Hour 2: Lose the Training Wheels

Summary

Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron: Episode Summary – "Lose the Training Wheels"

Release Date: August 10, 2025
Hosts: Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf
Guest: Kevin Seifert, ESPN Vikings Reporter

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron, the hosts delve into critical topics surrounding the NFL preseason, quarterback performances, team strategies, and notable events in the sports world. Skipping the advertisements and non-content segments, the discussion is rich with insights and expert opinions, particularly focusing on the Minnesota Vikings' quarterback situation and broader NFL quarterback stability as the regular season approaches.

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1. Minnesota Vikings and J.J. McCarthy’s Preseason Debut

Guest Introduction:
The episode kicks off with Gabe Neitzel introducing Kevin Seifert, ESPN's Vikings reporter, to discuss J.J. McCarthy's much-anticipated preseason debut.

Key Points:

• McCarthy’s Performance:
  Kevin Seifert notes that J.J. McCarthy had limited but telling action on the field, completing 13 plays with moments of promise mixed with inaccuracy. For instance, McCarthy threw an impressive 18-yard pass to Jordan Addison (01:21).

  Kevin Seifert (01:21): "...he had a nice third down or nice 18-yard pass to Jordan Addison across the middle."

• Coaching Strategy:
  The decision not to let McCarthy play more extensively was attributed to coach Kevin O'Connell's emphasis on responsibility and protecting the young quarterback, especially given the current state of the offensive line.

  Kevin Seifert (02:29): "They just were not prepared to play especially the offensive line that much."

• Future Practices:
  Seifert anticipates that McCarthy will continue to receive development time during joint practices with the Patriots, highlighting the structured approach to his growth.

  Kevin Seifert (03:15): "They believe he'll get a lot of good work in those two days as well."

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2. Evaluating the Vikings' Quarterback Situation

Confidence in McCarthy:
Matt Jones inquires about Kevin O'Connell's confidence in McCarthy, to which Seifert responds that while O'Connell believes in McCarthy's long-term potential, immediate performance consistency is still under evaluation.

Kevin Seifert (04:43): "He's pretty convinced in the long term that JJ is going to be a performer that can play winning football on his offense."

Balancing Patience with Performance:
The discussion shifts to how the Vikings must balance their successful roster with the need to develop a young quarterback. Emphasis is placed on a strengthened running game as a strategic move to support McCarthy's development.

Kevin Seifert (06:25): "...they have made a huge commitment to not only pass protect but better than they did last year, but really to run the ball more."

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3. Broader NFL Quarterback Stability Concerns

Unstable Quarterback Situations:
Towards the latter part of the episode, Matt and Myron expand the discussion to the NFL at large, identifying several teams with precarious quarterback positions heading into the season.

• Jacksonville Jaguars – Trevor Lawrence:
  Trevor Lawrence’s performance remains under scrutiny as he adapts to Liam Coen’s coaching. Concerns about Coen’s commitment to developing Lawrence as the franchise quarterback are highlighted.

  Matt Jones (25:34): "I almost feel like to me, Trevor Lawrence is auditioning to be Liam Cohen's franchise quarterback."

• Chicago Bears – Caleb Williams:
  The Bears' handling of Caleb Williams is criticized for not giving him sufficient preseason playtime to adapt to the new offensive system under coach Ben Johnson.

  Matt Jones (28:39): "Today would have been a great opportunity to do that because I think the Bears are going into this season..."

• Carolina Panthers – Bryce Young:
  Bryce Young’s performance last season and potential for a turnaround are discussed, questioning the Panthers’ plans depending on his development.

  Matt Jones (34:21): "...Bryce Young was the unanimous number one pick... He has something to prove to himself."

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4. Notable Events and Controversies

NFL's Stance on Smelling Salts:
James Steele introduces a controversial NFL memo regarding the administration of smelling salts to players. The clarification that players can bring their own, but teams cannot supply them, sparks debate.

Matt Jones (13:13): "Isn't it worse if you're gonna let players bring their own smelling salts?... feels problematic."

Mariano Rivera’s Injury During Old Timers Day:
A nostalgic yet shocking moment unfolds as Hall of Fame closer Mariano Rivera tears his Achilles tendon while participating in an Old Timers Day game, raising concerns about the safety and appropriateness of such events.

Matt Jones (15:59): "If Mariano Rivera crumpling with a torn Achilles doesn't end this thing, like, what are we doing?"

Jen Powell Makes MLB History:
Jen Powell becomes the first woman to umpire a Major League Baseball regular-season game, a milestone celebrated by the hosts despite anticipated social media backlash.

Matt Jones (17:31): "I celebrate it, man. It's a great thing."

John Cena’s Heel Turn and Return:
The hosts discuss John Cena’s recent role reversal in WWE, analyzing fan reactions and the implications for his legacy.

Matt Jones (20:23): "There's a lot of damage done and I think John Cena has a lot to prove in this sort of farewell tour for me personally."

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5. Matthew Stafford’s Injury and Rams’ Prospects

Stafford’s Back Injury:
Matthew Stafford’s aggravated disc and the Rams’ mixed messaging regarding his recovery are scrutinized. The uncertainty surrounding his availability for the season opener raises concerns about the Rams’ offensive stability.

Matt Jones (38:45): "When you talk about it being a back injury, that's certainly problematic."

Sean McVay’s Public Statements:
Rams coach Sean McVay’s positive reports on Stafford’s progress contrast with the visible absence of the quarterback from practice, leading to skepticism about the Rams’ transparency.

