Lessons - The Science of Charisma & Influence | Vanessa Van Edwards - Human Behavior Expert

March 25, 202500:13:50

In this "Lessons" episode, Vanessa Van Edwards, a leading human behavior expert, breaks down the science of charisma by revealing how a strategic blend of warmth and competence drives deeper connections. She explains why trust and authenticity matter more than being extroverted, and how subtle shifts in your verbal tone, body language, and visual presence can dramatically improve influence and connection in both social and professional settings.

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Transcript19 lines

[00:00]
Scott
Today's Success Story podcast is brought to you by Vanta. Now listen up. This matters for your business. In today's digital landscape, security isn't optional, it's essential. Without it, deal, stall, sales, cycle, stretch out and scaling becomes really difficult. Why? Because investors, customers, partners, they all expect businesses to demonstrate strong security practices before they commit to anything. And if you can't prove trust, you lose opportunities. So whether you're a startup founder trying to land that first big client or an established company scaling your security program, Vanta helps businesses of all sizes prove they're trustworthy by Automating compliance across 35 frameworks like SoC2, ISO 27001 and HIPAA. The exact certifications your prospects, your customers are demanding. And here's why you need to pay attention. Vanta gives you back precious time you're currently wasting on compliance. Their platform automates up to 90% of the tedious compliance work, and it helps you respond to those endless security questionnaires up to five times faster. And, and they also connect you with experts to get your security program running immediately. And the results, they speak for themselves. A recent IDC report found that Vanta customers achieve over $535,000 per year in benefits, and the platform pays for itself in just three months. So join over 10,000 global companies like Atlassian, Quora and Factory who use Vanta to manage risk, improve security in real time, and don't miss this for a limited time, only my listeners can get $1,000 off Vanta. That's real money back in your pocket. Visit vanta.comscott now before this offer expires. That's V a n t a dot com Scott for $1,000 off in this.
[01:40]
Amber
Lessons episode, discover the science behind charisma and the crucial balance of warmth and competence. Learn why showcasing genuine trust and approachability.
[01:49]
Scott
Outshines mere extroversion, and understand how mastering verbal, non verbal and visual cues can elevate both personal and professional relationships.
[02:08]
Amber
Maybe describe for the audience charisma, because we just talked about introvert, extrovert, Amber Vert. How does charisma tie into that?
[02:16]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, wonderful. So about nine years ago, I discovered a study that literally changed the way I interact. And I'm hoping now it will shift your perspective as well. So this is a research study that was done in 2002. It's been replicated a number of times. So it's a very, very good set of research by Dr. Susan Fisk. Now what she discovered is that highly charismatic people like the definition of charisma should all these hypotheses of what charisma charismatic people could be. Are they more extroverted? Are they more attractive? Are they taller? Are they smarter? Are they funnier? Right? All these different variables that we think of when we think of charisma. But actually what it came down to is none of those things mattered. The true indicator of charisma is that highly charismatic individuals rank off the charts in two specific traits, warmth and competence. That these two traits make up 82% of our impressions of people. Isn't that funny? 82% of people are amber birds. And 82% of our impressions.
[03:08]
Amber
I better make sure those are magic number.
[03:11]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Let's say the low 80s. Let's say in your low 80s that we tend to focus when we're going into a boardroom or a presentation or a party or a networking event or a date. We're focused on like 10 things. I gotta be funny. I gotta be interesting. I gotta be impressive. I gotta be smart, I gotta be attractive. But actually, what the research shows is you'd be better off putting all of your energy into showcasing warmth cues and competence cues. So it's critical that these are in balance. Warmth cues are signals of trust and likability and affability. Competence cues are cues of reliability, power, and efficiency. What is happening is that highly charismatic people, when you first see them on camera, see their LinkedIn profile, meet them in person. They are very quickly answering two questions. And these are the questions that we ask every single person we meet silently. Can I trust you? Can I rely on you? If you can quickly answer those questions with your cues, you are considered more highly charismatic. That is the formula for charisma.
[04:13]
Amber
It's so interesting. And because it actually seems like those two characteristics of charisma could almost be competing at some point.
[04:20]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, such a good point. Yes. So what often happens? The reason why charismatic people are so special is because most of us do not have a balance. Most of us are too high. And I also want to be clear. This is how you are showcasing your warmth and competence, not necessarily your actual warmth and competence. So, for example, most of my students are high achievers, brilliant, very smart folks who have trouble showcasing their idea. They have great ideas, but they don't get a lot of buy in on their ideas. Here's the problem with very smart people. Very smart people are focused on competence. They get really great data charts, graphs. They have solid background research on their data. They have great slides. But if they forget to showcase or wrap that idea in warmth, it leaves people feeling suspicious and that is directly from the research. The research has found is that if you had too much competence without enough warmth, people are suspicious of you and they're suspicious of your ideas. So the curse of smart people is they focus so much on their smart and that's all they're showcasing, that no one believes them.
