← Success Story with Scott D. Clary
Success Story with Scott D. Clary
Jason Wojo - Wojo Media CEO ($100M+ in Ad Revenue) | Why Your Business Isn't Growing and What to Do About It
01:33:53
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- [00:00]
A
HubSpot is a success story, partner. Now think about listening to this podcast. Right now you are probably multitasking. You are probably catching maybe 70 to 80% of what I'm saying. Now flip that and imagine catching only 20%. It's not a good use of your time. That'd be insane, right? But this is the reality for most businesses. Most businesses only use 20% of their data. That's like reading a book with 80% of the pages torn out. You are making decisions with a fraction of the picture. All the important details that get buried in the call logs and the emails and the transcripts and the chat messages and it's just floating around doing nothing for you. Unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform brings all that unstructured data together and turns it into insights that actually help you grow your business. Because when you know more, you grow more. And when you're running a business on a hundred percent of your data instead of 20, the decisions get a lot easier. Visit HubSpot.com to get the full picture.
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B
Today, people label themselves the CEO and they make $50,000 a month. You don't know what the you're talking about a real business. Small businesses between 3 and 7 million. Once you have at least 25 team members and you have a decent employee hierarchy, that's like a real business.
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A
Jason Wojo has built his entire career around one thing. Scaling businesses through paid ads. A serial entrepreneur and founder of Wojo Media, he's helped generate millions in revenue and worked with thousands of businesses looking to grow faster.
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B
Most coaching offers, people will sell 100 clients. Maybe 20% of them actually do anything you tell them to do. The other 80% are stuck because they're just not built to run a real business. When you don't have experience selling the thing that you're talking about, it's not good. Faith wise, you should feel bad about it.
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A
He didn't just follow the traditional path. He figured out how to win in the attention economy. Today he breaks down how to scale in a crowded world, capture attention and turn it into real revenue. What's the secret sauce to building an agency?
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B
Always have to have good offers. You can't just sell broad regular shit. You have to sell mechanisms. People care about that, then they care about the results. Second thing is people. When you hire cheap, you get shit. Most agencies, they hire cheap. They're always in the trenches. If your business has qa, it means the people suck. Solve problems fast instead of letting it linger. When we just let linger and sit, it just Hurts us more in the end.
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A
All right, Jason, I'm glad you're here. I want to kick this off with a quote from you. So you said that most people in the coaching consulting space are selling air. Why do you feel this way? And what makes a business real?
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B
So the coaching consulting space is ran by a bunch of entrepreneurs who are ranging between like 50,000amonth and 500,000amonth, who don't have big teams, who don't know how to grow business, who don't have HR departments, don't have finance, don't have legal. All these things that, you know, like, are proceeded to be a big conglomerate business. Like, if you don't have hiring funnels, you don't have leadership. You don't have, you know, CEOs. You're still the CEO. Like, it's not a business. People label themselves as like the CEO and they make $50,000 a month. I'm like, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, dude. A real business, anything that's doing, I would say, like small businesses are broadcasted between 3 and 7 million. I think that once you have at least 25 team members and you have a decent employee hierarchy, like, that's like a real business, you know, like, you're, you know, consuming enough payroll, you're giving people a path to want to make more money. You're retaining team members. Because most people can't retain team members for longer than 8 to 12 months. The churns are crazy in these coaching businesses. And a lot of these businesses are built just to make profit. Coaching is air because there's no fulfillment. It's, hey, dude, just do this and give me eight grand. Like, what the hell are we doing? No, we need tactical. We need to actually import into the business. Have someone actually hold you accountable to do it, not just tell you what to do. Because if you look at most coaching offers, people will sell 100 clients. Maybe 20% of them actually do anything you tell them to do. The other 80% are stuck because they're just not built to run a real business. They're there for the, you know, motivational rah rah, you know, RIP rap. So that's just my biggest thing. Like, I like talking to real business owners who have done stuff. Like, you've been in the tech space. Like, you know what it takes to run like a real business. People are selling this air stuff and they're like, I run a real business. If you can't sell it, it's not a real business. You can't sell air unless your face is nowhere on it. Like, there's so many things that are just. It's something I can rant about all day. But like, you get where I'm getting at it.
- [04:45]
A
Well, I get it. So I'll tell, I'll tell you why I get it. Because in the, the podcast space and in like the business thought leader space, it'd be very easy for me to do like a culture like coaching consulting, office.
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B
So easy.
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A
But I pushed back against that for so long and I still push back against it. So now you don't even know this about me. So my background's in tech now. I actually have an, like an actual agency, like a content marketing agency. 30 people. Like, it's a business. But it's not that education is bad. It's that there's so many unqualified people that are charging way too much for what they know.
- [05:18]
B
And then there's the people who do the whole, I shut my business down because God told me and I'm doing this instead.
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A
Is that a thing?
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B
Yes, there's a lot of people who do this thing. It's like an angle, it's a marketing angle to repackage their offer. So for example. Right. And then there's two things I want to touch on. I don't sell coaching. The only thing that I'm putting out soon is a mastermind with in person events. In person. Not this zoom crap where I just go on a weekly call and that's it. I want like real human connection. Kind of like a podcast. Right? Because people that are in the trenches of running a business don't just want like virtual motivation. They need to be held accountable in person. Like, we might even start doing like, you know, monthly events, whether we call them boardroom events. We're like, hey, come in person. A new workbook every month. Like, what things have we improved on? What things we pushing in the business? Like, I want more tactical shit. I don't want me to just be like, hey, dude, you run ads? Yeah, just spend more money, get higher roasting and yeah, you'll be good. Like, that's not as shit I could find on YouTube, like for free. There's everything needs to be customized, everybody. And most of these coaching offers are group, so it's all generalizations. You might have a different problem. I got a different problem probably. And for the longest time, dude, I've just ran an agency for eight years. Like, we got 109 team members. We do close to 2 million a month. I Don't want to sell other agency owners how to do my stuff. And I'll tell you why. Because I don't want them knowing my secrets. And that's just me being honest. Like, I would never sell to agency owners how to build an agency. And I've gotten asked this question millions of times. Why don't you sell coaching? If you're so good, why don't you sell it? Because I don't want you to know what I know. Because what I know is too fucking expensive to sell on a coaching offer. Like, if I were to sit down with an agency owner and be like, hey, you're gonna learn all these things. It's at least half a million. No one's buying it.
- [07:02]
A
Well, no, you're selling them a business.
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B
Yeah. Like, it's so expensive to where it would even. No one's gonna buy it.
- [07:09]
A
So how did. What happened where we got all of these coaches? Like, I mean, I don't want to spend all day talking about coaching, but I think especially for people that are listening to this show, that are super entrepreneurial, young, they're trying to figure out how to build a business. Or even people that are even a little bit older that, like, worked in corporate, that are now trying to figure out how to, you know, they're not feeling comfortable with their jobs. I hear like, AI, you know, my job's going to be over in a year. How do I build a business? How do I future proof myself? The Internet is so messy and it is so loud and nobody knows who to pay attention to or who to listen to or who to hire or whatever. How did we get to this point? Was this. Like, I, I think I have zero issue with Russell Brunson, but I think click funnels led to a lot of people being able to sell shit that they're unqualified to sell.
- [07:58]
B
Yes. So there's two things. I love Russell, but the one funnel away fucked up the industry. The one funnel away thing was the worst marketing material ever. Because now everybody believed. Because Russell was like, basically, we can name him the behemoth of online marketing. And this is probably 10 plus years ago where all the direct response happened. When you go with that perception of one funnel away, people truly believe you. Especially when you're marketing B2C people. B2C slash, biz op. It's all the avatars, all the people who bought one funnel away. And then business owners caught on to what a funnel was because Russell was basically saying, hey, buy for my funnel. Here's a funnel. So I Was like, it made sense, right?
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A
And then people productize their knowledge.
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B
And also it's the barrier to entry. The barrier to entry is so low, dude. Like, you can use anthropic manuscript GPT Claude for less than 100 bucks a month, and now you think you run a business. And that's really what it is, dude. Like, you can use AI to make content. You can use AI avatars to make your videos for you. Like, there's so many things, like, we can go on a freaking binge, but, like, it's just the barrier to entry. If you're working in a corporate job, you make four grand a month. You can actually afford to buy from people who sell this biz op stuff. And now you're in the game. 97 for a challenge or 47 bucks for an ebook. Like, you can join. It's cheaper than dinner. So that's the problem.
- [09:22]
A
So if somebody is looking to start something, they're just like, they're entrepreneurial. They don't know where to go. Your recommendation is to not sell coaching, not sell consulting.
- [09:33]
B
Zero chance. And you know what? You get a lot of the mindset coaches in these, like health coaches, because it's regurgitated.
- [09:39]
A
That's a whole other different can of worms. You're not like, you could coach implementation, but you're saying that you can find that shit on YouTube. You should. What should you do then? If you're starting a business and you say you have a skill set, should you go right into selling implementation?
- [09:52]
B
You should go into sales first. You should not go right into being a business owner. Like. Like, dude, sales is just so lucrative. If you're looking to make more money than four, five, six grand a month at a job. You get into sales and you can make 10, 15, $20,000 a month. Yeah. There's no base pay. Because if you get paid pay, if you get base pay, you're not a good salesperson.
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A
There's no base pay for being an entrepreneur either.
- [10:15]
B
Yeah. So it's like with sales, you get to learn products. You have to learn how people interact, get to learn human anatomy and psychology and all those things. You could take those things, you learn from sales, and then you can go start a business when you actually have real knowledge that you know how to sell stuff. Like, it's. It's this thing of, I don't want to sell coaching when I have no experience. But. But sales, I have to learn the skill set first. Like, I can't. I mean, I could be a crappy salesperson on a Good offer and make money. But then I might move from salesperson to a CSM or salesperson to a leadership role, get equity in the upside of the business and actually play that role where I can make 30, 40, $50,000 a month. Right. Like that's, that's a whole different game. But I just think that sales is better for people who want to make money online. Like people that are listening, that want to build funnels and sell products. Like what you don't realize is that when you don't have experience selling the thing that you're talking about it, it, it's not good faith wise. Like you should feel bad about it. Like it's weird. And that was something where, you know, when I was first starting out I was like, dude, I'm not selling anything digital until I'm at least like at 100 grand a month. Because I don't have any business being at 20,000, 10,000, 5,000, selling shit on the Internet for, for cheap low ticket products. I got to build this agency first. I got to find good people, I got to have a good product. Like I have to have a good brand. I got to post organic. All these things that matter before you
- [11:36]
A
can teach somebody to do it. Yeah, I was like upwork is a success story partner. Now one of the biggest lessons I learned building businesses is that you don't have to do it all yourself. The fastest growing companies, they are not working harder, they're delegating smarter. And that's where upwork comes in. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development and data and analytics and marketing and business operations and more. We're talking over 125 categories of specialized talent. So wherever the skill gap is, you can fill it fast without weeks of recruiting or committing to a full time hire. You can browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the role before you ever spend a dollar. And with business plus you get access to the top 1% of talent on Upwork. And with AI powered shortlisting that matches you to the right person in under six hours. Contracts, payments, all handled in one place. It's free to sign up. Job posting is super easy. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to grow your business. That's up w o r k.com Upwork.com autopilot is a success story partner. Now in three years, picking your own stocks is going to look as Outdated as hailing your own cap. Here's why the smartest investors in the world don't sit around guessing. They have data systems, full time teams. The rest of us are checking our brokerage app between meetings and hoping for the best. This is why I love Autopilot. You copy proven investors and AI driven strategies automatically. It's built by the team behind the viral Pelosi stock trader. You connect your existing brokerage, Schwab, Robinhood, whatever. Pick a strategy and every trade they make you make. Your money never leaves your account. Autopilot just mirrors the moves. Over 1.3 billion already invested autopilot in the app store. Investing involves risk including loss of principal. Autopilot is a success story, partner. Now imagine every time inverse Kramer or another top investor bought a stock, you bought it too in your own brokerage account. Automatically that exists. It's called Autopilot. Built by the team behind the viral Pelosi stock tracker. You browse strategies run by proven investors and AI driven models. Pick one that fits you connect your existing brokerage, Schwab, Robinhood, whatever. And every trade they make you make. Your money never leaves your account. Autopilot just mirrors the moves. No guessing, no staring at charts, no checking the market between meetings. Over 1.3 billion already invested Autopilot in the app store. Investing involves risk including loss of principal.
