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Success With Jewelry
166 - Liz Chats With Robin Kramer About Building Stronger Wholesale Relationships
00:29:56
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Success With Jewelry podcast. Your go to source for real conversations about business marketing and what it actually takes to succeed as a jewelry brand. Today I'm interviewing Robin Kramer. We first talked about wholesale back in episode 55, where we covered the fundamentals why jewelry brands might consider wholesale and how to build a successful strategy. But once you actually start working with retailers, a whole new set of questions comes up. In this episode, we're digging deeper into what makes wholesale work long term, what retailers are looking for, and how brands can build strong relationships with their stockists. We'll also share some additional tips and resources in our insider community where members get access to extended episodes with practical advice you can start implementing right away. Let's get into it. Hey, Robin.
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B
Hi, Liz. I'm so excited to be here.
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A
Thanks for coming back. I was looking at when we last chat it with you, and it was a long time ago. I think it was a couple years,
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B
which is crazy because you and I talk. But I'm so excited to be back. And you know, I love this. I'm passionate about this topic.
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A
I know you are. And so of course, when I was thinking that we should cover wholesale again, I was like, oh, I got to get Robin back on. For listeners who didn't catch our first conversation, can you briefly share your passion for wholesale and your kind of perspective on it in general?
- [01:27]
B
Well, I think especially in today's world where business is hard and there should be multiple ways of generating revenue and wholesale. And I look at wholesale as not just a way to generate revenue, but it's a way to generate market value and space and validation. And I, you know, and it's not about having a lot of stores, working with a lot of brands, or, excuse me, a lot of stores, but working with the right stores. And, you know, things have changed so much. You and I have been in the industry a long time, and it has changed so much to where you get to really be in control of what you want. And what I mean by that is if you just want to stay relatively small and work with a few stores, you can do that or you can expand and work with hundreds of stores. But it is, it's much more, it's, it's much more moldable. I would say it's not easy, but I think it's an incredible way to get, get your brand out there and to really generate not only great sales and a wonderful relationship with stores, but brand acknowledgement. And it's one of the best marketing tools out there.
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A
I think that it used to Be this like one size fits all strategy with wholesale. And now there's a lot of different avenues to grow a jewelry business. And you kind of need multiple, you need to think in multiple directions. You can't just rely on one thing anymore.
- [03:16]
B
A hundred, 100 million percent on that. And also if you had asked me probably 15, 20 years ago about wholesale, I would say, well, you need a line that you can produce on a regular basis. Like you has to be repeatable. Things have changed. People are looking for, they're looking for one of a kinds. They're working for Evelyn, like personalized where it's the same style but you can change the stones or there's just so much more flexibility.
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A
That's one of the biggest questions I get with wholesale is like, well, I make one of a kind jewelry. Can I wholesale it?
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B
Heck yes. If you had asked me 15 years ago, I'd be like, well, you could do a little of it. But now, I mean, if you look at Linna Scadgaard or Margaret Sutton Solo or you know, brands that really are all one of a kind, it is absolutely possible.
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A
I realize I just dove in because I assume everyone knows you, but can you share? I just like, I didn't even ask you to introduce yourself really, because again we have that first episode that we did. But also I just assume that the industry knows you but you've been working in wholesale for ever.
- [04:32]
B
I have, I have actually I have a big. I can't believe I've been doing this for so long because it's, it flies by. But I grew up, my mom had a store, my uncle had a showroom. So I kind of grew up in the industry and then I actually studied retail marketing and, and management in college and have a fashion merchandising degree and, and then I went into work for the Gap. I worked for big corporate retailers, so I've worked for Gap and William Sonoma. I went back to Gap and worked for the Old Navy division. And then I got into working for a small handmade business and that was in 2001 and got to fall in love with just handmade product and smaller brands. And I saw the opportunity for, for helping these brands because here I'm coming with, you know, all this knowledge of, of relationships with stores and how to run a store and, and I love the vendor buyer relationship so much. So I Fast forward to 2005, I started working for Dog Ear Jewelry. I was their first director of sales and they were a 14 year old company at the time. And in the five years I was there. They grew 800%, which was bananas and all sorts of. We did a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. And through that I just kept, People kept coming up and asking, what are you doing? What's your, what's the magic pill? And I, I just, People just kept asking for my, my thoughts and advice. And when my dad wasn't doing well, I decided to go out on my own and start a consulting business. I always think I'm, I always say I'm the accidental consultant because it really is just from my love of this industry and my love of helping people, truly. And so in 2010, I started Red Boot Consulting. And for those of you know, I wear red cowboy boots. That's what I'm known for. So it made sense to call that my company. And in 2012, I was approached by a friend of mine who was a jewelry designer. Her name is Tracy Matthews and probably a lot of you have heard of her. She and I started, we co founded Flourish and Thrive Academy and it was great. We wrote, it was kind of before all the course stuff started happening. So we wrote courses and really helped a lot of jewelry designers. And then in the, at the end of 2017, I really took a step back to be with family during a challenging time. And I realized when that happened how much I just love working really one on one with people and getting to know them. I feel like I can help them the best. When I, when I know it's not being an entrepreneur, especially when you're a creative, it is not just a business, it is your life. And to be able to help somebody with that, I need to know them. And so I dove back into Red Boot and have been just really loving the relationships that I'm building with designers, but helping on just a more in depth level. And you and I, I gosh, we met in 2016. I remember because Marla, Aaron and Julie from Virtu and I mean it was a table full of.
