Lessons - How Fear Reshapes Global Economy and Society | John Hagel - Center for the Edge Chairman

Summary

Podcast Summary: Success Story with Scott D. Clary

Episode Title: Lessons - How Fear Reshapes Global Economy and Society
Guest: John Hagel, Chairman, Center for the Edge
Date: October 22, 2025
Episode Theme:
This episode explores the powerful impact of fear on the global economy, business practices, and personal well-being. Host Scott D. Clary and guest John Hagel discuss how mounting pressures in business and society fuel a pervasive state of anxiety, leading to short-term thinking and isolation. The conversation shines a light on actionable strategies for individuals and organizations to transition from a fear-based mindset to one centered on purpose, passion, and supportive communities, drawing from research and insights featured in Hagel’s new book.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nature and Sources of Fear in Modern Life

• Constant Pressure and Anxiety:
  • Hagel explains that modern entrepreneurs, executives, and everyday individuals are beset by fears of failing expectations, losing relevance, and falling short in competitive environments ([00:00]).
    • “As you walk through this, you’re just saying that we constantly just live in a state of fear. Fear of expectation, fear of deliverables, fear of are we fulfilling what we’re supposed to be fulfilling…” — Scott D. Clary ([00:00])
• Economic and Societal Shifts:
  • Hagel identifies long-term global forces escalating fear:
    • Intensifying global competition (corporate and individual)
    • Accelerating technological change impacting job security
    • Increased connectivity causing rapid dissemination of crises (e.g. the pandemic)
    • Media’s focus on negative events, fueling a sense of doom ([01:01]-[02:54])
    • “We’re facing intensifying competition on a global scale.…More and more workers are now worried that their jobs are going to be taken by a robot or by artificial intelligence.” — John Hagel ([01:10])

2. The Short-Term Mindset & Societal Impact

• Shift to Short-Termism:
  • Fear has led businesses and individuals to focus on immediate tasks and short-term goals, rather than long-term strategy:
    • “Business is becoming more and more short-term focused. And in part that’s fear. That’s a natural consequence of fear.” — John Hagel ([03:57])
• Political and Media Narratives:
  • Threat-based messaging dominates both news and politics, exacerbating collective anxiety:
    • “We increasingly live in political environments…focused on what I call threat-based narratives. It’s all about the enemy’s coming to get us…that feeds the fear again.” — John Hagel ([03:25])

3. Root Causes of Institutionalized Fear

• Decades-Long Structural Changes:
  • The rise in expectations and performance pressure can be traced back to the 1960s:
    • Advances in digital technology and connectivity
    • Reduction of trade barriers increasing competition globally
    • Remote work enabling global labor competition ([05:57]-[07:29])
    • “How does it feel to know there are at least 1 million people around the world who can do your job?” — John Hagel recalling a Silicon Valley billboard ([07:14])

4. The Solution: Three Pillars for Moving Beyond Fear

• Awareness Is the Starting Point:
  • Hagel stresses that his book is not the ultimate answer but a starting point for understanding and dealing with fear in modern contexts ([08:15]-[09:17])
• The Three Pillars:
  • Narrative
    • Not to be confused with “story.”
    • Open-ended, focused on a future threat or opportunity, and crucially, it issues a call to action to the listener or participant.
    • “For me, a narrative is very different. First of all, it’s open ended. There is no resolution yet. There’s some kind of big threat or opportunity out in the future, not clear whether it’s going to be achieved or not. And the resolution of the narrative hinges on you. It’s a call to action…Your choices, your actions are going to help determine how this narrative resolves.” — John Hagel ([11:11])
    • Many people don’t realize that their internal “narrative” is primarily fear-driven, leading to isolation and distrust.
  • Passion (Not deeply covered in transcript, mentioned as a pillar)
    • Implied as essential for resilience and engagement.
  • Platform (Not deeply covered in transcript, mentioned as a pillar)
    • Implied as communities or systems that offer support through change and uncertainty.
• Applies to Everyone:
  • “I think the book…has huge business relevance...If [employees] are all driven by fear, good luck. …But the book is relevant, I think, to everyone, whether or not they’re a large company, a small company, or just part of a family.” — John Hagel ([09:21]-[10:41])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s good reason to be afraid.…But as if that weren’t enough, we have a news media that is largely feeding fear.” — John Hagel ([01:47])
• “We need to understand how the world is evolving. The long-term consequences was something that most executives and business people in general don’t really have time to explore.” — John Hagel ([04:50])
• “The way to get workers to work is to tell them if they don’t work harder, they’re going to lose their jobs. Okay, that’s a good motivator.” — John Hagel, reflecting on fear-driven culture ([09:55])
• “In my experience, people who go through this exercise, they come up with this ‘aha moment’ that they actually are focusing on fear and threat in the future and that’s what’s driving their fear.” — John Hagel on identifying personal narratives ([14:00])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:01 — Introduction: Defining fear in personal and professional contexts
• 01:01–03:25 — Sources of mounting fear: Technology, competition, and the global news cycle
• 03:25–05:21 — Political and corporate structures reinforcing fear; overview of Hagel's research methods
• 05:21–07:44 — Origins of heightened expectations and their global consequences
• 07:44–09:17 — Fear-driven work culture; universality of anxiety across organizations and families
• 09:17–11:11 — Introduction to the three pillars for overcoming fear
• 11:11–14:08 — Deep dive: Distinguishing between narratives and stories; personal transformation and the importance of re-evaluating one’s internal narrative

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Key Takeaways

• Fear is both a symptom and a driver of modern economic, social, and personal instability.
• The prevalence of threat-based messaging in media, politics, and corporations entrenches short-term thinking and creates cultures of anxiety.
• Moving from fear to purposeful growth requires introspection, new narratives, passion, and building or joining supportive communities (“platforms”).
• These lessons apply universally—to business leaders, employees, families, and individuals.

