Hour 2: Sixth Man

Summary

Summary of "Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron" - Episode: Hour 2: Sixth Man (Released June 15, 2025)

In the "Hour 2: Sixth Man" episode of "Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron," broadcast on ESPN Radio, hosts Matt Jones and guest Aaron Goldhammer navigate through a diverse array of sports topics, blending light-hearted conversations with in-depth analyses. From trendy beverages to high-profile player moves, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive overview of current sports happenings.

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1. Swig and the "Dirty Soda" Craze

[00:25 - 03:52]

The episode begins with Matt Jones sharing his recent experience at Swig, a popular soda establishment that has recently expanded to Louisville. Swig is renowned for its innovative and unconventional soda flavors, such as fruit-infused and even bacon-flavored sodas. Matt describes the intricate ordering process that Swig employs, which includes a lengthy wait time and the issuance of promotional items like hats. He humorously remarks, “I hate things that are tick tocky... But the moment you taste a diet Mountain Dew with blueberries and cobbler and everything in it, you're like, all right, I get it” ([02:06]).

Aaron Goldhammer, stepping in for Myron Medcalf, expresses his skepticism about the plethora of flavor options and the absence of a traditional menu, stating, “they just assume everyone knows the menu.” Despite initial reservations, Matt concedes that some of the creative flavors, such as Berry Babe Dirty Soda, are indeed enjoyable: “the Berry Babe Dirty Soda, it's worth it. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's very good” ([02:56]).

The hosts discuss the nationwide expansion of Swig, speculating on its ownership and rapid growth. Matt humorously connects the topic to Kevin Durant’s potential trade, suggesting that Swig’s popularity might influence where Durant decides to play, although this connection remains tenuous and playful.

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2. Kevin Durant’s Potential Trade and Role

[03:52 - 10:01]

The conversation shifts to the imminent possibility of Kevin Durant being traded ahead of the NBA draft. Matt Jones highlights Durant’s reported preferences for Miami, San Antonio, and Houston, questioning which team would best utilize his skills at this stage of his career. Aaron Goldhammer offers a unique perspective, proposing that Durant could excel in a "sixth man" role rather than as a traditional starter. He elaborates, “I'm talking about 20 to 25 minutes a night. I'm talking about Vinnie the Microwave Johnson off the bench for instant offense” ([03:52]).

Aaron suggests that managing Durant’s minutes could optimize his performance and prolong his career, drawing parallels to role players like Vinnie Johnson who provided critical offensive boosts from the bench. He cautions against overburdening Durant with starting duties, referencing his time in Phoenix where excessive expectations may have hindered his effectiveness: “because I think if you're trading for Kevin Durant and expecting him to be the hired gun savior of your team... you're not going to be happy with the results” ([04:56]).

Matt and Aaron deliberate on the strategic fit of Durant within different team dynamics. They conclude that the Houston Rockets could be an ideal destination, given their need for veteran presence and flexible scoring options. Aaron emphasizes that in Houston, Durant’s role could be more specialized and impactful without the immense pressure of being a primary scorer: “I think the Rockets make the most sense for that, because I think that's the team that has the most need for that kind of player” ([08:19]).

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3. Sunday Headlines

Following their initial discussions, Matt and Aaron transition to the "Sunday Headlines" segment, introduced by host James. This segment covers a variety of sports news, providing brief yet insightful commentary on each topic.

a. Caitlin Clark’s Stellar Performance in the WNBA

[15:28 - 16:56]

Caitlin Clark made a significant impact in her return to the court after missing five games due to a left quad injury. She showcased her shooting prowess by knocking down seven three-pointers, including an impressive half-court shot, contributing to the Fever’s victory over the Liberty. Matt praises her performance, stating, “She was the queen yesterday of the WNBA... that shot from half court was crazy” ([15:52]).

Aaron adds his analysis, predicting Clark’s rise in the league: “by the end of this season, I think she's going to be one of the five best players in the league” ([16:27]).

b. Shohei Ohtani’s Home Run Drought Ends

[16:56 - 18:02]

Shohei Ohtani broke his streak of not hitting a home run in ten games by connecting twice in the Dodgers’ 115- victory over the Giants. Matt expresses his amazement at Ohtani’s consistent power hitting: “He doesn't hit a home run, home run in 10 games... what's so amazing about this guy” ([17:14]).

Aaron shifts focus to Ohtani’s pitching, suggesting that the Dodgers might benefit more from his abilities on the mound, especially considering their pitching injuries: “I think the Dodgers need Shohei Ohtani the pitcher more than Shohei Ohtani the hitter” ([17:57]).

c. Russell Westbrook Declines Player Option

[19:26 - 20:07]

Denver Nuggets’ Russell Westbrook has declined his $3.4 million player option for the 2025-26 season, making him a free agent. Matt initially finds the decision perplexing but acknowledges that Westbrook could secure a higher contract elsewhere based on his performance: “he probably can get somebody to give him more than $3.4 million this offseason” ([19:36]).

Aaron comments on the practicality of the move, recognizing Westbrook’s value and potential for a better deal in the market.

d. Aaron Rodgers at Steelers Camp

[21:05 - 22:37]

A humorous and speculative discussion ensues when Aaron Rodgers appears at the Steelers’ training camp wearing a wedding ring. The hosts debate whether Rodgers is actually married or perhaps humorously "married himself." Matt jokes, “I cannot imagine a woman listening to his nonsense constantly and not getting frustrated” ([21:29]).

