Sub Club by RevenueCat

Episode: What Subscription Apps Can Learn About Monetization From Gaming
Guest: Mathias Gredal Nørvig (CEO, SYBO, creators of Subway Surfers)
Hosts: David Barnard, Jacob Eiting
Date: October 1, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into the business, marketing, and monetization longevity of Subway Surfers with Mathias Gredal Nørvig, CEO of SYBO. The discussion explores what subscription app developers can learn from gaming, especially around organic growth, protecting user experience, and advanced monetization models like rewarded ads and season passes. The hosts probe how Subway Surfers maintains relevance after billions of downloads, and Mathias offers insights on brand safety, UGC, and collaboration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Secret to Subway Surfers' Longevity

[01:42–05:12]

• Timing and Innovation: The game emerged just as the endless runner genre (Temple Run) began but refined the formula (three-lane mechanics, swipe gameplay), setting an industry standard.
• Evergreen Strategy: Aiming for longevity, founders designed Subway Surfers to remain compelling, never gating core gameplay or pressuring users to pay.
• “World Tour” Updates: Introducing a new city every three weeks keeps content fresh and internationally relevant.
• Broad Appeal: Initially for adults, the intuitive gameplay now attracts a wide age range—“everyone that started playing since also plays Subway Surfer.”

  "We will never pinch you, we will never guard you from content. Anything is achievable through playing." — Mathias [04:30]

2. Embracing & Amplifying Virality

[05:12–11:33]

• UGC-First Strategy: Users are encouraged to use the Subway Surfers IP in their videos; standout content is amplified by the official team.
• In-House Creative Team: Content (including ad creatives) is developed in-house by a nimble, risk-taking team.

  "It's basically a content flywheel, like a furnace just spitting out things." — Mathias [07:17]

• Trending and Cultural Moments: The team “rides the waves” of pop culture—from referencing viral TV shows to playful rivalries with brands like Duolingo.
• Minimal Paid Spend: Marketing dollars are primarily spent on salaries. Paid boosts are rare and small—tens of thousands (not millions).

  “We spend nothing, we spend salaries. So it’s all organic.” — Mathias [09:48]

3. Brand Safety & Balancing Risks in Virality

[11:07–12:52]

• Guardrails Without Heavy-Handed Approval: Leadership and heads of PX and Brand safeguard the brand’s tone, but most ideas get through. The priority is to avoid trends that might cheapen the brand.
• Experimentation Over Consensus: The team is encouraged to take risks, with post-mortems if something falls flat rather than pre-emptive rejection.

4. The Virtue of Evergreen Business Models

[13:24–14:37]

• Low User Acquisition Spend: Staying in top downloaded games with little or no paid UA, while many competitors buy their spots and churn out.
• Strategic Patience: Many high-spending or viral competitors have brief flashes of popularity, but Subway Surfers remains a staple.
• Organic Endorsements: Subway Surfers gets organic mentions in mass media without paid placements (e.g., Jimmy Fallon, John Oliver, the Mario movie).

5. Marketing Team Structure & Scaling Creativity

[15:42–16:56]

• Small but Mighty: The core content production team is under 10 people, proving that lean, creative teams can outperform scale.

  “The core part, producing content is less than 10 people. So they are super nimble and very efficient at producing.” — Mathias [15:46]

6. Monetization: Lessons for Subscription Apps

[17:08–23:21]

• Ad-Driven Revenue Model: 80–85% of revenue derives from ads; both interstitials and rewarded videos.
• Fairness Mindset: Careful balancing ensures that paying with time/attention is as valid as paying with money.

  "For me, what the ads allow us to do is to also be available and support markets that would not traditionally have subscription apps or use in-app purchases." — Mathias [21:48]

• Hybrid Monetization Complexity: It’s challenging but vital to blend attention-based rewards, currencies, and IAPs without alienating any user segment.
• Protecting Player Experience: Some players can technically play endlessly without seeing ads, while weaker players see more. The team constantly rebalances to ensure fairness.

7. Best Practices in Ad Safety & Brand Protection

[25:55–29:10]

• COPPA & GDPR Compliance: Ad networks are filtered for age-appropriate ads, and adult users are shielded from harmful categories (gambling, guns, etc.).
• Active Monitoring: A pipeline tracks ad impressions and user complaints; problematic ads are quickly blacklisted and reported.

