Hour 3: Selection Show

Summary

Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron: Hour 3 - Selection Show Detailed Summary

In the March 17, 2025 episode of “Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron” titled “Hour 3: Selection Show”, hosts Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf engage in an in-depth analysis of the NCAA Tournament Selection Sunday. The episode features insightful interviews with prominent basketball coaches and officials, dissecting team performances, seeding decisions, and the controversies surrounding the bracket selections. This comprehensive summary captures all essential discussions, key points, and notable quotes from the episode.

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1. Introduction and Opening Remarks

The episode kicks off with a brief introduction from the hosts, Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf, setting the stage for a critical examination of the NCAA Tournament selections. They highlight the excitement surrounding March Madness and the pivotal role of Selection Sunday in shaping the tournament landscape.

2. Interview with Coach Pat Kelsey (University of Louisville)

Community Impact and Team Revival

Coach Pat Kelsey of the University of Louisville is the first guest, bringing a perspective steeped in revitalizing Louisville basketball. Kelsey emphasizes the profound connection between the team and the city, highlighting efforts to reignite fan passion and restore pride in the Louisville basketball brand.

“It's more than just the team in town. It kind of makes this place go around and makes it spin.” [01:19]

Disappointment Over Seeding

A significant portion of the interview centers on Louisville’s unexpected eighth seed placement in the tournament. Kelsey expresses disappointment, arguing that the team’s metrics and performance deserved a higher seed. He underscores the team's impressive record and strong performance in the ACC, suggesting that Louisville should have been seeded between five and six.

“In my opinion, we should be playing a 12 or 11 seed. Every metric under the sun that you look at...” [03:10]

Matchup Concerns and Competitive Edge

Kelsey discusses the upcoming matchup against Creighton, acknowledging Creighton as a formidable opponent. He stresses the importance of thorough preparation to maintain Louisville’s competitive edge.

“We have to do a great job in preparation over the next couple days.” [03:36]

Community Engagement and Support

Highlighting the team’s role in uplifting the community, Kelsey reflects on the passionate support from Louisville residents and the broader impact of collegiate sports on the city’s morale.

“We have restored that pride that they have in the Louisville basketball brand.” [01:19]

3. Interview with Coach Mark Pope (University of Kentucky)

First-Year Challenges and Resilience

Mark Pope, in his first year coaching the University of Kentucky, shares insights into managing a team fraught with injuries and maintaining performance amidst uncertainties. He emphasizes the team's resilience and the structured approach to overcoming setbacks.

“Our guys have demonstrated over and over throughout the season about how they respond to setbacks.” [16:55]

Handling Injuries and Player Availability

Pope addresses the challenges posed by player injuries, specifically mentioning Lamont Butler’s status and the team's expectation for full health entering the tournament. He explains the strategic decisions behind managing player readiness.

“We expect him to congeo. He's made huge progress in the last 48 hours...” [17:07]

Emotional and Strategic Preparation

Discussing the team’s emotional state after a disappointing loss to Alabama, Pope describes the “five-step grieving process” the team undergoes to turn setbacks into learning opportunities, fostering unity and commitment.

“We go through a grieving process intensely and well and good together.” [18:08]

Player Development and Leadership

Pope highlights the transformation of key players like Chucky Hepburn, attributing his development to both coaching strategies and the player’s intrinsic talent and determination.

“We just gave him the ball and said, Chucky, we give you the ball at seven at night.” [05:31]

4. Interview with Phil Martelli Jr. (Bryant University)

Historic Tournament Appearance

Phil Martelli Jr., head coach of Bryant University, discusses Bryant’s first-ever NCAA Tournament appearance. He reflects on the honor of facing established teams and the personal connection with mentors like Michigan State’s Tom Izzo.

“It's an honor to even be on there, going up against Coach Izzo on the sideline.” [24:35]

Legacy and Family Ties

Martelli Jr. delves into the emotional significance of participating in the tournament alongside his father, a seasoned coach. He recounts memorable moments that underscore the deep familial bonds within the coaching community.

“The pride that I've always had for him and his career is something I could never put into words.” [26:28]

Key Player Contributions

Focusing on standout player Barry Evans, Martelli Jr. praises his work ethic and humility, noting how Evans' dedication has been pivotal to Bryant’s success.

“Barry is just a great player and an awesome person.” [27:23]

5. Discussion on Selection Controversies

North Carolina vs. West Virginia Seeding Debate

A heated segment revolves around the controversial inclusion of North Carolina over West Virginia in the tournament bracket. Hosts Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf scrutinize the selection committee’s decision, highlighting disparities in team performances and metrics.

“The metrics are more favorable to them than they actually performed.” [29:24]

Committee’s Decision-Making Process

The discussion extends to the integrity of the selection process, questioning the transparency and criteria used by the committee. Matt Jones emphasizes the inconsistency in seeding decisions, particularly regarding North Carolina’s placement.

“They have to answer about North Carolina. I think they have to answer.” [12:46]

Impact on Conference Perception

The conversation touches upon how seeding decisions, especially Louisiana’s eighth seed and North Carolina’s inclusion, affect the perceived strength of the ACC and other conferences within the tournament landscape.

“The ACC is a strong league, but there are a lot of teams sitting on that bubble.” [39:52]

6. Insights from Selection Committee Members

Chairman Bubba Cunningham’s Perspective

Bubba Cunningham, Chairman of the NCAA Tournament Committee, provides official insights into the seeding process. He defends the committee’s decisions, citing comprehensive evaluations of team performances, strength of schedule, and conference strength.

