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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Successful Nonprofits podcast. I'm your host, Dolph Goldenberg. Friends, today's episode is one you are going to get a lot out of. I'll be talking with Donna Peters about creating your own personal board of directors. Now, many of my friends who listen, I know you're an executive director, and every chief executive feels some kind of way about their board. Maybe they love their board. Maybe they feel like their board is the biggest pain in their keister. Or probably most of you are like, yeah, my board's a mixed bag. It's not all good, and it's not all bad. Well, here's the good news, bad news for you. That's not the board Donna and I are going to be talking about today. Now we're going to jump into having a conversation about the personal board of directors. But before I do, let me just tell you a little bit about Donna. Donna Peters is my favorite type of leader. That's someone who didn't take the direct path to her leadership roles. In fact, she took a very circuitous path. Like a lot of us. She obtained a liberal arts degree, but then followed that with a master's in fine arts in theater and actually became a professional actor for 10 years. She initially transitioned into more of the business world by starting one of the nation's most acclaimed hole in the wall restaurants before kind of scratching her head and saying, maybe, maybe I should go get an mba. Maybe something about this number thing, this business thing, is I should scratch a little bit more. And this led to another life pivot for Donna, where she became a consultant and a leader with EYP and also with Accenture. She did that for 20 years, rose in the ranks of Accenture, and then suddenly said, you know, I think it's time to change again. It's time for another pivot. And she became a career coach, an executive coach, an author, and also, by the way, the host of one of my favorite podcasts, the Me Suite. So, in a nutshell, she's incredible. And I'm so excited to be able to get Donna on the podcast today. Donna, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:14]
B
Thank you so much, Dolph. If I'm ever feeling blue, I'm going to replay that introduction and I'm going to use keister in a sentence this week because I have not heard that word in a long time.
- [02:27]
A
Admittedly, I think I might be 20 years too young to use it, but I like the word a lot. I also use took us, by the way.
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B
Nice.
- [02:36]
A
But so I have to share with you Donna. And I know. I think I've already shared this with you. Oftentimes in the mornings, I go for a walk every morning. And I get ready every morning. Not almost every morning. I get ready for the day every morning. And your podcast was often one of those that I would listen to as I was getting ready in the morning. And I love the way in which you approach not just professional development and leadership development, but also that personal development. And the first time I heard you on your podcast starting to talk about a personal board of directors, I thought, huh, I gotta know more. So I'm so excited that you're coming on to talk with us about this. And my first question. And this is the softball. And don't worry, there are no hard questions. This is the softball. Why should a leader have a personal board of directors?
- [03:21]
B
Yeah, so you mentioned the name of the podcast is Me Suite. And the answer to your question is grounded in that term. There are so many wonderful disciplines and rigor that we bring to the work that we do. The financial rigor, the public relations rigor, the marketing and branding rigor, the R and D rigor. And having a board of directors of a company, that rigor. And I continue to see all of these wonderful, wonderful disciplines that kept us true to the true north of the core values and the principles of companies. And then we walk through the door at the end of the workday and all of that's out the window. And I started to think, well, why is that only for C Suites, we should be bringing those principles and disciplines to the way that we lead our own personal lives? That was actually the generation of the Me Suite. That's the entire concept behind the name. And a personal board of directors is one of those disciplines, is one of those core foundational truths that we use to lead some of the most admired companies in the world. Why aren't we using that discipline for actually the thing that's even more important, which is the way that we lead the life that we want to live. And I argue that surrounding ourselves with a personal board of directors to help us guide our own goals and our own vision for the life that we want to live, nothing's more important than that. And so thank you for giving time to it.
- [04:59]
A
Oh, my gosh, of course. And one of the obvious questions that a lot of my friends are probably wondering right now is, what does a personal board of directors look like? Like all of us who've been a chief executive, we can picture what a board of directors looks like. What is that? Personal board.
