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- [00:00]
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons here and I'm going to be brutally honest with you. I was skeptical about ordering plants online. Like this is actually going to show up alive at my house. But after my wife and I ordered from Fast Growing Trees, convinced they had this thing down to a science, they've built a whole system to protect your plants until they arrive. They even have a lab where they test against cold, heat, humidity, you name it, any condition, they've got it and they thrive. We couldn't believe how good our plants looked when they arrived at our doorstep and everything showed up up exactly how he expected. A perfectly healthy plant that was easy to unbox and ready to go. Every order is backed by their Alive and Thrive garon tea and you'll get ongoing support from real knowledgeable experts. They have unbelievable deals on spring planting essentials. And right now you can get an additional 20% off your first order with the code Sports at checkout. That's 20% off@fast growing trees.com with the code Sports terms and conditions apply. Again, that's fast growing trees.com code sports.
- [01:07]
Myron Metcalf
This is Matt and Myon, the podcast Myon Metcalf. Andre Snell is here on Matt Myon. Andre Snell is filling in for Matt Jones here on ESPN Radio, ESPN App Series 6 on channel 80. We are presented by Progressive Insurance. ESPN Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. Progressive Insurance makes bundling home and auto easy. Learn more at Progressive. We are now joined by the great Ryan McGee, co host of Marty McGee and one of the more challenging weeks in NASCAR history and certainly one of more challenging weeks in sports where Kyle Busch died at the age of 41 following complications from a severe case of pneumonia. Today is the Coca Cola 600, a big event in NASCAR. Ryan. I remember after Kobe died, guys on the sidelines in tears. I remember some guys couldn't even play, just couldn't bring themselves to get out there on the court after what had happened. How are these guys going to get out there on the track in a week like this? How are they going to pull this off?
- [02:20]
Ryan McGee
You know, it's interesting because and you mentioned in Kobe, Danny Hamlin this week, that was the comparison he made with Kyle Busch and Kobe. Same age, but just but a generational talent that maybe didn't have as many rings as some other guys, but certainly it was someone that influenced the entire generation of athletes in their sport. And to answer your question, this is what race car drivers do and it sounds odd and it sounds weird and it's hard to explain to people but you know, you guys know this. I was covering NASCAR. I was covering all motorsports. I'm at the Indy 500 today. I was covering all motorsports. In the late 90s and early 2000s, we were killing guys all the time. And you know when, when I felt weird about it was when it had happened so many times that we had a guy named Tony Roper was a truck series driver. He got killed at Texas and the next day at Talladega, nobody was talking about it. Like they just went and raced. And this is different than that. You know, the feeling now is. And Steve o', Donnell, the president of nascar, said it was Kyle would be pissed off of us if we didn't run this race. And so that's the approach. And so you do it sad. I think about when they went to Rockingham, my hometown, the week after Dale Earnhardt died, and it didn't feel right. But it's just the way that they've always done it. And so the idea is you pay tribute to him by doing the thing that he loved the most and hopefully putting on a good show in a race that he, he loved as much as anyone.
- [03:48]
Andre Snellings
So, Ryan, I heard you say just now, you know, when comparing him with Kobe, that they were both generational talents with maybe not as many rings as some of their competitors compatriots. But one of the things I've been really learning a lot about Kyle Busch this week is how he had so many wins across so many different levels of racing. So I guess how unique is it for a driver to be so prolific across all the genres of racing?
- [04:16]
Ryan McGee
Well, so he won number nine all time on the all time wins list in the cup series. And then he's the all time wins leader in the next two. NASCAR only has three national series and the next two national series. If he won a week ago in the truck series, he has twice as many wins almost as anybody else in the history of that series. That series has existed since the mid-90s. And then in what we now call the O'Reilly series, he's called the Bush series Nationwide, you know, expanded, whatever. He's the all time wins leader in that and his leads almost as big.
- [04:48]
Michael C. Wright
So it's.
- [04:49]
Ryan McGee
It is, it's hell. At one point they had to make a rule, they put a restriction rule on the number of races, truck series and O'Reilly races that the cup guys could win because Kyle was winning so many of them, it was making them mad. And so it's just all racers want to do is win trophies. Like they will tell you, the money's great, the rings are great, and, you know, the perks are great. Having a plane and beautiful wife and whatever else.
- [05:17]
Michael C. Wright
At the end of the day, all
- [05:19]
Ryan McGee
they really want is trophies. And he won more trophies than anyone in the history of stock car racing. And no one will ever break that record, ever. And it's, it was, it was a privilege to watch it. But, you know, almost 240 wins in the three National Series. No one's ever going to do that again. And it's just because he loved it. I was, I was at Bristol Motor Speedway when he won the truck race on Friday, the O'Reilly race on Saturday, and the cup race on Sunday. And he did it twice. And so no one else is going
- [05:49]
Michael C. Wright
to do that again.
