A (3:48)

Yeah. I was going to ask you what year did you start the E comm site?

B (3:52)

So okay, so I'm being completely honest with you. I like to be very transparent. I actually started my business at the same time that I was working full time. I don't, I don't have, I don't have a, it's, you know, I like to be honest about anything because the thing is I never mixed of course one thing with another whatsoever. It's two completely different things. And if anybody that has a business and start out a business knows that to even get your first sale, it's just, it's not like oh here's my website and sales are just pouring in every day or every week. Like it's, that's just not the case. So I started to slowly work on my, my e commerce business, my online business while I was working full time. So I was working 80 plus hours a week total. I'm trying to figure out Instagram at that time, trying to figure out how to get people to, to go in. At that time actually I actually started on Etsy before I had a website back when Etsy was Etsy.

A (4:57)

Yeah. What year was that?

B (5:00)

2012 actually as well. Yeah, so back then Etsy was definitely more focused on handmade and like, you know, very small retailer. Now it's become almost like an Alibaba almost.

A (5:14)

Yes, it's true.

B (5:16)

So it's not what it was. But at that time, me personally, I said, you know what, it's easier to start a business where there are already people going to Etsy looking for specific items. So it was a way in my head to kind of be in front of people.

A (5:34)

Yeah.

B (5:35)

While I figured out how to grab people attention from social media and otherwise into like an actual website. So that's kind of how things started for me.

A (5:46)

Totally. So it's safe to say, you know a thing or two about client relationships because you've been at it for a while. And so I'm curious, what are some of the core values that in your business guide your client, customer and client relationships and how do you try to like communicate those core values?

B (6:05)

So I have a few, like a few key points. I'll kind of quickly go through them. Like number one, I always, I always show appreciation to my clients. They know it really doesn't matter how big of a purchase or how smaller purchase it is that the client is doing with me. I always am more than aware, have that awareness to just be grateful for it because they're literally choosing from hundreds, thousands of options that they have out there and they're going with me. Right. So that's definitely that. Also, I don't see my customer as only a transaction. It's easy to, to kind of fall into, you know, wanting to, to get the sale. Of course we have overheads, we have, you know, stuff to pay. I get it for sure. But sometimes it's easy to kind of get blinded by it and, and kind of not remind ourselves that, you know, our clients, especially us, that we're smaller businesses, we actually have something that bigger businesses don't have. And it's that of that ability to be able to be very personal with our clients. Not everything is like, you know, AI or people responding to me like via just pop up on the screen or whatever. So.

A (7:26)

Yeah. What are some ways that. Sorry, I'm curious to speak more to that topic.

B (7:31)

No, no worries.

A (7:32)

Personalization, like are there things that you would say you've implemented in your business that are like extra special in terms of personalizing that experience? Like, how do you do it differently?

B (7:43)

So, so okay, so in nature I'm a very empathetic person as it is. That's just, you know, it's not something that I tried to learn how to be. It's just who I am. So I'm just very, very extra aware of like, hey, you know, especially starting a business from scratch, it's like I have these people that are coming to me or to my business and spending their money with us. So I want to Treat my clients when I can, of course, the same way that I would like to be treated if it was me making the purchase. That's just how, how, how I look at it, especially if you're talking about an engagement. And that's kind of like the, the lens that I see things through now sometimes being an E commerce, sometimes people literally go into your website, they click, they purchase, they go out, and that's it. And we can talk about later on how I, regardless of that being the case, how I still make it as personal as possible for my clients. But when you do have the chance of having to chat with your client before the purchase or on DMS or on comments on Instagram, just making it very personable, like as if they're like actual friend of mine or a family member. That's just the way I treat all of my clients.

A (9:05)

Definitely. I think it was really great what you said about empathy because, like, it seems like an obvious thing to try to be empathetic, especially if you have the opportunity to do so. But I don't know, I, I've heard passing comments from people in this industry and they like pass judgment on customers about what they do or don't purchase and things that have happened with customers. And I'm just like, my goodness, like, I mean, think about your own shopping experience. I'm sure you've made decisions about things that may not have been favorable to like the business owner, you know, or have like made returns or this or that, or made demands and requests. I think we all kind of do to some extent when we're spending money. And I think empathy and putting yourself in the customer shoes, as you said, like, wow, that goes such a long way.