[05:25]
Amber
So let's, I mean, we're really diving into the weeds of charisma very quickly so we can keep going down this path. I still want to understand. Actually, let's keep going down this path because I actually really like it a lot. So I want to understand how people can. I think people, at least audience members for this particular podcast, they understand competence and they probably over index on that side, and I would assume so. However, when they're listening to you and you're saying warmth has to balance out and there has to be almost this, this, this balance really, for lack of a better word, of both of both of these components, how does somebody manufacture warmth? Because that's a missing component. And I'm just thinking again, business context, even going on a date, pitching to investors, getting a job, hiring an employee, getting them to buy into your company, whatever it is, if you're highly competent, then there's that discord and there's that distrust, and then you're not optimizing the efficiency in that particular engagement.
[06:34]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Yes. So this is the number one challenge of all of our students. So in people's school, I have a program where that is exactly what happens. They come in and they're like, how do I manufacture warp? I feel all this posits, I have this idea. And so what I always say is, actually, you have warp. So we're not manufacturing anything. Are you passionate about your idea? Do you really want it to work? Do you think that people can trust you? Great, that's warm. Warmth is about passion, trust and enthusiasm. No, I occasionally get someone who's like, no, I don't love my idea. Gonna be hard. It is really hard to manufacture fake form and people. You can do it for a little bit, but you might want to get into another business. And then I say to them, well, are you passionate about making money? Are you passionate about helping? Like, where is there some kind of passion here? So one is that, yes, your idea is really important. Get your slides right, get your data right, get your due diligence right. And then remember how freaking excited you are, how freaking excited you are to help someone, how freaking decided you are to make money. That is true passion. And then remember that you did the due diligence. And that's where the trust come from. Comes from, right? It trust gives people composite reliability or competence. Okay. Then we come down to the manufacturing part. What I would say is showcasing. You have the passion, you have the trust and you have the competence. How do you signal both they it comes down specifically to the different channels of communication. I simplified about four channels of communication. There's lots of ways we do this, but this is kind of a framework to think about it because me as an awkward person, I was like, I need this simple. I need knowing exactly what to do to showcase warmth. So we showcase warmth through four channels. First, our words, the kinds of words we use on give an example of each in a second. Second, our body language, our gestures, our facial expressions, our posture. Third, our voice tone, how we deliver our words, how we sound as we deliver our volume, our pace, our cadence. Last, one, smallest one is our ornaments or imagery. The kinds of colors we wear, how we wear our hair, our facial hair, what's behind us in our zoom background. The, the signals, the images on our website, those are four channels. People are constantly looking through those four channels to try to find warmth and competence signals. So let's look at body language. For example, very highly charismatic people, when you first see them, they have a perfect balance of non verbal warmth cues. They're signaling you. And nonverbal competence cues are signaling you. So for example, a warmth cue might be a head tilt. So a head tilt is a universal sign of engagement across cultures, genders, races. When you ask someone do you hear that? They expose their ear. It's literally a sign of I'm listening. So there is studies that show that Even in a LinkedIn profile picture, if I were to have a slight head tilt, people rate me as right. So a highly warm person or highly charismatic person might have a head tilt in their profile picture. Let's even sit to static profile picture. They have a head tilt and they're also making direct eye contact with the camera and they're also fronting with the camera. So they're angling the their torso, their hips and their toes toward the camera. We also like people who are full fronting with them. We like to be aligned with them that c those cues balancing balance each other out. Once you stack all these different cues, I've identified 97 different cues. It's like a recipe. You get to sprinkle in the warmth cues that you like and the confidence cues you like.
[09:55]
Scott
A huge shout out to federated computer for supporting today's episode. Let me explain why I love federated Computer why they are friends of success story. They are changing the way businesses buy software because we all need software to run our businesses. I don't care what kind of business you're building, but the best business software doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars each month. So Federated Computer replaces a lot of the software that you're using right now. Let me explain. The average typical Federated computer customer saves 75% or more on their software bill and gets great software, top notch customer service and support and a software solution that is uniquely installed for your business without any sort of surveillance or breaches of privacy. For example, if you use Google for email, Salesforce for CRM, Slack for team chat, list Monkey for customer acquisitions and Airtable for data management. With a team of 10, you'd save $9,000 per year on software costs. By switching to Federated Computer they replace all of those. And what's wild is that the cost of Federated Computer doesn't grow as your team grows. You can use Federated Computer savings to grow your business. Rather than feed the woke Silicon Valley software companies, the Federated Computer team literally invented cloud software. They actually have the patents to prove it. And they are taking a hammer to the ridiculously high prices of of business software that all entrepreneurs are suffering from. Federated Computer they've been a longtime supporter of success story. They're offering 30% off their already low prices when you use a coupon code freelance. So go to www.federated.computer to begin saving 75% or more on your monthly software costs. That's www.federated.computer. these folks are going to do you a big favor. Check them out.