“We thought Auburn deserved to be the number one and Duke the number two.” [38:53]

Addressing Criticisms and Transparency

Cunningham responds to criticisms regarding specific seeding choices, explaining that decisions are based on a holistic assessment of each team's body of work, including metrics like Strength of Record and Wins Above Bubble.

“When you consider how many teams did get in, Carolina ended up getting in as a strong league representative.” [42:14]

Handling Last-Minute Player Availability

The committee discusses the challenges posed by last-minute changes in player availability, such as Iowa State’s key player Tyrese Hunter’s injury, and its impact on seeding and matchups.

“We rely on the schools and the conferences to provide that information.” [43:38]

7. Additional Interviews and Perspectives

Phil Martelli Jr. on Tournament Dynamics

Further insights are shared by Phil Martelli Jr. regarding the tournament’s excitement and the unpredictable nature of matchups, reinforcing the emotional and competitive spirit of March Madness.

“It's supposed to be about all the drama and we’re gonna have all the drama we can possibly handle.” [20:25]

Bubba Cunningham and Keith Gill’s Explanations

The episode features a joint discussion with Bubba Cunningham and Keith Gill, Commissioner of the Sunbelt Conference, elaborating on the seeding rationale and addressing specific controversies like Louisville’s placement in Lexington.

“We didn’t want to exceed four teams in any one region, and that made us move a few teams.” [43:10]

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf reflect on the complexities of Selection Sunday, acknowledging the emotional investments of teams and fans alike. They express anticipation for the upcoming tournament games and the unfolding of new and compelling storylines.

“This is a great year. It was very nice to be here with you, Mom.” [45:42]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Pat Kelsey:

  “We have successfully lifted this city up, restoring the pride that they have in the Louisville basketball brand.” [01:19]

• Pat Kelsey:

  “In my opinion, we should be playing a 12 or 11 seed. Every metric under the sun that you look at...” [03:10]

• Mark Pope:

  “Our guys have demonstrated over and over throughout the season about how they respond to setbacks.” [16:55]

• Mark Pope:

  “We go through a grieving process intensely and well and good together.” [18:08]

• Phil Martelli Jr.:

  “It's an honor to even be on there, going up against Coach Izzo on the sideline.” [24:35]

• Phil Martelli Jr.:

  “Barry is just a great player and an awesome person.” [27:23]

• Matt Jones:

  “The metrics are more favorable to them than they actually performed.” [29:24]

• Bubba Cunningham:

  “We thought Auburn deserved to be the number one and Duke the number two.” [38:53]

• Bubba Cunningham:

  “When you consider how many teams did get in, Carolina ended up getting in as a strong league representative.” [42:14]

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Key Takeaways and Insights

1. Seeding Controversies: The episode highlights significant debates over team seedings, particularly the placement of University of Louisville as an eighth seed and North Carolina’s inclusion over West Virginia, questioning the selection committee’s criteria and consistency.

2. Team Resilience and Preparation: Interviews with coaches underscore the importance of resilience, strategic preparation, and emotional intelligence in navigating the challenges of a long season and preparing for high-stakes tournament play.

3. Committee Transparency: The guests emphasize the complexity of the selection process, advocating for transparency and a holistic evaluation of team performances, while also defending the committee’s decisions against criticisms.

4. Emotional and Community Impact: The discussions reveal the profound emotional connections between teams, coaches, and their communities, illustrating how collegiate sports transcend mere competition to become integral parts of local identity and pride.

5. Future Implications: The episode suggests potential implications for future tournament selections and the ongoing scrutiny of the committee’s decisions, highlighting the need for continual assessment and improvement in the selection process.

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Conclusion

The March 17, 2025 episode of “Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron” delivers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the NCAA Tournament Selection Sunday. Through candid interviews and robust discussions, Matt Jones and Myron Medcalf provide listeners with nuanced perspectives on team performances, seeding decisions, and the overarching dynamics that shape the tournament's competitive landscape. Whether you’re a die-hard basketball fan or a casual observer, this episode offers valuable insights into the complexities and fervor that define March Madness.

Transcript

[Matt Jones]

I can say to my new Samsung.

[Myron Metcalf]

Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3. Will that be cash or credit? Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion.

[Pat Kelsey]

That does the heavy lifting.

[Myron Metcalf]

So you can do you get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy.

[Matt Jones]

This is Matt and Myron the Podcast Jones.

[Myron Metcalf]

Myron Metcalf here on the Bracketology selection show, ESPN Radio. Myron, I'm excited about this. We're not gonna lie. Even though I'm a University of Kentucky guy. Yeah, we got a University of Louisville head coach that I actually like. Pat Kelsey is on the phone from the Louisville Cardinals. Had a great year in his first season at Louisville. Pat, first of all, thank you very much for coming. And I just want to, I want to ask you, I watched earlier this year, you got to Louisville, you had so energy you want ran around campus trying to encourage students to come to games. And by the end of the year, the yum center was packed. Louisville basketball fans were back engaged as they've been in a long time. How good does that have to feel on the eve of March Madness as to what your team has done so far?

