Will Harlow - Over-50s Specialist Physio (1.6M+ YouTube Subscribers) | Why Everything Your Doctor Told You About Aging Is Wrong

Summary

Success Story with Scott D. Clary

Episode: Will Harlow – Over-50s Specialist Physio (1.6M+ YouTube Subscribers) | Why Everything Your Doctor Told You About Aging Is Wrong
Date: May 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Scott D. Clary interviews Will Harlow, a physiotherapist specializing in helping people over 50 regain strength, mobility, and independence. With over 1.6 million YouTube subscribers, Will has become a trusted voice in dispelling aging myths and empowering people to take actionable steps—no matter their age—to improve their health. This conversation challenges conventional wisdom about aging, provides practical strategies for busy professionals, and underscores the profound impact of minimal but consistent resistance training. The discussion centers around Will's new book, "Independence for Life," and his mission to redefine what's possible as we age.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myths of Aging and Muscle Loss

• Muscle Loss Starts Early

  • “The tendency for us when we're a bit younger is to think that losing strength, losing muscle mass, is just something that happens to old people. But the truth is, it starts much earlier.” — Will Harlow [00:56]
  • After age 35, people lose 3–8% of muscle mass per decade if they take no action. This silent decline often goes unnoticed until everyday tasks become difficult. [01:21], [02:55]

• Muscle Loss Compounds Over Time

  • Small decreases each decade add up, dramatically impacting strength and independence by the 60s or 70s. [02:55]

2. The Reality Check: Losing Independence

• From “Annoyance” to True Limitation

  • Most people ignore early warning signs like joint stiffness or minor pains, assuming it’s just age or will go away. But suddenly, inability to get up from the floor or a chair becomes a harsh wake-up call. [04:02] – [07:57]
  • “Helping people to avoid getting to that point is one of my big missions. And the truth of the matter is that it's totally preventable.” — Will Harlow [06:51]

• Independence Loss Is Preventable

  • Three key contributors to losing the ability to get up: limited mobility, pain, and—most importantly—loss of strength. [09:07–10:42]
  • “It's because they've lost their muscle mass and their strength in their legs.” — Will Harlow [10:19]

3. Simple At-Home Functional Tests

• Get-Up Test

  • “You should be able to get down onto the floor from standing, lie back, then get up again, all inside 10 seconds.” — Will Harlow [11:55]
  • Failing this test flags potential deficits in strength or mobility.

• Silver Lining

  • “At any point in your life, there is no such thing as too late when it comes to improving.” — Will Harlow [12:52]

4. Minimal Effective Dose: Building Strength for Busy People

• The 3–2–1 Rule for Busy People

  • 3: Choose three compound exercises (like squats, push-ups, rows)
  • 2: Do them twice per week, 20 minutes per session
  • 1: Progress one aspect (weight, rep, intensity) each week
  • “By far and away, the best place to start is resistance training.” — Will Harlow [16:16]
  • Even with very limited time, this basic routine yields dramatic results, including over 30% strength gains in older adults after 12 weeks. [18:00]

• No Excuses: Home-Based Options

  • Use bodyweight, bags of books, or household objects—no gym required. [17:45]

5. Benefits of Resistance Training Outweigh Cardio Alone

• Strength Improves Everything

  • “Resistance training really is the closest we've got to a magic pill for improving your health.” — Will Harlow [20:03]
  • Impacts muscle mass, bone density, joint flexibility, even brain health (less dementia, anxiety, depression), diabetes, and heart disease. [22:18]
  • “For every 10% drop in your muscle mass index, there's about an 11% increase in your likelihood of all-cause mortality.” [22:18]

• Cardio Is Good—But Not Enough

  • Cardio is good for heart and lungs; resistance training gives added metabolic and skeletal benefits. If you must choose, prioritize resistance training. [23:32]

6. Diet, Sleep, and Consistency

• Protein is Crucial

  • US guidelines now recommend 1.6g/kg/day for older adults. This preserves muscle even during calorie deficits or illness. [28:52]
  • Avoid drastic calorie restriction as you age to prevent muscle loss. [30:18]

• Everyone Needs 7–9 Hours of Sleep

  • The idea that older adults need less sleep is a myth—sleep needs remain constant, though quality may decline with age. [31:44]
  • “99.9% of people need that to stay healthy.” — Will Harlow [31:36]

• Consistency > Perfection

  • The real difference between those who age well and those who don’t is consistency, leading to healthy habits becoming identity. [32:35–33:53]

7. Motivation, Discipline, and Environment

• Find Your “Why”

  • Motivation comes in two forms: toward a positive goal (walking a daughter down the aisle) or away from a negative outcome (avoiding a parent's fate). Both are powerful drivers. [36:33–40:45]
  • “Discipline is a battery; you can’t rely on it daily.” – Overuse leads to willpower depletion. [40:10–40:58]

• Optimize Your Environment

  • Make the desired behavior easy and the undesired behavior hard—lay out workout clothes, remove junk food, use accountability partners. [41:07–42:53]

8. Key Myths About Age and Physical Limitation

• It's Never Too Late

  • Will shares the transformation story of a 94-year-old woman who regained independence and confidence in weeks through simple, consistent exercises. [49:05–52:13]
  • “You can improve at any age… We have tons and tons of evidence.” [49:12–54:05]

• Medical System Constraints

  • Doctors aren’t at fault for telling patients “It’s your age”—they’re constrained by time and resources. Advocate for yourself and seek out specialists who focus on your needs. [54:28–56:26]

9. Reframing Aging: Independence for Life

• Independence = Quality

  • “I define independence as being able to do what you want, when you want, with who you want, for as long as you want.” — Will Harlow [57:28]
  • Healthspan (quality years) is more important than lifespan (number of years). [58:10–59:54]

• Strength: The Foundational Pillar

  • Of strength, bone, balance, and mobility, strength is “the one that holds everything up.” [60:49–61:26]

• What Does True Independence Look Like?

  • It's not about marathons—it's waking up without fear or limitation, playing with grandkids, traveling, or even running half-marathons at 85. [64:17–64:33]

10. Building a Mission-Driven Business

• Filling the Unmet Need

  • Most clinics target sports injuries; Will saw the need to specialize exclusively in the over-50 population. Clear, focused messaging fueled rapid business and audience growth. [66:00–67:24]

• From Sports Physio to Aging Advocate

  • Will left professional football physio behind for more personally meaningful, impactful work helping older adults reclaim independence. [67:46–71:45]

• Viral Success on Non-Sexy, Pragmatic Content

  • “My content goes back to the basics. People don't need a million dollar health routine to live to 2000.” [73:07–74:01]
  • Instead of extremism, Will focuses on actionable, evidence-based, minimum-effective strategies. That authenticity draws his massive following. [76:56–78:32]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Progress at Any Age:
  “At any point in your life, there is no such thing as too late.”
  — Will Harlow [12:52]

• On Prevention:
  “Don't wait for it to go wrong before you do something about it.”
  — Will Harlow [88:47]

• On Consistency and Identity:
  “The people who do really well, they've stayed consistent for such a long time that doing the thing becomes part of their identity.”
  — Will Harlow [32:35]

• On Motivation:
  “Once you can pick something that truly does motivate you, that makes those tough days a lot easier.”
  — Will Harlow [39:30]

• Myth-Busting Aging:
  “People think aging is just a slow decline … Actually, it’s more like long plateaus with sudden drops—often after a sickness or injury. But you can always build yourself back up.”
  — Will Harlow [87:11]

• Quality Over Quantity:
  “Why do you want to live for more years if those years are of really poor quality, if you're in pain, if you can't do what you want to do?”
  — Will Harlow [59:08]

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Actionable Takeaways

Minimum Effective Dose for Lasting Health

• Strength Training: 3 compound exercises, 20 minutes, 2x/week—using bodyweight or simple home objects, not necessarily gym equipment.
• Protein: Aim for ~1.6g/kg/day, especially as you age.
• Sleep: Prioritize 7–9 hours nightly—even more important with age.
• Mobility Check: Do the get-up test monthly—stand, lie back, stand again in under 10 seconds.
• Consistency: Make movement part of your identity; leverage environment and accountability to stay on track.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:56] – Muscle loss myth, how aging starts impacting strength early
• [04:02] – How silent health issues become life-changing limitations
• [07:57] – Mechanics of mobility loss (e.g., inability to get up)
• [11:55] – At-home tests for mobility and functional movement
• [16:16] – Minimal effective dose, 3–2–1 Rule, home-based resistance training
• [20:03] – Benefits of resistance training vs. cardio
• [28:52] – Diet and the importance of protein intake
• [31:44] – Sleep myths for older adults
• [32:35] – Consistency, identity, and building lasting habits
• [36:33] – Motivation and how why-power trumps willpower
• [41:07] – Environmental and social hacks for discipline
• [49:05] – 94-year-old regains independence: a transformation story
• [57:28] – Why “Independence” is the core message of Will’s book
• [64:17] – What independence looks like at 80, 90, or beyond
• [66:00–67:46] – Filling the gap: why specialize in over-50s?
• [71:45–74:01] – From dream job to impactful work: Will’s pivot story
• [87:11] – The myth of inevitable decline in aging, and why prevention at any age matters

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Final Messages

• Start now, even if you feel fine—prevention always beats repair.
• Minimal, consistent action yields transformative results—don’t get lost in complexity.
• Independence, not just longevity, is the real goal.

