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- [00:00]
Matt
This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like, you know to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart.
- [00:21]
Myron Metcalf
So check Allstate first for a quote.
- [00:23]
Matt
That could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. This is Matt and Myron the podcast.
- [00:35]
Myron Metcalf
It is Catnap kickoff here on ESPN Radio presented by Progressive Insurance. That music kick. See, they either go or they cut it off like that.
- [00:47]
Herm Edwards
Any better?
- [00:49]
Myron Metcalf
There's got to be a middle ground somewhere. There's a cow. Call the Dr. Pepper. Call in line. 888-729-3776. Presented by Progressive Insurance. By the way, if you are able, please help the people affected by the California wildfires in 2025. You can donate@redcross.org ESPN that's redcross.org ESPN to help the Red Cross respond and help people recover. All right, so we've been through in depth analysis on this game. Let's get to both of them separately. Let's start with the Commanders and Eagles. Eagles are a six point favorite. I kind of look at this game, you know, I think it's. I don't want to say it's a toss up. I think the Eagles are slight favorites, but to me this is a game either team can win. If you're giving me six points, which apparently they are on ESPN bet, then I'm betting the Commanders because I think they have a shot to win. I generally have a rule. You do not bet in the postseason for a team unless you think they can win. I do think the Commanders can win. So I would take Commanders plus six. I don't know if they actually win the game, but I think it's what, 55, 45 was Philadelphia. So I'm kind of surprised the spreads this much.
- [02:05]
Matt
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm surprised because, you know, they won the last game over Philly, but it was a Kenny Pickett, but it was a three point game. So now you have Jalen hurts back. I don't know, man. I mean, there's a reason we haven't seen a lot of rookie quarterbacks lead their teams. The Super Bowls, um, and no one's won it. So it's a very difficult stage. No matter how good a player has been up until this point. I think Jaden Daniels has been remarkable. But now there's a lot more film on Jaden Daniels as there was than there was early in the season. And I think it's, it's just hard man to go on the road and to do this again if you're Washington. So I don't know, I'm. I might bet the Eagles here just because on this stage you rarely see one guy kind of carry a team to a Super Bowl. Now you bring up the Brock Purdy's of the world young quarterbacks where there's a lot of other pieces around them. That's one thing. If, if the Commanders go to the Super Bowl, Jane Daniels has to throw four or five, six touchdowns, 400 plus yards. He has to have one of those games I think to make it happen.
- [03:08]
Myron Metcalf
You know, if they were to make it, it certainly won't be a fluke. They will have played the three best teams in the NFC and beaten them all on the road. I mean, you know that is not an easy path. We talked about how if the, if the Eagles make it, you can argue they kind of got about as good a path as you could hope for. That's not true about the Commanders. They will have beaten the number three team, the number one team and the number two team back to back to back which would be, you know, a heck of a run for them. I like the Eagles just because to win the game even though I think it's kind of a toss up just because I think if you look the one thing about the Commanders, they've got run on all year and this is the best running back in the league right now and so how they stop that. But the way to lose this game is if Sirianni and the offense forgets what got them here. Right? Like if they forget because. Because you know that happened I think with Detroit last week. I think they kind of forgot sort of what was the way to beat Washington that led to the turnovers for me. Jalen hurts plays average. Rely on Saquon, you're going to win this game. But I think it's a game that the Eagles can blow if they make poor decisions.
- [04:20]
Matt
No, that's fair. I think Detroit was almost like a long time coming with the injuries. Like they have been playing without their full roster for a long time and I think once you get into the playoffs it was just too hard for them to compete in a game like that when so many defensive starters were out that. That's not Phillies issue, you know I mean, if they decide to take a bunch of risks that they haven't taken in the past, could they lose this game? Sure. But the defense has been good and they can almost play like a really good college team. Like they can just run the ball for four quarters and still beat you that way and be very conservative. Washington can't do that. That. There's no conservative approach to this game that will work for Washington if the goal is to win. I think that's why Philly has such an edge. Even if the big plays don't work, they can just win ugly and still get to a Super bowl that way.
- [05:15]
Myron Metcalf
I will say, as you watch down the stretch, special teams, you know, for both of these teams, they've had guys miss big kicks at certain games which have either kept games going or have had them lose. You know, I'm not sure what the kicking conditions are going to be like today, but they've. There've been some special teams miscues at some of these games early in the year for, well, kind of middle of the year for Washington and then on and off all throughout the year for. For Philadelphia. So that's worth. Worth kind of keeping an eye on 888, say, ESPN. Dave in Missouri. Dave, if you don't say you want to see the Chiefs and you're in Missouri, I would be surprised.
- [05:56]
Herm Edwards
You would be absolutely surprised. Now, I love to see that. I want my Chiefs to go back.
- [06:00]
Matt
For a three peat.
- [06:02]
Herm Edwards
I'd like to see him face the.
- [06:03]
Matt
Commanders just because of the story there. And, and I've got a question that I would want to throw out. It's a hypothetical.
- [06:13]
Herm Edwards
Everybody talks about how bad Caleb Williams team is in Chicago. What if. What if Caleb Williams was on the commander's team and Jaden Daniels was on the Bears? Would the role still be the same?
- [06:30]
Myron Metcalf
Nah, it's. I, it's hard to know. I mean, I don't, you know, it's hard to know. Obviously. I think the issue for Caleb Williams more than anything was, was coaching staff offensive decision making. I don't know that the Bears supporting cast, honestly, the offensive line was terrible. That was one thing I think Jaden Daniels was blessed with, was a good offensive line. But it's impossible to know if you switched sides. And you know, I heard, I heard someone. I think it was maybe Trent Dilfer or somebody say on a podcast this week. There's a lot of quarterbacks you can say that for though, right? Like you get picked in a system and if you got in a different one, your Career might have gone a completely different way.
- [07:09]
Matt
Yeah, no. And we have a lot of those conversations in those moments. I think the difference here is what you've seen from Jaden Daniels that you haven't seen from Caleb Williams yet is you can look at Jaden Daniels and say, there's something special there. Right. Does it continue? We don't know. You know, is this a guy who's gonna be doing this for a decade? We don't know. But in terms of what we've seen so far, you can look at that guy and go, there's a level there that no other quarterback at this stage is playing at. And we're trying to figure out still with Caleb Williams, if that's there for him.
- [07:41]
Myron Metcalf
I think with Caleb Williams and with most rookies, with Caleb Williams, you've seen special moments. With Jane Daniels, you've seen special games. Right? You've seen special. And I think that, for me, is the difference. I'm a Bears fan. There have been plays Caleb Williams made where I'm like, okay, this dude's it. Yeah, but then there are guys, but. And Jaden Daniels has those plays, but then he also has full games like that. I mean, if you were to go back, these two teams played each other, and if you go watch that game, they kind of looked equal to. Actually, Caleb looked a little better during a lot of the game. But you know what? Who won? At the end of the day, Jade Williams hits that Hail Mary and they get the win. So I think that's kind of been their difference so far, but I think.
- [08:31]
Matt
That changed potentially, potentially, the trajectory of both of their seasons. Like, Caleb Williams was playing great. I mean, he was leading that team. If. If Daniels doesn't throw that Hail Mary, I don't know that he gets the confidence boost. Obviously, the victory mattered. Like, that was a huge moment for both quarterbacks, and we might look back at that and go, that's when maybe the separate.
- [08:52]
Myron Metcalf
Well, the Bears season. The Bears season collapsed on that point. I think they lost, like, the next seven straight games. I mean, the Bears season completely collapsed, and you do wonder, would it have been a different season for them if they hadn't caught that?
- [09:07]
Matt
Yeah. I mean, and again, I think Caleb Williams. We could talk all. All day about Jaden Daniels, Caleb Williams. I think Jaden has separated himself already. But Caleb deserves a full coaching staff that's competent, that's trustworthy, that knows what they're doing. And you can't judge Caleb until Ben Johnson, to me, has at least a couple years establishing his system. With Caleb Williams.
- [09:29]
Myron Metcalf
What will be interesting is with both Drake May and Caleb Williams, they're both getting new coaching staffs with guys that all to all indications are very professional, high level coaches. They're both going to get a chance to find out if they're elite and if it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. And you'll know. You don't always get that with those guys, but I do feel like with those two dudes, we now know Jaden Daniels is the real thing. I think after next year when we're sitting here, we'll know Caleb Williams and Drake May, they will have their chance in year two.
- [10:06]
Matt
Yes. No, it's a big year. But also, you know, Jaden Daniels is now in this realm where we just watched CJ Stroud, you mentioned him earlier. We were having a lot of these combos about CJ Stroud. And now this year everyone's kind of pulled back and said, wait a minute, maybe we gotta hold back on this combo. So Jaden Daniels now has the pressure of is this real? Can you keep doing this? And I think the bar is much higher now for him.
- [10:30]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah. 888, say ESPN. We're going to get to the Bills and the Chiefs. Biggest game of his career. For Josh Allen and the Chiefs, a chance to do something we've never seen in a long time and we might never see again. That's a lot on the line for one kickoff here in six hours. That's next. Here, I'll count down to kickoff.
- [10:51]
Matt
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- [10:53]
Myron Metcalf
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- [10:56]
Matt
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- [10:59]
Myron Metcalf
Starting at $3.
- [11:01]
Matt
Coincidentally, those are the same three reasons.
- [11:03]
Myron Metcalf
You should come to Jack in the Box right now. At Jack, every bite's a big deal.
- [11:12]
Matt
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- [11:48]
Myron Metcalf
Some interesting stuff in that clip. A little bit of nonsense, but also some interesting stuff. The Chiefs do have the Better defense. They do have the better coach. I think they probably still have the better quarterback, but for some reason, the Bills still feel like a team that can win the game. Dan Orlovsky, he's ESPN's NFL analyst, the original co host of this show with Myron. Before we kicked him out because we didn't think he had anything that could. He could do with his career for the rest of the way. He said this week he thinks this is the biggest game that Josh Allen will have in his career.
- [12:22]
Herm Edwards
Biggest moment of his career. Biggest game of his career. You got to go get it done. You got to go knock off the Giant. Patrick's the Giant. No one cares about your stats in this game. You have to go into the belly of the beast and take him down. You got to go be Rocky and knock out Drago. That's what it is, and they know it, and he knows it. Remember, Peyton Manning did not become Peyton Manning until he beat Tom Brady. When?
- [12:44]
Matt
2006, in the playoffs. Right.
- [12:47]
Herm Edwards
You gotta go get it done. This is your best chance. It's the most complete football team you have. It's the most vulnerable Kansas City's been in relation to how you can compete against them. Josh Allen, if you want to be remembered for more, something more than like, hey, you were a good player, you got to go knock off. Patrick Mahomes.
- [13:04]
Myron Metcalf
I love Dan. I think he got that analogy, having never watched the movie since he said Dragon.
- [13:10]
Matt
I bet he did.
- [13:10]
Myron Metcalf
Drago.
- [13:11]
Matt
He has. He definitely, probably hasn't watched Rocky for.
- [13:13]
Myron Metcalf
I really like Dan, but Dan, I don't think you've watched Rocky for. Because no one would say Drago when it's. When it's Drago. But nevertheless, I think the point is valid. No one's going to care about anything in this game except the final score. And for Josh Allen to be what he is kind of destined to be as one of the greats of all time, he has to win. And this is probably the moment.
- [13:41]
Matt
This is. Yeah. Are you in the potentially Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers tear when it's all said and done? Are you Dan Marino? You know, I love Dan Marino. I talk about him a lot because I think he's just sort of forgotten in these conversations. But he didn't win a ring, and that matters.
- [13:58]
Myron Metcalf
But that's why he's forgotten, right? Like, that is why he's forgotten is the fact that he doesn't have one of these.
- [14:03]
Matt
And, you know, and I think. I think they made a really incredible point because it wasn't just Manning Winning a Super bowl in 06, it was beating Brady on the way there for Josh Allen to beat Mahomes and then to win a Super Bowl. Matt, no one could question the validity of that. Like, no one could say this isn't a real super bowl run. You would get the full credit and no matter what he did the rest of his career, he would always have that. So I think it is a big moment for Josh Allen. I think Dan's right. Last year they came to you, you lost the game. This year you're going there and Kansas City hasn't look, looked invincible. Mahomes overall, the better quarterback, he's not playing better than Josh Allen right now. Josh Allen's playing the best football in this game. So I think it is a pivotal moment.
- [14:46]
Myron Metcalf
I'm not, I, I, I, I don't know why everybody's so quick to say that. There's a difference between being the mvp, which I think clearly Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson was during the regular season. And then there's a different from being the best quarterback. And for me, the best quarterback is winning the game. You know, it's the classic. Like, do you think Tom Brady was the best quarterback of all time or not? Well, if you don't, then it's not to you so much about winning. It's about as it is about individual accolades. Here's what I know. I know if it's third and 10 and Kansas City has to get a first down to keep the ball moving, I know Patrick Mahomes is going to get it. Like, I know I've seen it a zillion times. He can be falling down. He's going to get it. Maybe he gets it by sliding and getting a flag, but he's going to get it. I don't know that yet about Josh Allen. And today is a chance for him to be put in that term. So everybody, I think it's two different conversations of who's better and who's playing better. Is Josh Allen playing better? I guess, but what metric? I mean, Kansas City still winning more, including, not just in the playoffs, including this particular season, they won more. What else do you want him to do?
- [15:58]
Matt
Yeah, but they lost to Buffalo, right? I mean, like, okay, that's Josh Allen's playing better, but, but he's playing better right now. There's no, there's no debate about that though. There's no bait about coming to, coming into this game right now.
- [16:09]
Myron Metcalf
It's a debate to me, it's, honestly, it's a debate to even if I'M the only one saying it. It's a debate to me because Mahomes is doing what you're supposed to do, which is win. That's what he's doing.
- [16:19]
Matt
That's. Well, and I agree today is a big factor. Right. And how we view Josh Allen in the conversation that you're having. But if we're talking about who's played the better football between the two up until this point, it's Josh Allen hands down. I mean, there's no debate.
- [16:31]
Myron Metcalf
I just about that there's.
- [16:33]
Matt
There can be a debate about that.
- [16:34]
Myron Metcalf
You keep saying there's no debate. I am debating you. He. I don't. If you're talking yards. Let me ask you a question. What is the goal when the season starts? The goal is to win the. Is to win the Super Bowl. Now, wait a minute. Let me finish before you interrupt. The goal is to win the Super Bowl. At this, up until this moment, Mahomes has done everything he's supposed to do as well or better than Josh Allen. He's won more games. They have home field advantage. They have. They are. Exactly. He could have gone 17 and oh. And thrown for 500 yards. And you know what? He would be in the exact same position he is today hosting the AFC championship against the Bills. I can't say until someone beats Mahomes that they are playing better. I just can't. Now, if he wins today, I'll have that. I'll agree with you. But until then, I mean, if Kansas City wins today, you still going to try to tell me Josh Allen's playing better than Mahomes?
- [17:32]
Matt
How many times I got to see how he plays? I gotta say he plays. Let's have a real conversation.
