(Re-Release) Episode 148: Alexavier Pedrin (Part 3)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Suffer the Little Children – (Re-Release) Episode 148: Alexavier Pedrin (Part 3)

Release Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Lane
Guests: Raven Holzer (Alexavier’s cousin), Annie Anderson (Alexavier’s aunt)

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Episode Overview

This emotional and detail-rich episode concludes the three-part coverage of Alexavier Pedrin’s tragic case. Host Lane is joined by two family members, Raven and Annie, who recount Alexavier’s life, the extensive failures by institutions meant to protect him, and their tireless advocacy for justice. The episode weaves together court records, family memories, and direct testimony about systemic failures, culminating in a call for accountability and reform within CPS and related agencies.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Case Developments and Court Testimony

• Autopsy & Legal Progress (01:00–03:30)

  • Dr. Reed Quinton, the pathologist, testified to "a constellation of injuries to the head, trunk and extremities, including about 15 bruises to [Alexavier's] face, scalp and neck alone." (02:50)
  • The level of Xanax in Alexavier’s system "would be elevated even for an adult." Blunt force trauma caused lethal internal bleeding.
  • Judge declined to reduce bond for Josie Dykman, father's girlfriend now charged with murder; preliminary hearing continued.

• Custody Battle Documentation (04:00–09:50)

  • Court records: Josie had a contentious custody situation with her ex, Mark Hellerud Jr., who cited neglect, secret medical decisions, and troubling school attendance.
  • Mark’s affidavit after Alexavier's death: His son recounted witnessing Josie abuse Alexavier, including choking, food punishment, and physical beatings. (07:07)
  • Reports of "Mom would punish Alex really bad... My mom used to stuff apple slices down his throat... My mom broke Alex’s leg before."
    — Sharon Hellerud quoting her grandson, MH (07:07)

2. Remembering Alexavier – Family Memories & Bonds

• Alexavier’s Personality and Early Childhood (10:30–15:22)

  • Deeply bonded with his mother Jenna and older sister; happiest in the country, adored race cars, adored his uncle Justin.
  • "All he wanted to do was fast cars, tractors, big trucks… He loved to fix things. He was a big outdoors kid… He was very hyper."
    — Raven Holzer (10:30)

• Family Connections and Loss (13:30–16:33)

  • Alexavier's cousin and aunt describe him as joyful, busy, always up for adventure with cousins (“the three musketeers”).
  • His younger sister struggled to understand his absence, wishing to "swing high so she can get closer to her brother," and wishing for his return at Christmas.
    — Annie Anderson (15:22)

3. Systemic Failures and Repeated Red Flags

• CPS and School Failures (16:39–23:24)

  • Multiple family pleas, welfare checks, and CPS reports were dismissed or ignored.
  • School staff and teachers failed to act on obvious signs—Absenteeism, bruises, malnourishment: "He’s missing 240 days of school last year... We’re not really concerned. You’re not, it’s not a state law. It is. They are mandatory reporters."
    — Raven (21:54)

• Medical Red Flags and Home Visits (23:24–25:08)

  • Doctors flagged a broken femur as abuse; CPS overruled, returning the child home without adequate follow-up.
  • "At the time of Alexavier's death, there was a chips case that was open because he had a broken femur and he wasn't taken to the hospital for days after it had happened… CPS came in and said, well, we deem them safe and fit and you have to release the child back to the home. And three weeks later, you know, our worst nightmare became reality."
    — Annie (21:54)

4. Patterns of Abuse and Alienation

• Isolation from Maternal Family (16:39–18:40)

  • The father's girlfriend, Josie, allegedly used anger and manipulation to keep Alexavier away from his maternal relatives.
  • "He was completely alienated from my entire family... when we would see him, he would not run up to us."
    — Raven (16:39)

• Direct Accounts of Targeted Abuse (24:45–28:21)

  • Raven shares concerns over injuries excused with dubious explanations (e.g., bug spray in eyes), and a pattern of singling out Alexavier for the worst abuse.

5. Past Abuse and Parental Dynamics

• Cycle of Violence and Jealousy (25:08–28:48)

  • Episode uncovers Josie's repeat abuse history dating back to 2013, marked by drug use and child neglect, and rumors she targeted Alexavier due to issues with his mother Jenna.
  • "I believe that it had to do with Josie the perpetrator being Jenna’s victim. As to why she was targeting her son—because she can’t hurt Jenna anymore, but she can hurt her son."
    — Annie (24:49)

• Complex Blended Family Histories (27:45–30:22)

  • Explains overlapping pregnancies, betrayals, and broken relationships fueling household instability.

6. Institutional Deflections and Lack of Accountability

• Failures of Child Protective Services (37:40–66:18)

  • Family reports repeated systematic stonewalling, records “disappearing,” and being accused of harassment for seeking help.
  • "We got a lot of, oh, that’s not our department. You have to talk to this team. My question is: you are all government employees. The well being of the community should be your number one goal."
    — Annie (62:34)

• Professional Apathy, Excuses, and Immunity

  • "Immunity shouldn't be as strong as it is… How do they get held accountable for the things that they mess up? And I mean, because, oh well, I messed up. There's a dead kid. So... Well, moving on."
    — Annie/Raven (63:49)

• Emotional Toll and Advocacy

  • Raven laments: "The same people that failed him are still working with other children, are still working the case with her children. And it’s disgusting..." (64:01)

7. Personal Impact, Grief, and Fighting for Change

• Lingering Trauma and Desire for Justice (47:08–69:42)

  • Raven and Annie detail the heartbreaking experience of learning of Alexavier's death, blaming themselves, and navigating a broken support system.
  • "I’m not going to settle or be quiet about his justice… I’m not going to stop for other children. There’s a lot of victims…"
    — Raven (56:04)

• Impact on Surviving Children and Family

  • Survivors devastated, little sister’s coping mechanisms highlight psychological damage.
  • Plans for a celebration of life are on hold due to ongoing investigation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On institutional refusal:
  "You don't use kids as a pawn or a paycheck." — Annie (30:11)

• On repeated failures:
  "Your ignorance is going to be the reason children die." — Raven confronting CPS (18:43)

• After the final welfare check:
  "If my suspicions are valid, that's imminent danger. And I'm like, you please call Derek to see if I can pick him up… I know for a fact we do not have until Monday." — Raven (40:52)

• On seeking accountability:
  "Policies and procedures take priority precedence over the life of a child or a human being. Like, that does not make any sense to me." — Annie (63:18)

• On public apathy:
  "So many people knew and saw these signs. I could never. I don’t understand humanity as much in this area and the ignorance that plays a role here because I have never seen so much of it in my life." — Raven (45:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:50] – Court testimony: Pathologist discusses injuries and Xanax
• [07:07] – Sharon Hellerud affidavit: Child recounts abuse in chilling detail
• [10:30] – Raven and Annie share memories of Alexavier's early life
• [16:39] – Discussion of family’s attempts (and failures) to stay in Alexavier’s life
• [21:54] – School and CPS failures, evidence of neglect, and missed mandatory reporting
• [24:49] – Abuse patterns, alienation, and Josie’s motivations
• [37:40] – Systemic CPS failures and emotional family reaction to lack of intervention
• [47:08] – Aftermath: Family’s grief, anger, and determination to seek justice
• [63:18, 64:01] – Calls for systemic reform and emotional struggle as failed authorities continue to work with children

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Tone and Speaker Language

The conversation is raw, emotional, and direct. Raven and Annie speak with a mixture of love for Alexavier, heartbreak over his suffering and loss, and palpable frustration and anger at systemic inaction. The host, Lane, maintains a compassionate but pointed style, frequently affirming the guests’ feelings, highlighting institutional failures, and underscoring the need for public accountability.

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Closing Sentiment

The episode ends with the family reaffirming their commitment to seeking justice not only for Alexavier but for other children at risk: "If we just save one child, it would be worth it." (47:08)
Lane promises, “Alexavier will never be forgotten,” echoing the episode’s central mission to bear witness and advocate for systemic change.

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Resources

If you suspect child abuse, visit childhelp.org or call your local child abuse hotline.
For more survivor stories and advocacy information, visit Suffer the Little Children Blog.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

Warren Chee it's an energy someone gives off when their appliances and home systems are protected by an American Home Shield warranty.

[B]

Don't worry, be warranty for 20% off plans. Visit ahs.com listen see ahs.com contracts for coverage details, including limit amounts, fees, limitations and exclusions.

[A]

This podcast contains descriptions of violence against children and adult language and is not suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Sa. Hi everyone and welcome to Suffer the Little Children, the true crime podcast giving voices back to the victims of child abuse and shining a harsh spotlight on the parents, guardians and caretakers who silenced them. I'm your host Lane, and this is episode 148, Alexavier Pedrin part three. Over the last two episodes, I told you the story of Alexavier Pedrin, whose six years were marred by family turmoil, alleged abuse and neglect and CPS involvement. On February 11, 2023, Alexavier was found dead in his family's rented home in Madeiri, Wisconsin, with multiple inflicted injuries and Xanax in his system. Three months later, his father's girlfriend, 31 year old Josie Dykman, was finally arrested and charged with Alexavier's murder. For this episode, I had the honor of speaking with two close members of Alex Aver's maternal his cousin Raven Holzer and his aunt Annie Anderson, who are dedicated to keeping Alexavier's memory alive, giving him a voice, and protecting other kids like Alexavier. This is part three of the infuriating story of Alexavier Pedrin. Before you hear my conversation with Raven and Annie, I I have some additional case information for you. Josie Dykman's preliminary hearing began on Wednesday, May 31, 2023 in La Crosse County Circuit Court before Judge Elliot Levine. On that day, only one witness testified for the prosecution, and that was Dr. Reed Quinton, the pathologist who performed Alexavier's autopsy. Dr. Quinton told the court Alexavier suffered.

[C]

A constellation of injuries to the head.

[A]

Trunk and extremities, including about 15 bruises to his face, scalp and neck alone. He also mentioned that he would consider the level of Xanax found in the six year old system as elevated even for an adult. According to Dr. Quinton, the benzodiazepine lowered Alexavier's respiratory drive at a time when he was already suffering from blunt force injuries to his brain, liver and pancreas. Those injuries, the doctor said, resulted in.

[C]

About 100ml of blood just free within his abdominal cavity.

[A]

Judge Levine maintained Josie's existing bond of $1 million after Dr. Quinton testified. The hearing was continued until June 9, at which time Josie's defense attorney, Chris Zacher, again plans to raise the issue of reducing her bond. Once testimony is complete in Josie's preliminary hearing, Judge Levine will decide if there's enough evidence for the case to proceed to trial. Since I released parts one and two last week, I received more court documentation, this time regarding the custody battle between Josie Dyckman and her ex boyfriend Mark Hellerud Jr. Some of the information provided in these court documents supports the notion that by the time Alexavier died on February 11, Josie had no business having children in her career. It also points strongly toward her character. In 2020, Josie and Mark shared 5050 custody of their son MH who turned 6 that June. Around the same time, Mark filed a motion asking the court to give him primary placement of his son and to give Josie only supervised visitation every other weekend. Mark requested that Josie's boyfriend Alexavier's father, Derek Pedron, not be allowed to attend these visitations, saying he had concerns about Derek possibly hitting MH. At a court hearing in March of 2021, Mark provided testimony that Josie took MH to the doctor at age 5 and had him put on sleep medication without letting Mark know. Mark said he had never observed his son having sleep issues and Josie never mentioned anything to him before that either. Mark also mentioned that MH missed a lot of school when he was with his mother. Mark testified that MH was seeing a school counselor named Mr. Schmidt regularly, but Josie put an end to it, saying she didn't want any one on one conversations with any of her kids taking place at school. During Josie's testimony at the same hearing, she explained that she didn't trust the school counselor, saying she didn't believe Mr. Schmidt was honest and that she wasn't comfortable with any of her children talking to him. In a sworn affidavit Mark filed prior to the hearing, he said that MH.

[C]

Told him, dad, we should go talk to Mr. Schmidt and tell him that mom is a liar. Mom told Mr. Schmidt that you hurt me.

[A]

Mr. Schmidt even submitted a letter to.

[C]

The court saying, In February of 2020, I received a phone call from Josie Dykman that stated MH is afraid to go home to his dad's house because he was getting hit with a belt. I investigated this situation as I would any child safety concern. Upon interviewing MH in my office, I had come to find out there was no evidence to support Josie's claim. In fact, MH was happy to go to Mark's house and said dad never hits him or has left any marks on him.

[A]

At the March 2021 hearing, Josie testified that the reason the children were taken by Minnesota's Houston County CPS for a 72 hour hold while the family lived in Brownsville, Minnesota was because Josie and Derrick's daughter Arp sustained a fractured clavicle, which Josie said happened when she fell off a stool in the kitchen. The children were returned after 72 hours and the CPS case was not substantiated. Also in Mark's affidavit, he mentioned an incident in which MH told Mark's parents, Mark Sr. And Sharon Hellerud, do you.

[C]

Know what Derek did to me? He smacked me in the face. Derek is mean to me when mom is not around.

[A]

Mark also wrote that MH told him.

[C]

Mom and Derek fight a lot as well as I remember Derek hitting my mom.

[A]

Finally, in another affidavit filed with the court on February 15, 2023, just four days after Alexavier's death, Mark's mother, Sharon.

[C]

Hellerud Things MH has said to me since Saturday 21123 I know my mom killed Alex several times. Why did she have to kill my favorite brother? What if Jenna kills one of my mom's kids? What if it is me? I hope it's not me. My mom would punish Alex really bad. She would put both her hands around his neck and choke him. My little brother BP would cry and scream for her to stop. My mom would stop and then choke Alex again when BP left the room. This happened a lot. Alex would get up in the middle of the night to steal food. My mom would punish him bad. Alex couldn't have ranch or ketchup on his food. My mom always put hot sauce on all his food, even his ramen noodles. My mom used to stuff apple slices down his throat. My mom broke Alex's leg before ARP pushed him down the stairs. I know because Alex had to use furniture to walk before he fell down the step. I was outside when my mom broke Alex's leg, but I know she did it. Alex was up Thursday night sneaking food again. Alex was punished bad by my mom. Alex wasn't allowed to play with toys. Mom didn't do bad stuff to Alex when Derek was home. Sometimes she would keep Alex home from school. Just Alex.

[A]

The things these children saw are absolutely horrifying and I am 100% positive we haven't heard nearly all of it. Josie claimed in her testimony that there was no ongoing domestic violence in their home, that Derek did not physically abuse the children, and that the criminal charges from 2019 when Derek assaulted her was.

[C]

A one time thing.

[A]

Mark's attorney pointed out to her on the restraining order from that incident that Josie wrote on the document that Derek.

[C]

Uses violent, violent force towards the children.

[A]

Later in her testimony, though, she claimed.

[C]

That Derek and MH have always had a good relationship. Derek never even disciplines my kids that are not his.

[A]

She also claimed that at the time she was charged in 2013 with child neglect for the malnutrition and fractured hands and feet of her boyfriend's daughter. Both she and her now deceased ex boyfriend, Dustin Barnes, were addicted to methamphetamine. She claimed her punishment for that crime, which was three years of probation, one year of electronic monitoring and drug court changed her life, saying she no longer used any controlled substances. The court at that time ruled against giving Mark primary custody, choosing to continue the current 5050 arrangement and saying, I.

[C]

Don'T see any child abuse a parent.

[A]

In February of 2023, after Alexavier's death, the court temporarily revised the custody order, allowing Josie only short term supervised visits with MH during the police investigation. The court order explicitly stated that Josie.

[C]

May not reside at either Becky Ehlers or Ann Ehler's household and may not stay overnight. If MH is staying overnight.

[A]

I'll take a break here for a word from my sponsors. Please enjoy my recent conversation with Raven and Annie.

[D]

Hi, I'm Annie Anderson. I am Alexavier's aunt.

[B]

I'm Raven Holzer. I'm Alex Xavier's cousin.

[A]

Hi.

[E]

Thank you guys both so much for joining me today. Really. We can start wherever you're comfortable.

[B]

Alex Xavier was born on July 10th of 2016. He was full time with his mom and his sister. She's eight years older. Those two were very, very close growing up. She was like super happy. She was going to be a big sister. My aunt and AJ's mom did miscarry between and Alex Xavier. So Alex Xavier was like a huge thing for them. And I used to spend a lot of time with Jenna and and AJ at their house a lot. I would help, like babysit or whatever all the time. I know Alex Xavier grew a relationship, very strong, healthy relationship with my Uncle Justin. Those two were like super close. Alex Xavier's dad wasn't really in his life in the beginning. He really wasn't in his life at all up until he met this girl that did all these terrible things to him. But Justin was more of like a dad type figure to him. Like people would always ask him, like, oh, my God, is this your son? Because they were so close. Alexavier loved race cars, like, especially as, like a little boy, like three years old. All he wanted to do was fast cars, tractors, big trucks. He was really into cars itself, not just racing. He was really into all that stuff. Like, there's times he would go and help my stepdad and my uncle at the shop, even if it's like holding a flashlight or tool or something. He loved to do that. He loved to fix things. He was a big outdoors kid. He loved to be outside. No matter what kind of weather it was, he wanted to be outside all the time. He was very hyper every. Yeah, busy every single hour of every day. He was down to do anything for a first while up until like, he was three. Even then, he did have an issue falling asleep at night like he was a night owl. I will say that. Like, he wants to get up and play at like 1:30 in the morning or 2 in the morning. That was breakfast time for him sometimes. He was very attached to Jenna. I know there's been times where his dad would literally turn around and drop him back off before even getting off the road that leads to her house out in the country road there, because he would be screaming and crying, and he was just like, oh, I can't deal with this. I don't want to deal with this. He clearly just wants his mom. And Jonah, well, obviously would openly take him back home. It hurt her a lot for him to go when he was acting like that. And this is between, like 2 and 3, even younger, when he started realizing, like, I don't really like my dad, maybe 18 months. He was really big on swimming. He loved to swim. He loved water. Oh, he liked the toys. He liked the guy from Toy Story, Woody and cars.

[D]

So he liked Lightning McQueen too.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And so my husband is Justin, and so Justin was his buddy. And Justin's race car was red. So then Alex's favorite color was red. Before that, his race car was blue. And Alex's favorite color was blue. Like, that was just the connection and the bond that they had. And he felt so safe and just loved by my husband. And my husband, you know, wouldn't have it any other way. You know, like Raven said, he's extremely busy, happy, fun, silly. Like, he was such a blast to have around. There's multiple kids in the family, and it's kind of like stair step. Right? Like, they're all cousins, but they're right around the same age. There's two brothers and Alex. Those three would run around together all the time. So it Was like the three musketeers, and they were, like, best friends. Like, they were together all the time. So when it came to a point where we didn't get to see Alex anymore, it really took a toll on the entire family. Like, it wasn't just hard for the adults in the situation. It was really, really hard for the kids as well, because they lost one of their best friends.

[B]

He also has a younger sister. She's four. She remembers Alex pretty well. She and him had a close bond as well, kind of well. She's also very close with all the cousins, too. It's just like, one very tight friendship between all of them. She understands that he's not here anymore, that she's not going to be able to see him anymore, but she's still confused.

[D]

Like, when she swings on the swing, she wants to swing high so she can get closer to her brother. Her Christmas wish for from Santa was to see her brother and have her brother come home for Christmas. And she started wearing his winter coat that was left behind just because she missed him so much. And this was at the beginning of, you know, this past winter. So it was October, November, and he had passed in February. So, I mean, her not having her brother connection was really hard for her, too. It just ripped all of our hearts out, and we couldn't do anything to get him back. We tried and tried and tried, like, even just to see him or have a visit with him. My husband would message Alex's dad and say, you know, we really miss him. We have a birthday party coming up if you want to bring all. All the kids to the party. We would love to have you so we can see Alex. And we just wouldn't get a response. Or we would get, okay, yeah, we can do that. And then last minute, it would be, oh, something came up, or he's sick or we're not gonna make it. You know, just things like that.

[E]

Meanwhile, their kids are telling the investigators, oh, no, they wouldn't let him come to see us because it made Josie angry.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

Yep. And there was a time that was also going over to dad and the girlfriends, and it came to a point where it was taking a toll on her emotionally and mentally. She witnessed so many things for her age. This woman has traumatized her. And I can say the events with her father as well have, too, because there had been times where she would beg her father, please, can I see Alex? Can he just come for the day? Can he come with us to go see Mom? Because mom was incarcerated at the time in Missouri. And either he wouldn't respond for a couple days or weeks, or he would come up with an excuse like, alex is going camping. And it'd be, like, random, like, well, you didn't tell me when on the phone last night. You guys are going camping or just an excuse for everything? Well, Alex is playing outside right now with his brothers. Okay. He was completely alienated from my entire family. Like, it was to the point where when he would see us, he would not run up to us. Like, I know when I saw him in August of last year, my grandma and I and stopped over there at the dad's girlfriend's house. We wanted to see if we showed up physically and asked if we could take AJ To Missouri with us to go see his mom. If that was something his dad would allow. The dad would be like, no, maybe next time. Like, everything was next time, or, no, I can't trust you with him. Well, you trust us with him for the first three, four years of his life. So it's super frustrating on those aspects, you know? And he felt like my family were overstepping our boundaries with his parenting style and our respect for Alex Xavier. We're not overstepping boundaries. When his mom hasn't talked to him since his birthday. The last time that my aunt talked to him was July 10th of 21 on his birthday. She has not been able to talk.

[E]

To him since 2021.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And then got cut off from Alex Xavier because she was the only one who could talk to him on FaceTime or phone calls. I can't remember the last time I physically saw him was at Walmart in November. And he was bundled up. Obviously, it was cold outside, but he looked so pale and dehydrated. And I remember that was a time when I would call, finding out that the dad also just had a domestic violence incident with her. And I called and did a CPS report. And they're like, you can't just report somebody because you don't like them. And, you know, I said, like, this is how children die. Is your ignorance is going to be the reason children die? And she laughed in my face, and I completely lost my marbles. And I started just doing welfare checks. So I'm like, clearly, I'm not getting through here, and you guys aren't taking me seriously. They're like, well, do you have proof of the abuse? I didn't know at this point in time I needed to have proof of a child being abused rather than my concern. My aunt was not able to get any school reports they told us we had to get an attorney. The administrator of the school said that through an email that we need to get an attorney because Josie was listed as his mom. You know, Jenna even put in birth certificates, Social Security numbers, a marriage certificate because her last name wasn't the same last name as his. But I'm like, neither is Josie's right? So I don't understand what's wrong with the school. But she even moved to Minnesota in 2019 and kept the kids at a school in lacrosse district, which is this Hinon elementary. She did not want to transfer these children. And I found out what last week when I was doing a bunch of research that on Alaska school district is one of the six schools in Wisconsin that has child victim resources, like one of the best. And I'm like, okay, well this is concerning because you know, she was getting, I don't know how much money, 40, $20 a week gift cards, like three, four times a week to transfer them to school. The school was funding it. You know, you had CPS resources funding it, like Catholic charities here funding her gas cards so she could take her kids to school. Well, the attendance is very concerning. And they never contacted law enforcement or a social worker. They just took her word every single time. After he passed, you know, his school reached out to us and they were like, oh, we're so sorry. And we were like, yeah. And then they sent us a binder. They gave my family members binders of pictures of AJ when he was in school. And there was obvious signs of abuse. He's got bruises, cracked teeth, it looks like broken fingers. His eyes are sunken in, he looks malnourished, he looks dehydrated. It's just disgusting to me how a teacher, a whole school actually sees this child and is like, okay, he's missing 240 days of school last year and now he's missing more school. We're not really concerned. You're not, it's not a state law. It is. They're mandatory reporters.

