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Success With Jewelry
170 - Liz Interviews Kelsey Lim of Abel Objects on Pricing, Substack, and Building Community
00:34:17
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Success with Jewelry podcast your go to source for real conversations about business marketing and what it actually takes to succeed as a jewelry brand Today. Today I'm interviewing Kelsey Lim, designer behind Able Objects. Kelsey is a jewelry designer and maker of fine crafted objects created with future generations in mind. Her work is guided by timeless design and responsible production. In this episode, we'll dive into the challenges of running a jewelry business, covering pricing strategies, running a substack newsletter and organizing pop up events. Other designers. We'll explore how Kelsey navigates growth, sustainability and collaboration while staying true to her core values. Let's get into it. Kelsey, thanks for being here. Of course.
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B
Thank you so much for having me. As I was saying before, I subscribe to your podcast and listen to it, so it's kind of surreal to be a guest on it.
- [00:54]
A
Larissa and I love to hear that people are listening.
- [00:58]
B
Yeah.
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A
Because sometimes we're recording and we're like, is anyone listening?
- [01:01]
B
Oh my God, totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's like sometimes putting anything out in the world feels like you're just shouting into a void. So I always appreciate when people tell me that they've like read things or seen things of mine as well.
- [01:13]
A
So, yeah, I think that's so important. I'm trying to do more of that where I say something to people or comment on Instagram posts or all of that because it is such a small thing to do and it's such a huge help for people in business and people putting themselves out there.
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B
Oh my gosh. Absolutely.
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A
So I wanted you to come on for many reasons. One, I've been a fan of your work for a long time, but.
- [01:39]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [01:41]
A
You sent out a substack, which I want to talk to you about, substack, because we've been getting a lot of questions about it. But another question we've been getting a lot is, is about pricing. And you sent out this incredible substack newsletter where you really broke down the challenges and what you discovered about running your jewelry business when it comes to pricing and actually making money. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you decided to send that out?
- [02:10]
B
Totally. So I actually, I wrote it all down and then I really debated and went back and forth about hitting publish. It was kind of scary, but essentially at the end of 2025, I did all of my bookkeeping and 2025, in terms of feelings, like, I felt like it was my most successful year yet. You know, I doubled my holiday sales. I was busier than ever. Felt like I was killing it. You know, and then when I actually looked at my numbers, I realized that at the end of everything, I had actually only netted out to about $9,000. And I was really surprised, actually. And I kind of was like, how did I get here? And, yeah, realized that I had been under pricing my work this entire time. And one of the things that I think I struggle with running my business is that the turnover time for learning these types of lessons is so long and extended, and by the time you learn them, it can be too late and you've run out of money. And thankfully, that's not the case with me, so that I have another chance of doing it again. But when I was thinking about publishing it, I was thinking, if I can save even just like, one other person from having to make this mistake firsthand, if someone else out there can learn from my mistakes, that will be worth it. And so I wanted to publish it. I also. Yeah, I'm also prone to comparing myself to others, and I know that not everything is what it seems online. And so I had been hearing from other people as well, like, oh, my gosh, how do you do it all? You're doing so well, all this stuff. And I just wanted to be transparent and say, you know, I don't have it all figured out. I kind of feel like I'm making things up all the time. Yeah, things aren't what they seem like. I am still really proud of everything I accomplished in the last year, and I don't think that it was, like, for nothing. I definitely don't think that. But, yeah, I just wanted to be upfront, and I think it helps everyone when we're just more honest about where we're at.