Kevin Seifert (39:53): "He threw the ball really well... looking forward to progressing him back into practice on Monday."

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6. Dallas Cowboys’ Backup Quarterback Situation

Joe Milton’s Injury:
The episode touches on the Dallas Cowboys' backup quarterback Joe Milton sustaining an elbow injury during the preseason, emphasizing the importance of having reliable backups given Dak Prescott's injury history.

Matt Jones (42:33): "Cooper Rush was a great insurance policy... Joe Milton has to be healthy."

CD Lamb’s Sideline Penalty:
A humorous yet concerning incident involving CD Lamb receiving a penalty for being too close to the field while assisting is discussed, highlighting officiating nuances.

Matt Jones (44:19): "I mean, he could have gotten hurt. The referee could have gotten hurt."

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Conclusion and Upcoming Topics

The episode wraps up with teasers for upcoming segments, including discussions on the most unstable quarterback situations in the NFL, and promotes future content like a 30 for 30 podcast episode titled "Chasing Basketball Heaven."

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Notable Quotes

• Kevin Seifert on McCarthy's Inaccuracy:
  “He had a pass over the middle that went high to receiver named Lucky Jackson... a little bit inaccurate.”
  [02:17]

• Matt Jones on Smelling Salts Ban:
  “If you're gonna ban it, you gotta ban it. Also is concerned that people need smelling salts in game that to that point.”
  [13:13]

• Matt Jones on Caleb Williams:
  “If you try to hide him from the world, you can't do that. Either he can play or he can't.”
  [31:12]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron provides an in-depth analysis of quarterback dynamics within the NFL, shedding light on pivotal moments that could shape the upcoming season. With expert insights from Kevin Seifert and engaging discussions from the hosts, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and prospects facing key teams and players.

For those keen on the evolving landscape of football and other sports, this episode offers valuable perspectives and highlights the intricate balance between talent development and team strategy.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Matt Jones]

This is Matt and Myron, the podcast.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Couple more NFL preseason games still happening today, but the majority of them happening last night. Big debut as well. We dive into that right now. Sunday morning ESPN Radio, ESPN app SiriusXM channel 80. I'm Gabe Neitzel in for Matt Jones, hanging out with Myron Metcalf. And Sunday morning is presented by Progressive Insurance. Get a business quote online in as little as seven minutes. Visit Progressive Commercial JJ McCarthy, his much anticipated debut after suffering a tough injury before he got an opportunity to play in a preseason game a year ago for the Vikings, was able to get on the field yesterday. And we welcome in Kevin Seifert, ESPN Vikings reporter, to help us break it down. Kevin, good morning. Thank you for jumping on with us. What did you see from J.J. mcCarthy in last night's debut for the young QB?

[Kevin Seifert]

Well, he had exactly one possession that he was on the field for, but they did run 13 plays. And what we saw was a lot of what we've seen during training camp. We saw some promising moments. You know, he had a nice third down or nice 18 yard pass to Jordan Addison across the middle. He converted a fourth down by running down the sidelines, which was pretty notable because he had injured his knee last year during a scramble. So it was interesting to see him get right back on that horse there last night. And then there were some throws that were just kind of a little inaccurate. He had a pass over the middle that went high to receiver named Lucky Jackson, another one that Jordan Mason, the running back wasn't able to stretch out and catch. And so that's what we've seen from him all summer in training camp, which is to be expected from a young quarterback who's still in a developmental process. And they'll move on from here.

[Matt Jones]

Kevin, for all the reasons you just mentioned, it seems like JJ would be a great candidate to play an entire half of his first preseason game, at least a quarter. Why didn't we see more of him?

[Kevin Seifert]

What Kevin o', Connell, the Vikings coach, said was that in order to play your starting quarterback for that stretch of time, you really to be responsible. You have to play most of your starting offensive line at least, and other skill position players as well, to make sure that he's A protected and B given a chance to perform in the way you would want him to. And they just were not prepared to play especially the offensive line that much. They have a lot of veterans and they have a couple guys who are either coming off injury or just kind of a little bit on the older side. And so it was a little bit of a compromise. They'll have two days of joint practices this week with the Patriots here in Minnesota, and so I think they believe he'll get a lot of good work in those two days as well.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Kevin Seifert, ESPN Vikings Reporter Joining us here on Sunday morning ESPN Radio in the ESPN app, I'm Gabe Neitzel along with Myron Metcalf. Given the way that Kevin o' Connell in the coaching tree that he comes from the McVay Shanahan, all those guys seemingly don't like playing a lot of those especially especially veteran starters throughout the throughout the course of preseason games. So is the majority of the good work that J.J. mcCarthy is going to get, are they going to be in those joint practices?

[Kevin Seifert]

I think so. I think it's very unlikely, if not 100% certain, that he won't be in their second preseason game against the Patriots next weekend, along with most of the other starters. And then you get into whether you want to really play him and the rest of the starters in the third preseason game, which Kevin o' Connell traditionally has protected all of his key players and not just starters, but a lot of key backups as well. And so that would be a major departure for the vikings under Kevin O' Connell for JJ McCarthy to play in that third game. So it might be that he ends up playing 13 snaps in the preseason and that's it.

[Matt Jones]

Kevin I've listened to Kevin o' Connell talk about his quarterbacks over the last three plus years and you can always sense when he has a certain confidence level in his guys. I don't hear that at this point in JJ McCarthy. Am I misreading that or there's still some things that Kevin o' Connell might not be sure about when it comes to J.J. mcCarthy.