- [17:37]
Myron Metcalf
Let's assume that. Let me give you all the facts. Let me just assume Allen has an amazing day. Let's assume he throws for 350 yards and is awesome. And let's assume that Patrick Mahomes dinks and dunks. You know this. They get an interception, etc. And they win 24, 23. You still going to tell me Josh Allen's better?
- [17:59]
Matt
But, but you're doing. You're, you're, you're doing two different things. You're suggesting that. I'm saying what's on the line today is whether or not Josh Allen is the better quarterback than Patrick Mahomes. That's not what I'm saying at all. But if we're going to have a real conversation, we need to do that. Kansas City won multiple games this season in spite of Mahomes the defense did it. And a lot of games you had weird plays at the end game.
- [18:24]
Myron Metcalf
Those games. You had games in all those one possession games.
- [18:28]
Matt
He wasn't, he had. Wasn't a Pro Bowler mat.
- [18:30]
Myron Metcalf
But Matt, he wasn't mad.
- [18:31]
Herm Edwards
He's not.
- [18:32]
Matt
He wasn't one of the three best quarterbacks in the NFL this year.
- [18:35]
Myron Metcalf
Also ridiculous.
- [18:35]
Matt
He wasn't.
- [18:36]
Myron Metcalf
I don't know how you can have a dude who has won like 15 and 2 because we use this number. Focused obsession and we miss. I mean, let me ask you a question. Big time game coming up tomorrow. Who do you want? You want Josh Allen? You want Lamar Jackson? Excuse me? You want Patrick Mahomes? You want Lamar Jackson? I'm asking questions. Who do you want?
- [18:54]
Matt
But. But you're doing the lawyer thing. You're giving three different conversations. Who do you want? And there's three different answers.
- [18:58]
Myron Metcalf
Patrick Mahomes or do you want Lamar.
- [19:00]
Matt
Jackson Mahomes in the, in what you're describing. But that's not the conversation though. The conversation is not that. The conversation is right now who's playing the best football between these two quarterbacks. Undeniably, that is Josh. That doesn't mean he's going to win today. That doesn't mean he wins today. But it does mean he's playing the better football right now, which is why he was a Pro Bowler and Patrick Mahomes was not. Kansas City stumbled into a bunch of. Not because of Mahomes, not because of my homes.
- [19:31]
Myron Metcalf
Wait a minute. Isn't your guy in Minnesota? Isn't he a Pro Bowler?
- [19:36]
Matt
Listen, I'm not saying that's the end all be all, but you have to give Josh Allen credit.
- [19:41]
Myron Metcalf
Pro Bowler. Is he better than. Are you going to tell me Sam.
- [19:44]
Matt
Darnold's playing better than Patrick? No, I'm, I'm. No, I'm going to tell you that Josh Allen has played better than Mahomes.
- [19:49]
Myron Metcalf
Okay?
- [19:49]
Matt
That's just a, that's just a fact.
- [19:51]
Myron Metcalf
There is.
- [19:52]
Matt
That doesn't mean today he wins.
- [19:53]
Myron Metcalf
There are a group of people that have, have in my opinion separated being immensely talented, making amazing plays and putting up big numbers and being the best because the best to me requires winning in my. There are going to be people. If Josh Allen plays really well today and loses, which could very well happen, there will be people that will come out of the game and tell me Josh Allen is still the best quarterback when he loses again to Patrick Mahomes. But I don't. There's this weird obsession to say Mahomes is somehow not as good as these guys when he keeps winning now.
- [20:31]
Matt
But Jokic has outplayed LeBron James in multiple seasons over the last five years. But LeBron's the better player. I think people would say LeBron's the best player.
- [20:40]
Myron Metcalf
LeBron is not.
- [20:41]
Matt
No, but I mean, but it's the same conversation. Josh Allen is playing better than Patrick Mahomes, and there's no way to support your argument against that.
- [20:50]
Myron Metcalf
He didn't even win as many regular season games as Mahomes.
- [20:53]
Matt
But that's a team component, though. You can't just put that on him solely. There's a team.
- [20:58]
Myron Metcalf
The Bills. I would argue the Chiefs defense is better. I would argue the Bill's offense is better.
- [21:02]
Matt
Yeah.
- [21:03]
Myron Metcalf
And yet Mahomes win.
- [21:05]
Matt
Who's in the Pro Bowl?
- [21:07]
Myron Metcalf
Sam Darnold. So maybe he should be. Maybe Sam Darnold. Who's in the Pro Bowl. That's what we're going to remember are Pro Bowls. Herman Edwards here. I got that.
- [21:18]
Matt
To kickoff next Pro Bowls from ESPN Podcast and Omaha Productions. Coach is a new, groundbreaking educational football podcast hosted by NFL legends Bill Belichick, Matt, Patricia and Michael Lombardi. In each episode, the coaches break down game changing situations and front office management tactics, sharing insights from decades of coaching experience and opening up the Bill Belichick Encyclopedia of football knowledge created by football legends for football fans. New episodes of Coach Drop weekly. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Matt and Myron. The podcast.
