Hour 1: Hammer Time?

Summary

Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron: Hour 1 – Hammer Time?

Release Date: March 30, 2025
Hosts: Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf
Platform: ESPN Radio

---

1. Tournament Updates and Final Four Teams

The episode kicks off with Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf delving into the latest developments in the NCAA basketball tournament. With both Florida Gators and Duke advancing to the Final Four, the hosts express their excitement and analysis of these teams' performances.

Jay Williams (Myron): “The Florida Gators come back to beat Texas Tech after being down nine in the last four minutes of the game. And then Duke just rolls on an Alabama team that I thought was very dangerous.”
[01:21]

They highlight Florida's impressive comeback and Duke's dominant victory over Alabama, setting the stage for an intense Final Four.

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2. Number One Seeds in the Final Four: A Boon or a Bane?

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the impending possibility of having four number one seeds in the Final Four. Matt and Myron explore whether this concentration of top-seeded teams is beneficial or detrimental to the tournament's excitement and competitiveness.

Matt Jones: “The ratings have been great. So I don't know, you know, if America's really rejecting the idea.”
[02:30]

Myron Medcalf: “I actually think the last few weeks have been the best few weeks college basketball's had maybe since COVID in sort of capturing the national attention last year.”
[02:52]

They argue that having top-seeded teams enhances the quality of play and viewer engagement, countering the common perception that it stifles unpredictability.

---

3. The Role of Coaches in Modern College Basketball

The hosts delve into the evolving landscape of college basketball coaching, emphasizing the blend of veteran expertise and emerging coaching talent. They discuss prominent figures like Tom Izzo, Rick Barnes, Bruce Pearl, John Shire, and Mark Pope, highlighting their contributions and adaptability in the current era.

Jay Williams: “The coaches issue is big. You... have a new generation that's out there of interesting coaches along with some guys from the old.”
[04:31]

Matt Jones: “The other element of this that people I think aren't talking about is the elite coaches that are still alive.”
[03:54]

They also touch upon the behavior of modern coaches, particularly Danny Hurley, debating whether passionate displays border on problematic.

Matt Jones: “I think some of the things have gone too far with some of these moments with officials and... sometimes he crosses the line.”
[05:51]

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4. Player Spotlight: Cooper Flagg and the All-Time Duke Starting Five

A key highlight of the episode is the discussion about Cooper Flagg, a standout player for Duke, and his potential legacy in the program. Matt and Myron debate Flagg’s place among Duke’s all-time greats.

Matt Jones: “My all-time starting five at Duke... would include Cooper.”
[26:13]

Myron Medcalf: “I think Cooper's generational. I just think that's a different level.”
[28:34]

They compare Flagg to legends like J.J. Redick, Grant Hill, Christian Laettner, and Zion Williamson, considering his impact and future potential.

---

5. The Portal Era: Navigating Transfers and Team Dynamics

The conversation shifts to the "portal era," where player transfers have become a significant factor in team compositions. With over 1,200 players already in the portal, Matt and Myron discuss its implications on team stability and coaching strategies.

Jay Williams: “Tom Izzo... is focusing on this team. Do you agree with Tom Izzo of. I ain't worried about next year. I'm trying to win a title this year.”
[40:25]

Myron Medcalf: “This is what works for Tom and others like him... the guys in the Mark Pope kind of lane, where that generation is going to have to rebuild every year.”
[41:18]

They critique the timing of the portal opening and its impact on tournament play, advocating for a delay to preserve the integrity of the current competition.

---

6. Personal Anecdotes: Experiencing Atlanta’s Vibe

Matt shares his personal experiences in Atlanta, painting a vivid picture of the city's vibrant culture and lively atmosphere, adding a personal touch to the episode.

Matt Jones: “There's like a carousel in the middle of the city... people running around with horse carriages playing old school soul music.”
[10:07 – 10:35]

His anecdotes provide listeners with a glimpse into his life outside the sports analysis, fostering a connection with the audience.

---

7. Fun Banter: Celebrating MC Hammer’s Birthday

In a lighter segment, the hosts celebrate MC Hammer's birthday, sharing humorous and intriguing stories about the iconic artist. This segment showcases their chemistry and ability to blend pop culture with sports discussions.

Jay Williams: “So MC Hammer is 63 years old today. Happy birthday, MC Hammer.”
[37:10]

Matt Jones: “Don't mess with MC Hammer.”
[39:49]

Their playful exchange about MC Hammer’s legacy adds a fun dynamic to the podcast, balancing the intense sports talk.

---

8. Final Thoughts: The Future of College Basketball

Wrapping up, Matt and Myron reflect on the current state and future of college basketball. They emphasize the high quality of play, the importance of top-tier teams advancing, and the need to balance tradition with modern changes like the transfer portal.

Myron Medcalf: “This feels like I'm finding out who the best team is.”
[31:39]

Matt Jones: “We are watching the best basketball right now in the final stage of college basketball.”
[15:26]

Their optimistic outlook underscores a belief in the sport's evolving landscape, driven by talented players and strategic coaching.

---

Conclusion

"Hour 1: Hammer Time?" offers a comprehensive and engaging analysis of the NCAA basketball tournament, the impact of coaching and player dynamics, and the broader changes shaping college basketball. Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf blend insightful commentary with personal stories and lively banter, making the episode both informative and entertaining for listeners.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jay Williams (Myron): “The tournament has now given us...if Auburn wins today and then if Houston wins, if we get four teams number one season, the final Four, is that a good thing or a bad thing?”
  [01:21]

• Matt Jones: “I think Auburn is looking now like the team that lost one game in 90 days. That's a real number.”
  [18:28]

• Myron Medcalf: “We get the best product at the time where the game is the most visible.”
  [31:39]

• Jay Williams: “Don't mess with MC Hammer.”
  [39:49]

---

This detailed summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, insights, and the dynamic interplay between the hosts. Whether you're a die-hard fan or a casual listener, this episode offers valuable perspectives on the current landscape of college basketball.