[Kevin Seifert]

I think he's pretty convinced in the long term that JJ is going to be a performer that can play winning football on his offense. It's just a matter of how quickly they get him there and in the meantime, what do they do? So I've been saying around town that like as much pressure is on JJ McCarthy I think at least as much if not more is on Kevin o' Connell to make sure that ultimately what they ask him to do when the regular season begins is not too far away from what he's capable of giving them. You got to remember he's a second year quarterback, but he was the first quarterback in the modern draft era to be drafted in the first round and misses entirely rookie season because of injury. So he didn't get to even practice one time during the regular season last year. Missed a ton of scout team work if he wasn't going to be on the field. And we really don't have a precedent for what it's like for a quarterback in J.J. mcCarthy's shoes to jump into a starting job right now. And so there's a, there's, I don't know how much certainty they have in the very short term about what he's going to be able to do. And that's what they're trying to figure out here in training camp. And then the pressure will be on Kevin o' Connell to match his scheme and game plans to that level.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Kevin Seifert, ESPN Vikings reporter, joining us on Sunday morning on ESPN Radio. And to that, Kevin, so how does Kevin o' Connell and really the veterans on this team kind of balance the patience that they need with JJ McCarthy while also knowing, hey, we have a pretty good roster that won 14 games a year ago, was within a game of winning the division from the Detroit Lions. How do you balance that? Hey, we're good, we can win now, but also, well, we have to have patience with a young quarterback.

[Kevin Seifert]

I think a lot of it's going to be following through on what they say is going to be a much bigger commitment to the running game. You know, they not only re signed Aaron Jones in the off season, but they traded for Jordan Mason from the 49ers. Mason started yesterday's game and looked pretty decent running the ball and signed three new offensive linemen or acquired three new offensive linemen in the middle of their line. And so they've made a huge commitment to not only pass protect but better than they did last year, but really to run the ball more. And that's exactly what you would. It doesn't take a football savant to figure out that if you have a young quarterback who's you're not certain of when he's going to get to that certain point in his development that he can run your full passing offense, that you're going to rely more on the run. And so I think that's where their patience will come is that they believe they'll have a much better running game. And the other thing is he's really endeared himself on a personal level to, to a lot of these veteran players and the coaches, and they really like him. And it sounds kind of silly and simple, but I think that gets you the, at least the benefit of the doubt. If they see you working hard, if they see you being humble, if they see you asking questions and hear you asking questions and following their lead. And that's those are all the things that these guys have cited in their admiration for him. And so at the very least, he'll have the benefit of the doubt here for a long time from these teammates that he has.

[Matt Jones]

Kevin we're spending so much time talking about JJ McCarthy and whether or not he develops in his first year in the NFL, but there are more questions, I think, with the wide receiver room from Rondell Moore's, what feels like a major injury after last night. Yeah, obviously Jordan Addison suspended for three games for his situation. And then we got Justin Jefferson's hamstring. What is happening with the wide receiver room with the Minnesota Vikings, and how could all of that impact J.J. mcCarthy's development?

[Kevin Seifert]

Yeah, I think that's a very good point. You know, that Rondell Moore was, was, I think, in line probably be the number four receiver, but that might have ended up being number three when Jordan Addison serves his suspension. And so they Justin, we started the top. Justin Jefferson made it through one and a half practices of camp before his hamstrings started bothering him, and they basically shut him down. And they, they said that they are not planning to. It's not like they're going to mothball him for the entire training camp, but they're already getting pretty close to doing that. We'll see if he's on the field at all this week and if he participates in those Patriots practices here in Minnesota. But Jalen Naylor, who was their number three receiver last year, is going to have to play a very prominent role. And it was interesting to see he practiced the other day with a red jersey, no contact jersey on, not necessarily because he has an injury, but because they need to preserve his health, because he's the one guy that they feel confident from a health standpoint and a performance standpoint of putting out on the field in Week 1 against the Bears. And so with the Rondale Moore injury, we'll see where that goes. They have a guy named Lucky Jackson, who I mentioned earlier, that was an XFL player and has been around here for a few years on the practice squad and knows the system very well and they like him. But I would say that given the more injury and given where Justin Jefferson is, I think they are at least the candidates to be looking to see who's on the waiver wire and who might be available for a player swap or a draft pick swap at some point later this summer.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Kevin, appreciate the time, man. Look forward to hearing more from you as Vikings training camp progresses.

[Kevin Seifert]

Okay, sounds good. Thanks guys.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Kevin Seifert, vikings reporter for ESPN.com joining us here on Sunday morning. Coming up next, we've got some Sunday headlines to dive into. Maybe there's going to be some that are going to be a surprise to our guy Myron because, well, he's been unplugged the last couple of weeks as he was on vacation. That's coming up next Sunday morning on ESPN Radio.

[Matt Jones]

Matt and Myron the Podcast.

[Gabe Neitzel]

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[Matt Jones]

The Sunday headlines.

[Gabe Neitzel]

And we've got James Steele to walk us through some of these Sunday headlines. What's going on, James?

[James Steele]

All right. Hey, guys, what's going on? Let's start here. On Tuesday, the NFL sent a Memo to its 32 teams informing them they would no longer be allowed to administer players ammonia in any form during the 2025 season, including what are most commonly known as smelling salts. After a lot of backlash from players, the NFL PA clarified in its own memo that the league hasn't banned the use of smelling salts. It's just banned teams from being the suppliers. Myron, what do you think about this news from the NFL here?