- [05:51]
Myron Metcalf
Ryan McGee joins us from Marty and McGee talking about the passing of Kyle Busch. You know what I appreciate, Ryan, and when you see a co host, Marty Smith, give him a pat on the back because I think he's just been excellent all week. What I appreciate, and you have two opposite. I appreciate the honesty this week about Kyle Busch because, you know, from what I've gathered, he seemed like the kind of guy who would tell you what he thought of you to your face. And on some level, there were people who revered him, maybe feared him a little bit. Like, how was he viewed among his colleagues in nascar?
- [06:29]
Ryan McGee
Well, I can tell you, hey, he was viewed by me. I couldn't stand him. You know, he was so difficult to deal with, and there were times where he couldn't stand me. I've used this line a lot over the last couple days, but it's the absolute truth. You know, Marty and I both, one of the very first conversations he and I, the one had with Kyle Busch, Kyle Busch questioned our relationship with our mother, you know, very loudly. And that's just kind of how he approached it. But then as the years went on, and I think this is the most important lesson about Kyle. We are allowed to evolve as human beings. And you know, I'm sitting at the Napoleon Speedway getting ready for 500 and he made his NASCAR national debut at the age of 16, and it was just around the corner over here at Annapolis Raceway Park. And I think about that kid. And then when he was at the height of his powers and winning championships and, you know, winning seven, eight races a year, he was such a pain in the butt to deal with as a media member. But then when he was good, he was so good. And then as he became older and he became a father and he became a husband, he became an advocate for women who were struggling with pregnancy because he and his wife Samantha had struggled with that. And. But he still kept the fire. Like he figured out the balance, right? I mean, again, going back to Kobe, if you ever talk to Kobe, as smart a human being and as polite a human being as you would know, but he's also the guy that ran through his former teammate in the Olympics and stood over him to make sure he knew, you know, we're friends, but we ain't friends. And that's exactly who Kyle Busch was.
- [07:59]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah.
- [08:00]
Andre Snellings
I mean, everything that you were saying in that segment, I was just thinking the parallels between he and Kobe, it's amazing parallels and it's amazing tragedy both gone too soon. But we want to lighten it up a little bit here. Ryan and I want to ask you a little bit about this Weenie 500 this weekend.
- [08:22]
Ryan McGee
So. All right. So we're all, we all are, we're esteemed sports journalists, right? And we all work on all these big stories. And you know, we, we have stories that you work on for, for months, you know, and stories about people and hardship and, you know, maybe you change somebody's life through a story. And then I write this story about the Weenie 500 and it's the number one story on ESPN.com and it's on the front page. And I'm on McAfee talking about it, but it is a marketer's dream. And I did write a big story about. They did it a year ago and it's the six wiener mobiles that Oscar Meyer has run around the country all year long. And they converge on Indianapolis and it's a two lap race, the fastest those things can go at 60 miles an hour. And talking to the Fox broadcast team, you know that they're about to go do the Indy 500 right now. Townsend Bell and James Henscliffe and those guys, they said there is no greater danger zone as a broadcaster than spending, you know, 10 minutes calling the Weenie 500. And they are encouraging you to use as many Weenie puns as you can. And I can tell you that they crossed the line at least a couple times on Friday. And Marty and I definitely crossed the line talking about it during our show on Saturday.
- [09:36]
Myron Metcalf
Well, it sounds like in that race somebody's going to come up short. I don't know who it is.
- [09:41]
Michael C. Wright
No, that's it.
- [09:42]
Ryan McGee
But I asked the Oscar Mayer people, I said, so can they run this race rain or shine? And like, the head of marketing for Oscar Meyer looked at me and she said, listen, there's nothing faster than a wet wing. I was like, okay, thank you. That's my. Thank you for the quote.
- [09:59]
Myron Metcalf
Listen, now I'm just thinking of puns attached to it. I think that'll be the best part of it. He's Ryan McGee. Marty and McGee. We got about a minute left, Ryan. I know a guy in Indy and I told him all of the events I've been to in sports. He said the Indy 500 is a bucket list item for any sports fan. Why is that and what will we see today?
- [10:23]
Ryan McGee
Well, it's called the greatest spectacle in racing and that's what it is. And everything that you know about motorsports probably was invented here. Hell, the first Indy 500, 1911, the guy that won the race, Ray Haroun, the first ever rear view mirror. I went and looked at it in the museum yesterday. I'm like, that's the first time anybody looked check themselves out in the mirror. It was in this car. And so just the history of it and the spectacle of it and you know, it's. And it's down to the minute traditions, right? It's the Purdue marching band. It's the playing of Taps. It's the marching in of the military, you know, as Thunderbirds fly over. It just gives you chills. And the first time the words, you know, racers, start your engines was spoken here and now you get to recreate it for the 110th time. And it's just whether you care a thing about auto racing or not, you have to come to this event because it's just, it is, it is sensory overload. And those cars will blow your mind
- [11:15]
Michael C. Wright
when they go by.
