B (3:36)

Yeah, good question. So I love fear and thinking about it, I don't love the feeling of it, but I love the way it manifests in humans lives. Fear at its simplest form is just a defense mechanism. That's all that it is. It's trying to protect you. And so if it's like, hey, you should, if I have this feeling, if I should leave my job and that is me thinking that and that's like my gut feeling, but my brain pops in is like, hey, but how are you going to pay the bills? That is just at, at its, at its core, if you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, security is the number one thing that is what we're looking for. And so it's like, okay, if I lose my job or if I leave job and I start growing my own business, what if I can't pay my bills? What if I can't feed my family? Like that is like at the root of what we are as humans. Like we need that security before we can do anything else. As far as self actualization goes on the other side of that. And I'll answer it how it works in the human brain. And this is, I wrote, I have an entire chapter on fear in my book that was really eye opening me for when I came across and started realizing this stuff. And then I'll tell you how it actually happened in my life with the leaving of it, leaving the job, doing what I do now, all of that. So I had a friend that his name was Chad and his name is Chad. He's still alive. So it's not Wes. Chad, Chad is still alive. So Chad and I were having a conversation years ago and he, he's a very alternative lifestyle post type type person. So he went down and he lived with a native Brazilian tribe in the middle of nowhere. And when I say native Brazilian, I mean that he flew down to Brazil, he got on a boat and it took two days of sleeping overnight to finally get to this tribe. There's no roads, there's no. That's the only way you can get to this tribe. You gotta take, take a, you know, go down to Amazon, all that to get there. So he lives with them.

A (5:15)

So like Chad, Chad's done for sure, like ayahuasca. And Chad's done all.

B (5:19)

That's how he got there. Right. That's what I mean by alternative lifestyle. He's awesome. It's like in. Yeah, I have no doubt one of, one of the most amazing humans alive too. Like just a calming, peaceful presence when you're in this diet. He's also like 40 pounds of muscle, more than I am in the same size as me, right. So. But amazing human. And he went down there and he lived with them and to the point where he like lived in teepees. He had to walk around with a machete. They hunted anacondas. And he said, he said, he said if a jaguar sees you, it's already too late because it's now allowing it to. It's now allowing you to see it because it's going to attack you. Like that's there. It's. It's fear of safety all the time. And he said, he said, what's really interesting is none of these people were depressed because they don't have time to think about depression. It's kind of like there's a phrase that says like one of the greatest faults that we have as human is having enough time to sit around and ask myself, like, am I happy? Like, there's a lot of people in the world don't even. They can't even think am I happy? Because they're just worried about survival. And so then we started talking about the, the primal fears that exist when you live in the Amazon. Like, primal is like. And then there's. And then, so we started talking about, well, what, okay, we don't really have primal fears. So what do we have? And we're like, we have basically intellectual fears. So like then in my book I split up of two different types of fears. So a primal fear, the way I describe it and the way that we still think about it in our head, unless we consciously Bring it to the surface and actually think about it. Is a primal fear means that there's physical pain or there's death that's potentially attached to it, right? That's why people have the fear of heights. That's why they have the fear of spiders. That's why people. If you're walking through and you hear a loud noise in the jungle, there's a primal fear. On the other side of that are intellectual fears. And an intellectual fear could be because of the fact that we don't live in the middle of the jungle anymore. Our brain creates all of these other fears. The amygdala still exists inside of our brain, so it's still always creating these fears. So an intellectual fear would be like a fear of other people's opinions. The fear of rejection, the fear of failure, the fear of success. And the way that you can distinguish the two of them is if you ask yourself, this fear, is it going to kill me? And does it exist in reality? Like, if you look at the fear of. Of rejection, does it exist in reality? Is it tangible? Can you hold it physically? You can't. Where does it exist? It exists in your mind, which means that you are making it up. You're literally making it up. And I remember I was, as I was writing the book, I was listening to a lot of. I was listening to everything I possibly could as I was writing it. And I think it was Sadhguru that I was listening to. And he was talking about fear and how we make up all of these fears. And he said, and this is what I write about in the book is, okay, now that I've identified my fear of success, my fear of failure, my fear of rejection, my fear of other people's opinions, how do I overcome it? And the answer is, you can't overcome something that doesn't exist because it doesn't actually exist. And so we're basically waking up in the morning, we're creating the boogeyman, which is these intellectual fears that don't exist in reality. And instead of taking action on the life that we want, what are we doing? We're fighting the boogeyman and wasting our energy fighting the boogeyman all day long versus just taking action towards the thing that we want. Now, how did it manifest in my life? I'll tell you, like, I almost went back to working for somebody else. So I left my job. It was like right before. So it would have been October of 2015. So, yeah, nine years ago at this point, it's October of 2015. And I was like, I left. And I was full of fear because, like, we were talking about before we started podcasting, there was no money in podcasting. Nine and a half years ago, there was none, right? There was no sponsors. People don't even know how to listen to podcasts. And so. So there was no money. And so I was. I was kind of, like, jumping off. But in my heart, like, it felt like this is the thing I'm supposed to do. But as soon as the paycheck stopped coming in, I just had. I bought a new house like, four or five months before in July, and I had to still pay for myself and pay for my food and pay for my car payments and all of this. And I went through my first month of just not having money coming in and paying bills from my savings and it coming out, I started getting, like, really, really full of fear. And I believe that. That the universe, God, life, whatever you believe in, is always speaking to us. We just have to be quiet enough to listen to it. And I had this feeling of like, maybe I should go back and work for someone else. Maybe I should. Like, maybe I should just go back. I'm terrified. I'm full of so much fear. I went back home to Florida. I live in Texas now. Went back home to Florida. And my sister just comes up to me and she's like, hey, have you ever seen this box of dad's stuff? And my father had died in 2001. He was an alcoholic. You know, he passed away when I was 15. And so what are we talking? That's 14 years before he had passed away. She's like, have you ever seen this box of dad's stuff? And I was like, no. And it was like old T shirt of his. It was his glasses, it was his watch. And then there were letters. My father was in jail for a little while, and he used to write us letters. And I was reading these letters, and the very last sentence of one of them was, it was a letter from my. To my sister on her 19th birthday. The very last sentence was, I hope you live your life with courage, love and laughter. And then it said. And then it had, like, courage. And then it had a little asterisk next to the word courage. And then down below it had, courage is not the absence of fear. It is deciding that you are going to move forward in spite of it. And I read it, and it was this weird, like, the universe, like, warped. And I was like, oh, my God. I think my dad wrote this for me. The universe was speaking through my dad. To my sister for me to find this in this moment right now. And I was like, this is the universe telling me that I have to do this. Like, I have to go forward with it. Like I have to burn the ships. Like there has to be. You know, as a great philosopher, Marshall Mathers says, success is my only motherfucking option. Failure is not. That's what I have to think about with this thing. Like, I have to do this and the universe will support me and I just have to trust. I was like, what do I need to do? And I was like, I need to get this tattooed on me. Like, I need to just burn the ships. And so literally, it's my dad's handwriting is on the inside. It says, live your life with courage, love and laughter. On the arm. This is his handwriting blown up in my arm. Very first tattoo that I ever got. And I only have two. The only other one that I have is the roman numeral for 10,000 for the 10,000 hour rule. And so for, for me, I always recommend that people make a decision and they just go, will you fear the fear? Absolutely. Every single day. But it's not about not feeling. Feeling any fear. It's about feeling the fear, taking it. Understanding is trying to protect you but deciding to move forward anyways. And so I think that's the biggest piece of it. Now if somebody's like, I want to quit my job and start a company, I don't think you just leave like I did. I actually recommend you make a transition plan. Like make a year long transition plan, make a two year transition plan where you're going to be out, you're going to save up and you're going to start building money the side business on the side on the weekends. So that therefore the fear starts to go away. Because the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy needs is taken care of, which is my safety. I can pay my bills. So now I can leave my job.