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Connect with Will Harlow & Resources

• Book: Independence for Life (available everywhere May 26, 2026 & bonuses via Will’s site)
• Website: willharlow.com
• YouTube: Search “Will Harlow”
• Additional Resources & Bonuses: Available with book purchase to help with implementation

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Note: This summary is designed for listeners and non-listeners alike as a comprehensive, actionable guide to the episode’s core wisdom and inspiration.

Transcript

[Scott Clary]

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[Will Harlow]

I think the tendency for us when we're a bit younger is to think that losing strength, losing muscle mass, is just something that happens to old people. But the truth is, it starts much earlier.

[Scott Clary]

Will Harlow has built a reputation by challenging what most people accept. A physiotherapist and founder behind millions of views online, he's helped people reclaim movement, reverse chronic pain, and take control of their bodies again.

[Will Harlow]

We've got some really robust research now that shows that after the age of 35, we lose muscle mass at a rate of between 3 and 8% per decade. If we don't do anything about it, you might be struggling to do something that you always took for granted. The problems I helped them with are things that they probably took for granted their whole lives. Until one day, those silent problems suddenly weren't so silent anymore.

[Scott Clary]

Today, he breaks down how to move without pain, take back control, and challenge everything you've been told about your body. He's showing people what's actually possible.

[Will Harlow]

Quite often, it's pain. But pain. Pain wasn't where it started. It usually started with just a stiff joint, but I'll ignore it. It will get better on its own. And then it doesn't. Now research shows you can make serious progress with 20 minutes a couple of times a week. By far and away, the best place to start is resistance training. Any muscle mass you do add to your body is directly linked to a longer and a healthier life.

[Scott Clary]

So, Will, thank you for coming on. Thank you for coming down to Miami. I want to start it off just speaking about the condition that my audience is in right now. Because my audience, they're, you know, maybe 35 to 45 years old. They're all sitting for 10 plus hours a day. Whether or not they're at an office job or they're building a company. Sometimes they're sitting more, they're sleeping, not great, maybe five, six hours a night. So they're probably all telling themselves that they're fine. What's really happening to them right now?

[Will Harlow]

I think the tendency for us when we're a bit younger is to think that losing strength, losing muscle mass, losing mobility is just something that happens to old people. But the truth is, it starts much earlier. And we've got some really robust research now that shows that after the age of 35, we lose muscle mass at a rate of between 3 and 8% per decade if we don't do anything about it. And that doesn't sound like a lot, but like anything, it compounds. So each decade that goes past, if you lose 8%, 35 to 45, another 8%, 45 to 55, suddenly when you're in your 60s, you might be struggling to do something that you always took for granted. So the thing I focus on, even though I focus on helping people who are a bit older, the problems I help them with are things that they probably took for granted their whole lives. Until one day those silent problems suddenly weren't so silent anymore and have started to cause real impact in their lives.

[Scott Clary]

I think that that's incredibly scary. So you say that 8% isn't significant, but it is, considering that most people don't take their health seriously even at. At 35. So I mean, even their baseline is not significant. So I know I work out more than the average person because I've been into working out and lifting weights and sports since I was a kid. But for the average person, go to the gym a couple times, but they don't have like considerable muscle mass and strength, they just have enough to keep healthy. I also mentioned before, I think my audience in particular, one fallacy that they truly believe is that they can ignore their body in pursuit of the business they're building or the career they're building, and then they'll figure it out later. The people that you sit down with, because I think you work with an older population. So 50, 60, 70, this is what they believe their whole life. And then what is the condition that sort of they find themselves in when they reach out to you like what is their reality? Is it pain? Is it they can't, you know, catch their breath if they play with their kids or their grandkids? Like, what is the reality of somebody who. All the beliefs that I just mentioned, they live those beliefs until they are 60 or 70? Like, what does their life feel like?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, it's a great question. And I think that tendency to go manana, manana with your health is always there, isn't it? Because, you know, we're busy. You might be building a business, you're raising a family. It's like, I don't have time to go to the gym, stay. I don't have time to do what I said I was going to do for my health. I'll do it tomorrow, but then tomorrow becomes the next day and the next day. Now, in terms of what I see, and to be honest, the average age of the person who comes in to see us is 65 to 75. And quite often it's pain. But pain wasn't where it started. It usually started with just a stiff joint. Something doesn't feel quite right, you know, doesn't feel quite as supple as it used to. But I'll ignore it. It will get better on its own, and then it doesn't. Or do you know what? I'm not seeing the same muscle mass in the mirror that I used to see anymore. But don't. It'll be all right. You know, I'll come to it tomorrow. I'll get into the gym tomorrow. But then those things quietly lead to symptoms later that we can feel. So it could be pain. So we see a lot of, you know, knee pains, back pains, hip pains. But it also could be this feeling that independence is slipping away. So one of the big reasons people come to see us is because they said, I'm terrified because I used to be able to get up and down from the floor. And I realized the other day that I was down on the floor and I couldn't get up.

[Scott Clary]

And people that are 65 to 75 are saying this.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, absolutely. Even younger.

[Scott Clary]

That seems very young.

[Will Harlow]

It seems young, but this is the reality. And I had a patient who came to see me a while ago, a lady who was in her late 60s. So she was not an old lady. She was young. She lives alone. She was out in the garden, and she got down onto her hands and knees to pull up some weeds, right? She tried to get back up again and realized she couldn't get up. She was in the house on her own. There was no one Around. So what did she do? She had to crawl back to the house to get her mobile phone from the table at the bottom of the garden to call her neighbor to come over and help her. Now, she wasn't hurt. She was fine, but she was scared because she was caught off guard by this. She thought. I never thought I would be the kind of person that would struggle to do something like this. So helping people to avoid getting to that point is one of my big missions. And the truth of the matter is that it's totally preventable. Like, these things. Getting up and off the ground, getting up and out of a chair without assistance, pretty much anyone can maintain that if they put into action a plan early enough.

[Scott Clary]

What's happening when somebody goes to pick up weeds out of their garden and they can't get up? Like, what is breaking in your body? Because that is horrifying. Like, if that happened to me, I'd be horrified. I'd feel like, you know, I was going to ask you about the title of. Of of your book about independence and independence for life, but now that makes a lot of sense. Just like that quick frame that you just, you. You walk through, I feel like I've. If that happened to me, I feel like I've completely lost control of my entire life. Like, not being able to control your own body is the scariest thing. So when I think about. When I think about. People go into this, this episode, this show, they're listening, like, oh, you know, like, I get mobility and pains in my knees and stuff like that. That. That sucks. But I don't think it really hits as something that's too stressful. It's just an inconvenience or an annoyance people associate with getting older. But this image of, you know, bending over, grabbing weeds and not being able, like, physically not being able to get up, that's actually horrifying to me. I'm sure, to a lot of people anyway. So what's happening when. When, like, what's happening with your body when you can't get up and you can't do the thing that obviously, for the past 60 years of your life was no problem?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, there's usually three things. One of three things that's gone wrong. So the first thing that's gone wrong is the person's lost mobility in one of those key joints. So typically, for that lady, it was her hip or her knee that was causing the problem. For her, it was her knee. She actually just couldn't bend the knee enough to get it underneath her. The knee wasn't painful. It's just that she had. She had some arthritis in there. She was dealing with it. It was just causing stiffness in the mornings. She hadn't realized she actually couldn't bend it much further than 90 degrees to get it underneath her. So she was stuck.

[Scott Clary]

She didn't know.

[Will Harlow]

She didn't know. No, she didn't know. Because you don't have to bend your knee that much just to do your normal daily tasks until you're down on the floor or until you're in a very low chair, so you're caught off guard. Now the second thing that can go wrong, and this links to this, to the loss of mobility, is pain. So sometimes these conditions like arthritis or other injuries can cause pain, and that can strip someone of their ability to do all their normal things just because it hurts too much. But I would say the most serious one and the most insidious one is a loss of strength. And you know this from heading into the gym that, you know, the more you train, the more you exercise, the stronger you get. Well, it's also. It works in reverse. So if you're not doing any of these things, slowly weakness sets in. Muscle mass is lost. But not just muscle mass. It's also strength as an attribute as well. The ability to move your body against gravity. And I've had people who've come in and not necessarily getting up and off the floor has been a problem, but getting in and out of low chairs and they're like, I want to get up, but I just can't have to use my hands or someone has to help me. And it's because they've lost their muscle mass and their strength in their legs.

[Scott Clary]

That's horrifying. So this is a woman by. By an objective standard. Not old at all.

[Will Harlow]

No. And healthy by an objective standard. If you looked at her, you would say she's fine.

[Scott Clary]

So this is as scary, obviously, not as. As the. The end result is, is not as bad, but just as scary as, for example, you know, there's these cases of. Of, like, heart conditions where you never feel any issue. You. And then all of a sudden you drop dead at like 45 of a heart attack. And nothing felt wrong with your body. This is what it's giving. Like, this is the same. Obviously, you're not dying, God forbid, but you don't see anything wrong, you don't feel anything wrong. And then all of a sudden you try to do something that you could do your whole life and you can't do it anymore. So that's scary because someone's like, well, how do I know if my body's degrading? If is. Is there a test or something that people can do to just see if they're moving in the right or the wrong direction? Is it like an mri, a CT mobility, like, what's the signal that people should look for that? Again, if right now they're listening to this and they do this thing, they're like, oh shit. Yeah, I haven't been paying enough attention. I can clearly tell that things are not as good as they used to be, but I haven't noticed. I've never done this one test before.