- [11:17]
Myron Metcalf
He is the great Ryan McGee of Marty McGee. Thanks as always, brother.
- [11:21]
Ryan McGee
Hey, appreciate y', all, always.
- [11:24]
Myron Metcalf
That's Marty, that's Ryan McGee. Been doing an incredible job just on reporting on Kyle Busch and everything that's happening. Tragic week in the racing world. Coming up next Sunday headlines. This is Matt Myron on ESPN Radio and the ESPN app Matt and Myron, the podcast.
- [11:48]
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- [12:29]
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons here. And I'm gonna be brutally honest with you. I was skeptical about ordering plants online. Like this is actually going to show up alive at my house. But after my wife and I ordered from Fast Growing Trees, convinced they have this thing down to a science, they've built a whole system to protect your plants until they arrive. They even have a lab where they test against cold, heat, humidity, you name it. Any condition, they've got it. They and they thrive. We couldn't believe how good our plants looked when they arrived at our doorstep and everything showed up exactly how we expected. A perfectly healthy plant that was easy to unbox and ready to go. Every order is backed by their Alive and Thrive Garon tea. And you'll get ongoing support from real knowledgeable experts. They have unbelievable deals on spring planting essentials. And right now you can get an additional 20% off your first order with the code sports at checkout. That's 20% off at fast growing trees.com with the code sports terms and conditions apply. Again, that's fast growing trees.com code sports.
- [13:39]
Myron Metcalf
Myra Metcalf, Andre Snell, it's here on Matt Myron ESPN Radio. The ESPN App Series XM Channel 80. We are presented by Progressive Insurance, 888-729-377-6888, say ESPN, joined by Andre Snellings, who was filling in for Matt Jones. Tune in for baseball action tonight as the Angels host the Rangers. Coverage begins at 6:30 Eastern on ESPN radio and of course, the ESPN app. And now we do this every week. Andre, it's time for Sunday Headlines. Extra, Extra. Real models the Sunday Headlines. All right, we got my boy Cam. Or is Rachel running it? Who's running it? Is Cam or Rachel doing it? Who's doing it?
- [14:24]
Cam
It could be me. I can hop in.
- [14:26]
Myron Metcalf
All right, Cam, what we got for Sunday Headlines?
- [14:28]
Cam
Now I didn't know this until you brought this up today and I could not stop laughing, but Ray J, he gets knocked out, man. What you got for me on that, Myron?
- [14:39]
Myron Metcalf
Well, let's make sure our listeners know who Ray J is. Ray J, he had a couple of songs. The brother of R and B singer Brandy once dated Kim Kardashian. That's all I'll say about that. But it's kind of become a dude who for 20 years has just been out there in reality TV and social media, and that's kind of what he does. And he was a part of this streaming event where these guys fought each other. He got knocked out by a dude named Super Hot Fire. Yeah, that right, Andre.
- [15:15]
Andre Snellings
That is correct.
- [15:16]
Myron Metcalf
So they fought in MMA rules and Sky Super Hot Fire knocked him out. I don't even know what to say. Andre, first off, you're 46, 47. If you're AJ, why are you fighting people?
- [15:27]
Andre Snellings
Yeah.
- [15:29]
Myron Metcalf
And why are you fighting a dude named Super Hot Fire? It just. It doesn't make any sense to me.
- [15:35]
Andre Snellings
I mean, there are so many layers to this. For someone who's been familiar with Ray J for a really long time, you described him in a very clinical way, but he's kind of like, he's one of the first kind of influencers of today, you know, mixed in the musical genre because he was introduced as Brandi's little brother. Brandi was a superstar, so for him to be the one that gets knocked out, he's on all types of reality shows that my wife watches sometimes. He's known for his antics. For him to get knocked out by the dude. Super Hot Fire, Some of y' all on the Internet might know him for his memes where he, like, he.
- [16:12]
Michael C. Wright
He.
- [16:12]
Andre Snellings
He raps badly and then poses and, like, his friends walk by holding their face like, ooh, yeah, he's a.
- [16:18]
Myron Metcalf
He's a very popular meme.
- [16:19]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, it's that dude is who knocked Ray J out. And if the slow mo of the knockout and like, the. The. The gone look in Ray J's eyes, it was just. There was so much to that.
- [16:30]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah. I mean, Ray J looked like he thought it was over.
- [16:32]
Andre Snellings
Yeah.
- [16:32]
Myron Metcalf
Like, he thought it was like he got hit and he was like, what am I doing? Which.
- [16:36]
Andre Snellings
Right.