[D]

My mother in law, Raven's grandma, Alex's grandma as well had called the school just to check on him, just to see how he was doing because you know, it's been such a long time since we were getting a response from the dad as to, to, you know, being able to see him. And we were just concerned and they pretty much poo pooed. My mother in law is like, he's fine, there's nothing wrong with him. And they didn't even look into it. So it's really disheartening. Right. Like there's other kids there that could potentially be in the same situation. And our CPS workers in the area that we live in, I have very little faith in them that they are actually protecting the kids in this area. And my reason for that is at the time of Alexavier's death, there was a chips case that was open because he had a broken femur and he wasn't taken to the hospital for days after it had happened. And when they did take him to the hospital, they checked to see if he had, you know, Tylenol or ibuprofen, any kind of pain medicine in his system, which he did not. Wow. And the doctors there were flagging it as this is abuse. And pretty much CPS came in and said, well, we deem them safe and fit and you have to release the child back to the home. And three weeks later, you know, our worst nightmare became reality.

[E]

Right. Exactly what you predicted.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

The follow ups that CPS was to make with the dad's girlfriend, Josie Dyckman, was that they were supposed to do a home visit. Well, it got delayed because the children supposedly had Covid. They literally took her word for everything. Like, I'm a victim here. They're using my history and they're using all these things against me and his family just hates me. Alex Xavier's mom is just trying to kill me. Like all this victim nonsense, it was sickening. My family knew within our guts and our intuitions something was going on. For two years we've had these suspicions. Two years, our reports have not changed. Why are you suspicious? Why are you calling? Because we see something new and we're like, this is a red flag. Like, I didn't finish. But In August of 2020, he ran up to the car when we were going to leave for Missouri. His eyes were bloodshot, like, literally red. They looked infected, like he was going to go blind. And I said, what happened? He said, I don't know. So then I asked Derek, I said, what happened to his eyes? And he said, oh, I accidentally sprayed bug spray in his eyes. I'm like, did you take him to the er? Did you call the poison control? Are you kidding me? I'm like, out of all the kids I'm looking at, he's the one who has bug spray in his eyes. I was like, B.S.

[E]

Yeah. I mean, you could tell he was being targeted.

[B]

Oh, of course, Absolutely. And.

[D]

And I honestly, in my heart of hearts, I believe that it had to do with Josie the perpetrator being Jenna's victim. As to why she was targeting her son because she can't hurt Jenna anymore, but she can hurt her son.

[B]

I do know this. I do know, and I have heard from a reliable source that Josie did it to keep Derek away from Jenna. Because Derek And Josie have two little kids together, younger than A.J. and she thought that, you know, if we get rid of AJ Then it would just be, you know, their perfect little family. She forgot that is still Eric's daughter, you know, and it's just weird that Derek will give us, we can see all we want, and she can make decisions for herself after she threatens that if you don't let me stay at my grandma's, I'm going to tell everybody everything that's going on here. She would send her dad numerous, numerous messages saying, please, Dad, I don't like being at that house. Please let me talk to Alex. Please let him come here. You know, she's just manipulating you. You know, she's abusive towards you. I don't like you guys fighting. Basically telling him all her traumas and all her concerns. And again, this is, like, hard for her to do because her dad is manipulating her and would be like, come on, your mom did all this. Your mom did all this. And Jonah's relationship is super tight, but choose Jenna over her dad. Like, it's always just been and Jenna and back in the day again. I used to be around and Jenna all the time before AJ was even born. Derek and Jenna had a lot of domestic violence. Derek was very, very, very, very abusive towards Jenna. Physically, emotionally, mentally, every single way. Jenna has been a victim of Derek's abuse for years. I have literally seen him choke her and do terrible things to her. And it got to a point where she really did leave him. And this is when he got with Josie and There was a 50, 50 order placed in 2019 for 5050 custody between Jenna and Derek with Alex Xavier. I don't remember the date, but there was a time frame, but I think it was like January 11th to January 13th, I believe in 2019, Derek and Josie were now together and they would take the kids for the weekend, you know, 5050 thing. And, well, Alex Xavier came back and it was concerning because he had a bruise on the tip of his nose.

[D]

Forehead, and his chin and his chin.

[B]

And he also had a bruise going horizontally down his right arm as if someone grabbed his arm very aggressively. And my aunt took him in for this. She took him to the hospital, make sure there was nothing else wrong with him. Jenna knew about Josie's abuse. Jenna knows who Josie is.

[E]

They were friends in high school, I read somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

So they have known each other a long time.

[D]

Yeah. And they have mutual friends as well. Now, when John, I got pregnant with Alexavier, you know, she was halfway through her pregnancy, and Derek said, do you know where I can get a crib? Because I have another baby coming. Well, come to find out, Josie was pregnant. So Derek was cheating on Jenna with Josie, and Josie wanted to have her happy little family. And get Jenna and them out of it is, you know, kind of silly because she's the one that crossed some boundaries.

[E]

That just tells you right there, it was all jealousy that she wanted him all to herself, and that was the whole reason. And once was out of the picture, then AJ was the only one left to take the brunt of her anger and jealousy. It's so awful.

[B]

Right? And what's interesting is with this little girl in 2013 with Dustin Barnes, that was the dad of this little girl. Josie actually had a kid with him too. And I'm gonna have to say they were pregnant at the same time as well.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Josie got pregnant with Dustin at the same time. This little girl's mom was also pregnant. And it's just, like, she repeated history, and it's so sickening, and it's super upsetting because she's satisfied with what she has done to these children, and she's, like, protecting her children. And, like, your children have witnessed things that no child should ever witness. They're literally afraid of her. And one of her children did report it to the father, and the father was fighting for years for custody of him, and he just got slammed down every single time.

[E]

That must have been Mark.

[B]

Yep, that's Mark Hellerude.

[E]

Okay, so he fought for years. That's good to know.

[B]

Yeah. He knew that there was something really wrong with this woman.

[D]

Know, when it came to Josie and the first case in 2013 there, that's when her and Mark kind of started seeing each other. Like, it was a on andof thing. And he's like, what do you mean, you're on probation? And she's like, oh, it's just a misunderstanding. So, like, he wasn't aware of what type of person she was when they got together. By the time he figured out what the heck was going on, based on the court that was happening and things, she was pregnant.

[E]

She seems like she was very good at doing that just in time.

[D]

Right. Coincidentally, I mean, that way you get more government assistance and things, which is absolutely disgusting. You don't use kids as a pawn Or a paycheck.

[A]

Time for another quick sponsor break.

[B]

She actually has a tbi, Like a traumatic brain injury. We don't know if that's real, right?

[E]

The CPS reports seem to think so. But like you said, they took her word for everything.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, they even said that when he fell at school and did the splits, and that's the reason why he had a pelvic ramus injury. And all these other things in the school reports that we got, there's nothing stating any of those injuries, like him hitting his head on the locker or desk. None of those things are in there. If there is an injury at school, they are to have that noted somewhere. Like, it's like a liability thing, you.