The conversation highlights the mystery and speculation surrounding Rodgers’ personal life, blending humor with genuine curiosity.

e. College World Series Insights

[25:07 - 33:01]

Matt and Aaron share their enthusiasm for the College World Series, highlighting Murray State’s unexpected participation alongside traditional powerhouses like UCLA, Oregon State, and LSU. Matt marvels at the diversity of teams, noting how the tournament showcases both established and Cinderella stories: “I love seeing the uniform of UCLA against the uniform of Murray State and what that represents” ([27:16]).

Aaron appreciates the authentic and high-stakes environment of college baseball, where even amateur athletes face intense pressure, leading to unpredictable and exciting outcomes. They discuss memorable moments, such as players making critical errors under stress, which add to the charm and unpredictability of the series.

f. Savannah Bananas’ Event in Cincinnati

[34:02 - 36:13]

The hosts discuss the Savannah Bananas’ recent event in Cincinnati, where former Reds pitcher Danny Graves and former Reds player Sean Casey participated. An incident occurred when Sean Casey, aged 50, suffered a severe hamstring injury during his first plate appearance, humorously described as “tearing his hamstring off the bone.” Matt reflects on the spectacle and energetic atmosphere created by the Bananas, despite his initial skepticism: “they have more kids than any sporting event you will go to, so they're doing something right” ([34:49]).

Aaron underscores the phenomenon by acknowledging that firsthand experience is essential to fully grasp their appeal, though he remains amused by the event's unpredictability.

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4. New York Knicks’ Coaching Turmoil

[38:05 - 45:36]

In a detailed analysis, Matt and Aaron tackle the New York Knicks’ ongoing struggle to secure a new head coach following Tom Thibodeau’s departure. They express bewilderment over the Knicks’ inability to attract high-profile coaching candidates despite reaching out to respected figures like Quinn Snyder, Billy Donovan, Jason Kidd, and Emeka Okafor—all of whom have declined the position.

Matt questions the direction and strategy of the Knicks’ front office, pondering whether the constant coaching changes undermine the team’s recent successes: “we just had the best season in 25 years and two weeks later, we still look like one of the most incompetent franchises” ([40:14]).

Aaron criticizes the broader NBA trend of treating coaches as disposable, citing recent firings of successful coaches like Taylor Jenkins and Michael Malone as evidence: “NBA coaches have never been less valuable and more disposable than they are in 2025” ([43:13]). They debate potential candidates, including Mike Brown and Taylor Jenkins, but remain skeptical about whether these hires would genuinely improve the team.

The discussion culminates in concerns about the Knicks’ future stability and the impact of their coaching instability on team performance and fan perception.

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Conclusion

This episode of "Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron" offers a rich tapestry of sports discussions, seamlessly blending light-hearted topics like the "Dirty Soda" trend with serious analyses of player trades and team dynamics. Notable moments include Matt and Aaron's humorous take on Aaron Rodgers' marital status and their insightful breakdown of Kevin Durant’s potential role in a new team. The "Sunday Headlines" segment further enriches the episode with timely sports news, providing listeners with both entertainment and valuable perspectives on current events in the sports world.

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This summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, notable quotes with timestamps, and maintaining a structured flow for ease of understanding.

Transcript

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[Matt Jones]

This is Matt and Myron the podcast. It is Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio presented by progressive insur shirts, Matt Jones. Aaron Goldhammer filling in for Myer Metcalf on this Father's Day weekend. Aaron normally does this time slot on Saturdays, but he agreed to do both, which is very nice of him. Aaron, yesterday, unlike you, I didn't have to work. I went to. Do you all have in, in Cleveland these like soda stores where like it's, I think they're called Soda Swig. And like they have flavored like fruity sodas. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

No, but I am a soda connoisseur.

[Matt Jones]

Well, this is a big thing and it's like a world. It's like, it's like a tick Tocky thing. So it's like, I think it's called Swig. And they like put like fruit and berries and chickens and stuff in the soda. There's all these, all this various, the, the bacon soda.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Like let's get the hell out of here.

[Matt Jones]

I'm telling you though, they put it here in Louisville like three months ago. And cars line up, I mean down the road line up. And I had a friend in town who was like, we have to go to Swig. And it's like a 30 minute process. You have to order, then tell, confirm your order and then they give you like hats and it's just a whole big thing. And then you finally get it. And that was a huge process. But I will say this, Aaron, I'm sure they got one in Cleveland. If they don't, they will when they do go. I hated it. I hate things that are tick tocky. But the moment you taste a diet Mountain Dew with blueberries and cobbler and everything in it, you're like, all right, I get it. I get.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

So how do you pick out? I mean, it seems like this one of these places where there are just too many options.

[Matt Jones]

There are too many options. And the other thing is they don't have a menu. Like, you want to feel old, Go to Swig. They just assume everyone knows the menu.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

What, what's on the. Oh my gosh.

[Matt Jones]

They don't even have a menu. They're just like, look, if you come here, you know what to get. And so you have to, as a grown man say, I'll take a Berry Babe. Which is, which is hard not to feel creepy when you order a Berry Babe.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I'm reading an article right now that's called Dirty Soda. It's like.

[Matt Jones]

It's called Dirty Soda. That's right. Which also when you go and say, I'd like a Berry Babe dirty Soda, I'm like, ugh, that even creeps me out. But then when you have the Berry Babe Dirty Soda, it's worth it. I'm not gonna lie to you. It's very good. So just a little thing.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Well, I'm in Louisville. My wife is from there every. So I'm in Louisville a couple times a year. So I'll be.