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B
It's crazy.
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A
It's crazy to me because entrepreneurship didn't used to be as popular as it is now. It used to actually be like, oh, you, you can't even work for somebody you're gonna like. It was like looked down on, right? Even like 30 years. Entrepreneurship was not as sexy as it is now. And then like the pendulum is swung and now entrepreneurship is so sexy that people focus more on entrepreneurship and being an entrepreneur and the title of just owning something versus just how do I make more money. So you're saying being an entrepreneur, go into sales, Go into sales.
- [14:32]
B
Like, dude, I have sales guys that make 20 grand a month to $50,000 a month. They don't have to deal with the stresses of the fulfillment after the customer sold. They don't have to build any teams. They get to enjoy their lives and have kids and like you don't have to be an entrepreneur. Like, dude, it's, it's crazy to me. It's mostly a status thing for people.
- [14:49]
A
I think so too.
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B
That's all it is. It's like, hey, I'm an entrepreneur. So when I go dating or when I go out, you're going to respect me. Like no Bro, we don't care. Like we can see right through the. So it's like it doesn't even matter. It's going to sales. Like you can have a happy life. Like entrepreneurship is stressful. Your, your risk tolerance has to be so high. You got to be willing to take on all the pain. Like you age quicker. Like it's just, it's not worth it. As much as people think it is, it's not.
- [15:17]
A
Why did you get into it?
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B
I got into it because my parents were really poor and I just hated not being able to get stuff like, yeah, like new video games or new basketball shoes. We went to pay less and like we were broke. We lived in an 800 square foot home in New York. We didn't have any money. $80,000 a year household income. Barely saw my parents. That's just the way we lived. So I was like, dude, I can't get the new video games. Like my friends are getting them. You know, like, why can't I get the new Call of Duty when everybody else gets it? Why can't I get the new Kobe's? When they came out, like that started to upset me. When I was younger, I was like, why do all my friends have big houses and we live in a trailer? Like why are all these things against me? Like, is this just because they're did my dad's cheap? Is this because my mom doesn't make enough money that I started to learn like economics and financ. Oh, okay. My dad makes $5,000 a month. My mom makes 800 bucks bi weekly. This is starting to add up why we're broke. Like this is really starting to add up. And you know, that's just like, that was just self awareness for me. You know, we had, we had like basketball practice and all the kids would get picked up and they're like in these big GMCs and my mom's in a shitty Dodge Caravan from 1998. Like why am I getting picked up in this car? And all my friends have GMCs. Like what is going on? So I started to become self aware to that and then, you know, starting to pick colleges. My dad was like, yeah, you go to community college. And I was like, oh, okay, got it. Because go to private university. I'm in debt. The books are too expensive. You know, my parents try to help me where they could. They did a great job getting me through community schools like that. I was fine. I had to get a tennis scholarship to put me through my second school because I went to culinary school at first Then I went to business school, and the business school was very expensive, but I got a tennis scholarship that paid for it. So that was good. I was like, thank God financial aid helped too. And I was living at home, so there was no, like, room and board that I had to pay for. But yeah, like, and, and, and I learned a lot of financial literacy when I was younger too. Seeing my dad, the way he managed money, see how way he looked at debt to income. Like, I learned things just by observing.
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A
So it sounds like your parents, like, they were smart people. They. But they played by sort of the old playbook. And this is, this is what's tough, right? Because we're talking, we're kind of talking shit about entrepreneurship, but then you're also looking at the old playbook that our parents and grandparents subscribe to that didn't really isn't working out for a younger generation at all. It was candidly, not even working out super well for them at the time. And you probably had the foresight to think, hey, listen, if I just do what my parents did, like, my life is not going to be where I want it to be. So that creates this stress on like a very young generation of, okay, I can't just follow the same playbook at a steady job nine to five, that's not paying me. What actually keeps up with cost of living in 2026 and beyond. Entrepreneurship is a whole other can of worms. So people are just generally lost. Like, I think young people are generally lost and stressed out and have high anxiety.
- [18:09]
B
Indecision. Yes, it's the indecision that causes them to start doing quick for quick money.
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A
And this is what causes all the problems that you see with like, coaching, consulting, selling online NFT projects.
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B
The list goes on, bro.
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A
The list. And people jump on the latest thing because it looks like, you know, it looks like a way to escape what is, what is a escapism or escape? Yeah, like escape the matrix, whatever you want to call it, which I don't
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B
even know where that even came from. But, like, you know, I think that
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A
came from Andrew Tate.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Like, yo, he started a whole movement which made people rebellious.
- [18:41]
A
But why do you think, why do you think he became so popular? It's because there was this, this disenfranchised group of people that felt hopeless because government isn't supporting you. You got to take care of yourself. But you don't know what that looks like. So you don't have a role model to follow. So you're like, I gotta find a way to make money, I gotta find it, whatever it is. And then just figuring it out and not having good role models is where people get in trouble. And now the Internet's littered with garbage. Coaching, consulting, garbage products, way overpriced. People scam like all this because again, there's no playbook for how to take control over your own life.
- [19:15]
B
Yeah, and that's something that people won't buy.
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A
It's true.
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B
So if you go online and you're like, here's how to make 10 grand a month, here's how to take control of your life, no one's buying this because it's air, because it's like, oh, what, what's going to happen? But you're giving me a result, I'll go here. And that's direct response Marketing 101, which everyone taught from the get. Like, we're talking ogles. Be all these guys back in the day, Frank Kern, all them, they all taught direct response. Results, infatuations, storytelling, CTAs. That's all they t. So it's like they're not going to buy that thing, even though that's the correct answer, by the way. Because if they don't have control, they don't have discipline, they don't have consistency, and now they're lost. And now this result will never happen anyway. So it's like the dangling carrot is what people will buy.
- [19:58]
A
Marketers are the worst, and I'm one marketers of the absolute worst.
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B
They are.
- [20:04]
A
What form of direct response is ethical versus non ethical? Like when you, when you speak about some of these guys, like where they dangle the result, what makes that offer like a valid offer that people can actually achieve, if that makes sense.
- [20:19]
B
So it's about, like when I, whenever I think about creating offers, I look at what could the average person achieve? Okay, so when I built my offers, I never gave guarantees. I give averages because also it's for FTC compliance. You can't just go on and say, oh, you're guaranteed 10k in 90 days. That's bold. Very bold.
- [20:40]
A
But you'll probably get sued.
- [20:41]
B
Yes. So then the other side of the coin is like with my webinar offer, for example, I'm just like, hey, done for your webinar in 14 days. If you don't ROI in your investment, you don't pay the second payment because it's a split pay. We take on half the risk. You take on half the risk.
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A
So your first payment is covering your cost.
- [20:57]
B
Yes, covering my cost until I get you your win, which is doubling your Money. So it's, it's 10k now and 10k once you hit $20,000 in sales. And then from there you have this webinar that you just keep running every single week with or without us, and you keep making money. So that's the way we just install it. Four months of management. Cool. Have a blast. If you want to stay cool, there's a continuation fee. You can take that. You're not locked into that. You're only going to be locked into that if you hit your roi, right? So it's like I built offers that gave people realistic outcomes. What you don't want to say is get a done for you webinar and hit 30k in 30 days. That's freaking bold. You got to watch a lot. Yeah, I don't like to do money in time frames. I stay away from that, right? So like when I talk about my ad services and all my ads, I'm like, hey, for every dollar we've spent on average, we've gotten $4 back or more. 90 plus nich verticals. People who got in the phones are like, is that a guarantee? Nowhere. Did I say guarantee? Nowhere. Does that say anything of you are guaranteed to put a dollar in you. Four dollars. That is our average across clientele. Right. So people take the expation and run with it. You got to be careful the things you say. So it's like the Internet space is very. Money in time frame. Money in time frame. And it's like trading offers too. Trading offers are very ftc, borderline grayline craziness.
- [22:14]
A
Explain what a trading offer is.
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B
Like people who are like, oh, what?
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A
Like, like financially?
- [22:18]
B
Yeah, like day trading. Like, hey, like, you know, look at me. Day trade every morning and make ten grand a month. Like that's bold. Like you gotta watch yourself. And, and the part about that people don't realize is why do people get away with it? So great concept. When you can push offers like that, you're not doing enough volume. The FTC is not going to waste their time on somebody making 100 grand a month. They're not. They go after the people who are making 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 million a month. And, and obviously above and more. That's who they want to go after because the payout's better. That $100,000 a month guy, okay, we can go to him and say, hey dude, refund your past 30 customers. It's not going to hurt him that much. Maybe he'll lose 60 grand, 80 grand, right? And then he'll stop he'll do compliance coaching because I went through FTC lawyers and we have one internally like you have to go through all this training and then you pay for it and it's like a whole process. Not going to cost him that much. But they go after that guy who just sold 30 million bucks in a year they're going to get a fat 8 to 15 million out of his ass and he's got the refund people and he's got to go through training and he can and and he has signed a non compete for about 10 years. He can't do on the Internet.
- [23:22]
A
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B
marketer, the worst person that I've seen do, claims it's got to be Kevin David. Man, Kevin David had a crazy, crazy offer. It was like an Amazon FBA offer. Yes.
- [26:12]
A
Yeah, he got in a lot.
- [26:13]
B
He got sued for like 40 something million. Yeah, that one happened.
- [26:17]
A
Well, I know, well there's, there's people that have actually gone to jail over like the Amazon. The Amazon store front said there's a guy out of Utah, I can't remember his name now. I think he went to jail for, for promising like setting up Amazon storefronts with like a guaranteed roi. It's like a forty, fifty thousand dollar investment and he would like not even set it up and just, it was like pure in. It was like, it wasn't like FTC or like FTC like bad marketing. It was just straight fraud.