[E]

Would think, especially for kids with so much CPS involvement.

[B]

Right. And so much attendance issues.

[D]

The last time that we were able to see him as a family was on my wedding day, which was Oct. 17 of 21. Alex was in the wedding. We included all the nieces and nephews and sisters and brothers and everything. Like, we are a big loving family. Like, that's just how we are at nature. So. And we were afraid that Alex wasn't going to get to come while he was able to come. So he came and he was there for. For the wedding ceremony, and he was there for a little bit for the pictures. And then all of a sudden, Derek's standing there and he's like, alex, come on, we have to go. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, well, we have a dog's birthday party to go to. Which I was like, okay. And I'm like, well, can he at least eat with us? Well, no, we're gonna eat at the birthday party. And that was literally the last time that my husband was able to see. See his buddy. And he's expressed that I'm glad that it was such a good day for him and he had fun. And it's like when his dad showed up to get him, he was making every excuse, well, I need to finish my snack. I want to finish my soda. I can't find my hat. Where's this? Where's that? Like, he was trying to stall and find every excuse not to go with him. So that was October of 21. And I went to Walmart the day after Thanksgiving in 22. And I just had this weird feeling that I might see them. You know, I kind of brushed it off, whatever. And I'm there and I see a little boy that resembles my nephew, but I wasn't sure. Like, he looked Small. Like, he looked like he hadn't grown at all. Like it could have been his younger brother. I had my daughter with me, and we kind of looped around and I asked my daughter, I said, can you verify, Is that Alex or is it not? And we had to walk around a couple times, and I did not recognize his body. Like, his body looked unrecognizable to me. But the way he looked at me and his eyes and the sadness and like, the cry for help that came from his eyes was so sad. And I couldn't do anything because I knew if I would have said anything to him, he would have got repercussions for that or she would have acted out in the store. And I didn't want the other kids to see that. You know, like when we were kind of explaining how Alex was, he was a fun kid. He was busy, he was hyper, run around, wild. That's not the kid that I seen that day. He just kind of stood there like a zombie, like, very motionless and just kind of went with the flow. Like he was totally broken at that point. I did call and do a welfare check on him with the sheriff's department or the police department, and they said, well, we'll go and check. If you don't hear back from us, no news is good news. And I said, well, I don't know. I hope so. Like, I hope that's the case. That was on a Friday. So that was the Friday after Thanksgiving. So being that it's a holiday weekend, I waited until Monday. And on that Monday, I called and made a CPS report. And I asked what could be done because it's, you know, I kind of gave the whole timeline of it's been a while since we seen him. And when I did see him, I was concerned and I want to make sure that he's okay. We've tried to contact the school. The school's not, you know, helping us as far as making sure that he's okay or easing our mind that he's safe. So when I made the CPS report, they, you know, were asking me questions. Well, is it a possibility that he might just be tired, that he didn't get enough sleep before? And I said, well, quite frankly, anything could be a possibility, right? Like that could be. Or he could be getting abused. And I requested to have in home assessment done on the home just to see how things were there. Like, because I know that there was domestic happening between Josie and Derek. And, you know, the kids being around that isn't healthy. And, you know, I expressed all of these things. And Raven also made a CPS report a couple days prior to me making my phone call. So come to find out, in our last meeting that we had with them just this last year, I believe it was 28th March, we found out that both my report and my request for an assessment and Raven's report were screened out. The day after I made my report, Jenna had actually sent a letter which was basically summarizing the report that Raven had made the few days prior to mine. And they did look into Jenna's report, but they didn't find anything concerning about the home. So they just didn't follow up with it at all. At that point, they didn't feel any need to call the sheriff's department.

[E]

It's so strange because there is so much involvement. It's just so odd that they wouldn't have a special eye on that woman.

[D]

And especially with, you know, the prior stuff that's happening. You think that you would make a note of that as far as, oh, well, this lady has done this before. Maybe we need to keep an eye on her. Even to the effect of. After Alex had passed, Mark had went to court for his son to make sure that he didn't have to go back with his mom. Well, the family court in lacrosse ruled that he. He still had to allow his son to have visitation, so he had to go back with her. And, like, how traumatizing for that child. You know, like, we have a dead child now, and now we're just going to continue to traumatize the other children that were in the home. Like, that's sick to me. And. And your name is Child Protective Services. What children are you protecting in this situation?

[E]

I can't tell you how many cases. Probably about 75% of the stories that I tell involve a failure on CPS's part. It's very upsetting. There's so much that needs to change, and I hate that you guys had to learn that this way.

[D]

Yes. And, I mean, as far as, like, where Raven and I are coming from, it's like, okay, so now this has been done. We can't do anything to bring Alex back, but we need to do something to save kids from being in Alex's spot. And, like, we aren't really quite sure how to navigate that. So we're just trying to do what we can to get our voices out and heard.

[B]

And the night I did that welfare check on February 10th, I actually got a call from his mom, Jenna, and she was like, can you Please call into a welfare check. I just have such a bad feeling. Like I just. And then she got me all anxious and I'm like, oh my God, I understand what she's saying. You know, has not been able to talk to Alex Xavier now in a couple weeks. And it was just becoming a real big concern, like now can't talk to him. This was our last in to seeing how he was doing. So I called, you know, dispatch and I was like, I need a welfare check done on my cousin. I basically told him like, she has a history of child abuse. I know the dad and her just had a domestic violence. I know that he may be at that house. And they have a no contact hoping like when they go and conduct this that if he goes to jail, like he'll allow us to take him. We couldn't get doctor reports, school reports, anything. Everything was a dead end. I was so sick of the dead ends. You have no idea how much time, energy and effort has been put in by multiple family members just to try and talk to him on the phone or get a picture of him or anything. It was just terrible. And like we knew something was going on. We see the flags. We know she is. We just know. So I was like, can you please go check on the well being of Alex Xavier? And they were like, yeah, somebody's going to give you a call back. Well, it was 20 so minutes and I never even got a call back from the sheriffs who were going to conduct it. So I continued going out to eat with some family members. And then I realized when I got out to the car that I had a no ID call me. Which means they called me. And when I called dispatch to get a hold of these guys again, they did talk to me. They said, you know, Derek, they go to jail. You know, we did talk to Alex. We talked to him from the front door. You know, he's very groggy. Your suspicions are valid, but there's no imminent danger. Basically you need to go to family court. And I remember being like, if my suspicions are valid, there's imminent danger. And I'm like, you please call Derek to see if I can pick him up. You're like, they have a no contact. How is he supposed to check on his child's well being? I'm like, what power does Josie have over me and I'm family. He's like, you know, Derek's not gonna allow that. Da, da, da. He said something about Derek, you know, it's Derek's decision. And I said, well, as you can see Derek's not very good at making any wise decisions. And I just kind of got aggressive, and I was like, there has to be something you guys can do to help me. And then he's like, well, you know, Monday morning, file family court papers. I'm like, yeah, if what you're telling me is true, I know for a fact we do not have until Monday.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

And then I asked if I could go pick him up or stop at the house and see him myself. He said, you can catch this charge discharge. That's just a disturbance. He's sleeping, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you don't call somebody and tell them this when we haven't seen him for two years. And the last time we have seen him, he looks sick. He was obviously being abused. It was so hard because it broke me the next day to find out. But my little sister, she ran into my apartment, and she's like, raven. And I just knew it was bad. And I'm like, what happened? And she's like, AJ is dead. And I remember the first thing I did was I called dispatch and I said, connect me to the guy that did the welfare check last night. And I freaked out. And I'm like, how does this happen? You guys literally were there last night. How does this happen? You told me, my suspicions are valid. There was no imminent danger, and now he's dead. And I was just pissed off, and I was overwhelmed. And I remember hanging up on them because he was like, I'm at the scene right now. I'm an investigator on this case. I'm like, that does not make me feel better. I was feral.

