different App Sizes
A. Smaller Apps [07:35 - 14:35]
Nathan outlines that smaller apps benefit most from Web2App in terms of cash flow, reduced fees, and improved attribution. For these apps, every dollar saved and every insight gained is crucial for scaling. Jacob adds that the ability to iterate quickly with smaller budgets is invaluable:
“With Stripe or whatever, I think they do almost same day payouts. So you can get that.” — [09:34] Jacob Eiding
B. Larger Apps [20:53]
For larger, established apps, the benefits of Web2App shift towards reaching new audiences and expanding market presence. Nathan explains that once an app scales, leveraging web-based funnels becomes essential for tapping into diverse user segments and optimizing long-term growth strategies.
“Expansion to do with intent... you can have a lot more lead magnets.” — [29:29] Nathan Hudson
Practical Implementations and Examples
1. Quizzes [63:05]
While quizzes are popular, Nathan advises focusing on how they answer user questions rather than just asking them:
“A good web onboarding journey tells a story. A great web onboarding journey echoes their story back to them.” — [65:19] Nathan Hudson
He recommends integrating interludes that provide evidence, testimonials, and functionality explanations to reassure and inform users throughout the quiz process.
2. Webinars [33:02]
Nathan shares a case study where Perceptics built a webinar funnel for a high-ticket subscription app. By directing users to a webinar before the purchase, they effectively nurtured leads who were not immediately ready to commit:
“We could take portions of that video, run them as YouTube ads, and direct people to watch the full-length webinar.” — [34:16] Nathan Hudson
This approach helped bridge the gap between initial interest and eventual subscription.
3. Landing Pages [04:35]
Basic landing pages with clear calls-to-action (CTAs) remain fundamental. They serve as entry points from various channels like TikTok, YouTube, and blog posts, guiding users toward app downloads or subscriptions.
“The basic setup is just we have a landing page and a sales page on the web and we're trying to sell like an Ecom brand would.” — [05:28] Nathan Hudson
Challenges and Considerations
1. Fraud, Payments, Refunds [46:03 - 49:31]
Transitioning to a web-based payment system introduces complexities like handling fraudulent transactions, managing refunds, and ensuring compliance with payment regulations. Nathan emphasizes the importance of using reliable payment processors like Stripe or Paddle to mitigate these risks:
“Paddle is really solid for a lot of things. They have a lot of great tools for sales tax compliance.” — [49:28] Nathan Hudson
Jacob notes that while app stores manage these aspects internally, Web2App requires developers to establish robust payment and fraud prevention systems.
2. User Intent and Lifetime Value (LTV) [45:07]
Nathan discusses the variability in customer LTV when using Web2App, pointing out that ethical practices significantly influence user retention and satisfaction. Conversely, dark patterns can harm LTV by misleading users, leading to higher churn rates.
“Typically LTV is higher on web, aside from these things.” — [46:03] Nathan Hudson
3. Tools and Infrastructure [49:12]
Effective Web2App implementation relies on leveraging the right tools for payment processing, funnel building, and analytics. Nathan recommends starting with established platforms like Stripe and gradually integrating more sophisticated tools as needed.
Best Practices
1. Creating Winning Web2App Funnels [62:41]
Nathan shares practical tactics for building effective Web2App funnels, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, social proof, and personalization. He advises developers to focus on answering user questions and providing value throughout the funnel:
“A good web onboarding journey tells a story. A great web onboarding journey echoes their story back to them.” — [63:05] Nathan Hudson
2. Social Proof [65:26]
Incorporating social proof effectively involves addressing user objections through testimonials, user counts, and case studies tailored to the app's target audience. Nathan suggests focusing on qualitative social proof that resonates with specific user segments rather than generic numbers:
“Join others who have XYZ like you and then having a testimonial of someone just like you who solved that problem.” — [65:26] Nathan Hudson
3. Personalization [66:43]
Personalization enhances the user experience by tailoring the funnel journey based on user inputs and behaviors. However, Nathan warns against over-personalization, recommending a balanced approach that enriches the user experience without becoming overly complex:
“Focus personalization on context as opposed to just focusing personalization on questions, answers.” — [67:05] Nathan Hudson
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
As the episode wraps up, David Barnard reflects on the expansive opportunities that Web2App offers to app developers:
“Web marketing is like 15 years ahead of app marketing in tooling in so many different ways. It just opens up so many possibilities to shape that entire funnel.” — [38:14] David Barnard
Nathan Hudson concurs, emphasizing that while Web2App introduces additional complexity, the strategic advantages it offers in terms of control, cash flow, and audience expansion make it a compelling approach for app growth.
“There aren't that many verticals that shouldn't try web to app. You should try it as long as you have the hypothesis around what you expect to happen.” — [58:43] Nathan Hudson
Both hosts encourage listeners to thoughtfully assess their app's stage, market position, and specific needs before diving into Web2App strategies. They also highlight the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in leveraging web-based funnels to complement app store presence effectively.
Key Takeaways:
- Web2App is a comprehensive strategy to convert web traffic into app users, extending beyond simple onboarding tools.
- Benefits include improved cash flow, reduced fees, better attribution, and greater control over user funnels, especially advantageous for smaller apps.
- Platform changes like Apple's privacy measures impact attribution, but Web2App can mitigate some challenges through tools like UTM tracking.
- Implementation involves leveraging quizzes, webinars, and landing pages tailored to the app's specific needs and audience.
- Challenges include handling payments, fraud, refunds, and maintaining ethical practices to ensure high LTV.
- Best practices emphasize storytelling, relevant social proof, and balanced personalization to enhance user engagement and conversion.
- Developers should assess their app's stage and strategic goals before adopting Web2App, ensuring it aligns with their growth objectives.
For those interested in exploring Web2App further, Nathan Hudson invites listeners to connect via LinkedIn and visit Perceptics’ platforms for more insights and potential collaboration opportunities.
Notable Quotes:
- “Simply put, it's the process of converting traffic on the web or starting to convert traffic on the web before directing them to your app.” — [03:45] Nathan Hudson
- “The biggest advantage of testing on the web. When you're first launching a paid channel, you can just build that feedback loop and it's kind of what you want to do with the performance channel anyway.” — [08:50] Jacob Eiding
- “A good web onboarding journey tells a story. A great web onboarding journey echoes their story back to them.” — [63:05] Nathan Hudson
- “There aren't that many verticals that shouldn't try web to app. You should try it as long as you have the hypothesis around what you expect to happen.” — [58:43] Nathan Hudson
Resources Mentioned: