← Suffer the Little Children
Suffer the Little Children
(Re-Release) Episode 147: Alexavier Pedrin (Part 2)
00:52:16
Note: This episode was originally released on June 2, 2023. In the last episode, I began telling you the story of six-year-old Alexavier Pedrin, whose short life was filled with constant family turmoil and frequent involvement by various CPS agencies...
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- [00:01]
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- [00:57]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Business this podcast contains descriptions of violence against children in adult language and is not suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hi everyone and welcome to Suffer the Little Children, the true crime podcast, giving voices back to the victims of child abuse and shining a harsh spotlight on the parents and guardians and caretakers who silenced them. I'm your host Lane and this is episode 147. Alexavier Pedrin part two in the last episode, I began telling you the story of six year old Alexavier Pedrin, whose short life was filled with constant family turmoil and frequent involvement by various CPS agencies in his home state of Wisconsin and others. After Alexavier's mom went to prison, his father eventually stopped letting her side of the family see Alexavier allowing the abuse and neglect he allegedly suffered at the hands of his father's girlfriend run rampant. In this episode, I'll tell you about the police's welfare check on Alexavier the night before his death, the circumstances surrounding his death on February 11, 2023, the resulting police investigation, and the very recent arrest of a woman who took responsibility for caring for Alexavier but never should have been allowed near children in the first place. This is Part two of the Infuriating Story of Alexavier Pedrin. I'd like to thank my newest patrons, Stacey B. From South Townsville, Queensland, Australia, and Taylor M. And Kelly D from over the Hills and Faraway. Thank you all so much for your support. As I've said before, it's very difficult to find sponsors willing to be associated with this content, so your pledges are a huge help in keeping this podcast going. If you'd like to help out, you can visit patreon.com stlcpod or ko-fi.com stlcpod Just a quick disclaimer before we get into it that everyone involved is presumed innocent until proven guilty and all accusations are allegations until that time. After the arrest on May 19 of the primary suspect in Alexavier's February death and the preliminary hearing on May 22, a lot more information was released via the 16 page criminal complaint. As I read that document, I was in tears not only for what this sweet, innocent little boy endured, but also for what his multiple siblings witnessed and disclosed during forensic interviews. Child abuse doesn't often affect just one child. Even if one child is targeted for the abuse, there's a ripple effect that extends out to the other children. Depending on their age, it can shape their psyche to watch a sibling be abused. Older children can feel crushing survivor's guilt and that would be on top of any guilt they felt if they were coerced into participating in the abuse or otherwise having it normalized. Knowing what Alexavier went through and what the other kids in that house have seen over the years is heartbreaking. Have your tissues ready for this episode. By early February of 2023, Derek Pedren was not allowed to have any contact with his girlfriend Josie Dyckman due to an incident of domestic violence in November of last year. However, it seems he was in contact with her and likely still living in the family's rented home at W. 5512 County Road OS in the town of Medarry, Wisconsin. Derek also wasn't allowed to drink while on probation from his last criminal conviction. On February 7, Josie turned Derek in for being drunk. He was charged with bail jumping and booked into the La Crosse County Jail from where he was later released on a $1,000 signature bond. On February 10, Alex's adult cousin, Raven Holzer called the La Crosse County Emergency Dispatch center at 6:14pm for a welfare check, saying she was worried after learning that Derek was arrested for bail jumping. Raven had concerns about Alex being with Josie. Raven also said that Derek, despite the no contact order, might be at the home. Sergeant Joe Kernan of the La Crosse County Sheriff's Office responded to the family's home shortly after that call, knocking on the back door for several minutes. Finally, Josie answered and allowed him inside, saying that Derek wasn't there. When the sergeant said he was called for a welfare check on Alexavier, Josie said again, when the sergeant checked on Alexavier, the six year old was sleeping on a makeshift bed in the living room, his little body mostly covered with a blanket and his eyes closed. The room was mostly dark, link lit only by a tv. So the sergeant used his flashlight to look at Alexavier's head where it poked out above the blanket. Sergeant Kernan saw a small healing cut above Alexavier's eye that looked to be a few days old. Josie explained it away, saying Alex told her he hit his head on his school desk when he bent to pick something up. CPS notes stated that an email from.
- [06:50]
Josie Dyckman
Josie later said the officer noticed a scratch on Alex's eyebrow. Of course, Alex, being bored at times, keeps picking at it and it's now a little scab, smaller than a pea. Alex said he hid it on a corner at school. I figured they would call the police. They have multiple times. Alex was scared when the police were here and said, mom, hold my hand. I hope all this is done now because he has been through enough.
- [07:14]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Despite what Josie said in her email about Alexavier speaking with her, the officer tried to talk to Alexavier, but he was apparently very tired and wouldn't wake to have a conversation. Josie explained that the whole family was getting over Covid, so Alexavier wasn't feeling well and she had also just given him some melatonin on the recommendation of a doctor. Apparently it didn't strike the sergeant as odd that a parent would give a child melatonin, a natural sleep hormone around dinner time. At the time, Josie's three older children were with her mother, Becky Ehlers, for the night. Only Alexavier and his younger brother and sister bp, who was almost six and four year old Arp, were in the home with Josie. Eventually, Josie admitted that Derek was in the home and she went upstairs to tell him the police were coming to get him. Soon. Derek came out on the back porch willingly and had a cigarette. He was later arrested by Deputy Pfaff for a no contact order violation. Sergeant Kernan asked Josie if he could take another look at Alexavier and she agreed, but asked him not to use the flashlight again, saying she believed Alexavier was being traumatized due to all of the police welfare checks, CPS cases and doctor visits. The sergeant went back inside where he saw Alexavier now sleeping in a different position and no longer covered with a blanket. He noticed Alexavier was wearing a diaper and there was a quarter sized bruise on his outer left thigh. According to the sergeant, the bruise did.