[Matt Jones]

Isn't it worse if you're gonna let players bring their own smelling salts? I think that's the worst idea they've had in a long time. I mean, if you're gonna ban it, you gotta ban it. Also is concerned that people need smelling salts in game that to that point. But I don't know, Gabe, I don't know that players should be allowed to bring in their own smelling salts. That feels problematic.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Well, it seems the one that kind of brought this to our attention was George Kittle. And he's the one who wants to use them as much as he wants. And I mean, are we going to be seeing pictures when we're watching Sunday Countdown on Sunday mornings once the season starts and they're showing all the players arriving? Is he just coming with a bag of his own smelling salts? He's gonna be walking into the stadium just carrying his own smelling salts? Is that's what this has come to?

[Matt Jones]

And how do we know it's smelling salt? Because there'll be a couple brothers in there. You got to check that bag. You gotta make sure. You gotta make sure it's actually smelling salt. Because that could be the other issue.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Man, this was. This was just the funniest thing to me that the NFL had this memo come out and then they had to clarify, well, no, well, you can use them. We're just not gonna give them to you. Oh, okay, Then why, why are we Banning this in the first place.

[Matt Jones]

Bring your own smelling.

[James Steele]

All right, moving on. Yankees bullpen been having some pretty serious issues this year, especially after they went out and revamped it. They brought in Eric Bednar, and from the Pirates, Devin Williams can't throw a strike to save his life. The hits continue, and not just for the current Yankees bullpen. It's for past Yankees bullpens because yesterday, hall of Fame closer Mariano Rivera tore his Achilles tendon during Old Timers Day game at Yankee Stadium and he'll have to undergo surgery. According to a report from the Athletic, the legendary reliever crumpled to the ground while manning center field during the contest of Yankees alumni. It came just after Rivera hit list in three major league of bats.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Rift.

[James Steele]

A single off Andy Pettit. Guys, what are your thoughts on Old Timers Day?

[Gabe Neitzel]

Is this well attended? Is this something that's super popular with Yankee fans? I can only imagine that it is because that's the only reason you're doing it. But also, can we. Can we not? I mean, if Mariana Rivera crumpling with a torn Achilles doesn't end this thing, like, what are we doing? We're just. We're just trotting out Mariano Rivera to play center field so he can tear his Achilles. That's. It's devastating when you're an actual player, and that happens when you've been out of the game for as long as Mo has and now you're going to have to go through Achilles recovery. That sounds terrible. If you can tear your Achilles in the Alumni game, the Alumni game should not exist.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's the first time since 2019 that they've done it. Like, whatever happened to bringing back your old timers? And they just wave to the crowd, like, isn't that what they're supposed to do? You bring them out in the seventh inning stretch, they say, hey, introducing the 2000 World Series team. You wave, people cheer, and then they go back to their seats in the suite. I don't know why they have to actually try to play. Especially all those guys are in their 50s. Man, I got. I just. It's just a bad look. I feel bad for Mariano. They could use him certainly right now.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Oh, that cutter can.

[Matt Jones]

I'm sure they were thinking about it. A pre injury. They were thinking about it, but it's just, man, that's a tough. That's a tough break. But just let them wave to the crowd like they do at every other event in sports.

[James Steele]

All right, let's keep it with baseball. Jen Powell Made history on Saturday in Atlanta when she became the first woman to umpire a Major League baseball regular season game. Powell worked at first base in Game 1 on the Braves doubleheader against the Marlins at Truest park. And she'll be behind the plate today in today's game between the Braves and Marlins. What do you guys think about Jen Powell making history?

[Matt Jones]

Well, I've been off Twitter for the last two weeks, but I assume Twitter's gonna be okay with this, right? Like, everyone's gonna be normal about this fall.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Can't imagine people are gonna be normal on Twitter. That's the expectation. These two weeks have just been for you off of Twitter. Now your expectations that people are gonna be normal? Come on, man.

[Matt Jones]

I've been in Disney World. Like, I assume everybody' came back to this world. I'm like, oh, they're not. I hope that moments like this are just simply celebrated right at the end of the day, you know, Like, I can't imagine what Jen had to do in a male dominated sport full of all the things that you face as a woman in sports to get to this point. And I would hope that this moment would just be something that people can just say, hey, this is great, right? What an historic moment. Unfortunately, because of social media, Gabe, I know that won't be the case. I know that the tone of this for some will be what we all know it's going to be with that toxic element of sports fans. But I celebrate it, man. It's a great thing.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Well, especially when it comes to something like officiating. And we've seen women now in the NFL and we've seen them in the NBA officiating. Like, you have to do so much to earn your way and fight your way up the ranks. Like this is. She's obviously had to grind incredibly hard to be able to get here. I can't wait. I think it's going to be awesome. Especially with her getting her opportunity today behind the plate. Good for her. I'm excited for her that she has reached and is the first one to reach the levels that she is trying to get to.

[James Steele]

Martin, you missed so much since you've been gone. Like, it seems like you've been gone for months, but it's only been.

[Matt Jones]

I deleted social media the last two weeks. I legitimately, like, I don't know, like, is the world still on fire? I don't know. I haven't checked any of the stores. I don't know.

[James Steele]

You've been gone.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[James Steele]

But missed a couple things that I would have Liked to have gotten your your opinion on over the past couple weeks. Like John Cena becoming a good guy again the night like two nights before his SummerSlam match with Cody Rhodes which he ended up losing. He lost the world title. And then this past Friday also put.

