← Successful Nonprofits Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Successful Nonprofits Podcast. I'm your host, Dolph Goldenberg. Friend. This episode today with Rob Acton is going to be a game changer for you. We're going to be talking about his new book, Becoming a Champion your cause through Nonprofit board leadership. Now, would you call your board members causies? And if you don't know that term, those are the people who are out there championing your nonprofit's cause. Sometimes their friends are like, wow, will this person ever quit talking about the organization whose board they're on? That's who those causes are. And over the last several decades, Rob Acton has unlocked the key to what creates a causi and has also unlocked the key for how you can find that cause that makes you want to be a cause. Let me tell you a little bit about Rob. He's been many things in his life. An attorney, an executive director, a speaker, a founder, an author, and, and yes, Akazi, I'll also share with you. He's also been on this podcast three times. He was here on episode 60. And by the way, I'm so grateful he came on episode 60. Those were back in the days I had to beg people to come on the podcast. And he's one of the few people that was really like at that high profile level that I did not have to beg to come on the podcast. He was also in episode 205 where we talked about finding your next great board member. And now this is episode yikes. I don't know. 350, 360 something, probably so. Today, Rob is the founder and CEO of Cause Strategy Partners, which is an organization that connects the executives and employees of Fortune 500 companies to nonprofit board leadership opportunities. I have to tell you, friend, that I have several clients that have gotten board members through Cause Strategy Partners and they are always some of the highest performing board members that board has. It is one of the ways that I have firsthand experience and knowledge that when Rob talks, he's talking about something that he knows very well. And that's why he's a nationally recognized expert in nonprofit governance. And frankly, he shows this all the time. He does it through his writing, his teaching, his speaking, his guest lecturing, and et cetera. He also chairs the board of directors of Broadway Inspirational Voices in New York City. Once again, have to share with you, I'd be a little nervous about serving on the same board as Rob because that would be setting the bar really, really high for everybody on that board. Now, I've already mentioned to you that Today we're gonna be talking about his book becoming a cause. And from your perspective, friend, I know that you're thinking, well, well, okay, I don't really need to know how to become a causee. I'm already a causee for my organization. But you probably need to know, hey, how do you identify a good causee? How do you make sure that your board is one where people that are really enthusiastic, that are those causes succeed? And those are the types of things we're gonna be talking about today. Hey, Rob. Welcome to the podcast, Dolph.
- [03:17]
B
Thank you. It's so good to be back. I can't believe you've had that many podcasts. And it's just a tremendous honor now to be on number three. I hope it's not a three strikes, you're out rule, though.
- [03:28]
A
It's not. Although I'll share with you, you're among the very, very few people who've been on three, and you'll be among the even fewer people who eventually will be on four times. I also just have to share with you, Rob. When I was reading your book, I had this moment of just joy. And so, for my friends who are listening, Rob sent me a copy of the book before it was published. It is now published. You can buy it. But Rob sent me a copy of the book and he sent it to me as a PDF. No, I apologize. He mailed it to print form. It was just sheets that had been printed off of, like, a PDF. And so I'm reading it and I get. I don't know, not that far in 20 or 30 pages in. And I see. I see his marks on it. I literally, Rob, I could not believe. This might be one of the few times I've got an approved copy of a book. A book where I can actually see, like, okay, you struck this word or you added this word. That made my day. That was so incredible.
- [04:23]
B
Interesting. I. I didn't actually realize I sent you that copy. So you didn't know that background doll.
- [04:28]
A
Well, and I'll say you were. At that point in the iteration and editing process, there were no significant changes. I mean, literally, it was like a word here or a word there, but it's still, like, it was really incredible to have that experience. Thank you. Now, one of the other things that struck me as I was reading your book, and I thought this would be a good place for us to start. You talk about how becoming a board member is kind of like watching or turning on TV and flipping through the cable channels, like on a Saturday Afternoon. Talk to me about that.