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

Well, first of all, Matt, Myron, thanks so much for having me on. It's an honor to be here. But yeah, you know, it's, you know, one of the great honors of my professional career to help lift this city up some, you know, basketball and Louisville basketball. As you know, Matt in this city is really at the epicenter. It runs through the blood of the people and the citizens of this city. From the moment I got the job, when I would meet people out in the community, I mean, people would passionately tell you about how much the program means to them. They would tell you about their first game they went to and who they were with and how they share that, you know, with, with their father or their children. I mean, it's more than just the team in town. It kind of makes this place go around and makes it spin. And, you know, it's well documented that the last couple years haven't been great. And in a lot of ways you talk to people around here in the city was down, you know, there was just no down and you know, just to see and think and feel that you had a small part in helped lifting this city up, restoring that pride that they have in the Louisville basketball brand. I mean, heck, you guys know this. It's one of the most storied and tradition rich programs in the history of college basketball. And our guys, it meant a lot to them from day one. Even though they were from parts all over from other programs. We recruited heavily from the transfer portal. They went all in on being a Louisville Cardinal and taking the responsibility of trying to restore this place back to where it should be. And in a lot of ways we've done that and it's been something that we're proud of. But you know, the most important part of the season and hopefully the most magical part of this great season that we've had is still ahead of us. And we're excited about the opportunity.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, I live there and you have made a big difference in the city. And I as a citizen of Louisville, thank you for that, even though I'm a Kentucky fan. But I do have to ask, I think I can't believe I'm saying this about my rival, the Louisville Cardinals. I think you're under seated. You may not want to say it and I get it if you don't, but I feel like you deserve better than an eight seed. What do you think, man?

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

So, first of all, I just want to say how fortunate we are and excited we are about playing in the national tournament, representing our school in our city. You know, I'll be completely honest with you. Like watching the selection show, it was like you when that popped up, you know, it hurt a little bit. You know, you felt slighted a little bit. You know, it is what it is. At this point, you have the advantage of no choice. But you know, in my opinion, we should be playing a 12 or 11 seed. Every metric under the sun that you look at and all the experts, net 23, which would put us in, you know, a possible five seed range. Ken Palm, 23, you know, I mean, heck, fellas, you're Kentucky Fans. Since that Dec. 14 game, that's three months ago. Three months, we've lost two games. We went 18 and two in the ACC. We went to the conference championship game and lost to the number one team in the country. So it is what it is, you know, it, if anything, to a competitor, to our guys and to me, it's puts a little fire in your belly and gives you just a little edit, added little chip on your shoulder. But you know, we have to do a great job in preparation over the next couple days. I mean, obviously Creighton is an explosive team, a dangerous team, extremely well coached as you guys know, and we're excited about getting to work.

[Matt Jones]

Pat, I think we all saw Chucky Hepburn last year and we said, that's not really him. That's not the guy we all know he can be. He links up with you and your program, and suddenly Chucky looks like the guy that we all know he's supposed to be the potential All American, the elite talent that he is. How did you bring Chucky Hepburn back to bring elite to become a leader for this team?

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

Well, I mean, first of all, I do want to give, you know, coach, coach, guard in Wisconsin at the tip of the captain a ton of credit because, you know, they had a big part in him developing him into the player that he is today. And he was a championship player there. I think he made the, to win the Big Ten title maybe as a freshman sophomore. He's a winning player and comes from a winning program. And we tried hard to recruit winning players. Guys that were veteran, have high basketball IQs, that have won where they were at Chucky's. That what we really tried to do is just inject the ultimate confidence in him. You know, we. I'm a former point guard. I played at Xavier under the late Skip prosser. I missed 1,000 points by 874. So I wasn't the best point guard in the world. But, but, but we just, we like to say it's kind of point guard you here. And if you look at the success our point guards have had through our run as a head coach both at Winthrop, and the success we had there in the College of Charleston, we always had, you know, point guards that crushed it. We just gave him the ball and said, chucky, we give you the ball at seven at night. You just got to give it back to me safe and sound at 9 and just had him play with the ultimate confidence. And he's had a magical season. He's going to be a player as our entire roster is going to be. It's going to be a team that's revered and remembered forever around here for being part of what we're calling the revival.

[Myron Metcalf]

I'll get you out of here with this. The craziest thing is going to be, you know, I own a sports bar, Mirror in Lexington. Yeah, there's going to be a lot of red in there coming up. A lot of orange, too, with Tennessee. What about playing in Lexington, Pat? It's not a long drive. Your fans can come. That's got to be at least one good thing, right?

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

That's the silver lining, you know, I don't know if the committee said, okay, these guys deserve to be a 5C. We're in 8, we're going to keep them close. You know, I don't think they should try to manipulate that. If we're a five seed, make us think in five seed. But the silver lining is obviously we're right down the road. And my. My huge challenge to our unbelievable fan base. And I know you're a Kentucky fan and you guys have one of the most passionate fan bases in the country. I think you would agree as being a guy that lives definitely won this fan base is. Is in my opinion, the greatest. Obviously I'm biased, but, you know, we need, we need. I'm sending a big challenge out to Card Nation, who I think I've gotten a bunch of texts and calls from people that know me and somehow people have gotten hold of me that they probably shouldn't have my number. And they're telling me, you know, they're ticked off. And I said, oh, it's fine. It is what it is at this point. Now let's go do something about it. So we need coordination to get down to RUP and, and. And fill it up with red.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, Myron, I don't want to in my role, I don't want to like the Louisville coach, but I like this guy. I'm not going to lie to you. I really do. I respect, I respect what you've done there. And the other people around the country don't realize what it's like in the Bluegrass State with basketball in part. And a big part of that is you also. Congratulations, good luck, and I'll actually probably see in Lexington at some point.