[11:40]
Amber
So when, I mean when you're going through your life, obviously there's 97 different cues. That's a lot of things to remember. What are the main, what are the sort of like the, the introduction to, to being charismatic and to integrating these cues into your day to day. What are the things that people should first start to think about? Sort of like step zero.
[12:01]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, step zero is actually words. And the reason for that is because as humans typically we think about what to say, we're less focused on our body language. I always like to start with words. Also so much of our, so many of our impressions are happening over email or on LinkedIn. So actually words is one that we can focus on. It's the easiest. So here's step zero is in your LinkedIn profile picture. Do you have a balance of warmth and competence? Verbal cues and there's a very interesting study that shows you how powerful this is. So in this research experiment, they brought people into their lab, they split them up into two different groups. The first group came into the lab, greeted the researcher, hello. And the researcher said, today you are going to play the Wall street game. And they had them play a prisoner's dilemma type of game. The second group came into the same lab with the same researcher, and they were told, hello, today you're going to play the community game. And the trick was, the games were exactly the same. Everything was the same except for that one word change is that some people were told they were playing the Wall street game, and some people were told they were playing the community game. Everyone who was told they were playing the Wall street game shared an average of one third of their profits. Everyone who was told they were playing the community game showed an average of 2/3 of their profits. This is an incredible experiment, and it's been shown in different ways that even suggesting to someone they're playing the community game activates a part of their brain that literally thinks communally. And they take that as a behavior cue and then they act more communally. Whereas people who were told they were playing to Wall street game acted more competitively. I share this because the words that are in your LinkedIn profile, if they are sterile or overly businesslike jargon, they don't have any behavior cueing at all. And so what I want you to begin to think about is how can you balance the WARF verbal cues and the competence verbal cues in your emails, your LinkedIn profiles. So, for example, warm words. This is a little bit more art than science, but warm words make us feel the warm and fuzzies. They make us want to connect and communicate. They're words like happy together best, Both our collaborate, communal, they're words like that. Whereas competent words activate a part of our prefrontal cortex that makes us want to get it done. So there are words like power efficient, brainstorm, checklists, seed achieved, master by words like that. We hear them, our brain goes, oh, we better get to work. We better get things done. Those words are literally behavior cues. And so the very first ground zero is starting to think about how can you add more of them? Not a lot. Remember, it only took one word to have a massive behavior change in that experiment. How can you begin to sprinkle these in to your emails, your calendar invites, your marketing materials, your social profiles even? You'll notice, like, on my Instagram, I have a perfect blend of warmth and confidence cues. In my bio, I have questions about.
[14:54]
Amber
How you set yourself, yourself up now, because I know that you put so much thought into this. I'm curious about your background. I'm curious about everything.
[15:02]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Yeah. So everything, most everything I do is purposeful in that way because I'm trying to set myself up for success. Because I am still a recovering awkward person. The more that I feel like I can control the cues, whether that's on social or in my background or things like that, it helps me feel calmer. Like that's my back door into confidence. And so like in Instagram, in my profile, I have like, you know, mom, mom too. Very warm, right?
[15:25]
Amber
Yeah.
[15:25]
Dr. Susan Fisk
So then I have Wall street hero, best selling author, very competent. Right. Then I have recovering opera person, funny, warm, vulnerable. Right. Then I have like career people, school, super competent. Right. So you can balance this out in your profile. And then in my grid, I try to have a balance of warm and competent posts over the course of a month. So that. Because I know this is where I get advanced. So like super advanced. But I think we have to go here, which is I want you to have a balance, but I also want you to dial it like a thermostat. And this is what very highly charismatic people do is there are certain people who are warmer, right? Like by default, we typically have an imbalance. My warm posts appeal to them. I have certain followers that are super competent, like data analysts, researchers. My competent posts appeal to them. So I think it is my job as a creator and as a teacher to meet everyone where they are. And so I'm going to give my warm people their content. I'm going to give my comptroller their content. When I'm giving a keynote, typically have a 60 minute stage presentation and I count my slides. They are perfectly balanced between warm slides and competent slides. Warm slides, gifts, memes, stories, social proof, funny example, competent slides, any kind of data chart, graph, research, science, and like competent signals, like a credibility marker, like Wall Street Journal. I know that if I want to be a better teacher, I better make my competent both warm and my content both warm and competent. So it's hitting everyone for their preferences.
[16:58]
Amber
Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.