- [05:03]
B
Sure. You know, I think we've probably all had this experience where you have a little bit of time to waste. You sit down on your couch, you flip through the channels, and you come across a movie, but it's not at the beginning of the movie, you're sort of in the middle of the movie and you have to then figure out what's going on, who are the characters, what's the plot line, what is this movie about, what is it that the primary character in the movie will stop at? Nothing to accomplish. And after a period of time, you start to sort things out based on the context. And I think joining a board is a lot like that. You show up in your first meeting, you don't know the characters, you're not sure of the plot. You certainly don't know much of the history. You don't know the aspects of the. The history that you don't want to touch with a 10 foot pole, the challenges that they've had to overcome. Lots of letters are being thrown around the sfg and you're thinking, what in the world's an sfg? So there's so much going on as you start on a nonprofit board that you just don't know. And it's sort of a great reminder, I think, of how you need to begin board service. I call it a place of. Of humble confidence. You have a lot of humility because you recognize that there's so much to learn. And you really approach this from a learner's standpoint, but also with confidence. You're there for a reason. The board has elected you because you have the experience, the insights, the knowledge, the background that they know that they need at the table. So there's this important mix of sort of humility and confidence that you should show up with, but certainly aware that there's a lot to learn.
- [06:48]
A
I love that metaphor. I've been the new board member. I've also been the executive director in that meeting. Looking at the new board member, thinking, oh, wow, yeah, we should have covered that in the onboarding before this person's first meeting because, yeah, I've been that board member where I step in and I'm like, wow, there's all this stuff going on and I don't know the backstory.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we hope that what you learn in the first board meeting isn't traumatic. Right. That the organization's not in financial freefall, for example, but yeah, that at the same time that there's so much learning to take place so it's one of the great joys, I think, about, about serving on a nonprofit board that within a limited period of time, when you've really ramped up and caught up on the knowledge that you need and the insights you need, you can truly start to deliver tremendous value, delivering your core skillset, delivering that knowledge area you know best, and then delivering your network over time. And so you're able to give so much. But yeah, it can be scary on day one, there's no question about that.
- [07:57]
A
And when we talk about delivering, I know later in the conversation, we're also going to have a conversation about fundraising and how board members do deliver that network and fundraise. But I was hoping from here we might be able to talk about the age old debate of is this governance or is this management? Because, you know, Rob, and you know, I'm a consultant now, as an executive director before that, and I've served on boards. So in all three of those capacities, I have been in those board retreats where, you know, we throw every task that an organization might have to do up on a board and then people start to go, okay, is this management or is this governance? Is this board or is this staff? And it's interesting because you have a different way of looking at that. And I'd really love for us to talk about kind of your. I think there's about six or seven different guides on how to decide whether this is a decision for the board or a decision for staff. And I'm also not looking to quiz you, so I'm not expecting you to remember all seven. But. But the first one is permanence.
- [09:03]
B
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for that. That prompt as well. And just like you, Dolph, I've served in the nonprofit CEO role for 10 plus years. I've served in the board role for many, many years and as a consultant as well. And it's absolutely right. I've seen instances where the board was engaged in conversations at board meetings and it just didn't feel like their realm of responsibility. And in fact, it's. It's a point of pride for me and my governance. Now, as a board, I usually will be the first person to raise their hand and say, why are we talking about this? Is this even for us to decide? You know, we've given plenty of input. We've shared our perspectives. I think we're done here. This isn't our decision. It's the CEO's decision.
- [09:47]
A
And I also think when the board spends its time on operational and management discussions and decisions, There's a trade off. It's not spending its time on those strategic and governance discussions.