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

Okay, man. Matt, Myron, thank you guys so much for having me on.

[Myron Metcalf]

Thank you, Cards.

[Matt Jones]

Appreciate it.

[Myron Metcalf]

Coach Pat Kelsey, 8 seed. They did. To me, that's the worst seating in the tournament. To me, they got sort of job the most in seating.

[Matt Jones]

What I love about what he said is if you're the committee and you're in that room and you said, okay, we gave them an eight seed, but we're going to put them in Lexington. He says, keep that, make us a five, make us a six, give us our true seed, rather than trying to manipulate the location because I don't think that's a fair consolation prize. You're still putting them in a tough.

[Myron Metcalf]

Matchup, their second round matchup. If they beat his Auburn, I mean, number one seed in the tournament, that's nuts.

[Matt Jones]

They've literally lost two games in three months.

[Myron Metcalf]

Yeah.

[Matt Jones]

And there aren't many teams in America that could match that.

[Myron Metcalf]

To me, they were a six. I was looking at it on my flight today and I thought, well, there might be a world they dropped us. I would have never. 7. I would have never thought. I would have never thought they were night. I just, I, you know, I, they, they don't deserve that. And granted the ACC is down, but as he said, they're 18 and two since they lost in Rup to Kentucky and one of those losses is to Duke. Like, like at some point you do have to say you got to give them some respect.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. And the Lexington location is not making up for what you did with the seating.

[Myron Metcalf]

And by the way, that's going to be. You want to talk about a hard ticket. Tennessee, Auburn and Louisville in Lexington, that's going to be an extremely difficult ticket for people to get. ESPN's Turn tournament challenge is the number one bracket game. New features, tools, animation, you can make your brackets get in the challenge. There'll be a men's challenge and a women's challenge. It is up now. Five straight days of analysis all through the site. It is all there. It's the ESPN Tournament Challenge, the number one place in the world to play your NCAA tournament brackets. More coaches, more analysis, more fun. Next on the Bracketology Selection show on ESPN Radio.

[Matt Jones]

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[Myron Metcalf]

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[Myron Metcalf]

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[Myron Metcalf]

It is the Men's Bracketology Selection show here on ESPN Radio, presented by Progressive Insurance. I almost said presented by Myron Metcalf. Although I feel like you could present it if you. If you want. I've been noticing during the breaks, you just keep studying this bracket. Are you. Are. Are you. Do you think overall, the committee did a good job?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah. I mean, they got to answer about North Carolina. I think. I think they have to answer.

[Myron Metcalf]

Is that the most egregious thing to you?

[Matt Jones]

I think it is.

[Myron Metcalf]

Even more than Texas.

[Matt Jones]

I think so. And I think you also have to answer to what Pat Kelsey was talking about with Louisville. Like, I don't understand. An eight seed for a team that has been that good for the last three months. That doesn't add up to me.

[Myron Metcalf]

Yeah, I understand that the North Carolina one just. I mean, what, one quad one win or something? I mean, it's like. It's like some absurdly low number, isn't it?

[Matt Jones]

Well, and it's. If you don't want conspiracy theorists, I don't know.

[Myron Metcalf]

Yeah. All right. We are now joined on the phone by the basketball coach after having Pat Kelsey. Last segment, we have Mark Pope from the University of Kentucky, my favorite coach in the tournament. Mark, you see the. It's. You see the brackets. This is your first year at Kentucky. There's still. I know you well enough to know there still has to be some excitement when you see the name pop up right there while watching the show.

[Mark Pope]

Come on, man. I love Selection Sunday.

[Myron Metcalf]

Me, too.

[Mark Pope]

Like, I'm, like, I'm just like a fan. I love it. Like, you know, we spent all morning kind of scouring the deal and reading the brackets and interested in us and interesting everybody else. And it's just. It's an experience like none other. So I love every second of it.

[Myron Metcalf]

You're going to Milwaukee. You'll play Troy and then one of three teams potentially in the second round. If you're able to get past Troy, tell me about just your process. I mean, there are now four teams in theory, you'll need to study just for this weekend. How do you guys on your staff go about doing that?

[Mark Pope]

Yeah, my staff was not Happy about that, actually, because that adds another, you know, that adds another 30 man hours, right, to having to prepare for four. But it's, you know, it's, it's an unbelievable bracket. Obviously, Troy is a terrific team that's got a very, very established identity and who they are and they, they do themselves very, very well. And then you have that, that triple crown, which you're like, I don't know who's coming out of that. It'll be really interesting to see who comes out of those three. And so, you know, the staff will get on that. Me and a small team will only spend our time on Troy and we'll move ahead and prepare like we've always prepared, and we just have a couple extra days to do it.

[Matt Jones]

Mark, every press conference, you say what coaches are supposed to say when they're dealing with injuries. You kind of give the next man up speech. But I've wondered about practice and just what it has been like to prepare for games with all the injuries your team has dealt with. How difficult has it been this season with all the uncertainty because of injuries?

[Mark Pope]

Well, you know, our Sid told me today that we have the 355th best minutes continuity in the country.

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

364 teams.