- [08:44]
Josie Dyckman
Not cause severe concern. Believing he was in immediate danger. Josie said he often gets bumps or bruises from the other kids, which Sergeant Kernan has seen to be very active. And even during his contact with Alexavier, another child in the house was knocking on his leg cast as though knocking.
- [09:00]
Lane (Podcast Host)
On a door, the sergeant who had responded to the home for welfare checks in the past remembered Derek once telling him that Alexavier still had bedwetting issues, which would explain the diaper. He saw no reason for concern and left less than 24 hours later. At 9:26am on Saturday, February 11, 2023, Josie Dykman called 911 saying her son was not responding and that she had found him on the ground near an empty pill bottle. The call was dispatched at 9:27am and a nearby deputy, Joseph Anderson of the La Crosse County Sheriff's Office was on scene in about 30 seconds. La Crosse County Sheriff's Deputy Carsten Jar also responded to the house. He went to the front door and Josie answered, according to the criminal complaint. Deputy Anderson noted that Josie appeared calm and conversational.
- [09:54]
Josie Dyckman
She did not appear to be in any rush or panic. Her face appeared normal and not flushed or otherwise upset.
- [10:02]
Lane (Podcast Host)
When they entered the home, the deputies observed Alexavier on the king sized bed located in the dining room which functioned as Josie's room, lying on his back wearing pajama pants and a T shirt. He had no blankets on him but had at least one white blanket underneath him and his head was close to but not on the pillow near the wall under his pants. Six and a half year old Alexavier again wore a pull up diaper and one hand was inside of his pull up. Deputy Jar tried to get Alexavier to respond, but the boy began foaming at the mouth and Deputy Anderson told Deputy Jar to administer a dose of Narcan. Deputy Jar moved Alexavier to the floor and began administering cpr. Deputy Anderson noted from across the bed that when Deputy Jar picked up Alexavier.
- [10:48]
Josie Dyckman
He looked very stiff, as if rigor had already set in.
- [10:52]
Lane (Podcast Host)
As soon as compressions began, black fluid began coming from Alexavier's mouth and nose, continuing in larger quantities as they continued compressions. Before long, Deputy Anderson took over chest compressions. Tragically, Alexavier was Beyond help. Just 17 minutes after Josie's 911 call, at 9:44am Alexavier J. Pedron was pronounced dead. I'll pause here for a word from my sponsors.
- [11:26]
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- [12:01]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The police deemed Alexavier's death suspicious, immediately launching an investigation. Sergeant John Williams of the La Crosse County Sheriff's Office, a former member of the US Air Force and a 26 year veteran on the force, soon arrived on scene and interviewed Josie, who told him about Alexavier's broken femur and his instructions not to bear weight on the leg despite 24 hour supervision. She said he had been getting up and trying to sneak out of his bedroom to get treats, ice cream and Red Bull. She put up a baby gate but ultimately decided to put him in her bed. Josie told Sgt. Williams that Alexavier was awake with her until about 3am while she was on the phone with her friend Lauralee Raines. She said that Alexavier told her he was waiting for her to go to sleep and she told him she wasn't planning to, although she said she did end up going to sleep and now wished she hadn't. Sergeant Williams checked her phone and saw that Josie spoke with Laura Lee from 10:44pm to 11:00pm the night before, but hadn't spoken to anyone else until Saturday morning. Josie said she thought she was keeping Alexavier awake while she was on the phone. At one point, she said Alexavier had started to go to sleep, but she turned the TV on at 12:30 and they watched Mary Kate and Ashley shows until she shut the TV off around 2 or 3am Sergeant Williams also used Josie's phone to verify Josie's story that after discovering Alexavier unresponsive, she called her mother, Becky, and then called 91 1. Phone records confirmed that Josie called Becky at 9:21am in a call that lasted 52 seconds. She said her mother told her to call 91 1, which took place at 9:25am which meant Josie waited at least three minutes after hanging up with Becky to call for help. Sergeant Williams asked Josie about the welfare check the night before. Josie said Alexavier wasn't feeling well and had slept from 5 to 7pm waking up between 7 and 8 or 8:30pm she said he had taken 5 milligrams of melatonin, as recommended by a doctor. She didn't think he had taken any medication that night, although she said he may have taken something for his headache. On the floor near the bed, deputies found an empty bottle of prednisone, an oral steroid, along with a bag of various prescription pills. When asked what medication she took, Josie said she took prescription medication at night for headaches, which she kept in a white thing next to her bed, although it was usually blocked by a table. The kids never got into it, she said, and Alexavier hadn't gotten into the meds she took daily. But she thought he must have gotten into a purse containing old medication because she said she had found it on the floor next to him that morning. She claimed she didn't know what kind of medication was in the bag. During the interview, Josie told Sergeant Williams.
- [14:52]
Josie Dyckman
This feels like a dream and I just want it to go away.