Transcript

[Matt]

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[Myron]

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[Jay Williams]

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[Matt]

This is Matt and Myron the podcast.

[Jay Williams]

It is Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio ESPN app presented by Progressive Insurance. Matt and Myron, we're going to change the name of this show here soon. Be watching for that on your local dial. I got my philosopher king Myron Metcalf joining me. We are presented by Progressive Insurance. No Frills is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You can save big when you bundle your home in auto with Progressive. That's it. A good old fashioned straightforward progressive ad. See if you can learn [e-mail] what.

[Matt]

Are we thinking about?

[Jay Williams]

I'm trying to think, but nothing happens.

[Matt]

Nothing happens. It's time to find out.

[Jay Williams]

This is off the Top Flash off.

[Matt]

The Top with Matt and Myron.

[Jay Williams]

Wow, I didn't know what that was going to be. They're surprising us.

[Matt]

A new segment. I like that.

[Jay Williams]

Start with off the and I think we have to go off the top with yesterday. We have our first two teams in the Final four. The Florida Gators come back to beat Texas Tech after being down nine in the last four minutes of the game. And then Duke just rolls on an Alabama team that I thought was very dangerous. They weren't yesterday as Cooper Flag Con Caniple and the other Dukies end up winning by 20. Myron, we're going to talk a lot about these two games but but the tournament has now given us. I said when the tournament started on the prediction show that I thought there'd be four number one seeds in the final four. We are very close to that. If Auburn wins today and then if Houston wins, if we get four teams number one season, the final Four, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because a lot of America seems to act like it's a bad thing, whereas I think it's great.

[Matt]

I mean the ratings have been great. So I don't know, you know, if America's really rejecting the idea. I mean, you want I guess maybe an outsider to, to come in. But if you've watched college basketball season, to me these four number one seeds I think have separated themselves from everybody else. So it's not surprising to many of us who Followed the sport.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, I actually think this tournament has been symbolic of the state of the sport. But Myron, I think people have looked at it the wrong way. People have sort of acted like the changes in the portal and nil have made it to where oh well, mid major can't make a run. I think they're sort of misremembering how many mid majors ever made big runs to begin with. But the other thing is the quality of the basketball is just a lot better because there are older guys playing it. The combination of Cooper flag yesterday, this great freshman against this veteran Alabama team, I at least enjoyed the idea of it. Even though Alabama didn't play particularly well. And now you get to see these dudes like playing in big time battles. I think it's great and the ratings have shown it. I actually think the last few weeks have been the best few weeks college basketball's had maybe since COVID in sort of capturing the national attention last year. Women's college basketball had it during this time. And I actually think for men's college basketball, this has been a great few week run here. Do you agree?

[Matt]

Yeah, no, no, I. I think it gives you everything you want, like every storyline you would ever want. I mean, you have guys like Cooper Flag, right. Who kind of captivated the country being the number one pick. You have really high quality teams. And I think the other thing.

[Jay Williams]

You had Cal versus Patino.

[Matt]

But I think that matters too, Matt, because the other element of this that people I think aren't talking about is the elite coaches that are still alive. Like there's a reason that Tom Izzo is still here and Rick Barnes and Bruce Pearl and John Shire. I mean isn't, you know, maybe noted as that yet? Because he's so young, but clearly he's a high quality guy as well. So I just think you have everything you would want as a fan. Whether you're a devoted fan, a casual fan in this tournament, you got.

[Jay Williams]

I think the coaches issue is big. You know that we went through a period where we lost a lot of famous coaches, right? I mean they didn't, they didn't die, they just, they just quit, you know, I mean, I don't want, I don't want to turn this into a sad.

[Matt]

Show, but it's still alive. Everybody okay?

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, everybody for the most part is still going. Just like, who was it? Who was it? Barkley said, rest in peace.

[Matt]

Oh no, I think somebody let. No, no one.

[Jay Williams]

Richardson.

[Matt]

My God. Nolan Richardson.

[Jay Williams]

My guy, Nolan Richardson. He's still going. Don't know, throw, don't put him away. But the, you look at the, we lost, you know, Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, all these guys go. But what you found is there's a new generation that's out there of interesting coaches along with some guys from the old. So you still have Patino, you still have Cal, you still have Izzo. But then there's this Danny Hurley thing, right? Nate Oates, I think Bruce Pearl's kind of in between those generations. John Shire, Mark Pope, you got these other dudes that are compelling. And I think college basketball, the coach is more often the story than the players and it's good. And I think people wondered, is there going to be a new generation of people that people care about? I think the answer is yes.

[Matt]

Yeah. No. I think, you know, Dan Hurley and like this new generation of coaches, they're from the social media era, right? So I think they just have a different sense of not only just personality and projecting their personalities, but just the value of building a team. I think like this new generation of players want that. So Dan Hurley you mentioned obviously exudes that kind of new age coach, but the old school.

[Jay Williams]

Are you Dan? Are you Dan? Are you pro or con? Dan Hurley, we didn't get to talk about his meltdown last week.

[Matt]

I don't think, I don't think it coaches in that way. What I can say is I think that's con. He is very self aware. I do think some of the things have gone too far with, with some of these moments with officials and you know, I think sometimes he crosses the line. But I don't know. I mean he is who he is, man, you know, and he's won a.