Lessons - The Science of Charisma & Influence | Vanessa Van Edwards - Human Behavior Expert

March 25, 202500:13:50

Summary5 min read

Summary of "Lessons - The Science of Charisma & Influence | Vanessa Van Edwards - Human Behavior Expert"

Release Date: March 25, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of the Success Story Podcast, hosted by Scott D. Clary, Dr. Susan Fisk—a renowned human behavior expert—delves into the intricate science of charisma and influence. The conversation centers around understanding the fundamental traits that constitute charisma and how individuals can harness these traits to enhance both personal and professional relationships.

The Science of Charisma

Dr. Susan Fisk begins by challenging common perceptions of what makes a person charismatic. Contrary to popular belief, traits like extroversion, attractiveness, height, intelligence, or humor do not singularly define charisma. Instead, Dr. Fisk emphasizes that charisma is predominantly rooted in two pivotal traits: warmth and competence.

Dr. Susan Fisk [03:07]: "The true indicator of charisma is that highly charismatic individuals rank off the charts in two specific traits, warmth and competence. That these two traits make up 82% of our impressions of people."

This insight is based on extensive research, including a study conducted in 2002 and replicated multiple times, which conclusively determined that warmth and competence account for the majority of how we perceive others.

Warmth and Competence: The Core of Charisma

Dr. Fisk elaborates on the definitions of these two traits:

Warmth Cues: These are signals of trust, likability, and affability. Examples include genuine passion, enthusiasm, and displaying trustworthiness.
Competence Cues: These indicate reliability, power, and efficiency. Demonstrating expertise, preparedness, and the ability to deliver results fall under this category.

The balance between these two traits is crucial. Excessive focus on either can lead to negative perceptions. For instance, being overly competent without showcasing warmth can make individuals appear suspicious or unapproachable.

Dr. Susan Fisk [05:24]: "If you have too much competence without enough warmth, people are suspicious of you and their ideas."

This balance ensures that while one is perceived as capable and reliable, they are also seen as approachable and trustworthy.

Balancing Warmth and Competence

Achieving equilibrium between warmth and competence is not always straightforward. Dr. Fisk points out that many high achievers tend to overemphasize competence, leading to a lack of warmth in their interactions. This imbalance can hinder the acceptance and support of their ideas, as others may question their trustworthiness or intentions.

Dr. Susan Fisk [04:20]: "Most of us are too high on either warmth or competence. Highly charismatic people manage to balance both seamlessly."