B (10:01)

You, you'd be surprised, honestly. And for all, for, for all intentions. I'm not like, I don't know everything at all. I mean, I still do mistakes. I'm still learning, so. But you'd be surprised how the most obvious things are the things that will always work and that will help you and your business, like, be afloat for a long time. It's really not that complicated, really, once you have the client, which is the hard part, like, the rest should be easy. It's just like you said, it's just common sense empathy and goes a long way. But you know, again, like I said, we talked in the beginning, maybe before we started recording. Sometimes you are like in, in autopilot on your business and you're focusing only on the sales, focusing only on how much money is coming in every day or every week. Or every month that sometimes it's easy to get distracted by that and then lose focus of the people who are actually bringing in the business and the money and the sales.

A (11:00)

So that's such a good point. So just for some context to how many people on your team are actually involved in that customer service? At the customer touchpoints, is it just you or are there other people on the team also that are doing that, like communication involved in the customer experience?

B (11:22)

Yeah. So honestly, it's usually me and my wife and my wife. We're, we're both the ones who take care of our clients. I do have a team of a marketing team that helped me, of course, a lot with like social media and blogs and, you know, other things to be updated on a daily basis or monthly basis. But when it comes to customer service, you know, I don't want to sound like these people that, you know, have to do everything, but I just feel that I'm gonna sound so cliche because everybody says this. I have their own business, but I feel like it's something that I, at least for the time being, I don't want to give to anybody else to do. I want to do it myself. I feel that, that the way what I like, my feelings, my empathy, the way who I am is who the business is. And then that translates well into me dealing with my clients and talking to them and going through the whole process. Whereas if I put somebody else, which could be the most amazing, well intentioned person, it's still not their business. So in my head, it's not going to be as, not perfect, but as, as, as high quality as I would like it to be.

A (12:42)

That makes total sense. Yeah, I get that. Can you walk us through like a specific example? You don't have to say like the client or the piece of jewelry, but like maybe walk us through an example of what that personalized experience looks like from like start to finish. Like what are the different touch points, the different communications that someone gets that, that feels personalized to them?

B (13:06)

So, well, let's say if it's somebody that, that starts off with a DM on Instagram, which happens, you know, pretty often. Of course I think of it as of if my friend or my family member is DMing me. Of course there's respect and everything. Kind of do some jokes and stuff like that. But still I do treat it like in my head it's like, okay, I'm talking to, to Larissa and you know, I don't know you, but you are reaching out for some questions and you want to know how does a 1 carat look versus a 2 carat or how does it look in yellow gold or what wedding band? And I just, in my head, I treat it as a friend. That's just my DMs and also try to be as informative as possible. I tell all my clients to this day, whether it's a dm, whether it's an email, whether it's the ring is already done and in their hands already. I said please, please, please, please never hesitate to reach out to us as much as needed. Like, I really don't mind the more questions you have, the more, the more we can kind of give you information and help you be at ease or answer any questions you have. That's what I'm here for. I really don't. And that's true. Like, honest to God, that's completely true. I really don't mind how many questions they may ask you because the thing is, if you do your, if you do your work correctly and you communicate effectively, there won't be that many questions to be, to be asked back. Meaning like, like they won't have to come back to you 10 times if you're doing your job correctly and being empathetic and being sure that you're not cutting corners and trying to give those best replies and responses to your client.

A (14:52)

Yeah, absolutely. And then so by the time they finally like make the purchase and even rece the piece, is there like more personalization at that point and afterward?

B (15:04)

