Lessons - How Your Gut Health Determines Your Life Span | Dr. Steven Gundry - Renowned Heart Surgeon

Summary

Success Story Podcast: Lessons - How Your Gut Health Determines Your Life Span | Dr. Steven Gundry

Host: Scott D. Clary
Guest: Dr. Steven Gundry, Renowned Heart Surgeon
Release Date: June 24, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of the Success Story Podcast, hosted by Scott D. Clary, Dr. Steven Gundry delves into the critical role gut health plays in determining our overall lifespan. The discussion unpacks the intricate relationship between the gut microbiome and various aspects of our health, challenging long-held beliefs and presenting groundbreaking insights from recent scientific research.

The Gut as a Second Brain

Dr. Gundry begins by redefining our understanding of the gut, highlighting its complexity and its profound connection to the brain.

“We discovered that there are actually more neurons in the gut surrounding it than in the spinal cord. That's why we refer to it as the second brain.” ([01:56])

Historical Misconceptions

He reflects on past medical assumptions, where the gut was merely seen as a digestive tube, devoid of significant neural activity. This limited perspective hindered early research into the microbiome.

“Back when we were in medical school, we thought the gut was just a hollow tube. We swallowed things, magic happened, and that was the extent of our knowledge.” ([01:56])

Advances in Microbiome Research

The advent of the Human Microbiome Project revolutionized our understanding by utilizing genetic sequencing to identify the vast diversity of gut bacteria, previously undetectable by traditional culturing methods.

“With the genetic code cracked, we found 10,000 different genetic signatures instead of the hundred we previously thought.” ([03:10])

Dr. Gundry emphasizes the discovery of specific bacteria, such as Akkermansia mucinophila, which plays a crucial role in maintaining gut integrity. The ability to culture previously elusive bacteria has opened new avenues for understanding and manipulating the microbiome.

Gut Health and Chronic Diseases

The conversation shifts to the profound impact of gut health on various chronic diseases, debunking several established theories.

Rethinking Heart Disease

Dr. Gundry challenges the cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease, citing Michael DeBakey's assertion that cholesterol is an "innocent bystander."

“Inflammation in the lining of the blood vessels is the actual cause of heart disease. Cholesterol just tries to cover up what's happening.” ([06:24])

He explains that chronic inflammation, originating from the gut, is the true culprit behind heart disease, as well as other conditions such as dementia and Parkinson's.

Leaky Gut and Systemic Inflammation

Addressing the concept of "leaky gut," Dr. Gundry recounts its historical dismissal as pseudoscience. However, recent research, led by experts like Dr. Alessio Fazano, has validated its existence and impact.

“Thirty years ago, I would have called leaky gut pseudoscience. Now, we can prove it exists and measure it.” ([05:00])

This leaky barrier allows inflammatory agents to enter the bloodstream, triggering systemic inflammation and affecting various organs, including the brain. This process is linked to neurological conditions like brain fog, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's.

The Modern Epidemic: Destroying the Gut Microbiome

Dr. Gundry outlines how modern practices have devastated the gut microbiome, leading to widespread health issues.

The Impact of Antibiotics

The introduction of broad-spectrum antibiotics decimated not only harmful bacteria but also essential gut microbes.

“We had an AK47 set on antibiotics, mowing down every living bacteria known and unknown.” ([09:00])

Glyphosate as an Antibiotic

The use of glyphosate, a common herbicide, is revealed to have antibiotic properties that specifically target beneficial gut bacteria responsible for producing serotonin and GABA, key neurotransmitters for mood regulation.

“Glyphosate targets the bacteria in our gut that make the feel-good hormones like serotonin and GABA. We thought neurons did that, but it's actually our gut bacteria.” ([12:30])

This unintended consequence contributes significantly to the rising rates of anxiety and depression.

Lessons from Ancient Cultures

Drawing parallels with ancient cultures, Dr. Gundry highlights how traditional diets and lifestyles maintained a robust and diverse microbiome, protecting against modern diseases.