- [22:00]
Myron Metcalf
It's kind of the kickoff on ESPN Radio. Presented by Progressive Insurance. We are now joined. You know, when it gets playoff time, this dude gets busy. Herm Edwards. He's on everything. See him on Tik Tok. He'll be on Sports Center America. Oh, he's everywhere. Like, so. Herm, I want, I want to tell you something before we get started. A listener to my show.
- [22:21]
Herm Edwards
Yes.
- [22:22]
Myron Metcalf
Sent me your football card.
- [22:24]
Herm Edwards
Oh.
- [22:26]
Myron Metcalf
From 1978. And it says Herman Edwards. And I'm going to read you. Can I read you your. Your bio from your 1978 tops football.
- [22:35]
Herm Edwards
That was my second year.
- [22:36]
Myron Metcalf
Herman. Herman. It doesn't say Herm, by the way. It says Herman, Myron. It says Herman.
- [22:43]
Matt
Okay.
- [22:43]
Myron Metcalf
Made perhaps the Eagles most gratifying play of 1978 at Hackensack. November 19th. The Eagles were trailing 1712 with less than a minute remaining. Herman grabbed a fumble and ran 26 yards to score for a 1917 win. And at the end, it says, Herman would like to teach after his football career ends. How about that? Herman had had it pretty right.
- [23:05]
Herm Edwards
Yeah. I was named after my father. My father's name was Herman.
- [23:08]
Myron Metcalf
Yep, 6ft, 190. Signed as an Undraft free agent from Seaside, California. Herman. I love it.
- [23:16]
Herm Edwards
That's exactly right.
- [23:19]
Matt
Monster Herman.
- [23:19]
Herm Edwards
Only sad part about that card, it didn't have those. All those interceptions I had and.
- [23:23]
Myron Metcalf
Oh, it has you. It has. It actually doesn't have the interceptions it says you have. No. You had six interceptions your first year.
- [23:30]
Herm Edwards
Seven.
- [23:31]
Myron Metcalf
Seven intercept years. Your second year, 13 total. The first year, you had six interceptions for nine yards. Second year, seven for 59 yards.
- [23:39]
Herm Edwards
That's right. Okay, we're good. Look at that.
- [23:41]
Myron Metcalf
So how about that 33rd?
- [23:44]
Matt
Were you a shoulder check guy? Like, were you running into guys? Like, shoulder. Like, how were you hitting guys?
- [23:48]
Herm Edwards
Oh, you tackle them now. Put him down the ground.
- [23:52]
Matt
Not. Because that didn't happen anymore. That's not.
- [23:54]
Herm Edwards
You tackle and put them on the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had the big shoulder pads back in those days. We really played tackle football.
- [24:00]
Myron Metcalf
Well, I guess I love the fact that you. That this card that. One of my listeners sent it to me and it led me to think of you. So. So let's talk about the. The head coaching hires real quick before we get to the games. You know, there were like. There were five. We mentioned Schottenheimer to the Cowboys, Cohen to the Jags, Johnson to the Bears, Aaron Glenn to the jets, and then Pete Carroll to the Raiders. Obviously, Variable was earlier. Of those five that have happened in the last week, do any stick out to you one way or the other?
- [24:32]
Herm Edwards
Well, I mean, Brian Schottenheimer, in the fact that I worked for his father when he was in high school.
- [24:39]
Matt
Wow. Marty.
- [24:40]
Herm Edwards
Marty. When I was first with Kansas City, and I can remember taking Brian, we. We were going to play the Raiders, and I took him to his first football game when it was SC playing. I forget who SC was playing in the Coliseum. So I've just kind of watched him over his career as a young high school kid, you know, then playing quarterback in college, whatever, and getting into professional ranks, and now he's the head coach. It's amazing. The Dallas Cowboys. That's interesting. It just is. I mean, you know, and I'm wishing him all the success in the world, but I'm just saying, it's funny when you've been around that long where you can say, hey, man, this guy was in high school.
- [25:12]
Myron Metcalf
I remember when he was in high school. Yeah, high school. Myron, by the way, gave that hire an F. Myron, I'll just let you.
- [25:17]
Matt
Yeah, I did Well, I just didn't think. I thought they, you know, it didn't. It wasn't a home run. It didn't feel like it. Maybe I could be proven.
- [25:24]
Herm Edwards
Well, I think Jerry wanted to keep the quarterback, you know, feeling okay. His offensive coordinator is the guy. And then I do think Jerry feels like, guess what? I can still be Jerry and I can run things.
- [25:35]
Matt
Yeah, that's what. That's. That's the. That's the argument I made. Coach, you've been involved in these searches where you have a job, you get a call to take another job, and I'm sure there's a lot of emotion that goes into that. Liam Cohen, according to the reports, agreed to stay as the Bucks, said no to the Jags, agreed to stay as the Bucks offensive coordinator, then change his mind the next day and becomes the Jags head coach. There's back and forth about what really happened. What did you make of that situation, and what is it like when you actually have to make that decision about whether or not you're going to take that head coaching job?
- [26:05]
Herm Edwards
Well, first of all, when you hire your staff, you know, when you hire staff guys, you always kind of look at where they've been before and how long they stay at jobs. Yeah, that was awesome.