Yeah, for sure. So once the ring is ready and we're about to ship, first of all, of course, all the branding, everything is like on point. Meaning like the, the box, it has a logo and you know, everything makes sense when they receive the package. But then also after that we actually, for each individual sale that we do, whether it's a pair of $50 stud earrings or it's a $10,000 engagement ring, we write handwritten thank you notes every one of our clients. I don't care. Again, I really don't care if it's a $50 purchase, if it's a $10,000 purchase, a half a million dollar purchase. In my head, I treat everybody the same when it comes to customer service with them. And then something that we started doing, I want to say a few years ago, like three or four years ago, is that besides the thank you notes, the handwritten thank you notes, on the back of the handwritten thank you notes, we actually write a positive quote. And every single week that's a different quote again from my Empathetic side. And you know, I've been through some anxiety and depression stuff in the past and you know, and some coaching and stuff like that. I journal every day and I do affirmations and all that stuff. And I really see how just going that extra mile and giving that positive quote to our client, it's just, you know, you're kind of putting positive vibes out there in the universe and I think there's no, nothing wrong can come out of that. And if anything, you'd be surprised how many clients have emailed or DM'd us saying like, how do you know that I need to actually read this quote? Today I received this package. I love that like, like they've been going through cancer or, or their family, like just different stuff. And I told them like I'm not a side by any means or any does that. Yeah, because sometimes you know how it is. Sometimes we, we read a quote and we just really feel it. But I tell them like we just literally select a quote that we select every single week and it's based on our feelings and like what we, you know, whatever we're going through or whatever we're thinking that specific week and you just try to convey that to our clients and just kind of spread that extra spark of positivity out there.

A (17:29)

Yeah, that's such a great idea. I was going to do, I was going to ask you if you've gotten like feedback about it. That's really cool that people have responded to it. I mean that's just another way to like continue building that positive relationship. So how about the post purchase experience, like after they've received the package, it's all delivered, they're happy. Is there more personalization that happens beyond that?

B (17:54)

So beyond that, not a lot more. We do offer to our clients like a one time complimentary ring resize if need be. Just because I know how difficult it is to sometimes like nail down the exact ring size for your partner. Sometimes it's a mission. So I always tell everybody like, hey, you know, the ring is a little bit too big, a little bit too loose. I mean too. I just literally email me, DM me. Some clients even have my personal cell phone. I said just communicate with us and what we'll do is that, you know, you send the ring back to us, we'll have it resized and shipped back to you at no additional cost. We'll take care of that. Because usually that's one question that comes up a lot when it comes to engagements. It's about ring Resizing. So we do that as a post purchase. And every now and then we do, we do reach out to clients. That happens actually more than anything on Instagram, to be completely honest with you. Just because we follow a few of our clients and they follow us and sometimes with a bunch of them we do keep in contact with. But that's pretty much about, about it. Of course we have emails that go out to specific clients that purchased in the past and why not? But that's kind of like the extent of it.

A (19:08)

Are those like email automations or do you personally reach out to like past clients?

B (19:15)

So those are honestly that's automations.

A (19:18)

Yeah, I was just curious.

B (19:22)

It could be done, I guess personal, but it gets a bit crazy.

A (19:27)

Yeah, no, I totally understand. I mean automations are a great solution for that. As someone who does email marketing for clients, I like fully endorse automated, automated post purchase emails. I was just more curious about what you guys are doing. Is there any way that you like reward repeat clients or try to encourage your clients to give you referrals or reward referrals?

B (19:54)

So we don't do reward referrals. We don't do anything. We don't really like have any, how would you say this? I guess like any like trick or hack to have clients come back to us. Me personally, honestly, I just, you know, nothing wrong, I don't know judgment whatsoever. But I just find this, maybe sometimes it's too salesy, like too, too like you know, wanting more of your business. And we have a ton of repeat clients and a ton of referrals. But then it all comes back to what we're talking in the, in the, in the beginning about being an empath, having empathy and doing your job right in terms of treating your client the best way they can. Like if you do that and you're holding their hand throughout the whole experience and helping them out like that's it, like that's gonna cost for you to have a bunch of referrals. Because one thing that we actually do on our website that just came to mind right now is that when clients are checking out, we have a pull down for them to let us know how did they hear about us? So we have Google, Instagram and a bunch of them is friend, family referral. A bunch of them that come in, that's what they select in the pull down. And it's just, I believe it's just from us trying to do our very best to, to do the best we can for them.

A (21:23)

That's awesome. I mean that shows that you're doing a really good job with the customer experience. If people are feeling so confident that they're willing to tell a friend or family member, I think that's no small thing. So that's amazing.

B (21:38)

Yeah. And sometimes, always, I believe it's the easiest marketing in a way that it's something that you can control. Right. And also they buy and purchase from you without even hesitating because they already know that somebody they know had a very good experience with you.