[Gabe Neitzel]

On that match by the way was probably his best match in over a decade.

[James Steele]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Jones]

Yes.

[James Steele]

And then this past Friday doubled down on being a good guy. Myron, what are your thoughts on John Cena back to being the real John Cena?

[Matt Jones]

There's a lot of people who are celebrating that I have heard about that. There's a lot of people who are excited about it and they feel like the heel turn was sort of a short lived thing and they've forgiven him and they're right back to John Cena as the guy. I'm not there emotionally yet, you know, like maybe I'll get there but for me there was a lot of damage done and I think John Cena has a lot to prove in this sort of farewell tour for me personally. Right. This is a good start. But I'm certainly not there fully ready to say he is 100% a good guy. Because you know what, I saw you as a bad guy. You agreed to be a bad guy. So I don't know how I just forget that.

[Gabe Neitzel]

I don't know if he has any Midwest stops coming up on his tour, Myron. But if he does and you go, I hope you cheer him. I mean he's John Cena. He's back to being, he's back to being the real John Cena. The heel turn didn't work out. Probably threw some things that were beyond his control like people showing up like the Rock, you know, who supposedly orchestrated the whole thing in storyline. Didn't help that apparently Travis Scott who is also a part of the heel turn apparently didn't want to put in the work to potentially have a match. Yeah, the whole thing blew up. So yeah, let him be a good guy for the last couple of, couple of months here of his, of his retirement tour for WWE so everybody can cheer him and feel good when his, when his song is blaring on the speakers and arenas throughout the country.

[James Steele]

I think.

[Matt Jones]

Here's the thing about retirement tours though real quick in sport, in wrestling no one ever has one. Like I mean like we always do this retirement thing in wrestling. It was like, oh, this is the last we'll ever see of Jack. Yeah, we'll see him a year from like wrestlers cannot stay away from the wrestling ring. That's the One thing we know about that sport disagrees.

[James Steele]

No, he's, he's, he's done well.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Yeah. And so was hbk.

[Matt Jones]

These guys can't stay away.

[James Steele]

No, I mean, yeah, I guess, I guess if they can't stand cold was.

[Matt Jones]

Where else does he get that kind of applause? Where else does he get that adrenaline rush that comes from walking out?

[James Steele]

I'm sure he'll be back. I don't think he's going to wrestle again though.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Like, the only one who's actually stayed true to their retirement again, it's still early in his retirement is Dave Bautista. Like he's the only one because you got Ric Flair. Ric Flair, his heart literally stopped during his last match. It was a disaster. And he still wants to try to have. And that was labeled his last match ever. And he still wants to try to have another retirement match. Like, they just can't help themselves.

[Matt Jones]

They don't know how to quit. They don't know how to quit. We'll, we'll see what happens. But I'm not there yet. I'll just say that there's a lot of work that has to be done.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Well, again there's, there's a few months left here in the retirement tour, so hopefully John Cena will win back over your cold, cold heart and you can, you know, finally root for him as a good guy. What are the most unstable quarterback situations in the NFL heading into the season? We discuss. Take a look at that next Sunday morning on ESPN Radio.

[Matt Jones]

Matt and Myron. The podcast.

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[Gabe Neitzel]

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Pleasing fist pumping all out brawl of a film.

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Rated R. Only in theaters Friday.

[Gabe Neitzel]

This is Sunday morning on ESPN Radio. Sunday morning presented by Progressive Insurance. Also check us out on the ESPN app, SiriusXM Channel 80. And ask your smart speaker to play ESPN Radio. I'm Gabe Knights and for Matt Jones today, hanging out with Myron Metcalf. And in the NFL, having stable quarterback play is typically the easiest route. Myron, to get to the top of your division, get to the top of your conference, make a run at the super bowl. And there are a lot of teams that are trying to get there. Fortunately for them, they're. They're. It's a work in progress. What do you think are some of the most unstable quarterback situations that we have in the NFL? Head into 20, 25, guys that have questions that need to be answered.

[Matt Jones]

To me, it starts in Jacksonville, right? Like Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence has been a high ceiling dude since college, right. Obviously wins the national championship and everybody loves him, number one pick. But we have seen none of that potential in the NFL. And now you have a guy in Liam Cohen who's coming into a situation where Liam Cohen is a quarterback guru. I mean, Baker Mayfield should be paying him a commission for what he did to restore his career. But Gabe, Trevor Lawrence isn't Liam Cohen's guy. So I don't think he feels any sense of loyalty to Trevor Lawrence. So I almost feel like to me, Trevor Lawrence is auditioning to be Liam Cohen's franchise quarterback. And there are no guarantees he's going to be successful.

[Gabe Neitzel]

No. And look, would Liam Cohen prefer if Trevor Lawrence works out? Yeah, that's the easiest route for them to becoming a good team, being competitive in that division, getting back to the postseason, being a team that can be, you know, looked at as, oh yeah, Trevor Lawrence, he's the guy. It took him a little bit of time, but eventually lived up to the incredibly high potential that he had. But that is as unstable position that exists in the NFL. And Liam Cohen did talk about after the game yesterday how Trevor Lawrence performed. Yeah, I think aside from the first play, in terms, I think he just was at the line with a can and kind of just took a little long and it got us a little jumpy. But I thought aside from that, well, you look at getting through some progressions, you got back to strange on a progression for a first down. That was really nice to see. I thought we protected Trevor pretty well. You know, I thought he was accurate with the ball. You know, safety made a good drive on BT on that one in breaker, but the ball was kind of where it needed to be. Maybe a little bit more firm for him, but I thought he operated at a good click. Seems to be high praise there from the coach.