Understanding this dynamic is the first step toward developing genuine charisma. It's not about masking one's true self but rather about effectively communicating both warmth and competence through various channels.

Practical Strategies to Showcase Warmth and Competence

Dr. Fisk introduces a framework comprising four channels of communication through which individuals can effectively convey warmth and competence:

Words (Verbal Cues): The choice of language plays a pivotal role. Warm words evoke feelings of connection and trust, such as "happy," "together," "collaborate," and "communicate." In contrast, competent words trigger a sense of urgency and efficiency, like "power," "efficient," "brainstorm," and "achieve."

Dr. Susan Fisk [12:01]: "Warm words make us feel the warm and fuzzies. Competent words activate a part of our prefrontal cortex that makes us want to get it done."
Body Language: Non-verbal cues such as head tilts, direct eye contact, and open postures signal engagement and reliability. For example, a slight head tilt can universally signify attentiveness and interest.

Dr. Susan Fisk [06:33]: "A head tilt is a universal sign of engagement across cultures, genders, races. It's a sign of 'I'm listening.'"
Voice Tone: The way words are delivered—through tone, pace, and volume—can significantly impact perceptions. A warm and enthusiastic tone can enhance likability, while a confident and steady voice underscores competence.
Ornaments/Imagery: Visual elements like attire, hairstyle, and background settings in digital communications (e.g., LinkedIn profiles) contribute to the overall impression of warmth and competence.

Dr. Susan Fisk [06:33]: "You have to balance these cues. Highly warm people might lean more on warmth cues, while highly competent individuals might focus more on competent cues."

By consciously integrating these channels, individuals can project a balanced image that resonates with both warmth and competence.

Enhancing Your Charisma in Professional and Personal Life

Dr. Fisk provides actionable steps for listeners to enhance their charisma:

Assess Your Current Balance: Reflect on how you currently portray warmth and competence. Are you leaning too much towards one side?
Integrate Warm and Competent Words: Start by evaluating the language you use in professional settings, emails, and social media. Incorporate a mix of warm and competent words to influence behavior positively.

Dr. Susan Fisk [12:01]: "How can you add more of them? Not a lot. Remember, it only took one word to have a massive behavior change in that experiment."
Optimize Body Language: Practice non-verbal cues that signal both warmth and competence. Simple gestures like a genuine smile, maintaining eye contact, and open postures can make a significant difference.
Refine Voice Tone: Be mindful of how you speak. Strive for a tone that conveys enthusiasm and confidence without appearing domineering.
Curate Your Visual Presentation: Whether it's your LinkedIn profile picture or the background during a Zoom call, ensure that your visual elements align with the warmth and competence you wish to project.

Dr. Fisk emphasizes that these strategies are about showcasing existing warmth and competence rather than manufacturing them. Authenticity is key to genuine charisma.

Dr. Susan Fisk [06:33]: "It is showcasing how you display your warmth and competence, not necessarily your actual warmth and competence."

Conclusion

The episode underscores that charisma is not an innate trait reserved for the naturally extroverted or inherently charming individuals. Instead, it's a skill that can be developed by understanding and effectively communicating warmth and competence. By strategically leveraging verbal and non-verbal cues, individuals can enhance their influence and build stronger, more trusting relationships in all facets of life.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Susan Fisk [03:07]: "The true indicator of charisma is that highly charismatic individuals rank off the charts in two specific traits, warmth and competence. That these two traits make up 82% of our impressions of people."
Dr. Susan Fisk [05:24]: "If you have too much competence without enough warmth, people are suspicious of you and their ideas."
Dr. Susan Fisk [12:01]: "Warm words make us feel the warm and fuzzies. Competent words activate a part of our prefrontal cortex that makes us want to get it done."
Dr. Susan Fisk [06:33]: "A head tilt is a universal sign of engagement across cultures, genders, races. It's a sign of 'I'm listening.'"

This comprehensive discussion provides valuable insights into the mechanics of charisma, empowering listeners to cultivate a balanced presence that fosters trust, likability, and influence.