A (21:58)

Yeah.

B (21:59)

So it's so it's, you know, it's kind of a no brainer.

A (22:02)

It's the cheapest marketing and it gives you the most qualified customer. Like what could be better than no.

B (22:09)

And longevity too.

A (22:11)

Yeah, that's very true. That's so true. And they'll probably refer you as, well, it's like a chain of events that just keeps happening. So I'm curious to know kind of about the role of storytelling in your marketing because it sounds from what you described, first of all, that you have a unique niche customer. Like it's not for everyone and you have a certain story about your product assortment and like the customers that you're catering to. So how do you kind of leverage the story to build trust and loyalty with your customers?

B (22:46)

So this is something I'm still working on, to be completely honest with you. Like I've built my business like I had, like I'm like a first generation in terms of having a jewelry business, like an actual like store, like one style store, I guess, like an E commerce store. So I've been learning as I go. But it's very authentic to who my wife and I are in terms of our likes and you know, tattoos and music and you know, specific music as well. So when we do do like for example, photo shoots we have, which we haven't done this year, but when we do that, we kind of keep in mind like a specific aesthetic or, or you know, idea in mind. Like we've done like vintage settings. I want to do eventually like a pin up, like a pin up shoot I think will be amazing. We'll break like a vintage like you know, 50s, 60s, like pin up. And there's in my pacific demographic, there's a bunch of niches I guess that fall within what I love to do as I love like all this like, like the rockabilly or like the deco, like all these different things that we can kind of go into and try to convey those same, I guess, feelings and how you say this, like styles, I guess to our clients, which goes with what they like as well. You know, also even with the music as well, like on Instagram, at least I know it's a bunch of trending audio that everybody uses. And I'm completely guilty of it as well. And our team is. But I actually talked to my team a few months ago. I said, hey, you know, I'm not against using the trending audio thing because I completely understand that you're just. Sometimes you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. It's. I get it. It's like a trial and error and what may work one day doesn't work the next day. But I said, you know what? I'm going to give you a playlist on Spotify of like 50 plus songs that I like personally that I think my Pollock, my demographic, my clients would also like, you know. Yeah, I don't know, Depeche Mode, dismiss, like all these like new wave or old rocks music that, you know, I, I love. I listen to every single day. And that I think translates well with, with my clients and just kind of build all that into the experience. So when they do, like see a post on Instagram, you know, sometimes it will be this whatever, like trending stuff. It happens for sure. But you know, you have this amazing ring, but then you have Depeche Mode on the back and. Or you have the Smith or you have Pink Floyd or whatever the case, that kind of binds everything together of that experience for our clients. So just being authentic, honestly, I believe it's the best approach to having that because people can read through. Can I swear? Can I swear on here? Can I swear?

A (25:49)

Yeah, go for it.

B (25:52)

People can read through the. You know what I mean? And like I said in the beginning, if you are trying to be somebody you're not and just chasing the money, only you're just giving yourself extra work, you know. So I just try to be as authentic as possible.

A (26:10)

That's such a good point. I love. Also, you know, you said you made an actual playlist. You like, gave it to your team members. I really like the thoughtfulness of that. And also like modeling an example for people that might not be in your head. And you were kind of saying this before. That's why you have this, like, grasp on the customer service, because you want to do it like your way, but obviously you can't do all the things in your business yourself. And so that's such a good example of like taking your story, or at least what you already know about it and like giving it. Giving a tangible thing. That someone else can like, understand. And I think that that's such a good idea.

B (26:53)

Yeah, just being authentic. Honestly, when I started, like isn't called, I was literally buying seashells and making molds of them and doing silver. And I was trying to be ahead of it, not ahead of the trend. I was trying to go with the trend. You know, what's the, how do you say pantone or pantone Color of the pantone.

A (27:12)

Yeah.