[Will Harlow]

Sure, absolutely. There's actually a few things they can do and they all screen different attributes in different parts of the body. So I'll give you a couple. What I'll first say is you, you don't really need a DEXA scan or an MRI to see these things. Just look at your function with these tests and that will tell you everything you need to know. So some of the tests I like to tell people just up and down from the floor test, right? And the way this works is you start standing, you get down to the floor however you want to get down there and you lie flat on your back and then you sit up and get up however you want to get up and you get to a full standing position. Now you want to time yourself from top to bottom to back up again. And you should be able to do that in less than 10 seconds. Okay? So this is a really clear test people can do at home. Now if it takes you longer than 10 seconds, you're probably lacking mobility or strength somewhere in that full body unit. And the good news is those attributes can be trained and regained at any

[Scott Clary]

point in your life.

[Will Harlow]

At any point in your life, there is no such thing as too late

[Scott Clary]

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So that person that I first mentioned, the person who's, you know, sitting at their desk.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

At a corporate job or just at their home. Like right there in the corner. I'm sitting there working all day. What should they start doing if they're not actively going to the gym? And then I'm going to ask you another question too, about people that are active if you're going to the gym, but maybe not doing the right thing. So the person is doing nothing like they have been. Okay, because I hear this a lot. I hear people especially. I've had people on this podcast say,

I'll worry about working out later.

I'm focused on making money now. I'M building my business, I have no time. That can be a whole conversation about priorities. And I'm a big believer that if you're in build mode, you should, yeah, carve out time for other things, relationships, you know, physical health, mental health, for sure. But say somebody is just in build mode because that happens and they're like, you know, waking up at 6am, going to bed at 2, waking up, going to bed, just work. Where do they start?

[Will Harlow]

So before I tell them where to start, what I would try and do is challenge that assumption that if you're in build mode, that's all you should be focusing on. Because from my own personal experience, I've found that if I'm in build mode, if I still manage to find 30 to 40 minutes to work out on that day, the rest of the day is actually more productive than if I just had my head down the whole day. So why are you just telling yourself a story that you don't have time for it because you need to be so productive as an excuse to avoid it? Or is it really the case that you don't have the time? Now, if you can find 20 or 30 minutes per day, there's so much you can do with that short period of time. So this is another myth. People think, well, I don't have an hour and a half available today, so there's just no point me doing anything. Now, research shows that's not the case, that you can make serious progress with 20 minutes a couple of times a week. And if that is all you have available to you, by far and away, the best place to start is resistance training. Now, I have something I like to tell busy professionals who come to see me called the three, two, one rule. And this is a really simple way to start moving the body against resistance to make progress. Before I tell you more about the 3, 2, 1 rule, it doesn't mean you have to get in a gym either. You can do resistance training at home with just your body weight or a bag filled up with books or a couple of heavy things that you find in the garden. You don't need a gym membership form work.

[Scott Clary]

We all figured this out during COVID too, by the way.

[Will Harlow]

And it works like people were staying fit. Some people got fitter than they ever had been in their gardens. Right.

[Scott Clary]

I was lifting up, like, lifting up, like, the 24 packs of, like, water bottles.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

And like, I was doing the most ridiculous.

[Will Harlow]

Like, you had to get so creative. But it works, right? Because you're still moving against resistance. But once you've figured out that you, you know, you don't need a gym and you can do some stuff at home. The three, two, one rule is you pick three exercises and we try and pick something that's a compound movement each time. So a compound movement is anything that works multiple muscle groups and moves multiple joints in the body. Okay. The two part of it is you just do it twice a week. So it will take you 20 minutes twice a week. And then the one part is each week you do it, you try and progress one thing. So it could be a tiny bit more weight or one extra rep each, each set that you do, or you slow the movement down and try and improve your technique. Now you might be thinking, is that enough to make progress time and time again? The science shows it is. And just dedicating that twice a week session for a group of older people, in one study, they did it for 12 weeks. They improved their leg strength by more than 30% in that 12 week period from the starting point. So it's enough to make serious progress.

[Scott Clary]

So this could be push ups, this could be something where you're working out your back, doing squats, just no weight beside your desk.

[Will Harlow]

100%.

[Scott Clary]

What is that actually doing to your body? So obviously muscle mass, bone strength as well. Is that really what is it is joint, is there like what is the things that break down. So you, you know, you mentioned if you don't do any of this. Yes, your muscle mass deteriorates, but that's not the only thing obviously that impacts your, your health and wellness. Like if you, if you can't move your knee and you have mobility issues. Yeah, there's muscle in there, but there's other things that are causing that. So what are all the things that helps? Because if I'm thinking about from like a working out perspective. So you have muscle mass, you have, I don't like, listen, I know, I know enough to be dangerous, but not as much as you by any means. So obviously your, your, your joints as well, your bone and your bone density. Is that. So what are all the things that this actually does, even just doing the 20 minutes a day?

[Will Harlow]

All of the above. So I always prioritize resistance training because it really is the closest we've got to a magic pill for improving your health. So we know that resistance training improves strength and it improves muscle mass. That's a given. But you're absolutely right, bone density as well, particularly if you're training with slightly heavier weights. Okay. Now one of the other things that people often tell me or Ask me is that if I'm doing all this resistance training, do I need to do lots of stretching as well? We used to think it was the case that the more you trained, the stiffer you got. Okay. Because, you know, muscle bound, we've all heard that term. It's actually the opposite. So research shows that training with resistance is as effective for improving the flexibility of your muscles as a stretching program.

[Scott Clary]

Really?

[Will Harlow]

Yes. But with the resistance training, you also get the added benefits of the muscle, the strength and the bone density as well. So you can almost improve all your, you know, the entire musculoskeletal system with this one practice. The other thing it does is it improves the health of your joints. So we've got certain substances inside our joints. We've got cartilage, of course, we've also got this fluid inside as well, which is almost like the body's natural WD40. And resistance training increases the health of the cartilage and it also adds to that fluid. So you've got better movement of your joints, symptoms of arthritis drop and you're less likely to develop these jointy type issues in the future as well.

[Scott Clary]

So when people are doing this, first of all, it's great if you look good, but this is really not the point at all. This is not the point. The goal is to just live a healthy life. So if you're saying that if you do 20 minutes, what was it? So 20 minutes twice a week, and

[Will Harlow]

this is bare minimum. So this is like minimum effective dose.

[Scott Clary]

Yes.

[Will Harlow]

So I'm not saying this is like the maximum you should do, but if you're strapped for time, this is a great place to start. And then you can add in either another session or you can extend your two sessions to 30, 40 minutes each time.

[Scott Clary]

And this, this would, if you, if you Fast forward a 30 year old who starts doing this, what does their life look like at 60, 70, 80, 90? If they're living that long, you know, hopefully everyone lives to 150. But what does their life actually looks like?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, 100%. So I want to just come back to what you said before about, you know, we're not doing this because of the way we look. Right. And you will get improvements in the mirror if you do this as well. But of course that's not the primary benefit, it's almost a secondary benefit. However, any muscle mass you do add to your body is directly linked to a longer and a healthier life. So muscle mass itself. So the amount of muscle tissue on your body is independently associated with Just about every positive health outcome. So less diabetes, less heart disease, even less anxiety and depression, less dementia. All of these things are associated with having more muscle mass. And it also works in reverse. So for every 10% drop in your muscle mass index, there's about an 11% increase in your likelihood of any. Of all cause mortality. So dying from any cause, which is pretty scary, right?

[Scott Clary]

Horrifying. What, so what's the. All the other forms of, of, you know, working out. So biking, playing sports, going for runs, all these different things like, like, like pure aerobic exercise. Where do they fit into this?

[Will Harlow]

They're great for your heart's health and the health of your lungs, and they're great for almost like your engine. So they're important as well. But resistance training gives you some of that too, actually probably in more measures than most people assume. So if you are strapped for time, it's. Resistance training has got to take priority in my mind.

[Scott Clary]

Crazy, because I don't, I think, Sorry, I mean, I'm just thinking about the people that I know that are a little bit older. They always focus on cardio, mostly cardio. And then we'll get, you know, I don't go to the gym as much, but at least I go for runs or walks or biking or something. You see that a lot.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, definitely. And this is the thing, like, there's not many people who come in to see us who are doing a resistance training practice, but a lot of them are running, a lot of them are cycling. But they have these joint problems. They're still weak in their legs. You know, they, they're struggling with their upper body stuff as well. And the cardio aspect is great for your health. Like, I'm not saying don't do it, it's fantastic, but it doesn't help as much with bone density, certainly doesn't help as much with muscle mass, and it certainly isn't enough to keep you strong. So if you're, if you're trying to become the ultimate human and you want the full spectrum of health, you need both. But if you can only prioritize one, I think resistance training wins out every time.

[Scott Clary]

Do you ever wonder why people gravitate more towards cardio than resistance training?