  "We have heard from a player that this ad was shown. That's not how we want to make our money." — Mathias [27:45]

8. Cannibalization Concerns & Competitive Confidence

[30:07–32:33]

• Cannibalization Is Part of F2P: While cross-promotion and competing games risk losing users, Subway Surfers’ confidence in product quality and brand gravity means lapsed users often return.

  "Our confidence in our product and also the longevity that we've proven means that we are also confident that you will come back." — Mathias [30:48]

• Direct Clones & Monetized Competitors: Previous attempts at direct clones or more aggressively-monetized versions have failed, testament to the original game’s content and feel.

9. Collaboration & Cross-Promotions in Gaming (and What Apps Can Learn)

[32:55–39:10]

• Authentic IP Collaborations: Partnerships with Brawl Stars, Crossy Road, and 8 Ball Pool start about a year in advance and are founded on brand parity and mutual benefit—often just exchanging traffic without revenue shares.
• Learnings for Apps: Similar collaborations in subscription apps (e.g., Strava acquiring RUNA, but keeping both brands alive and cross-promoting) can boost both brands' stickiness and visibility.

  "It's just exciting to see the creative teams hitting it off together and then seeing that what comes out excites people." — Mathias [38:43]

• Elasticity of Demand in Gaming: Multiple games can coexist in a user's day, unlike utility apps, so cross-promotions make more sense.

10. Advanced Monetization: Season Passes & Subscriptions

[41:59–46:55]

• Season Passes as a Transparent Value Exchange: Unlike subscriptions, season passes provide clear duration and reward structure—users know what they’re getting and can engage for a finite period.

  "What felt really fair about it...is that I also know that I don't forget about it and then I'm charged forever." — Mathias [44:26]

• Lessons for Apps: As apps get more sophisticated, the industry will likely see more hybrid monetization (one-off purchases, day/week passes, seasonal unlocks) rather than exclusively subscriptions.
• Balancing Monetization and User Experience: Users appreciate clarity, fairness, and choice in what and how they pay.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Evergreen Philosophy:

  “We will never pinch you, we will never guard you from content. Anything is achievable through playing.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [04:30]

• On Virality & Risk-Taking:

  “If something's bad, it often just doesn't go anywhere. Nobody sees it anyway.”
  — Jacob Eiting [06:09]

• Organic vs. Paid Marketing:

  “We spend nothing, we spend salaries. So it’s all organic.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [09:48]

• Scale of Content Team:

  “The core part, producing content is less than 10 people. Wow. So they are super nimble and very efficient.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [15:46]

• Monetization Fairness:

  "It's a constant sort of balancing act... how do we entertain as many players as possible... but also allow those who want to spend time or money to do so, without ruining the fun for the majority?"
  — Mathias Nørvig [19:28]

• Rewarded Ads Lesson:

  “...the ads allow us to support markets that would not traditionally have subscription apps or use in-app purchases.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [21:48–22:02]

• Protecting the Brand (Ad Safety):

  "We have heard from a player that this ad was shown. That's not how we want to make our money."
  — Mathias Nørvig [27:45]

• IP Partnerships—A Win-Win:

  “...we're exchanging traffic... what you monetize and what we monetize is different, but it boosts both of our numbers.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [36:27]

• On Season Passes:

  “I also know that I don't forget about it and then I'm charged forever... the season pass gives you a very clear overview of these are the things you can get in this period of time if you spend this amount of money.”
  — Mathias Nørvig [44:26]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Longevity of Subway Surfers: [01:42–05:12]
• UGC & Content Flywheel Approach: [05:12–11:33]
• In-House Creative and Brand Safety: [07:11–12:52]
• Evergreen vs. Paid UA Games: [13:24–14:47]
• Small Marketing Team, Big Impact: [15:42–16:56]
• Monetization Evolution & Layering: [17:08–24:35]
• Ad Safety, Filtering, and COPPA: [25:55–29:10]
• Handling Cannibalization & Competition: [30:07–32:33]
• Cross-Brand Collaborations: [32:55–39:10]
• Hybrid Monetization, Season Pass, Subscriptions: [41:59–46:55]

Closing Thoughts

Mathias’ perspective offers subscription app developers a roadmap to more resilient, user-friendly monetization—prioritizing organic reach, brand trustworthiness, and creative risk-taking. Games have pioneered sophisticated, user-centric revenue models (rewarded ads, season passes, multi-track monetization) that apps are only beginning to embrace. The episode is a treasure trove for anyone aiming to build a lasting, beloved app business—reminding founders to balance user value, fairness, and creativity every step of the way.