[Matt Jones]

Well, but Liam Cohen's passive aggressive approach to these press conferences has to be studied. Like what. What is this, man? He's like, no, no, everything was great. I mean, you know, held on to it too long and looked terrible at some stretches, but other than that, he was great. So I think at the end of the day, this is the best thing that could have happened to Trevor Lawrence because of Lian Cohen's history of really developing quarterbacks at all levels, college and the NFL. But I don't think he sold on them. And if you're Liam Cohen, we get to week six, seven and the Trevor Lawrence experience isn't working out. He's going to be thinking about the 2026 draft and who he needs to bring in to mold and develop if it's not Trevor Lawrence.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Meanwhile, in Chicago, Caleb Williams is. It's another interesting situation because the Bears failed Caleb Williams last year. To me, there's no other way to put it. When you had a coach on the hot seat, decided to keep him around and it played out about as predictably as one can guess. You fire your offensive coordinator, then the head coach gets fired. You have three different play callers throughout the course of the season. A lot of different guys. In Caleb Williams ear. There was a you a piece about how you know the expert excerpt from the book that came out where Caleb Williams just watching film by himself, not getting the direction he needed there. So it wasn't a good year for Caleb Williams. So you go out and get Ben Johnson, the guy that every Bears fan wanted. Everybody in Chicago wanted Ben Johnson to be the guy to help resurrect this Bears offense, get Caleb Williams on track. However, he's not playing today, Myron, he's not. He is a second year quarterback. The Bears are playing their first preseason game and you would think the best way to get better in this new offensive system is to play a game against other teams. Even if it's just the vanilla version of the Ben Johnson offense. But he is not even playing today. Make that.

[Matt Jones]

It's weird, man. It's weird, Gabe. I mean, he's the ideal candidate, right, to play in a game with a new coaching staff, a new scheme. Also, like, he hasn't proven anything at this point. Caleb Williams, to me, it's not even just the reps, Gabe, right. For a young player in the league, I think you have to do as much as you can to help him put the pass behind him. Like last year was disastrous for a lot of reasons, no protection. But he also made a bunch of mistakes too. How do you give Caleb Williams a fresh start unless you give him the reps? Today would have been a great opportunity to do that because I think the Bears are going into this season. And again, much like Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence, Ben Johnson did not draft Caleb Williams. He was not in the draft room. Caleb Williams has to prove that he can be the guy for Ben Johnson or I think the bears go into 2026. Also thinking about the draft and whether or not they have to go after a quarterback. You can't have a guy three years in a row struggle in this NFL.

[Gabe Neitzel]

This morning on Best Week Ever, Peter Burns made the same point. This makes no sense with Caleb not playing today. I'm always puzzled about the teams that don't use this as somewhat of a dress rehearsal.

[Matt Jones]

Okay.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Unless there is, I get it, the Matt Stafford, hey, you're banged up. You're trying to make sure you're, you're okay. You're 100%. Let them go. But like Russell Wilson taking some snaps yesterday and then given the keys to Jackson dart.

[Matt Jones]

Awesome.

[Gabe Neitzel]

That was great for the Giants. They feel a little bit better. But I am shocked. I don't want to say outrage because I don't care about them enough to be outraged, but the fact that the Chicago Bears in Caleb Williams, we won't see him today makes zero sense to me. And what's funny to me as well, so Ben Johnson coming over from Detroit and the Lions, when, when, when man Dan Campbell took over, it was, hey, we're going to be physical. We're going to change the culture here. Guys are playing in the preseason. This is how we're going to turn things around. And then Aaron Glenn takes that to the jets as well. The jets played a lot of their guys, including Justin Fields, in their preseason debut against the Packers. And meanwhile in Chicago, it seems like Ben Johnson's going the exact opposite way of not playing his guys in the preseason. Preseason, to me, exists not for Matthew Stafford, not for Patrick Mahomes, who, by the way, did play for the Kansas City Chiefs. It is for young guys like Caleb Williams who's trying to get their feet underneath them, especially in a new and in a new offensive system. His third in as many seasons going back to his years in college.

[Matt Jones]

Take the training wheels off, why don't you? Like, when did he become a sob story? Like, at the end of the day, Caleb Williams was the unanimous number one pick after his junior season when he won the Heisman. He comes back and everyone knows that he's going to be the number one pick. You're talking about two years at sc. People knew that this guy was going to be at the top of the draft he comes in last year, and on paper it looked like he had more than any number one pick at quarterback had ever had before. Find out. The offensive line was terrible, but he also made a lot of mistakes. He was outplayed by his peers. We saw Bo Nicks show signs of growth that Caleb Williams didn't show. We saw Drake may show signs of growth that Caleb Williams didn't show. We saw Michael Pennix Jr. Have flashes that at times Caleb Williams couldn't match. And obviously Jaden Daniels did things that were remarkable for a rookie. Caleb Williams still has something to prove, but I think he has something to prove to himself. And he's not going to grow if you keep the training wheels on him. If you try to hide him from the world, you can't do that. Either he can play Gabe, or he can't. At the end of the day, that's the NFL. And if you're Ben Johnson and this is your first year as a head coach and you're saying, we don't want to see him out there yet, well, then you got a problem. Because to me, I would feel like you were saying you don't think he's ready or that there's some flaw that you don't trust for him to be out there. And that's all bad, no matter what the reason is.