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Tone & Language

The episode is conversational, reflective, and supportive, blending research-backed analysis with practical discussion and personal insight.

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For Further Exploration:
For a deeper dive into strategies for transitioning from fear, listeners are encouraged to read John Hagel’s book and explore additional resources on the Success Story Podcast website.

Transcript

[A]

In this lessons episode, explore how fear shapes modern life for entrepreneurs, leaders and individuals alike. Discover why rising competition and constant change fuel anxiety and short term thinking. Understand how shifting from fear to purpose transforms both work and mindset. And uncover how passion and supportive communities drive lasting growth in uncertain times. Can we, can we properly define what living in a state of fear is for an executive, for an entrepreneur, for even somebody outside the realm of a professional environment? Because I feel like as you walk through this, you're just saying that we constantly just live in a state of fear. Fear of expectation, fear of deliverables, fear of are we fulfilling what we're supposed to be fulfilling, doing what we're supposed to be doing. What is the status quo for fear and fear in a professional environment right now?

[B]

Yeah, I think there again, many reasons for fear. But as part of my research, I've looked at the long term forces that are reshaping the global economy and society. And I think the impact of those forces is to create mounting performance pressure on all of us. I mean, at one level, we're facing intensifying competition on a global scale. And it's both at the level of corporations, but also at the level of individuals. I mean, more and more workers are now worried that their jobs are going to be taken by a robot or by artificial intelligence and they're competing for just to maintain their job. So there's intensifying competition, there's accelerating pace of change, things that we thought we could count on are no longer there. And then as if that weren't enough, you've got, because of all this connectivity we've created on a global scale, we've got small events in a faraway place in the world that cascade into extreme disruptive events. Dare I mention pandemic. I think that's just one example of the kinds of extreme events that we'll increasingly see in the world. So when you combine all of that increasing competition, accelerating change, extreme disruptive events, there's good reason to be afraid. And then, by the way, I'll just say that as if that weren't enough, we have a news media that is largely feeding fear. I challenge people and ask them, when was the last time you saw a news story that was good news about something wonderful happening in the world? No, we're all focused on the latest catastrophe or disaster wherever it is in the world. And it's like the sense of the world's collapsing around us. And then just to wrap it up.

[A]

I'll also say, no, no, no, it's all good. Don't feel the need to rush through. I actually was gonna, I was gonna double down and just understand the process of even the research that you did for the book. Cause I think that everything you're saying resonates 100%. I think everybody agrees with it, but many people don't look any deeper than just this is the reality. Right. So even like the finish up what you were just mentioning, but also what's the, what's the process of research for the book? How did you actually start this sort of investigation?

[B]

Yeah. So just the final note on the fear is I believe we increasingly live in political environments around the world where all the politicians, I don't hold one side or the other more or less guilty in this, all sides are increasingly focused on what I call threat based narratives. It's all about the enemy's coming to get us. We need to mobilize now and resist or we're going to die. And that feeds the fear again, oh my God, we're going to die. We're under attack. You know, I'm afraid so, as if the forces themselves weren't enough, we've got the political environment and the news environment that are just feeding this fear on a daily basis. And I think it's again very understandable why more and more people are consumed by this fear. In terms of the research, I mean, this was largely done when I was leading the center for the Edge at Deloitte because our perspective was that to really anticipate opportunities, we had to understand the forces that were shaping the global economy and what the consequences of those forces are. So that was what led us to expand our horizons. I mean, one of the things we find in business is increasingly business is becoming more and more short term focused. And in part that's fear. That's a natural consequence of fear. We don't have the time or willingness to look ahead. We just want to focus on getting the job done at the moment because we're under so much pressure. And so just stepping back and saying no, we need to understand how the world is evolving. The long term consequences was something that most executives and business people in general don't really have time to explore. And our feeling was it's absolutely essential if we're going to really thrive in this changing world is to look ahead.

[A]

So the instigator for more fear is higher expectations. Those higher expectations nobody really thinks through. It's just delivering for shareholders, delivering on bottom line. And then that trickles down into fear in the average individual trying to always achieve more. And More and more, was it, what do you think was the precursor for these added expectations? Was it technology? Was it further propagated by Covid? I'm sure, to some extent. So what was the main instigator for this?