[Jay Williams]

Lot of answer for everything for people. It's not for people who didn't hear. We were talking during the break about a guy, I won't say who, but about somebody that we both occasionally worked with and we had different opinions on him and Myron's reaction was he is who he is. Is this just what you say about. Because that could, honestly that could be true about everyone.

[Matt]

It's not that. I just appreciate people who are self aware and I think Dan Hurley certainly is that. I've been around Dan Hurley for tv covering games where I was in the locker room pregame with him and like seeing him up close like that is genuinely who he is. So I can't knock that. Here's the other thing.

[Jay Williams]

That old school generation, if he is that and he's. And it's him being a jerk. Why can't you knock him for it?

[Matt]

Well, to. Again, I said he. I think he's going too far in some of these officiating moments, what happened in Maui, things like that. But we also got to stop protecting this past generation of coaches where they weren't scrutinized the same way. Go ask some officials who I have asked about Coach K. Well, he was a jerk, too.

[Jay Williams]

I mean, people.

[Matt]

But I mean, your words, not mine. But I mean, I'll use the words college coaches.

[Jay Williams]

It's the only profession where you're allowed to scream like a maniac at human beings and then have people go, well, man, that's just a tough way to do it. Go work at Toyota and see if you can scream at your employees the way those people do. Like you can't. And yet we just accept it. Like the Danny Hurley thing, I'm fine with him being a villain. I'm glad we have that in college basketball. But I also think it's fine to say dude's a jerk. Now, I'm not saying college basketball doesn't need a jerk. Maybe it does, but it also doesn't make him not a jerk.

[Matt]

Okay. At his peak, Cal, I remember vividly getting into screaming matches. Literally everybody, including his own players at times, the DeMarcus cousins, Cal exchanges were intense. And a lot of people saw that and said, wow, that's a passionate coach. Here's my problem with the whole.

[Jay Williams]

Why do you think we allow college coaches to do that? Like, we don't allow anyone else to do that. There's even in the NBA, they do not act like that. Why do we allow college basketball coaches to act a force?

[Matt]

We allow winning college basketball coaches to do a lot right at the same time. Like, they get away with. If you want to get away with something in sports, be a really good college coach, because they get to do whatever they want. But here's the other thing. The flip side of this, Matt, who wants a coach that doesn't look passionate? You want to be in a tough spot as a coach, Be in a middle of the pack season where you're not really contending. You're on the bubble, and then the camera comes to you on the sideline, and you just look like you're not there.

[Jay Williams]

That's how it looks. I mean, John Shire looks like a guy who's just like, kind of being patient and calm, and it's. He's in the Final Four.

[Matt]

Winning guys can do whatever they want. Your guy Mark Pope isn't like this you know, emotional guy on the sidelines. Like that matters. Winning is what matters. Do what you want if you win.

[Jay Williams]

All right, so Duke and Florida both advance, or is that who we're going to watch in the finals? Do you think those. I mean, Florida got a test, but came back. Some people thought these two teams were the two most consistent best teams. They will not play each other in the next round. Do you think you sit. They see each other in the finals?

[Matt]

I mean, that was my initial championship game. Duke in Florida. I think the difference is I pick Florida coming into the NCAA tournament, I picked Duke. Now, like, I think Duke is just at a different level, and I don't know that anybody can catch them. And I'm here in Atlanta covering Auburn, Michigan State. You know, I followed Auburn on this journey. Tennessee, Houston. Obviously that's going to be a good game, but it looks to me like Duke has the best player on the best team in the field.

[Jay Williams]

You're in Atlanta for the game today. Is that. How's. How's Atlanta today? Is it. Is this Myron. You know, Myron, you usually said land is your city. How's it going down there?

[Matt]

I like Atlanta, man. There's just like a carousel in the middle of the. In the middle of the city. You know what I mean? Like, there's just so much happening all the time.

[Jay Williams]

Ride the carousel while you're there.

[Matt]

No, I did, but did. And then there's like, people. There's like people running around with, like, horse carriages playing, like old school soul music. Like, the vibe of the city is.

[Jay Williams]

Certainly where in Atlanta are there people with horse carriages playing old school soul.

[Matt]

Music all over the place. They're just like, riding, picking up people in these horse carriages playing like Al Green, man. It's my kind of thing, man. I dig it.

[Jay Williams]

It's your kind of city. Right? Okay.

[Matt]

I love it.

[Jay Williams]

Well, he's going to be going to Auburn, Michigan State. Is that the first or second game today? That's second game. It's the second game. So that's it, like 5:00. We'll be previewing it. We're also going to have Jay Williams on here in a little bit, and we're going to talk about today's game. Bruce Pearl says Michigan State is not the underdog. We'll figure out if that's correct and more of Myron's philosophy next here on Sunday morning on ESPN Radio.

[Matt]

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[Jay Williams]

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[Matt]

Race the sails.

[Jay Williams]

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[Myron]

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[Myron]

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[Jay Williams]

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[Jay Williams]

Is over in Atlanta. The Spartans are elite yet again. Michigan State moving on to the lead. A Talovich lead pass underneath Cooper up to the rim, puts it down point blank. Four point Spartans lead. I love these guys because they keep grinding.

[Myron]

It's hard to believe that two days.

[Jay Williams]

We'Re playing for a chance to do.

[Myron]

One of the all time great things.