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A
We all had breakfast together in Vegas.
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B
We did. And I was like, this, this Liz lady is so cool. And I always thank Julie for introducing us. And it's been wonderful to be friends with you all these years, but we had the pleasure of. We've done some things together, but you and I were so adamant about doing, when you go to a show, how people weren't taking in full advantage of a trade show. And we approached New York now in August of 2023 to do an educational program for emerging fine jewelry designers. So we've had the pleasure of working together and just think the world of you. And we, we both have similar views. Like our, it makes, brings us joy to make, to help people in any way we can.
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A
Yeah, I think that's why we connect it because we are really doing this because we're passionate about it. We're not trying to, you know, build multi million dollar consulting businesses. We just want to help designers and we see them thrive and all of that. So I think that's why we really connect. I think also like our core belief of how to find success in this industry is to build relationships. And I think that that's like, you know, really what drives the way that we coach.
- [09:50]
B
Absolutely. And, and truly in life, like if you would look back and what you've done in life, I always think it's the relationships that we have and not only the relationships, if, I mean it absolutely builds long term and it's, it's amazing because we know stores that have been in the industry for 30 plus years and the same thing with brands. I mean I, I, I think of Jamie Joseph retiring and I think that is one of the coolest things I know. Sydney lynch retired. Like it is having a jewelry business is a business and you get to plan for those things. So we want to help you plan for that and, and be prepared for that and, and really treat your business like a business. But it, it has so much more heart to it.
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A
You know, because jewelry is an emotional thing. It's different than other products. It's probably, you know, I come from, I have some experience in corporate as well. And it's so different working with small brands because there is that level of emotion and passion behind what they're doing.
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B
Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's also where the struggle is for a lot of creatives too, is that there's so much tie to it that if it's not, if somebody doesn't pick it up and buy it, then they don't feel, you know, I know designers who are like, oh well, they just don't get it. They don't get what I'm doing. I was like, you've got to sometimes take the emotion out of it. And so, so it's, you know, the struggle is real sometimes.
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A
And when you're doing something different, it takes longer for it to catch on. And I think you've seen, and we've both seen and you continue to see through the curated program, which is three cycles of doing a show, that by that third cycle you are getting traction. You know, especially if you continue on that journey, like, you know, fifth, sixth show, you're really getting traction on your work.
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B
Oh, my gosh. The confidence. And so much of it is confidence as well, because there's so much talent out there. But no, just really standing in what you believe in and. And not letting someone kind of knock you off and know why you do what you do. But I know we're going to get into that, too.
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A
I could.
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B
I could.
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A
That's okay. Yeah. My next question here, but it's kind of like, you know, the answer to it is a little bit more. It's not. It's not what you'd expect, but, like, what makes a jewelry line stand out to retailers now? One of the things is consistency and consistently showing up. Right.
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B
Absolute consistency. Having a strong point of view. I think that's also really important. But, like, you know, we were just talking about. It's like, there's a lot of good jewelry out there. There's a lot of great jewelry out there, but no one's going to know about it if you don't talk about it if you don't show up. And so it really is about the consistency of getting in front of people. You know how much I love the phone and people hate it, but I think a handwritten note goes a long way. I think a phone call goes a long way. Doing a call campaign that doesn't have to be sales focused. It could just be like, oh, I saw this article about your store, and I just had to call and tell you it was fabulous. Congratulations. That's it. That is. You know, you don't have to. It doesn't always have to be. It's not about the sale. It's about the relationship and building that. So having that strong point of view, being consistent, being professional, like, have your. Can I say shit together. I don't know.
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A
I think that's fine.
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B
You can bleep me. You can beat me out. Oh, my gosh.
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A
Larissa will be editing this. We'll see what she does. But, yeah, I think. Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry I derailed you. You didn't derail me.
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B
You.
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A
Maybe you did. Maybe we derailed each other. But, yeah, I think that. That having a strong point of view that's showing up consistently, that having everything buttoned up is so, so important. Because a store is not just going to come in and buy from a brand that doesn't have a line sheet, that has. Is. Doesn't understand their. Their turnaround time, that doesn't know how much how big of an order they can handle. So having everything organized is so important to build trust.