- [14:56]
Lane (Podcast Host)
She said she was looking for Alexavier that morning and didn't know where he was until she found him on the floor and told her 5 year old son to go upstairs with his sister. She claimed she saw white foam in Alexavier's mouth and began performing cpr and that's when she called her mom Becky, who worked in home health care. Josie explained that she called her mom instead of 911 at first because hospitals gave her PTSD after everything she'd been through with her kids. She claimed she gave Alexavier CPR for 10 minutes and then held him. Sergeant Williams then overheard Deputy Anderson explaining to the medical examiner that he had found Alexavier on the bed when he first arrived on scene. At that point, Sergeant Williams realized that Josie's story about finding Alexavier on the floor didn't match the scene. Neither did the descriptions Deputies Anderson and Jar gave about their attempts to perform cpr, describing a large amount of a dark black bloody substance coming out of Alexavier's mouth and nose. That meant Josie couldn't have attempted CPR because all she described was white foam. Also, the deputy's descriptions of Alexavier appearing to be in rigor mortis with one hand still inside his pull up also indicated that Josie hadn't moved him like she said she did. A CPS caseworker arrived on scene and spoke with Josie's mother Becky, as well as Josie's aunt Ann Ehlers. Five year old bp, who was sitting in Ann's vehicle with his little sister, told the caseworker that his grandma told him his brother had died. When asked how his mom and Alex were getting along, BP said kind of.
- [16:32]
Josie Dyckman
Good, kind of bad, saying that Alex.
- [16:34]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Wasn'T listening about not walking on his leg and that he got into things in the house and mom and dad would get mad and spank him with their hands. A protective plan was put in place in which the two younger children would stay with their great aunt Anne. The three older kids would stay with their grandma Becky for the time being. Josie and Derek would not be allowed any unsupervised contact with the children. When the caseworker asked Josie what happened, Josie gave a similar story to the one she told police. She said Alexavier had been staying in her room because of his leg, but he hadn't been sleeping well, instead getting up at night and getting into things. She said he was fighting sleep the night before and told her he was going to stay awake all night. She said they were watching Mary Kate and Ashley when she fell asleep at 3am when she woke around 9, she said she noticed Alexavier wasn't in bed next to her and she found him on the bedroom floor. She said there was an old medication bottle on the floor so she thought he must have gotten into the medication. Josie told the social worker that Alex Xavier had never gotten into medication before, but he often got into other things and was sneaky about it. In her report, the caseworker wrote, I.
- [17:47]
Josie Dyckman
Let Josie know that it seemed so confusing that this happened and she agreed and said that she should not have allowed herself to fall asleep.
- [17:54]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The CPS worker described Josie as emotional and tearful throughout their conversation, which was the complete opposite of how the police had described her demeanor. Dr. Reid A. Quinton, MD, of Mayo Hospital in Rochester performed an autopsy on Alexavier. The autopsy report listed the following injuries. 1 Blunt force injuries of the head and neck, including multiple bruises on the face and scalp, a healing laceration over the right eyebrow, an abrasion on the back of his head two reddish yellow abrasions on his neck and hypoxic ischemic brain injury which is caused by decreased blood flow and lack of oxygen, often due to cardiac arrest two Blunt force injuries of the trunk, including multiple bruises on the chest, back and buttocks, faint red abrasions on the penis hemorrhaging in the abdominal tissues and organs laceration and bruising of the liver, a hemorrhage of the pancreas and a fractured posterior rib. The doctor felt the abdominal injuries were not likely caused by resuscitation efforts because by the time life saving efforts began, Alexavier was already dead. Three Blunt force injuries of the extremities, including his femur fracture as well as bruises and abrasions on the arms and legs 4 alprazolam on postmortem toxicology and 5 dehydration determined by postmortem vitreous electrolytes but also indicated by Alexavier's sunken eyes and prominent ribs. Dr. Quinton determined Alexavier's manner of death to be a homicide caused by blunt force trauma and saying the toxic effects of alprazolam or Xanax contributed to the cause of death. It is unclear if he was given the medication or took it himself, but it wasn't likely he could have opened properly sealed medicine containers. Based on his level of drowsiness during the Welfare check on February 10, it seems likely he was given the medication to keep him asleep or sedate him. In Dr. Quinton's opinion, multiple injuries were concerning for inflicted trauma on February 12. Alexavier's father Derek, who was described in a CPS report as being very emotional, told the caseworker he stayed with his cousin the night before and hadn't yet spoken to Josie since his son's death. He had, however, talked with Jenna's family, including his daughter, 14 year old AP the family told him they were trying to get Jenna released early from prison in Missouri about the frequent welfare checks called in by Jenna's family members. Derek said that when he and the kids moved back from Missouri and Jenna was imprisoned, he felt her family was.
- [20:31]
Josie Dyckman
Overstepping their boundaries with the kids and.
- [20:34]
Lane (Podcast Host)
As soon as he put an end to that behavior by no longer letting them see Alexavier, he said, they became angry and began calling the police frequently for welfare checks. He said AP asked him to let her stay with Grandma Cheryl because she felt better there and being there reminded her of her mom, so he let her. He claimed he didn't feel Josie treated his children differently than her own and that she wasn't harsh in her discipline with Alexavier, who never told him anything about being afraid or bad things happening and neither did the other kids. Derek told the caseworker that Alex Xavier was still staying in Josie's bedroom, constantly trying to walk on his leg and had to be talked to about it after he was caught trying to use his leg at school. Derek said that on Wednesday Alexavier stayed home because he was throwing up. There was no school on Thursday or Friday. Alex Xavier seemed fine on Thursday, but he threw up again on Friday evening, seeming fine again afterwards. When he left the home on Friday night to go to jail, Derek said the police had just been there for the welfare check and Alexavier was fine. Also on February 12, 5 year old BP was forensically interviewed at Stepping Stones Child Advocacy center in La Crosse. His first comment to the interview was.