Loading summary

Transcript19 lines

[00:00]
Scott
Today's Success Story podcast is brought to you by Vanta. Now listen up. This matters for your business. In today's digital landscape, security isn't optional, it's essential. Without it, deal, stall, sales, cycle, stretch out and scaling becomes really difficult. Why? Because investors, customers, partners, they all expect businesses to demonstrate strong security practices before they commit to anything. And if you can't prove trust, you lose opportunities. So whether you're a startup founder trying to land that first big client or an established company scaling your security program, Vanta helps businesses of all sizes prove they're trustworthy by Automating compliance across 35 frameworks like SoC2, ISO 27001 and HIPAA. The exact certifications your prospects, your customers are demanding. And here's why you need to pay attention. Vanta gives you back precious time you're currently wasting on compliance. Their platform automates up to 90% of the tedious compliance work, and it helps you respond to those endless security questionnaires up to five times faster. And, and they also connect you with experts to get your security program running immediately. And the results, they speak for themselves. A recent IDC report found that Vanta customers achieve over $535,000 per year in benefits, and the platform pays for itself in just three months. So join over 10,000 global companies like Atlassian, Quora and Factory who use Vanta to manage risk, improve security in real time, and don't miss this for a limited time, only my listeners can get $1,000 off Vanta. That's real money back in your pocket. Visit vanta.comscott now before this offer expires. That's V a n t a dot com Scott for $1,000 off in this.
[01:40]
Amber
Lessons episode, discover the science behind charisma and the crucial balance of warmth and competence. Learn why showcasing genuine trust and approachability.
[01:49]
Scott
Outshines mere extroversion, and understand how mastering verbal, non verbal and visual cues can elevate both personal and professional relationships.
[02:08]
Amber
Maybe describe for the audience charisma, because we just talked about introvert, extrovert, Amber Vert. How does charisma tie into that?
[02:16]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, wonderful. So about nine years ago, I discovered a study that literally changed the way I interact. And I'm hoping now it will shift your perspective as well. So this is a research study that was done in 2002. It's been replicated a number of times. So it's a very, very good set of research by Dr. Susan Fisk. Now what she discovered is that highly charismatic people like the definition of charisma should all these hypotheses of what charisma charismatic people could be. Are they more extroverted? Are they more attractive? Are they taller? Are they smarter? Are they funnier? Right? All these different variables that we think of when we think of charisma. But actually what it came down to is none of those things mattered. The true indicator of charisma is that highly charismatic individuals rank off the charts in two specific traits, warmth and competence. That these two traits make up 82% of our impressions of people. Isn't that funny? 82% of people are amber birds. And 82% of our impressions.
[03:08]
Amber
I better make sure those are magic number.
[03:11]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Let's say the low 80s. Let's say in your low 80s that we tend to focus when we're going into a boardroom or a presentation or a party or a networking event or a date. We're focused on like 10 things. I gotta be funny. I gotta be interesting. I gotta be impressive. I gotta be smart, I gotta be attractive. But actually, what the research shows is you'd be better off putting all of your energy into showcasing warmth cues and competence cues. So it's critical that these are in balance. Warmth cues are signals of trust and likability and affability. Competence cues are cues of reliability, power, and efficiency. What is happening is that highly charismatic people, when you first see them on camera, see their LinkedIn profile, meet them in person. They are very quickly answering two questions. And these are the questions that we ask every single person we meet silently. Can I trust you? Can I rely on you? If you can quickly answer those questions with your cues, you are considered more highly charismatic. That is the formula for charisma.
[04:13]
Amber
It's so interesting. And because it actually seems like those two characteristics of charisma could almost be competing at some point.
[04:20]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, such a good point. Yes. So what often happens? The reason why charismatic people are so special is because most of us do not have a balance. Most of us are too high. And I also want to be clear. This is how you are showcasing your warmth and competence, not necessarily your actual warmth and competence. So, for example, most of my students are high achievers, brilliant, very smart folks who have trouble showcasing their idea. They have great ideas, but they don't get a lot of buy in on their ideas. Here's the problem with very smart people. Very smart people are focused on competence. They get really great data charts, graphs. They have solid background research on their data. They have great slides. But if they forget to showcase or wrap that idea in warmth, it leaves people feeling suspicious and that is directly from the research. The research has found is that if you had too much competence without enough warmth, people are suspicious of you and they're suspicious of your ideas. So the curse of smart people is they focus so much on their smart and that's all they're showcasing, that no one believes them.