[D]

There's the checks and balances there, right? Like, so you were there last night, and now you're investigating the crime scene.

[B]

He was like, I'm so sorry. He did have some empathy and sympathy for me, but at the time, I completely ignored it. I'm like, you did not have sympathy or empathy for me last night when I told you my concerns, and you highly ignored me. And then it was like I went through a phase where it was like, okay, if I didn't make this welfare check, would he have been alive? Did he die because I made this welfare check? And then now it's like, I feel like she was gonna kill him.

[E]

Either way, you cannot blame yourself for that.

[B]

Yeah, it's just been, like, a roller coaster of feelings that come and go. I feel like there was so much more that I could have done, like, going to our house and risking this. These charges and possible incarceration over the weekend. They put me in a very, very hard position. Like, at that point, I called my mom, which is AJ's aunt, Jackie Scholl, and I'm like, mom, I just did this welfare check. And I told her what the cops said to me, and she's like, if your suspicions are valid, that's a men in danger. Like, why don't you call them again and do another one?

[D]

Because they're not going to take us seriously. They already aren't.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then my mom's like, I'm like, mom, I want to go there, but will you please go there for me? Like, if I go there, I just know that I'm not gonna have any chill whatsoever. I said, I don't know what he means by this, but I can tell it's, like, really bad. I can tell it's like, to the point where AJ should probably not be there because this is the first time I've ever gotten a call back doing a welfare check anything. I've never had an officer update me on anything ever.

[E]

So they knew something was wrong, but they just didn't act. And then I'm sure he's regretting it the next day, but mainly because, well, now he has to cover his own behind, you know?

[D]

Right.

[E]

A whole nother reason he shouldn't be investigating that case.

[D]

Yep.

[B]

And I just remember, like, I had nightmares that night. I literally felt super sick to my stomach. And then after I found out, it was like a huge flush of guilt. So many emotions at once. And I was just like, how does this happen to a kid in our family? Like, it shouldn't happen to any child. But the children in our family, they're like, spoiled. I'm not going to lie. Like, they are very well taken care of. So to see this, it's so heartbreaking and having to tell, like, the little kids and just nothing is the same anymore.

[D]

No.

[B]

For my family, it's been like, probably one of the loneliest, scariest battles we've had to face because, you know, for three months there wasn't any update for the news. They would not do it. They're like, once this investigation is over, you guys can go to the news as much as you'd like. We were quiet because we didn't want to tamper the investigation or do anything. It was just one of the hardest things to do when you know Damn well a 6 year old just doesn't die. And then we find out the next day. The one thing that the officer didn't tell me was that he had a broken femur. It wasn't until the next day on that phone call when I was bitching at him that he told me his leg was broken. So I was like, are both his legs broken as well? Like, broken? How did he die? And he. He didn't tell me then, but I found out later that day that Josie stated that he overdosed. And we were like, overdose? He has a broken femur. He's not gonna get up, eat pills. Kids don't do that. And if he died from pills in her house, why wasn't she arrested on the scene for child endangerment? He's clearly a suspect here.

[A]

Hello.

[B]

Like, I can't even begin to explain how hard that was to watch all this happen. It was like we were not being heard. Nobody cared. It was like this investigation felt very corrupt.

[E]

I'm so relieved that there was an arrest. Hopefully the investigation will continue and you guys will actually see justice for Alexavier, because this is just a nightmare and you're living in the middle of it right now.

[B]

I will say that things are not going to get any easier because it almost is harder knowing that she was arrested. I mean, it's justified a little bit, but I'm not 100 satisfied because there are so many other people that knew. It's sickening how many people knew and saw these signs. I could never. I don't understand humanity as much in this area and the ignorance that plays a role here because I have never seen so much of it in my life. There's so many people with children and stuff here. You should know. You should want to protect these kids. What if this was, you know, empathy? Put yourself in somebody else's shoes, and that just lacked so much here. And I was sitting in the courtroom yesterday was probably, you know, a challenge. I didn't know I was going to face how hard it would be. It's like, because you want to get up and fight from your seat because you know these things and you know them things, but so does the prosecutor in the case.

[D]

Right.

[B]

You have to put so much faith into another person. It's scary because we've done that. And this. It resulted in Alex Xavier not being with us anymore. And it's. I don't want to settle or be quiet about his justice, but in the courtroom, it's like, you have to. Nothing I say matters. It's almost like a violation if you speak on anything. Yeah, it's going to be very hard.

[D]

I mean, I would feel better once people are held accountable and not just Josie, because she's not the only one that played a hand in this, you know, so the doctors tried and it was CPS that failed. And my aunt, she's like, she'll get away with it. She's going to get away with it. It happens all the time. And like, that just pushes me even more to want to make a change because this should have never happened. And if we can do something so that it never happens or if we just save one child, it would be worth it.

[E]

Jenna, was she in prison for the baseball bat attack on Josie?

[D]

Yes. So the altercation, how that worked was Jenna, Derek and Josie thought that they could co parent together because Jenna wanted to move and get away from the family because she was making some rather poor choices and didn't want to hear it from her family, as you don't want to hear when you're doing something wrong.

[E]

Right.

[D]

So she wanted to move away and kind of be able to do her own thing. And she wanted to take her kids with. Well, Derek wouldn't allow her to do that. So in her mind, well, maybe you guys can just come down with and we'll just live together and we'll co parent all these kids together and we'll be one big happy family. And, you know, there was argument between Jenna and Josie because one was going out partying and the other wanted to get away from the kids because they had them for five days. Plus, emotions were high. And Josie said she was going to take Jenna's kids. And that does not sit well with a mama bear. No, for sure. So the bat was actually brought in by Josie. Josie got the bat in hopes to hit Jenna with it. Maybe it was Derek.

[B]

I think it was Derek, because Derek and Jonah's boyfriend at the time were actually arguing and there was some racist things said. And Derek actually went out to the garage and grabbed the bat. Because at first it was, from what I was told, I was not there, but Derek and Josie were arguing, and then Derek and Jones boyfriend were arguing, and then Jenna was trying to mediate the situation. And then Josie and Jenna started arguing and Derek brought in a bat. My aunt had her arm broken by Josie. And then after that, my aunt grabbed the bat and hit her in the head. And I, I will say, like, I don't agree with the events that happened that night and how they happened. Jenna owned up to that. She's like, yeah, I did do that. And here's the craziest part. My aunt called 911. There was a person there that said they did not want 911 because they're on probation because they didn't want to go to jail for drinking. This person wanted to leave her bleeding out to die on the kitchen floor. Jonah was like, no way in hell is this happening?

[D]

And took her to the hospital.

[B]

Yeah, call 911. And took her to the hospital. Well, she got charged that same day, she got charged with second degree assault and armed criminal action for hitting Josie in the head with that.

[D]

So Jenna went to jail for that. But the next day, Josie bailed her out of jail.