- [21:49]
Josie Dyckman
Guess what, my brother died.
- [21:52]
Lane (Podcast Host)
He said when the kids got in trouble they got yelled at or spanked. Alexavier, he said, was spanked or choked and kicked. He said Alexavier got in trouble with Josie because he lied and stole things such as Takis and Cheetos. When Alexavier got in trouble. BP said Josie would sometimes kick him in the chest, which he said happened more than once and would make Alexavier whine. He also said Josie didn't use that punishment on any of the other children. About Alexavier's broken femur, BP said he saw his sister push Alexavier down the stairs. He then mentioned that Alexavier drank some.
- [22:31]
Josie Dyckman
Poisonous water, which he said he last.
- [22:33]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Saw Alexavier drink the day before his death, saying his brother looked like a monster. 4 year old ARP was also forensically interviewed saying she didn't like it when her brothers hit or choked her and she would do it back to them. Now I understand hitting, which is normal sibling behavior, but where would children learn to choke their siblings? Arp said when Alexavier would get in trouble for stealing, mom would yell and.
- [22:59]
Josie Dyckman
Dad would throw his toys away.
- [23:01]
Lane (Podcast Host)
She told the interviewer that she pushed Alexavier down the stairs because bp, who was mad that Alexavier lied and stole, told her to. She said no one helped Alexavier after he fell and that her mom didn't do anything. When the interviewer asked if Arp got hugs, she said yes, but Alexavier didn't. 8 year old MH was forensically interviewed the same day. He was quiet and hesitant to share details, but he said his mom would spank Alexavier, hit him in the face and chest, kick him a lot and choke him and that all of this occurred only when Derek wasn't home. He said his mom sometimes put hot sauce in Alexavier's food and made him and made him eat it all even.
- [23:43]
Josie Dyckman
Though Alexavier doesn't like it.
- [23:46]
Lane (Podcast Host)
He also said Alexavier would get up in the middle of the night to get snacks. MH said that Josie didn't allow Alexavier to talk to anybody and treated him differently than the other kids. She used to spank Alexavier with the spatula but she didn't use it anymore.
- [24:03]
Josie Dyckman
Instead, he said she kicks and hits him a lot.
- [24:06]
Lane (Podcast Host)
He also said she would step on Alexavier and that she choked him during the day. On Friday, the CPS caseworker contacted MH's father Mark Hellerud and his mom Sharon. Mark said he didn't think his son was safe with Josie's mother Becky. The next day, Monday, February 13, 2023, Mark filed for emergency custody. He was granted sole placement of his son the following day to be supervised by MH's paternal grandparents. On February 14, 14 year old AP underwent a forensic interview. She said that while she lived with Derek and Josie, she and Alex Xavier were treated differently and more serious than the other children and that Josie spoke to them in a different tone of voice than the other kids. Josie treated Alexavier a lot differently than the rest, she said, which didn't seem right. AP said she had to clean up after everyone and share her belongings with the other kids. She felt Josie started disliking her and Alexavier because Jenna and Derek continued to have contact against Josie's wishes. According to ap, Alexavier continued visiting with his maternal family until Derek put an end to it because Josie said she would take away the younger children if Alexavier continued having contact with Jenna's family. AP told the forensic interviewer that verbal altercations between her dad and Josie often got physical and she personally witnessed these physical altercations between dad and Josie, a CPS report read.
- [25:38]
Josie Dyckman
They would often push each other and the children were often present. She recalled seeing Josie choking her dad at the bottom of the steps when they lived in Brownsville. Dad was on the ground and crying while Josie was on top of him using her hands to choke him.
- [25:52]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The girl said that Josie was doing pills.
- [25:55]
Josie Dyckman
She understood these were prescribed, but she felt Josie was misusing them.
- [25:59]
Lane (Podcast Host)
AP mentioned that Josie slapped Alexavier in the face and she said that when Derek was at work if Alexavier was thirsty, Josie would make him drink his spit. She reported her concerns to family members and once these concerns were brought up to Derek, Alexavier was no longer allowed to visit Grandma Cheryl's. The last time AP saw Alexavier in person, she said, was on his sixth birthday. On that day her brother had a bloodshot eye, but no one told her.
- [26:27]
Josie Dyckman
What happened other than something got into his eye.
- [26:30]
Lane (Podcast Host)
She said she was concerned about his.
- [26:32]
Josie Dyckman
Appearance because his eye bags got darker.
- [26:35]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Although she never saw him again in person, AP said she was allowed to FaceTime him often after that and he always appeared smiling and happy during those video calls. Time for another quick sponsor break. Josie's 10 year old daughter JB also had a forensic interview scheduled first for February 14th and then for February 15th. But Josie's mom, Becky repeatedly put the interview off, saying she was worried about JB's trauma and how she was struggling. Becky also shared concerns about Mark's impact on his son MH. On February 20, Josie emailed the CPS caseworker writing, hello, I wake up and.
- [27:24]
Josie Dyckman
I lose my son. My kids lose a brother and feel as if they lose their mom too. BP and ARP are not doing well with your plan. BP breaks down and cries because he has to leave me or wants to see me. ARP does the same. A piece of my heart is gone forever and the rest of my heart feels shattered because I can't have my kids. How long is this going to last? BP and ARP need more overnights with me. This isn't fair to them. It is destroying them inside and making me feel like I am hurting them every time I have to pry them off my legs to leave them. They are my babies. I don't know how to answer the question of when they get to come home or be with mom or dad because nobody is telling me anything and it hurts so bad. On top of trying to cope with losing my boy, MH seems so distant and confused. He isn't himself. The first visit he was glued to my hip and didn't want to leave me. The second visit he was very distant and off Mark blows the phone up asking if MH is still alive.