- [16:36]
Myron Metcalf
What are you doing at 46, 47, whatever he is. What else we got, Cam?
- [16:43]
Cam
All right, now, I knew about this a little bit, but I was surprised with the results. Lance Stevenson submits Michael Beasley. Now, I saw a video where Michael Beasley, I forgot what boxer he was talking to, but he was like, oh, I've only been training for a day.
- [16:57]
Andre Snellings
Well, I.
- [16:58]
Cam
Obviously, he looked like it too. That's why the results happen.
- [17:02]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lance Stevenson and Michael Beasley, former NBA guys. Again, they did mma, which I don't know why you would do mma, Andre. Because the gloves are smaller. Yeah. So, like, the punches, you feel a lot more, you know, it's almost like a bare knuckle thing. But yet they fought. Lance Stevenson submitted Michael Beasley, and very fast. It wasn't like both guys were very unskilled. You could tell. But it just didn't make a lot of sense to me how we ended up in this situation. What made me most upset about it was like, why do these dudes need money? Yeah. You know, like, that was the part that probably bothered me more than anything was you had two guys who made a decent amount. I think both guys made somewhere around 35 million apiece.
- [17:54]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, solidly eight figures in their.
- [17:56]
Myron Metcalf
In their NBA careers. And now you're in a position where you got whatever you made last night. That's the sad part to me. Two guys. This is what you got to do to get a check. I didn't like that part of it.
- [18:08]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, no, I feel that, like, because there's the spectacle angle and there's the. You know, Lance Stevenson kind of made his career as an enforcer. You know, people remember him blowing in LeBron's ear. Michael Beasley was supposed to be the next, like, superstar. He was writing that. Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin. It was like back to. Back to back years. Um, but, yeah, you're right. You know, I think back to when Nate Robinson got knocked out by Jake Paul. You know, when you start seeing, like, these former NBA athletes that aren't trained boxers and. Or. Or MMA guys, and they. They end up fighting anyway, and it's like, well, a, why are they doing it? And B, you. Yeah, that's a little sad.
- [18:45]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of money to be back in the. I don't know, fighting on YouTube for whatever they got paid. That's a little ridiculous. Okay, Cam, what else?
- [18:52]
Cam
All right, Myron, my favorite college quarterback ever, Johnny Menzel. You said he won a fight yesterday.
- [18:59]
Myron Metcalf
He fought an influencer dude or some social media dude, too. On the same card. By the way, this is all on the same card on YouTube. Johnny Manziel, who looked like he hasn't been training since Texas A and M, but. But he. He won a fight, too. I just. I just don't understand. These guys are in their late 30s. Like, what are they doing? Why are they fighting?
- [19:24]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, I mean, like you mentioned earlier, there's the money aspect of it, but. So if he actually trains and keeps fighting, is he no longer Johnny Football now? He's what? Johnny mma?
- [19:34]
Myron Metcalf
I think yesterday was. It should be his last fight ever. You know, I just don't. I don't get it, man. But some of it was funny, like Ray J getting knocked out. I mean, that was. There was some comical aspect. I mean, I supporting him getting knocked out, but it was still, you know, it was a viral moment. But these other guys made millions in football and basketball, and yet they're doing this. What else, Cam?
- [19:57]
Cam
All right. Caitlin Clark, who is the grand marshal today for the Indy 500? The fever and her, they have like a weird situation. Her sitting out and the fever getting in trouble for that. Myron, what you have on that?
- [20:09]
Myron Metcalf
Well, I mean, Caitlin Clark sat out a game, which is fine, but it didn't follow protocols. You have to. Essentially, a team has to say when a player is out at a certain time before a game. They didn't do that. She's out. No one knows why. Coach doesn't really explain it. And then later, Caitlin Clark says, I sat out because she said due to injuries. It was a mental strain. Here's my thing. Yes, she's a superstar. So, like, these conversations are going to happen no matter what. I still hate that we just can't get to the basketball with the wnba. That no matter what happens, if it involves Caitlin Clark, if it involves anything attached to her, we just lose the spotlight to me on the incredible sport itself. Because everything she does becomes a lightning rod.
- [21:02]
Andre Snellings
Yeah. Front page news. And I just want to clarify on this point. Caitlin Clark sat out a game full stop, and then she's going to be the grand marshal for the Indy 500.
- [21:14]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah. Not like she's the grand marshal to sit out a game.
- [21:16]
Andre Snellings
Exactly. Yeah. That's important.
- [21:18]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah.
- [21:20]
Rachel
I'm going to jump in here and do one more real quick because I think it is so cool. So there is a British racer. So we have the Indy 500 and the Coke 600 today.
- [21:27]
Michael C. Wright
Yep.