- [14:28]
B
Oh my gosh, absolutely. And that's, you know, the clear pricing and like you said, line sheets and sending out postcards and that consistency of that and knowing how are they going to place an order and what are you going to do with communication wise, if for some reason you can't deliver on time, how are you going to handle that? Just communication is so important and being reliable and communicating as well and then just being yourself. You know, buyers meet so many brands and are approached all the time. What they remember is somebody who shows up really genuinely and confidently.
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A
At one curated, we saw a designer get picked up. It was their first show, it was a big store that picked them up because, I mean the work was really good. But because the buyer and the designer had a connection, like mutual friends, I think similar college, something like that. But they, they were having this great conversation and it really led to the business conversation.
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B
Finding those connections is just, it is amazing. It's like dating, you know, when you meet somebody and you find out, oh, we went to the same school, maybe not the same year, but there's a connection, or hey, we both have kids, oh, there's a connection, or we both, you know, ride horses. I mean, whatever. It is like finding those connections can really make a difference.
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A
So what do you see as common mistakes that brands make when they're trying to get wholesale accounts?
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B
I would say one of the biggest mistakes is not having your systems in place. Meaning, not. I mean it is amazing if you're doing it all yourself, which typically when you're first starting out, you are. It's having a system for how you're going to ship, having a system of producing, having a system of, you know, how are you going to take an order, what's what forms of payments, you know, are you set up with a business account, you know, with your bank, you know, just really setting your business up like a business I think is really important. It doesn't have to be perfect because everything's a work in progress, but just being more prepared. And I think in today's world, I mean there are opportunities to find out this information. I mean, you and I are there to, we have clients that we guide and help along this way so they can feel really prepared. Things are happening so fast in the world today that to go out there blindly should not be an option. There's too, there's, it's too, there's too much information that you can obtain and it is Worth the investment to know what you're doing before you get started. That's my personal opinion. It's like don't willy nilly it. If you're serious, be serious.
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A
I mean the number of designers that go into a trade show without knowing or like having experience. And that's one of the reasons why we created Curate it was because we wanted to educate before someone showed up at a trade show which is a big investment.
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B
Oh my gosh, it, it's pained me in fact 10 or 11 years ago I started doing a free tour of New York now because I would. I mean I've been going to either exhibiting or attending New York now since 2001. So all these gray, gray hairs are showing up. But what it killed me to go through the show and see someone. Not merchandise. Well, not give, provide a message out there. Like you could walk by a booth and have no idea what they're selling and the lighting is poor or they're on their iPad or phone and not looking up. I just think you're spending thousands of dollars to be in a show, be there and make the most of it. And not just with meeting buyers. Your fellow vendors are incredible wealth of knowledge. Some of my best friends have come from being at the show. I've become so close with some of the buyers I used to work with that traveled with my. I have fellow vendors who, you know, I've, I've stayed with when I travel. I mean like it is amazing. There are wonderful people and connections. There's press that walk the show, even the, the people that work the show. Your count reps there are amazing and they want you to succeed. So really be there and present and it just like take advantage of every aspect. So doing the tour was such a. I mean I just don't want people to pay so much money and, and not take full advantage.
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A
Do you think trade shows are still an important part of a wholesale strategy?
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B
I do. And a product, I mean there's great wholesale platforms out there. I'm going to give it that. Absolutely. And I think it needs to be out there. But there is no substitute for touching and feeling a product. And also the relationship building that happens at a show is incredible. And that is why buyers still go. And it's so interesting to me because if you look at brands that start off online, you know, the Rothy's, the Warby Parkers, the Jones Road, those type of brands, they all have retail stores now. All. So the importance of a store is really strong.
- [20:35]
A
I probably have said this here before. But I still have relationships from like the first trade shows I did in like 2012, 2013. Centurion, I think was my first trade show. But I still could call those people that I met and they'd still be like, oh, hey, Liz, like that relationship building is a really big deal.
- [20:54]
B
Oh my gosh, absolutely. And it's so fun to see. It's so fun to see the brands change and grow. And Sarah McGuire, it was so fun to see her because when I met Sarah, she was with Chrissy Harris sales and Dog eared was with Kristy Harris as well. So I met all these cool brands and I'm still good friends with Christy and her team and they talk about an amazing sales group. I mean, incredible. But it was so fun because I see Sarah, she has stores now and she's Brian other product. And I got to see her at the show in New York, but then I saw her in Baltimore at another show and it was just so fun. And, and there's such. It just makes me so happy. I mean, you just like, you make friends that you see. I always say it's like camp and you see them twice a year at least, and you get to catch up. And there's just no substitute for that in person connection, no matter what.
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A
And I think in like every single interview I've ever done with a retailer, one of the reasons that they buy into a line is because they like the designer or they like the team that they get to work with. And that's such a big part of it.