- [05:14]
B
Yeah. So let me start with the analogy, because I think sometimes it's easier for us to think about something that we actually know and understand and go, oh, yes, of course. This makes perfect sense for me. If you really think about a board that we assemble for a company for profit, not for profit, any industry. That board is brought together for a very specific reason. That board is meant to bring challenging conversation, ask challenging questions about the way the business is running. They are assembled to bring a diversity of thought to problem solving. And they're also meant to be an accountability board, an accountability body to make sure that the organization is staying true to its mission, its vision, its ethics, its core values. And that is exactly what a personal board is assembled to do for you as an individual. That personal board should be an aggregation of people. We can talk about that, too. It should be a group of people who have been brought together very intentionally because they bring a diversity of thought. They have your own best interest in mind in helping you achieve a particular vision or a particular goal for yourself. And they are challengers and an accountability partner for that to happen, making sure that you are achieving a stated goal, but in line with your own stated core values and principles. So it is exactly the same as the reason we would have a board for a company. But we're attaching this to your own intentionality about your personal goals and the life that you're trying to shape for the future.
- [07:00]
A
So one of the things I wonder then is if I want to set up a personal board of directors for myself. And do I only talk to people I know? Like, how do I identify those folks that I think, oh, yeah, this is the right person for my board?
- [07:15]
B
Yeah, that's the hardest part you're asking. Really the hardest. Most important question is I understand intellectually the concept of a board. I know your listeners are very smart people, but where do I get started and how do I pick the individuals? So let me get real specific. I'm. I'm a very practical person. In a perfect world, think of this board being about three to five people. And in a perfect world, think about it being a mix of people that you want their perspective in service of a goal that you have. So you heard in my statement, you need the goal first. So without goals, there is no board. And sometimes defining a goal can be the goal that you put the board against, but there needs to be a goal. So let's say, for example, that I wanted to increase my financial acumen and my financial planning health, and I wanted to put a board of directors Together to help me do that, to improve the financial health for my family in pursuit of a retirement goal or something like that. So in that example, I would be thinking about putting a board together that would include something, someone that brings financial acumen. It might include somebody that can help me advise on broader issues around estate planning. Right. So not just my spreadsheet of expenditures, but this broader vision for legacy and estate planning that I might want to have as an individual. I might have somebody informing me, challenging me, advising me on charitable giving, which is kind of tied to estate planning, but a little different, right. If you're deciding how you maybe want to be funding a scholarship or giving money to a cause that you appreciate. And then I might want somebody on my board to challenge me to say, I understand that you're trying to improve your financial health, but you still need to have some fun, and so don't let all the fun get sucked out of the financial planning process. So in that example, I might have a mix of people that I do already know and I want them to be a sounding board and an advisor. Like you maybe already have some people in your life who do that. And I might want some of those people to be professionals in a particular field. And maybe I don't know them personally, we're not out at barbecues together. But I go to that person with a very respectful ask and I say, will you please be on my board to help me achieve this particular goal I have around financial planning? And here's the secret. So if anybody's listening and multitasking, this is where they need to be paying attention. This is where we so often get this wrong. A personal board of directors needs formality. This is not a bunch of buddies that you get together on the back patio on a Saturday and in between watching a game on tv. This requires formality. You need a beginning, middle and an end time commitment. So you might say, will you please work with me for the next three months? I'm going to get you together every two weeks to share with you where I am on my financial plan, to get your advice on where I might not be thinking about something. And it's going to be a three month process. And can you commit to that? So we need to put rigor and formality around the timing, beginning, middle and an end to respect the relationship. And we need to give the person the invitee a graceful exit. So when we go and ask them, we share with them the goal, we share with them the time commitment, the logistics. And then we say, if this is Not a good time for you. I completely understand. They will be flattered to be asked. No matter what, everybody wins because they'll be flattered. And we only want them to commit if they really feel that they can honor the assignment. And then the reason it's so important to put a beginning, middle, and an end around it is it's a goal. And a goal should have a beginning, middle, and an end to it. And it may be that your goals change and so you need a different mix on your board and so you refresh it over time depending on the goal that you're working on. For some people, it might be a goal about networking and relationship building. It might be a goal around mindfulness and meditation or something related to your physical or mental health. These goals will evolve for us over time, as should your board. So I often joke, don't get bored with your board. So that's why it's so important to have boundaries and a beginning, middle, and an end plan. So when that objective and that goal is over, you move on to the next one.
- [12:09]
A
I really like that concept of just being very clear, Hey, I need you for three months while I'm threshing and discerning this decision. I really like that concept. I know some folks are wondering, and I've heard you talk about this, so I think I know what the answer is already. If I start approaching people to serve on my board, should I plan on paying them or compensating them in some way or what do I do around that?