- [21:28]
Rachel
Katherine Legg is gonna be the first woman to attempt to do the double. Now, if she is able to do it, not only she the first woman, she's the second person ever to be able to complete it. If she completes it.
- [21:42]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah.
- [21:42]
Rachel
Eleven hundred miles. What do you think?
- [21:44]
Myron Metcalf
I think it's. It's incredible. Yeah. Because I believe The Coca Cola 500 is in a place called Concord, North Carolina.
- [21:52]
Rachel
It's in Charlotte. Right outside of Charlotte.
- [21:55]
Myron Metcalf
Okay. So it's in Charlotte and then Indy. So she's gotta. You gotta make that transition. The wear and tear in your body in these races. Andre, to be able to try to do two is just incredible. To do one is amazing. I hope she can get the second one done too.
- [22:07]
Andre Snellings
Absolutely. Like, the level of endurance and just kind of iron person status that would be required to pull this off is amazing. So yeah, you know, kudos to her. I hope she can do it.
- [22:17]
Myron Metcalf
I hear people say that, you know, if you're a race car drafter, you're not necessarily an athlete. I've heard that from people. Do you know that race car drivers lose 10, 15, 20 pounds in every race? People have no idea the strain on your body. Coming up next, we're gonna talk about the Enhanced Games and how the spurs prepared to take the series back in okc. We'll tell you on Matt, Matt and Myron the podcast.
- [22:47]
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- [23:28]
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- [24:00]
Myron Metcalf
This is Myron Metcalf here on Matt Myon, joined by the great Andre Snellings filling in from Matt Jones here on ESPN radio. The ESPN apps here. Sex on channel 80. We are powered by Progressive Insurance. Sunday Headlines is brought to you by PayPal, the official peer to peer payment sponsor of the NFL. We are now joined by my guy that I just saw Minneapolis about a week ago. Michael C. Wright, ESPN NBA writer, now joins the show. Michael Wright, what is going on with the spurs and the performance we've seen the last couple of games? Will they bounce back in game four?
- [24:41]
Michael C. Wright
I think I guess what I could say about what's going on, I think the physicality and the grind of the playoffs is finally starting to take take a toll on a young team that has never been here before, you know, and as of right now, they're a little banged up in the backcourt and that makes it tough on everybody because Ms. Johnson, the coach, he Just said recently that, you know, Victor is the guy that, you know, he's the guy that builds all the advantages. But it's those three guys in the back court. You know, it's Dear Fogg, it's Stefan Castle, it's Dylan Harper. Those are the guys that help to exploit those advantages. But the problem is those guys are. Except, you know, with the exception of Steph Castle, Yaron and, and Dylan are, they're a little banged up right now. And so that's, that's an issue too. And then also I think San Antonio is starting to realize that, hey, we are not as deep as we might have thought we were coming into the playoffs. And it's not that the spurs lacking depth, it's just that Oklahoma City is, you know, a legit 13 players deep. So that's just. Those are some of the things I think the spurs are starting to realize. But at the same time, it's not like they're gonna, you know, just pack it in and go home. They, they, they plan to try to get them once a night here in San Antonio because the worst thing that can happen is, you know, you, you go down, go down three, one going to Oklahoma City. That, that, that would be the worst thing that could happen to them.
- [26:25]
Andre Snellings
So you mentioned de' Aaron and Dylan and their, their health concerns. They both played in the last game. They're not listed on the injury report for the next game, but they clearly didn't look like themselves even before Lou Dort fell into de' Aaron fox ankle. How healthy are they and is there any chance they could get apprecia, appreciably better in this series while still playing?
- [26:51]
Michael C. Wright
I would say they're not going to get any better with de'. Aaron. He's got a high right ankle sprain. And you saw him. Well, yeah, I think you saw him in Minneapolis. Yeah, he heard that thing in game four and he played, he kind of gutted it out and played in games five and six. And then it ended up being a situation where he kind of landed awkwardly and bamboo. That was it. And in Dylan's case, you saw, he only played 17 minutes in game three. And I think that's because that abductor, even though they, you know, they were like, oh, it's not that big a deal, he can, he can still play. I think it was bothering him and I think that's why he only played 17 minutes. And in those 17 minutes, he wasn't the dynamic player where you spin. He wasn't like the second coming of Mano Genoba, he's not attacking the basket and showing everybody that layup package. So I think that those are two big ones for them. And it's not even just what they do offensively as far as setting everybody else up. It's the ball pressure that they can put on guys defensively, and I think that's been a big part of what made the spurs successful during the regular season when they went 31 against the Oklahoma City Thunders. So I don't think either one of them is going to get any better. As a matter of fact, Mitch Johnson said in the Aaron Fox case, he said it's not a situation where it's going to get better if you keep playing. So this is just what they've got to. They've just got to fight their way through this.