- [04:32]
A
I completely agree. And I love that the younger generation in the jewelry industry of, you know, independent designers coming up are just so. They believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, which I do, too. I think it's really, really important. So I think that was an incredible thing to do and to share, because at the end of the day, designers are in their studios alone, and, you know, it's so hard to know the
- [04:58]
B
right thing to do 100%. Yeah, that was. That's another good point. A lot of me, like, I and a lot of my fellow jewelers are solo operators. And so it's so hard to, you know, know what is normal or right. And it can be very isolating. That's something I definitely struggle with. And a lot of people who, you know, not even just jewelry, but who work in other industries have reached out to me After I published that piece saying, thank you so much for writing this, I feel really seen this is something I've been struggling with too. And that also helped me feel a little bit better about myself as well and helped me be a bit gentler with myself. Like, hey, this is something that's really challenging and you won't figure it out on the first go. And so that's made me feel a lot less alone in this journey.
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A
I think it's really good for end consumers to understand and know, too, and I think that they appreciate transparency. Did you get feedback? Because I'm sure jewelry designers appreciated it, but did you get feedback from clients?
- [06:08]
B
I did, yeah. I think customers really appreciated hearing sort of what goes into it as well. Because you don't know what you don't know. And if you don't have your own fine jewelry business, I mean, if you don't have your own business, let alone find jewelry business, because obviously there are even more specific considerations when it's fine jewelry, like, how would you know what goes into making a product? And, you know, I think that as a consumer as well, I always appreciate, you know, why something is priced the way it is, if only to make myself feel better about, you know, supporting that person or purchasing it. But, yeah, you know, these things aren't priced high just for the sake of being priced high. And it, I think, is a good reminder to people that, you know, these things just don't pop up overnight. And, yeah, a lot goes into them, and there are so many considerations.
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A
And pricing is such an uncomfortable thing to do because a lot of times you're pricing things beyond what you would want to afford or you would budget for. And I think that's where it gets really uncomfortable for independent jewelry designers is when you're making and selling things that are beyond your means or beyond what you would buy. And so can you walk us through a little bit, your approach to pricing?
- [07:29]
B
Totally, yeah. That comment as well, that really hits. It's like, that was something that was really interesting is when I sort of started making work that, yeah, I basically priced myself out of and starting to price my friends out of things. That feels really uncomfortable. But at the end of the day, this is the medium I've chosen, and the price is what the price is. But that's definitely, I think, a factor in what makes pricing so difficult. But in terms of how I approach pricing, it's definitely, I think, what makes pricing. So one of the things that makes pricing so challenging is the fact that it's not just quantitative. But it's also qualitative. I wish it was as simple as, you know, just having your cost of goods sold and applying an equation to that blindly across the board, but that really just doesn't work. And there's so many other factors that you have to take into account, such as consumption, know perceived value or what your own circumstances are, you know, where you're operating from, how your pieces are made. Also you know, what your pieces look like and what other people are selling similar products for. I think that personally I need to work on tempering my own emotions when I'm pricing because sometimes I see the numbers and then I kind of freak out and I'm like, no one would pay that for this. And then I lower it and then, you know, that's how you end up making $9,000, I guess. So, yeah, I usually what I do is like I do have, you know, an Excel spreadsheet that has, you know, my pricing formulas, which I can also like break down more specifically. But then I do sort of a sweep and that's sort of where the more qualitative aspects come in. So again, I do try to though I'm trying not to compare myself to other duelers and the prices that they're able to offer. You know, there is, it is smart to have a general awareness of what other people are doing. But then also like the perceived value thing is really interesting. Like for example, my bend and pin earrings, they are very simple looking and small and daintier for like compared to the other pieces in my catalog. But you know, they are still like a relatively thick gauge. I hand fabricate each one myself. And so yeah, they are very labor intensive. And it's also like a pretty. I mean such is the case with a lot of things that are simple, like actually quite difficult to make. However, as a consumer, when you see the earrings, like, they don't look like they should be that expensive and so, and then some pieces that look expensive are, you know, a little bit less money to make it. So you always have to account for that as well. Like what something seems like it might be worth. Which is strange. But I used a different pricing formula last year. But after, you know, my bookkeeping report at the end of last year, I sat down with my friend Laura of Bruce Jewelry, who's, you know, way more experienced and established and has been doing this for much longer than me. She's always so generous with her knowledge and she walked me through how she prices her work. And so I'm now trying that for this year. When I did my most recent reprice, I. I am using her method, and she does, you know, cost of materials times two, plus labor, and that's her wholesale price and then wholesale price times two being retail price. And that's sort of the new formula that I am trying out. And I always end up landing somewhere in between the wholesale price and the retail price just because I do less wholesale than Laura. And yeah, I'm still sort of fighting through those uncomfortable feelings, but I'm definitely trying to, again, like, temper my own emotions and as much as possible, keep them out of this part of my business.
- [11:53]
A
I think that pricing is really challenging for me as a consultant because I have to put an hourly rate on what I'm doing without materials and that type of cost to put into it. And I think that that's where a lot of designers get stuck is putting, you know, charging for their time and wrapping that up into their formula because it is hard to give yourself an hourly rate. Do you have any thoughts on that?
- [12:18]
B
100%. Yeah. I think that that is probably the most common mistake that jewelers make when pricing their work is not accounting for their own labor. Especially because the cost of our materials are already so high. It feels bad to, you know, charge for our labor on top of that. But I mean, you really have to. And actually something that has helped me with this is so over the last couple of years, I've started outsourcing some of the production of my work. And so I am now being charged labor prices already. So I don't add any of my own labor charges on top of that. But at least I'm then having someone charge me, so it becomes a little bit of a material cost. But admittedly this is like the do as I say, not as I do. But yeah, for the pieces that I still make myself, like the bend and pin earrings, I. Yeah, I also struggle with putting a price on that time, but I think trying to establish what a fair hourly rate is, and I think a tip that also helps me sometimes is imagining that I'm pricing my friend's work because it's just like how I'm so much better at selling my friends jewelry versus promoting myself. If I imagine that, okay, this is a piece made by, you know, my friend Laura. What would I price it as? And I'm much less likely to undercut her work.
- [13:53]
A
That's a really good idea because designers are always so much better at selling someone else's work than their own. It's just really hard. You made it. You're so close to it. I think something else that you do really well is you've really created a brand around your work and you know, it's all mindset work but like creating a distance like this is for my branch, this is to, you know, make money for my business. That could be helpful too to think about.
- [14:18]
B
Yeah, it's actually ironic because when I first started Abel, I did not want to be the face of it at all. And I, yeah, I didn't want to be like front and center as the founder. I also, I felt not embarrassed I about being a solo operator but for some reason I thought that people would take me more seriously if they thought it was a whole team. So, you know, I would also say we instead of I. And yeah, I've definitely shed that over the years. But yeah, it can be really hard when it's your own thing. But what I found is that people actually relate and connect to me more as a brand when it is just me and when they know that even how people email me once they realize that they're chatting with me and I am customer experience people also, yeah, they tend to be a bit kinder and also talk to me like a human. And then it becomes a human to human interaction versus a human and brand interaction, which is nice.
- [15:27]
A
Connection's so important and it's become more important is like being, you know, really that's what I really appreciated about your substack too is just like that's what people want is transparency and connection. And I think it goes a really long way.
- [15:43]
B
Yeah. And it's ironic as well because when I think about the brands that I like to purchase from, I can usually picture exactly who's the person behind it and who makes it. Like all of my favorite products, you know, it's a human behind it small businesses. And I think especially now that more and more companies are seemingly purchased and run by private equity. Yeah, I think it can actually be an advantage that we can use or is something that we can use to our advantage as people want to buy things from a real human and sort of move away from mass produced items. Maybe, you know, I'm in a little bit of a bubble, but at least as a consumer, that's how I am too. So it's funny that I was kind of trying to, you know, be the, like pretend to be bigger than I was when in reality it's like, oh, even I, you know, prefer to buy from someone small.