[E]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And then Jenna called me, told me what happened or whatever from Missouri, and she's like, can you please help me move back? And one thing led to another. I'm obviously there for her. So even if I disagree with a lot of what she was doing, I did end up helping her. And neither of us had enough room for all of their things. Like, I literally did not have, like, an inch to move on my way back and come to find out, like, Jenna met up with Derek, and she gave some of their stuff back. They left all their things behind. Josie and Derek did not care to come back and get all their things to their children, their clothes, everything was left behind. And I'm like, how does this fall on Jenna? These are also your guys's children. So anyways, moving on from that and Josie bailing her out, Jenna came back to Wisconsin after she was bailed out, and she got arrested in Buffalo and did some time there. And then she was actually extradited to Missouri to sit in Jasper county jail. And then November 16th of 2020, Jonah was convicted in Missouri for assault to second degree on Joe's injury. And that was. She took a plea deal because she knows that she did it. She knows what she did was wrong, and she knew she was gonna have to take accountability for it. So the plea deal was, you take the second degree and we'll dismiss the criminal action. Well, when Jonah went to prison was when Josie felt power because she now she's Jenna's victim. This is a whole other story, because they did a terrible job investigating this case because Josie's here in Wisconsin. She's lying to all these people in Missouri. The judge, the prosecutor, the victim services, basically saying that she got a TBI from John hitting her in the head of the bat, which is not true because her and Derek had a domestic, and Derek is the one who actually gave her a tbi. That's what it says for Social Security that she gets. This was all even sent to Missouri when we found out, we were doing everything and anything to prove that the damage that was done to Josie did not happen that night. I believe, yes, she might have gotten a concussion, but she did not give Josie a tbi. They use that against Jenna, you know, with cps, with welfare checks, with school, with everything. Like, Jenna totally traumatized the children. Her kids are traumatized. She tried to kill me. She's a horrible person. You know, she made Jonah sit. I don't know how many more years. Like, she. In 20, 21. At some point, Jonah had an opportunity to get released. If her victim said she could. The victim said, no. You know, I'm fearing for my life. She's going to kill me.

[E]

The victim who bailed her out the first time, right?

[D]

Yes.

[A]

No.

[B]

So it's all a manipulation scheme. And there was another one last year in November, where she could have came home, and her victim said no. So Jonah got released in March of this year, you know, and 42 days before Jenna was released, she's finding out her son was murdered. Like, dead, Suspiciously died.

[E]

That's awful. That is terrible.

[B]

The first I was sitting. My mom was on the phone with her, and I was sitting right next to my mom, and Jonah called, and, you know, all my family. There's a lot of family there. Not all of them were there, but my mom's like, I have something to tell you. And Jonah was super excited. She's like, what, are you guys getting together to go get Alex Xavier to pick him up? And my mom's like, no, unfortunately, we aren't able to pick him up. And then Jonah kind of caught on. And I don't remember what my mom really said after that, but it was somewhere along the lines, like, we won't ever be able to pick him up again.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Jonah was like, that be killed my son. She, like, was taken off the phone by a security guard. She didn't call back for quite some time. I was very scared for her to find out, actually. So she. You know, the welfare check I did the night before and all these things, I was just, like. I was scared for her, of course. Like, I had no idea how she was gonna feel.

[A]

I.

[B]

She has two other children, and, you know, she's coming home from a maximum institution.

[D]

Like, she's been living with murderers for three years.

[E]

Right.

[B]

She's even had enemies in there come up to her and give her handshakes after this, you know, wanting to shake her hand. And Jenna was like, if my enemies are trying to give me a handshake, Josie really Effed up like she really PO'd. A lot of people, like murders in there really don't play about children.

[A]

Now time for one last sponsor break.

[B]

But Jenna finally, you know, came home from all this and, you know, she's been staying close with the family and is with her children a lot.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

She has been very strong throughout all this. It's very hard for her to wrap her head around it. There's a lot of things she won't read. There's a lot of times she won't be on social media. There's a lot of times she almost acts as if nothing ever happened again. We're all in different stages of grieving, and I feel like the grieving isn't going to be over. It might start all over after all of this stuff is done. Because it's just going to replay from the day that he died. It's just going to continue replaying. Like, I feel he's at some piece, but I'm not going to settle for just some.

[E]

Right, right.

[B]

What he went through, no child should ever have to go through. And I'm not going to settle until I feel in my heart and soul that everything that was done to him has been justified and held accountable. And I'm not going to stop for other children. There's a lot of victims that they have that have experienced near death as well. Experiences. At least one has. And you don't get drug treatment for that. That's not a consequence.

[E]

No, that was ridiculous.

[B]

The way that she wrote her victim statement to the judge was like, as if she was in a wheelchair, literally drooling on herself.

[D]

She can't drive. She has a hard time taking care of her kids. She needs help with that. And when it came to, like, the court down in Missouri, they didn't even ask anybody that was there that night what happened.

[E]

Really.

[D]

Like, they just took what Josie had to say, like, they didn't interview them. Raven's sister was there. Derek was there. There was another man there which was Jenna's boyfriend at the time. They didn't talk to anybody. They didn't investigate it whatsoever.

[B]

And then, you know, they came back to Wisconsin and, you know, CPS reports that were being made from people we don't even know about, some sexual interactions between the siblings.

[E]

Oh, and you don't know who reported that, right?

[B]

Yeah. And it's crazy to me that law enforcement was never contacted on those allegations. The way that it's formed right now is it's based on sexual violence towards children, sexual abuse towards Children. That's the way CPS is actually designed right now. They designed it surrounding those factors. And whenever an allegation like that is made, law enforcement is mandated to be contacted to investigate. He made allegations like, you know, Josie smacks me in my face and makes me drink my spit when I'm thirsty. And my family took that seriously. For real. Like, this isn't a joke, because.

[D]

And that's when they stopped letting us see him.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, he would never, ever. My mom would buy him toys and new clothes, and so would my grandma, and, like, a bunch of people in the family would just buy him stuff. And he never wanted to take not even his favorite race car toy over to Josie's house because he was afraid.

[D]

That his younger sibling would end up with it because nothing was his. And he didn't want to take his new clothes there either, because they weren't his clothes. Then they would go to one of the other kids. So he wanted to keep his prized possessions with us.

[B]

We actually have, like, Christmas gifts and Easter stuff, holiday stuff and birthday stuff for AJ Just stacked up. We were. Yeah.

[D]

Waiting. So when we were able to see him, we could give it to him because he was kept away from us to the point where we didn't even get to talk to him on the phone or anything. We didn't even get to hear his voice. We never got to see him. And for us to call and report these things and to just be unheard, and then there's tragedy that happens.

[E]

Like, it's almost like you couldn't write it this way because people would never believe it. And it happens all the time.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Yes.

[B]

Like, it gets to the point where Josie was victim to my family. Like, we were harassing her. We were, you know, overstepping the boundaries. We were stalking her. She felt afraid of my family. Like, she was thinking about getting a restraining order on my entire family. I saw her at Walmart. You know, Jenna, this is right around the time where Josie stopped letting AJ come around. So this is somewhere between 2019 and 2020. I seen her at Walmart in, I believe it was the summer. She saw me, and she knew who I was, and she started having, like, a huge spaz attack. Like, oh, my God, this woman's trying to kill me. Oh, my God. Let's go, let's go, let's go. I literally just walked away. I'm like, are you kidding me? In front of your children? How embarrassing. How actually traumatizing is this for them? Like, you're Literally manipulating them, that this is okay. Once I walked away I didn't hear a scene. I didn't see EMS show up. And trust me, she was acting as if she needed some medical services because like no cops were called nothing. Trust me, you're not afraid of me. She manipulating the situation to the extreme. In all the CPS reports, you know, the kids are traumatized from Jenna and my TBI makes it so hard for me and she got away with so much because of her tbi. And in some of the CBS reports it says like do the kids go to therapy? Well they used to and I took them out of it and I don't want them talking to the school counselors because it just feels inappropriate to me. Like I just feel like they don't need to have that at the moment. And I'm like, so you put them in it and then you took them out?

[E]

Well, because she was afraid what they would disclose, right?