- [10:00]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I really wanted to create a guide because I'd seen this happen for so many years where we were, the board and the CEO were sorting through issues and there was just a question, is this even the board's decision or does this properly belong to the CEO? So, you know, the guide kind of starts with saying, first of all, what do the bylaws say? Sometimes the bylaws will articulate that. I've seen bylaws that say, you know, if a decision will have a financial ramification of $25,000 or more, the board must speak into it or it's the board's decision. So great. Sometimes the bylaws make that clear. Unusual. Most of the time it's a gray area that the bylaws aren't speaking into. And so, you know, I essentially sought to think about what are the variables or what are the factors that if they, that if, if they show up as a part of this decision, it's probably more likely that the board should be. Permanence is one of those. That if this decision will have long lasting implications on the organization, probably the board should be involved. Think about the decision to close down a program that has been a part of the organization's offerings for 10 years. Right. If that's a decision that we're facing, I think the board should be involved. It will have a permanent, a permanence to it. A second area is the controversial nature of the decision. Is one or more stakeholder groups likely to feel, you know, feel slighted that this decision was made? Maybe it's a funder, maybe it's the clients who are served, maybe it's the staff. If there's a controversial nature to this decision, more likely the board should be involved. And frankly, as an executive director, do you really want to have your neck sticking out alone in that moment, or do you want to be able to refer to your board and say, the board made this decision, or we collectively with the board looked at this and
- [11:57]
A
Rob, that's exactly what I was thinking. Like as an executive director, when it's really controversial, I definitely want to know that the board is 100% behind me and if they voted on it, they're 100% behind me.
- [12:09]
B
Exactly. Exactly Right. It's one of the tools, the tool chest of a nonprofit, to be able to reference your board when in controversial decisions. Another one is around the complexity. We're coming out of a pandemic where Organizations were facing wildly complex circumstances and needing to make fast decisions. When you have a board that has the diversity of expertise and backgrounds and perspectives and experiences, we certainly want to leverage the board. So the more contra complex the issue, the more likely it is the board should be involved. I'll throw in a couple more. The more it relates to the essential nature of the work itself, the mission, the vision and values. And we're making decisions around those, those core attributes of the organization that goes to board related responsibility or directional. If you're looking at decisions that will shape the direction of the organization, that relates to strategy. And while the board doesn't set strategy alone, and the CEO and senior staff very much have an important role in shaping strategy, but ultimately the board has a responsibility around the strategic direction of the organization. So if you're looking at directional issues, the board should be engaged. If they don't fit into those things. And a couple other I mentioned in the book, you know, then, then it may well be a decision that the CEO can make on their own. And I want to go back to what you said very, very quickly. I agree completely. It's easy for the board to engage and micromanage on topics that are not macro and strategic in nature because that's a comfortable place for folks to operate. What we really want to do is raise the sights of what we have our board, focus the things around, sort of, you know, how will we bring in the resources necessary to achieve this mission? Or what are the really strategic bets that we want to focus on in order to get closer to our vision statement. Bringing the board's attention back to those things we need their attention on will help them stay out of the micromanaging issues that frankly, you as a nonprofit CEO don't want them in in the first place.
- [14:20]
A
And I'd love for us to talk about some ways that as the chief executive, and by the way, I get as the chief executive, you, you report to the board, but as the chief executive and potentially the chief executive and the board chair, ways in which they can be redirecting the board to these high level governance issues and away from that micromanagement.
- [14:44]
B
Yep. I mean, one strategy that I employed over my career as a nonprofit CEO was related very much to just the relationship that I created with the board chair. Investing deeply in that relationship. I had a standing lunch meeting with every board chair that I ever served under once a month. And we would take time to sit and talk through the challenges that we were facing as an organization. Sometimes it would be reviewing the board meeting agenda and sort of getting their buy in and their insights on what we should be covering in the board meeting. But those lunches did a couple things. One, it gave me the opportunity to air the challenges or the things we were working on with the board chair and get their insights into what properly rested with me to move forward and where the board chair thought the board should be involved so we could sort of shape that conversation in a dynamic way. And so I wouldn't sort of overstep my decision making at the same time, would be able to move forward with a lot of things that frankly, the board maybe would never even learn about because the board chair had given me clearance to sort of move forward as a decision maker on the issue. The other thing that does that regular cadence of time together. And by the way, there's some social time baked in right when you're having lunch. You're not talking about business the whole time. You're checking in on your favorite sports team, how's your. How are the kids doing? All the sort of traditional aspects of building social relationships are there as well. And that creates trust. And perhaps nothing is more important than a trusting relationship full of candor and respect between a board chair and a CEO. And so I think having that regular cadence of relationship development between a CEO and board chair is so critical and allows you to really shape these questions around management versus governance. What belongs to me and where do I need to engage the board?