- [28:21]
Myron Metcalf
He's Michael C. Wright, ESPN NBA Writer here joining Matt Meyer with myself, Myron Metcalf and Andre Snellings. Michael, we're seeing a lot about the Wimby fatigue factor. It's clear that he can't really come off the court if they're going to have a chance to win. How do you think he's handling just the wear and tear of this series?
- [28:42]
Michael C. Wright
Oh, it's taking a toll on him for sure. I was at practice yesterday. Now, I don't want to get aggregated here, but I will say that all the guys were in their workout gear and they were, you know, coming out on the court taking shots and Vic looked like he was in street clothes and he was leaving. And so I don't know if that was just to get as much treatment as he can going into tonight's game, but it's definitely taking a toll on him. But also he's having trouble figuring out what Oklahoma City is doing to him because on a night tonight basis he could be seeing Isaiah Harden fans, he could be seeing Chad Holmgren, he could be seeing Alex Caruso, Jada, but he was healthy and so, oh, even the other Jalen Williams. He's seen both Jalen Williams through this series as, you know, guys guarding him. So he hasn't been able to figure out exactly what Oklahoma City is doing. And let's be real here with under, they've done a great job of just switching it up every game on Victor, and so he hasn't had a chance to get comfortable and adjust to it, you know, where he could kind of diagnose what's going on and kind of make the corrections. And I think that's going to be the case against the night. I Think they'll throw something totally different at him tonight and he's going to have to figure that out.
- [30:00]
Andre Snellings
Well, okay, so Wimby's got to figure it out. And Fox and Harper probably aren't going to get much healthier, which to me puts a lot of pressure on the third of their dynamic young backcourt. And that's, you know, Stephon Castle. In the first two games he had some good moments, but he also had 20 turnovers. And in game three he seemed a little bit more subdued. So he. How does he find a new level and break through against this swarming Thunder defense?
- [30:28]
Michael C. Wright
It's going to be tough for him, but he needs the help of those other two guys in the backcourt. And you saw in game three the turnover. I think he might have had only one turnover in that game and that was because he kind of had a little relief because like throughout, like throughout the playoffs, for instance, he had never been the primary ball, ball handler on so many plays as he was like in games one and two. Like those two games, he, he was handling the ball on night in 97 plays. That's more than any playoff game he, he had, you know, he had done up to that point. And so yeah, that's why you saw the 20 turnovers and that 20 turnovers, that's the most in the postseason for, for one player and a two game span in the tracking era. And it's because of partly fatigue. He's got the ball all game. He said it himself, he said, you know, it's not really an excuse, he said, but fatigue has played a fact, a role in some of these turnovers. So just having those other two guys back gives him a lot of relief, you know, because de', Aaron, I mean, he had some turnovers in game three, but it took some of the pressure off of Steph and that's just what he's gonna need moving forward is those other guys step up and kind of take care of some of those ball handling duties. And then you also got to remember that on a night to night basis, Steph is going to get the toughest defensive assignment. And that's Che Gu Alexander in this case. And so, you know, he's doing it on both ends of the floor and it's taking up a lot of energy and that's why he needs the other guys help. And let's also look at the benches, man. I mean, I want to say they've been outscored. San Antonio's bench has been outscored 183, 64 yeah, that ain't gonna get it done, man. And the thing is, it's like, okay, we're talking about how, like, how thin the spurs are in the back court. Well, Oklahoma City just. Hey, they just roll out four guards off the bench, and every one of them scored in double figures in these last two games. So that is that. That depth has just been really overwhelming for the Spurs.
- [32:35]
Myron Metcalf
He is the great Michael C. Wright, ESPN NBA writer Michael, thank you as always, for joining us.
- [32:41]
Michael C. Wright
All right, my guy, Andre.
- [32:44]
Myron Metcalf
This series has been fascinating. Yeah, because it feels to me like a coaching masterpiece on OKC's part. Like, a lot of people are talking about the Hartenstein matchup on Wimby and kind of what that's doing to wear him down. To me, it's how they're taking him out of position defensively. You know, if he's helping ball side. All of a sudden these shooters are getting open. Looks Chad Holren bringing him out to the perimeter. They're doing so much to essentially say, we're going to make sure Wimy isn't in the place to. To make this more complicated for us offensively. And they've succeeded. And now you get to the end of the game, and he's played 37, 38, 39 minutes. You're just seeing this almost like a strategic effort to make sure at the end of these games, Wimy is so tired that it's just hard for him to. To be this freak of nature that we know him to be.
- [33:35]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I thought Dagno might have overthought the first game.
- [33:38]
Myron Metcalf
Right.