- [16:42]
A
You're not alone in wanting to do that. I've edited a lot of emails and
- [16:46]
B
captions away from we to I, you
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A
know, and speaking in first person and all of that. But coming back to pricing before we move on, I would say that most designers are underpricing their work.
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B
So.
- [17:01]
A
And I'm sure you agree with that, but it is. It's really hard to price your work. You need to pay yourself. You need to have a real business. Like, otherwise, you're doing it as a hobby, and the price is the price, and we can't do anything about the gold prices or the material prices. And so just putting that out there to empower people to look at their pricing and to raise their prices, because you're probably underpricing your work totally.
- [17:30]
B
And I think that while obviously sometimes it can feel frustrating when I think about, you know, all of the blood, sweat, and tears I put in last year and sort of what I netted out at, you know, it also was such an important learning lesson, I think. And, like, maybe I had to have that experience in order to, like, really internalize that lesson. And so, yeah, now when I am pricing or feeling uncomfortable about that, you know, I think about past Kelsey and how hard she worked and. And how I also. I do want this to be what I earn my living from. And in order to get there, like, this is what I have to do. And so I think seeing the direct result of my sort of pricing mishaps last year was a really valuable lesson. And, yeah, maybe one that I really had to learn the hard way.
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A
And thank you for sharing that with everyone. I think that's really, really, really helpful.
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B
Of course, I'm glad that it resonated.
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A
So I want to ask you a little bit about substack. How did you decide to move to substack? Do you think it's something people should be considering? I want all your thoughts.
- [18:45]
B
What's funny about some stack is I was joking about how everyone has a substack now. Like, everyone and their mom has a substack. And I was like, oh, and I do too now. And I just realized that it made complete sense for me. I have a blog on my website that, you know, I had been posting, writing to. And I also realized that I just do have a lot of thoughts that I want to share with people. And substack felt like just a natural fit because, again, I was already writing all this content for my blog. And so I was like, why not also put it on a platform that allows me to reach people that might not know about me. Obviously, people who are reading my blog already know about Abel, but I also really appreciate Substack because it is just. It feels a lot more casual and also, like, I have a little bit more permission to not just strictly talk about jewelry. I can, you know, talk about other things in my life without feeling like, oh, why is she talking about this on her jewelry website? I also really like that it creates more of a dialogue. So there's the ability to comment on posts and they also have notes, which in my mind are kind of like tweets. And so it allows you to just. Yeah, it opens up conversation. And some of my customers follow me on Substack and so we're able to, you know, they're able to chime in on the posts in a way that they're not able to when I send out an email newsletter or a post on my blog. So, yeah, I've totally done a 180 and I'm. I'm on some stack.
- [20:27]
A
Is there anything specific that's worked best in terms of engaging, engaging your readers?
- [20:34]
B
I would say again, just being more open and real and not as afraid of not being so buttoned up and feeling like you have all the answers. Like I. Time and time again, it's been proven to me that, you know, just being really open and honest about things and figuring things out in real time in front of people, it actually invites generosity from the recipient as well, which is really heartening, you know, I love that. Yeah, yeah. And so I think I've really valued and cherished all these sort of one on one conversations that I have with people. Instagram Stories is another great way of doing that as well. I also use this app called. It used to be called openphone and now it's called Quo Q U O. But that allows me to have a separate number and I sort of use that for customer service. So on all of my product pages on my website, you can text me if you have any questions or if you want to see additional videos or images. And it's really nice because it creates like a little private space where you're able to chitchat with somebody one on one. And again, I think with something as much of an investment of a product as fine jewelry, I think people like being able to, you know, talk to a real human about it. You know, it's not a. It's not just like a impulse purchase.
- [22:11]
A
It's. All of this is so important for building trust. Like the transparency, the one to one conversations, the inviting conversations, the easy, the ease to contact you, all that really does build trust.
- [22:24]
B
Yeah, I hope so. And yeah, I realized I don't really have anything to hide, so why should I be afraid to? I mean, obviously it's always really scary and feels vulnerable to put yourself out there. But luckily with all the positive reinforcement, it's making me feel more and more comfortable. I still hate showing my face, but you know, baby steps. I think we all do.
