Clary (4:21)

That it makes sense?

Derek (4:22)

I heard you mention transformation, which is important, but what does that actually mean to somebody who's trying to build something?

Clay (4:28)

So the unique position that we're in with our clients is we're talking like we're helping world class experts. Like these are practitioners and doctors who can save someone's life. We're not just like, I just got certified last weekend, I lift some weights and I'm going to bring some clients on. Like that's, we're talking about people who are world class. And the challenge with our clients is that they actually devalue their own value because they're so close to it. And I'm like, hey guys, remember like there in my eyes, there's no other profession that is more important than like if someone's had debilitating migraines for 20 years, if they've been up and down on the weight roller coaster for 10 years and they feel like shit every time they look in the mirror, and you can come along and help them eradicate that problem, is that not worth 2, 3, 4, $5,000? Like, well, I feel, I mean, like, I want to make health accessible for everyone. Well, good, come to Canada and see how that works. It doesn't work, right? When people don't pay, they don't pay attention. And if you want to make healthcare accessible for everyone, my take is fill up your cup first with those who are willing to meet you at that level and then give everything else away for free. And you can do that. You know, whether it's like, for me, I'd say we have our high, you know, hard ticket coaching and then everything else I give away for free on YouTube. And you know, if you want to donate to charity, you can't donate to charity if you have no money. So that's the context. Like you have to be an expert at solving a significant problem for someone. So if it's, and again, it's not just, you don't just have to be a health professional. Obviously you can be into business or finances or accounting or anything where someone has a bleeding neck problem or a very, very strong desire. And obviously if you go upstream, up market, where you're dealing with business owners or people in whatever neck of the woods they're in that are a little bit more sophisticated, then it's generally a little bit easier than working with absolute beginners. Right? Like if you're working at beginners in any market, it's going to be a bit challenging to, you know, go premium price. So the most important thing is to recognize, okay, where, where's the problem? Where's the bleeding neck problem that I can solve, and then understanding that it doesn't even matter what people charge. Like, if you have competitors, which you probably will in any market, who cares what they charge? I would be looking at like obsessing about your clients instead of the competition. And at the end of the day, pricing in my eyes is a hundred percent arbitrary. There's really no formula to saying, you know, it should be 5,500 instead of 5,000. No, it's just like, where do you have the most conviction? And the way I look at this is like, as long as the Value you're helping someone or you're given to someone, and more specifically, the outcome you're helping them achieve is perceived or true in terms of its value relative to price, then you can price it wherever you feel comfortable. So if someone's able to save someone from 20 years of migraines, like, how do you even put a price tag on that?

Derek (7:25)

Yeah, that's, understand what you're saying, but.

Clary (7:27)

I pay anything for that.

Clay (7:29)

Yeah, but also, like with health, well, if you've got migraines, is that, is, that is like, if you're working somewhere, is that a liability or an asset? Oh, you can't show up to work every other day. Do you think, well, what would happen if you lost your $80,000 a year job? Now we have an $80,000 a year problem, not just the $5,000 solution. So a lot of this is being able to have the conversation to show people the context of the gravity of their situation. And that could be a health thing. It could be, you know, whether you're a contractor or like, it doesn't matter what it is. It's about being able to articulate the problem someone's experiencing. They have to be in enough pain to want to change. And then your solution needs to fundamentally solve the problem once and for all. And if you can do that, then you, I mean, there's no reason you shouldn't command premium prices because in my experience, you always get what you pay for in life. Yeah, right. The only exception to that I've personally noticed is wine. I don't really drink, but I've also had 900 bottles of wine that were not as good as a $20 bottle.

Derek (8:33)

So, I mean, but wine is not healthcare. Wine is not solving. Wine is not solving, you know, financial problems in your business. Wine is not solving the fact that my customer pipeline is driving up, drying up.

Clary (8:49)

Excuse me.

Derek (8:49)

And I'm, you know, my, my revenue is declining year over year and I have no idea what to do about the only way I support my family. So I think that, yes, I think that bleeding neck problems are a little bit different. And I think that you do get what you pay for. Um, I, I, I want to understand one other piece of how you position this, because when you sell a high.

Clary (9:12)

Ticket product or a high ticket item.

Derek (9:15)

That'S solving his bleeding neck problem. The perception from the customer is, my problem is so unique to me. And I need personalized care, I need personalized triage to fix this thing. Whether or not it's a migraine or the fact that I'm getting audited by the irs. I need someone to come in and like hold my hand and solve this. Which, that's great. That's what, that's what will allow them to spend the 5, $10,000. But you mentioned something before. You mentioned like group coaching is very effective because it's one person teaching 5, 10, 20 people. Obviously that hours of that, of the.