[05:25]
Amber
So let's, I mean, we're really diving into the weeds of charisma very quickly so we can keep going down this path. I still want to understand. Actually, let's keep going down this path because I actually really like it a lot. So I want to understand how people can. I think people, at least audience members for this particular podcast, they understand competence and they probably over index on that side, and I would assume so. However, when they're listening to you and you're saying warmth has to balance out and there has to be almost this, this, this balance really, for lack of a better word, of both of both of these components, how does somebody manufacture warmth? Because that's a missing component. And I'm just thinking again, business context, even going on a date, pitching to investors, getting a job, hiring an employee, getting them to buy into your company, whatever it is, if you're highly competent, then there's that discord and there's that distrust, and then you're not optimizing the efficiency in that particular engagement.
[06:34]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Yes. So this is the number one challenge of all of our students. So in people's school, I have a program where that is exactly what happens. They come in and they're like, how do I manufacture warp? I feel all this posits, I have this idea. And so what I always say is, actually, you have warp. So we're not manufacturing anything. Are you passionate about your idea? Do you really want it to work? Do you think that people can trust you? Great, that's warm. Warmth is about passion, trust and enthusiasm. No, I occasionally get someone who's like, no, I don't love my idea. Gonna be hard. It is really hard to manufacture fake form and people. You can do it for a little bit, but you might want to get into another business. And then I say to them, well, are you passionate about making money? Are you passionate about helping? Like, where is there some kind of passion here? So one is that, yes, your idea is really important. Get your slides right, get your data right, get your due diligence right. And then remember how freaking excited you are, how freaking excited you are to help someone, how freaking decided you are to make money. That is true passion. And then remember that you did the due diligence. And that's where the trust come from. Comes from, right? It trust gives people composite reliability or competence. Okay. Then we come down to the manufacturing part. What I would say is showcasing. You have the passion, you have the trust and you have the competence. How do you signal both they it comes down specifically to the different channels of communication. I simplified about four channels of communication. There's lots of ways we do this, but this is kind of a framework to think about it because me as an awkward person, I was like, I need this simple. I need knowing exactly what to do to showcase warmth. So we showcase warmth through four channels. First, our words, the kinds of words we use on give an example of each in a second. Second, our body language, our gestures, our facial expressions, our posture. Third, our voice tone, how we deliver our words, how we sound as we deliver our volume, our pace, our cadence. Last, one, smallest one is our ornaments or imagery. The kinds of colors we wear, how we wear our hair, our facial hair, what's behind us in our zoom background. The, the signals, the images on our website, those are four channels. People are constantly looking through those four channels to try to find warmth and competence signals. So let's look at body language. For example, very highly charismatic people, when you first see them, they have a perfect balance of non verbal warmth cues. They're signaling you. And nonverbal competence cues are signaling you. So for example, a warmth cue might be a head tilt. So a head tilt is a universal sign of engagement across cultures, genders, races. When you ask someone do you hear that? They expose their ear. It's literally a sign of I'm listening. So there is studies that show that Even in a LinkedIn profile picture, if I were to have a slight head tilt, people rate me as right. So a highly warm person or highly charismatic person might have a head tilt in their profile picture. Let's even sit to static profile picture. They have a head tilt and they're also making direct eye contact with the camera and they're also fronting with the camera. So they're angling the their torso, their hips and their toes toward the camera. We also like people who are full fronting with them. We like to be aligned with them that c those cues balancing balance each other out. Once you stack all these different cues, I've identified 97 different cues. It's like a recipe. You get to sprinkle in the warmth cues that you like and the confidence cues you like.
[09:55]
Scott
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[11:40]
Amber
So when, I mean when you're going through your life, obviously there's 97 different cues. That's a lot of things to remember. What are the main, what are the sort of like the, the introduction to, to being charismatic and to integrating these cues into your day to day. What are the things that people should first start to think about? Sort of like step zero.