- [33:39]
Andre Snellings
Because, you know, the, The Holmgren Hartenstein combo is kind of their only hope in, in wearing down Wimy because they have the two bigs. The spurs really only play Wimby, you know what I'm saying? Like, because they don't have a true power forward. It's Wimby and four Wings out there. So, you know, I, I thought it was smart to kind of go back to A, that physicality and B, as you mentioned, moving him around on defense so that he's not in position to just, you know, block every shot and get. Get every rebound. Um, but, you know, I, I think that, that the Dylan Harper and Dear and Fox injuries, that matters. They're. They're. To me, they're the biggest element of what we've seen in this series so far. Because all season, the. The reason that The spurs went 4 and 1 against the Thunder, I've been saying this, the Thunder strength is they have like 10 dudes between 64 and 69 that can do everything on the basketball court and they just run at teams in waves. Whereas the spurs were one of the only teams in the NBA that seemed to be able to match that in their main rotations. But as we're seeing, they only maybe went five or six deep instead of ten deep. And the two that are injured are the, the, the two point guards on the team. And so you have Stephon Castle trying to play point, which isn't him. And then you also have more pressure on Wimby because he has to create for himself as opposed to getting the ball in places where he likes to score. So like, like those two injuries to me are where this series turned.
- [35:01]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah, I mean, I agree 100%. Dylan Harper, D' Aaron Fox, that matters. I also think this is one of those games where you know, if you lose game four and you're down three one, it's hard to imagine you coming back to win the series. So now you have to go big picture to me. San Antonio would have to go into the offseason saying what do we need to try to compete with a team like okc, which is still very young going forward. Coming up next, we're going to talk about will OKC be able to become one of the first legacy teams in years? And also an odd event that's happening that you should know about. This is Matt Myron on ESPN Radio and the ESPN Matt Myron the Pod.
- [35:42]
Ryan McGee
Foreign.
- [35:47]
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- [37:20]
Myron Metcalf
Today, Meyer Metcalfe. He's Andre Snellings here on Matt and Myron on ESPN radio. The ESPN app, SiriusXM Channel 80, presented by Progressive Insurance. Thanks for joining me, Andre. Matt is gone.
- [37:40]
Andre Snellings
Yes, sir.
- [37:40]
Myron Metcalf
So we're just kind of just doing our thing. They're playing now. They're playing like 1994 midnight radio to try to make us feel comfortable. They want us to feel like, all
- [37:51]
Rachel
right, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not taking more shots. You complained when I played the. The Childress music, and now I'm playing the music you asked for, and you're saying, I'm trying to make you more. This is on you, Myron Medgar.
- [38:05]
Myron Metcalf
No, Rachel. But you did say. I'm not trying to say back in your day. And then you kind of said it.
- [38:11]
Rachel
That was to make up for the shot you took at me earlier. So now you fired another one. Yeah, even squared. We're good.
- [38:18]
Myron Metcalf
We're even. I appreciate it, Rachel. You're doing a great job. Before we get to okc, in this legacy conversation, early in the show, we were talking about something called the Enhanced Games. If you don't know about these games, individuals who are Olympic athletes, I mean, some of the greatest athletes in the world have agreed to participate in these games where peds are legal. Now. A bunch of these guys have been flagged for PD use in the past. I don't believe that everyone participating was suddenly like, oh, I'm going to try steroids. A lot of these guys have a track record, if you look them up, where they've already used throughout their careers. And now there are no rules against which, obviously there are health concerns and all types of stuff attached to that. But these games are happening. And I've been asking people, would you support a league that said, okay, we're gonna try this in football, baseball, all these other sports. Because it does make me wonder if someone sees this, Andre, and goes, wait a minute, can I get a bunch of private equity money to try to make this applicable to other sports? And if that happened, would people support it? I'M curious.
- [39:26]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, I mean, it's a challenging thing, you know, because in sports nowadays, there is a sense and a justified one that there's probably a lot of PED use going on that just hasn't been caught. And because of that, a lot of viewers maybe have gotten jaded and feel like, well, you know what? Um, they're all using anyway. So I'm not so concerned about PEDs from a fan perspective. And that's what this, these enhancement games are trying to capitalize on. Like, if we put a product out there where we say, you know what, the guys can do whatever they want to do, we're not going to worry about the health concerns of it. We're just going to let them sign off on it and go out there and perform. Would people watch? And that's what they're betting on for tonight.
- [40:14]
Myron Metcalf
Well, and we've seen athletes who we knew were. I don't know if excessive is the right word. Well, excessive is the right word. Who lost their lives early.
- [40:23]
Andre Snellings
Yeah.
- [40:24]
Myron Metcalf
As a result of PD use. Right.
- [40:26]
Andre Snellings
Yeah.