- [22:50]
A
If you don't hate showing your face, send me a message. I want to talk to you. Can you tell us a little bit? Because you've also helped organize some pop ups and I'm wondering a little bit about that. What's worked well, what's been challenging about it? How has it helped your brand?
- [23:10]
B
Yeah. So I think what you're referring to is golden hour, which is this pop up that I've done the last two holiday seasons with a group of jeweler friends, fellow fine jewelers, and I mean, really when I started, when I decided to go full time with Abel in the beginning of 2023, seeking out community was like one of the first things that I really started trying to do. And I had met individually a bunch of amazing independent fine jewelers and I got a bunch of us together for dinner one day and then I kind of was like, oh, maybe we should do a pop up this holiday. And then it kind of snowballed and we actually did it. But it was so rewarding in so many different ways. I really do have found, at least in my experience, this might just be me, but like the Find Ruler community is amazing. I've been so blown away. I had so many fears, like going into this full time about being an outsider and feeling like I'd be looked down upon, you know, imposter syndrome, the whole thing. And also because jewelry is like fashion adjacent and you know, you've heard so many stereotypes about how the fashion industry can be. I was really worried it would be like that. And what I found instead is that every fine jeweler that I've met is so generous and willing to share and we're also supportive of each other. And it's been really incredible. And so I kind of wanted to celebrate that and then also really just put the sentiment you mentioned earlier. Rising Tide lifts all ships or lifts all boats. I fully, fully believe in that. If I find a really great stone dealer, I want to share that person's information with my friends because not only does it help my friends, but it also helps that stone dealer stay in business. And with the pop ups, I think that was a great sort of crystallization of like all of these things, you know, we were able to share resources and also our audiences. And it just became like this big cross pollination where we were able to, you know, like my friend of a friend, you know, would come to the event and purchase something from another jeweler and like, they would spread the word with like someone that they know who has a connection. And so it really just amplified each of us individually and we were able to do and accomplish much more than we would have on our own. And yeah, so it was very, very worth it, I'll say. In terms of challenges, obviously organizing your own pop up is a lot of work to coordinate and so, yeah, there's that element of it. But yeah, if you find a group of people who are willing to work together, then I think it's definitely worth doing.
- [26:02]
A
I love that. I love a collaborative event. I love a collaboration too, all of that. I think it's great. I think it really helps with visibility and, you know, it's. It's something exciting to share and you're. I just think it's a great thing to do and to think about.
- [26:19]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
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A
Okay, a few more questions and then we're going to chat with our insiders. But looking back at your growth, what strategies do you think have been most impactful for your business?
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B
I mean, honestly, I feel like everything always comes back to building community for me. And I really believe that that starts on an individual level. Like, it can't just be this lofty. I want to build community. And then you try to, like, I don't know, gather a horde of people. Like, it doesn't really work like that. But almost every piece of press I've landed or partnership I've done, it's all started from just meeting someone and being genuinely interested in getting to know them and their experience on an individual level. But, you know, community can take the form of brand partnerships or even just collaborating and workshopping and bouncing ideas off of another jeweler. It can also mean building community on social media. So, you know, really spending the time to actually chat with your customers and understand their needs and wants and desires. Substack. Going back to substack. You know, being open and honest with people, giving context behind the things that you're doing as a brand. Meeting people at in person events. In person events are always so much
- [27:47]
A
work,
- [27:49]
B
but so worth it all the time. Like just meeting new people one on one. In person. Yeah, because I have also found that, you know, as small independent businesses, we often don't have these big marketing or ad budgets or the ability to, you know, do A ton of press, outreach or hire PR firms. And word of mouth is truly the lifeblood of small business. Yeah, like all, most of the, if not all of the opportunities I've gotten that have really been impactful for Abel has been through someone who's been kind enough to say, oh, my friend Kelsey, you know, has a jewelry brand or, you know, being willing to make a connection with me and someone else. And so when I think back on. When I reflect back on Able and where it is now, it's really through all these people. And so I'm just very grateful that I feel like I have been able to build that community.