- [28:23]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Honestly, who could blame Mark for doing so? The following day, Derek Pedron was interviewed by Special Agent Adam L. Frederick of the Wisconsin Department of Justice Division of Criminal Investigation and by La Crosse County Sheriff's Office investigator Fritz Linefelder. Derek told the investigators that on the evening of February 10, he was cleaning up around the house when Josie yelled to him to grab a bucket, saying Alexavier threw up. Derek took the bucket to her and later removed the bag lining the bucket, washed out the bucket and replaced the bag. As Derek continued cleaning, he noticed a squad car in his driveway and ran upstairs to hide because he wasn't allowed to be in contact with Josie. About 15 minutes later, Josie told him the police were going to come in and get him. He said he called Josie from jail later that night and also spoke with bp, but he didn't speak with Alexavier because he thought Alexavier was fine when he left for jail. Derek said he was at work when Alexavier's femur fracture occurred and that Josie told him Alexavier fell down the stairs after his little sister pushed him. He said he had no reason not to believe the story, which Alexavier himself repeated to him. Josie also told him that the day before he broke his leg, he Alexavier had slipped on ice at school and accidentally done a split, which she said hyperextended his leg and injured his hip. Derek told the investigators that he didn't hear about Alexavier's fall down the stairs until later on the day it happened and that Josie told him she thought the leg was sprained. He said he, Josie and the kids went to a birthday party that day where Alexavier played but didn't want to walk on his leg. As far as the injury went, Derek said he didn't notice any swelling or redness on Alexavier's leg, which he said his son had been favoring before they went to the party, although he appeared to be fine when sitting down the next day. Derek said Alexavier was screaming while on the phone with him and Derek literally ran from work to the hospital because his son was crying and in pain. He said if he brought up his opinion to Josie, she would get defensive. When they finally took Alexavier to the hospital, Josie insisted they take him to Mayo in Rochester, Minnesota because she didn't trust the hospitals or CPS in La Crosse County. Special Agent Frederick brought up the autopsy and told Derek the prednisone Josie claimed Alexavier got into wouldn't have killed him. Derek said a detective told him that his son died around 5am Derek asked why 911 wasn't called until 9am and then asked to take a break. On February 28, social workers met again with Derek at his cousin's home. He still hadn't been back to the home he shared with Josie and the children. When asked about how things were at home over the past three to four months, he said he and Josie had been struggling with their relationship and he had been working a lot to make ends meet. Throughout their relationship, he said things were.
- [31:19]
Josie Dyckman
Intense and he has not always been a good partner. He has put his hands on Josie and the kids have seen that when he drinks it is not good, but he is now committed to being sober and has not drank since before 2, 1023.
- [31:32]
Lane (Podcast Host)
He said he always felt the need to make peace because Josie wanted nothing to do with Jenna's family and got mad when Alex spent time with them. He said he felt caught in the middle of everyone and wasn't doing a good job in any area. Derek told the social workers that he never saw Josie treat Alexavier differently or act aggressively toward him. If he had, he said, he would have sent Alexavier to his Grandma Cheryl's where his older sister AP was staying. As for the status of his relationship with Josie now, Derek said he didn't know. He said even if Alexavier's death came.
- [32:07]
Josie Dyckman
Back as an accident, he had trusted her to keep my kids safe and that didn't happen and I don't know how I can get past that.
- [32:14]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The following day, investigators conducted a recorded interview with Josie's best friend, Laura Lee Rains, who Josie claimed she was on the phone with late into the night from February 10th into the 11th. Again, police found evidence on Josie's phone that they spoke from 10.44pm till 11pm on the 10th and didn't communicate again until the following morning. However, Laura Lee told the investigators that when she was talking to Josie that night, she heard Josie say, alex, you.
- [32:41]
Josie Dyckman
Have to go to sleep. It's almost 11:30.
- [32:45]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Laura Lee said she heard Alex respond.
- [32:47]
Josie Dyckman
With something like, I want to find out what I can get into.