- [12:32]
B
Yeah, that's a really important question. The real spirit of a personal board is that this is not a paying relationship. So you can almost think of it as mentoring with more formality and purpose, mentoring with more goal orientation. So I personally hope that you're able to assemble personal boards that do not require the financial transaction. Of course, there may be goals in your life where you want the financial planner that you're paying for, you're paying for the estate attorney, but this personal board is more helping to advise on what are the questions to be asking at this time? What are the things that they think might be your blind spots that you aren't thinking through? So that when you do go out and pay contract with an attorney or a financial planner, you're actually more prepared and you're more in line with your own personal core values? Because the personal board should be the personal board because there's something about their investment in you. And I don't mean investment in money. I mean they're invested in helping you and have their only goal to be there is to help you think through a topic that's of top importance. And then if you do need to go out and hire professionals around it, you absolutely would. This would be very true too. Maybe a better analogy actually, if you were working on a mental health or physical health goal.
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A
Right.
- [14:03]
B
And then of course, you might go seek professional medical attention. For me, one of the most meaningful personal board experiences that I ever assembled for myself was when I was trying to make a big decision. Am I going to retire from Accenture and launch my own business or stay where I am? And I assembled a personal board of directors to help me think through that question. Because I was at a crossroads and I wanted to have that type of advisory. Huge diversity of thought. They were diversity of thought for a variety of reasons. Ages was one of them. My youngest person was 24 and my oldest was 64. Right. So age was part of the diversity. Their work experiences were diverse. Their sex and sexual orientation was diverse on purpose because I wanted that to complement my own thought processes.
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A
So was that the first time you used a personal board and an assembled
- [15:03]
B
one was absolutely not really.
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A
So. Wow.
- [15:06]
B
It's been a religion for me for a while. That decision had higher stakes for me than some of the other ones that I had assembled a board around. I assembled a personal board many, many years ago to help me build a three to five year plan for where did I want to be in three to five years? And that was personally and professionally like a. Think about it like a personal strategic plan. Where do I want to be in three to five years? And I had a. I assembled a board around that topic and largely for the mind expansion. What are all the things I could be thinking? Should I go back to school? Should I get an advanced degree? What city do I want to live in? I've used a personal board again, it needs to be around a goal and I have used it multiple, multiple times. And it's also one of my most requested speaking topics, even for very, very work oriented events. It's just to sit with a group of people and say before you can really go out and appreciate a corporate board, you clean your own house. Is kind of the spirit, right? Think about how you, for any of your listeners that may be dealing with a board of an organization, you can even use a personal board to help you with your own personal leadership and professional development topics. Maybe you're working on executive presence at work, but you want to assemble a personal board of directors to help you work through executive presence. That would Be another way to think about how a personal board could be in service of a professional goal.
- [16:44]
A
It does. I'm often curious about the origin of ideas, but before I get there, I want to reflect on two things. So I loved your first example, which is, hey, maybe you're thinking about your personal finances and retiring in 5, 10, 20 years and maybe you assemble a personal board. When you did that, in my head, I was thinking, well, you know, Frank and I, we hired a financial planner about six years ago. And so as you're talking, I'm like, well, we hired a financial planner, Bobby. She talks to us about all these things. And then I had this realization. Had we assembled a personal board before we went to see Bobby, we would have been better prepared and we certainly would have had a better sense of like, what did we want our retirement to look like, et cetera. And so Bobby and Frank and I have been working together now for about six years, and it's only been in the last couple years that we're now at a place where we're like, yeah, we think that's, that's about right for our retirement. And you're right. A personal board. Had, had we taken the time to assemble a group of people who could have challenged us, brought diverse perspectives and brought various skills to the table that would have really helped prepare us for that work that we were going to pay to do with somebody. So I love, love, love that.