The Katavans of Papua New Guinea

He cites the Katavans, an islander group with high smoking rates yet no incidence of coronary artery disease, stroke, or cancer, attributing their health to a pristine gut microbiome.

“The Katavans had a perfectly intact gut wall and an antioxidant-rich diet that protected them from the harms of smoking.” ([13:45])

The Blue Zones

Similarly, the Blue Zones—areas with high longevity rates—maintain diverse and resilient gut microbiomes, underscoring the importance of gut health in overall well-being.

Rebuilding the Gut Microbiome

Dr. Gundry provides actionable strategies for restoring gut health, emphasizing the importance of diet, lifestyle, and targeted supplementation.

Diet and Nutrition

A diet rich in diverse, plant-based foods supports a thriving microbiome. He advocates for ancient dietary practices that promote gut health, such as consuming fermented foods and avoiding processed additives.

Reducing Antibiotic and Glyphosate Exposure

Minimizing the use of antibiotics and avoiding glyphosate-laden products can help preserve beneficial gut bacteria. He suggests using natural alternatives for pest control and advocating for agricultural practices that protect the microbiome.

Supplementation

Targeted probiotics and prebiotics can aid in rebuilding the gut microbiome. Dr. Gundry emphasizes the importance of specific strains that address individual health needs.

Conclusion: Death Begins in the Gut

Dr. Gundry concludes with a powerful assertion that the root cause of many chronic diseases lies within the gut. By focusing on gut health, individuals can prevent and even reverse a multitude of health issues, ultimately extending their lifespan.

“All disease begins in the gut, and all disease can be reversed from the gut.” ([10:00])

Key Takeaways

1. Gut as a Second Brain: The gut possesses a complex neural network that significantly influences overall health.
2. Chronic Inflammation: Originates from gut health, challenging traditional disease models like the cholesterol hypothesis.
3. Microbiome Diversity: A diverse and robust microbiome is crucial for preventing chronic diseases.
4. Modern Threats: Antibiotics and glyphosate have severely compromised gut health, contributing to mental health crises.
5. Ancient Practices: Traditional diets and lifestyles offer valuable lessons for maintaining a healthy microbiome.
6. Rebuilding Strategies: Diet, reduced exposure to harmful substances, and targeted supplementation are essential for restoring gut health.

Notable Quotes

• “We discovered that there are actually more neurons in the gut surrounding it than in the spinal cord. That's why we refer to it as the second brain.” — Dr. Steven Gundry ([01:56])
• “Inflammation in the lining of the blood vessels is the actual cause of heart disease. Cholesterol just tries to cover up what's happening.” — Dr. Steven Gundry ([06:24])
• “Glyphosate targets the bacteria in our gut that make the feel-good hormones like serotonin and GABA. We thought neurons did that, but it's actually our gut bacteria.” — Dr. Steven Gundry ([12:30])
• “All disease begins in the gut, and all disease can be reversed from the gut.” — Dr. Steven Gundry ([10:00])

Final Thoughts

This episode of the Success Story Podcast provides a compelling exploration of the pivotal role gut health plays in our overall well-being and longevity. Dr. Steven Gundry's insights challenge conventional medical wisdom and offer a transformative perspective on preventing and reversing chronic diseases through gut health. Listeners are encouraged to reassess their dietary and lifestyle choices to nurture their gut microbiome, paving the way for a healthier and longer life.