- [32:50]
Lane (Podcast Host)
She also told the investigators that Alexavier was known to get into things and move items around in the home. The investigators also talked to Laura Lee about the birthday party the family attended shortly after Alexavier's femur was broken. The party in question was her son's and took place on January 14th. During the party, Laura Lee said Alexavier had to be carried into her other son's room and they used a timer to rotate, putting ice on his leg, which she said was swelling. Remember in his interview with police on February 21, Derek had said he noticed no swelling of Alexavier's leg after the incident. After the party, Laura Lee said Josie had to carry Alexavier out to the car on her hip because he couldn't walk. Laura Lee told Josie that Alexavier should go to a doctor, but they didn't take him until January 16th, which was two days later, not the next day as both Josie and Derek had claimed. As you might remember from the last episode, Josie experienced a traumatic brain injury after Derek choked her and slammed her head on the floor in early 2019. Laura Lee said her aunt mentioned she was concerned that if Josie had done something to Alexavier, she would get off because of her brain injury. The investigators questioned Laura Lee about how Josie behaved with her brain injury and Lauralee said she drove a vehicle, didn't have trouble walking or speaking, didn't have significant cognitive problems, often suffered a headache around her left eye and sometimes stumbled when she walked, but mostly walked normally. She said she thought Josie was doing pretty good for having brain damage. Investigators looked at Alexavier's school records which showed that of the 175 days of school during the 2021-22 school year when Alex Xavier was in kindergarten, he was absent 61 days. Twelve of those absences were documented as remote learning and seven were documented as family during the 2022-23 school year, from the beginning of the year until the date of Alexavier's death, Alexavier was absent 40 of those 101 days. Eight year old MH underwent a second forensic interview on March 2, during which he described the day before Alexavier's death, saying his brother had to eat ramen with hot sauce in it for lunch even though he didn't like it. That night, he said the family ordered pizza for dinner. His mom wouldn't give Alexavier any pizza. Instead she made him eat his younger siblings pizza crust because they didn't like it. When his dad was around. He said Alexavier got his own pizza. But on that night when Derek got home, Josie told him Alexavier had already eaten his pizza. MH said that before Alexavier broke his leg, he wasn't allowed to run around and play with the other kids when his dad wasn't around. Instead, he would have to either sit on the couch or sit on the bed and fold socks. When Derek was around, Alexavier was permitted to play with his siblings. The interviewer asked about Alexavier's leg before he fell down the stairs. MH said he knew Alexavier was already having a hard time getting around and his leg was already hurting. He said he wasn't there when their little sister pushed Alexavier down the stairs. When asked if he saw Alexavier hurt his leg, MH described an incident during a time when Derek wasn't home in which he saw Alexavier on the floor of Josie's bedroom where his mom was bending Alexavier's leg way back, pushing it forward toward his head. Alexavier was crying, MH said and Josie.
- [36:21]
Josie Dyckman
Told him if you don't stop crying, I'm going to do it harder.
- [36:25]
Lane (Podcast Host)
When asked if Josie had ever done something like this to him or any of the other children, MH said no. During the same incident, MH said Josie also choked Alexavier with one hand around his throat. He remembered Alexavier was moving around and kicking a lot while Josie choked him. He went to get their younger brother saying their mom listened to BP more than she listened to him, but he didn't remember how the choking came to an end. As for Alexavier's stair fall, MH asked their little sister about it and she told him she didn't push Alexavier down the stairs. However, MH said Arp lied a lot and got away with a lot of things because she was little. When asked if his mom ever told him not to tell anyone about the things she did to Alexavier, MH nodded yes, saying that happened the day that.
- [37:14]
Josie Dyckman
He went to the doctor for the broken leg.
- [37:17]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Forensic interviews were again scheduled for 10 year old JB and Josie's 12 year old son Ze for the next day, but Becky texted on March 2, once again stating concerns about the effects of trauma. The worker encouraged her to bring the children because police were requesting the interview. That didn't happen. Becky put off the interview again, CPS reports stated.
- [37:41]
Josie Dyckman
According to Becky, she spoke with both JB and Ze yesterday about the interviews and got JB to agree to come. However, JB started throwing up yesterday night and is not feeling well and Ze is refusing to come.
- [37:54]
Lane (Podcast Host)
As of the week of May 22, JB and Ze had not yet undergone forensic interviews. At this point, nearly four months have passed since Alexavier's death. Now, time for one last sponsor break. Doctor Allison N. Glowacki, a pediatric specialist at Gunderson Hospital, was interviewed at the La Crosse County Sheriff's Office. She had seen Alexavier when he came to the hospital in January for his broken femur. She had concerns of child abuse at the time. She took multiple photos and measurements of Alexavier's injuries during that visit, all of which were documented. She told the investigators that Alexavier had several skin injuries, including small injuries on his pinky finger, right eyebrow bruising on his forehead, scabbed abrasions on his shoulder, bruising on his left elbow, petechia or small bruising across his buttocks, a healing pattern injury on his lower back, large cavities in his teeth, which she said can indicate neglect, his fractured femur, an injured pelvis and multiple bruises in a line on his left arm. She said all of his skin injuries didn't coincide with the story about falling down the stairs. Dr. Glacki said Derek and Josie claimed the patterned injury on Alexavier's back was probably a carpet burn. However, they also told her the stairs he fell down were wood and the basement floor was smooth concrete. They gave varying information about the height of the staircase, saying it was between 10 to 15 or between 15 to 20 stairs. In Dr. Glaci's opinion, the scabbing on Alexavier's abrasions looked older than it would if it had occurred just the day before. The doctor described Derek as being comforting to his son in the hospital, lying in bed with him to soothe him, and said Derek seemed to her like a concerned, respectful parent. Josie, however, stood over the doctor's shoulder while she took pictures and questioned every move. Josie was not comforting Alexavier, instead seeming to be interrogating him. When Alexavier told Dr. Glwacki how his injury happened, she said he kept looking at Josie or deferring to her. She said the family told her about the birthday party they said Alexavier was playing at the day before, and she said it was pretty unlikely he was playing and walking around with his broken femur Josie expressed annoyance about CPS being involved, saying to the doctor, you can't.
- [40:29]
Josie Dyckman
Do anything or bring your child here without being accused of something.
- [40:33]
Lane (Podcast Host)
She also got heated with a nurse, saying the nursing staff was alleging abuse. Dr. Glacki became emotional during her interview. She told the investigators that the night she saw Alexavier in January, she told a nurse that if they ever saw him come back, he would be dead. She said such situations can only escalate so far before a child dies, and she felt Alexavier's abuse was going in that direction. She found out about his death when she heard it on the radio. Looking back, Dr. Gluacki said her general impression of Alexavier's condition was that most.