- [16:46]
A
Yeah, one of the things that you mentioned as well that I really want to underscore is the board agenda. And I really think the chief executive has such an important role in partnering with the chair in creating that agenda. But creating an agenda that keeps the board at the strategy and governance level, that does not invite the board to start to go, oh, what kind of performance should this direct report to the CEO get? Really keeps them out of that. So I know, like, I was so glad to hear you talk about the agenda. But then the other thing that I know I found to be really critical in my career is having that level of partnership with the chair where following a meeting where maybe the board went where it shouldn't, I'm able to have that open conversation and talk to the chair about what I need from the chair, which is really to kind of be willing to be the heavy.
- [17:37]
B
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. It's very hard for an executive director in a board meeting to raise their hand and say, hey, why are you all discussing this? This belongs to me. But it's easy for a board chair to raise Aaron to say, you know, I think I can bring an end to this discussion because I think we've given a lot of insight and input for our executive director, but ultimately we're leaving the decision to them. So thanks, everyone. Next agenda item.
- [18:00]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I know that we've teased folks and Seneca, we're also going to be talking about board fundraising because I don't know a single executive director who has ever said to me, oh my gosh, every one of my board members is great at fundraising. I don't know if you've ever had a single executive director who said that to you.
- [18:20]
B
Very, very few board members have ever been accused of being great at fundraising. In my experience.
- [18:27]
A
You kind of have a recipe for board fundraising success that you lay out in the book that again, this is why I think there's so many reasons for current nonprofit leaders to get this book. As you said, so much of it is a book on, on best practices and nonprofit governance. And, and this board recipe for fundraising success is, is one of them.
- [18:47]
B
Yeah. So thanks for calling this out. Chapter 8 in Becoming a Cause. I have to say, one thing I've learned about writing my first book is you. You have favorite chapters. You know, we're not supposed to have favorite kids. I have favorite kids in my book. I'm really proud of, of a couple chapters and this is one of them. I titled the chapter Demystifying Fundraising for Board Members. The reason for that, Dolph, is that we have now, through our work at Cause Strategy Partners, in our flagship program, Board Lead that you mentioned, we've placed 2,700 business professionals, executives and employees on nonprofit boards. 1400 nonprofit boards across the United States and the United Kingdom. And we've trained and supported every one of those individuals at the beginning of the process, as they started to explore finding a cause close to their heart. Serving on a nonprofit board, virtually none have said, the thing I'm most excited about is asking my friends and family for money. And in fact, hundreds, if not thousands of those candidates have said, the thing I'm most terrified about is asking family for money. And so I really wanted to lean into exploring this from a board member's perspective. The language in professional fundraising, professional development circles around giving, to me, just doesn't float with board members. And we hear all the time about this four stage process in fundraising, identification, cultivation, solicitation, and stewardship. And I kept thinking, these words don't work. When you talk to a. Talk about a busy professional who's going to, for their first time, raise money For a cause. Let's take solicitation. Right. I was a paper boy when I was a kid and we would have to go door to door to try to ask people, do you want the Flint Journal? And you know, collect money at the end of the, the, the cycle? And then a lot of those doors would have signs on them that said no solicitation. Right. We don't identify solicitation with an activity that we want to invite into our lives. In fact, it's a, a criminal behavior in the criminal code in some contexts. Right. Solicitation isn't something we really want to do yet that's how we would approach board members. Okay. Board members. We are at the solicitation stage of the fundraising raising cycle. It's the wrong language. So I developed this recipe for board member fundraising success, kind of a seven step process and really tried to use words and language and ideas that would resonate with a person who's terrified of fundraising and try to help them see that we can, we can lower your, your anxiety about this process, that these are actually normal human behaviors and interactions. And if you can engage your network in ways that are really focused on the relationship that you already have in place and you have no desire to strain in fundraising efforts, you too can do this. And so we've seen a lot of success through our board leaders, you know, in following sort of the principles that are outlined in the book in chapter eight.
- [21:51]
A
So can we walk through them and I'm just going to hit them real quick, but then we can talk about them. Reflection, selection, connection, nourishment, invitation, appreciation and conversion. Like that. That's a lot. Like, that's a mouthful.