[Matt Jones]

I think this is everywhere. I think it's everywhere. I think it's like, I want to say maybe it's like a Mormon owned company and they've expanded everywhere. I don't, I don't know all the details, but trust me, you ought to try it. And I'm not a paid endorser. It's just I stood in line for 30 minutes in my car and got it. Now, none of that has anything to do with Kevin Durant, but it might have. It might have something to do with where he goes and plays. Kevin Durant reports say maybe traded this week before the draft. We shall see. Durant apparently prefers Miami, San Antonio and Houston as his destinations, which are really the only three teams honestly, that would make sense to trade for him at this point in his career. Although Aaron Goldhamer had an interesting point yesterday. He was on his show Hammer and Emmett and you don't think KD is the same kd? As a matter of fact, here's what Aaron said his role should be.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Ideal role for 37 year old Kevin Durant on a team. And I'm not. He'd probably crush me on Twitter for saying this. That's what Kevin Durant does. I think He's a great sixth man option right now. I'm talking about 20 to 25 minutes a night. I'm talking about Vinnie the Microwave Johnson off the bench for instant offense and to heck with starting the game. He could play down the stretch for you in the fourth quarter if you want him to. In there in clutch time. That's the more important thing than being a starter. But I would really be careful about managing the number of minutes that he's going to play. Because I think it's proven the last couple of years in Phoenix, if you try to put a lot on Kevin Durant's shoulders, you're not going to be happy with the results of that.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I mean, that seems like a terrible opinion, but, you know, Aaron Goldhammer is otherwise a very smart person. I don't. Kevin Durant is still Kevin Durant. Are you saying to me that if he ended up on the spurs or the Rockets or the Heat, those three teams, you would still put him as a sixth man?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Not necessarily. But I think if you're trading for Kevin Durant and expecting him to be the hired gun savior of your team, who's going to come in and immediately make you a championship contender? Matt, haven't the Nets and the Suns realized that even a younger version of Kevin Durant, that's not the right role for him at this point in his career, that's not the right situation for him?

[Matt Jones]

Well, let's look at those three situations and you tell me, Let me go through them and you tell me which, if you think they would work, let's start with Miami. He would go, presumably. I, you know, I guess to get him, they probably have to give up Tyler Hero. So if they have, which this week.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Doesn'T seem like a bad idea.

[Matt Jones]

That's true. Hey, Tyler, read a book, all right? I love you, you're a Kentucky guy, but read a book. Maybe don't go on podcast and say insane things, but put that to the side maybe. Actually, you know what, you make a good point. This may not be the week to trade for Tyler Hero, so let's take the Heat off because I think it's either going to be the spurs of the Rockets.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I do, too.

[Matt Jones]

If it's the spurs and they asked for the number two pick and stuff, would you do it.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

If I was San Antonio? I wouldn't.

[Matt Jones]

You wouldn't? Would you do it if you were Phoenix?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah, I'd love that deal if I'm Phoenix.

[Matt Jones]

Okay. So why wouldn't you do it if you were San Antonio?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Because I'm building a team with Castle and Wemby that is all guys who are in their early 20s and I'm going to just throw a 37 year old onto the roster because I feel like immediately I need to go and make the play. This is a good draft. Matt, behind Cooper flag. I would rather draft another guy who fits in the age range of what my team is going to be. As opposed to.

[Matt Jones]

You're getting Dylan Harper. That's what you would get so you would rather have Dylan Harper from Rutgers at 19 than you would rather have Kevin Durant?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

And then I'd have this OKC thing going on in San Antonio where I'd have all my young guys coming of age at the same time. And then you could say, you want to add a veteran presence. Okay, fine. Like, that's for Chris Paul. That's not for a guy making $50 million a year. That's for a guy who's even closer to the end of his career or a guy who's in a different role. I think trading for Kevin Durant for San Antonio, to me makes no sense. Are they going to win the title next year?

[Matt Jones]

Okay, that's what I was going to ask you. I was like, do you think a team with Castle, Fox, Durant and Wimby can contend for a title? Is the answer? No, I.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Not it. Not with Wemby at 21. And.

[Matt Jones]

Okay, what if. Let me just go. What if it was they asked for Fox and some of the other guys, would you do it?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

That I might be more open to, but I would not give up that draft pick for Kevin Durant at. Kevin Durant's gonna get hurt or be. Bring some weird energy into my locker room that I just don't want to be.

[Matt Jones]

Let me go to Houston real quick.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Because Houston's got a team that.

[Matt Jones]

Houston's got a million things, right? So they can. They can trade Jabari. Well, I mean, they're Jalen Green. They could trade Reed Shepherd. They. I mean, they've got a lot of different options. Probably they can come up with a deal that Phoenix would want with your Houston, and you got all these pieces and you were the 2 seed and clearly you needed some veteran presence. Would you want to do it?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I think that's the team that makes the most sense. And I think his role on the Rockets would be the closest to what I'm describing with that quote, unquote. Like, I don't think he'd need to be the team leader. I don't. But I do think the one thing they need on that team is somebody that they can go to down the stretch of a close game that can create a shot for him whenever. And that is Kevin Durant still at 37. They don't need him to score 30. They don't need him to be an MVP candidate, because I think at this age, he's just not that player anymore. So I think the Rockets make the most sense for a variety of reasons, but chief among them is that I think that's the team where his role to me makes the most sense.