[B]

No, no. Well, this again goes back many decades. I mean, the big shift as we began to understand it. Our belief is it actually started back in the 1960s. And I think even though it's been decades, we're still in the early stages of this big shift. And part of it is, an important part, is this notion of digital technology and the way it's changing business at a fundamental level, all the connectivity that it's creating, the accelerating change. Another force that's been playing out unevenly, but over time it's been pretty significant, is the reduction of trade barriers around the world. So again, you have less political barriers to trade and competition increases across the world and the intersection too. I mean, because of all these changes, now you can hire somebody in Africa to do work in the United States. So competition for jobs is not just within your local community, it's around the world. One of my favorite billboards, there was a billboard in Silicon Valley many years ago which said, how does it feel to know there are at least 1 million people around the world who can do your job?

[A]

Oh, my God, it feels horrible. It's a good feeling, you know, and.

[B]

A few decades ago, it would have been an absurd question. I mean, that doesn't matter. I'm here, There. There doesn't matter. Well, guess what? Now it matters. It's real. Wherever they are, they can compete for your job.

[A]

So, yeah, so, all right, so that's the, that's the instigator. So let's, let's speak about, let's speak about the solutions. Obviously, it's sort of just been getting worse and worse and worse over the years. Again, as, as globalization and technology and barriers are broken down, like you said, all these things contribute to fear. Our expectations are higher. How do we, how do we fix it? What's the, what's the solution? Which is obviously not an easy one. Right, right.

[B]

No, for sure. And again, it was the motivation to write the book. And I want to start by saying that I don't think the book itself is the solution. I think it's the start to build awareness of the potential for a journey and some of the elements on it. But, you know, I ended up. And this was again, the result of a lot of research as well as my own lessons along my personal journey. But I've come To believe there are three pillars. I call them pillars that can be very helpful in the journey. And one is what I call a narrative. The second is passion, and third is platform. And the challenge for me is I have very different definitions of each of those terms. I mean, most people have attached very different meanings to narrative, passion, platform. So part of the book is just explaining why I have a different meaning to it and why I think it's so critical in terms of helping us in the. In that journey beyond fear.

[A]

But who are these lessons for? These for CEOs or are these for individuals?

[B]

They're for everyone. I think the book, you know, most of my books have been business books, and certainly I think this has huge business relevance. I think, again, one of the key issues in terms of performing well in a rapidly changing world is making the journey beyond fear, both as the CEO and as the employees within your company. If they're all driven by fear, good luck.

[A]

Which is a status quo in some organizations, which is not good. But that's reality, right?

[B]

No, I think it's the status quo in most, if not all, organizations today. Certainly large organizations around the world, I think, are very much driven by a culture of fear. The way to get workers to work is to tell them if they don't work harder, they're going to lose their jobs. Okay, that's a good motivator. So anyway, I think that that's. But the book is relevant, I think, to everyone, whether or not they're a large company, a small company, or just part of a family. I mean, in the family, you've got huge issues around fear of your parents, fear of your children, fear of yourself. There's a lot of fear around.

[A]

So let's. Can we, at a high level, break down those three pillars so people can dive a little bit deeper? Because then this will queue it up. They want to go real deep and get the book, but I want to bring out a couple like tactical takeaways for people that are listening. So you said narratives, passion, and then platforms. So first one, narratives are not stories. What does that mean? So just context. Somebody hearing that, they're not gonna understand. What do you mean narratives are not stories? How does this have any impact on whether I'm gonna lose my job?

[B]

Well, most people, again, view narratives and stories to be the same thing. They're synonymous. You know, you can use either word. I make a big distinction between them. And for me, a story is self contained. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end to it. The end, the story's over. And the story is about me, the storyteller, or it's about some other people, real or imagined, but it's not about you. You can use your imagination, figure out what you would have done in that story, but it's not about you. So that's a story, at least the way I talk about it. For me, a narrative is very different. First of all, it's open ended. There is no resolution yet. There's some kind of big threat or opportunity out in the future, not clear whether it's going to be achieved or not. And the resolution of the narrative hinges on you. It's a call to action to say your choices, your actions are going to help determine how this narrative resolves. So it's that call to action and I think tying it back to fear. And I talk about narratives at many levels, so I think there's personal narratives, I think there are corporate narratives, geographic narratives, movement narratives, but starting with the individual. I believe most of us, first of all, we've never really stepped back to articulate what's the narrative that's driving our life, what's our view of the future? Is it primarily driven by threat? Are primarily driven by opportunity? And if so, what threat or what opportunity? And then what's our call to action to others? You know, do we have a call to action to others? Because in my experience, many of us who are increasingly consumed by fear because we're focusing on threat in the future, we lose trust in other people. We can't afford to rely on other people. We have to do it all ourselves. So there is no call to action to others. We become increasingly isolated versus no, I want people to come together and help me to address this really big exciting opportunity that's out in the future. And so I think the process of just stepping back and articulating that narrative that we have today, what is it that's driving our actions and choices today? But then reflecting on it to say, is this really the narrative that's going to help me to get the most impact that's meaningful to me? It can be very powerful. I view it as a catalyst in the journey beyond fear. Because in my experience, people who go through this exercise, they come up with this haha moment that they actually are focusing on fear and threat in the future and that's what's driving their fear.

[C]

Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out the links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.