- [22:05]
B
I'm going to do my best to speak quickly on each one. Reflection. It's starting with just a brainstorm. Sit with a pen and paper, think about your network, think about your organization and admission and just go broad. Think about the people in your world who may want to connect to some aspect of your mission and jot the names down, don't evaluate the names, don't think about who has a lot of money and who doesn't, who's going through a rough time and who's just ideate. Who are the people in your network who come to mind in reflection moments when you think about the cause you support and the folks in your world who may have some natural inclination to support that cause.
- [22:46]
A
Okay, awesome selection.
- [22:49]
B
So selection. You start going through that lesson now thinking about who do I really want to target as a potential candidate for who will be energized by the mission of their this organization. And you know, you might want to think about their motivations. Why would they be motivated to engage? Or you might want to think about their capacity. You know, the truth is you won't have a lot of time to nourish hundreds of relationships and try to work them towards supporters of your cause. So be targeted. So really be thoughtful around selecting the people that you're going to to put on your list. And you know, ultimately, can you choose four to six individuals in your network who came from that, that brainstorm that you can now select? Say these are the folks that I really want to target to engage in the mission of this organization. Help them find purpose and meaning in their own lives by connecting to this cause that I think is going to really be relevant and matter to them.
- [23:52]
A
So I was going to ask you the number and you just gave us the magic number. Thank you. Four to six people, not 44 or six. All right.
- [24:00]
B
We have big lives and big jobs and this is a volunteer service at the end of the day. Four to six for your first year in particular is a great starting point.
- [24:09]
A
Yeah, yeah. And so the next step in your recipe is connection.
- [24:14]
B
This is the one I love the best in that so many times board members are asked to fundraise in their first outreach to the folks in their network. Is what? And ask to give. Will you buy a ticket to the gala? Will you contribute to the end of your campaign? Will you sign up to support me on the 5k walk? That is exactly the wrong way. To introduce your network to the cause that you care about by asking for money. This idea of connection. You've selected your folks. Now your four to six folks. Help them make a powerful connection to the organization. Give them a memorable first impression. Give them a wow moment. You mentioned I'm the board chair of Broadway Inspirational Voices. We have three wow moments a year. They're called concerts. Where this spectacular choir of 60 Broadway performers inspire through gospel infused music the audience. And they are wildly powerful experiences. You better believe before I ever ask anyone for money for biv, I'm going to try to get them in the seats. I'm going to buy the tickets, I'm going to sit with them and I'm going to have a wow moment of this choir. Every organization has wow moments. The kids graduating from the after school program, the groundbreaking of the new wing at the hospital, the environmental cleanup activity on a Saturday where scores of volunteers show up to do good work. Right. So get your people connected to the organization with a wow Moment long before you ask them for money.
- [25:47]
A
So you really just helped me there on that connection piece, Rob, because part of what I'm hearing is if that connection is not a wow moment, it's like if you've got an introductory event that's not knocking people's socks off, you need to redo that introductory event.
- [26:02]
B
Yep, exactly. Find a wow moment, find a memorable first impression, get them excited to show up and to experience the organization in, in a mission oriented way.
- [26:15]
A
Yeah, I love that. Okay, so your next step after connection is nourishment. By the way, I love that nourishment's in there because that's very recipe oriented.
- [26:23]
B
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So nourishment is build on the wow moment. And again, don't jump right to asking. Build on it. So at Broadway Inspirational Voices after the wow moment, I'll invite my four to six people to sit with our executive director or our artistic director. They are two phenomenal, passion fueled individuals who, if you spend an hour and a half with Angela Groby or Al and Renee Lewis, you are going to want to join this organization in deeper ways. They are just wreak with skills and talent and passion and joy and relationship orientation. So that's nourishing the relationship, bringing them closer in to the work. Build on that first wow moment before you go in for the kill, if you will.
- [27:09]
A
I love it. Okay, so, okay, now from nourishment, I guess we're going to go into the kill. Although you call that invitation.