- [40:26]
Myron Metcalf
At the same time, there are a bunch of people who used who are still walking around today. Or maybe the effects of it were more long term. Kind of like, yes, there are some severe cases of guys who had concussions in the NFL and that led to cte, but there are a bunch of guys who maybe the effects weren't as severe. So I don't know if people consider maybe the health effects the way that they do in other things that people use to harm themselves. But these are individuals who've consented to do this. They're going to do it. And it wouldn't surprise me if someone said, let's try this in other sports early in the show. What I said was a. I do think there's a fascination if someone suddenly hits 100 home runs and people go, wow. And will they look the other way? I think a lot of us looked the other way in the 1990s when Sammy Sosa McGuire and Barry Bonds were doing this. It wasn't like social media told us that steroid use was happening. We knew it. And it makes me wonder, Andre, if we're not headed to a world where all of these leagues say, here's a controlled program attached to, let's say, recovery based PEDs, which is what Barry Bonds said he was using. He said he needed to recover, not to hit a baseball. And then the penalties maybe are so severe that going against that isn't worth it. I don't know. But I also think the enhanced Games could be planting a seed for some folks to go, could this work in other sports? We have a doctor named Justin from New York on the line. Justin, would you support it? Enhanced games across other sports, Would you support anything like this? I imagine your answer. But you tell us,
- [42:02]
Michael C. Wright
hey, unsurprisingly, this is the stupidest idea I have ever seen.
- [42:08]
Ryan McGee
Eventually, someone is gonna die and the
- [42:12]
Michael C. Wright
games will be canceled.
- [42:13]
Ryan McGee
But the interesting thing you haven't mentioned, you did mention pe, but the company
- [42:18]
Michael C. Wright
that does the enhanced games went public on the stock exchange about two weeks ago. So to me, it sounds like a pump and dump.
- [42:26]
Ryan McGee
This is all just very suspicious.
- [42:29]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah, I appreciate the call. Yeah, I don't, you know, I don't know what the idea is going forward or if this happens, what happens beyond here. These individuals are using something that's harmful, clearly. Right? Andre, here's my point. I don't know that you need the enhanced games for these guys to do this. They were already doing it. So, like, these individuals who've already decided to take these steps with or without the enhanced games, they were gonna have to deal with the consequences of that. And if people embrace this, it wouldn't surprise me if whoever is running this thing could say, why not try this in other ventures? Why not try this and see if we can get a bunch of basketball players who might be interested, a bunch of football players. I don't think that's crazy considering that they've already done something that a lot of people think is crazy.
- [43:16]
Andre Snellings
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of nuance to this. Right? You know, because we're just calling it PEDs. But what's. What is counts as a PED, right? Because, you know, there's steroids, there's HGH, there's, you know, there are all types of things that are currently considered illegal. But I know, you know, when I was coming along, I had never heard of creatine, you know, in the 90s. And, you know, creatine was something that a lot of athletes were starting to use then because of the benefits that it had for being able to work out and recover. And it's not considered a performance enhancing drug, even though it enhances performance, because it doesn't have those longer term medical consequences or at least not enough to cross that threshold. And so, you know what, the possibility of something like an hgh, there's a lot of research being done in it. What if it eventually gets to the point where the medicine is like, you know what? We feel like we have enough of a handle on this that it's no longer considered an illegal ped. That's maybe a way I could imagine some of these types of substances getting more openly available in sports leagues.
- [44:27]
Myron Metcalf
And that's my point. He's Andre Snells. I think that was a great point. I remember when people started taking creatine and it was viewed as something that you shouldn't do. And now most athletes, I would say probably at the highest levels are using it. So they released the statistics on what people are doing in the enhanced games, what they're using. The bulk of the individuals in terms of what PD they're using is epo. What is epo? It's what Lance Armstrong.
- [44:55]
Ryan McGee
Yep.
- [44:55]
Myron Metcalf
Was taking strong drugs in the Tour de France. It is a PD that essentially helps you in terms of your stamina and endurance, as I understand it. So that that apparently is the drug of choice, the PD of choice with these athletes. And that steroids was actually there was the lowest number of people taking steroids. So again, I think you said something that's important. We don't know where technology is going to go and what the world will look like in 20, 30 years and things that we say, I can't believe anyone was ever allowed to use this. Today there may be technology that says, well actually you can use some of this and maybe people decide to co sign that. Ace from Indiana, what say you? We got about 30 seconds. Third Ace now you got 10 seconds. 9, 8, 7. Oh, you missed the countdown. Ace called us from a BlackBerry. You know you got to call us, got to put more minutes on your phone. You remember you had to do that, Andre? Oh yeah, we had to put minutes on your phone. These kids don't know anything about that. Coming up next, we will speak to someone who will be on the call for Thunder spurs tonight. This is Matt Myron on ESPN Radio and of course the one and only espn. Thanks for listening to Matt and Myron the podcast. You can listen to the show live every Sunday morning at 10am Eastern on ESPN radio, the ESPN app and on SiriusXM channel 80. Matt and Myron, the podcast.
- [46:50]
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