For more in-depth discussions and actionable strategies, visit www.successstorypodcast.com.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I think one of the huge pieces of this was for instance, I had the former head of the FDA on my podcast a few years ago and we were, and we were same age and we were chuckling that back when we were in medical school, we thought the gut was this hollow tube and we swallowed things and magic happened and what you know, and we absorb things and then whatever we didn't need was pooped out the rear end. And that was about all we knew. And then we discovered that there were actually more nerves neurons in the gut surrounding the gut than there were in the spinal cord. So the, the word second brain came about. And then we began to realize that, oh my gosh, we didn't know these bugs existed because the only way we could identify these bacteria was either look at them under the microscope and they all look kind of similar or we try to grow them. And most of these bacteria wouldn't grow. We didn't have the techniques. So with the human microbiome project, once the genetic code was cracked, you could use computers to look at the genetic code of microbes. And the genetic code of microbes is different from every microbe. And then look at stool. And rather than trying to culture bacteria, trying to look for bacteria, all you could, all you need to do is look for their genetic signature. And when they did that, lo and behold, there's 10,000 different genetic signatures that we thought, oh, maybe there's a hundred or so. And you know, and there's, there's a trillion, a hundred trillion of these guys living in us. And then it gets even better. Each of these different species have, you know, different subclasses and geniuses. And like just last week, there's a really cool bug that I write about that's a very important bacteria called Akkermansia mucinophila, Mucus loving Akkermansia. And it's really important and we get into that if you want to, but it took researchers 10 years to actually grow this bug. You couldn't grow it and now it's done. But now we know that there is a cousin of Akkerman seal, not Mucinophila, another guy who's probably even more important. And we didn't even know he existed because we didn't know that little signature difference. So now everybody's excited, oh my gosh, now we gotta grow this guy. So the, the other thing is, if you had asked me 30 years ago what I thought about leaky gut, I would have told you it was pseudoscience. It was woo woo. And thanks to people like Dr. Alessio Fazano, who's a pediatric gastroenterologist now at Harvard, who literally broke the code to find out, you know, could you. Does leaky gut exist? I guarantee you that exists. He proved it. We can prove it. We can measure it. So all of this kind of pseudo stuff, how Hippocrates knew this, I don't know. And that's what I'm trying to figure out. But the longer I do this and the more science we apply to this, the more it's like son of the gun. You know, there is this brown life force energy that was, it was these guys.

[A]

Incredible. That's incredible. So then, so what does this disprove? Because obviously second brain means that it's controlling and influencing almost every part of our body to a degree. But what are the major things that it's disproving that we thought and held true before we had this research.

[B]

Okay, that's a, that's an excellent question. I for one, there was a heart surgeon, a cardiologist, thought the cholesterol theory of heart disease was a pretty good theory. It turns out it's a horrible theory. Michael Debakey, one of the fathers of heart surgery, said cholesterol has nothing to do with heart disease. It's an innocent bystander. And you go, huh? So inflammation in the lining of the blood vessel is actually the cause of heart disease. And cholesterol just happens to be a spackling compound that tries to cover up what's going on on the blood vessel. We could get back to big Ed, but for the purpose of how he did it, because I've written about how he did it. Inflammation, all inflammation comes from the gut. People go, well, if I eat anti inflammatory foods, I'll stop inflammation. And since there are wildfires in California nearby me right now, I can assure you that fighting inflammation with anti inflammatory food is like putting out a forest fire with a garden hose. And we, we learn repeatedly, you can't do that. So you have to find the source of the inflammation. And all disease begins in the gut and the inflammation is coming from the fat. That the lining of our gut is, it's got a design flaw. And that design flaw is the lining of our God is about one to two tennis courts in surface area inside earth. And it give me. It only has one cell thick. Everything you swallow is separated from the rest of you by only one cell. Now those cells, this is one cell. Those cells are held together by a glue that's called a tight junction. Are you old enough to have played Red Rover? Red Rover? Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The reason I have to ask now is it's illegal, actually. Play red. Yeah. Schools ban it.

[A]

Why?