- [27:19]
B
It's. It's the invitation to, to participate with the organization through a contribution. Right. You're going to need to make an ask, whatever that may be. But it's an invitation to give. Don't call it the ask like, you know, I would you. I'd like to invite you to be, become a part of this organization in more meaningful ways. And here very traditional fundraising rules apply. Right. Who's the right person to make that? What is the right sized gift to ask for? What is the right initiative that the organization is fundraising for that might connect to this person's motivation? What's the right time to ask? So here you want to apply some of the common strategies around the invitation to give. But an ask does need to happen. And so be thoughtful around the who, what, where, when and why of that invitation to give.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, okay. Hopefully they say yes, but either way you're going to show the next step. Right. Which is appreciation.
- [28:14]
B
You know what I have found on that point? Before we get to appreciation, people want to get to yes Right. Particularly for board members, because you as a board member are a volunteer. You've led with passion. They know that you're giving and you're fundraising from a place of real passion for this organization. And these are folks in your network. They want to get to a place of yes. And so I find that in one form or fashion, the folks, the four to five or six folks in my first year that I'm trying to gain in the organization, they are going to give. Maybe it's not quite as high as I hope, and I've had plenty instances where they gave far more than I would have ever dreamed they would. And so the chances are that invitation is going to lead to a yes most of the time. But yes, after the gift appreciation. And that's, you know, that's just called being a human. Right. Expressing gratitude. But you'll be surprised how many times that that falls through the cracks that the gift is made. And then you know that. That maybe they get a letter from the executive director or a tax, you know, a tax letter at the end of the year, but the board member themselves did not express deep gratification. And by the way, there is research. I won't bore you with this. It's in the book. There's research that connects the timeliness of an expression of appreciation to the likelihood that the next contribution will come in and that it will be significantly percentage numbers higher than the gifts that aren't responded to with immediate gratification.
- [29:48]
A
Yeah. And Rob, I'll share with you. I say this all the time in fundraising, and I don't do fundraising consulting, but I say this all the time in fundraising. There is a direct correlation between how quickly we say thank you and how much our donor perceives us as actually being grateful for it. So those organizations let three months go by before getting anything that's hand signed. Yeah, that's a problem.
- [30:12]
B
I'm known to push the Directorate of Development the next day after an event where people have given to give me names and numbers because I want to get in touch with those friends the next day and say, that was amazing. You don't know how much that will do for our organization. Yeah, so. So that's a key step. And then the final. If you want me to jump to it, is.
- [30:33]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:34]
B
And this is one that, again, I don't think has been talked a lot about in traditional fundraising circles. But it's this idea of converting your donor into something much. Your. Your friend who's now a donor into something much more than a donor. Make Them an ambassador and a champion for the cause. Connect them in very deep ways, ongoing to the mission of the organization. That can be done by inviting them to join an auxiliary committee of the board, an advisory board, or a young professionals board. It can be done by inviting them to leverage their core skill set in ways that will impact the organization as a pro bono consultant or joining the volunteer program or fill in the blank. But converting them to an internal, if you will, champion of the cause that's around and committed throughout the ongoing calendar year, then you've got not just a donor for life, but you've got a real game changer for the organization and supporter for many, many years to come.
- [31:38]
A
I love it. I love it. That's a great recipe. We're going to include that in the show notes as well. So, friends, you can always just scroll down on your phone and see that recipe. Truly phenomenal. Rob, we're going to lay this part of the podcast down here for many reasons. First of all, we've done a deep dive on two items in your book, but there are so many other reasons for people to buy your book. And so I don't want this podcast to turn into just a really good audiobook and then no one goes and gets your book. Friend, this is a book that once you get it and read it, you're going to want to get it for every one of your board members. It is really that kind of a book. So please, please, please, friend, make sure that you go online, go to Amazon or wherever it is you like to buy your books and get Becoming a causey. Now, Rob, before I do the outro and talk about all the ways online that our friends can find you, I am hoping that you're gonna play Two Truths and a Lie with me. It's how I like to close out every show.
- [32:40]
B
I love it. So I need to come up with two true things about me and one lie.