[Mark Pope]

You know, I'm a metrics guy, guys, and I always think I'm doing the metrics, getting the numbers right. I got to get that number right. And so, but, but, but it also gives some great context. And this is the important part for me, the context it gives is, you know, I think about what our guys have done and we've talked about this, but for our guys to win eight top 15 games, is it eight or nine? I can't even remember the number, but I know that we've won more top 15 games than any team in the history of the University of Kentucky, which, doing anything in the history University of Kentucky is like, it's almost unfathomable with the teams we've had here. And then to be tied with two other teams in the history of college basketball. What our guys have done is incredible. But then you think about the context of how our guys have had to adjust on the fly in games. Losing guys, a day before game, losing guys, guys coming back, but trying to work their way back into the rotation. It just is a credit to our players in terms of their dedication to each other and their resilience and their ability as students to learn that we've been able to survive the way we had. Now, with that said, I think, you know, there's usually the law of averages. And so we should be 100% healthy through this whole NCAA tournament. That's my expectation.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, on that point, you. Lamont Butler was out for the SEC tournament after the beginning of the first game. I mean, do you expect him to be healthy or ready to play for the ncaa?

[Mark Pope]

Yes. Yep. Yep. And, and listen, you know, Lamont probably could have rolled out there. I don't think he would have been super effective. And so there was some calculation. I mean, you know, like I've said this before, I'm not a load management guy at all, but at some point you just have to have some sense to what you do. And so it was just the right decision. But we expect him to congeo. He's made huge progress in the last 48 hours and we expect that to continue. And with this particular issue, it's something that we feel 100% confident he can be game ready.

[Myron Metcalf]

I'm interested just in your philosophy on. I was there Friday night after the loss to Alabama, very poor second half performance. Do you, I mean, what do you do at that point? Is this a. We just got to turn the page because now the real stuff starts. Do you. I mean, it'd be one thing if it was a regular season. It's postseason. How do you deal with that after what I know you were disappointed in how they play.

[Mark Pope]

Yeah. So I'm a terrible turn the page guy. Something I've been working on my whole career as a player and a coach. And when I say that, what I mean is like, like I have to go through a grieving process. Like a five step grieving process. And so does our team. Like that's what we really do. I know that sounds, maybe that sounds like a little too big, but it's a real thing and you can almost map out the steps. The trick is, can you go through the grieving process? Well, and we also believe, like I don't. I'm not a. You know, I just think every experience is a gift to us to learn and grow. And, and I think if we don't use that debacle of a second half for all the reasons. Listen, I'm also. Facts. Right. There were a thousand reasons why that should have gone wrong in the second half. Right. So I'm also there. But if we don't, if we don't take that experience and make it into something bigger than it actually was, then we're wasting experience. And so our Friday night was really brutal and our Saturday morning was super ugly and super brutal. But it was all part of the grieving process, and then we resolved, you know, then we came to some resolution. We did it as a team. And now, because we went through the grieving process intensely and well and good together, I think we take away some really, really solid lessons from that game, like we have from every game that we played this season. And now I think we're unified than ever and we're more committed than ever. So I don't know where turning the page fits in there, but that's the process we go through, and we're. We're believers in it. Our guys have demonstrated over and over throughout the season about how they respond to setbacks, and I expect we'll do the same thing here.

[Matt Jones]

Mark, I know you are focused on Troy, but the committee says they don't care about storylines. Yet. In the West Region, there is a world where Arkansas advances past Kansas and St. John's beats Omaha, and John Calaberi ends up facing Rick Patino in the second round. What do you think about that potential? Yes.

[Myron Metcalf]

Coach P was. Coach P. Do you think he liked that matchup, Mark?

[Mark Pope]

So I'm not going to be. This is not going to be a popular take. I understand that. I'm. I'm like, why can't we be in that grouping?

[Myron Metcalf]

Yes.

[Matt Jones]

I love it.

[Mark Pope]

And then. And then I just. I just. I just, you know, like, on a personal. Yeah. So. So I'm just like, this what the NCAA tournament is supposed to be. It's supposed to be about all the Dr. And so we're gonna have plenty of drama. I'm not. I'm not complaining at all. Like, we're gonna have all the drama we can possibly handle. But, you know, I just. I love it. I love the storylines. I love it. It's good for the game. It's, you know, and, you know, listen, you don't come to Kentucky if you're trying to run from the smoke. And. And so I know Coach P definitely feels that way. I'm sure. I'm sure Coach Cal feels that way. It's like, bring it and let's go, man. Let's, you know, let's. Let's go. And so it's pretty exciting.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, listen, Mark, good luck in the NCAA Tournament. As a fellow Kentucky guy, I know it's special that you are getting to do this for the first time as the coach. And I'll be in Milwaukee and see you then.

[Mark Pope]

Matt. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate all you guys do. Thank you so much.

[Myron Metcalf]

There you go. Mark Pope. I love that answer, Byron, don't you? I Love the answer of his. I, I, I wish we could be a part of it.

[Matt Jones]

I love it. Let me ask you a question. Who are Kentucky fans rooting for in that game?

[Myron Metcalf]

Oh, Patino. No, no.

[Matt Jones]

Real.

[Myron Metcalf]

No. I mean the 180 flip that Kentucky fans who just three years ago could not stand Rick Patino and loved Cal. The way it is flipped and now it's the opposite is like a psychology, you know. You know, a psychology paper ready for someone to do.