Clary (9:55)

Of the, of the, you know, the.

Derek (9:57)

The coaches, consultants, service providers time is now worth exponentially more because they can do it in this group coaching session which allows them to scale. So how do you. There's two different idea. There's two different ideas here. There's two different points of view. On one end you have the customer who wants to spend 5, $10,000 for personalized care. On the other end, the service provider wants to scale and bring 20 people onto a call at once. How do you reconcile these two ideas so that you can build a business around it? Because even, even if you do $5,000 an hour, there's still a point where that doesn't scale. You only have so many hours in a day and we're all optimizing for freedom. So you do need to have this group coaching environment to really get a significant return on these types of, you know, these type significant return on your expertise. But that runs conflict to what the.

Clary (10:44)

People are trying to accomplish.

Scott (10:46)

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Clary (11:58)

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Clay (14:18)

Clay yeah, so it's a great question and I'll address this in two ways. One is contextualizing the value and second is understanding. Like a lot of times we're not even aware of what we're not aware of. So a lot of people think that one on one is better because they're going to have more personalized attention. But the Example I like to give is like if I, if I had a magic button that I could press on your forehead and it would get you to the outcome you want, or we could have a one hour conversation once a week over the next couple weeks to eventually get you there. Which one you would you prefer? And most people would say the magic button. It's like, cool. Well, I don't have that magical power, but what it tells me is you're more interested in the outcome than how we get you there. It's like, huh, okay, so is there any now again, if you have a track record and know what you're doing and it's like, well, is there any reason to believe that with our proven process you would not be able to get where you want to go with this type of setup? So part of that is recontextualizing the value. And if someone is still like hell bent on I'm a special snowflake, then you can certainly add office hours into a group type of program. So let's say you have your group coaching and it's like 1 to 10, 1 to 20, whatever it is, you can still offer office hours. What office hours are like, let's say you take a two hour time block on a Friday from 1 to 3pm, you chunk it down as a 20 minute time slots and you give people the option to book in on those specific times. So now it's on your terms, not just some random one hour conversation here and there. And I did this when I started and I realized that all these one on one conversations were the same conversations I was having in our group calls. I'm like, I don't need to have these conversations anymore. And the other component to this is that it's not just like the leverage that you get as the coach or the business owner. More importantly, it's the leverage that is created by having this community of people who support each other and what you'll find. And this is what we have found. We actually have clients from around the world and they organize meetups in their local towns, like, hey, who's in Vancouver, who's in Boulder? And they'll get together in these co working spaces and have these meetups. I'm like, this is beautiful. Like people are starving for community. And so there's this, this, this whole piece that a lot of people don't even recognize until they're in it. And they're like, this is probably the most valuable piece. Like they'll come for the content or the system, but they'll stay for the community. So that's the first thing in terms of recontextualizing the value. The second way, just from a positioning perspective, is if you want to, if you want to position your group as more interesting, more valuable, or as the more ideal thing to, for someone to purchase, just price your one on one out of, like out of the universe. So for me, I'm like, if someone wants to work with me one on one, it's 160 grand for six months. You get one call a month and you have to be doing, you have to be doing a million dollars or more already. Yeah, but why would you do that when you would get more access to me and up to 40 coaching calls a week with my entire team of world class experts for pennies on the dollar? Like, you don't need this, just do this instead. It's like, well, okay, so now I've price anchored this. I'm just trying to push people away from even considering that. And now this seems like a much better, not just price point, but there's more value, there's actually more personalized support. There's more of this over here. And so that's one of the things I strongly recommend people consider if they're wanting to minimize their one on one is just price it at a level where if someone gave you that money, be like, cool, I'll take it.

Derek (17:48)

Yeah, I'll do it. But yeah, thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out the links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.

Scott (18:13)

The HubSpot Podcast Network is a Success story partner now. If you like Success Story, you're going to love other podcasts in the HubSpot Podcast Network. One of my personal favorites is I Digress, hosted by my boy Troy Sandich. With shows under 30 minutes, I digress helps eliminate complexity, complications and confusion in your business with frameworks and strategies to achieve true, scalable and sustainable success. If you are an entrepreneur building anything you need to listen to I Digress. This is one of the most useful business podcasts you're ever going to subscribe to. Listen to. I Digress. Wherever you get your podcasts.