- [26:46]
B
Yeah. And then that can turn when you get, you know, class actions, like 100 plus people coming forward. I believe the, the numbers are, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure you need a fat sample group. Then you have a class action lawsuit, which is worse. You know, that's like reputation, that's lawyer fees. Like there's way more to that. And then once you fill file class action, that's where FTC starts looking around.
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A
That's when. Yeah, that's when you're in real trouble.
- [27:10]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:12]
A
Talk to me about. Okay, so you built a Wojo media. You've been doing it for how long? Eight years.
- [27:16]
B
This. Eight years? Yeah. As of last week. Yeah.
- [27:18]
A
So you've hit Inc. 5000, 2024, 2025, hopefully 2026. Right now you have $150 million plus you're managing.
- [27:29]
B
That is in client revenue over the eight years.
- [27:31]
A
Yeah. Oh, okay, gotcha. Okay, cool. And you've worked with over 1300 businesses. You have over, you mentioned over 100 person team. You have 590 plus active clients. So you've built a very successful media company. So what has differentiated you? Because if somebody's, they're like, okay, fine, I get it. I want to be an entrepreneur. I'm not going to listen to him. I'm not going to go sell and just make my life easy and make some money there. I actually want to build something. I know how to content market, I know how to sell, I know how to run ads, whatever. I want to build an agency. An agency. It's interesting. There's so many, you can build so many different kinds of businesses, but an agency seems to be a kind of business that if you do it right, you'll always find a way to become successful eventually. Because I see guys that build like agency, sell it agencies and they just keep, they can keep doing it. Like, I mean like, look, I mean like the example of like the biggest agency owner that I know, that's not conglomerate like a Neil Patel. I know Eric sue was single grain and, and like even Eric for a while he was talking to me about how he was like able to buy agencies and then like roll them up and then resell them.
- [28:38]
B
That's what we do. We just don't publicize it.
- [28:40]
A
But he knows how to like the point is like you, if you know how to build an agency, it seems to be like something that will always exist. People always need somebody to help them with shit they don't know how to do themselves. So my question really is you've built a badass agency. What has made you successful? Like what's the differentiator that has allowed you to hit like the Inc. 5000 list, you know what, two, three times in a row, tons of clients been in business eight years. Like what's the, what's the secret sauce to building an agency?
- [29:07]
B
So number one is you always have to have good offers. You can't just sell like broad regular shit. You can't just sell like ads and funnels. You have to sell mechanisms which require you to have a productized fulfillment and obviously like a service. So we have like done for you webinar. We have done for you low ticket. We have the done for you ads, but that's most of the clients resigning and continuation. We sell mechanisms. So for example, you have a content agency, what you should be selling is fan pages. They don't care about the views, they care about the mechanism. The mechanism is the fan pages. The result is the views. You look at what most people sell in the content space. It's like, hey, get a million views in 90 days or you don't pay whatever the hell people do. Now. I don't want to do that. I want to say, hey, I'm going to set up 10 fan pages for you that get on average X amount of million views a month using this blah blah, blah strat. People care about that, then they care about the results. So if you combine mechanism with views, that's where you get like, that's where
- [30:03]
A
you just start scaling because you stand out compared. And you sound so different compared to
- [30:07]
B
everyone else because it's just one page though. So think about this. Like I have a, a content agency that does this for me with the fan pages. I didn't go to them for the views guarantee. I said, dude, how did Andrew Tate blow up? How did Iman Gadzi blow up fan pages? That's all I give a about. High level people buy high level products. And I only wanted that. And they were like, yeah, we're switching. They switched their offer because of me. I was like, dude, I want fan pages. You know, I'll drop 30, 40 grand a month on fan pages. They're like, what the. Is this guy psycho? I'm like, yep, Because I know that the, the virality and the ecosystem will be bigger. So like fan pages are a way better angle than one profile.
- [30:43]
A
It's like unique positioning of an offer.
- [30:45]
B
That's the first thing. Second thing is people. When you hire cheap, you get. Most agencies, they hire cheap. Their QA is atrocious. They're always in the trenches. They always said like, if your business has qa, it means the people suck. If you need qa, the people are B players that you're trying to turn from B players and A players. It doesn't work that way. The person who's, let's say we're finding a video editor. Video editor wants 1500 bucks a month. Probably not the best good video editors, 1, 3, 4, 5, $6,000 a month. That person, we don't need to spell check his. So now we can save time, productize, raise prices, increase retention, get more resigns, and then make the business bigger. Because those clients that are willing to Pay for the premium service who are likely their friends. Hey, dude, I got no problems with them. I don't got to check my. You should work with them too. Higher level entrepreneurs like myself are like, yeah, I don't want to have to QA and check this, I'm in. I'll pay more for it. And then the third comes down to maturity models. When you're hiring a team and you're building culture, you have to realize where people want to go. And that comes down to your PPF goals. Personal, professional, financial. Where is your team at as a scope of like, do they want a family? Where do they want to live? What age are they? What are their goals like as founders and CEOs, we don't ask our team members question because most people in this online space are, I pay you, I own you. Do what I say. That's all it is. You don't care about the individual. You don't care that the woman's having a baby. You don't care that this guy's sick. You don't care about anything else but yourself. And that's the problem with most of these people is that they hire people and they think that they own you. So now people are hopping. Like, there's so many people that I know in the space where they've worked for all these other people. Like, why do you keep hopping? Oh, because this person doesn't give a. This person, this person's. That nobody cares about their goals. So when they go home, they don't associate you with their goals. They're like, it is just a paycheck. It's just a paycheck. No one gives a. And then the fourth is lifetime back. That is the only number, if anything, that we focus on. So there's two numbers with lifetime value, lifetime value to quick win and lifetime value to resign. So client comes on, this can go the same for you. Maybe you're thinking about this in your head right now. Client comes on, they get their first 500,000 viewed video. What should we do Right there. Call them. Congrats on your 500,000 view video. We have another package I want to introduce to you and you have an early resign bonus on that. Do you want to discuss that? I'm going to take what you paid us already and put it towards this. And we're not going to post once a day for you. Now you go to two posts a day so you can double up your performance. And here's what it looks like. Do I have a go to charge the card on File sick activation. Then we get to. Let's say you do. I don't know what your contracts are, but let's say you do a four, six month. Let's say you do a six month contract. What are we doing with this client every 30 days to make sure that we are planting the seed that we want them to resign. And if we don't get to them within 45 to 60 days, they've already made their next move on who their next partner is. They're already shopping because if they're not happy with your already, they're finding somebody else to do it. So those two points, doing fulfillment services, that's where you got to be looking at. And then if I had to give a bonus, 1/5 would be brand. It's funny because you saw some video that came out or whatever. I've had a very clean brand for years. Never been sued, never been hit by the FTC, have five stars on Google, 4.9 on Trust Pilot. I've never gotten, never gotten hit with nothing. That's important, right? Have there been bold things that I've said online? Of course, and I will stand by those things all day. But running a business at the level that we're at, you can't do that by people over. You can't. And it's just this thing of like the online space has all this, all this. And I'm still gonna get from people who are below me because they know how far we've gone. And it's like, I just built a good team of getting some good culture. Like that. That's really it. Like. And then as you keep going and going and going, another bonus one would be like, yuri, do it. Obviously. But it's podcasts for people who want to build an agency. You need content. You need to be able to have associated partnerships. Not partnerships, but with people who have other good names. If you're an agency and you're helping people. Excuse me, and you're making money, people should be inviting you. On podcasts, it means that people associate, they want to be associated and they like you. If they don't invite you, you don't have content. Now no one trusts you. And that brings me to the, to the bonus. Which is, which is trust factor. You need to have high level business acumen to even get to an eight figure level. You can't like the stuff I just talked about. People don't look at, they're like, oh yeah, I try to upsell my clients, I resign them. No you don't. You'd be at half a million a month or more.
- [35:39]
A
It's interesting to me because, I mean, over my career I've worked, I've worked in companies, I've built companies. But everything you're saying just sounds like really smart, standard business practice. Like, even when I was way back in my career, when I would like hire people, my background's in sales. When I first started, I'd hire sales reps. I mean, you, you want to tie not just, you know, their performance to their, their commission check and their on target earnings. You want to tie it to like, you know, where do you want to be in five years from now? Like, what do you want your life to look like? Do you want to get married? You want to have kids? You want to move into like manager, director, VP level? You want. Maybe this company that we're working at right now doesn't even have the title that you want. So like, how do we get you to go work for Fang at some point? Because maybe that's where you want to end up in your career. Whatever. So all these ideas are actually very, very smart, normal ideas. But it, I guess I haven't been in the agency space for as long as you have, but it seems like these ideas like just completely miss the agency space. Like, which is wild.
- [36:38]
B
Most clients are just a number and there's no incentive for the CSMs or the GMMs to want to re sign clients. There's no incentive because the business owners don't want to pay the resigns. We give every single GMM 10 of whatever they sell. The resigns, they could get paid residual for a very long time. If they keep their damn clients, their pay can almost be double. If they kept all 30 clients each, they would never have to worry about money again. Like literally never again.
- [37:06]
A
That's how every other business I've ever worked in works. Like with ongoing commissions on resigns, on, on renewing contracts. Whatever you always get, you always pay out the salesperson on it. I've always found that my biggest issue with agencies in particular is it seems like they always look for the cheapest talent and they work people to death. And I never understood that model. Like, it just seems like they, they, they don't respect people that work for them. And this is like, it's all the
- [37:35]
B
offshore stuff that started it. The word, the word virtual assistants made that thing possible. $3 an hour. Vas 5. Dude, they don't have any business acumen. You're placing a boulder in a business. They're not doing anything. They're Just doing like what do you call, paper pusher tasks. That's all it is. It's not real business acumen. You got to hire people with experience, hire people with, you know, good personality, know how to communicate, know how to pivot. Like these things matter in a business, especially when you're looking and tracked higher level clientele. The higher level the clientele, the higher level, the front facing client, people have to be.
- [38:13]
A
Why do you think agencies fell into this trap of only feeling like they can survive if they pay somebody five, six dollars an hour?
- [38:21]
B
Because all the agency coaching programs, they all teach this, all this, the VAs, the online jobs, pH, the higher people from Lebanon. And I'm like, dude, these people are cheap. They don't care. Oh, but $3,000 a month is a lot there. Listen, man, if that's a lot to him, he's not smart enough. There's more money out there in the world. If that guy really thinks that three grand a month's a lot to him, he hasn't seen. So that's a bad look.
- [38:49]
A
It's interesting. It's just interesting how this whole space evolved because I think if I remember from your story, you stumbled upon Tai Lopez's like smma. Was Tai Lopez teaching this model or.
- [39:02]
B
No, Tai Lopez was teaching the free trial with local businesses model.
- [39:06]
A
So he was not talking about how to structure a company and who to hire and what you should pay them and where you should hire them from.
