Success Story with Scott D. Clary

Guest: Michael Bungay Stanier (MBS)
Episode Title: #1 Coaching Expert | Why Smart People Give Terrible Advice
Date: September 14, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott D. Clary interviews Michael Bungay Stanier, bestselling author of "The Coaching Habit" and renowned thought leader in modern coaching. Together, they explore why smart people often give ineffective advice, how curiosity trumps advice-giving, and practical frameworks for leaders, managers, and anyone who wants to empower others. MBS breaks down his acclaimed "seven questions" framework, shares why coaching is about being genuinely present, and reveals how these ideas can transform both work and personal relationships.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Advice-Giving Fails

Timestamps: [00:58] – [04:35]

• MBS’s Early Experience:

  • Volunteered as a teen at a crisis helpline; learned that people want to be seen and heard, not told what to do.
  • “Your advice, my advice is never as good as I think it is, and it’s often not the thing that is actually wanted in most interactions.” (MBS, 02:52)

• Role of Ego:

  • Many people default to advice-giving as a way to establish authority or feel helpful.
  • “We've been trained all our life to be good kids, to have the answer... We kind of attach a good degree of our sense of importance in the world as to being the person who has the answer.” (MBS, 04:43)

• The ‘Advice Monster’ Concept:

  • MBS introduces the “advice monster” – three drivers: Tell It (must have answers), Save It (must protect everyone), Control It (must control the outcome).

2. Demystifying Coaching

Timestamps: [06:51] – [10:53]

• Public Perception of Coaching:

  • Coaching can seem “woo-woo” or overly formal. Many associate it with therapy or sports.
  • “...It can all sound a bit woo woo and a bit like I’m wearing a caftan and I’m lighting incense... For a bunch of people...I’m not that much into the woo-wooness of it all.” (MBS, 07:13)

• Anyone Can Be Coach-Like:

  • True coaching isn’t about formal roles; it’s about curiosity, asking questions, and holding space.
  • “If you interact with other human beings, being more coach-like can be a helpful way of showing up.” (MBS, 08:53)

• Leadership and Coaching:

  • Coaching is underutilized as a leadership style, even though it improves culture and bottom-line results.
  • Cites Daniel Goleman's “Six Styles of Leadership”: Mastery comes from being able to use multiple styles, including coaching.

3. The Core Coaching Skill: Staying Curious

Timestamps: [13:08] – [14:26]

• “Can you stay curious a little bit longer? If you can do that, everything changes.” (MBS, 13:36)

• Delaying advice not only empowers others but also surfaces deeper problems and better solutions.

4. The Three Vicious Circles for Leaders

Timestamps: [14:26] – [17:56]

• Over-Dependent Teams:

  • Giving advice creates reliance and bottlenecks.

• Overwhelm:

  • Too much ends up on the leader’s plate.

• Disconnect:

  • Losing touch with the “why” behind the work; teams become disengaged.

• “...one of the reasons you might be interested in being more coach-like is it can help you break through these three vicious circles.” (MBS, 17:06)

5. The Seven Essential Coaching Questions

Timestamps: [17:56] – [21:59]

1. Kickstart Question:
   What’s on your mind?
2. Focus Question:
   What’s the real challenge here for you?
3. Best Coaching Question:
   And what else?
4. Foundation Question:
   What do you want?
5. Strategic Question:
   If you’re saying yes to this, what must you say no to?
6. Lazy (Helping) Question:
   How can I help? / What do you want from me?
7. Learning Question:
   What was most useful or valuable about this for you?

• “If you can integrate...even just some of the seven questions into the way you work, that’s going to help you stay curious a little bit longer.” (MBS, 14:26)

6. Creating Psychological Safety and Trust

Timestamps: [25:27] – [30:27]

• Why “Why?” Can Backfire:

  • “Why” questions sound accusatory and put people on the defensive; “What” questions keep it open.

• Building Trust:

  • Coaching is about relationships, not formal sessions.
  • “One of the most powerful ways of framing coaching is not that it's an occasional one-off, formalized event, but that it's an everyday way of working with people...” (MBS, 26:30)

• Transparency:

  • Directly asking, “What would it take for us to go deeper?” if the conversation is stuck.

• MBS’s Coaching Principles:

  • Be Lazy (don’t do their work),
  • Be Curious (tame your advice monster),
  • Be Often (any interaction can be a coaching moment).