[Will Harlow]

I think it's probably just a, a cultural thing. You know, so many years that we've thought that, you know, that's the best thing you can do for your heart and your health, and that's what keeps people fit in inverted commas. And if you wind back to the 70s and the 80s, all the messaging Especially for women, was you need to get toned by running and cycling and doing all this cardio. We now know that not only was that not helping them with the things that they wanted, like looking more toned, it was in excess. It was probably even damaging bone density.

[Scott Clary]

In excess.

[Will Harlow]

In excess. Doing too much. Because then you had these people that were doing, you know, six, seven days a week of hard cardio, and that was affecting them hormonally. They were getting actual muscle and bone tissue breakdown from doing too much.

[Scott Clary]

That's so interesting.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah. So I think we've come a long way, but particularly in the population I treat. Yeah, cardio is still way more popular than resistance training.

[Scott Clary]

I mean, I, I mean, you have exposure to way more of a sample size than I do. But just like anecdotally, the people that I know that are older, they all do cardio and they always make excuses as to why they don't go to the gym. Like, oh, well, at least I go, you know, for runs. Yeah, very. So I've always. I can't remember where I heard this. The, the, the. The number one predictor of longevity is your VO2 max and your ability to basically lift something heavy. But I think that is misunderstood as, you know, weightlifting doesn't contribute to my VO2 max at all, does it? It does. And, and actually, let me rephrase because I go to the gym and there's definitely ways that I can work out and lift where I am not out of breath. And then there's ways that I work it where I'm definitely out of breath. And I guess really the answer is like, what are your goals? But because a lot of strength coaches and, and, and lifting coaches will not tell you to, like, lift in a cadence that's going to elevate your heart rate to the same degree as like a low state cardio. They'll say they take, like, long breaks and stuff. But would you say for the average person, it actually makes a little bit of sense to increase the. I don't know, increase the, the, the. The. What's, what's the word I'm looking for? The tempo. Yeah, that's a perfect word of your lifting.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

I think you get both benefits out of sort of like one gym session.

[Will Harlow]

I think it's good to mix and match and to have a variety. So there's definitely some benefits of increasing the tempo and fitting more into less time, not least because you get the same amount of work done in less time. So if you've got your busy professional, like a hit workout or something like that, which involves some element of lifting weights, is a brilliant way to tackle both things at the same time. But the, the positive improvements in VO2 max are underestimated just from the typical, you know, three sets of ten type gym work that will still improve your heart and lung health to a degree. Not quite as much as, you know, the hard cardio, but you still do get that benefit. And people that resistance train, often independent of any other type of exercise that they do, they do have lower rates of cardiovascular disease, they do have better blood pressure, they, they do have better blood sugar control. So all of these things that are big health risks are definitely controlled to a degree by resistance training alone.

[Scott Clary]

Other things that I think people understand now are very beneficial to their health. So I'm just curious about what else you recommend in terms of diet. Like a moderate protein or a higher protein, obviously a certain amount of sleep as well. Like what are the other things? You can just go through a list so people understand the things that they should pay attention to based on, like all the people you've worked with. If you're going to talk to a 25 or 30 or 35 year old saying, hey, this is how much you should sleep, this is what you should generally eat, this is what the rest of your life should look like. On top of the resistance training, what would be the advice?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, so I keep it very general when it comes to diet, because I'm not necessarily the diet guy, I'm more of a movement guy. But when it comes to diet, one of the big building blocks that we know is so important now is protein intake. And I was really pleased to see that quite recently the US government changed their guidelines to increase what they recommend the population should get in terms of daily protein intake from 0.8 grams per kilogram per day, which is tiny amount, up to 1.6. So they essentially doubled it. Now this is very much evidence based, we can see it in the research that people that have this higher protein intake, it is sparing of muscle. So even if you're in a calorie deficit or you're unwell or you're not able to train, if you have a higher protein intake, this muscle loss with age we call sarcopenia is much less. And then if you combine it with resistance training, it's like really pouring gas on the fire, right? It makes it much more effective, you'll build more muscle and you'll stay stronger. So hitting those daily protein targets is really, really important. Then I'd also say that the older someone gets, the more important it is not to cut your calories too low. There's a lot of diet culture around and it often revolves around these crash diets, doesn't it? Of people saying, right, I'm going to be super restrictive for six weeks.

[Scott Clary]

Well, even with peptides now, people are trying to figure a way to feel no hunger ever.

[Will Harlow]

So absolutely. So I mean, this is one of the things that's come out with these GLP1s is the fact that people are so effective that people aren't hungry, they're not hitting their protein intake and they're actually losing a lot of muscle alongside the fat too. But you can have the same effects from a diet if you're too aggressive with it. So not dropping into too dramatic of a deficit is really important for maintaining that muscle mass. So kind of that's as far as I go with diet and as much whole foods as opposed to artificial foods, that's also really vital as well to keep you healthy when it comes to sleep. There's a weird myth out there that the older we get, the less sleep we need. That's actually not true. So everyone needs seven to nine hours of sleep each night, no matter your age. Like if you're a teenager, actually you need slightly more. But any adult 7 to 9 hours, 99.9% of people need that to stay healthy. There's some strange genetic variants where they can run for life off like five hours of sleep. That's not the norm. And if you are running off that much, chances are your health is impaired in some way. Now One of the catch 22s of that, a cruel irony is the older you get, the more sleep interruptions there are, sleep quality drops. You have to work harder to get that good quality sleep.

[Scott Clary]

But still, obviously I didn't know that was a myth that I didn't know that people believe that, that you needed less sleep as you get older. But I actually have heard this from people.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

Because I think there's a variety of things that wake you up at night, whether or not you have to go to the bathroom more or your kids are waking you up. Like there's always something, right? But I have heard that from guys that were like 65. I remember this the second you said that. This one guy, six out. I used to work with this guy, I was very early in my career and he's like, yeah, I sleep like three, four hours a night. And to me that was just like, like mind blowing. And he's like, no, no, no, I'm fine. I. I feel like he's not fine. I feel like he's not fine at all. But that was like just a norm.

[Will Harlow]

You just don't know what's going on underneath the hood.

[Scott Clary]

But he was okay with that, or he thought he was okay with that. Interesting. Your patients who age well versus the ones who don't. Outside of doing all these act things like, you know, taking action and taking your. Your health into your own hands and resistance training and sleep and diet, what's one belief that actually separates them?

[Will Harlow]

I think it comes down to consistency. And the people who do well initially and then they drop off or they have recurrent problems that they're kind of making progress with, and then they go back to square one. It often comes down to not being able to be consistent. And the people who do really well, they've stayed consistent for such a long time that doing the thing becomes part of their identity. And I think this is a really important point for, for anyone who's trying to stick with anything. The longer you're able to push through that first 6, 12, 18 weeks where it feels really tough, the more chance you have of this becoming just something you do. Like, I don't know about you, Scott, but I guess now that you've been to the gym for such a long time, you probably don't have to wake up and go, oh, should I go to the gym today? I'm not sure if I feel like it.

[Scott Clary]

No, not at all.

[Will Harlow]

You just go, right?

[Scott Clary]

It's. For me, it's relaxing.

[Will Harlow]

Exactly.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah.

[Will Harlow]

And it's probably just become part of who you are. And you say, I am the kind of person who does this. Now, there's something really deep in there that is one of the secrets to staying healthy in just about any pursuit is if you can make something that's good for you part of your identity. I really do believe that's one of the key ingredients of sticking with something even when it initially feels tough.

[Scott Clary]

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Like, I think a lot of people know what they should do, but they're not doing it. Like why is that? Is it, is it they can't make it past the first six months? Is it the manana mana later, later, later problem? Like what is the thing that's stopping the smart person from doing the thing they should do if, say they believe, which I think majority of them do, that health is important? I'm sure there's some. I've spoken to a couple guys that for some reason they truly believe that, you know, they're almost invincible and they'll figure it out later. But outside of that edge case personality, I think most people understand the benefits of health. Wellness, physical training, good diet, good sleep. Smart people, successful people figured out the rest of their life. And then there's one part they just what? What's Going on.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah. And before we set the cameras rolling, we were talking about, you know, how it's. There's no shortage of information. So we're in the golden age now. We've got, you know, the entire Internet of information now. We've got AI to organize it all for us. It's like no one ever has an excuse now to not almost know what to do. But sticking with it is still just as hard as it's always been. So why is that? Well, I like to break it down for the people who are struggling to stick to something, and I'll include myself in that as well, because I have things where I struggle to stay consistent. And I like to break down two driving forces into motivation and discipline. And I think they're very separate. So motivation I like to think of as your reason why. So why you do something and you can have a positive motivation, which is driving towards something, and you can have negative motivation, which is running away from something or driving away from something. So to give you a couple of examples, I had a patient who come to see me who was in his mid-70s, and he said, will, I can't walk very well and I've just found out my daughter is getting married at the end of next year and my one goal is to be able to walk her down the aisle without my stick. So he had a very strong forward pushing motivation. Like he had a goal he wanted to hit. So for him, every time it felt tough or he thought, I can't be bothered to do these exercises today, he had that thing in his mind and he was like, this is important, the stakes are high. Now, on the other side, I had a lady who came in to see me. She had pretty mild knee pain, it wasn't that bad, but she goes, I'm coming to see you now because I've watched what happened to my mum and she developed knee pain like this at the same age I am now. And 20 years later she's in a wheelchair. And I don't want that to happen to me. So I am doing everything I can to avoid ending up in that same way. So she had motivation as well, but her why was moving away from something. Now, both of those are equally powerful, but I think it's really important to define what the why is for you. And it's going to be completely unique, it's going to be completely individual. And once you can pick something that truly does motivate you, that makes those tough days a lot easier. Then on the other side we've got discipline as well, and discipline is a separate force. And I like to think of discipline as a force that's there when that motivation that why? Doesn't feel so prominent in your mind. Because we're all going to have days where we wake up and go, do you know what? I know this is really important, but I just don't feel like it today. You want motivation, discipline. Sorry, to just fill that gap on those tough days to get you across the line. But you can't use it every day because it's like a battery. And there's research that shows that the more you challenge someone's discipline, the more likely it is to wear down and eventually to break. So there's some cool studies out there on offices, you know, when people bring in cakes and donuts and things like that. And there's a strong correlation between the number of times the person has to walk past the cakes and how likely they are to pick one of them up when they said no the first time. The more times you have to walk past it, the more likely you are to pick one up. And it's because every time you go past it, you're using a little bit of that discipline to say, no, I'm not going to do it, I'm not going to do it. Oh, go on then.