[12:01]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Okay, step zero is actually words. And the reason for that is because as humans typically we think about what to say, we're less focused on our body language. I always like to start with words. Also so much of our, so many of our impressions are happening over email or on LinkedIn. So actually words is one that we can focus on. It's the easiest. So here's step zero is in your LinkedIn profile picture. Do you have a balance of warmth and competence? Verbal cues and there's a very interesting study that shows you how powerful this is. So in this research experiment, they brought people into their lab, they split them up into two different groups. The first group came into the lab, greeted the researcher, hello. And the researcher said, today you are going to play the Wall street game. And they had them play a prisoner's dilemma type of game. The second group came into the same lab with the same researcher, and they were told, hello, today you're going to play the community game. And the trick was, the games were exactly the same. Everything was the same except for that one word change is that some people were told they were playing the Wall street game, and some people were told they were playing the community game. Everyone who was told they were playing the Wall street game shared an average of one third of their profits. Everyone who was told they were playing the community game showed an average of 2/3 of their profits. This is an incredible experiment, and it's been shown in different ways that even suggesting to someone they're playing the community game activates a part of their brain that literally thinks communally. And they take that as a behavior cue and then they act more communally. Whereas people who were told they were playing to Wall street game acted more competitively. I share this because the words that are in your LinkedIn profile, if they are sterile or overly businesslike jargon, they don't have any behavior cueing at all. And so what I want you to begin to think about is how can you balance the WARF verbal cues and the competence verbal cues in your emails, your LinkedIn profiles. So, for example, warm words. This is a little bit more art than science, but warm words make us feel the warm and fuzzies. They make us want to connect and communicate. They're words like happy together best, Both our collaborate, communal, they're words like that. Whereas competent words activate a part of our prefrontal cortex that makes us want to get it done. So there are words like power efficient, brainstorm, checklists, seed achieved, master by words like that. We hear them, our brain goes, oh, we better get to work. We better get things done. Those words are literally behavior cues. And so the very first ground zero is starting to think about how can you add more of them? Not a lot. Remember, it only took one word to have a massive behavior change in that experiment. How can you begin to sprinkle these in to your emails, your calendar invites, your marketing materials, your social profiles even? You'll notice, like, on my Instagram, I have a perfect blend of warmth and confidence cues. In my bio, I have questions about.
[14:54]
Amber
How you set yourself, yourself up now, because I know that you put so much thought into this. I'm curious about your background. I'm curious about everything.
[15:02]
Dr. Susan Fisk
Yeah. So everything, most everything I do is purposeful in that way because I'm trying to set myself up for success. Because I am still a recovering awkward person. The more that I feel like I can control the cues, whether that's on social or in my background or things like that, it helps me feel calmer. Like that's my back door into confidence. And so like in Instagram, in my profile, I have like, you know, mom, mom too. Very warm, right?
[15:25]
Amber
Yeah.
[15:25]
Dr. Susan Fisk
So then I have Wall street hero, best selling author, very competent. Right. Then I have recovering opera person, funny, warm, vulnerable. Right. Then I have like career people, school, super competent. Right. So you can balance this out in your profile. And then in my grid, I try to have a balance of warm and competent posts over the course of a month. So that. Because I know this is where I get advanced. So like super advanced. But I think we have to go here, which is I want you to have a balance, but I also want you to dial it like a thermostat. And this is what very highly charismatic people do is there are certain people who are warmer, right? Like by default, we typically have an imbalance. My warm posts appeal to them. I have certain followers that are super competent, like data analysts, researchers. My competent posts appeal to them. So I think it is my job as a creator and as a teacher to meet everyone where they are. And so I'm going to give my warm people their content. I'm going to give my comptroller their content. When I'm giving a keynote, typically have a 60 minute stage presentation and I count my slides. They are perfectly balanced between warm slides and competent slides. Warm slides, gifts, memes, stories, social proof, funny example, competent slides, any kind of data chart, graph, research, science, and like competent signals, like a credibility marker, like Wall Street Journal. I know that if I want to be a better teacher, I better make my competent both warm and my content both warm and competent. So it's hitting everyone for their preferences.
[16:58]
Amber
Thanks for tuning in. If you found this valuable, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you want to dive deeper into this conversation, check out links in the description to watch the full episode. See you in the next one.