- [32:44]
A
Right? Or as I like to say, three facts about yourself. Just one of them is not going to be true.
- [32:48]
B
Okay. Oh, man. You didn't prepare me for this. Let me.
- [32:52]
A
Yeah, and I am so sorry because I totally failed to bring that up. So I have. That's on me. That's 100% on me.
- [32:58]
B
No worries. All right. I'm going to do this without much thought. Are you ready?
- [33:03]
A
Yep.
- [33:05]
B
I am the son of a minister. I, in a, as a part of my career, have been a minister. And I, as a part of my career, have been a athlete professionally.
- [33:29]
A
Okay. From the book, I know you're the Son of a minister.
- [33:32]
B
Okay, you read the book.
- [33:33]
A
At least you said that in the book, so I'm going to take that to be true. Okay. But now I'm racking my brain. I don't think you said anything about either of those two in the book. So now I have to decide whether you're a professional athlete or whether you have been a minister. At some point, I could actually see either of those two being true.
- [33:53]
B
Okay.
- [33:54]
A
Because you've got the personality for both. But I am going to guess that you were a professional athlete at some point.
- [34:01]
B
You are so kind to me, Dolph, and it is so not wa, wa, wa.
- [34:07]
A
Okay. And I was going to ask you what sport you played. Okay. Wow. So you were a minister.
- [34:11]
B
My first job out of college, I was actually a theology major and I was an associate pastor for college ministries. My first job out of college for three years. Yeah. And.
- [34:21]
A
Oh, wow.
- [34:23]
B
I did that while launching sort of a. An organization called Action Jackson in Jackson, Michigan, or Low Income. So I was doing both at the same time. But, yeah, I. I love sports. I have zero athletic talents. I have to say, I've. I've tried and failed. So it's definitely not the. The third.
- [34:40]
A
Okay. I remember Action Jackson from the book as well. So maybe the minister part was in there and I just missed it. I'm sorry if I missed it.
- [34:47]
B
It was not in there. So.
- [34:49]
A
Okay. I was like, oh, my gosh. All righty. That was a good one. See, you're like, you don't have much time. This is why I could not give you much time or it would have been even harder for me. So, Rob, thank you so much for coming on. And friends, you know, it's important to me that you have a way to connect with Rob. So I'm going to give you two URLs and talk to you about what you're going to find there. The first is you can always go to Rob's website, robacton.com the second, you can go to causies.com. there's so much that you can find there. First of all, obviously, you're going to find out about the book. Second, there's a tab, my cause finder, that you absolutely need to click on if you're on that search for yourself for the cause that you want to really get passionately engaged and committed to. And then the third is, while you're there, you can also get a link to Cause Strategy Partners. Now, you might have heard Rob talk some about Cause Strategy Partners. I'm probably not going to get the numbers right, but placed close to 3000 people at close to 1500 different nonprofits around the country. As I'd said in the introduction, I know several people that Cause Strategy Partners has placed as board members and they're all high performing board members. So when you go to cause.com, also check out Cause Strategy Partners, which is linked there. All right, friends, if you like this episode, there's two more I really want you to listen to. The first, this is not going to surprise you, is episode 205, find your next great board member with Rob Acton. Rob. Honestly, I love having Rob on the podcast because he always provides actionable advice. And I'll also share with you. You know, and I've been in this this work for over three decades now. Whenever I talk to Rob, I always have a light bulb moment. I had a light bulb moment in this conversation. So make sure you check out episode 205. Second, check out episode 212, the supportive board chair with Monica Kant. That, my friends, is our episode for this week. I hope that you have gained some insight to help you and your nonprofit thrive. And I wouldn't do it, except the lawyers make me say it. Okay, here you go. I'm not an accountant. I'm also not an attorney. And neither I nor the consulting practice provide tax, legal or accounting advice. And you know why. Of course you do. I've already told you, I'm not an accountant or an attorney. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Yeah, we mentioned it. Bylaws. But you should not rely on this podcast for tax, legal or accounting advice. In fact, don't rely on any podcast for tax, legal or accounting advice. If that's what you need. Find a licensed qualified professional in your area.