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B
Yeah, I love your example very much. Because wrapped up in, there were many things. If you're thinking 5, 10, 15 years to retirement, one of the things a financial planner is going to try to dig into is what type of quality of life do you want in retirement. Right. Which then predicts how much money you need every month. And are you living on a beach or in the mountains? Are you in a, in a multi generational family where you've got parents living with you? Do you want to run a small business in retirement? Do you want to be contributing to a charitable organization during retirement? And all of those are fabulous questions, and I don't have a judgment about the answer, but it's really hard to do the thinking alone. I think the more you can assemble these, they're not just thought partners, but they're also challengers to really hold a mirror, help hold a mirror up to yourself to really determine what really do you want. It's hard work.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. The other thing I want to reflect on, and I've heard you say this several times now, that the purposes of the board are to challenge you to bring diversity of thought, to bring skills. And I also think that might be a little bit of a mind shift in the nonprofit sector for those of us who are or have been chief executives. Like, oh, yeah, maybe the purpose of my board is to challenge me a little bit. You know, maybe the purpose of my board is to say, you know, this could be a good idea. But here's where I see some holes to bring that diversity of perspective where you've got the 24 year old and the 64 year old and the person who's looking out two years and the person who's looking out 22 years. So sorry. I also just wanted to reflect on that before I made a pivot of my own and asked you, where did this idea come from? What was the first point in your personal or professional life where you said, oh, I need a personal board.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah, yeah. So thank you for connecting that dot to the not for profit listeners. You mentioned that I had been a professional actor for a little over 10 years, so my heart is in not for profit. I get it. So thank you for, for keeping me honest here. I, as with many, many things in my life, I have learned from earlier mentors and have pulled it through. So I was in my, probably 26, 27 years old, the first time I ever heard from a mentor about the concept of a personal board. And at the time I thought, wow, that sounds like a lot of work. And just to be honest, when am I going to find time to do this? But honestly, I was afraid that nobody would say yes. I thought, who on earth is going to say yes if I reach out and ask them to do this for me? And so that's where I started to come up with a little bit more of a. A clear process for thinking about why it's so important that you know the goal first and reach out with the goal. Although sometimes defining a goal can be the goal that you reach out with the finite time frame and logistics for how it will happen, just to be respectful and that you give them a graceful exit so that they truly can say no if now is just not the right time. So you're never damaging a relationship or putting people in an awkward situation. So I, I created three process rules or recommendations from my own personal experience. But the concept I had learned from a mentor way, way back. Her name was Ana Dutra. So I have to give her credit.
- [21:28]
A
It might not be her idea, but I'm gonna give her the credit too. I love Ana's concept of a personal board. That's phenomenal. The other thing I just also have to reflect on is I can tell that you're a teacher and a coach and a communicator. I love the way you break ideas into threes. And so, for example there, you just did that again where you said, o. Okay, you gotta have a goal, you gotta have timeline, time, plan, et cetera. And you gotta have a graceful exit. So, yeah, I just. I really love the way you do that. You break it down in a way that it makes it very clear.
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B
Oh, well, that's very good. And hopefully able to remember. So if you have listeners who can't write that down right now, they'll have a prayer of remembering it to execute it later.
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A
Exactly. Well, Donna, I'm super grateful that you've joined us. And I now also wanna ask you to play one of the. One of my favorite games, which is two truths and a lie. So if you could maybe share three facts about yourself and then one of those is not going to be true. I'm going to try to guess the one that's not true.
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B
Okay. All right. So two truths and a lie. I have a collection of almost 1,004 leaf clovers that I have found in the grass. I have had a one woman show off Broadway. I did a movie with Steven Spielberg.
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A
Okay, I know that you had a one woman show off Broadway. So I've got a leg up here. So now I have to decide, is it four leaf clovers or is it a movie with Steven Spielberg? And that's tough. Yeah, I could see you doing a movie with Steven Spielberg, but I could also see you having 998 pressed four leaf clovers. So I'm gonna guess the 998 pressed
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B
four leaf clovers is the lie.
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A
No, no, it's the truth. I apologize. Thank you for clarifying. The way I said that was confusing. So I'm gonna guess you did not do a movie with Steven Spielberg.
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B
Okay, that is correct. I did a movie with George Lucas.
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A
See, I knew it was gonna be some kind of trickery like that.
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B
Not Steven Spielberg, George Lucas. It's a terrible movie. It's a comedy and it's not funny, but it was an incredible experience.
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A
What was the movie?
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B
The George Lucasfilm is called Radio Land Murders.
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A
That's a comedy.
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B
Yeah. Okay, I didn't think about that. It has all kinds of famous people in it. It is not funny. It was produced when he was testing technology for all of the Star wars prequels in an incredible experience. And if you're having trouble sleeping, I highly recommend you go rent it. Wow.