[Scott Clary]

And eventually you break.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, but it's the same for us when it comes to exercise and sticking with anything, really. It might be working on your business, you waking up, and it's like, got this thing I need to do. I know it's going to be really unpleasant. I don't want to do it. Let's just use a bit of that discipline to force myself to do it. But if you have to do that every morning, it's not going to be sustainable. It's going to run out eventually. So I like to think of those two as a pair. So the motivation and the discipline. Motivation should be the primary force. When it's not there, use some of that battery in the form of discipline. But if you're always relying on the battery, eventually you're going to run out.

[Scott Clary]

So if that's the case, what is the answer then, so that you don't have to rely on discipline? Is it environment? Like, what is it? Because even you mentioned that one story, or the analogy of walking past the cake every single day. So the answer in my mind would be, well, if there's no cake, then you don't have to deplete your discipline. But is that really it? Is it just the environment you create, that sort of Encourages the action without discipline or motivation.

[Will Harlow]

There's a few things you can do if you, if you've got your why, your motivation and you understand that you can't use discipline all the time. And there's still a gap there, right? Number one is environmental. So absolutely. And you want to think of environmental in two directions. So you want to make it harder for yourself to do the thing that you want to avoid and easier for yourself to do the thing that you want to do. So a great example I give to my patients is if you want to get up in the morning and go for a walk, because you said you were going to do it and it's important for whatever we're trying to fix. Tidy away everything in your room, all the clothes, except for your walking outfit. So your walking boots, your socks, your shorts, your T shirt that's laid out at the end of the bed and you've made it harder for yourself to put on anything that isn't that. It's the same as when people are on a diet. The best thing you can do is just get rid of all the junk food from the fridge. Even if you say to yourself, I'm still allowed junk food, I just have to go to the shop and get it. Half the time you'll go, can't be bothered, you know, I've got healthy food in the fridge, I'll just have that. So it works really, really well. Another thing you can do is lean on other people. So this is vital and I try and use this a lot with my patients. It's one of the reasons now in my business, we're really leaning into in person events and trying to get our patients and our online members together in person so they can meet each other, talk about their shared goals. It's almost like having an accountability partner. So I'm not sure about research on this, but I just know from my own life that if I've had an important goal, if I know I've got a friend or someone else who is working towards something similar, even if it's not the same, and you agree to check in regularly with each other, the chances you're going to stick to your thing are so much higher. And I think we can leverage that too. It's almost like positive social pressure.

[Scott Clary]

I like that.

[Will Harlow]

Because if your friend's texting you, going, did you do the thing today? And you're like, I should have, but I didn't. You know, there's only so many times you want to send that text back.

[Scott Clary]

Of course. No, I like That I like that a lot. The stat you mentioned at the beginning, the 8% muscle loss per decade. How do you make somebody feel that stat and understand that stat if they won't really physically feel it for 15 or 20 years?

[Will Harlow]

It's a really good question. It's such a tough thing to do because it's one of those things that it doesn't feel urgent until it is. So I like to frame it with people as, like, what would you like to be able to do that you can't do right now? So come at it from a positive angle. Find something that it might be. You know, I'd like to be able to lift up my grandkids. I'd like to be able to, you know, lift the grandkids in 15 years. And you just make them aware that if they're on. If they continue on the same trajectory that they're on now, then that actually might not be a reality unless something is put in place. It's a really tricky one, though, because, like, as humans, we are programmed really to look at the most urgent thing, the most immediate thing. And if that's not forthcoming, it's tough. It takes discipline. It takes, you know, knowing what life's going to look like in the future. And, yeah, there's no easy answer to that one.

[Scott Clary]

There's no easy answer. Obviously, you have the science and the data and you have the case studies to show why it's important.

[Will Harlow]

It only goes so far, though, doesn't it, if you don't feel it in your own body?

[Scott Clary]

Yeah, it's true. I'm trying to think about. I mean, it's interesting to me because, like, health and wellness has always been such an important part of my life. I couldn't imagine my life without it. But I know that that's not the reality for most people. I mean, I think that my evolution of. Of health, wellness, working out started from when I was playing tennis at a young age, and I played every sport under the sun. So it was always part of my. And then, you know, I used to play a lot of hockey. It's very cliche. I'm Canadian. And if you aren't drafted and you don't have a future getting paid to play hockey, by the time you're, like, 16, you're like, okay, well, I got to, like, figure out, like, a real job and. And then. But I didn't want to. And then I didn't want to just let that athleticism die. So you just sort of maintain it with the gym through your whole life. And it just becomes part of your identity, your personality. But I know for a lot of people it hasn't been their whole life or they've let it. They were, most people were athletic at a younger age. They participated in some sort of sport, organized or otherwise. And then by the time, you know, work happens and you get busy and, and then you feel like you can't get back to where you were before and you try to go to the gym and your body doesn't work the way it used to and then you give up. But, but you're saying that, listen, even this incremental amount of athleticism and, and resistance training will still make your life incredibly better. So like don't, don't worry about the fact that if you took 15 years off and you go back to the gym, you can't bench what you could bench when you were, you know, 18 years old, 20 years old. That's not the point.

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Rules and restrictions may apply and I think that's what screws up a lot of people. They think, well what's the point? I know you have a story that you speak about. I want you to tell the story to the audience about the 94 year old who also said what's the point? And basically didn't think there was anything that they could do for their, for their health and well being. But this to me I thought was very interesting. So you worked with this 94 year old that were basically going to give up and then like a lot changed in their life in sort of a one month, four week period.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, I mean there's been lots of stories like this.

[Scott Clary]

That's old, that's very, that's a very old person. So.

[Will Harlow]

And people are surprised by this because even people in their 60s and their 70s say oh surely it's too late. But it's absolutely not too late. And we have tons and tons of evidence that this is you. You can improve at any age. You can improve muscle, you can improve strength, you can regain mobility, you can't always eliminate pain, but you can improve those attributes which usually has a positive impact on Pain as well. So, I mean, this story in particular. So I had a lady who came to see me, she was 94 years old, as you said, she was unable to walk without assistance. So she came in, her husband brought her in. Every time, she almost didn't come at all because she was scared of just being told one more time that this is just your age. What do you expect? Do you know what I mean? What do you expect with 94 years old?

[Scott Clary]

She was scared. She was just going to like her.

Her.

Her belief was that it was too late and she didn't want to hear that her belief was true.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah. To hear it again because she'd been told by doctors, she'd been told by other physios.

[Scott Clary]

She's tried, She's.

[Will Harlow]

She's tried things. And this is not, you know, not at 94, but earlier in life and probably in her 80s, she'd had pain, she had had weakness, she was losing her ability to, to walk well and she'd gone to seek help. And people have given it like a token try, but it was like, oh, well, I guess this is just it for you now. And I think over time she just, she just didn't want to hear it one more time that nothing was possible. So she'd given up. Now, something obviously in either my content or a friend had told her about me, something spoke to her and she thought, I'm going to give it one more go. So the bravery to do that was massive. But she was brought in by her husband. She had pain in the knees, she was weak, she couldn't get out of a chair without assistance. But we started from where she was. So we started with some very gentle, just seated exercises that she could do at home. Just little and often just getting her moving. And even though she didn't feel a huge change in that first week, it was like something was starting to move. You know, the joints that hadn't moved for a while were feeling a little bit more supple and she was starting to get confidence in controlling those legs again. Came in the next time, there was a bit of progress there, like she could walk a few extra steps without help. She came in the week after and suddenly it was like, well, I'm hardly helping you out of this chair now. And I was there for support, but it was her doing all of the work. And then a few weeks down the line, I mean, four weeks, there was a change, but it was about eight, 10 weeks time she came in, no husband in sight. He's waiting in the car. So she'd walked all the way in, she was beaming. And that fear of falling that she'd had the whole time, that was much reduced. She still had the knee pain, but it was under control and she got her life back.