A (12:27)

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B (16:48)

I think it depends on the person, right? Like some people are. I am the type of person where I will take risks, but there are very calculated risks. My best friend, he will take very uncalculated risks. He has no problem with it. Like, I don't. I don't even like gambling. He loves gambling. So I think it depends on the person. People that are very risk adverse and some people that don't care about risk. And so I think it depends on the person. For me, I'm in between where, you know, I want to make sure that what I'm stepping into is the correct thing for me. I'm very logical in the way that I think. And then at the same time, I want to de risk it as much as possible so that therefore I'm good to take action on this thing if it's something for, like, where we're talking about a very serious life event that someone's moving into where they're wanting to start a business. I am a really big believer in going with your gut feeling with stuff. And then people ask, like, well, how do you find your gut feeling? What is all of that? I think your gut feeling is a blend of intuition and also experience. And so, you know, like, I have a friend that gave me a great example is like, you should definitely go with your gut feeling. If you're a pilot that has 40,000 hours in a plane and you hear a noise that you've never heard before, it's like, okay, there's something wrong. I'm going to go with my gut feeling. If it's your first flight and you're just soloing for the first time ever, there might be a noise you've never heard before because you've only got 40 hours under your belt. There's a big difference between the two. And so I think it's an intuition is a gut feeling, but it's also a little bit of a blend of experience as well. So for me, like it was a little bit easier to jump off and grow a business because I'd grown businesses before in the past that failed and that's why there's a lot of fear behind them. And then I went into corporate as well. And so I think more than anything else I think it depends on the person and how, how risk adverse they are. But I do think that it is somebody's Runway of how long they have to mess up will be longer the more that they can de risk the situation, which could be I have, you know, $40,000 saved up, I'm good for the next year of bills, I can put everything into it. So I think it depends on the person. But I also think that you could, you should try to de risk it as much as you possibly can or create the longest Runway that you possibly can when you're making a big life adjustment.

A (18:58)

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