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B
Oh my gosh, hands down, absolutely. It's, you know, I always say you want to make it super easy for a buyer. Like, be very clear in your line sheets, make it easy for them to buy. Help them with ordering if that's something they're interested in. Like, just make it easy but make it enjoyable. You know, it's building that relationship and paying attention to them and, you know, taking notice if you didn't see them at the show when you, you know that they usually go to and reach out to them. I missed you. What's going on? How are you? You know, it's, it's building, I mean, building a friendship really.
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A
So once a brand lands their first few stockists, what should they do to keep those relationships going?
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B
Staying. It's that consistency, staying in front of them, asking, not being afraid to reach out and say, how's it going? How are things selling? Because I do feel that sometimes a brand's like, well, I don't want to if it's not Selling I don't want to know. But here's the thing. If you don't know, you can't help. And if, if, if a buyer knows that you really have, that you really want to see them be successful with your brand, it's going to help them buy into your brand more and appreciate. So don't be afraid of that. But being in front of them, being consistent with things, providing them with materials. I always like if you can do a trunk show so you can get to know their staff, go into the store. If you are nearby or taking a trip that's going to be a vacation that's going to take you to that. Like building the relationship within the store as well. Because you want to get to know the associates. Because if they get to know you, they can talk better about your line. Like give more information of about the line. And if you're there during a trunk show or a visit to educate them to where, then they can use your verbiage around it as well. I just think get to know them, invest in them.
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A
Okay, I have a few quick fire questions and then we're going to wrap up and talk to insiders. Ready? Are you ready?
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B
I think so. Okay.
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A
One word that describes a successful wholesale relationship partnership. Best advice you've ever received about pitching a line.
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B
Be prepared. Know what's special about your brand and be yourself.
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A
One thing most brands overlook when working
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B
with retailers, Follow up, follow up, follow up.
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A
What's a line sheet must have
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B
it needs to be clear. It needs to with clear pricing, easy to read product photography needs to be clear but also the materials that you use. I think a lot of times I see line sheets and it doesn't tell me the materials used or the sizing. So really be you want your line sheet to be give all the information a buyer needs in order to place an order.
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A
The other thing I learned from you about line sheets is to have your contact information on every single page.
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B
Yes. Yeah. Because if they, if, if they're given a line sheet and they, I mean I being on the other end and being a buyer at one point like taking the sheets apart is something that we absolutely did or if they're printing it out to do that. But again it's also that brand recognition the more they see it, the more it stays in their head.
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A
What's your go to icebreaker when meeting a buyer?
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B
Tell me about your store. I want to, you know, tell me about your what your customers are loving right now.
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A
One don't do this when selling wholesale.
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B
Do not disappear Once you meet somebody, whether they place an order or maybe they don't place an order, but you've had the pleasure of meeting, meeting them, it's that again, the consistency do not disappear.
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A
All right, Robin, thanks for being here. First tell us about Curated and then tell us where we can find you. All right.
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B
Well, Curated is an educational program that helps emerging fine jewelry designers enter into the wholesale marketplace. So a brand could be around for 20 years, but they have not entered into wholesale yet. So if they're interested in entering wholesale. And this is a handholding program that really takes you in and we look at everything from line sheets, from terms and conditions, from the merchandising of your line. And it is also a turnkey booth, so which is amazing. So really it is. You're not going to find anything out there that is going to provide you with the amount of education. And that also includes guest speakers that come and talk. We're talking stores and other designers and industry experts that come and talk to the group as well. Um, and to really prepare you for entering into wholesale.
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A
And applications are open now for the August show.
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B
Yes. And it is a first come, first serve. So applications are open. There are. The program has 12 brands and we already have people coming back. You're allowed to show within curated. Once you're accepted, you can show three times. Three is a really good number because it gets you in front of somebody consistent consistently. And what I found with stores that if you're not consistently showing up to a show, that they don't take you seriously. Um, so you want to invest in doing this. Um, but for. To show up and. Yeah, there's nothing else like it out there. And that's one of the reasons that you and I really wanted to start this is because there's nothing out there that really helps, especially in fine jewelry, to really help somebody get started.
- [28:59]
A
And where can people find you and follow you?
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B
You can find me at redbootgal on Instagram. You can also find me at redboot Consulting. And you can feel free to DM me. I do a free exploration call too. So if somebody is interested. Wholesale is one of the things that I help designers with, but I also look at strategy and all sorts of things. So if you're curious, please don't hesitate to reach out. I'm always happy to answer any questions. And you can find me at robinidbootconsulting.com
- [29:37]
A
thanks for being here.
- [29:39]
B
Thank you so much for having me. It's always such a treat.
- [29:44]
A
All right. Have you been considering a wholesale strategy. Let us know again. You can visit successwithjoy.com to sign up for the extended episodes as well as exclusive content. Thanks so much for listening and being a part of our community.