- [39:12]
B
His thing was giving a VA Social media management posting, which to be fair, is not bad, you know, like, it's just posting. They're not client facing. But then what happens is it's like a drug, okay? You have, it's kind of. It's like any other drug, cigarettes, whatever, you take one, you're like, ooh, that's a cheap person. Now the next person you're like, oh, I need cheap again. And you keep going down the rabbit hole. Every new hire has to be cheap. If you keep paying everybody a thousand dollars a month and someone hits you in your DM and it's like, hey, I want to be your coo. I want eight grand a month, you're gonna have a heart attack because you don't know what it feels like to pay 4, 5, 6, $7,000 a month, that bridge you've never crossed. So now you're so used to paying vas, vas, vas. You want to bring on a CEO. Dude, people are like, yeah, Casey's your CEO. Yeah, Casey makes good ass money. Good ass money. Shit.
- [40:04]
A
And this whole mentality just screwed the
- [40:07]
B
industry because it's all low hanging fruit. That's another term that also ruined a lot of shit. But the barrier to entry, so low, like, dude, you got a couple hundred bucks and you could pay a va. 3 bucks an hour, what is that, $24? $24 a day, bro, times 22 working days a month. Where the hell am I getting someone full time for 600amonth? That person doesn't know anything. They just know how to answer emails, that's it. And maybe like report to you a couple things a day. That's not an employee, it is a paper pusher. That's all it is. And that whole stigma created all this. There's also other programs out there that are biz op based. There were programs years ago about becoming a media buyer. Okay, which is, you know, some people might know this, you know what it is, but someone who buys Facebook, you know, ads for business owners, people were like, oh, make 3 to 5k a month online. Being a media buyer, that became a biz op offer which flooded the market, which then made all these people that want to be media buyers be media buyers. But they're not business acumen, they're just media buyers. They don't know how to write copy, they don't know what good offers are, good landing pages, the systems, the emails, the sms, they're just, there's button pushers and that's it. So then that created a title. Like all these things create titles.
- [41:30]
A
But it's almost like all the, all these things we're talking about, people are just looking for hacks and like shortcuts.
- [41:37]
B
It's all shortcuts. That's the perfect word for it's all shortcuts. It's not really building a real thing.
- [41:43]
A
It's not, it's like how do I make enough money as an entrepreneur in air quotes working for myself so that I don't have to do a job anymore. It's not how do I scale this agency to 10 to 15 to $20 million, $50 million, have an exit plan, figure out who the strategic person is going to acquire me is. Like, figure out SOPs. Like, it's just like how do I make money outside of my job?
- [42:04]
B
We get higher level clients because we make more money than them. If I'm on a sales call with somebody and they're a roofing company making 12 million a year, I'm like, hey dude, we do 18 now. They trust you. More business acumen. If I'm just a starting out agency owner making 40 grand a month and I get an accounting firm that makes 35 million a year. You're not landing that shit. Neither are they going to trust you. It's the solopreneur agency thing of being on your own and pocketing some cash and just being an entrepreneur. You're just a contractor. For everybody listening. You are not an entrepreneur. If you are a solopreneur, you are a contractor. You are not paid through an S corp, you are. Every time you get paid, it goes straight to your stripe, it goes to QuickBooks and then you're buying your Louis Vuitton and all this other. And that's what you do. You are a contractor. It's not an entrepreneur. It's just. It drives me nuts, dude. And the agency space is flustered with this. Which.
- [43:00]
A
Which space? Sorry?
- [43:00]
B
The agency space. Yeah, it's just so flustered with it. And it's like, dude, it's just. And that's why we do get a lot of attention, a lot of clients, we run a lot of ads. People. I spend $30,000 a day on Facebook, we get a ton of traffic, we conjoin this space and just swallow it. And it's like, because I do that because I don't want all these other people trying to take my clients and all the cold email, cold outreach, cold DMing all this crap that people do. Dude, run ads. Cut all this other out. If you're that good, put your money where your mouth is. Run ads. Don't put a $3 an hour VA and bother everybody's DMS.
- [43:33]
A
What do you think about how AI will change the landscape of like low cost outsourced help workers? Like can you layer on AI to somebody who is 6 to 10 dollars an hour and make them 20, 25 dollar per hour worker?
- [43:49]
B
Now I think it's about efficiency. AI can't teach business acumen though. That's the issue. I can put a VA with Manus and have IT manage campaigns, but does maintenance know how to make the offer better? Does maintenance know what your cost per leads and lifetime value and all these things are? No, it's just more button clicking. It's more shortcuts to fix everybody's dopamine for the day. That's all it is. Like dude, like you know, running a big agency, we use AI for efficiency. We don't. You. We do not use it to replace. We do not use it client facing. We use it to be more efficient. Because I have a players that just need more help. That's all it was there to do.
- [44:29]
A
You're layering on the A players.
- [44:31]
B
We can make A players now a plus or a minus, whatever the next digit is, whatever. We could just make them better. And that's just the way that I looked at it was how can I be more efficient? Like, some of these softwares are pretty cool though. I will give people that, like, I
- [44:46]
A
love maintenance, by the way.
- [44:47]
B
Like, Manus is badass. There's other ones out there that do. Like the YouTube thumbnails that are AI and they look amazing. I'm like, all right, fine. Like you guys got some stuff with the AI. But still, dude, when you're in B2B, people still want to talk to a human brother.
- [45:01]
A
Of course.
- [45:01]
B
Like, if I go to a Facebook support chat right now and I want someone to help me with a Facebook ad issue, maybe my something's going on with the account or questions I got. They recently switched to monthly invoicing. So I was on a Facebook chat yesterday, this AI and I'm like, no, get me a human, man. Get me a goddamn human. I don't want all the chat bot.
- [45:18]
A
I know, it's horrible.
- [45:20]
B
I still need feedback loops from humans.
- [45:22]
A
No, it's really. It's actually very bad. It's very. All the chat, the people are over indexing on. On using AI. I learned that you tried AI for client deliverables, but the clients didn't like it. So you pulled it back.
- [45:34]
B
We pulled it back. We tried using Claude and the bots for the copy and the VSLs clients started seeing it. They're like, now we can tell that. Say, I could do it myself. And that's the problem with the agency is that, oh, I could have just done that myself. Why am I paying you?
- [45:48]
A
Yeah, there's this new company out called okay, so I didn't realize this, but said backwards. It's so it's AI slop. So it's Polzia Polzio, which is a new company that just came out. The guy's all over Twitter and he's basically saying like you put in a prompt for a business, this is going to add to. This is going to stress you the out. When you go research this, you put in a prompt and then with a prompt it will spin up a landing page, it'll build out email sequencing. It will spin up AI ads with like hey Jen and 11 Labs. And then run those ads with like one credit card. Obviously me bored at like four in the morning one time was like, let me go down this rabbit hole. It was absolute garbage. It Was the worst, worst experience ever. And I was like and. And it also was not like it was not responsive. So when I put in like say I want to. I think the prompt that I use was spin up a company to do like content marketing for restaurants. Like that was the prompt. And then it like just started creating everything that was kind of half ass. And really like if I was going to show this to somebody who was like a friend, I'd be like I would not want to present this as my company to a friend. And then it like started emailing like random restaurants. Like it would just like it just went off and then you anyway, like hold the off. Yeah, I was like hold the up. Like please don't email anybody.
- [47:11]
B
Like.
- [47:12]
A
But the point is I think that this is just the epitome of over reliance on AI.
- [47:16]
B
Yes.
- [47:17]
A
And that was, that to me was extreme. But I think people are using. I mean this is what happened actually with a whole bunch of companies that implemented AI, laid off huge amounts of their team or just consolidated departments and then they realized that AI is not a replacement for a human. It should augment and like help people and increase efficiencies. But two things. First of all, you still need like a human at the helm to, to figure out how to use AI properly. And secondly, the biggest issue that people have with AI is that they don't know how to communicate with it. So prompting is a big issue because if you give this is going to add on to your point where you mentioned you can't just turn like a D player into an a player with AI, somebody who is six to eight to $10 an hour does not know how to prompt AI to get the output that you actually need. It's very difficult.
- [48:06]
B
You're in a very expensive developer and that's going to be 50, $75 an hour and you're still getting railed then 100.
- [48:14]
A
So anyway, just over reliance on AI. Like listen, I use it in everything that we do, but still over reliance and just completely ignoring the human element in business is definitely not there yet.
- [48:23]
B
One thing I use it for a lot is just research, like just data research. I use it for hooks, for stats, for videos. I use it for like using specific shit videos. Yes.
- [48:35]
A
So going back to sort of a little bit of your origin story. When you first started building out Wojo Media you were like all in. You were working 19 hour days. I think you passed out at one point and you had to like go to the hospital or something.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah, that was my burnout weekend.
- [48:49]
A
So Was that. Was that. Was that the low point? Was that the thing that caused you to figure out how to build a business and not just be this, like, solo operator, entrepreneur?
- [48:59]
B
Like, that was during a weekend where I had an event in my house in Tampa. I had like, maybe 10, 11 entrepreneurs in my living room. And I was having a lot of fun that weekend. You know, I flew this girl and we were having a ton of fun, and we were starting to talk. And I also had people at the house, and we were doing marketing and I was doing content. I had someone filming me. It was really cool for some reason. Dude, Sunday, I drop her off at the airport. I get out, I get back in a car, and I'm driving away, and I pass the out at the wheel. So I'm driving and I hit these, like, cones at the airport, and I just had, like, this weird burnout session where I felt like I neglected my business for two days and I freaked the out.
- [49:35]
A
So what was it? Burnout? Was it panic?
- [49:36]
B
It was both. Like, I just, like, I was so stressed about leaving my business for two days because I was the solopreneur that I, like, passed out the wheel and my McLaren hit all these, like, cones. I passed out and this guy, like, stopped the car from rolling. It's the craziest ever, dude. I almost ruined my car. And I was like, I woke up and I, like, put water on my face. I had water in the thing. I just threw it on myself. And like, that was the day where I was like, bro. And then I came back, I got back to the house, I was okay, and then I went upstairs and I had another panic attack. It was. It was just like the stress of, oh, my God, what happened for the past two days? Like, I hope. I hope I didn't answer anybody on Friday. Is a client going to ask for a refund? All these things were, like, in my head. And I just burnt the out and passed out again. And I woke up the next morning. Troy, who was living with me, came in the room. He's like, dude, we're about to go get dinner. I said, what the you mean? I just got back. It's breakfast time. He's like, no, bro, you've been sleep. Wait, where were you? And I was like, dude, I dropped, you know, her off at the airport. He's like, bro, it's Monday, not Sunday. I'm like, holy. So I fell asleep and passed out for, like, almost 18 hours. And I woke up. He said, we're going to get breakfast. It's the Weirdest thing ever, dude. It freaked me out.
- [50:45]
A
So this was like a wake up call for you.
- [50:46]
B
Yeah, bro. And then that morning, I was literally like, all right, I need, I, I, I, I, I, I need to hire Dave more, give him more work. Because I had my friend Dave working and I was paying him three, four grand a month. I'm like, dave, move the in. I'll give you $8,000 a month. Move in. I'll pay for your rent. $8,000 a month. Can you do it? He's like, yes. I was like, all right, cool. Let's get Dave in the house. Dave moves in. I'm like, let's go, Dave. We got this. And that was like the turning point where I started to see the value in people. He wasn't fully committed yet because you'll make a four grand a month. He's like, bro, I'm not moving in. I got a girlfriend and I got a dog. And I was like, yeah, but dude, like, you're not married yet. Like, get the in here. So then I got him to move in, and that's where I started realizing people's worth and, like, really started caring about people. I took him on trips, I took him everywhere he went. I poured into that kid and like, it was great to see it. And then he went to 10 grand a month. He went to 12 and like, he started being a right hand dude. And then, you know, his thing, unfortunately, you know, he got married, then he had two more dogs. He moved out, obviously privacy reasons. And then, you know, his big thing was faith. He wanted to be a pastor, go to the church. And that's when we eventually split ties. But like, yeah, like, that was his big thing. He didn't want to be the money hungry dude. He just wanted to be a part of the church. So then we parted ways.