[Jay Williams]

In any basketball player's life and that's playing for a final four. It is Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio. Let's stay together, Myron. Let's keep. That's what Tom Izzo saying to his team. Let's together one more week. The Portal era. You don't get that much time with people but it's worked out well. Michigan State will play against Auburn. Another team full of transfers from the Portal. Winner goes to the final Four. You know a lot of chatter. One of them from your boy Stephen A. Smith who said college basketball is going to die without Cinderella's. I think these two teams right here are an example of why I think that's a ridiculous position. Michigan State and Auburn built with a lot of transfers, guys from other schools, especially Auburn who has guys from about every school including Alabama, one of their rivals at one point. And yet they're both fun to watch, they're both talented and I'm very much looking forward to this game with two coaches that themselves are legendary but for both of them getting to a final four it's kind of a big deal. You know Bruce Pearl's only been to one. Tom is those only been to one in like 15 years. This is a be a big career win for whichever one gets it today.

[Matt]

Yeah, no, it's a major matchup. And let me go back to the Cinderella thing. People's got to stop saying that they're not telling the truth. Like there's a reason you say George Mason because that's the only thing you can remember of a real Cinderella that made it to this point. At the end of the day, people want to see the best versus the best. And I think Auburn, Michigan State, Tennessee, Houston, Duke, Florida, that is that. So I think we have the best teams, which doesn't always happen.

[Jay Williams]

Well, let's also talk about Cinderella for a second because I do want to note this point and this is not a criticism of people who are paid to talk about things they don't know. Sometimes I have to talk about things I don't know. Sometimes it'll come up here and it'll say, talk about hockey. And I'm like, all right, you put the puck in the ice or not in the ice. That would be weird. You put the puck in the goal.

[Matt]

That just summed it up right there.

[Jay Williams]

That's exactly right. You put the puck in the ice. I'm. I get it that sometimes you have to talk about things you do not know. But with that said, does it annoy you when the general public spends their two or three weeks on college basketball and then makes grand pronouncements about a sport that they don't follow? Like, does that annoy you?

[Matt]

Yes, it annoys me when they want to make the rules or like they want dramatic changes to the tournament.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah.

[Matt]

To suit their fancies for three weeks. Like, nobody's gonna do this because you showed up and you decided that you want to somehow clear a path for some mid major to get to the final four. But we are watching the best basketball right now in the final stage of college basketball. And guess what? Everybody wants that in every other sport. I don't know why they feel like college basketball supposed to be different.

[Jay Williams]

I think this is the highest played level of basketball we've seen in a decade, honestly, because of again the portal. And then I out like that Alabama BYU game was just fire. Just got, just guys making plays. And I still, I wasn't that long ago, Myron, we were having tournament games that were like 54, 51, you know, and now you got guys who can make shots everywhere. You know, that Duke offense is, is electric. The Florida offense is electric. Like this is what you should want. And when people say, you know, when people talk about Cinderella, here's what people want with Cinderella. You should want one win by Cinderella, but you don't want them to go farther than that. You don't really want to see. Would you rather see today instead of Auburn, Michigan State, George Mason, Michigan State? No, you wouldn't. You want to see Auburn. That's what makes it more interesting.

[Matt]

And what bothers me is why just college basketball? Like, why don't you do that with other sports? I'm a, I'm a Bucks fan from the 90s. No one was ever like, I wish Milwaukee would show up in the NBA Finals.

[Jay Williams]

They do the footballs, they do the opposite sports. Like, they like when you get a.

[Matt]

Worse when those teams make Rays versus.

[Jay Williams]

Padres, people get angry and they're like, where are the Yankees and the Dodgers? So you know, you, it's, it's odd. They, they criticize college basketball for the one thing that they don't like about the other. Like, wait till, wait till the NBA Finals, Oklahoma City versus Cleveland. There's going to be a lot of people going, oh, this is terrible. We don't have any stars, we don't have any big thing. And then it comes to college basketball. They want Duke and Kentucky out. Like, what are you talking about?

[Matt]

Well, that's the thing. And at least in the NBA, like if those two teams make it is because they've earned it. But in our sport, they want, you know, Texas Baptist, Southern State University to somehow have a clear path to the Elite Eight. And it's like, why, you know, we are watching the best basketball. And I think Auburn and Michigan State exemplify that. You have two coaches who are. I think Tom Izzo is already a Hall of Fame coach. I think Bruce Pearl is on his way. You got two of the best teams in America. You have a national Player of the year candidate in Janai Broom. You have a guy in Izzo who has made his 11th elite eight appearance. 11th. And who by the way, is 100 against SEC teams in the NCAA tournament.

[Jay Williams]

That was trying to hold on to that streak the other day. I, I saw that stat yesterday. And so Izzo has never lost to the SEC in the NCAA tournament. That's an amazing number. Now, does that continue today? You're down there. Are they gonna, is, are they gonna have sparty power and get this victory?

[Matt]

I mean, it's gonna be tough just because I think Auburn is looking now like the team that lost one game in 90 days. That's a real number. By the way, there was a 90 day stretch, 90 day stretch from December 4th to March 4th when Auburn lost one game. I mean, that's how good they are. And I think that's the team we're seeing. Michigan State has had to be a little more gritty and that's why the whole underdog thing came up yesterday where Bruce Pearl is saying, wait a minute. We're the team that everyone should be rooting for. We're not Michigan State. We're not in that same class. And Tom Ezzle kind of pushed back on that idea.

[Jay Williams]

Can I also tell you. So the other game today is in Indianapolis, and it is Houston and Tennessee. Now, Mikey and James studio. I was in Indianapolis for the Kentucky game on Friday night. And I'm going to continue my theory that Indianapolis is, Myron, the most generic city in the United States.

[Matt]

I don't agree with that.

[Jay Williams]

It is. I mean, every. Around every corner is another chain. It's like, oh, don't want to eat at TGF Fridays? Keep walking. There's a Cheesecake Factory. Oh, look to the right. But Benihana still exists. Had no idea. There's a howl at the moon. That's exciting. Oh, honey. How about over there's a Hooters. Like, it is the. If you were to create generic Ville usa, you would make Indianapolis's downtown. And I do think now it's nice to be able to walk to everything. But I just had to once again, remember that Indianapolis is basically a strip mall turned into a city.