[Matt Jones]

I agree with you. And the Rock is just a variety of things they can give. I mean, you can basically look at the Rockets roster and honestly, you can look at it and go outside of sitting in, which of these dudes do you want? Because we got two of everything, but nobody's great at anything, you know. So, okay, do you want. Would you like Jalen Green or would you like Reed Shepherd? You can have either one of them because we'll play the other one. Right. Like, so you can kind of do that. And I think it works with them.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I also, I like the Van Vliet Durant connection. Durant has. Durant has not played with a real point guard for a while in his career. And I think that that also maximizes some of what his strengths are. And I think also a strong coach, not somebody who's going to get fired on a whim like the Nets did with Kenny Atkinson or like the Suns did a couple of times for kd. I think a strong, empowered IME Udoka would also be great for Kevin Durant.

[Matt Jones]

Always been a big fan since his Witchita State days of Fred Van Fleet and his band with a beat. I'm. He's good and I think he. He can add to a team. I'm not sure Houston makes the most sense for him, but if Durant's there, maybe it does. We have some breaking news. ESPN radio breaking news. We gotta, we gotta get something better than that. We need to give like some kind of. Like that just. That doesn't do it for me. We need some like. Or something like that. That's just a little. We need to work on that anyway. The Memphis. This is a court. There we go. Now Peter Jennings is coming onto my TV screen to tell me something bad. Big Shams is reporting that the Memphis Grizzlies are trading Desmond Bane to the Orlando Magic for Kentavious Caldwell Pope, who I believe is played on every team in sports. Cole Anthony. Four unprotected first round picks and one first round pick. Swap four first round picks for Desmond Bain, Aaron. Whoa.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

And kcp. Boy, Orlando's getting desperate here. I, I like Desmond Bane as a player, but they are thinking he can be Robin to Paulo Ben Caro's Batman on a championship level team. You know what this is, Matt? This is every team in the east convincing themselves that they have a window to make it to the finals. After seeing what Indiana has done that they think it's wide open. Yeah. Especially the right button. That you're exactly right in these.

[Matt Jones]

So just look at these picks real quick. Orlando, Cindy, Memphis's pick this year. That's number 16. That'll actually be a good player because this is a deep draft. Phoenix's first round pick next year. Phoenix might stink next year.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

At which point will stink.

[Matt Jones]

That could be a really good pick. The Magics 2028 pick and Magic's 30 pick. That Phoenix 2026 pick could end up being like a top five pick.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I wonder if if there are lottery protections on that pick, we'll have to see. But right now it doesn't look like.

[Matt Jones]

If it's lottery protections, it's going to be in the lottery.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I mean you just need like that's fair. Can I bring up one other thing here? What does this mean for John Morant's future? Matt?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I mean maybe they're tearing it up. I can understand. The west is going to be so good. Like you either need to go big or tank. And I don't think they can go big. So what?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Who would be a good fit for Ja? Would it Would. Is Ja Morant a tradable thing?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I don't know. It's fair Question. That's an interesting topic for another day. We're gonna do some headlines. We now have a better breaking news slogan. I'm gonna try to get some dirty soda from the beat Berry babe. And this is Sunday morning on ESPN Radio. Matt and Myron, the podcast.

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[Matt Jones]

It is Sunday morning here on ESPN radio. He's Aaron Goldhammer. I'm Matthew Harper Jones. It is Father's Day. I hope everyone is having an amazing one. Those of you that have, have kids, I was gonna say those of you that have fathers, that's probably all of you had one at one point, but the rest of us, some people have kids, I don't. But I'm with you because it's wonderful. It is now time for, for Sunday headlines. Extra, extra. Read all about it. The Sunday headlines. Yeah, these are the stories. Maybe a little bit behind the stories that lead these shows. James, what's up first?

[James]

Yeah, let's do Caitlin Clark. She returned to the court after missing five games with a left quad injury. And she knocked down seven three pointers, hit three in a row at one point from basically half court. Like a couple steps in. And the Fever beat the Liberty. Hen of the Liberty, their first loss of the season yesterday to defending champions. What do you guys think about that?

[Matt Jones]

Corey and Aaron Goldhamer. This was the biggest story yesterday. It wasn't all the many news items. It wasn't the NHL. This was the biggest story. She did make a lot of attention. Those shots were unbelievable. She also got mad at her teammates once when she wouldn't throw the ball out there and they beat the Liberty. Big day for Caitlin Clark. It was fun to see her back.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Matt. Everybody went crazy because she didn't score 50 points in her first WNBA game. But look out because the game is slowing down for her every single game she plays. And by the end of this season, I think she's going to be one of the five best players in the league.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I mean, it was, it may have been no Kings Day, but she was the queen yesterday of the wnba and it was, it was so that shot from half court was like crazy. I mean, that Was crazy. She. She's got. She reminds me of when Steph was first getting going how you. He'd take shots and you go, what?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

What?

[Matt Jones]

He's taking that? And then it would go in. Go get him, Caitlyn. And by the way, shout out to Ryan Howard, former UK player, nine threes on Friday night. Get. Don't go. Overlook her as well. What's next?

[James]

All right, let's move to Major League Baseball. Shoehe Ohtani had never gone 10 games without hitting a home run for the Dodgers until this month. And last night, he ended his drought. Hit two home runs against the Giants and the Dodgers 115 victory over San Francisco.