- [51:58]
A
How do you, as an entrepreneur? Because I think this actually plagues, like, a lot of people that are, again, the founders that are successful. They figure this out. They have to figure this out at some point. Hopefully it doesn't come to the point where you like are burning out and passing it at a wheel, but you got to figure out how to remove yourself from the business, how to delegate. I think it's a lot. I think it's very hard for people. Even if they do hire, I think that their identity is still tied to
- [52:22]
B
the business because they, because they, they have a control problem and they want to always see the money.
- [52:27]
A
So outside of passing out and almost dying, how do you recommend entrepreneurs, like, psychologically in a Healthy way build a business so that they don't have this almost like unhealthy attachment because it's a balance. Right. So having your identity tied into a business is a superpower because you give it 200% and you will never hire somebody that cares about it as much as you do. But at the same time, if your identity is too wrapped into a business, you probably make not so smart, maybe emotionally driven decisions. If things don't go right, you can be depressed, have hang like high anxiety. You could burn out. So what's your example to navigate this? Because you just went through this in a major way.
- [53:12]
B
Yeah. So the biggest.
- [53:12]
A
How many years ago was this into the business?
- [53:15]
B
Five and a half. Five years.
- [53:16]
A
About three and a half years into the business. Yeah.
- [53:18]
B
Okay, so like the biggest thing is that piggybacking off what you said, you said if you are the one doing it all. The biggest thing too to keep in mind is that once you have your identity in it now, you lose all the, in your innocence. The biggest thing for me is that I didn't have my hobbies anymore. I didn't have the things that I actually enjoyed. I got into business to make money, unfortunately, because I was poor when I was younger. So when I was in control, I wanted to see the money, watch the money, be the money. And then all the other shit that I used to like. I gave up video games, basketball, tennis, going to the movies. I gave it all up because I cared about money more. And that's what really caused the burnout, is that I was so wrapped up in what everybody thought of me and being this like, even making 100 grand a month, I thought I was hot. I was this kid in Tampa living in some big ass mansion, paying rent. I was young, I was stupid, I was naive. This is the way I was. And I'm okay admitting that because everybody makes mistakes. Everybody, you know, goes through these, these transitions.
- [54:18]
A
And if they don't, they're lying.
- [54:19]
B
They're. Yeah, dude. Like money made me think about certain things a certain way. And like, I started losing touch of things I enjoyed. So when I hired Dave, you know, we used to live with Nick and Troy and Dave and me and Nick used to go play basketball a lot more once Dave was there. I used to go to the park and, you know, play basketball scrimmages. And then I would go to the movies. I'm like, oh my God, I feel like I'm kind of getting my life back a little bit. Not so consumed in money. Like, yeah, you know what If Dave up and I gotta refund somebody a
- [54:51]
A
thousand bucks, it's not the end of the world.
- [54:53]
B
It's not the end of the world. And it's like, damn. Like, I felt like a better gasp of breath of, like, being okay with going south. Because if you want to scale a business, you're not able to see everything. Like, we have 500 clients. I can't see 590 clients. There's no freaking way, dude. I wouldn't even be able to do this podcast. I was kids, I'd be grilled and work for 19 hours a day. There's no possibility. I wouldn't have a girlfriend, wouldn't have dogs, wouldn't do. Wouldn't travel. I couldn't even travel for the day. My calendar would never be able to have a day off. There's just no chance. I would have to move all these calls and take calls on Saturday and Sunday, which now takes out of basketball, movies, enjoying life, dogs, things that matter, girlfriends, all this. Yo, Jazz. You know, I, I, I, I look at the 80, 20 rule. You know, it is cliche, but it matters because people don't look at it because they get so simple. What do I do 20 of the time that draws 80 of the results. Like, what things was I good at? I was good at recording ads. I was good as at content. I was good at selling. Like, I was a insane salesperson because it was my business. It should have been that way. So what did I do? I freaking got Dave in there, started looking at all this. The 80 that didn't make any money. I'm like, I gotta offload because if I raise my ad spend, I can get more calls and I'll make more money to pay for all the I'm about to pay for inside of payroll. So all the 80, like, if you look at a. Where was I? I was like 80, 000amonth when I hired Dave. Say 70, 000amonth. Maybe I'm giving this for contest. People understand it was a 70 grand a month paid Dave 8. I had a couple designers, graphic designers, funnel people, like really small people on fiverr. And so I was probably paying like 11, 12 grand a month and just payroll. Okay. After that, I was like, okay, I gotta take a step back because I saved enough money. The solopreneur grind is actually enjoyable because you retain so much cash.
- [56:43]
A
Of course it's like all profit.
- [56:45]
B
So, like, for three years, dude, I did it, and I saved a lot of money. I wanted a safety net because that's what I Grew up as I wanted to have, you know, my number was a mill, as I need a mill. So in case some goes down, I could recover. That was always my thing. Just get a mill in the bank account. And now I can go hire this person, get this CRM, get whatever the I want, go live here, not care about the bills. Let me just get some relaxation. So as soon as that happened, then I got Dave and I started hiring all these people. Media buyers, developers, GMMs. I hired a COO when I was making 70,000amonth. But I was only making maybe 15, 20K a month for about three months because I was ramping these new team members into KPI and I was afraid of losing that. I was like, dude, I just need like at the time, my, my rent, I split it with two people. I had, you know, I had my McLaren, which was about 2, 000amonth. And then I had another car. I was maybe.
- [57:34]
A
That seems cheap for a McLaren.
- [57:35]
B
Yeah, because I put $80,000. Oh.
- [57:37]
A
I was like, that's like a wildly cheap.
- [57:39]
B
So I put 80K down. That car was 165. I got an old 570s Spider Edition. That was my first McLaren Brawl. That's my favorite car of all time. And yeah, because I had no relationship with the bank, I had to put 80k down, then maybe put half cash because my credit wasn't that great. So I did that. I was probably paying like 9,000amonth in lifestyle eight, 9,000amonth. So I was like, all right, 20 grand is left. I can still live off this. Like, this is fine. I'll eat for a little bit. I ramped them into KPI, and then I was able to take that, you know, 20 of what I was doing and make it even better. Then I started taking the sales calls which paid for all that. So then we hit 100k a month, 125, 150. And then I was like, okay, I've taken, oh my God, probably like 800 to 900 sales calls. I'm like, bro, let me find a fucking salesperson. So then I found the salesperson. One on the calls with them for three weeks, brought him into KPI. And I was like, now I have no calls. Now I can focus on making the product better. Sitting at 150, 160,000amonth. Now I'm going to make the product better, focus on ascension retention, make these team members better. And now is only on calls for like one or two hours a day. And I was like, damn, I risked so much money for Months. I eat, I made less money just to make up for it.
- [58:51]
A
Indeed is a success story, Partner. Now, if you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. Let me give you an example. If I needed to hire a new editor for this show, I'd go to Indeed and be super specific. Not just can you edit audio. I'd say I need someone who's edited a conversational podcast for at least three years, gets our style and knows our software. Someone who's done this before. And here's the thing with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, I'd get people who fit that description. I'm not digging through resumes from people who've edited one YouTube video. I'm getting actual podcast editors who know what they're doing. People who've worked on shows like ours and can prove it. That's what makes a difference. You get people who actually are what you're looking for. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs. And people are finding quality hires right now. In the minute that I've been speaking to you, companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed. According to Indeed Data Worldwide. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all the boxes. Less stress, less time, and more results. Now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help you get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com Clary just go to Indeed.com Clary right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast, Indeed.com Clary terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the Right way with Indeed. HubSpot is a success story partner. Now if you're looking for a new podcast, one of my favorite shows right now is Demand Decoded. If you're in the B2B marketing space, you need to be listening to this. It's hosted by the team at Blend. They are a demand gen agency. They know what they're doing. They're also part of the HubSpot podcast network. What I love about it is they skip all the theory and they just tell you what's actually working today. So demand gen marketing, content, LinkedIn, ads, attribution. They talk about real strategies that they are using that you can use today that are working. So if you're an entrepreneur, if you're building a business, if you're really selling anything to anyone, go search Demand Decoded wherever you get your podcast. So your agency has sort of obviously changed a lot over the past eight years. I mean, if I look Back to when you first started, I think one of your mentors with Greg Barry, you were talking about like these small offers. You, I want to just understand why you've moved away from things you're no longer doing and sort of like where you're at right now. Before we press record, talking about webinars, live events. So what's changed in the last eight years of you building like a pretty successful marketing agency? Is that what you refer to as a marketing agency? Yeah. So marketing agency, over the past eight years, what's changed in terms of what you offer clients, what you see people buying, what's working for people, and then what has stayed the same?
- [61:19]
B
So before I did mass scale ads like myself to get more clients, the biggest thing back then was low ticket funnels. It was selling something for 2797, retaining, getting some, you know, what we call a self liquidating offer and then we use that cash to get booked calls for free. That was a big thing back then. But then cost of ads went up, up competition, the fee went up, CPM skyrocketed. And I thought it was because of the economy. It was not. It was because of trust. We are in this big trust recession because we were talking about this in the very beginning of the podcast about coaches and selling coaching to coaches to coach more coaches on, you know, obviously we'll go down the rabbit hole. But like that caused a lack of trust. So now you have to spend more money to get the same customer. And if that customer is not worth enough to you and your sales cycles are longer now, you have to be able to build the trust gap. So that's when I started sitting there and I was like, okay. And right when I was at that 150amonth mark, that's when I started running events because I knew that I had to build more brand equity in the space, run more ads locally in all these cities. I was running them in Dallas and Austin and Newport beach and San Diego and Miami and Orlando and Tampa and New York City. All these cities, Chicago too. And I did those for free events to get brain awareness and authority and to start posting better content. I was like, hey, I can get here through direct response ads. 150k. I have a lot to lose now though. I can lose all this. So then I went really ham on events.
- [62:51]
A
And is that the play now?
- [62:53]
B
That's still the play now for just like brand and trust and just like associate associated selling, I guess you could say. So yeah, that was a, a big play for us. And then I started A school group. Group. Okay. And, and this was pretty recent. Like, you know, school came out maybe about two years ago. Really, I built a school group and I started running ads to it. And I was like, this is really easy. Like I can just get people in here for eight, nine bucks on ads. Like, this is pretty damn good. Started running weekly group calls. And I wasn't big into webinars back then. I didn't understand it as well as I do now, but I knew how to sell in person at events. But I never did like online webinars. So then I started running these group weekly calls and 60 people started showing up. 70, 80. And I was like, wait a minute, all these people are live? I can sell our services. What the am I doing? Just teaching. I can get these clients and acquire them. So then I started doing like, I started building a pitch deck. I researched through Frank Kern, Russell Brunson, all these like webinar frameworks Jason Flatlin started. You know, I went to them directly and paid them for hours of their time and started getting like, good at webinars. And I started selling like six, seven, eight people a week on my group. While I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Other people can do this too. No one in the entire online space right now is running the offer that I have.