[Matt Jones]

Here's what I don't like. I think both Cal and Patina are huge storylines in this tournament. You lose one of them maybe in the second round. I'd prefer them maybe meeting later on. But it's gonna be a fascinating game. Potential.

[Myron Metcalf]

It is going to be a fascinating game. And I will say, I don't know, is Providence. Is that Thursday or Friday? That's Thursday. I was about to say if it was Friday, you know what the Sunday late afternoon window would have been? It'll be Saturday, so it probably will be. They don't. They do one like on a Saturday night.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Myron Metcalf]

That will be your Saturday night game. The winner of Kansas and Arkansas against St. John's you can just go ahead and write that one down. We've got more coaches coming, we got more analysis. Plus the chair of the selection committee has to answer to Myron Metcalf. That's right. It's all next here on the Bracketology selection show right here on ESPN Radio.

[Matt Jones]

Matt and Myron, the podcast. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like, you know to check the Jumbotron first before attempting to eat a stack of supreme nachos in one bite. Now you're just a meme that everyone shares on game day. Checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

[Myron Metcalf]

I was never really a runner the way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life, even with cancer.

[Matt Jones]

Join bank of America and helping Anne's cause.

[Myron Metcalf]

Give if you can@b of a.com supportan what would you like the power to do? References to charitable organizations is not an endorsement by bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025 Meyer Metcalf, Matt Jones here on the Bracketology selection show on ESPN Radio, presented by Progressive Insurance. The coaches just keep coming. Had Pat Kelsey. Had Mark Pope, Now Phil Martelli Jr. Head coach of Bryant, who is in his second year at the school, makes the NCAA tournament. For Phil, I'm sure there had to be some excitement when you are sitting there in the room and it pops up and you see your team's name. That's the first time that's happened for you as a head coach. And you get Tom Izzo. What was that like?

[Bubba Cunningham]

Well, first off, you said. You said, you know, Pat Kelsey, Louisville, Mark Pope at Kentucky, and now Phil Martelli Jr. At Bryant. That reminds me of the old Sesame Street. Like, one of these things is not like. But no, it's unbelievable. There's something about Selection Sunday. I think it's the nostalgia of being a kid and having the old newspaper bracket and a pen or a pencil and trying to write down the brackets. This is before you could print them out and get them as easily accessible as you can now. That always gets me going. And then for it to be Michigan State and Coach Izzo. Coach Izzo and my dad are very close friends. He is something of a mentor to me. And ironically, we talked. He called me on Thursday after we had won on Tuesday night in our semifinals to wish me luck. He was one of the first people to call me when I officially got the job here. You know, wishes, wish me luck and give me some advice. And he joked about this on Thursday and said, I talked to your dad yesterday. And I told him, I said, you know, it's one of these brackets has Michigan State playing Bryant, and that's gonna really suck for your dad. I said, why is that? He said, because he's gonna have to root against his son. And I don't know what the rooting interest will be we'll find. But no, it's an honor to even be on there. An honor to be, you know, going up against him on the sideline. When I was at Delaware, we won our championship in 2014, and we actually played them out in Spokane. Not a better man in college basketball, not a better coach in college basketball, you know, and certainly we'll have to be ready to play, because I know they will be prepared.

[Matt Jones]

Well, your father is in that conversation, too. Started his coaching journey 30 years ago, obviously, the memorable run to the Elite 8 in 04 at St. Joseph's there was a really cool moment, man, after you sealed that conference tournament championship where you go over and you hug your dad. And you two share that embrace. What was that like, that moment for you?

[Bubba Cunningham]

Yeah, it's kind of incredible because I've been on the other side of that so many times with him and, you know, to walk over and see. I joked about this yesterday, but it's pretty true. Like, we're similar in that as we're heading towards each other, I think we could both see the emotion in each other's faces, and we kind of let it get right to the tear duct, but never out of the tear duct. And, you know, you're holding it back, but, you know, there was kind of that look of like, you know, I know. And, you know, like, you know, we're pretty emotional right now, and, you know, the pride that I've. The pride that I've always had for him and his career and, you know, what he's done and to be able to see that, you know, back from him is I could never, ever, ever put into words what that means.

[Matt Jones]

Barry Evans comes over from Saint Bonaventure. He becomes the America east newcomer of the year in the tournament championship game. He gives you 19 and 7. How important has he been to this team?

[Bubba Cunningham]

He's huge. And the reality is, like, Barry doesn't even know. Like, so many of these guys now think that they are the greatest player of all time. Barry, like, every time I tell him how great he can be or great he is, he gives you that look of like, are you sure? You know? And all these other guys are like, they're looking at you. When you tell them like, hey, make a layup, they're like, I don't need to make a layup. I'm the greatest player ever. You know, like, that's. That's just the day and age we're in, I think. But Barry is. He's just such a. He's a great player, but he's an awesome, awesome, awesome person. And he's worked really hard. You know, we've really tried to pump him with confidence because we know what he can be, and. And he's got all the tools and, you know, he's got it and. And he cares about the right things. Like, he's just about winning, you know, Heck, there's times I have to, like, yell at him to shoot the ball more because he's trying to get other guys shots and make plays for other people because he is a great passer. But, yeah, he was somebody we targeted right from the get go in the portal and really pushed hard and were able to get him.

