← Success Story with Scott D. Clary
Success Story with Scott D. Clary
Lessons - How to Win Against Toxic People | Rebecca Zung - High-Conflict Negotiation Expert
00:16:35
Loading summary
Transcript15 lines
- [00:00]
A
In this Lessons episode, explore how to negotiate effectively with narcissistic personalities when traditional tactics fail. Discover why mindset and preparation determine leverage before any conversation begins. Understand how strategy and anticipation prevent manipulation and prolonged conflict. And uncover practical methods for protecting outcomes while ethically countering aggressive behavior. So what, what do you do when you're negotiating with a narcissist? How do you get the best possible outcome? Just like from the ground up, starting from scratch. How do you approach that person? Because I'm sure that negotiation, it, it's a lot more than just the actual conversation. I'm sure there's steps to it too.
- [00:47]
B
Yeah, so slay is my methodology and slay stands for strategy, leverage, anticipating and focusing. And you have to work through all of those steps or you're not going to get anywhere. And you know, I just literally was doing a one on one with a client like a week ago and she first started off with, well, I don't want to be aggressive. And I thought, well, I mean, I literally said right to her, well then you totally going to be taken advantage of, you know, because when you're dealing with a narcissist, the very first thing is that, you know, they, they going back to what I said at the very beginning of this. You have to understand the concept of narcissistic supply. It all goes back to that concept of narcissistic supply. Everything revolves around understanding that they're in this world of survival, this world of that. And so you have to, you can't listen to a regular class on negotiation that you're dealing with two normal people and everybody is going to, you know, come out with some fair outcome. That's not who you're dealing with. When you're dealing with a narcissist, you're dealing with the person who literally is in this world of survival. So you have to understand that, you know, that this person is going to need to feel like they, they're, that they're going to have to survive in order to, to have some sort of outcome with this thing. And so you have to have a strategy around that, number one. And number two, you have to understand that you are dealing with a person who is in survival mode. So they are going to be aggressive against you. I mean, you know, so you can't go, well, I don't want to be aggressive because they are going to be aggressive. They're going to be. And so you have to have an understanding about all of that. So, um, you know, you start off by going, okay, you know, first of all when you're dealing with the narcissist, it's there. You're either for them or against them. And when they realize that you're no longer for them, that means you're against them. You can't just go, okay, hey listen, this isn't working out. Let's just nicely come to a resolution. Let's just. I try to do that myself by the way. When I was dealing with one in a business situation, I was like, we're going to go in different directions. And you know, let's just come to a nice conclusion here. And it doesn't, they don't, their mind does not work that way. You're either for them or against them. And if you're against them, then you're public enemy number one. And that means that they have to start lining up all their flying monkeys and they've got to have their army on their side and it's got to be against you. And you know, like this is how they think and they've got to take you down before they're going to take, you're going to take them down. And um, so all of that's going to start happening right away. And you're just, if you think, oh, it's all going to be nicey nice, you're just like naked over there because, and by the way, if you, if you start off with giving all kinds of stuff early on and they're going to see how nice you are because you gave up all this stuff stuff at the beginning, they don't care. They'll just take all of that and that just is in the wind. It's taken and gone. So don't give up a whole bunch of stuff at the beginning that's like.
- [05:37]
A
Just let, don't assume you're going to win them over. Don't assume that's going to gain you any favor. It's not, it's just, it's naive. So if you've identified this person, you gotta, you gotta get your mind right. So you got to go into the situation. It, it will be combative, I guess. Situation. It's like it isn't us versus them, you know, you versus them, which is unfortunate, but it's not like the normal person you mentioned before. It's okay. Okay, so you have your mindset proper. What's, what's the next step in, in this negotiation? Elay is a success story, partner. Now are you spinning your wheels on low value tasks? Do you spend more time putting out fires and planning your long term goals as Your business grew, you brought on more people and booked more meetings. But focus became even harder to find. Here's the truth. Business leaders shouldn't lose hours to emails, scheduling, project tracking and avoidable interruptions. Just because it all has to get done doesn't mean it needs to be done by you. That's where our friends at Belay can help. Belay's US based remote executive assistants don't just take work off your plate. They learn how you operate, what slows you down, and where things tend to go sideways. Then they get ahead of it. So if you're looking for a practical tool to help you start leading with clearer purpose, download Belay CEO Tricia Shortino's free resource, the 40 Hour CEO Workweek Planning Guide. Just text the word Scott to 55123 for your free copy today. That is S C O T T to 55123 to start accomplishing more while juggling less with Belay. Monarch Money is a success story. Partner now. You know, it's weird. I'm doing well financially, but I have this constant low level financial anxiety that I was missing something. Because I have crypto on all these different exchanges. I have multiple Investment accounts, old 401ks, savings scattered everywhere. See, I knew the pieces were fine, but I had no idea if the whole picture made sense. I finally got Monarch Money to pull everything into one view. And the first thing I noticed, I had $10,000 sitting in a temporary stock savings account from eight months ago when I sold some stock. That's eight months, $10,000. It could have been working instead of just waiting for me to remember it existed. Also, it showed me that I was spending tons monthly on all these subscription services that I couldn't even remember I signed up for every Sunday morning. It takes me five minutes to check everything. All my financial stuff in one place. No more wondering, no more anxiety. The Wall Street Journal just named it the best budgeting app of 2025. But honestly, it's more about finally having control. So don't let financial opportunity the cracks. Use code success monarch money.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarch money.com with code success.