- [64:17]
A
So your offer is ads to community? That's. Is it?
- [64:21]
B
Well, no, I'm just about the webinar piece. Oh yeah, that's when the shit clicked and I was like, wait a second, dude, I can get people. Because you want to know why nobody trusts the person with a thousand followers? Because they don't know them yet. They're not personal with them yet. So if I planted this kind of webinar system into people's businesses and allow you to build more trust and credibility, you have a better chance of selling than a fucking cold ass booked call. So I was like, oh. And then that's when I got the idea. And that was about 2ish years ago where I got the whole webinar idea.
- [64:51]
A
And I was like, another offer? That's another mechanism.
- [64:54]
B
Mechanism. There you go. Perfect. Yeah, okay, I did that. And that's been our offer for a year and a half. Was done for you. Webinar in 14 days. That has been it. And it has crushed. I mean, crushed. Like, dude, we have enterprise clients coming to us getting webinars built for weird departments in their business. Like, we had a client last week, they run some tech firm and they wanted us to build a webinar around selling People on the company's retreat. I'm like, what the hell kind of client is that? They run an 80 million dollar year business and they just wanted a webinar built to sell their employees on why they should invest to come to the company retreat.
- [65:29]
A
It doesn't matter what you're selling.
- [65:30]
B
I'm like, holy shit, dude, these clients are crazy. So you know, like they pay, you know, the conversion rates are high, the clients are good. Like it's a lot of fun.
- [65:40]
A
I was thinking about the way you just laid out your funnel. So what you were doing was paid ads to school community. Paid or free?
- [65:48]
B
Free.
- [65:48]
A
Free school community. Nurture them in the community. And by the way, that's a whole. That, that again, separate conversation. Why community is so much better than audience. But yeah, so community in the community. Then you run webinars and because they've been nurtured in the community, they are sort of trusting a little bit. Webinar puts them over the top. Conversion is much higher.
- [66:05]
B
And then also what we did was we used the free event to fill up our free event rooms. So sorry, I said that wrong. We use the free school group.
- [66:14]
A
Understood.
- [66:14]
B
Yeah, we made posts in there. I started running ads in only the popular states. So all the events that I run, they're in Florida, Texas, California, New York, Illinois, Georgia. Because I do some in Atlanta. I only ran the school ads there. So when I make a post in the school group and I'm like, hey, we're having our event in Miami.
- [66:36]
A
The flock of leads, it's all, it's all. They're all from that city or one of the cities.
- [66:40]
B
Yeah, it was gonna fill up our events and then we sell in person and it's just this pinwheel that just runs. And we got 18000 people in there right now. Crazy.
- [66:49]
A
You have 18, 000 people in your school communities.
- [66:52]
B
We have 18, 000 and we just stuck these all in there and now it's just like an ever ending machine. And then I hired an outbound setting team. This is where it gets fun. We did that last month. We just did it. I'm like, I know I'm behind, like that's my fucking fault. But like we, we built the outbound setting team. We got all their phone numbers and if they're willing to spend at least 100 bucks a day on ads in the school question. Now all the people on school are getting outbound dialed and getting set and we've. Dude, my biggest month was last month. We added about an extra 200 grand a month alone just from the outbound setting team calling school leads based on their qualifications. And we just hammered the phones, getting an extra five to seven book calls a day. Two of those were buying like that's been the game for us because now I'm branching community, branching lead touch points, I'm branching events and I'm branching data. And that was all we decided to do. And like dude, it's freaking nuts. And then I have a second funnel right now. It's a free webinar course. I put together like a nice, like it's actually really, it should be worth more but I gave it for free as a value add as like hey, I want to build community. I want to get you inside of my ecosystem. We give that away for free. They get a straight Google Doc, they can get all the slide templates. I give them everything, bro. To build their own webinar within 48 hours, 24 hours if they sat down all day and did it. And that is getting me three dollar leads. My outbound setting team's calling them and we're just selling them DFY. And it's been crazy, crazy. I'm spending like 150 bucks, 200 bucks a day. Small money, but I'll get 70 leads. I'll book three to four calls a day, bro. I'm getting 40 bucks a book call on that. Now we just got to get more setters and I'm going to scale that to like 5k a day and just have an absolute rampage.
- [68:30]
A
It makes so much sense from just like a customer, a psychology standpoint why this is working so well. But I don't really see any other agencies or businesses at all that are selling the way that you're selling.
- [68:40]
B
They're not because the fulfillment's very hard. I have to admit that, that our fulfillment needs to be a little bit better.
- [68:46]
A
When you say fulfillment. So after the webinar, after the live event, okay, fine, then you have to do the done for you. But that's the fulfillment.
- [68:53]
B
That's that, that, that's the fulfillment. But the hard part about the fulfillment at 590 clients is like, like bro, three of them might not be motivated right now. Four team members might not be motivated. We gotta catch that early.
- [69:05]
A
Oh yeah, it's a people problem then.
- [69:07]
B
It's, it's a people thing. That's the hardest part. When you got 25 team members, you could look over their shoulder all the you want. 25 is not that much. When we're looking at like a hundred plus. No Chance, bro. No. Chance. Yeah, it's hard, but you solve the
- [69:22]
A
hard part of the business. You solve the making money part of the business.
- [69:25]
B
Yes.
- [69:26]
A
Just the hard part.
- [69:27]
B
If I had to say in the next six to eight months, our biggest goal right now, company wise, is just getting our resigns up like 5 to 8%. Like, that's our biggest goal. Get resigns up 5 to 8%. We're golden. Should I get about five? Which is a lot for people who don't understand. Like, you're like 5, 8%. Yeah. With 600 clients, that's a lot of people. You. If we raise that 5 to 8% and keep that for a whole quarter, boom.
- [69:52]
A
We're chilling the strategy you're using right now. Does this strategy have a lifespan on it or do you think it's something that, like, as you're moving more towards live events, do you think this is more like just the future of how sales is going to go?
- [70:04]
B
I mean, I've been running that same. Because we have our done for you ads funnel and we have our webinar funnel. The webinar funnel run for two years straight, no issues. And then the done for you ads funnel. That funnel has been running for six years, almost six years. It has never flopped. It's the same funnel, same landing page. And everybody laughs when they hear that.
- [70:23]
A
That's funny.
- [70:24]
B
It has never changed. Those ads that you'll see of me, you'll see if you ever come across it. It's an ad where I'm like, I'm gonna run your ads, and I'm pointing at you, and I have like a Ritz Carlton cabana in the background. That ad was filmed five years ago. That thing's been running for five years. I looked the same five years ago. And people don't think that, like, oh, it must be new ads all the time, dude. It's not about the ads. It's about the offer. And do they trust you or not? We get so caught up in this. Like, more creative. More creative, yeah. That stuff's important. I do it for testimonials and stuff. I'll do that. But if an ad's running and it's killing it, let it rock. It's the offer. The only reason why those offers work when it's just like, broad done for you, because people know, like, and trust me, me, if I had no association in the industry, no one knew who I was, that ad would not do well. That ad just consistently runs, and I love it. And it's like that whole school strategy that's running for two years. The done for you funnel has been running for six years. The webinar is running for two years. Low ticket funnels, those I actually don't run anymore. I just, I just have a book funnel on retargeting where I have my book for free, free plus shipping on my book. But that's ran at 50 bucks a day. Retargeting, small spend. But that's just there for like brand awareness and to get a couple buyers and who can then book calls. But yeah, I mean free lead opt ins. Those have been good over the last two months with the outbound setting team.
- [71:45]
A
You don't do a lot of low ticket at all then.
- [71:47]
B
Not anymore. The only little ticket I have are the events though. Because the, because the tickets they're 47.97, 197.
- [71:53]
A
But it's still low ticket. But super high trust, Bill.
- [71:55]
B
Oh hell yeah.
- [71:56]
A
So that's the difference between most low ticket which is like here's a PDF, here's a book here and who opens it.
- [72:02]
B
Only fucking 30% of them. 40% of them. They're the ones that like oh, I'll get to it. And then they wind up forgetting because
- [72:07]
A
live event, low ticket, it compounds because now it's brand for you, it's content for you. It's super high trust building. This makes a lot more sense.
- [72:13]
B
And I use the low ticket because the low ticket funnel self liquidates. So like I'll give you some stats. The event on Saturday, I spent 28000 on ads and I only got about 11000 back. Not a lot, but it means that I only spent 20 grand for $31,000 of people in the room. So now I just got to make up for that 21k plus the 5k in food and beverage. So I gotta make it for 26k. That's fine with me. I'm okay with that. We have Orlando in Tampa next week. Orlando is killing it, dude. I'm profitable on the front end for tickets. I'm talking about right now. The first day I ran it, I was spending like 500 bucks a day. I woke up to like 800 bucks. I was like what the is going on? Low ticket funnels. That was seven years ago. It's so hard to profit on the front on a low ticket funnel now.
- [73:05]
A
So difficult, you know, I don't do events but I have some friends that run like CPG companies and whatnot. Like even in the CPG space. Apparently if you are profitable and have like a Roas at all on like the first sale. Like you're like a unicorn now, bro.
- [73:18]
B
Unicorn. And I was like, I was like, dude, like these event funnels work. So I'm pushing out this new mastermind offer because the mastermind offer leads to my portfolio company. And that's kind of my play to get the 3 million a month is I need to get equity in businesses. I gotta start playing PE because I got cash on hand. Let me start throwing businesses a couple hundred grand here, a couple grand there. I want to get some equity and scale to 3 million a month that way without adding on more. If I can do that. The play is the mastermind. It's expensive enough people go in there, they qualify themselves, they start growing. I come in, hey, how much is 5%? How much is 10? How much is 15? Let's do it. And now I have a small portfolio, like a team behind me that's like all us, no VAs, like real sharks who come in there, build sales systems, build all the funnels, do all the marketing, shoot your videos in person, videographer, like all that. And then we get a percentage and then I split it with the team and everyone wins in this small little.
- [74:13]
A
I love that.
- [74:14]
B
So that's going to be through that because I can't sell done for you services through the events. It's too much for fulfillment. We have, you know, we have 100
- [74:23]
A
plus too much for fulfillment because I
- [74:25]
B
can't, dude, I, I, if I ran three events and I sold done for you, I'm going to sell 20 clients a day. My team can't onboard 60 people.