[Matt]

The greatest stake in the world. I'm talking all 200 in the state, and that's overrated. It's. It's. It's the greatest steak in the world. I mean, literally, you can look it up. It's the greatest steak in the world. A very walkable city.

[Jay Williams]

Where, first of all, where do I look up? Greatest steak in the world.

[Matt]

Look it up. It's in there.

[Jay Williams]

James, I just want you to Google.

[Matt]

The greatest steak in the world.

[Jay Williams]

Don't do Google. Just Google. You google greatest steak in the world and tell me you have really good.

[Matt]

People in Indianapolis, man. Like, it's a really cool city. Really cool people, man, in Indianapolis. I love it. That's open to like 4am that little.

[Jay Williams]

Give me an example. Give me. Give me a really cool person in Indianapolis.

[Matt]

I know a lot of really cool people, man.

[Jay Williams]

Give me one.

[Matt]

I've had a great time. I have to say names, but I know some amazing, amazing people. I do. Legitimately. Best party of my life. I went to in any one of the best parties.

[Jay Williams]

What was the best part of your life?

[Matt]

It was me, Tony. Me, Tony Romo Barkley was there.

[Jay Williams]

Wait a minute, hang on. It was Sean Payton. You, Tony Romo, Charles Barkley and Sean Payton went to a party.

[Matt]

More guys.

[Jay Williams]

On this show.

[Matt]

None of them, no joke, I'm in the vip. In the vip. Like, they had to Create a new.

[Jay Williams]

Oh, you're in the VIP of.

[Matt]

In the vip. So I'm behind the scene. Second rope. It was vibes, man. It was.

[Jay Williams]

How did you get there?

[Matt]

Made a call.

[Jay Williams]

Who did you call?

[Matt]

I called a guy I knew with the Pacers.

[Jay Williams]

Okay. And do you think if I told Charles Barkley, Tony Romore, Sean Payton about that night, they would say, oh, yeah, I got to hang out with Myron Metcalf?

[Matt]

If they know what's good for. I mean, if they. I mean, I think they appreciated the moment. Yeah, I think so.

[Jay Williams]

All right, James, what does it say is the best steakhouse? It's the best steak in the world.

[Matt]

I mean, whatever you Google, best steak in the world just tells you the type of steak. It's like wagyu or whatever.

[Myron]

But I'm guessing he's talking about St. Elmo's, right?

[Matt]

Is that the. It's not on any top 10 that I can find.

[Jay Williams]

Thank you.

[Matt]

Go to a different site.

[Jay Williams]

Go to the Cheesecake Factory list. It is on there. We will get more on the tournament with Jay Williams next here on Sunday Morning.

[Matt]

Matt and Myron, the podcast it's time for basketball and Uber Eats is dropping deals on game day favorites to keep you locked in on the action. Like when you're craving a buzzer beater but also buffalo wings or when an upset makes you want to ugly cry into a pizza. And right now, Uber Eats has game day deals from McDonald's, Popeyes, Pizza Hut, Wendy's and hundreds more local favorites so you can keep your eyes on the ball and your hands on a hamburger. Order now only on Uber Eats. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

[Jay Williams]

You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. John Shire is bringing this Duke team to the final Four.

[Myron]

Not gonna be your night every night. And just knowing that the rest of guys got my back and are gonna make those plays.

[Jay Williams]

Everything we did was to get back here and then have the team have the opportunity to go to San Antonio to go to the final four. It is Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio presented by Progressive Insurance. He doesn't answer the phone for everybody, Myron, but he answers it for Sunday morning. Jay Williams. Busy time of year for you, Jay. Thank you for hopping on and you know, Jay.

[Myron]

What's up, Myron?

[Matt]

What up?

[Jay Williams]

This is your we, we, we're excited to have you. And I, you know your Duke Blue Devils made the final four. Those of us that are Haters probably hoped it would never happen again after coach Kayla. But they're. But they're good. So I can't, I can't.

[Myron]

You guys got close. Your squad got close.

[Jay Williams]

No, no, we were good. We had year at Kentucky. But let me ask you about this Duke team. I mean, I contend that your Duke team is the second best Duke team next to 92. I think your team, when they were rolling. I watched those games up close when I was in law school, and you guys were amazing. So let's just say I'm right, that you're the second best Duke team. Leitner teams the first. Is there a chance that this one could be third?

[Myron]

I, you know, at the beginning of the year, Matt, when Duke was playing Kentucky, I was on at halftime and Kentucky won a hell of a game. But at halftime, I said, this is the most talented Duke team I've seen since our 2001 team because of their sides, because of their length, and it was just the way they defended. Like, I can't tell you guys how many times I've yelled at the TV over the last 15 years. Even when we won championships where we're playing zone defense, right? Or when we're, when we're switching, we're staying parallel to the basket, we're not actually denying playing passing lanes, forcing deep offenses to start from half court. This team does that. Now, they lost that game, if you will. Call me crazy for my commentary on Duke, but, like, I firmly believed it because of the way malawats can protect the rim, because the way can nipple and flag defend. Tyrese Proctor, all these guys. And every time I was, I was actually at the game last night, and they just continue to beat you in a variety of ways. So, yes, I, you know, you have to win it, but I would probably say top three, top four Duke teams of all time if they close the deal.

[Matt]

Jay, I want to let you in on a conversation that's happening with some folks at espn. I got a text from someone that said, is Cooper Flag in Duke's all time starting five? Now, let me tell you my all time starting five at Duke. It would be you, J.J. redick, Grant Hill, Christian Laidner, and then Zion or Cooper. Is it outrageous to add Cooper Flag into that conversation at this point of his career?