[Matt Jones]

I will admit to you, I think because it's the Dodgers and it's out on the west Coast, I don't follow it minute by minute, but I feel like just looking at feeds and highlights that Shohei hits a home run every 10 to 15 minutes. And so when I heard it had been 10 games since he hit one, I was kind of shocked. But that's what's so amazing about this guy. He doesn't hit a game. A home run, home run in 10 games. And we act like, well, this is crazy.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

He is the lump of all time.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, it's an unbelievable thing. And I. It was. The Dodgers have struggled a little bit. You know, they. They were in a tie for first last night. The Giants had come up and had tied them right. Get it back. And now the Dodgers back in first place.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I also think the Dodgers need Shohei Ohtani the pitcher more than Shohei Ohtani the hitter.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, you think so?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah, because they. I think I saw they have like 16 pitchers or something who are on the injured list. They have enough money to go out and be able to bring in anybody that they want, but they don't have the starting pitching right now. And so I wonder if at some point around the All Star break, Matt, his primary focus is going to shift from being the guy who hits 50 home runs and steals all the bases to the guy who tries to strike everybody out every fifth or sixth day.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I'll tell you this. If you go look at the wild card standings in the National League and American League, like, this is the closest thing. I mean, I know we're still halfway through the year, but there's like six teams within three games for these spots. Nine teams in the National League. I mean, I think baseball, no one's great. And that makes it to where there's a lot of teams that probably go into July, middle of June and July thinking that they have a shot and it's going to actually make it interesting for the trade deadline and more. I think it's going to be exciting. There's only like seven teams that don't have a shot so far this year. So.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah, the Rockies. Are they close to the wild card? How many?

[Matt Jones]

The Rockies would be one of the teams that don't have a chance, but I said a lot on the show. Summer of Ellie De la Cluz he's starting to get hot. It's the summer of Ellie. I'm just saying. Second in the National League and on base, plus slugging. All right, what's next, James?

[James]

Denver Nuggets guard Russell Westbrook is declining his $3.4 million player option for the 2526 season, and it'll make him a free agent on June 30.

[Matt Jones]

Makes sense. I mean, when I saw he was declining it, I was like, that's stupid. And then I realized he was only making $3.4 million. He probably can get somebody to give him more than $3.4 million. He played pretty well a lot of this year. So I understand.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

If you're counting on Russ to deliver for you every night, you're probably going to be disappointed. But I think he proved on that n that was a good role for him. You know, it was funny. He's a former OKC MVP who slid into a nice sixth man role on a team.

[Matt Jones]

Stop. Katie's better than Russ. Katie's better than Russ.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Oh, they each have one mvp and it worked. It worked better than. Here's the experience of rooting for him, Matt, because I never did before this past year. He is going a million miles an hour at all times. Sometimes it's a million miles an hour to the toilet. Sometimes it's a million miles an hour to an NBA championship. Sometimes it's a million miles an hour on defense. Sometimes it's a million miles an hour to the stupidest play you've ever seen. But he is just going with more conviction than any athlete in sports.

[Matt Jones]

Well, you have more knowledge of his toilet responsibilities than I do. So I will just say when it comes to basketball, $3.4 million, he's probably can get more than so I actually think it made sense. I assumed he was making like 10 or 12. So when I saw he was making 3.4, I was like, I get it. He'll get more than that this offseason. What's next?

[James]

Your favorite topic. Aaron Rodgers, of course he showed up at Steelers camp this week.

[Matt Jones]

Vomit.

[James]

The first day he was available for to talk to the media, he was asked about the wedding ring he's been wearing. And take a listen to this.

[Matt Jones]

It's a wedding ring. Congratulations. Thank you. How long ago? It's been a couple months.

[James]

All right, so I have a conspiracy, conspiracy theory about this, but do you actually think that Aaron Rogers buried.

[Matt Jones]

I can tell you I don't care. But if he is married, more power to him. It certainly has not helped in the humility department. I always hear people say, Matt, if you'd get married, some woman would make sure you come down a notch. That's what they say to me in Kentucky. And I that would be nice. Some woman may need to make me come down a notch, Aaron. But I clearly, Aaron Rodgers has not come down a notch. So it wouldn't shock me if he's not married because I can't imagine a woman listening to his nonsense constantly and not getting frustrated.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

My explanation here is that Aaron Rodgers married himself. I mean, he loves himself.

[Matt Jones]

The only person he could connect.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It's the only person he felt he could potentially fall in love with. James, you. You don't think. You said he admitted to wearing a wedding ring, but that's different than admitted admitting to being married, correct?

[James]

Yeah. They asked him, what if it was a wedding ring? He said, yes, it's a wedding ring. And then they said, congratulations and thank you. And then they said, how long? They didn't say, how long have you been married? They said, how long? So I fully expect him to go on the McAfee show here in a couple of weeks and be like, no, I was just answering how long I've.

[Matt Jones]

Been wearing this ring. James over here, not even believing public acts of love and affection. Specifically, Sunday morning has been presented by Progressive Insurance. Save when you bundle motorcycle, RV and boat insurance. Visit progressive.com more next matt and Myron the podcast.

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[Matt Jones]

Wow. I'm telling you, I got to give our producers credit. These songs, they're pulling like, they're not only pulling 90s country, they're pulling like 90s country, B and C tracks. I'm impressed. Well done. It's Sunday morning here on ESPN radio. This your kind of music. You like 90s country, Aaron? Are you more like little Little Wayne?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Can I say that as I've gotten older, I've gotten more and more into country music?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, but it's got to be this level country. Like, current country is just junk.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

But like, I agree, but I the. I dig back into things because I grew up in Colorado where everybody listened to country music except for me because I didn't think it was cool. I was into the alt rock thing in the 90s.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, really? Oh, shocking. You mean you were in. You were in Colorado and into all rock? Are you kidding me? Was that part of the mind expansion that occurs the moment I like how you say everybody's into country music. I would not think that about Colorado. I would think everybody's into fish. That's where. That's what I would think about Colorado.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Have I been to a fish show or two? I will admit that I spent, I think, New Year's 2004, Madison Square Garden, me and fish. But as I've gotten older, my wife is from Kentucky, from Louisville, where, yes, we're close to where you live. And so she is a little bit more into country music. So I've kind of, it's. Some of it is seeped into my playlist.