- [74:33]
A
HubSpot is a success story, partner. Now if you like the show, you need to check out the Hustle Daily Show. It's hosted by Juliet Bennett, Ryla Rob Littrust, Ben Berkeley and Mark Dent. It's brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network. They break down the wildest stories in business and tech. Everything from billion dollar industries hiding in plain sight to the real impact AI is having on jobs right now. It's quick, it's smart, it's never boring, and it's daily. Listen to the Hustle Daily show wherever you get your podcasts. Priori is a success story, partner. Now, how many times have you set a goal, you've been fired up for a week and then you've completely fallen off. That's not a discipline problem, it's a systems problem. That's why I use priori. It is a goal setting and habit tracking amplify built on neuroscience, backed by Harvard Research and inspired by atomic habits, you set your priorities and priori breaks them into small daily steps built right into your schedule. So instead of feeling overwhelmed, you just follow the plan. It gamifies everything. Streaks, check ins, small wins that build momentum. And 78% of users succeed after years of failing at the same goal. Over 12,000 people use it. They have a 4.7 star rating. It's free to download the check it out at priori life or search priori in the app store or Google Play. That's Priori life one a week.
- [75:51]
B
It's fucking impossible. We can, we can onboard about 20 to 25 new clients a week.
- [75:57]
A
One last thought on live event because now you are all in this and it seems like your conversion rates and everything about them is working really, really well. You said fulfillment stuff. But I, I, I personally believe you will find a way to solve that problem at some point because that, that is purely a people problem. For somebody who is listening to this and is thinking, okay, this sounds like an interesting way to grow my business. What is the one thing that they have to be aware of when they're running a live event that could completely like side rail this entire strategy?
- [76:28]
B
If you don't care about the attendees and you don't make things custom to them, they're going to feel like just the sitting duck. Like dude, we have, I don't, I don't mind sharing this on camera because I don't think a lot of people will find out. But dude, like we do custom handwritten notes, we do custom name tags, we do customized workbooks, we do all the research before you sit your ass in a seat. And you are just like, you're basically a client that hasn't signed yet. Like that's the difference in a live event. Live events where you just have a bunch of speakers go up about random. I hate that.
- [77:04]
A
That's the most, that's the majority.
- [77:06]
B
That's the majority of them. Like oh, here comes up him talking about wholesale real estate. Okay. He goes up, he's like I make a lot of money. Okay, cool. Next. And then it's just like after you
- [77:15]
A
go to enough events and you see all the same pay for play speakers, seeing, doing the same keynote, but instead
- [77:22]
B
I went the workbook route. So like is it boring? It's only boring if you're an idiot. If you don't care about your business, then it's boring. And like dude, like you know, transparency. I'll have 120 people. I won't be shocked if 10 walk out within an hour. I won't be shocked.
- [77:40]
A
But you don't care because they're not.
- [77:41]
B
I don't give a. Because they're not buying. They wouldn't buy water in a desert. They're not buying. So it's this thing where I also do more reciprocity for them. Reciprocity is huge in live events because if you charge somebody 9.97, you better give them a ton of free. You better make sure their food is comped, you better make sure they have nice drinks, you better make sure their water is always full. You better make sure they have a nice workbook, apparel, gift bag, all that. Now I don't charge 997, all right? I undercharge so I can over deliver. So 47 bucks workbook, that's 60 bucks for me to print from Staples. I'll get you your food and I'll let you come to cocktail and I'll shake your hand. I'll have a dance. I over deliver on it. And that eight hours of value you have to think about buying. You have to put pen to paper to figure out how to buy because you're like you feel so guilted. Then on the bottom of their seats is a handwritten note for my girlfriend that goes through all the attendees. No, they're not automated printed. They are all custom. Custom printed note with their name on it gives them two free bonuses if they come to the front of the room and purchase. Everything is articulated and custom to them. The note talks about their business in it. The note talks about where they want to scale because they fill out their RCP form before the event. I know everything about them. So like we do all this to make it an event that just over delivers on 47.97 bucks. It's, it's insane. It's just insane. I don't want to charge people more just because people tell me all the time, oh, raise your prices. No, I'll charge less. Get more people in the room. Impact more people. You can charge more. Do the motivational rah rah, sell them and then they'll refund you because your
- [79:24]
A
have a whole bunch of pissed off.
- [79:26]
B
And then you got pissed off people who caused the trust recession. Oh, I bought this thing from this guy and he didn't pro. He promised all this money and don't promise money. 80 of people are doing it. So now everyone's screwed. That's the problem. So now the 20 that are good like myself and you get screwed. Oh, I went to this person, I went to that person. They promised me all these things. We don't promise anything. You set the expectation yourself because you see me and that's the other issue. And that's why I need to take myself out of the ads as we go. And that's part of our enterprise value thing, which is next year I want to start hiring women and team members to shoot video ads. I'm going to pull myself slowly away from being the front face because the problem with people and like, yeah, dude, you're in content. I'm an ads. Sometimes clients get mad about shit. It's the way the world works.
- [80:13]
A
You can talk about that?
- [80:14]
B
Yeah, we can talk about that. There. There are more clients that get mad because the way I live than the fucking results. We have clients who are like, oh, I saw Wojo on Instagram today, driving around his McLaren. Where the is he? I'm like, dude, I'm not here, I'm not in the business. I'm the founder. Go talk to Casey's CEO. What I do has nothing to do with you. Oh, he's away, he's on vacation, he's traveling. Yeah, because I enjoy my goddamn life.
- [80:39]
A
It's interesting, right, the personal brand because double edged sword.
- [80:42]
B
It is a double edged sword. People don't get it because they don't have, they don't have privacy themselves and they have nothing going on for themselves. They gotta stick your, stick their nose in.
- [80:50]
A
All your people are bored.
- [80:52]
B
They are bored as. Dude, they are bored.
- [80:54]
A
So personal brand is, I mean, double edged sword. Double edged sword. It's like built everything that my life is right now. So it's been a huge benefit. But yeah, it comes with a lot of. I don't have a business at this point the size of yours and I still get like random stuff just for.
- [81:08]
B
But what I would say if I were to do it over once I hit half a million a month, I should have taken myself out. Do you believe that I should have? Yes. Yes. Because dude, the expectations biggest companies on
- [81:19]
A
earth now are building personal brands for themselves.
- [81:21]
B
Yeah, I just don't like it for the agency because it's money and money out. It's. I spent money with you and I got X amount out. And they're looking for quick money, quick fixes, shortcuts, and, and then it comes on to me and I'm like, dude, I wasn't the one that did X, Y and Z. I built my business through personal brand. So they think that they're getting me. That's the issue.
- [81:43]
A
Yeah, that's tough.
- [81:45]
B
Very tough.
- [81:46]
A
Have you changed your view on because you said at one point about controversy. If you're not willing to be controversial, no one's going to give a about who you are. Do you think about attention the same way or differently?
- [81:59]
B
Yeah, same way. No one cares anymore for the nice opinion. I think that people are tired of being lied to. I feel like people are weaning towards the truth more than more than ever. That's why controversial people online who actually say like real get a lot of views but they're mean. It's mean to say the truth. People like being lied to, bro. Because people like having drama and to talk about like think about most conversations, you know, we were all broke at one point. Think about all the conversations we had with other broke people. It was always negative, talking about negative, etc. That's how people want to be. So that's what then gets pushed out and that's what gets views. That's why politics get the most amount of views ever. When you look at Facebook ad stats during the political years, what gets the most views? Pepsi or Donald Trump? Donald Trump. It's always about opinions and controversy. It always will win. It is always going to be that way. Because if he says something that you don't agree with, you now have the, the full freedom of speech which is a valid, you know, thing. Everybody has freedom of speech but their freedom of speech is out of control. It's out of control. It's like everyone says the most wild now because they know they're going to get views for it or they get attention because people are needed.
- [83:09]
A
But that's again, that's too far.
- [83:11]
B
Too far. There are some opinions where I'm like, yo, like you don't know what the you're talking about like that.
- [83:16]
A
So you say that you genuinely believe will help somebody live a more successful life. There are people that say shit just to get views and they're not helping anybody.
- [83:26]
B
Like I, I had a video that went decently viral. I don't know what your views are, but I made a video because I truly believe and I said that I don't go to organized church. I do private prayer. I think that God is a private relationship. I think that's a very valid statement. A lot of people disagree. A lot of people agreed. I don't think that people need to be online talking about God and all this stuff. Keep that to yourself.
- [83:49]
A
Was that controversial?
- [83:50]
B
It was to a lot of people, dude. It was a religious based take but I was like, dude, I go to private prayer like every morning. I leave the house. I go to Dunkin Donuts. I get an iced coffee, I get a donut. And then I go to a local church and I just sit down in a pew and I do private prayer. I dip and I leave. I don't do organized. I don't want to feel like I'm getting something in my face. People to donate, give me money.
- [84:11]
A
Yeah.
- [84:12]
B
I want to do my private prayer. I want to go home and work on my business. And people I was like, hey, like, you know, I just enjoy that better. I feel like God is a proud relationship because you see people online, not going to name names, but they use God to sell people.
- [84:24]
A
Let's do overrated. Underrated. Just some ideas and some people in like the business thought leadership, marketing space. And then I want to pull out some last ideas. Some like words of wisdom for you that is, you know, talking to your younger self or talking to an entrepreneur, just getting started. Okay, so let's go through some of these people. Coaching. Underrated. Overrated.
- [84:48]
B
Overrated.
- [84:50]
A
Is there any space for it at all?
- [84:52]
B
Selling knowledge more in the business development space? Explain like higher level business advice. Like for people who are doing seven figures or higher. There is room.
- [85:02]
A
Kpmg, Deloitte, or is that. I still think that's overrated.
- [85:05]
B
Something I would go more for SOPs, hiring sales teams, things that are higher
- [85:12]
A
level, things that are not like very complex.
- [85:15]
B
Not copy and paste funnels. Like no.
- [85:19]
A
Okay, let's go through some people. Grant Cardone.
- [85:21]
B
Underrated.
- [85:23]
A
Why?
- [85:24]
B
I just think that a lot of people hate on him for certain things. And I think that since I've been through some of his programs and some of his stuff, like we're in the Elite 125. We did the platform. I spent 400 grand on it. Like they know what the they're doing. Like they run a real operation. They got 400 employees, they have a huge sales team. Like they know what they're doing. I've been in the office. Like it's not a joke.
- [85:45]
A
You work with Brandon Dawson too? And Natalie Dawson?
- [85:48]
B
Yeah. Pretty good friends in them too. Yeah.
- [85:50]
A
Hermosi. Overrated. Underrated.
- [85:52]
B
Overrated.
- [85:53]
A
Why is that?
- [85:54]
B
All the shit's for free on YouTube. I just don't see the value.
- [85:58]
A
Does he not sell implementation?
- [86:00]
B
He does, but it's not even with him. It's with a team of people that haven't grown a business to eight figures themselves.
- [86:07]
A
So he has. Because he, so he, he. His first exit.
- [86:10]
B
They charge 50k for a one day intensive and you don't even get to talk to the guy. It's a weird upsell. Personally, it's just stuff that are like. Like all the videos, like, I like the brand. I'm not against the guy. But all the questions you see of the content, someone will go up to the mic and they're like, I have two businesses. One makes 9 million a year. One makes two. Which one do I focus on? And they think he's smart for saying the one with nine. I'm like, bro, this shit's. It's common sense, man. Like, it's not. It's not crazy. It doesn't widen the gap for me.
- [86:40]
A
Bradley Underrated. Over.