[Scott Clary]

Why were you able to do this when she had obviously actually taken effort and gone to other people before and they weren't able to do anything? What was the difference in what you, in what you know and what you teach and what you, you help people with?

[Will Harlow]

I just don't give up on people. I'm not that special when it comes to physio. Like, I'm, I'm an okay physio. Right. I know my way around the human body, but I don't have crazy exercises that no one else has. I don't have weird techniques and I don't have magic hands. All right? But I don't give up on people. And I think that approach just gives people hope when they didn't have it before. So I've tried to work out why, you know, so many people have been drawn to the content I've made. And like, I look at my content sometimes and I'm like, that video is not even that good and it's got like a million views. But I think if you look at, you know, the way I talk, I think what's clear is that I'm always trying to give people that hope because I truly believe it. And I don't just believe it because I've seen it. I believe it because the evidence is there to show that people can improve at any age. And just on the plane over here, I always get like a recent research digest to read every week. So what's come out? And I found a study where a group of 90 plus year old nursing home residents were given a leg strengthening program for eight weeks. Weeks, Right. So most of these people are not moving.

[Scott Clary]

Right.

[Will Harlow]

They're sat in a chair. And in eight weeks, the average improvement in leg strength was 175%. And they're in their 90s. And we're believing this myth that once you get past 65, nothing can be done. It's just not true. Like, it's, it's just not true. So my biggest goal is try and bust these myths.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah.

[Will Harlow]

And give people hope that, you know, no matter where they are now, there's still hope.

[Scott Clary]

The body is incredible.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

The human body is absolutely incredible. So I like, again, I'm not, I'm not that age, so I haven't had these conversations with my doctor. But is that the Reality for most people that, you know, they go to their GP and they're like, well, there's not much you can do at this age.

[Will Harlow]

I don't want to give GPs a bad name because there's some amazing GPs, amazing doctors, and I think it really does depend on who you see or what's the myth from an NHS background. So our big National Health service in the uk, you go and see your doctor, they've got a total allocated time of 10 minutes to go and get you, welcome you in, bit of small talk, ask about the problem and then write up all your notes. It's not enough. Right. So I think what's happening is if someone's coming in and the GP thinks this seems unrealistic, it's easier for me to just say, what do you expect? You know, most people are in this position.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah.

[Will Harlow]

So I think that could be sometimes the go to or perhaps the, the person who's delivering the advice just doesn't know what's possible sometimes. And what I would also say is to get people to the point where they're improving, it's often not easy. It takes a lot of work, it takes planning, it takes trying to motivate the person. And quite frankly, a lot of places that help people in this population are just not set up with the time and the resources to do that.

[Scott Clary]

The goal is not to hate on gps that are incredible people. But I think that, listen, I'm a big fan of advocating for yourself and I feel like sometimes the traditional medical system that we all take part in, and I mean, I'm Canadian, so very similar to the uk, a little bit different in the us, but even in the us, like sometimes I have to go in and tell them what I need. Even in Canada, I have to go in and tell them what I need and push and push and push. And you're right. In like a 10 minute, 15 minute visit with my family doctor, they're not going to be able to do everything that you would be able to do for a person spending hours with them, obviously. So it's not like it's not malicious, it's just there's real limitations.

[Will Harlow]

100 agree. And I always say to my team, like, how lucky are we that we actually get to spend 12, 15, 20 hours with someone? So we see them right through the journey. The doctor gets 10 minutes, like you can't compare. So they're structurally not able to help people with these kinds of problems, these chronic long term things as we are. So it's absolutely no hate and no shade thrown on doctors. They're doing an unbelievable job. And they're trained to pick up things that are gonna shorten someone's life. Right. And fix those things. If it's perceived as just a quality of life thing, I think that gets knocked down to second tier priority sometimes just because of the pressures they're under.

[Scott Clary]

So your book, congratulations, Independence for Life. So that launches May 26th. So when people are listening to this, they'll be able to go get the book. Now it's interesting because your book is entitled Independence for Life, Not Strength for Life, not Mobility for Life. Why independence?

[Will Harlow]

I think independence is one of the most important things that we take for granted. And I define independence as being able to do what you want, when you want, with who you want for as long as you want. Right. Now, who doesn't want independence if you define it like that? And the reason I call it independence for life is because independence is a catch all term for strength, for mobility, for skeletal health, for balance, for confidence. All of these things fall under that umbrella. And the goal of the book is to give people all the tools they need to achieve what they want to achieve with those attributes and to maintain the ability to stay independent for as long as they can.

[Scott Clary]

And you. This is interesting because I hear this a lot. It's not just about what's the actual word? I wrote it down here. It's not just about living long. It's like living a long, healthy life. I think the word is lifespan. Yeah. Is that the proper word that people use now? Life or health span? I can't remember what the term is.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, health span, I would say.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah. So lifespan is how long you live and then health span is how healthy those years are. Because we are getting older, we do live longer. Right. But I mean, not to get too personal, but I've seen grandparents in my family, the last few years of their life are not great for a variety of reasons, some of them being their body, some of them being their mind as well. So independence is not just independence now. It's independence all the way through to the, to the true end of your life and hopefully not losing that independence ahead of time.

[Will Harlow]

100 and that especially nowadays, we're obsessed with this idea of longevity, aren't we? So living longer, adding more years to your life. But I would argue, why do you want to live for more years if those years are of really poor quality, if you're in pain, if you can't do what you want to do, if you're weak, if you're relying on help from other people just to do normal, basic daily things, to me, that's no quality. So for me, independence catches people in those last few years and says, rather than helping you to live longer, let's just help you add quality back to those years. But the process doesn't start at the end of life. It starts much earlier. And the earlier you start, the more chance you have of maintaining that quality for longer.

[Scott Clary]

That's also important. So even things that are not physical, like muscular, skeletal, joint related, you even mentioned, like resistance training, can improve or, or delay dementia. Like these are other cardiovascular issues. Like everything that makes again, the last four or five years of your life truly difficult to the point where sometimes, I mean, like, God forbid, you know, with, with, with family, it's like those last four years, it is a burden on them, on other family members. It's not like a, it's not a fun last four years by any measure. You mentioned four pillars, so strength, bone, balance and mobility. Yeah, I know you call them four pillars. So you may tell me, Scott, that's a stupid question, but is there one that is more important than the other or one that you don't have to focus on as much?

[Will Harlow]

Is a really good question. And I would say strength is the most important because as we've discussed, if you can improve your strength, you're also going to get more mobile. You're also going to improve your balance because being strong in your legs is a big part of staying on your feet. And you're also going to improve your bone and joint health as well. So if you could only prioritize, one is strength all day long, the others are equally important underneath. But working on any one of those other things in isolation is not going to improve your strength, whereas working on strength improves everything. So that is almost like even though it's four pillars, that's the one that holds everything else up more than the others.

[Scott Clary]

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With Indeed, you work with a whole bunch of people who do have true independence. Like, what. What does their life look like at 80, 90 years old? Like, what are. What are we aiming for here? It's not to run a marathon. It's not to hit your, you know, one rep max on a bench. Like, what does true independence look like? If you were going to say, hey, you're 35 year, you're 35 now. This is what I want your life to look like. If you listen to what I'm talking about and what I'm teaching and you

[Will Harlow]

say it's not to run a marathon. I sometimes have patients who do incredible things in their 80s that. We had a gentleman in my online program who just wrote into the community area saying he'd just run a half marathon at 85. Right. How awesome is that?

[Scott Clary]

That is very cool, actually.

[Will Harlow]

But, yeah, that's not the norm, right? This is not the norm. I would say that the benefits people get from following these things are to just enjoy life. Right. To be able to do the things you want to do, to not have to wake up and say, I shouldn't do that because of my knee, or I can't do that anymore because I don't trust my legs. It's having that confidence in your body's ability to keep you safe and to keep you moving for as long as you want.

[Scott Clary]

I'm curious about how you got into this niche. So from what I understand, every clinic in your town in. In Farnham at the time, Right. I think now you're in Surrey, same place.

[Will Harlow]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Scott Clary]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, I'm sorry. That's my. So in Farnham, every. Every clinic was positioning as like, a sports injury clinic. The majority. Is that because soccer is very popular or like, what's a football? Football is very popular. Like, what's the reason why everything's a sports injury clinic in Farnham?

[Will Harlow]

It's always baffled me. I think it's just because people think it's going to be more fun and more interesting working with sports people. But the thing that makes me laugh is the top, top, top sports people have got their own physios.

[Scott Clary]

They definitely do a club, of course.

[Will Harlow]

So then the other clinics are scrapping over a very small population of people, like the weekend warrior types.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah.

[Will Harlow]

So they're all fighting over this tiny, tiny group of people who do need treatment, but not as badly as the group of people that I've been helping.

[Scott Clary]

So. So you were truly like, like one of the few clinics that opened for an older age physio.