- [26:15]
Myron Metcalf
You left Kentucky twice, Herb, after a year.
- [26:18]
Herm Edwards
He's got a history, you know, and then that doesn't. It does not make him not a good coach. But you just go, okay, when you hire guys like that, you can't hire a bunch of them. You can hire one or two, you feel like, okay, and then you gotta have a replacement for them because they're looking every year. That's just their. That's just their deal. They're looking every year. Now, when you become a head coach, that ain't the case. Right. Because you. Now you're trying to keep your job, but when you're an assistant coach, you're always trying to find the next. The better job. Right. And so that's kind of been his history, so it didn't surprise me when it happened. He's standing, he's going. I said, okay, well, that's kind of what he does. Right. So I wish him a lot of success, but we'll see what happens.
- [26:58]
Myron Metcalf
Can Pete Carroll coach today the way he did 12 years ago when they won the Super Bowl?
- [27:06]
Herm Edwards
Yeah, because I think Pete can relate to the players. You know, he's. That. He's that kind of guy, and I think that's what they wanted. And not. Not saying AP didn't do that. But I, I think, you know, they wanted overall structure in this whole organization. I think this organization is looking for a guy that has been in an organization when he was in Seattle and, and, and kind of fixed it. He fixed the whole organization. And I think that's what the Raiders want right now. Not only as a head coach, but just how you, how do you fix the building, right, the scouting department, all these things, how we did in Seattle to build the model that he built and eventually won a Super Bowl.
- [27:43]
Matt
Aaron Glenn is a guy who's intriguing to me. Yes, obviously his story is remarkable. I think he was owned a few restaurants, decided he wanted to get back into football and became a scout and worked his way up. So you got to respect that. And obviously played at a high level. He was a top 15 pick in the mid-90s. But I question if defensive coordinators can be good head coaches. In today's NFL. We've seen, I feel like more struggles than successes over the last decade. What might make Aaron Glenn different in New York?
- [28:16]
Herm Edwards
Well, Aaron Glenn's a good people's person. Aaron played for me with the jets as well. So I'm a fan of Aaron Glenn. I think, you know, sometimes we get this head coaching deal. There's a couple. There's a couple ways you can be a head coach. You can be one that's strong on the defensive side and say, hey, man, I'm gonna hire me an offensive coordinator, which you have to do. Or you can be on the other side and say, I'm gonna be an offensive coach, but I'm gonna hire a good defensive coordinator at the end. For me, in today's world, the head coach has to coach everybody. You don't coach on one side of the ball anymore. You gotta connect to the locker room. That's your job, to the locker room and to the coaches. You gotta all be on the same page. That is a big time task. So you don't have time to work on one side of the ball. You gotta coach the team and the coaches. In my opinion. That's just my opinion.
- [29:08]
Myron Metcalf
In today's world, hard to call the plays and be the.
- [29:11]
Herm Edwards
You can't do all that. You gotta be in all the rooms, man, and you gotta trust, you know, you gotta trust these guys.
- [29:18]
Myron Metcalf
Let's talk about the games. We got Eagles and commanders today. You know, you've been Jaden Daniels, known him as long as anybody. The moment won't be too big for him. But can they go get it done?
- [29:29]
Herm Edwards
They can get it done. And now, and I think A couple things have to happen for them to get it done. If you're on. On the other side of the ball defensively, they got to find a way to slow this run down. They did it the second half, I get that part. But they got to slow the rundown of the Philadelphia Eagles because that's what got them here, their ability to run the football. Now Jalen Hurst is a little bit wounded. I actually think that's a good thing because now he's got to play from the pocket and he's going to have to throw the ball from the pocket, which I think is a good thing. On the flip side of it, Jaden's dealing with the number one defense in the National Football League. They gotta. They got. They better do this. That guy Carter, you better block him. You better block him, because if you don't block him, he gonna wreck the game. Now he's gonna flat wreck the game. And, and what I would do with him personally, I would always put him on the. On the left side, on the defensive left side. So when they run that RPO's over there, he could blow it up. He could flat blow it up. So we'll see. I mean, you know, it's one of those games. Philadelphia is the better team, but. But the Washington Commanders are the hottest team right now.
- [30:40]
Matt
Yeah, Coach, we've had a lot of these moments where young quarterbacks, we found out that they were just made of something else. Joe Burrow, obviously, Mahomes Brady, you've obviously been around him like, what is it about Jaden Daniels that makes him ready for a moment like this?
- [30:56]
Herm Edwards
He has it. And how do you define it? I mean, we've seen players of his ilk before playing. I mean, you've seen a lot of great players and they got it. You have to figure, how does he do that? I don't just enjoy it. And that's what I did when I had him. I learned real early when he was a freshman, I went, huh, okay. And it's never too big for him. He under. The moment's never too big. And this game, to him, I'm just telling you, it's not like, oh, it's a championship game. And no, no, it's just another game. He looks at them all the same. This is another game, man. I'm gonna go ahead and do my job, I'm gonna smile, I'm gonna play football, and I'm just gonna go compete. That's what he does. He lets everybody else talk about it. I'm just gonna go compete. I'm gonna just be me.