[Gabe Neitzel]

And I think that's fair, Myra. I think that's a fair thing to say and take away from, okay, everybody else is playing. Everybody else who typically has something to prove is going to be playing. Like when we're talking about unstable situations at that quarterback position. Anthony Richardson, Daniel Jones, they both played. Yes, Anthony Richardson got hurt, but he was still out there. Right? Like Justin Fields was out there. There are plenty of guys that are trying to prove something that are going out there to try to the experience. And when you don't put Caleb Williams out there on the field today, I think that opens up for questioning of, okay, why, how does this make sense? And one of the things that you're going to come up with is, oh, you don't think he's ready? How can you not be ready at this point for a preseason game against a vanilla defense against it? That's what these games are for. And if he looks a little rattled, isn't that what these games are for, to try to work some of those kinks out?

[Matt Jones]

100%. And here's the other thing, and you mentioned this, Gabe, Ben Johnson came into this job talking a whole lot of trash. He came into this job talking about to your point, train changing cultures. He talks about being able to face the packers and trying to beat them a couple times a year. He came in arrogant and he can do that because the Detroit offense was incredible and what he did in Detroit was remarkable. Right. You got to give him credit for that. But he came in here as if he'd proven something. So there's more scrutiny on Ben Johnson too. You come in like you're the dude who's already done something before. You've actually done it. Now there's more scrutiny on you. Show us your dude. Show us your Midas touch. If that's exactly what it's supposed to be in training camp. Don't hide him. I'm so tired of talking about Caleb Williams like he's some fourth round pick, some Disney movie story, when the actuality is he was the number one pick and no one denied that. No one debated that at all. He has had the opportunity to prove himself in a lot of ways and he hasn't done it. So let's just talk about him like that instead of making up all these excuses for what he is or he isn't.

[Gabe Neitzel]

I think another former number one pick who also is in an unstable situation and this is an important swing year for him. It's Bryce Young close the season out fantastically. Can he carry that momentum over? Can he actually be the guy or is he the guy we saw for the first season and then the first part of last year, year that got him benched? Who is the real Bryce Young? And the Panthers have to be able to answer the question because his fifth year option, that decision is going to have to be made next off season. Is he the future of that team? Are you picking up that fifth year option or not? Who is the real Bryce Young?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I think that's a big question. Was that a flash? Was it more than that? I tend to think if you've had a couple of years to prove yourself, you've been benched at one point. It's hard to think that you're suddenly going to emerge as this elite quarterback. Right. But. But, you know, here's a chance. Here's a chance to prove something in a very critical year.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Yeah, I think that's going to be really important for Bryce Young. Obviously we talked about Anthony Richardson, Daniel Jones, tua lot to prove in Miami as well. Coming up next, I would say this is an unstable situation with the Los Angeles Rams, but Matthew Stafford had to do what in order to try to help out us back this week. We dive into that Next, it's Sunday morning ESPN Radio in the ESPN app.

[Matt Jones]

Matt and Myron the podcast.

[Gabe Neitzel]

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[Matt Jones]

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[Gabe Neitzel]

Sunday Morning ESPN Radio ESPN APP SiriusXM Channel 80 Sunday Morning presented by Progressive Insurance. I'm Gabe Neitzel along with Myron Metcalf. Triple H say ESPN 888-729-3776. That's the number you need because King of the Mountain is coming your way in about 15 minutes. So call with your hottest sports takes. Sports takes. I feel like I need to emphasize sports takes to see if you can knock off Russ in Indiana's. Fans of Indiana and Nebraska sports are overrated. Take. That was the take so that you can become the new King of the mountain. Triple eight, say ESPN 888-729-3776. We want your hottest sports takes. Taking those calls in about 15 minutes. But meanwhile, in the NFL, there was a headline today that I still don't know if has gotten enough attention and I have talked about it on different shows here on ESPN Radio since I have seen this news, Myron. But when I say the word epidural, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

[Matt Jones]

People in labor. Yeah.

[Gabe Neitzel]

And that is supposed to be again, I'm not a woman, have obviously been not in labor. So I don't know the effects. But from everything I have been taught, it seems like that is the go to painkilling medication when somebody is in labor. And that is what Matthew Stafford did. He had an epidural to try to ease the pain in his back while the Rams are kind of like, oh no, it's not a big deal, don't worry about it. As Stafford's dealing with an aggravated disc. I feel this is a big time story because that Rams team, everybody is high on because they gave the Eagles the best game. They had an opportunity to potentially win the divisional round a year ago, and they go out, they add Devonte Adams. They're thinking this offense is really going to continue to roll with some of the young defensive pieces that they have. But it can all get derailed if Matthew Stafford can't get his back right.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I think you have a problem if you're like, hey, our franchise quarterback needs a doctor to leave the maternity ward where he's giving people shots during childbirth to help them manage the pain. Can you send him over to our facility so he can do that with our quarterback who's not in labor, who has a minor back injury? It's all bizarre. And what's weird to me is it doesn't feel like the Rams are telling us the full story about Matthew stafford, who is 37 years old. So any injury that's kept a 37 year old quarterback out of practice is a problem. When you talk about it being a back injury, that's certainly problematic. There's a reason that they got Jimmy Garoppolo as a backup who may end up playing for a significant portion of time if in fact this Matthew Stafford injury becomes something that lingers. But I'm with you, the floor ceiling thing with the Rams feels as wide as maybe any team in the NFL because we just don't know enough about where Stafford is right now.