7. Underused Questions and Frameworks

Timestamps: [30:27] – [36:24]

• Strategic Question is Underutilized: Helps focus limited energy.
• “How can I help?” as Anti-Rescuer:
  • Prevents dysfunctional rescuer-victim-persecutor triangle (Karpman Drama Triangle).
  • “That question, ‘how can I help?’, or ‘what do you want from me?’ is a way of slowing down the dynamic just enough so you’re not instantly pulled into the rescuer mode.” (MBS, 34:32)

8. Developing Adult-to-Adult Relationships

Timestamps: [36:03] – [38:38]

• Key to True Collaboration:
  • “Being able to ask for what you want, knowing the answer might be no, and being willing to negotiate.” (MBS, 36:05)
• Martin Buber’s “I-Thou” vs “I-It”:
  • Most relationships are transactional (“I-It”); coaching fosters mutual respect and presence (“I-Thou”).

9. Coaching at Home and Life

Timestamps: [38:38] – [44:19]

• Parental & Personal Application:
  • The same coaching presence transforms family, marriages, and friendships.
  • “A fierce love might manifest itself in you going, look, I'm going to ask the question and be present...not correct them and not give them advice...” (MBS, 41:26)

10. Common Coaching Pitfalls

Timestamps: [47:25] – [50:05]

• Don’t Announce Coaching—Just Be Coach-Like:

  • Labeling it as “coaching” can cause defensiveness.
  • “If there's one thing... notice how fast you want to interrupt, how fast you want to offer ideas and opinions.” (MBS, 47:25)

• Value of Silence and “And what else?”

  • Sometimes, saying nothing is the most powerful tool.

11. When & How to Offer Advice

Timestamps: [50:05] – [54:02]

• Offer only after exploring their own ideas:
  • Script: "I've got some ideas, but before I tell you, what ideas do you already have?"
  • Use “And what else?” to get everything out first. Share advice only when they’ve finished.

12. Self-Coaching & Daily Routines

Timestamps: [54:02] – [58:42]

• MBS’s Morning and Evening Reflection:
  • Morning:
    1. “What do you notice?”
    2. “What do you want?”
    3. “What’s the one thing to do?”
  • Evening:
    1. “What made today a good day?”

13. The Worthy Goal Framework

Timestamps: [58:42] – [67:42]

• Three Pillars of a Worthy Goal:

  • Thrilling, Important, Daunting.
  • “Does it light you up? Is it important? Does it make your world a better place? And is it daunting – will it stretch you?” (MBS, 60:30)

• Evaluating Prizes and Punishments:

  • Before starting, list the rewards and risks of doing—and not doing—the goal.
  • “Once you make the choice, find your people to do it with... It’s really hard to do this by yourself.” (MBS, 64:42)

14. The Heart of Coaching: Presence and Fierce Love

Timestamps: [70:14] – [72:44]

• Ten-Year Anniversary Edition of "The Coaching Habit":
  • New material focuses on the “being” of coaching—showing up as your best, most heart-forward self.
  • “People remember the conversations... not for the questions you’re asking them, but for the way you’re showing up for them.” (MBS, 72:32)

Memorable Quotes

• "Your advice, my advice is never as good as I think it is, and it's often not the thing that is actually wanted in most interactions."
  (MBS, 02:52)

• "Can you stay curious a little bit longer? If you can do that, everything changes."
  (MBS, 13:36)

• "If you interact with other human beings, being more coach-like can be a helpful way of showing up."
  (MBS, 08:53)

• "How can I help?" is a way of slowing down the dynamic just enough so you’re not instantly pulled into the rescuer mode.”
  (MBS, 34:32)

• "People remember the conversations... not for the questions you’re asking them, but for the way you’re showing up for them.”
  (MBS, 72:32)

• "Before you tell people what you think, ask—almost always before I tell you, I'm just curious to know what do you think about this?"
  (MBS, 73:00)

Useful Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|---------------| | Why advice-giving doesn’t work | 00:58–04:35 | | What is real coaching? | 06:51–10:53 | | Seven essential coaching questions | 17:56–21:59 | | When & how to offer advice | 50:05–54:02 | | Self-coaching: daily practice | 54:02–58:42 | | Worthy goal framework & decision-making | 58:42–67:42 | | Essence of coaching: fierce love, presence | 70:14–72:44 | | The one piece of advice to pass on | 73:00 |

Final Takeaways

• The best leaders, coaches, parents, and partners act out of curiosity, not compulsion to advise.
• True “coaching” can (and should) happen in every context—work, life, family, friendships.
• Great coaching is less about questions and more about genuine presence, fierce heart, and empowering others.
• To grow yourself and your team, ask better questions, listen deeply, and help others discover their own answers.

Learn more, download resources, and access Michael Bungay Stanier’s work at MBS.works

If you take one thing from this episode:
"Before you tell people what you think, ask what they think first."
(MBS, 73:00)