- [31:41]
Myron Metcalf
Chiefs in the Bills. Listen, we've seen this, we've seen this for years. Does the, do we get a different result this year?
- [31:48]
Herm Edwards
Yeah. Well, they better have an answer for Kelsey because if you don't stop that guy, you know, and you play in a one possession game, you're gonna lose. People said, how do you stop it? Yes, they won 11 in a row. And I said, you know how you stop that? Don't let it be a one possession game. Go score some points.
- [32:08]
Myron Metcalf
How he beat him in Buffalo. It was a two possession game most of the time.
- [32:12]
Herm Edwards
Don't, don't let it be a one possession game. Because when you mess around and let them hang around, they're 11 and, oh, that's what they do. Right? So this will be interesting game, I think.
- [32:21]
Myron Metcalf
Why do you think Kelsey, by the way, real quick, why do you think Kelsey is able to just turn it on like this at the end both years last year and this year?
- [32:29]
Herm Edwards
Well, I think he understands the moment and I think at times, you know, he glides. He just kind of waits for the different moments in games. But his, his playoff, his playoff numbers are just crazy. 20 touchdowns, what, 177 catches. I mean, it's just, it's like people don't guard him. You know what I said earlier when I was bloor center? I said, look, if I'm playing Kelsey and I'm the defensive coach, even though I'm the head coach, here's what we're doing, boys. When he lines up in the core, when you're the defensive end and it's a pass, I don't want you just to take off and rush. I want you to hit him. I want you to hold him up for at least three seconds at the line of scrimmage before you even decide to rush. When he's outside the core, I'm lining a linebacker up over him and I'm saying, I want you to chuck this guy. I want you to hit him before you drop into your zone. Do not allow him free access. I want him beat up the whole day. I want him crying to the officials sitting there hitting me. Yeah, it's legal. We can hit you. You're in a line of scrimmage, we can hit you. And that's what I would do to him. I wouldn't let this guy. Because at the end, if you don't do that and you just let him free release, he knows zones. He's very smart. He dies in the middle area of the zone where There's a void. And guess who finds him. Patrick Mahomes.
- [33:39]
Myron Metcalf
There you go. Herm Edwards. You gotta go do more television so.
- [33:43]
Herm Edwards
We won't let you.
- [33:44]
Matt
Other places. Yeah.
- [33:45]
Herm Edwards
This ABC and this Good Morning America. Starting to wear me out. But it's all good.
- [33:49]
Myron Metcalf
That's all right. It's what you get. Such a celebrity. Thank you. I appreciate it. There you go. Worn out, my man. Got it. Is now time for us to make our championship game picks. Myron has. He's already lost the playoff battle. He lost the regular season battle. But maybe he can save some face. This for him is like week eight team. He's going to try not to pull the starters even though he's tanking for the first pick. That's next year. I count that in. The kickoff on ESPN Radio.
- [34:23]
Matt
Matt and Myron.
- [34:24]
Myron Metcalf
The podcast kind of kickoff here on ESPN Radio. Presented by Progressive Insurance. Been a fun morning of your calls. Herman Edwards and Myron Metcalf. Now we get ready. It's time to make the picks. The two games that we all are waiting on. 3:00, Commander's Eagles, 630, Bills versus Chiefs. But there's no way you can know what to do unless you listen to take your time to take your pick.
- [34:51]
Matt
Commanders at Eagles.
- [34:53]
Myron Metcalf
There you go. The Commanders and the Eagles. Eagles are a six point favorite. Sal Palantonio actually has an update. It wasn't just for us, but it's for everyone. On Jalen hurts here before the game. Let's go ahead and play that real quick. Nick Sirianni was first on the field this morning. You can see him walking the field like he does customarily right before a football game. I caught up with him outside the locker room and I asked him, what was your message to the team last night. He said, sal, I kept it simple like I always do. Tough details. Stay together. Now as for Jalen hurts, I watched him in practice on Thursday and Friday. No restrictions, but game speed is a lot different from practice speed. He will wear a brace, he says, on his injured left knee. But he thinks he's ready to go. We shall see. In this football game, he had one message to the team. Bottom line, I look at this as a moment of arrival. Nothing has been accomplished yet. Moment of arrival today for the six point favorites from the Philadelphia Eagles. You got Jalen hurts. Chance to go to his second super bowl. Maybe win his first. Jaden Daniels chance to he's known in NFL circles. If he wins today, he'll be known in all circles. What do you see happening Byron.
- [36:11]
Matt
Well, I mean I think a lot of people are going to be watching that left knee with Jalen Hurts. You know how he holds up if he's moving properly. I think in the second game, even though the storyline was Jalen Hurts didn't play, Kenny Pickett played instead. They also got the upgraded version of Jaden Daniels. They caught him as he was continuing to improve. Right. He helps his team put up 36 points, 258 yards, five touchdowns in the air. He threw two picks as well. He also rushed for 81 yards in that game. So if they're getting that version of Jaden Daniels against this defense, I think there should be real concern here about a potential upset. I, I wish I had, I was more gutsy here. Like I wish I could call this for the Commanders and pick them because I want to, because I won't be shocked if they pull off another three point win. But I just feel like in these moments there's a reason young guys usually struggle and the Eagles can just make this a really ugly slow game that works in their favor and they can win that way. So I think the Eagles win, but I also think Jaden Daniels in the second game over Philly. No, Jalen Hurts, yes, but he was remarkable in that game against this Eagles defense and he could be again today.