B (27:14)

And then, oh, this season buttons are in. So I was buying all these vintage buttons on ebay or whatever and just was trying to go after the money and not being authentic to how, like what I really liked, who I really am. And once I shifted and said, you know what, I love tattoos, I love skulls, I love all these alternative, like, cool stuff, but also I love like high end, like luxury jewelry as well. So how can I kind of just mix those two things together? And once that happened, it's funny, like, it wasn't overnight, but it's funny how little by little you see the success and more sales come in and trickle down as each month went by. So I just, I just think being authentic is, you know, and it's easy, trust me. I, I'm guilty of it as well, of trying to, trying to figure out what's the latest trend to try to go viral and everything else. But, and I think that's okay to a point. But I think the majority of it should be just authenticity to, to each individual. Especially like I said in the beginning, we are small brands, we are small companies and we actually can afford to do that.

A (28:21)

Yeah, that's such a good lesson. And yeah, like you said, I think it's okay. You can still be authentic and maybe play with trends too. But I think the core is like, to be authentic.

B (28:34)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I don't have nothing, trust me. Like, we all would love to have one of our reels have a million views. And of course, who, who does? And, but I think the good majority of that chunk should be this being very authentic, which, a bunch of jewelers, I follow a few brands and, and private jewelers and a bunch of them do that too. Like they are themselves like, you know, they, you know, they love wine, for example. They're always like, you know, taking videos with like their wine and the rings and this and that, just being authentic to themselves. And that's cool. That's, you know, and different people will, will gravitate to different, different brands and that's, that's, that's the way it should be.

A (29:11)

Yeah, for sure. So my last question before we get into the bonus content is for you. I know that you don't exclusively sell wedding jewelry, but it does seem to be like a pretty good amount of sales. And as we know about wedding jewelry, it can be a one time or a two time purchase and then like you never see them ever again. Right. So do you have a way of trying to bring those customers back, engaging with them, like selling them other types of jewelry?

B (29:45)

Yeah, so we actually started to a few years ago trying to make like more earrings, pendants, necklaces, piercings as well, like golden diamond piercings just to, just for that same reason, like not only go after clients who already have bought an engagement with us, like you said, it's a one time purchase. But also you'd be surprised how many people actually purchase a smaller ticketed item first to see their experience with a company and then decide if they're going to go with you for a bigger purchase, like an engagement ring. So it goes both ways actually.

A (30:25)

Yeah. Interesting.

B (30:27)

Yeah. And we're working with that. I'm trying to also have like a little like silver collection as well. Just trying to figure out how to make it like kind of a little bit more elevated and not so, like, you know, not so, I don't know, motorcycle, like biker type of thing. I'm trying to like find that, that, that balance between like, like edgy but still like elegant. So I'm working on that. But yeah, definitely. We're thinking, especially for 2025, we're thinking of, of having like a lot more items that are also number one, more affordable and also have nothing to do with, with engagements just to cap before and after their purchase of their engagement ring. So that's actually which brings back to the whole thing of feeding your clients. No matter if it's a small purchase or a big purchase, always treat them the way they should be treated and the way that you would like to be treated. Because if they purchase a small $50 earring and you're like whatever, 50 bucks, who cares? Like you box it in and just ship it out. Like you may just have lost $10,000, $15,000. And not only that, but referrals down the line.

A (31:32)

So yeah, a great lesson. I totally agree with that. So before we wrap up this content and go into the bonus episode, why don't you tell listeners and viewers where they can find your brand and learn more about you.

B (31:48)

So on Instagram, we're @iz&co. That's iz a n dco. My personal Instagram is I Z A L A Y O N as in Nancy. That's is my last name. Of course, in our Instagram business, Instagram, it's all rings, it's all a ring of jewelry stuff that we're making. Sometimes we post like 3D cads of the process of what we're making. And a lot of positivity there as well that I post. Working out and just trying to, you know, trying to. To be an example pretty much as much as possible to other people.

A (32:31)

So.

B (32:31)

And trying to be my best self. So that's kind of what goes on on that and website www.izenco.com Amazing.

A (32:41)

Thanks for joining us. Today is it was really great to chat with you. I love the dose of positivity and I'll have to check that out also so I can get some too.

B (32:51)

Thank you. Thank you again for having me over. For having me over on your podcast. Really, really means a lot. Very grateful for it.

A (32:56)

Yeah, of course. So, hey listeners and viewers out there, what are you doing to nurture your client relationships? Did you learn something new today? Let us know. Visit success with Jewelry.com and if you love the podcast, we'd love to hear from you. Send us a message or leave us a review. And thanks for being a part of the community.