[Gabe Neitzel]

You want to talk about how the Rams are talking about this? Well, let's go ahead and hear Sean McVay on the status of Matthew Stafford. It was awesome.

[Kevin Seifert]

He looked good.

[Gabe Neitzel]

He threw the ball really well. There was no limitations in terms of the types of throws, deep, intermediate, short. We were moving the launch point and, you know, he felt really good. And so we're looking forward to progressing him back into practice on Monday. But it was a good step in the right direction.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, he looked great. You know, Dr. Susan Johnson had delivered three babies already this morning at Los Angeles Memorial Hospital. She came over and gave him an epidural and everything was okay. Like, that doesn't feel real to me, Gabe. Right. If. No, I understand. Sean McVeigh is like one of those high energy, positive people, but this is a 37 year old quarterback who hasn't been healthy enough to, to practice. That should be the real conversation.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Right, but, but also what he's trying to sell is, well, if this was like during the regular season in a game, he'd be able to play like he can't practice in, in helmets and shorts and he would be able to go out there and play in a game something and oh, but he's got to go through a workout in order to get cleared so he can practice like this seems to be mixed messaging coming out of the Rams camp as they try to figure out if he's going to be healthy enough to play with Week one.

[Matt Jones]

Well. And I think also again, you got Jimmy Garoppolo, so you have a season vet as a backup, but you invested in this Rams team which the, the defense I think can be very good. You mentioned devonte Adams and some, some of the other pieces they have. Like this is a team where San Francisco is going to be different this year. You have a Seattle team that's going to count on Sam Donald to strike gold twice after what he did last year and then an Arizona team that is always up and down with Kyler Murray. Like you can win the NFC west here, but so much that will depend on Matthew Stafford and his health. And I just think this is a weird conversation that Sean McVeigh is having publicly when clearly to your point, Gabe, we're not seeing him practice and that's the only thing that we can judge. Who cares what anyone says? He's not on the field and he has an injury that feels significant.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Meanwhile, the Dallas Cowboys, and this is just even outside of the Micah Parsons drama that continues to rage on in their camp, their backup quarterback, Joe Milton, he was banged up in the preseason over after the game he said he's, he'll be okay. It's probably just a contusion as he deals with an injury. That's what he told Todd Archer after the the Cowboys preseason game yesterday. Is it important for the Cowboys to have a good backup quarterback given the injury history for Dak? Like I feel Cooper Rush came in and played well last season. He' longer there. So second year man Joe Milton becomes the next man up. Should Dak go down?

[Matt Jones]

I mean, I think Cooper Rush was one of the great insurance policies that any team had. You know, Cooper Rush wasn't a backup. He was a guy who played many games. Because I think Dak Prescott has played one full season since 2021. Two full seasons, I think since 2019. So you're talking about a guy who in terms of starting every game, that has been a challenge for Dak Prescott and Cooper Rush was a great option. Joe Milton has to be healthy. To your point, I mean, that's the first thing. Can he be healthy? Because history suggests that the Cowboys might need him, but that's another team and I think that these two teams are comparable. If you say Dak is healthy, the ceiling, I think, is pretty high for the Cowboys, as it usually is. If he's banged up, it changes everything, not just for the Cowboys, but for the entire division and maybe the nfc. And I see the same thing with the Rams and Matthew Stafford.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Yeah, it's. It is important for Joe Milton. He was an elbow injury. He thinks he's going to be fine, but it's certainly worth keeping an eye on and because the Cowboys are the Cowboys. I don't know if you have this video, but it was. It was one of my favorite things from yesterday. CD Lamb was penalized. He was not playing in the game yesterday, but he still was penalized. For those who did not see it, he was on the sideline and was, you know, kind of being. He was getting excited. You know, he kind of trying to help diagnose the play, trying to point where people are going. And then as the ball is being thrown and he thinks it's going to be a big completion, he starts walking down the sideline with an arm in the air. The problem is he was very close to the field of play and get absolutely trucked by the officials sprinting down the sideline trying to keep up with the play. And then CD of course, got penalized because he was too close to the field. It began being a 15 yard penalty.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, he could have gotten hurt. The referee could have gotten hurt. I mean, this is why you need to get back, coach. At every level. You need a dude whose only job is just to make sure people don't cross that line, you know. But I did think the referees took it a little far. I mean, he didn't run out onto the field.

[Gabe Neitzel]

No.

[Matt Jones]

Like, grab an official, like it was incidental contact.

[Gabe Neitzel]

Yeah. And CD did not see it coming because he was walking down the field where the official like got him from behind. It was just. It was just a fun video to see. All right, it is time. Triple Eight, say ESPN888 3776. King of the Mountain with your hottest sports takes. Coming up next Sunday morning on ESPN Radio.

[Matt Jones]

Matt and Myron, the podcast.

[Gabe Neitzel]

You've seen the headlines, heard the debates. The three point ball has created a monotonous rhythm to the game. Has the three pointer ruined basketball? And how did we get here? Here, the rise of the three point shot can be partially traced to an eccentric Kansas genius named Martin Manley, whose story didn't turn out quite the way he imagined. I decided I wanted to have one of the most organized goodbyes in history. 30 for 30 podcast presents Chasing Basketball Heaven.

[Kevin Seifert]

Available now wherever you get your podcasts.