[Jay Williams]

Shane bad erasure here, by the way. Not even putting him in the conversation, but go ahead.

[Matt]

Great player. Yeah.

[Myron]

Shane Batty a great player. But I mean, it's the potential with Cooper just because of the way he initiates the offense. I mean, I said he's going to be an all time great player. Even if he's here for a year and just take his numbers and compound them over four years like that's how you. And, and if you want to inflate them by you know, 5%, 8%, do that because he will get better every single year. Look, there's nothing, like there's nothing that's going to jump off the page to the average viewer like a Zion. Right? But to the trained eye like you two, you see all the intricacies that he brings to the game and offensively, I mean Shane didn't really become that type of offensive weapon until really middle of junior year, senior year. The fact that this dude is the second youngest player in college basketball right now and putting up the numbers he's putting out with the efficiency and the way he is defensively, I don't think that's an absurd conversation, Myron. Not at all.

[Jay Williams]

Alright, so now I want to ask you the next question, which is the one and done question. I sort of consider myself a student of freshman success because this was how we built it here at Kentucky for so long. And I think the best modern freshman are in some order. Carmelo Durant, Tyler Hansborough, Anthony Davis, Zion and now Cooper Flagg. That's my six of the kind of modern. I put Anthony Davis first because he won the national player of the year. He won the title. Anyone defensive player of the year, which people forget went on won a gold medal. Where would you put Cooper in that list if they close it out and win the championship?

[Myron]

I don't think talent wise he's like A.D. i think A.D. is different. I think A.D. continues to prove to be different when he's healthy. I mean but he, he probably KD talent wise off the charts too. Like once again like KD team wise didn't have the same.

[Jay Williams]

No, they weren't.

[Myron]

I don't know if I would put. Yeah, but I don't know if I would put Cooper ahead of those two. I think those two are like generational type players. I think Cooper's generational. I just think that's a different level.

[Jay Williams]

Who were the other else had a great freshman season by the way. Jay Admire and I know you agree that we don't ever talk about was my man Michael Beasley at Kansas State. People forget how good he was.

[Myron]

He was like that one killer. Yeah, he was a killer. But I would probably say he's. I mean I would get him higher than Tyler just because I think it translates differently as much as Tyler had a great friend. I never saw it translate. I think the thing that makes Coop different is not only is it dominant in college, but you guys also see it's going to translate, right? There's certain players in college. I'm like, I don't know if it's going to translate fit all these different things to the league. He's similar, kind of like on that mellow kd, not on that level or ad. I'm not sure he's going to be a guy like he's going to be maybe one of the greatest scorers, but I think right outside those three, he probably fits in that bucket.

[Matt]

Jay, who's the biggest threat remaining to Duke right now? Obviously they played Auburn and beat them. Florida has had some incredible moments. What do you think is the team that Duke should most fear from this point forward?

[Myron]

I mean, I think everybody should fear everybody, Myron. I mean, all this stuff, all this stuff is a toss up, man. I mean, I think Duke is. Auburn got their chip back yesterday, which is kind of like Auburn has been teetering. Like I, I would not have been surprised if Auburn got clipped early just with the way they finished the SEC regular season. Matt. Like, you know, watching them play, they, they were just, they were off. They were still winning games. But it didn't make you feel confident. Versus Michigan was the first time I was like, okay, like that's the Auburn team I saw in the middle of the SEC season that was dominating everybody. Florida just, I don't feel like Florida's played their best basketball yet. I don't, you know, which is scary to say considering that Walt Clayton Jr. Is just putting up buckets like crazy. But I would probably say top, the bottom, it would be Auburn just because that loss that they have in their, like, Bruce is so great at finding causes and that loss they had in Durham, like, I, I've sat in those locker rooms before where Bruce goes through the list of all the players that were ranked ahead of the Janai Brooms and Dylan Carwells and all these guys, and he's great at finding motivation that way. So I would, I would probably say Auburn. But I did want to, I want to pose this to you guys for a second. Do you think, you think DePaul or UNLV is looking at their situations and saying maybe we should have hired John Shire, Maybe we should have taken a.

[Jay Williams]

Chance on Josh Shire? Shocked me to be this good. I mean, usually following a legend is a good way to fail and he's done an amazing job. I know you Got to get out here. But let me ask you a quick question. I want your take on this. Myron and I were talking about it earlier. A lot of people who are casuals to college basketball saw the lack of Cinderella's all that said college basketball is in a bad place. I go, I think Myron agrees with me, I go the opposite way. I think the quality of college basketball is the best it's been in a decade. The powers are good. This sweet 16, probably 14 of these 16 teams were great teams. I think college basketball is at one of its higher places maybe since back when you played. Do you agree with that?

[Myron]

Mj, you and I, we've had, we've had our moments on live national TV and I think this is another one like in a positive way man. Like I, I love where the game is at and don't get me wrong, I don't mind a Cinderella. I love the storytelling and for like the average viewers that get a chance to listen to the Loyola Chicago's and all these stories, it's a great feel because all the morning shows run with it. But from just like a basketball purist, we get the best product at the time where the game is the most visible. Like to me that is now I want to see who the real winner is. Like this to me feels like I'm finding out who the best team. Think about like when we get champions you can say oh they had the easiest way, easiest pathway, whatever it might be. But now I find like we're finding out like if we get some of these top teams coming in like who the best team is and that's rare in a one game series. It's rare but we're going to find that out this weekend coming up.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, I just think it has made having 21 year olds play basketball is more entertaining than most. Not all Cooper flag an exception. 18 year old, 3 to 4 years.