[Will Harlow]

I've never seen another clinic that explicitly specializes in people over the age of 50, which I think is mad. But one of the differences we did is there are, there are clinics where if you look at their marketing, you can say, okay, that's clearly targeted at the older person. So similar to us. But from the outset, when I set up my business, I was 100% vocal and very clear about who the person was that I'd set this up for. So in big letters across the top of the website, still there now we help people over 50 to rebuild strength, regain mobility, get off pain pills and live a life that they enjoy. So right from the outset was very clear about that message. And I think that's one of the reasons why the business grew so fast in the early days is because it was, A, no one else was doing it, but B, this group of people had such an urgent need and it was just unfulfilled. There was no one who was for them, if you like. So they would go to these sports injury clinics and feel a bit out of place because, you know, Margaret, age 75 with a bad knee, is just seeing Johnny, age 33, doing squats and thinks, is this the right place for me? Probably not. So we wanted to set up a place where she would feel at home.

[Scott Clary]

You're doing your dream job and you're doing physio for this team. What was the thing, the, the thing that made you pivot and you're like, I want to go help people that are really hurting, which is a very noble cause. But that's not the first thought that would pop into my mind when I've worked my whole life to be a sports physio and then I get the job and now I'm going to move away from it. So what was the thing?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, it was a. It was a funny story. So from about the age of 16, I was obsessed with the idea of being a physio in football. Thought, this is what I want to do. It's the only thing I'm interested in. I love football, I love physio. Let's combine them. It's going to be perfect. Right. So all the way through university, I was obsessed with this one niche and then as soon as I left university it was like, let's try and find a job in professional football, which are really hard to come by. Now, massive stroke of luck. I had an in with the club doctor for Portsmouth Football Club, which was the club I'd always supported growing up. And I messaged him, he messaged back, he was like, let's set up an interview. Went through the interview, got off the job, right. Absolute dream come true. I couldn't believe it, took the job, got in there, realized that I made an awful mistake. It wasn't what I thought it was going to be. I was not as well suited for that environment as I thought. And it was almost like the world comes crashing down because you spent your whole life training for this one thing only to realize that actually it's not fulfilling for me. I'm not enjoying this and I can't see myself doing another 10 years, never mind 30 years in this.

[Scott Clary]

Why not?

[Will Harlow]

It was weird. It was like the, the culture really, and my personality, I just don't think it gelled that well. And it's very cutthroat environment and I just didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I didn't get the same fulfillment I thought I would have getting people back on the pitch. Now I decided that once I've made my mind up, there's no point hanging around here. Let me leave, go and get a job in the big hospital system while I figured out what to do. Right.

[Scott Clary]

Because if you're working for nhs.

[Will Harlow]

Exactly. So when you're working in professional sport, you probably paid less than minimum wage. It's like the best kept secret because you're working like 60 hour weeks.

[Scott Clary]

Oh, I thought these guys made like. I thought in NHS or in public health care, you'd make nothing and then with private professional sports, you'd be paying like 5x what every other scenario at the top.

[Will Harlow]

So the top maybe like 10 jobs in the country. Yes, at the levels I was at, which long ways in Premier League. So the salaries are pretty comparable to NHS, but in the NHS you're working 37 hours a week. In professional sports, like 60, so much bigger time commitment. Right. So I thought, let's leave, get an easier job in inverted commas while I figured out what I wanted to do with my life. It was a bit of like a quarter life crisis moment for me. So I went into the National Health system. I was treating the, you know, like a mill, like clinic, seeing 10, 15 people a day. 90 of them were over 50 because those are all the GP referrals. And I was doing it for a couple of months and I was thinking, this is the most fun. I've had in years. And it wasn't just fun for me, even though it was, it was rewarding. It was. I was seeing transformations in these people that actually meant something to me. Because when you've got someone who comes in on crutches or using a walker and then eight weeks later they're walking again without it, there's just a different level of reward than just getting someone back on the pitch. So I realized that actually, this is more suited to me. This is what I want to do. The National Health System, not the right environment for me to do it. We were constrained by how many times we could see people. It's a little bit similar to the GP model, where it's like very short appointments, lots of patients. You can't really give them everything, you know you can, and you're under pressure to get rid of them as fast as possible because you've got to make room for someone else to come in. So that led me to starting my own business. And I went, from the outset, it was like, I'm going to do exactly what I was doing in the NHS, helping people over 50, but better. I'm going to make this exactly what the person needs. I'm going to serve them as well as I possibly can and hope that it grows from there. And it did.

[Scott Clary]

First of all, congrats. That's amazing, because I didn't realize how, like, this whole career arc is actually quite short because you quit portsmouth FC at 25, now you're 32.

[Will Harlow]

34.

[Scott Clary]

Oh, you're 34 now. Okay. So a few extra. A few extra years added on, but still, this was a very, very obviously a huge need that you were filling.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

Because even in the short period of time, even with your content, your content goes mega viral. And I think it's just because you have an aging population and obviously this is stressing out a lot of people and a lot of. Like, you mentioned your town was like a microcosm for the industry at large. Everyone is focused on, like, the sexy thing. Yeah, right. Everyone's focused on, I want to be a sports physio. And then I have all these different clinics in this. In this city, all focused on sports physio because it's like a sexy thing to do. Even with content. Like, everyone talks about, like, peptides or keto or, like, Paleo or whatever, you know, or whatever Brian Johnson is doing with plasma transfusions with his kid or what. I don't even know. Like, it's the craziest shit. That's, I guess, sexy. To create content around. But it's just, it's not practical for like 99% of people that are just struggling to live a good life.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

And that's actually who you're serving, 100%.

[Will Harlow]

And my content is always going back to the basics.

[Scott Clary]

What people need. People don't need a million dollar per year health routine to live to 2000.

[Will Harlow]

I agree, I agree. And it's also why sometimes I come on podcasts like this and I feel a bit embarrassed because I'm like, I don't have a real sexy, like, protocol to sell. I don't have like this crazy out there routine that people have never seen before. I'm very like, let's just get the basics right. Because it's like the whole 80, 20 thing, right. 80% of the improvement is going to come from mastering those 20% of the basics. And I'm a big preacher of that. And I don't abandon that message. But I think in the population I help, particularly online, there's just such an urgent need for help in mastering those basics. And when people get to that age, they're like, I don't care about what's sexy, Just give me what's effective because I need it. And I think that's why it's done so well.

[Scott Clary]

I think that's, I think that that's the reality for most people. I think that most. This is my issue with health and wellness content. It's that for the majority of people, they've realized to grow their audience and to go viral, they have to take a super polarizing view on one thing and be in one camp and say that everyone else is wrong. Yeah. Even, you know, Brian Johnson, I have no issue with his content, but he preaches like, never have a drink. Never go to a restaurant and eat something that's like, fun. Like, you can have a drink once a month and you're gonna be fine. Like, it doesn't matter if your sleep score is a little bit subpar for one day. I feel like there's this like, absolutism and extremism in health and wellness content. And you actually preach the opposite. You're like, very pragmatically, this is, these are the things that work. Go enjoy your life. And that resonates with me because that's how I live my life. Like, I, I like most people, you want to be healthy, you want to go to the gym, you want to not have it. Consume your life and be the only thing you think about for the majority of people. And then you Want to like go out every once in a while and eat or have a drink and it's not the end of the world. But I think that most health and wellness content in general is just these extreme ideas because they figure, like, that's the only way to build an audience, which is a way to build an audience. But that's why I don't like a lot of health and wellness content online, because it is very extreme.

[Will Harlow]

Well, I do agree and I think you need people like Brian. I love some of Brian's stuff.

[Scott Clary]

I do too.

[Will Harlow]

But I think when everyone goes that direction and it's like almost audience hacking,

[Scott Clary]

it is to a degree where it's

[Will Harlow]

like the more extreme thing I can say, the more likely this is to get views. And I know I'm not saying Brian's doing this because I think like, Brian's so interested in what he's doing and he's obsessed in improving his longevity and like, fair play to the guy. Like someone.

[Scott Clary]

Brian's a little bit different because he doesn't actually like. I don't think he ever thinks for a second. What I'm talking about is what the average person is going to do. He's not, he's not a stupid person. He's using himself as an experiment. So he's actually a bad example because he's actually not preaching at all. He's just saying, I like experimenting on myself and these are the results. I think there are people that are truly preachy and living this extreme lifestyle. He's not actually one of them, but. Yes, I understand. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but no, I think that that's actually why. And you can tell me why you think your content hit. Because from like a. From a creator perspective, I think this is very interesting. Like how did you figure out how to turn something that is relatively straightforward. Not. Not straightforward, but relatively non sexy, which is physio for people over the age of 50. And how did you turn it into this content empire? Now you're obviously, you have the book, you have 1.5 million on YouTube, which I'm pretty sure you're like the most followed and subscribed physiotherapist on earth at this point.

[Will Harlow]

I think Bob and Brad might still be ahead of me.

[Scott Clary]

Yeah, but still in a relatively short period of time, you're like top five.

[Will Harlow]

Whatever, I'll take that. I think the hard work with my content is done in advance in distilling down what actually matters. And I think that is the thing that's most needed in content, because as we said before, there is an unlimited amount of information online that you could go and find now. But how much of it is useful and how little use is it? If you try and apply everything all at once, you'd arguably be worse off than if you just did nothing. So the hard work by me is done in distilling the simple ideas into frameworks and into systems that people can implement in real life. And when I'm making content, I always try and bear in mind a couple of people who might be watching the content. And these people have lives, they have things that they like to do. They're not spending four or five hours a day exercising, but they still want 80% of the benefits. So how can I give them that in the shortest period of time possible? So that's the framework I think through when I'm trying to plan content.