- [86:42]
B
Bradley overrated.
- [86:45]
A
Why overrated?
- [86:46]
B
He's a dick. He's so mean, dude. He's just mean to everybody. He's just dude. Literally. I've tried to text him multiple times. I worked him on his ads. He wouldn't film any videos. And then his. His podcast, charging me 25, 000 bucks for a pocket. So I'm like, bro, it's not worth 25 grand. We go back and forth. He's just very, like, he's not a people person.
- [87:09]
A
He's like a confrontational.
- [87:10]
B
Oh, my God. Yeah, bro. Like, the text I have from him, I'm not gonna show people. But like, he's an. Yeah. No, no.
- [87:17]
A
Andy Elliott.
- [87:18]
B
Overrated. Why Sells air. And he owes.
- [87:21]
A
He doesn't sell sales.
- [87:22]
B
He sells air. He owes me 400 grand, and his employees were paying me instead of him. That one I'll go hard on.
- [87:33]
A
Yo. Is he 400 grand?
- [87:34]
B
Yes. I took their book Funnel from 0 to 14 million in 11 months. Everybody there sells air. It's just motivational. Rah rah. It's ridiculous.
- [87:47]
A
All right, let's go through some last sort of words of wisdom. So you said you're 28 now, right? Okay, so you built all this by 28. What do you understand now that you didn't know five years ago?
- [87:57]
B
People are more important than yourself. That'd be number one. Two is. Two is a dollar saved is not a dollar earned. And three would be.
- [88:19]
A
Oh,
- [88:22]
B
3 would be my 3x rule for spending money. So I started making money. So I spend a lot of money on stupid, where if you take something you want to buy, you triple the price, and if you're okay with it, you buy it. That was something I did not follow in the beginning. Now I'm good. But I didn't follow that rule in the beginning. I went ravage. But, yeah.
- [88:43]
A
What did you give up to build your. Your Life, your business that most people
- [88:48]
B
don't see, probably my peace.
- [88:51]
A
Are you happy?
- [88:53]
B
I'm happy with the way things are, but I would like to be a little bit happier. But what does that even mean?
- [88:59]
A
It's like, you know what, you know what happiness means and you know what, like, success means for you?
- [89:05]
B
I mean, I would like to exit at some point and I just don't want to work again.
- [89:12]
A
You're gonna be bored.
- [89:14]
B
I'll be bored, but I get to, like, chill for a little bit. Like, I would love. Okay, to answer your question simply, I would love to live my life for a year without the Internet, to answer your question very simply, and see what things I would enjoy in my life. Like, what things I would actually do, where I would travel, etc, what things would my life look like without the Internet for a year. Because I'll be honest, you, Like, I chose this business to make money, but like, dude, I hate the Internet. Hate it. And now I'm a part of it and I'm like, dude, there's just so much toxic. And I would just love to just not have a phone for a year and see what my life would look like and just spend time with my dogs in the middle of the desert with my girl and just not do, like, what books would I read? What habits would I take on? What puzzles would I fucking solve? Like, who the fuck knows, dude?
- [90:04]
A
Like, do you have a number you want to hit before you do that?
- [90:07]
B
I need 15 million saved.
- [90:08]
A
15 million saved is your fu.
- [90:10]
B
Number 15. I just need to have 15 million in the bank. Leave me the alone, and I can make that go a long way.
- [90:16]
A
Well, I mean, yeah, if you're hitting like 4 to 6% interest on that.
- [90:19]
B
Yeah, that's. That's the whole point. Yeah.
- [90:20]
A
What are you more afraid of now
- [90:22]
B
than when you started getting to the 15 million before? My parents pass, because I'd like to travel the world with them for a little bit as they get older.
- [90:29]
A
That's beautiful.
- [90:31]
B
I feel like that's the biggest worries that I'm. I get to get to that number quick enough, and that's why I'm going hard on events again. Is it selfish? A little bit. But I'm doing it for a good cause, to help other people and not try to make as much, but I just want to stack bread. Like, one of the biggest things that my mentor Greg said to me, and I never.
- [90:52]
A
Still your mentor still?
- [90:53]
B
I still talk to Greg. He's very off the Internet. He doesn't have an Instagram, nothing He doesn't do anything Internet. He actually has a Nokia cell phone. Like, biggest thing he said to me, he's like, bro, you know, he runs embroidery businesses, does like 300 million a year. He rents a house in Connecticut for five grand a month. He's the most humble, drives a Jeep. He's like, dude, the worst day of your life is gonna be when your dad dies. And I still don't understand it because it hasn't happened. He's like, that'll be the worst day of your life. And it might cause you to go drink. It might cause you to do some stupid. It might cause you to hurt yourself. It might cause you to think about life a certain way. You might quit your business after your dad dies. You might do something crazy. He's like, that'll be the worst day that you're gonna live. Because your dad is the only man in this world who actually cares about you. You doing better than him. The only person. Every other out there wants to eat you alive, but he's the only person that'll actually care about you. Same thing with your mom.
- [91:51]
A
I understand, though, you know, like, you
- [91:53]
B
got friends who are like, yeah, dude, wish you the best. But, like, let's be real, dude. They want to make more money than your ass does. They want to have a nicer car. They want to have a hotter wife. Your dad don't give a. There's no dick measuring condos with your dad.
- [92:07]
A
No.
- [92:08]
B
So it's like, you know, that's just the way it is.
- [92:11]
A
So just a thought on that. How do you reconcile creating more balance in your life so you do have time for people you love while simultaneously, like, very aggressively pursuing a financial goal? Because those are two conflicting ideas.
- [92:26]
B
Yes, very conflicting. And that's. That's a hard part. And for me, I think it was not having as much friends distracting me. Like, just not having as much socializing around me.
- [92:36]
A
So that's how you balance the two. You're. You're.
- [92:39]
B
When I was making less, I had more friends. But I got invited to too many things. Weddings, weddings, bridal showers. All these things that I felt obligated to go to that were just distracting the out of me. Oh, we're going to Italy. You should come. Can't. Oh, we're not inviting him anymore because he can't go. I don't have more than eight friends. I know all eight on two hands. I don't got more than eight.
- [93:01]
A
Are you happier this way?
- [93:03]
B
Yes, a lot happier than I was before I was make. I was making like, good money. But I was miserable with it. Like, I just. I was just buying dumb shit. I was trying to look cool. Like, no one fucking cares. Like, no one gives a shit. You know? Like, I was. It's funny. I was talking to my friend on the plane, and I was like, hey, dude, I rented a Jeep. I'm going to park. He's like, you only got a Jeep? I'm like, why does it matter? It's a fucking car. Gets me from A to A to Z. I don't need a fucking Mercedes for eight hours. I don't need to get a Bentley for eight hours. What is this thing about me and status and money? Is that all my identity is? Why is that the only question? The question should have been, what podcast are you going on? Be a human. And that's the question is, oh, you only got a Jeep. I'm like, dude, these people.
- [93:53]
A
So what was the point when you realized, like. Or how did you get rid of the people that were not the right people in your life and understand what, like, actual happiness and success was not tied to, like, material wealth?
- [94:05]
B
And when people started assuming that I was buying things, if we did things as a group, who was buying? That was when I started getting really annoyed.
- [94:17]
A
Yeah, that's annoying.
- [94:18]
B
Oh, we should do a boat day. Hey, Wojo, go find one. You mean me? Hey, Wojo, we should do this. Hey, Wojo, we should do that. Because they know I can afford it, and they know who the fuck's paying for it. And I would fold because I didn't want to lose friends. But what's the point in keeping a friend if you're mad at the first impression?
- [94:38]
A
It's interesting because I have friends that have way more money than me, that have sold companies for hundreds of millions of dollars, and I would never in a million years. Like, if we do an event together, we'll go half.
- [94:52]
B
It's better that way. It's cultured.
- [94:54]
A
But that's my personality. My personality is I'm not letting anybody buy my shit. And if you want to go rent a yacht, let's split it. And if I can't afford it, then I don't want it.
- [95:05]
B
And most people think that conversation is weird or awkward. Oh, we bring all friends together who have money. Hey, guys, everyone, here's my Venmo. That's awkward to say no, that's respectful. It's respectful, the right people. But to the culture, it's like, oh, you don't have the money. Now it's a fucking challenge. Now you're challenging me if I have money or not. Not.
- [95:23]
A
I don't like that at all.
- [95:24]
B
It's ridiculous, though. That's how people do it.
- [95:26]
A
But that's. That. That is my litmus test for keeping good friends around.
- [95:29]
B
Yeah.
- [95:30]
A
So if that's. If. If we're doing a thing together, we go to dinner, we split the dinner. That's it. It's just, It's. That's the way it is. And that's like a good friend. And nobody's trying to. Nobody's trying to flex. But also nobody's trying to get like a free lunch either. It's like, that's a normal person in my mind. But I feel like. Yeah, it took a lot of. Took a lot of cutting to get that group.
- [95:50]
B
Yes, it. Yeah. Same thing here. Cutting the out. Yeah.
- [95:53]
A
Last thing I want to ask you, if you could. I mean, you are very young already, so we'll take it back to even a younger Jason Wojo. The most important piece of advice that you've learned over your life that you would tell your younger self or think about, I don't know if you want kids or not at some point in your life, but say you wanted to pass down one piece of wisdom to your kids. Like the most important thing that's been most meaningful to you. What was that?
- [96:19]
B
And why solve problems fast instead of letting it linger? When we just let shit linger and sit, it just hurts us more in the end. Same thing with relationships. If you don't want to be around somebody, just get it over with now. Don't let it linger. Same thing with intimate relationships. Some people are intimate relationships just for intimacy, but they know they have to cut it, but they just let it sit because they're needy and they just want to have sex like these things are. You just let things linger. You make it worse for both parties. It's just. It's just worse. It's terrible.
- [96:53]
A
Cut, shit, move on, make decisions quickly and ironically on the other side of the decision. Life is usually better.
- [96:59]
B
Yes. But it will hurt for a day or two and then you'll get over it. You know, like, it'll suck because you know that you're losing something. And that brings me to the quote to really answer your question is when we say yes to something, we say no to something else. That is the way world will always work. Right? We say yes to not seeing our parents for a holiday. We say no to blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [97:21]
A
You say yes to the wrong person.
- [97:22]
B
Now we say no to the right person. And that's One thing I've always led by Mike. If I say yes to this, what am I saying no to? Is it really that valuable, what I'm saying no to? And no is the most powerful word sometimes, because you have to know when to cut the string. You just have to know when. And people who respect you will eventually like you in the long term, but people who don't respect you will hate you short term.
- [97:48]
A
So having a harder stance on what to say yes to, what to say no to actually ironically filters the good and bad people out of your life.
- [97:54]
B
Less stress on you, because, you know, you wanted to make the decision anyway. You know, you've been thinking about it for a while, and now that you made it, now you get, like, your shoulders don't feel so heavy. You just don't feel so, like, up. You know the feeling you like, you know. You know this shit's all on you, and you got these big shoulders, and your muscles are tensed up, and then you let it go, and you finally get to go, but you lost something in the process. You just got to be okay with loss.