[Matt Jones]

Colorado is the only state in America where there's both a fish concert and an NRA convention within a mile of each other. Like, that's, that's, that's what. It's a very unique place in. In Colorado. It's. It is the. It is study board here on the ESPN Radio. We talked earlier about the College World Series that it's going on and the first round has taken place. I think Coastal Carolina beat Arizona, Oregon State beat Louisville, UCLA beat Murray State, and LSU beat Arkansas. I have a couple things I wanted to get your. Your thoughts about it. First of all, I love The College World Series, you and I both been separately. Omaha is a setting. You know, this is the only time of the year you would say Omaha is a great place because the other 51 weeks of the year, you would only be there at gunpoint. But in this, this year, it's. Or this week, it's absolutely awesome. And then the story this year with Murray State being there, which is insane as a citizen of Kentucky, that Murray State is in the College World Series with Oregon State, who basically got kicked out of the big conferences, being there with Coastal Carolina, who. I bet most people listen to this, don't even know what conference they're in. And even with, like, Arizona and Louisville, teams that weren't even necessarily at the top of their conferences being there, it really is. And then two powerhouses with LSU and Arkansas, it really is an awesome field that I think kind of represents the best of college sports in some ways.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Aaron, when it comes to the College World Series, is it like the NCAA Tournament to you, where you think it's better when there are a lot of blue bloods at the end? Or do you think that it would be really fun to see one of these Cinderella stories because there aren't name brands necessarily around college baseball anyway. That it would be really cool to see one of these.

[Matt Jones]

The latter. The latter. Because in basketball, in basketball, when you get to the, the Final Four, when a, when a Cinderella makes it, right. When a George Mason or a Loyola gets that far, they tend to get blown out because they're. There's a discrepancy of talent there that can become too much to overcome in a huge moment. In baseball, that's not necessarily the case. I mean, Stony Brook has made the College World Series. Right. Oral Roberts made it. Fresno State made it one year as a 4 seed and won the whole thing. Coastal Carolina has won it. And so I, I admit to you, I can't name one college baseball player. Okay, I'm just going to go. I cannot name to you, off the top of my head, one player. But I love seeing the uniform of UCLA against the uniform of Murray State and what that represents. Louisiana, Kentucky, Big Ten, what, Missouri Valley. Now Wichita or Murray State is in, you know, stadium that holds 20,000, stadium that holds 800. Aaron, I enjoy that and I'm glad. And I think college baseball oddly, can put that together now better than any other sport in college athletics.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah. And I think the softball fits in there too well.

[Matt Jones]

But softball, it's still the best teams, though. Yeah, softball, the. Softball is a great sport, but like it's still Oklahoma, Alabama and Texas every year. Like it's. Yes. Whereas in baseball you can get these wide discrepancies of teams.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

And I think that it still feels like amateur athletics in college sports.

[Matt Jones]

That's true.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

College baseball.

[Matt Jones]

I agree with that.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It doesn't necessarily. And yes, it's on espn. Yes. By the time you get to the end, there are guys on the mound who are probably going to be in the big leagues and all that.

[Matt Jones]

I like that. I like that, though. I like there's a big league guy against Bob from Murray.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I like that and the way baseball works. Sometimes Bob from Murray State, especially if he's holding an aluminum bat, can turn around a 96 mile an hour fastball and hit it over the fence.

[Matt Jones]

And I like that. These are like normal human beings that get nervous and do stupid things. I don't know if you saw the Oregon State, Louisville game. Oregon State end up winning. But at a key moment in the game, if they throw, there's a ground ball and the Oregon State guy gets it at short and he throws it past the first baseman. I don't know if you saw this. The catcher is backing him up. The catcher gets it and as he tries to throw the guy out at second, he drops the ball behind his head and then he can't find the ball. Like he. It is literally like Little League. He's looking around for the ball and the ball standing behind him. And the Louisville guy goes all the way to third. That does. Like watching people who are normal people get put in high stress situations and then all of a sudden like, where's the baseball? I actually really enjoy that, Aaron. I think, not to embarrass the kid, but just because I think it's a lot.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It's real and it's humans. It's human. Yeah. One of the things that stands out to me, remembering my experience at the College World Series, is the atmosphere in that stadium when you have. Because nobody is really going to root those teams on Matt, except for people who love them. Yeah, to the nth degree, no.

[Matt Jones]

Of the 25,000 people in the stadium, half have no rooting interest, probably maybe more.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

But the other half are insane. Like, this is the biggest moment of their sports lives that they got the opportunity to be there. And I think there's something pure about it that.

[Matt Jones]

Did you see the Murray State player talking about that? Did you see that video? I actually. Can we play that? James, can you find the Murray State player talking about how he felt like a celebrity for the first time yesterday? I don't want to steal his thunder, but it's what you're talking about, Aaron.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah. And I. That's the part of it that I think makes it so cool and so fun and that no matter who's in it at the end, somehow doesn't it feel every year like there's some play at the plate that determines.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Who wins the College World Series.

[Matt Jones]

And then they play the sport where during the season everybody hits home runs. They put them in a stadium where nobody can hit home runs anymore because it's too far. So you end up with, like, triples and doubles and guys running everywhere. And it's just. I, I, I do really enjoy it, I freely admit. I do not watch college baseball during the season. I pick it up in the tournament.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Right. To have a spiritual. But that's.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, I mean, I told you, I can't name one player. I'm the most casual. But I do enjoy these weekends where these games happen. And I followed Murray State a lot this year just because they're from Kentucky. And the fact that they went to Ole Miss and won at Ole Miss and then went to Duke and won at Duke, and then they play UCLA and they lose six to four, but it's a close game. I just, I think that's what sports are about to some level. In the end, do I want to see, like, lsu, Arkansas in the finals? Yeah, probably. But I do enjoy watching this, this spectacle.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Do you think? And they could never do it in the big leagues. People would die. Including fans, probably. Aluminum bats. It kind of adds a little.