- [08:26]
B
So you create a strategy and the first thing you have to do is have like a vision as to where you want to go. And so many times people are like, all they're focusing on is the other person's bad behavior. Look what they did. Look what they did. And they did that and they did this and they did this, and they did that. And, and I want people to understand that that is just a defense. Defense, defense, defense, defense. And I always say the best football teams, if all you have is a good defense, no one's scoring any points, you have to have a good offense as well. So figure out where it is that you want to go. What's your outcome? So, okay, where's your vision? And then create steps on how you're going to get there. That's your strategy. All right, so vision steps on how you're going to get there. So that's your strategy. Next is leverage. What is your leverage? Leverage is kind of two parts. First of all, what is the diamond source of supply that is really, really matters to this narcissist? What is the thing that they, you know, what matters most to them as far as how they look? Okay, because for every narcissist, there's this thing that matters the most to them as far as how they look, how they're perceived.
- [10:00]
A
Like, like physically, like physical or just how they're perceived.
- [10:03]
B
No, like who, you know, is it their new source of supply? Is it their employees? Is it their, you know, what, what world do they live in that they don't want to be exposed to? You know, is it, you know, for example, I had a guy that I represented who was a CEO of a Fortune 10 company and he had.
- [10:39]
A
Been.
- [10:39]
B
Married a long time. He had a pension for, you know, hiring very high end escorts. He ended up getting herpes. He ended up giving it to his, his wife. She didn't even know that he had been ever cheating, ever, until she ended up going to the OB GYN because she had, she didn't know why. She was like developing sores and all of a sudden here she has herpes. How did I get herpes when I've never cheated on my husband? And so now all of a sudden, you know, she's got this major leverage against him. Because by the way, I can tell the world that, you know, look at what you did, that's a huge source of leverage. Like, she does not, he did not want the world to know about that. Right? So that's something that she could potentially, you know, have filed a civil battery action against him. I mean, she could have filed something in the courts, you know, that said, hey, I want, you know, extra damages for pain and suffering. I want, you know, these are things that he could have potentially been exposed about, right? And instead of doing that, she said, hey, I could do this, but instead of doing this, I want you to just Pay me, you know, this amount of money and, you know, we'll do this quietly. And, and so that was a way that she could kind of use her leverage against the diamond level supply. You understand what I mean by that?
- [12:42]
A
I do. It's, it's, it's an uncomfortable thought because it's so aggressive. Right. Like it's uncomfortable to think about having to find that piece of leverage against somebody because for most people, no one goes out of their way to try and hurt somebody like at that level. Right. Like that's, like, that's incredible exposure. So you're saying that this is what you mean when you say mindset and you say be prepared to be aggressive. You're not negotiating with normal people. So you have to come, you know, come to the table with extra ammo.
- [13:15]
B
Well, I call it ethically manipulating the manipulator. You have to look to see what is a source of supply that's going to be more important for them to keep, protect or maintain. That is going to be, you know, more important for them to protect than the supply that they get from jerking you around. Yeah, because that coal level supply, which is jerking you around, they're going to want to keep that too. And that's why those cases never settle because they also enjoy jerking you around. And they, you know, so part of the jerking you around process is constantly moving the goalposts, using the court system as a sword, not giving you the documents, filing unnecessarily unnecessary pleadings, you know, so they, they drag you through the, the mud in the court system because they get supply from doing that. And so as long as they can continuously get supply from manipulating you in the court system, they will do that. And that's a source of coal level supply for them. And so if you don't want those cases to last three, four and five years, and you spend two, three, four, $100,000 in attorneys fees, the only way you're going to be able to put an end to that is to find a source of diamond level.
- [14:57]
A
Move it. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Next one is anticipating. So in the slave formula, you're talking about anticipating. Anticipating what exactly? Because it seems like with leverage, you're already anticipating that they're going to act a certain way. So what else could you be anticipating in that particular negotiation?
- [15:21]
B
Well, I mean, you're anticipating throughout the entire case, right? So you know, anticipating how they're going to behave, anticipating what they're going to be doing. You know, you, you, you want to be two steps ahead of them. Throughout the entire case. And, and, and, you know, part of that also is going to be.
- [15:46]
A
You.
- [15:47]
B
Know, using understanding how they think and their mindset. You know, sometimes I tell people to use something that I call bartering, which is, you know, understanding that they need a certain amount of adulation. So if you want to get them to do something for you, go ahead and give them a certain amount of adulation. Hey, you know, can you, you know, you know, if it's a business situation, you know, in. Can you work on the QuickBooks today? You're so much better at it than I am. You're way faster at the program. You know the program so much better than I do. It'll be done so much more efficiently if you do it than if I do it. You know, something like that. You know, if you want them to do something for you, be prepared to give them some adulation in return. You know, use it to your advantage sometimes.
- [16:59]
A
Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out the links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.