- [41:08]
Josie Dyckman
Likely he was suffering abuse at the hands of Josie.
- [41:11]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Other medical staff were also interviewed as part of the police investigation. On March 10, Sergeant Williams interviewed Dr. Scott Baziner at Gunderson Health center, who was on call when Alexavier came in with his broken leg. The doctor said he noticed something on the X ray of Alexavier's pelvis and the parents told him the boy had been in a car accident. He said Alex's femur fracture was angled backwards, but most people who broke their femur falling down the stairs would flex the other way. He described the break as high energy and was reluctant to say a fall down the stairs would cause this injury. Dr. Bassiner said, I think for a.
- [41:50]
Josie Dyckman
Human to create the force that it would take to break that bone in that way, I'd struggle to say it wouldn't have to be something intentional. I think you would have to make a significant effort to do that by.
- [42:01]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Looking at the break. He said he was of the opinion that something would have to strike the leg with force or it would have to be something heavy. He also said the child would not have been able to function the way the parents described at the birthday party. The pain would have been immediate and terrible. The same day, Sergeant Williams also interviewed Nurse Kim Bacalarz, also from Gunderson. She was the night shift nurse Josie argued with. She had known in advance that a child was being transferred from Mayo Hospital in Minnesota, and she said she had.
- [42:32]
Josie Dyckman
Concerns of non accidental trauma, saying the X ray was indicative of battered child syndrome.
- [42:39]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The nurse described Alexavier's skin injuries as being in different stages of healing and not matching the story of the current injury. She heard one of the doctors ask Alexavier how the injury happened and he told them he slipped on the ice at school. Josie told them he fell down the stairs. The doctor asked Alexavier if his sister was there when he fell and he looked to Josie for the answer. Josie mentioned that he had slipped at school, which was why he was walking slowly on the stairs when his sister pushed him. Nurse Bacalarz, who had worked for four years in Gunderson's pediatric unit, described Josie's interactions with Alexavier as defensive and intervening. Josie also said to the nurse that.
- [43:20]
Josie Dyckman
She can't seek care without being accused or investigated, and the nurse replied that.
- [43:24]
Lane (Podcast Host)
It'S their job to protect children, which is why they have protocols in place.
- [43:29]
Josie Dyckman
Josie retorted, it's my job as a mother to keep him safe.
- [43:33]
Lane (Podcast Host)
The nurse never saw Josie once comfort.
- [43:35]
Josie Dyckman
Alexavier, saying, I never saw those parental signs of comfort between Josie and Alexavier.
- [43:42]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Other nurses from both Mayo and Gunderson were interviewed, all of whom felt many of Alexavier's injuries could not have occurred the day before based on their stages of healing, such as scabs over wounds and bruises already turning green or yellow. A nurse from Mayo pointed out she found it odd that when Alexavier arrived around 2pm that day, he was wearing a diaper. On March 27, a caseworker met with Derek again at his cousin's home. He said Jenna would be released the following Wednesday and that they may look for a place together. He said they wanted to try and had been able to reconnect. He couldn't define his current relationship with Josie, but he couldn't be with her after what happened. He denied spending nights with Josie, saying he had only gone to the home a couple times, spending time with the children and talking with Josie, but nothing more, the report stated.
- [44:33]
Josie Dyckman
Derek shares concerns that Josie is telling him he is abandoning his children. He states he is not, but needs time to grieve. He also states that although he does not like Becky, he is okay with the children being there since they have their basic needs met and does not want to add more trauma to them.
- [44:49]
Lane (Podcast Host)
In the next breath. After questioning why he couldn't have his children and learning it was because of the ongoing death investigation, Derek questions why.
- [44:57]
Josie Dyckman
Becky is a safe provider if Josie contacted her first before calling 911. He also questions why Josie did not call 911 right away after finding Alex and why there was time between her calling Becky and calling 911. He states the entire situation is weird and doesn't make sense.
- [45:15]
Lane (Podcast Host)
A couple of weeks later, on April 11, Derek told a CPS worker he preferred for the kids to stay with Becky until he found his own place. The next day, an anonymous female caller contacted the CPS hotline, saying she was told by Derek that Josie was staying with her mother, Becky, which she wasn't supposed to be doing because two of her kids were there. The caller also said that many years ago, Becky took the money of a woman she was caring for, and the caller claimed that neither Josie nor Becky were trustworthy and both were liars. On April 14, Derek was charged yet again with felony bail jumping. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for May 2, and the charge was bound over for trial. A status conference is scheduled in that case for June 22nd. Finally, on Friday, May 19th, 2023, Josie Marie Dyckman was arrested on suspicion of first degree intentional homicide. She was held without bond over the weekend in the La Crosse County Jail. A statement by the La Crosse County Sheriff's Office said that Josie was arrested.
- [46:20]
Josie Dyckman
After a thorough investigation involving the Sheriff's.
- [46:23]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Office, the Wisconsin Department of Justice Division of Criminal Investigation and the La Crosse County District Attorney's Office. The next day, despite the arrest, members of Alexavier's family and supporters continued with a planned protest in downtown La Crosse, many wearing their red or white justice for Alexavier T shirts, to bring awareness to the topic of child abuse and to call for child protective services reform. The walk began at Riverside park in La Crosse and headed downtown, ending in front of the county courthouse. Many family members and supporters believe the county did not do enough to prevent Alexavier's death of her grandson. Maternal grandma Cheryl Anderson said, he was.