- [37:28]
Myron Metcalf
Yeah, I mean I love the getting the six points with the Commanders. Earlier in the week it was actually at six and a half. I loved it even more then. But if we're just talking about who's winning for me, Philadelphia's at home. Philadelphia could have won this game with Kenny Pickett. Now you get Jalen Hurts back. I think Barkley is going to run wherever he wants to go. But I do think Jalen Hurts is going to have to make a couple plays. I like term Edwards point. Maybe him having the left knee issue will make him stay in the pocket. You won't have quite as many potential screw ups basically which is probably better for the Eagles. So I'm going to take the Eagles to win, but I still like the Commanders to bet to cover. But I'll take the Eagles to win the game. Who's up next? Bills and Chiefs, the big one. Myron, what do you got? Mahomes versus the guy you say is better than Josh Allen. Does he finally win it and prove it?
- [38:24]
Matt
I didn't say he was better. I mean again, that's not what I said. What I said was he's playing better. I mean you had last year which I think was still the best opportunity. If you were going to catch Patrick Mahomes in Kansas City when he had to travel to both Buffalo and Baltimore to win and to get to a Super bowl. And he beat both Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. Now Josh Allen is coming in. I think this is a more balanced team than last year's team. I don't think it has as much star power, and I just think you need star power to beat a team like Kansas City in their building. Like, to me, the. The scenario that has to scare Buffalo Bills fans is, what if Josh Allen isn't great? Okay, that happens in these moments. That. That's, that's not a crazy idea, but who's your number two? Like, who do you turn to? And go, all right, we'll turn to what? James Cook? I just think that, to me, is the real struggle for this Buffalo team. There's no one be here. Whereas, as you mentioned, if Mahomes isn't great, you can play that short yardage game with Travis Kelsey. The defense has been incredible. So I just think the star power element for me is the biggest difference in that Josh Allen may not have enough around him in a moment like this to go on the road and to beat a team like Kansas City, which looks like they're on the way to maybe winning their third super bowl in a row. So I think it's Kansas City, and it's really hard to argue against that considering the circumstances.
- [39:51]
Myron Metcalf
If you want to make the case for Josh Allen, especially if they win today, here would be the case. I think last year, I think Myron's right. Last year was the year to get the Chiefs. They were at their worst. The Bills were better. The Bills were at home, and the Chiefs were coming off having gone to the Ravens. They didn't get the victory. Could have, didn't. All right, now, fast forward to this year. I think this Chiefs team is slightly better than last year's team. I think this Bill's team is slightly worse than last year's team. So if Josh Allen can go and win at Kansas City with a slightly worse version of his team and a slightly better version of the Kansas City team, then that would suggest Josh Allen has taken even another leap forward. If you look at his play this season, on paper, it looks like he has, but you got to close it out. While that's a great story, in reality, this game is in Kansas City. Kansas City has lost once in the playoffs at home in the Mahomes era, and it was kind of a weird game against Cincinnati. Now they get them again. I am not betting against Patrick Mahomes until he loses. I got that way with Brady. I did not bet against him. And then finally he lost in year two at Tampa. I'm not betting against him until he loses. Give me the Chiefs at home and the Chiefs going to yet another super bowl. And I think they'll go ahead, Myron, and win their third straight.
- [41:18]
Matt
Feels that way. You know, it feels that way. I think we'll get Kansas City and probably Philly in a rematch. You know, that'll be fun. But I think Jaden Daniels being in the mix would make it more intriguing no matter what happens on the AFC side.
- [41:34]
Myron Metcalf
No, I mean, look, I like, I think whatever version of these four teams you get, I think it's going to be exciting. I mean, there's a lot of different ways to look at it. You could get Chiefs, Eagles, rematch. You could get. You could get Bill's Eagles, two of the most insane fan bases in New Orleans. Right. You could get, you could get commanders, Chiefs, the new star versus the old, you know, superstar. And then you could get Alan and Daniels both trying to get their first one. I think no matter what you get, it'll be great. Myron, I appreciate it. I enjoyed it today. Good luck. You're flying to Raleigh later on, so it's enjoy your love, enjoy your flight.
- [42:12]
Matt
I'll enjoy RA thanks for listening to Matt and Myron the podcast. You can listen to the show live every Sunday morning at 10am Eastern on ESPN radio, the ESPN app, and on Sirius XM channel 80. Matt and Myron, the podcast.
- [42:36]
Herm Edwards
No matter.
- [42:36]
Matt
What, you're a fan of Texas, has the trip for you. There's the trip to Texas and the.
- [42:48]
Herm Edwards
Trip.
- [42:49]
Matt
Or maybe you're the kind of fan who'd prefer a trip to Texas or a trip. Either way, go to traveltexas.com getyourown for the only trip to Texas that matters. Yours.