[Myron]

Today MJ 24, 25 year old well.

[Jay Williams]

Some of these guys may be a.

[Matt]

Little, some of these dudes got some 401ks and stuff out here, man.

[Jay Williams]

Some of those Houston players are gonna be getting retired eligibility left.

[Myron]

Myron.

[Matt]

I might as well check.

[Jay Williams]

Jay Williams ESPN basketball football analysts thank you very much. There you go. That was interesting. Now you, you had your all time Duke team ready. Is that in your head for some reason?

[Matt]

Well, I just, it's just interesting, you know if I say it or Twitter says it, you know no one cares for Jay Williams who I think is on that team to say oh no doubt that carries a lot of weight.

[Jay Williams]

Jay Williams, by the way, I think Fox Sports put out top 10 dookies of all time and didn't have Jay Williams. And I just said that person should have been fired because like Jay Williams in college. No, I mean he's number two to Leitner. Leitner's one, but he's two. If you didn't watch Jay Williams playing college and you just see him as the guy sitting next to that dude who coached at Virginia Tech, you would be like, who is this guy? But is a player. He was bad.

[Matt]

Three guards where I, I wish if you didn't have the chance to see them live, would have changed how you viewed the whole game. Jay Williams is on that list.

[Jay Williams]

Yep.

[Matt]

Derrick Rose is on that list. And John Wall, that's. You saw those three guys with you.

[Jay Williams]

Totally.

[Matt]

Those three, that was different, man.

[Jay Williams]

Those three dudes in college, J Will, Derrick Rose and John Wall, it was just different. And it translated the pros a little bit for Rose, a little bit for Wall. But in college it was like watching a different sport with those guys and I and sometimes that gets forgotten. And I hate that because they were.

[Matt]

Amazing, incredible guys, man. Incredible to see live.

[Jay Williams]

Yes, totally agree. Different gear. Eight, eight, eight, say espn. We are getting you ready here for all the action two games going on today. Also, there's other stuff. You got the women's tournament, the NBA is in month number 14 of this season and baseball has started. That's all next here on Sunday Morning.

[Matt]

With Matt, Matt, Matt and Myron. The podcast.

[Jay Williams]

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[Matt]

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[Jay Williams]

Too legit.

[Matt]

Yeah.

[Jay Williams]

That's right. Little too legit to quit, Myron. Hey, hey. You got no response to that? You were the one that was talking about MC Hammer. Now you're just sitting there.

[Matt]

I said, yeah, I don't know. What do you want me to. You want me to wrap the words?

[Jay Williams]

I just wanted you to say something about MC Hammer. You were asking me today. I. Yeah, you had. You had something about MC Hammer. We're setting you up, and you're just sitting there in silence. What is your mc?

[Matt]

I was listening to song. I was vibing the two legit to quit. But my question was, how old do you think he is?

[Jay Williams]

How old do I think MC Hammer is?

[Matt]

Yes.

[Jay Williams]

Well, all right. So two, so can't touch. This came out like 91. And I would say he was probably 26, 27 in 91. So I'm gonna say he's 57 years old.

[Matt]

MC Close. MC Hammer. 63.

[Jay Williams]

63.

[Matt]

63.

[Myron]

Wow.

[Jay Williams]

So MC Hammer is 63 years old today.

[Matt]

You know, it's his birthday.

[Jay Williams]

Today's his birthday. Well, happy birthday, MC Hammer. You remember he was MC Hammer then. He just became Hammer. And he tried to put out, like, hardcore music. It didn't really work.

[Matt]

He went to Death Row Records.

[Jay Williams]

He went to Death Row, which didn't seem like the right place for him. And then now he's tough.

[Matt]

No, no, no. You should. You should go on YouTube and read the stories about people who mess with MC Hammer. There's like a whole. There's a whole YouTube string of. Of people who will tell you, like, they mess with MC Hammer and it was a bad idea. Like, I'm not making this up.

[Jay Williams]

You say you really. You're saying it's really, really tough.

[Matt]

MC Hammer, the. The glitz and the gold and all that. Yeah, like, in terms of, like, who he was, people were afraid of him, really. Like, there are stories. There are stories of people.

[Jay Williams]

You're trying to tell me that there was, like, a gang led by Boys to Men as well?

[Matt]

I'm saying you have to watch out.

[Jay Williams]

If Shy is walking up and down your block.

[Matt]

Listen, there are people who said things about MC Hammer in interviews and on records.

[Jay Williams]

Really?

[Matt]

And it didn't go well for them. I'm telling. There's a whole YouTube video. There's a video.

[Jay Williams]

First of all, if it's on YouTube, it must be true.

[Matt]

So you're telling people who actually experienced it saying it, though. It's like, people who. I'll give you an example. There's a rapper named Red Man. He Said something in a. In a lyric where he mentioned. He said something like MC Hammer's mama something. He was trying to be cool. MC Hammer confronted him and was basically like, don't let it happen again. Or, you know, like, there are MC Hammer stories.

[Jay Williams]

Mikey, are you believing that MC Hammer. Is this the guy that wore Hammer pants and those glasses? A bat boy for the Oakland A's? Are you believing.

[Matt]

I'm looking up on Google now, and there is something that says Red Man. There's a story that MC Hammer once checked Redman so hard that Red man had to apologize. There were people who. There's a. There's a rapper named MC Search who said something about MC Hammer on the record, Goes to the west coast and basically was surrounded at a mall with various. By various individuals, and he was in a very dangerous situation.

[Jay Williams]

Had a group of tough.