[Myron Metcalf]

Phil Martelli Jr Bryant, head coach starts Friday against Michigan State. Should be a great battle for you guys. And congratulations. The first one is always the most exciting, so enjoy it.

[Bubba Cunningham]

Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having me on.

[Myron Metcalf]

There you go. Phil Martelli Jr. Always. You know, the 15 seeds, you never think they have a chance. And I can tell you with a little team called Saint Peters a few years ago that they do have a chance. Meyer Metcalf.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, that still gives you nightmares, doesn't it?

[Myron Metcalf]

I don't even when I think of that stupid peacock, I get upset with the guy. What was the kid. What was the kid's name? The one that. Doug Edert.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Myron Metcalf]

I think he went to Bryant after. Did.

[Matt Jones]

He did go to Bryant. I think he did go to Bryant. What's funny about that is St. Peter's beat other teams. But people remember the Kentucky game to the elite. Nobody remembers that. They beat.

[Myron Metcalf]

They beat Kentucky, they beat Murray State and then they beat Purdue.

[Matt Jones]

No one remembers that.

[Myron Metcalf]

They just remember Kentucky. They just remember. Remember the other. Okay, I want to give you a stat I just saw to go in terms of the teams on the bubble. West Virginia did not make the tournament. North Carolina did. There are 111 mock brackets that people do. Did you know that there were 111.

[Matt Jones]

There are 111. I know there were a bunch.

[Myron Metcalf]

There was 111 mock brackets. West Virginia in the final mock bracket from every mocker was in all hundred and eleven. Yeah, but then they didn't make the tournament. Do you. Is that egregious? 111 of 111 mock brackets. They're in and then they don't make is egregious.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, I think West Virginia down to stretch of the regular season. They did. I go think go five and six in their last 11 games. But North Carolina was one in 12 in quad one opportunities. One in 12, one quad one victory. So. So to me, you have to explain how they got in. And here's my problem, Matt. The metrics are more favorable to them than they actually performed, I think this season. Right, but it's not consistent then. Because if we're going to talk metrics and wins, then West Virginia has to be.

[Myron Metcalf]

All right, well, let me give you ESPN's Friend for Ship for Schiller.

[Matt Jones]

I love it. What's France AM?

[Myron Metcalf]

You know, Fran's a big, big 12 guy. Yes, this is pretty strong tweet.

[Matt Jones]

I'm not surprised.

[Myron Metcalf]

In my wildest dreams, I never thought they would do this to West Virginia. But again, as smart as these People are. It always comes down to who's in the room with you deciding. It's always been that way.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Myron Metcalf]

Shots fired there from. Well, from Fran for sure.

[Matt Jones]

We're going to have Bubba Cunningham. And listen, at the end of the day, that's something that is going to be a thing attached to this. The North Carolina ad is the chair of the committee. North Carolina, by most accounts, doesn't have the resume to get in. What do you say to that?

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, I mean, he's going to say, right, that he wasn't in the room.

[Matt Jones]

Exactly. And I'm not doing conspiracy theory, but what I am saying is I think that is a really bad look when I think if you put West Virginia next to North Carolina, a West Virginia team that beat Gonzaga, a West Virginia team that beat Arizona, a West Virginia team that beat Kansas and Iowa State.

[Myron Metcalf]

But who did North Carolina beat?

[Matt Jones]

Nobody. I mean, that's the reality, though.

[Myron Metcalf]

I mean, they beat nobody.

[Matt Jones]

They beat nobody.

[Myron Metcalf]

Nobody.

[Matt Jones]

So I think that's the thing is like, what is the justification for a North Carolina team whose best non conference win was probably ucla?

[Myron Metcalf]

Can I read you another comment? This is from Louisville, Congressman Morgan McGarvey. This is a United States Congressman. Okay.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, they're getting involved now.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, let me explain to you why this is important.

[Matt Jones]

Yeah.

[Myron Metcalf]

United states Congressman Morgan McGarvey is one of the couple of people in the House of Representatives that is involved in the attempts to regulate, like, the future of the ncaa. Okay.

[Matt Jones]

So this matters.

[Myron Metcalf]

He is one. There are a couple people in the Senate and a couple people in the House from each party that are part of it. Democrat Morgan McGarvey is one of them doing it. He's also from Louisville. He just tweeted UNC got in and Louisville is an 8 seed. No wonder the NCAA wants Congress to regulate it.

[Matt Jones]

Oh, man. Oh, man. That. See, that's beyond shots fired. That's like, wait a minute. We could actually do something about this.

[Myron Metcalf]

I mean, that's the people that in theory do something about it.

[Matt Jones]

It. To me, if you just put their resume next to West Virginia's, there's no way that North Carolina gets in over West Virginia.

[Myron Metcalf]

Did you ever think there would be a segment where I would read you tweets from both Fran for Schiller and United States?

[Matt Jones]

No, but if anybody was going to do it, I think it would be you. You think I would be.

[Myron Metcalf]

I mean, that's actually. I mean, that is someone who's literally. That's what they're working on. On just interesting. Right?

[Matt Jones]

But. But it's beyond interesting because they're going to have to account for this because there's no way in my opinion and a lot of people's opinions that North Carolina is in and West Virginia is somehow out of this field. That part doesn't make sense. Indiana, a team that was pushing for its third tournament birth in four years, even though Mike Woodson is resigned. Yeah, they deserved it more than North Carolina.