- [28:55]
A
I love that answer so much. I'm going to ask you some quick fire questions, so just we'll go through these quick. What's one word that sums up your business philosophy?
- [29:08]
B
I would say if I had to choose one word, it would probably be intentional. And that applies to, you know, how I design my pieces. I really want all of my pieces to feel considered and designed to last forever and not just be in response to a trend. And so in my design process, I, you know, sit with things for a really long time. And I always try to check with myself, like, okay, does this piece have value? Is it something worth producing and putting out into the world? And so I'm also very intentional with when I introduce a new piece into my collection. I'm not really interested in having capsules that come and go in response to just a trend. I want it to be in there forever. Also deliberate with how I want to grow or not grow my business. I think there's a lot of pressure to scale in the traditional sense. And everyone always assumes that, you know, I want to hire a lot of employees or I want to make millions and millions of dollars of sales and be in every single store. And the reality is that while on paper, that does look like success for me. I do want to always just be the one person behind Able. Like, I don't want to outsource packaging and shipping out. All order is. I love being the last person to touch each piece before it goes out. I want to always be the one working one on one with my production partners in the diamond district. And that takes a lot more of, you know, my own time. But that is those are the parts of the jobs, that of the job that bring me joy. And so I want to continue that. So making a deliberate choice, an intentional choice, if you will, to stay small and, yeah, valuing quality process, meaning over shortcuts. I think intentionality is something that really weaves its way through my whole. Yeah, all available.
- [31:18]
A
What is your biggest pricing tip?
- [31:21]
B
I think what I said earlier, which is to pretend like you're pricing your friends work. Yeah, that's great. I love that one.
- [31:30]
A
And make sure you're accounting for your time and paying yourself.
- [31:35]
B
Yes, yes.
- [31:38]
A
What's your biggest lesson learned in your business journey?
- [31:43]
B
Oh, my gosh. I struggled with this one. And honestly, I think I just settled on the fact that this is really hard, which seems so simple. But it's definitely. I feel such a bond with anyone that I meet that has their own business, because unless you do it and are in it yourself, it's sort of like how I could never fully imagine I can, you know, empathize with someone that has had a kid, but I, until I, like, live and breathe it myself, like there's only a certain level of understanding I'll really have. And I think having a business is that same way. It's definitely the hardest thing I've ever done. It's difficult, not just, you know, in terms of hard work, but also emotionally. You know, it calls into question, like, your own ideas of self worth and value. And it's a grind, and it's a lot. A lot of. Lot of hours without necessarily seeing any results. And I think as well, a lot of times we see these sort of, like, darling stories where people have one post and it goes viral. Now they're sold out and they never have to work to make sales again. And that does happen sometimes, but for the most part, it is just a lot. A lot of time and effort and blood and sweat and tears behind the scenes that nobody sees. And. Yeah, so I think maybe that's another reason why we're always so supportive of each other in this industry, is that, you know, you have to really love it and want it because you're in it for the long haul. And, yeah, you can't really plan for a sort of silver bullet. And so, yeah, you just really root for anybody who's trying to make a go of it.
- [33:36]
A
I completely agree. Kelsey, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I think this conversation was so relatable.
- [33:43]
B
Oh, thank you so much for having me. I hope that. Yeah, I hope that I said anything, one thing remotely useful for someone, and I'm always down to chat with other jewelers. I love this podcast. It's been such a resource to me and my own journey. And so, yeah, I'm very honored to be here.
- [34:06]
A
All right, what was your biggest takeaway? Let us know. Again, you can visit successwithjewelry.com to sign up for extended episodes as well as exclusive content. Thanks so much for listening.