- [24:05]
A
Okay. There you go. Although I'll share with you. I might see if it's streaming somewhere. Cause now I'm really curious. I'm very, very curious about it. Donna, the other thing, I know before we pressed play, you and I started talking politics. And this is gonna. I know this is gonna be released like the Tuesday after the election.
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B
Oh, my goodness.
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A
I know this is gonna be released the Tuesday after the election. Deep breath. And you know, Donna, I'm drinking from my Harris Walls coffee mug right now. I'm drinking water. Cause I can't take caffeine this late in the day. But I'm drinking from my Harri coffee mug now. So I certainly hope we're all very, very happy. When this thing releases, I will be
- [24:43]
B
wearing my then well worn Childless Cat lady T shirt. And if the election does not go in the direction that I want it to go in, I'm going to have a personal board of directors for a very different reason. Digging myself out of a deep, dark hole.
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A
Yeah, yeah. I might be right there with you. And I'll share with you. You mentioned your Childless Cat ladies T shirt. I kept wearing the same shirt. So, you know, you know, I'm in Georgia. We're a swing state. There's not a lot of people wearing Harris gear, and the poles are so close, but I just think a lot of people are fearful about wearing Harris gear. So I've always felt like, you know, hey, that's a way I can leverage my privilege. So I had one Harris shirt that I kept wearing, and eventually I was like, you know, a, I'm tired of wearing the same smelly shirt. I don't do laundry every day. B, like, I walk the same little pass every day. I went online and I bought four more T shirts. So now I have one for every day between laundry and I go for my walks. Yeah, I put it on. So, yeah, it's funny. Like, I will admit and you know, please, if things did not go how we hoped, no one blame me, you know, on the Tuesday when this releases, please don't blame me. But I was like, you know, I know I'm not gonna phone bank, I'm not gonna knock on doors, but at least I can wear a T shirt
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B
whenever I. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. I dropped my ballot in the. In the ballot box yesterday. I'm in the state of Colorado where every resident registered voter in the state of Colorado receives a mail in ballot in their mailbox. Right? Just. That's just the way it is. Everyone gets one if you're registered and you can go in person. But you also, every registered voter gets a mail in ballot in their mailbox. You don't even have to ask for it.
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A
That would be nice. Georgia did that during the pandemic. And then they're like, we're never doing this again. But like you, I've gone and I early voted. Yeah. And I'm super, super stoked to see, like, Georgia has such high numbers on voting. But again, fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.
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B
It's amazing. Yes. May civility win.
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A
Agreed. Amen. Amen. Well, Donna, thank you so much for joining us today. And but I always want to leave making sure that my friends who listen know how they can reach out to you. And so, friends, there's a couple things. First of all, you can go to Donna's website, which is the-me-suite.com. that's the-me-suite.Com. we're going to link to that in the show notes. You also can contact Donna on LinkedIn. And I'm going to link to Donna's LinkedIn profile in the show notes as well. Those are often really, really, really long URLs. Now, here's though, why you want to visit Donna's website. I've mentioned her podcast, the Me Suite. Totally worth checking out the podcast. I've also mentioned she's got a book by the same name. What can I say? Donna understands branding, the Me Suite. So also worth checking out Donna's book. Then there's blog posts. Many of the blog posts have links to videos where she's done kind of like extracurricular activities at Emory and elsewhere. So really some great material at her website. Please make sure you check that out. Donna, thank you so much for joining us today.
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B
A real pleasure. Dawe, thank you so much.
- [28:03]
A
And friends, if today's episode met a need for you, if it made you think about creating your own personal board of directors for an issue that you're facing, whether that's at work or in your personal life. There are two other episodes that I want you to consider. The first is the Secret to Low Stress and High Efficiency with Susie Heyman. And the second is Making Work Easier with Huggy Rao. That, my friends, that is our show for this week. I hope that you have gained some insight to help you and your nonprofit thrive. And the lawyers make me say it. It's November 12th. I assume there's still lawyers in the land. So the lawyers make me say it. I'm not an accountant. I nor an attorney. And neither I nor the consulting practice. Provide tax legal or accounting advice, if that's what you need. Please go find a licensed, qualified professional and get the counsel that you need.