[Matt Jones]

It adds a little bit. But it's also like, they've brought those down a notch. So they don't, they don't do quite what. Like, they're not as powerful as they were a few years ago, but yes, the fact that it makes it. The fact that a game can go into the eighth inning and it can be nine to three and it's not over is exciting. Eric. Like, that. That does, I think, make it cool.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yeah. And I. And I don't know, maybe just sort of the aesthetic of it changes because the sound of the ball hitting the bat is so different that I can hear that ping. And immediately.

[Matt Jones]

And then as the series goes on.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It must be June. Word. It's the College World Series.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. In the Super Regionals and in the first round, and even in the World Series, the Series goes on. They run out of pitchers, so they're putting, like, me and you in there at the end. So it can be, like, the biggest game and they're like, this guy's only pitched eight innings all year. And I also kind of enjoy that. Do you have that sound, James, of the Murray State guy? No, you don't? Well, that's okay. He probably didn't say it anyway. The other piece of news I wanted to know, the Savannah Bananas, which we've talked about a lot on the show over the last few weeks, I don't really understand their appeal. You know, I'm a party animals guy myself. The team that plays them, but they were here in Cincinnati just down the road this weekend, sold out this Reds ballpark both nights. And, you know, one of the things they do when they go to a place like Cincinnati, they try to get the local people involved, local players. So former Reds pitcher Danny Graves, he pitched, I think, for an inning. And then they brought Sean Casey, former Reds player, to play. Now he is Aaron, 50 years old. Do you remember Sean Casey back in.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

The day, was on my fantasy team for multiple seasons?

[Matt Jones]

50 years old. And Sean Casey's like, all right, here we go. Savannah Bananas, Sean Casey. Get ready, party animals. I'm going to do my thing. And he gets up and he hits. And on his first plate appearance, he tears his hamstring off the bone. And he is going to have to have made, like, major surgery. He tears his hamstring off the bone. Now, I feel bad for Sean Casey. I don't even know what that means exactly, but it sounds like it can't be good. But there is a sense like, they can. You managed Sean Casey. You're 50 years old. You're like, I finally get to get back in there. It's a full stadium, and the next thing you know, you walk out of there with a hamstring torn off the bone. Man.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It is perfect. Case in point that A, Father Time is undefeated. That's a cliche, but it is so true. And B, sometimes run it by your friends. Okay? You know what I mean? Like, check in with your buddies.

[Matt Jones]

And should I be doing this?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Right? Like, do you think Sean Casey went to a couple and was like, guys, do you think I should be playing a great American ballpark? We're playing for the Savannah Bananas. They probably would have been like, you know, that sounds like a good idea, but why don't you just go back and watch some YouTube highlights of when you were actually in shape to do this?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. He was like, look, these dudes aren't even good. They didn't even play in the majors. I can certainly hit a home run off them. Maybe not. Maybe hamstring torn off the boat. I will say we will have members of the Party animals, my adopted team here on Sunday morning next week. Who are they will try to talk me in to my I tend to be more Washington General's party animals than I am Savannah. Savannah Bananas.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I think the phenomenon is incredible and until you see it in person, it's hard to judge it. You've been no, but I and I've thought the same thing you've thought like this just seems bizarre. But I want to experience it in person before I say well, I will say this.

[Matt Jones]

They have more kids than any sporting event you will go to, so they're doing something right. If all all those kids are showing up and enjoying themselves, they are now the Knicks. I don't know if kids can afford to go to their games, but they certainly can root root and watch on tv and they're going to have to hire their new head coach. And maybe they're going to hire Sean Casey because they've tried everybody else and gotten turned on or turned on. Well, they may have gotten turned on, but they've mostly gotten turned down. That's next here on espn. Matt and Myron the PODC.

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[Matt Jones]

According to ESPN, Shyam Charani of the Knicks requested permission to speak to Hawks head coach.

[Shopify Ad]

Quinn Snyder, but were firmly denied.

[Matt Jones]

Joins the Mavericks, Rockets and the Timberwolves.

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Who have denied permission for their coaches.

[James]

To interview with New York.

[Matt Jones]

All three were given swift denials.

[Shopify Ad]

I'm told like these were the reactions teams are saying no hanging up.

[Matt Jones]

On the surface it does look like three strikes you're out. But we all know that denials there's always ways to go about it. And sometimes it's maybe the coaches that have to say, you know, I'm not really happy here. And then the teams have to reconsider. It is Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio. The we that of course was the lead in to talking about the Knicks, who are still looking for a head coach. They are planning to meet with Sacramento, former Sacramento's coach Mike Brown and former Memphis Grizzly coach Taylor Jenkins next week. You know, listen, far be it from me to tell people as successful as the Knicks franchise has been for the last 25 years, what to do. But I will admit when I. When I heard the news two weeks ago, Aaron, that, that the Knicks were firing Tom Thibodeau, my thought was, well, they got somebody and they think it's better. And I don't know if I think it's going to be better, but clearly they're, they've made a move. They're going to, you know, I seem to be like Mike Malone or something and like they're going to go do it. Then to have a situation where not only have you been rejected to talk to Jason Kidd or Emi Odoko, but then it's like Billy Donovan and Quinn Snyder will not take your calls. I'm sort of amazed that we're in. In this situation. I mean, let me just read the name that Mike Brown. I think Mike Brown is at this point coached 14 teams in the NBA. I'm not sure any of them.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

At least. At least.