[B]

You cannot play. It's too dangerous. Of course. So these cells are bound together. They're locked arm and arm, you know, like ribbon over. And so everything you swallow is here, all the bacteria are here, and there's only one cell between standing between everything you swallow, all the bacteria and us. Now, on the other side of this wall, 80% of all your white blood cells are there. Why? Why are they there? Because this is where trouble could come across. Now, trouble can come across. There's no question that trouble comes across, but it's usually a small incursion. And then the guys put out the incursion and that's the end of it. But what has been shown over and over and over again now is that this incursion goes on every day, every night, and that there is a chronic incursion across the wall of the gut and the immune system not only is doing battle at the wall of the gut, but the immune system literally sends out warnings in the form of hormones called cytokines that, among other things, go up to your other organs, go up to your brain and says, oh, my gosh, we're under a massive attack. Take cover or prepare the defenses. Or we have a set of immune cells in our brain that are called microglia that are kind of the bodyguards of the neurons. They're that important. And when these bodyguards get alerted that mischief is on the way up, they actually take action to try and protect the neurons. And they do it in a bad way. They actually make neurons stop talking to other neurons to protect themselves. That's where brain fog comes from. We now know that Parkinson's comes from the gut, dementia comes from the gut, Alzheimer's comes from the gut. And getting back to the original question, heart disease comes from the gut. And better way of saying is, death begins in the gut. But the good news is all disease comes from the gut, and thankfully, all disease can be reversed from the gut.

[A]

So that would be the question that everybody wants answered. So what do you start to do to make sure that your gut, your microbiome, is working properly so that you don't have all these diseases?

[B]

Well, nobody used to have these. One of the things that's been fun, looking at ancient cultures or the cultures that don't have these diseases, Believe it or not, there are cultures that have no heart disease. Just as an example, there's a group of islanders in Papua New guinea called the Katavans that a Danish researcher, Stefan Lindberg, spent his life studying. These were a group of islanders who smoked like fiends, and they had no coronary artery disease, no stroke, and no cancer. And he spent his life trying to figure, well, how can that be? And it turns out that they, because of what they ate, had a perfect microbiome, had a perfectly intact wall of their gut. And, yeah, smoking's bad for you. And people accuse me of telling people that smoking's good for you. Well, it turns out that four of the five blue zones are heavy smokers. So maybe we ought to be interested in why it wasn't killing and might have been helping them, but that's another subject. But these people were able to defend against the bad parts of smoking by having an antioxidant rich diet, among other things. So and you look at these cultures that don't have what we have, One of the things that's remarkable is that they have this really incredible tropical rainforest of gut microbiome. And Hillary Clinton would say, it takes a village. But we used to have this incredible tropical rainforest and it could handle anything that came down the pike. And this tropical rainforest was capable of making sure that nothing bad got to the wall of the gut. And if the wall of the gut was damaged, they made compounds that actually rapidly repaired the wall of the gut. Now, as any of us know, our tropical rainforest is a desert wasteland. We have destroyed it in lots of fascinating ways. Number one, antibiotics. Broad spectrum antibiotics. I was actually in medical school when broad spectrum antibiotics were introduced. And we just thought it was the greatest advance in the history of mankind. Because before then we had to try and figure out what bacteria was causing an infection. We had to try to grow it, we had to test antibiotics against it. And it was a time consuming process. And usually we were wrong. Then all of a sudden, you know, we had an AK47 and, you know, set on automatic and we could mow down every living bacteria known and unknown. But we had no idea that we were also killing off these guys that lived in our gut because we didn't even realize they were there. And then we found out that you could make animals grow faster and fatter if you gave them antibiotics. So almost all of our animals were given antibiotics. And so presto change. Oh, that's one thing that happened. Then glyphosate came along. Roundup. And most people don't realize that Monsanto patented glyphosate as an antibiotic, not as a weed killer. Oops, that should make us worry. And speaking of the brain, it turns out the glyphosate targets the bacteria that live in our gut that make the feel good hormones, the anti anxiety hormones, things like serotonin and things like gaba. And we have to have the back bacteria actually make those hormones for us. We didn't know that. We thought neurons did that. And now we've killed those guys off. So is it any wonder that we have this epidemic of anxiety and depression that, you know, it's just unbelievable? Yes, we have things to be depressed about and anxious about, but the epidemic is staggering. And it's just, we've just killed off this incredible part of us. Unwittingly, hopefully unwittingly. And building it back is part of this book. It can be built back. The tricks are in the book to help you build it back and that's part of the start.

[A]

Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check the links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.