[B]

You don't want your kids talking to forensic investigators and stuff because they're traumatized and that you're looking for therapy but you're going to take them out of therapy. Like you're not for your children. You're not for anybody's children. You're for yourself and you're for hiding the truth. You know, and it really bothers me how they did a 24 hour CPS watch when he broke his femur inside the hospital. At the hospital the abuser that was being suspected wasn't even there. What a perfect area to do this when one she's lying in your guys faces. His story isn't adding up with the injuries apparently to the doctors that some it did. I mean a couple of them, we had a meeting with the supervisors and the director of CPS and they smiled in our faces. They wanted to take no accountability whatsoever. You know, they were just following policies and procedures. Well if that's the case, you violated many of them.

[A]

Something needs to change.

[E]

If those policies and procedures allowed this to happen.

[B]

That's what we said.

[E]

Something's going wrong.

[B]

I said if I saw a child who is clearly being abused, wouldn't you think to step out of those policies and procedures? And you really think you're going to lose your job for protecting a child as long as you report it? The piece of their job is reporting and documenting and basically tracking their, the children they have. And I'm so sick of hearing oh they're short staffed or they didn't have enough resources. Well then you need to form something, an organization or fund something for These.

[D]

Children with talking to people about what happened at Alexavier. We got a lot of, oh, that's not our department. You have to talk to this team. And my question is, you are all government employees. Like, the well being of the community should be your number one goal. Right? Like, you should all work together and communicate together so then you're able to run things smoothly, not just, oh, well, you had to fill that paper workout three days ago.

[E]

Right, Exactly. And as human beings, you'd think that they could take a little more initiative to help you get where you need to go or communicate that to those departments. You know, it's right. It's not just a matter of, this is a job, this is someone's life that's in the balance.

[D]

And yeah, I, I, I stated that when we had our meeting with the CPS workers. Like, it's frustrating to me that procedures and policies take priority precedence over the life of a child or a human being. Like, that does not make any sense to me. I don't understand how that's protecting or serving. When you work for a government agency, you need to have some accountability. And I don't think it's right that there's immunity.

[B]

Immunity shouldn't be as strong as it is.

[D]

No, no. Like, how, how do they get held accountable for, for the things that they mess up? And I mean, because, oh well, I messed up. There's a dead kid.

[E]

So.

[D]

Well, moving on.

[B]

My biggest thing right now that I feel like literally stunts my ability to function. I mean, not as like a concern for my parenting or anything, but literally just feels like taking years off of my life. Just thinking about it is the fact that the same people that fail him are still working with other children, are still working the case with her children. And it's disgusting because, I mean, I've had these conversations with people that have power and I'm like, I'm so frustrated and I try to stay as calm as I can and it's like you explain yourself one too many times and it just pours out because I feel like I've been calm and collective before and it didn't work. And if you act irrationally now, you're the crazy one, you're the unsafe one, you're the one causing issues and it's like there's no balance in between. It's like you can get passive aggressive and they'll take it as a joke. Like, I can't recall the anger that I felt when I was laughed out on the phone by a CPS worker. Like when I was make a report that is infuriating.

[E]

Unbelievable, Believable.

[B]

It's unheard of. And I'm probably not actually.

[E]

Yeah, sadly. But still, it's. It's just you. You can't wrap your brain around that.

[B]

It's.

[E]

I'm telling you something that is a life or death and you're laughing. It's unreal. Who are these people? How did they get these jobs?

[B]

I wish I knew because I've asked the same question millions of times. I don't understand how volunteers working with these organizations in my area is doing more for people than people. People with actual child development education and have taken psychology and these different forms of knowledge and just not using it.

[E]

It's a job for them. They're in it for the paycheck, whereas the volunteers are there to help. You know, it's. It's upsetting. It shouldn't be that way.

[B]

And what's upsetting is like their reasoning to why the policies and procedures are the way they are is initially because they don't want to piss people off. That's initially what they said. You know, every time we get a call, if they were all screamed in, we would be stopping at people's houses that are actually innocent while you guys are screening out people that aren't.

[E]

Right. Which is more important.

[B]

You know, Jenna sent in this letter following the CPS report that I made that was screened out, but her letter was screened in. Jenna asked for all CPS reports containing Alex Xavier, and she only got one from 2019. And this is while she was incarcerated. She also asked in this letter for to be interviewed in school that never happened. School. She goes to a different school.

[D]

Reported. And CPS doesn't have record of any report being made.

[B]

They've literally lied to our faces about, you know, we don't have any reports from last year. And me and Annie looked at each other and we're like BS because we've called in. We both have called in in November, but we got those reports. And I also said that I called and made a report about his red eye. They told us, like, go through your call logs and get the dates of when you guys called us and made these reports. You know, you and all your family. Why do we have to go this extra mile?

[D]

Your job for you.

[B]

You guys have these reports and it's kind of scary because it's like, if they don't give us all the reports, then how do we know that the people investigating this case have all the reports? I'm just baffled by all of it when they sent us the binder of.

[D]

His pictures to school on different pictures. And he just looks so sad.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

You know, people had to be thinking something was going on. And whether they said anything or not is one thing.

[B]

You should be calling and reporting this.

[E]

That's what a lot of people don't understand is how important it is to say something.

[B]

I don't care who you are. Like, if I truly 100 in my gut belief that there is a child in danger, we could be best friends. But if I see you hurting your child and allowing this toxic relationship to take over your entire life, you know, and I see you being controlling with somebody else's kid because, like, as a single mom, you don't just get to come in full force and say, I own this child. This is my child. Like, I would feel so uncomfortable doing that.

[D]

Well, and, you know, knowing how manipulative Josie is, like, it just makes you wonder if she was like, your family doesn't love you. Your family doesn't want to have anything to do with you. Like, I could only imagine the things that she would say just to be mean. Well, you don't see your family coming around here, do you? They don't want you. Nobody wants you. Nobody likes you. Nobody loves you. Like, that breaks my heart because we did want him. And we tried. We tried really hard.

[E]

Yeah, that's the hardest thing, I think, because you don't know what he was told. You know, you can only imagine and the worst case scenario is going to.

[A]

Go through your head.

[E]

But I would just love to think, now he knows.

[D]

Right. We will end up having a celebration of life or like a memorial for him. But at this point, we aren't even able to fully grieve his loss because there's so much going on. I don't think we're going to be able to grieve until there's justice and. And good God almighty, I hope there's justice soon. Because this is so hard, so hard. I do not wish this for any family ever. No.

[E]

You've been living in limbo for three months.

[D]

Yes. And that's the hardest part is the not knowing and having to trust a system that totally failed and is broken. Right. So it's like, hey, we messed up, but we need you to trust me. Us.

[E]

Right. Okay. No problem.

[D]

Like, that's extremely hard to do.

[A]

Thank you so much to Raven and Annie for talking with me about Alexavier, what he went through and who he was as a person. I can promise them one thing for certain. Alexavier will never be forgotten. My sources for this episode were court documents, The LaCrosse Tribune News 8000 News 19 WXOW and family members of Alexavier. That's it for this week. Join me next week for another episode. If you like the show, please follow or subscribe to Suffer the Little Children on Apple podcasts, Google Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Spreaker, Pandora, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast listening app. And please leave me a five star rating and a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. Visit the website at sufferthelittlechildrenpod.com you can support the show by visiting patreon.com stlcpod where you can become a patron for rewards ranging from a shout out by name on the show to bonus content and exclusive gifts. You can also support the [e-mail] Follow the podcast on Facebook and Instagram at Suffer the Little Children pod and on TikTok tlcpod. View photos Related to today's episode on Facebook. For more stories like the one you heard today, visit Suffer the little children blog.com this podcast is researched, written, hosted, edited and produced by Lane Intro theme music is by Dream Nope Music and all music for the show is licensed from audiojungle. Net. For more information about preventing or reporting Child Abuse, visit childhelp.org or call your area's Child abuse hotline. And remember, if you see something, say something.