[Matt]

I'm not. I'm not tying MC Hammer to anything other than to tell you that people who mess with MC Hammer. It sounds like Matt regretted it. That's all I'm saying.

[Jay Williams]

Did you. Did you say regret it?

[Matt]

That's all I'm telling you.

[Jay Williams]

You would have. Myron made for the song pumps in a bump, and MC Hammer showed up at his house.

[Matt]

See, I'm telling you, man. Don't mess with MC Hammer.

[Jay Williams]

Look at you. You're worried about.

[Matt]

The stories are real, man.

[Jay Williams]

All right, all right. I don't want to question MC Hammer. I'm gonna try to keep my man Myron safe. One thing that's not safe are the rosters of college basketball teams in the portal transition era. Thank you very much. The portal has already opened. In case you didn't know, it opened on Monday. So there's like. I think there's like 1200 players already in the portal right now.

[Matt]

It's amazing.

[Jay Williams]

And Tom Izzo, who's playing today for a shot at the Final Four, was asked if he had started working on the portal for next year, and here's what he said. What my team's done has been incredible.

[Myron]

And I'm not ready to move on. So, Judd, I followed what you said.

[Jay Williams]

You know, I'm going to worry today about the guys I got in this program that have done an incredible job this year, and that's it. And if that costs me later, so be it.

[Myron]

But Tom Izzo isn't cheating the people who. That he has that have been loyal.

[Jay Williams]

To him for this chaos that is going on out there. So he basically is like, I'll worry about next year after we lose. Now there's already been. Players commit. I mean, like Donovan Dent, maybe the number one player out of the portal. He picked UCLA a couple days ago. Kid from North Dakota just picked South Carolina. I mean, there's already guys making their picks. Do you agree with Tom Izzo of. I ain't worried about next year. I'm trying to win a title this year.

[Matt]

I think that works for Tom and others like him. Right. Like, Tom is probably the. Not the right person to ask that question because he's been doing this for 30 years, won a national championship, all these final Fours. He is. He is a guy who will get talent based on what he's already built. I think the guys in the Mark Pope kind of lane, where that generation is going to have to rebuild every year, it's. It's a better question for them because the Mark post of the world can't just focus on this team.

[Jay Williams]

Well, I can't answer for Mark Pope. So they played on. They played Thursday, Friday night, and on Thursday day, they were making calls to recruits for next year. I think those guys felt like they didn't have a choice.

[Matt]

I talked to a coach. I did a game for tv, and I won't name the coach, but the coach. The day the portal opened, he kind of comes out scrambling. He's like, I've been in the portal all night. He said, I just did the scout for this game.

[Jay Williams]

Okay.

[Matt]

The game was that night.

[Jay Williams]

You don't want to tell.

[Matt]

I mean, like, he had just watched film because he was.

[Jay Williams]

Hammer will come after you if you tell us who the.

[Matt]

No, but. But my point is, I think guys like Tom Izzo aren't the right people to ask because their legacies are set. Whereas if you're Mark Pope and you answer that. If Mark Pope was asked that question, I headed to sweet 16. And he would have said, I don't care about the portal. I'm focusing on this team. No Kentucky fan would have been happy.

[Jay Williams]

Yeah, you got to do both. I think a lot of these guys got to do both. First of all, I. I was just talking. We were just talking with Jay Williams about how much I like where college basketball is now. I still believe that. I do think, though, they need to, like, wait till after the tournament's. Open the portal. I think there's no reason, like, in football, people get mad that they open the portal during the playoffs, but they don't have a choice because there are semesters in school, Myron. Right. Like, the second semesters of school start. So I know that people, like, roll their eyes at that. But that's why they do it, is you got to get enrolled in college. That's not true now. So I don't understand why you couldn't wait two more weeks, let these teams finish the tournament. You know, there's another tournament going on. It's like called the Crown Fox. I don't know, on your head challenge or something.

[Matt]

And there's like, there's names, but yeah, the crown.

[Jay Williams]

I think it's called like the Crown Fox on your head challenge. And it's. And it's like 16 teams, but those teams haven't even started yet. So like, I do think they should put these off, Myron, until after the tournament before you open the portal.

[Matt]

Yeah. You can't do that though, because now people in your lane, the lawyers, everyone's afraid of them. So like everyone, everyone's afraid to do anything that appears.

[Jay Williams]

But you can set deadlines on when the portal opens. Courts would uphold that. But people, people just like lawyers will do. I mean, well, lawyers, when you break the law and set the date of when you can open the portal is not a law problem, Matt.

[Matt]

You know the details and intricacies of that. People are afraid of lawyers. Like that is the constant theme over the last three years of college basketball.

[Jay Williams]

Well, they should. Anyone talk lawyers and MC Hammer, if MC Hammer has a lawyer.

[Matt]

I'm just.

[Jay Williams]

That's.

[Matt]

You make a light of it. But like they are really afraid that if they do something that seems to restrict players.

[Jay Williams]

If you have a deadline on March, whatever it is, you can move it back two weeks. It'll be fine. Like it's not going to be against the law, but they need to make that change. It's not fair to the is those of the world who are still playing to be punished and be behind on the portal. I think that's fair mistake. We will get ready. More from the NCAA tournament.

[Matt]

Matt and Myron, the podcast rapper Sean Diddy Combs was a king maker. He had wealth, fame and power until it all came crashing down. Federal investigators raiding two homes owned by.

[Jay Williams]

Hip pop mogul Sean Diddy Combs.

[Matt]

I'm Brian Buckmire, an ABC News legal contributor.

[Jay Williams]

As Diddy heads to trial, we trace.

[Matt]

His remarkable rise and fall. And what could be next? Listen to Bad Rap the Case Against Diddy, a new series from ABC Audio. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.