[Scott Clary]

And it's obviously worked very well.

[Will Harlow]

It works pretty well. I mean, it's what's worked for me and it's what's worked for that audience, which is. I always think of them as a no nonsense audience. They don't want nonsense. They want things that are gonna actually grow corn, if that makes sense, like the effort they put in. They want to see a return. So as much as I can offer them that I keep trying to do that.

[Scott Clary]

What's changed in your life between. I think you started off on YouTube with 50 patients, 50 subscribers. Now you're at 1.5 million.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

So has this changed your focus priorities or not at all?

[Will Harlow]

Focus? No. Well, yes, it has changed from when I was just a brick and mortar location with no online following. So the focus now is much bigger, much wider. I want to reach more people. So the goal is to impact 100 million people over 50 in some way that's measurably improved their life. How we can measure that, I don't know. But that's the big North Star right now. In terms of helping people over 50, the focus has not changed at all. But in how we do it, it certainly has changed. And now we have a team. We've got a team of 10. So I spend less time doing the things I was doing before, when we were just getting started, and more time on strategy, more time on planning, more time on recruiting and training the team.

[Scott Clary]

But do you still, like, you still work with clients?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, but less, because I don't have the time. And it's like I had to make a really tough call a while ago. It was like, I can still keep seeing 30 patients a week and not have the kind of impact that I know we've got the potential to make. Or I can cut that right down and really go all in on having this big wider impact. And I feel like whether it's the gods of YouTube or whatever, like something blessed me with this big audience now and now it's a responsibility and I feel the weight of that responsibility, but in a good way. It's like I've been given this gift, this, this big audience that are clearly getting something helpful from my content, which is amazing. How do I keep pouring into that to reward those people and keep growing it?

[Scott Clary]

I love that. I think you're 100%, you're 100% correct. I mean it's obviously. And now you've. Now you have obviously a clinic with a great waiting list. You're writing a book. Like I think that the. And, and I think that you obviously are filling a huge gap that I know you said there's a few people that have large audiences as well, but not many people are serving. So you know, if we just go quickly through your life over the past now eight years. Right. So you quit Portsmouth FC at 25, you're 34. You're running one of the most watched over 50 channels on the Internet. You have a best selling book. It will be. I'm willing that into existence. That's about to come out.

[Will Harlow]

I appreciate that.

[Scott Clary]

A clinic. You have a wife who runs part of the business with you as well, who's been indispensable.

[Will Harlow]

I have no doubt from day one she sat on that front desk when it was just me seeing patients.

[Scott Clary]

Amazing.

[Will Harlow]

She gave up her job to come and help me do that.

[Scott Clary]

That's beautiful.

[Will Harlow]

She believes that what I was doing was worthwhile.

[Scott Clary]

Good. Amazing. No, that's. She's an amazing. I don't even know her and she's an amazing person. And by the way, that is a whole other hack to have a great partner.

[Will Harlow]

100 agree.

[Scott Clary]

If the 25 year old version of you could see 34 year old version of you, what would surprise that 25 year old version Most?

[Will Harlow]

I think the responsibility on my shoulders. So with the team and with the, you know, just the way I approach the content, I always approach it from. I've got a responsibility and not to let people down. And when I was younger I shied away from responsibility. I was a little bit more laissez faire. Just less, less, I guess less serious. Like now it's like there is a weight. So I think that would surprise him. But really the things I enjoy doing haven't changed that much. I still like exercise. I still like spinning vinyl records. I still like going out and enjoying the outdoors, that kind of thing. I still like spending time with friends. And even though life is very different from a work point of view at home, it's very similar. Like, I, I'm not bothered about, you know, amassing cars and houses and all that stuff means nothing to me. Do you know what I mean? I know from a work perspective, it's very different from the rest of life. It's the same.

[Scott Clary]

How has it been like building, building a business out with your wife? It's been, it's like, I appreciate it because, like, so my fiance, Gina, she has her own business, but we work together so closely. Like, we're both very, very entrepreneurial. She helps me with my stuff, I help her with her stuff, and I love it. I think it's, it's probably one of the best decisions if you are with the right person to build a business together.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah.

[Scott Clary]

But it's also sometimes like, you got to find a way to like shut the business off. Well, I don't even know. I don't shut off ever.

[Will Harlow]

But like, I'm the same. I can't preach on that.

[Scott Clary]

I say, I say that you should shut off, but I don't know. But this has been a superpower for you, having that person in your life to help you build.

[Will Harlow]

Yeah, it's having that understanding of, you know, she'll see me working 60, 70 hours a week and it's like, she gets it. There's no, like, oh, do you have to work so much? Like, you're always doing this. There's none of that because she understands. And I think the challenges are certainly there. Like running a business together will expose every weakness in your relationship, but it will also build every strength even stronger.

[Scott Clary]

I fully agree with that.

[Will Harlow]

If you have the right person, it's a superpower. If you have the wrong person, it will find it out very quickly.

[Scott Clary]

What is, what is one really important takeaway that you want to leave the audience with, but also just one last prevailing myth about aging, longevity, health and wellness. So I guess it's a two part question, but let's leave them with that and just drive it home. The importance, and because this is personal to me too, I want everybody who's listening to not just listen to this and go back to their life. I want them to genuinely listen to this. And whether or not, like you recommended, two bouts of 20 minutes per week, whatever it is, please Start now because again, most of the conversations I have on this show are about, you know, mindset or, or business or building. But none of that really matters if your health goes to. Like this is the most important conversation because what's the hack, what's the performance hack, what's the money making hack? Whatever it is, it's like being able to show up with 100% of your energy and your health and your wellness and not being in the hospital or sick or you know, debilitated like that is the hack. Like, imagine how much more effective and how much more you can do if you just wake up every day full of energy until 120 years old. Like that's going to be a, a pretty good way to find extra time to do all the stuff you want to do in your life anyways, not to take it away from you. So one big myth about health, wellness, longevity that you just want to leave the audience with and then some final words of wisdom.

[Will Harlow]

So let me see if I can loop all of that together. So we've spoken a lot about mindset and the, the one thing I want to leave people with is the fact that the reason most people don't get started, I think is because they are overwhelmed by what they think they have to do in order to make progress. And I think that is not just the case for health. I think that's the case for business, for relationships, for friendships, for everything. Now, when it comes to health, I think one of the most valuable things people can start to understand is this concept of the minimum effective dose. So what is the least amount you actually have to do to see a meaningful improvement in your health? And for most things, when it comes to strength, mobility, balance, it's actually much less than most people think. So we already spoke about the minimum effective dose for strength training is 20 minutes twice a week. The minimum effective dose for improving a painful, stiff knee is probably five minutes once a day. The minimum effective dose for improving your balance is probably 30 seconds of practice done three or four times a day in something we call an exercise snack. Now all of these things are not just me saying it. These are hard studies that have been done to show that there are meaningful improvements between where people start and where people end, typically about 12 weeks later. So it also doesn't take that long. So once you can figure out what that minimum effective dose is, it makes it so much less intimidating. And that's what I want to leave people with, is that it's probably going to take less than you think to See an improvement to get maximal effects. Yes, there's a lot you can do, but to get yourself moving, it's probably going to take less. And the myth I want to bust before we finish is just that people think aging is just a slow decline. And we now know that rather than just being a slow, downward trajectory, what happens when people decline with age is usually a long period of plateaus and then a very steep drop when something goes wrong, and then another plateau, then a very steep drop. So typically, it's someone who's very healthy, healthy, healthy. They have a really severe sickness that knocks them out for three or four weeks. Big drop in muscle mass and strength and mobility. Then they never recover. Then that becomes their new baseline. Now, this is relevant because it dictates the way we live our lives and what we believe about aging. That aging is not just an inevitable decline, is about trying to prevent these catastrophic things from happening. And then if they do happen, try and make extra effort to build yourself back up, because you can. So hopefully that's a hopeful message.

[Scott Clary]

It's a realistic. It's a. It's a. It's a dose of reality. Yeah, it's a dose of reality. And I think that this is because what that ties into is the incorrect assumption that just because I'm not feeling anything bad right now, it doesn't mean that I, like, I shouldn't. I should care about this stuff, like, if I'm not feeling anything. Well, what happens when you do get sick and you do get this dramatic decline? You weren't expecting it. You weren't expecting to lean over in your garden and not be able to stand up. You weren't expecting any of these things. That's why prevent. That's why prevention and preventative care activity, resistance training, whatever it is, is so important because you don't see it coming. That's the lesson in my mind, at least.

[Will Harlow]

I agree. Don't wait for it to go wrong before you do something about it.

[Scott Clary]

Where can people connect with you? Independence for life, like I mentioned, is available anywhere you can get your books. May 26th. Obviously, Amazon and everywhere else, but website, socials, where do you want to send people?

[Will Harlow]

Yeah. So with the book as well, we have a stack of bonuses I've created with it, not just to sell more copies, but to get people to actually implement the lessons inside. So everything I created that goes along with the book is designed to help people actually get the benefit that I wrote the book for. If you want to connect with me, willharlo.com that's got all of my social links and things on it, so you can find basically everything to do with me on there. Or just search Will Harlow on YouTube and it will come up SA.