- [47:04]
Josie Dyckman
A typical little kid that just had fun. He had cousins the same age. They were like the Three Musketeers. It's hard seeing my other grandsons without him. I'm just so sad what he went through.
- [47:15]
Cheryl Anderson (Grandmother)
Well, we're here for my grandson Alexavier, who passed away due to child abuse. And we want to bring child abuse awareness out and if we can help any other child going through this, that's our goal and that's what Alex would want, AJ would want. We miss him dearly. My family all loves him and friends and family, and we just want to get awareness out for child abuse.
- [47:38]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Alexavier's cousin, Raven Holzer also spoke up, saying child abuse is wrong.
- [47:44]
Raven Holzer (Cousin)
Yes, and what happened here is wrong. There are many people that could have prevented this, you know, and it's weighing a lot of my family, the silence, you know, and I understand the investigation, but it's weighing a lot and we feel his voice needs to be heard. What happened should have never happened.
- [48:01]
Lane (Podcast Host)
On Monday, May 22, Josie appeared in court at 1:30pm for her initial appearance, where she was officially charged with first degree intentional homicide, repeated physical abuse of a child causing bodily harm and chronic neglect of a child causing death. All felonies. Many family members and supporters attended, again wearing their justice for Alexavier T shirts. At the hearing, Judge Ramona Gonzalez set Josie's bond at $1 million cash. Outside the courtroom, La Crosse County Sheriff John Siegel told the media that experts from multiple states were consulted during the.
- [48:37]
Josie Dyckman
Investigation, adding, we still have some work to do on this case.
- [48:40]
Law Enforcement Official
As you can imagine, investigators have worked continuously since that morning in February on this incident on this case, developing information and bringing us to the point we.
- [48:53]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Are today, la Crosse County District Attorney Tim Gruenke told reporters, we asked for.
- [48:59]
Law Enforcement Official
A high cash bond because we think it's a danger to the public given her history with the children and the history in this case. And also we're concerned about intimidation of potential witnesses. So we asked for a high cash bond to make sure that those concerns are met.
- [49:12]
Lane (Podcast Host)
Josie's attorney, Christopher Zacher asked for a signature or lower cash bond, saying Josie was a local resident and not a flight risk. Outside the courthouse, Cheryl Anderson told reporters.
- [49:24]
Cheryl Anderson (Grandmother)
I'm absolutely excited that she got the million dollar bond and she'll be behind bars. No other child can get hurt at this moment and we'll get justice for Alex Xavier. I'm just really pleased right now. We love him dearly and we miss him so bad.
- [49:41]
Lane (Podcast Host)
On May 24, Josie's defense filed a motion to modify her bond. Her preliminary hearing took place at 11am on Wednesday, May 31. I haven't yet seen any reports, but if anything of note happened at the hearing, I'll mention it at the beginning of Part three. One more piece of information I should share, courtesy of a comment I noticed last minute on Facebook from Kelly and confirmed by an online obituary, is that Josie's ex boyfriend and co defendant Dustin Michael Barnes, who went by Dusty, died on May 14, 2022, reportedly of a drug overdose. As I do with all of the cases I cover, I'll continue to watch Alex Abier's story and provide updates both on Facebook and in future update episodes of the podcast. In the meantime, please cross all of your fingers that Alexavier will get the justice he deserves and keep this sweet little boy and his loving family in your heart. Foreign. J. Pedron was a first grader at Hinchen Elementary School. He was a little boy who was full of light and life, with a strong personality and a contagious smile. Some family members called him Hammy. He also went by Alex and Aj Alexavier was very close with his mom's brother, his Uncle Justin, who called Alexavier his buddy. He loved helping out at his Uncle Seth's auto shop. He was adored, doted on and well cared for by his loving extended family members. Alexavier loved playing with his many siblings and cousins, thanks to his uncles. He loved watching racing, including his uncle's race cars. He was a big fan of Woody from Toy story and Lightning McQueen from Cars. For next week's episode, I spoke with two of Alexavier's close maternal family members, his cousin Raven Holzer and his aunt Annie Anderson, who were dedicated to keeping Alexavier's memory alive, giving him a voice and protecting other kids like Alexavier. It was a pleasure talking to these two amazing ladies, so tune in to Part three to hear it. My sources for this episode were court documents, CPS reports, the La Crosse Tribune News 8000, GoFundMe News 19, WXOW News 18, WQOW justice for Alexavier on Facebook and TikTok, the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access website EchoVeta and family members of Alexavier. That's it for this episode. Join me next time for Part three. If you like the show, please follow or subscribe to Suffer the Little Children on Apple podcasts, Google Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Spreaker, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast listening app. And please leave me a five star rating and a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Visit the website at sufferthelittlechildrenpod.com you can support the show by visiting patreon.com stlcpod where you can become a patron for rewards ranging from a shout out by name on the show to bonus content and exclusive gifts. You can also support the show at ko-fi.com stlcpod Follow the podcast on Facebook and Instagram at Suffer the Little Children pod and on TikTok tlcpod. View photos Related to today's episode on Facebook. For more stories like the one you heard today, visit sufferthelittlechildrenblog.com this podcast is researched, written, hosted, edited and produced by Lane Intro. Theme music is by Dream Note Music and all music for the show is licensed from audiojungle.net for more information about preventing or reporting Child Abuse, visit childhelp.org or call your area's Child Abuse Hotline. And remember, if you see something, say something.