[Matt Jones]

And then Taylor Jenkins, if Taylor Jenkins was sitting on my couch, I'd be like, why? Who let you in? Who are you again? Like, I wouldn't know who that is. So do you think in hindsight that the Thibodeau move. To me, it makes even less sense than it made at the moment when I didn't think it made sense then either.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

I'll tell you who I thought they had in mind right when they made the move. Maybe you're more tied into this world than I am. So you might have a better sense that he would never do it, but I thought that Jay Wright was going to be the next coach of the New York Knicks. That was the first two.

[Matt Jones]

I thought it was either Mike Malone or Jay Wright. Right.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Because the Villanova connection with Brunson and Bridges and Josh Hart, that they would get the band back together and that the Knicks front office could sell that as an upgrade.

[Matt Jones]

And he's very New York. He's so handsome. Like, you could just see him in the suit and all that. Riley all over again.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Right. You know, but now it appears to me, okay, make the case for Mike Brown. He's a good defensive minded coach. You know who else is a really good defensive minded coach?

[Matt Jones]

Tom.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Tib it up.

[Matt Jones]

Right.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

So, so I, I, I don't think that anybody that they're talking to would be an upgrade now. It could happen, Matt, that they end up hiring a coach that leads them to a championship and then their front office and everybody will have the last laugh. But the optics of this, the way that it looks, if you're a Nick fan, is we just had the best season in 25 years and two weeks later, we still look like one of the most incompetent franchises in all of professional sports.

[Matt Jones]

I think it's important that you said what you just said about, though it, it could work out. You know, I was ready at Kentucky for John Cal Perry not to be the coach, but there was a sense of if we were going to let that separation happen. Well, I'm sure they'll go get Danny Hurley or something and like, it'll be great. And then you ended up with Mark Pope and a lot of people, myself included, were like, oh, is that better? And then it worked out really well and he's done, I think he's made a huge upgrade. So you could end up with a situation where they get somebody we don't know or like, you know, basketball people know, but maybe the world doesn't know and it ends up better. But I'm skeptical because maybe in the locker room, like Tom Thibodeau, everybody was like, man, I can't look at your three greasy hairs on the top of your head anymore. Like, I've got to just have a change of pace, right? But I, like, I thought Tom Thibodeau was great. He took you farther than you've been in 25 years. The fact that you've got Quinn Snyder and Billy Donovan, people saying, yep, not going to be him. I feel like they're getting so far down the list at this point that you at some point have to say, maybe we should have just stayed where we were.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Matt, to be clear, you know that they're not getting rejected by Snyder and Donovan.

[Matt Jones]

I understand, but you got it by the teams. But you've got to know. Yes, you know, you got to know whether that's going to be an option or not. And clearly they did.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

It's no strategy at all for your whole plan to be, we're going to go hire somebody else's coach. The other problem with doing that is that you have to give up assets for that coach. So they're sending to me kind of a mixed message.

[Matt Jones]

What would you trade Quinn Snyder for?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Future second round pick?

[Matt Jones]

No offense to Quinn Snyder. I mean, he's a fellow Duke Law graduate, so I'm not trying to crush him. But like, I mean, you trade Carl Towns for Quinn Snyder, I mean, what are you, what are you. What are you getting? I just, I don't. I don't understand.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

If they had one, if they knew Kid wanted it and they knew the Mavericks were willing to let Kid go again. I'm not a big Jason Kid as a coach fan. He has taken a team to the Finals. Thibodeau tends to wear out his welcome. I kind of understand the thinking there at least, but they didn't even have that situation. Matt totally lined up and ready.

[Matt Jones]

But the Tom Thibodeau wears that is welcome. There's a part of me that goes, when you hire Tom Thibodeau, you can't be surprised that you got Tom Thibodeau. Like, we know what Tom Thibodeau is. We've seen it in other jobs. It's been successful. Why would you be surprised that he would be Tom Thibodeau? You know, JB Biggerstaff, the coach of the Pistons, said this week that Thibodeau was kind of the final straw of coaches getting fired who are successful. And I sort of agree with him because in hockey for years it was like, win the Stanley cup and then fire your coach because you don't think he'll be as good the next year. And it became ridiculous. And now the franchises that tend to be the best have got guys like Paul Maurice and Rob Brenda Moore, who've been there a long time. It seems like that's not happening quite as much. But do you think that's going to be how it is in the NBA? Like it's every year?

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Yes. We just went through a stretch where Taylor Jenkins got fired with 10 games to go. I thought that was crazy. Michael Malone got fired with three games to go. And I'm sorry, Matt, that was insane. And the Nuggets will say, oh, we still made it to game seven of the second round. But you did that because you had Nicola Jokic, not because David Adelman was coaching the team. And now you have this situation. I think NBA coaches have never been less valuable and more disposable than they are in 2025.

[Matt Jones]

I don't know that they are less valuable, though. I think they are more disposable. Because people are just like, well, there'll be somebody better. But I think the coaches, for the most part, still make some difference, although clearly the NBA owners don't.

[Aaron Goldhammer]

Rick Carlisle's made a difference.

[Matt Jones]

Of course he has. Emil Doku makes a difference when he goes play. I do think they make a difference. We'll look ahead. Game five tonight. That's next here on ESPN Radio. Matt and Myron, the podcast.