[Myron Metcalf]

Well, they got in. You could tune into NBA action. Tomorrow night the warriors host the Nuggets, presented by. Indeed. Coverage begins at 9:30 Eastern on ESPN Radio in the ESPN app. Remember, the women's selection show will occur here in 18 minutes on this very station. Right as soon as we are done. So the women's bracket will be announced then and you will be able to hear now we are going to have the NCAA tournament selection chair, Bubba Cunningham, who I can see right now is on my television. I guess he's going to get off the television and he will end up being on the radio with us to sit and look at Myron Metcalf. Well, he won't be able to look at him because he's on the radio, but to answer his questions, we will do that. That's next here on the Men's Bracketology Selection show on Matt and Myron.

[Matt Jones]

The podcast. It's time for basketball and Uber Eats is dropping deals on game day favorites to keep you locked in on the action. Like when you're craving a buzzer beater but also buffalo wings or when an upset makes you want to ugly cry into a pizza. And right now Uber Eats has game day deals from McDonald's, Popeyes, Pizza Hut, Wendy's and hundreds more local favorites so you can keep your eyes on the ball and your hands on a hamburger. Order now only on Uber Eats. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

[Myron Metcalf]

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[Myron Metcalf]

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[Myron Metcalf]

Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. This final segment of the Men's Bracketology Selection show on ESPN Radio. I gotta tell you, I think it's flown by. I feel like we just started the show, but maybe that proves Myron's point of how Excited I am to do said show over the years is that.

[Matt Jones]

This is your favorite day of your life.

[Myron Metcalf]

Okay, well, now stop with that.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, like, it's not a favorite.

[Myron Metcalf]

Day of my life.

[Matt Jones]

I mean, like once a year it is.

[Myron Metcalf]

It is a very positive, exciting day.

[Matt Jones]

It's like this, your birthday and Christmas.

[Myron Metcalf]

I have other days than my birthday.

[Matt Jones]

Those are three very big days for everybody.

[Myron Metcalf]

Those are three very good days. We're going to have the NCAA tournament committee chairman, Bubba Cunningham, the UNC athletic director. He will be joining us here in just a minute or two. We are talking about the NCAA tournament bracket with lots of interesting storylines. 1 seeds, 2 seeds under seating overseeding. Myron, one thing we forget is what a good four days are coming up. I mean, Thursday, Friday, favorite days of the year for sports for you, or is that. Do you have one you like better?

[Matt Jones]

No, I think it's the best day, the best stretch in sports, I think for sure.

[Myron Metcalf]

Where do you watch them? Do you go to the games? Do you. Do you sit at your house? Do you go to a bar? What is it? What is it that you do?

[Matt Jones]

I used to like going to the games, but you miss so much at a site. So I like being at home with all the TVs.

[Myron Metcalf]

Do I have both? One both? Okay, so we have two folks from the NCAA tournament committee joining us. Bubba Cunningham, the unc, the chairman, the UNC athletic director, and Keith Gill. He is the commissioner of the Sunbelt Conference. Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining. Bubba, I'll start with. With you and Field. When you were deciding between Auburn, Duke as the number one seeds, what was that? You know, Duke obviously beat Auburn. Auburn's finished a little slowly at the end of the year, but what was the ultimate deciding factor?

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Well, I think ultimately you're right. All three. All four, actually, when you, when you throw in Houston and Florida as well, those are four outstanding number one seeds. And I think just. The SEC had such an outstanding year from beginning to end. And I think at the end of the day and the end of our voting, Auburn just carried the day because they were the best team in the best league. And Duke, as you said, beat them head to head back in November. Duke had an outstanding year as well. And we also. They were regular season champs and tournament champs. Houston, regular season tournament, Florida wins the tournament. But I just thought, we all thought at the end of the day that Auburn deserved to be the number one and Duke sitting there at number two. And again, Houston and Florida, four outstanding number one seeds this year.

[Matt Jones]

Bob I think I've covered the NCAA tournament almost 20 years and I understand the integrity attached to this process. There are a lot of folks who look at North Carolina as a team in the field and they say they don't feel like they belong, especially compared to a team like West Virginia with a lot of high quality wins. Obviously, as the athletic director there, you didn't participate in the discussion, but how do you respond to some of the backlash attached to North Carolina being included in the field of 68?

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Yeah, I do think the hardest thing about any of these tournaments any year is trying to pick the last three or four teams that are in the tournament and the last three or four that are out. And you indicated our principles and our procedures don't allow me to participate. In fact, it doesn't allow me to even be engaged in the conversation, which is why Keith is joining me here today on the race radio to talk about how those things work and maybe what the discussions were about Carolina and why the committee thought we were in because I had no input into to that process.

[Myron Metcalf]

Yeah, Keith, what was the. I mean, ultimately, people, you look at it and you get with North Carolina in West Virginia, who in the bracket predictors everyone had in. What made Carolina the pick for you instead of or for the committee instead of West Virginia?

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

Yeah, that's a great question. I think when you look at Carolina's full body of work, obviously everyone focuses on that quad one record, you know, that one in 12. But as the committee looked at it, they also saw they were eight.

[Mark Pope]

No.

[Coach Pat Kelsey]

In quad two, they looked at a really strong strength of record metric, really strong wins above bubble metric, a strong net. And when they took all those things into consideration, they really felt like North Carolina kind of deserve that last spot in the tournament.

[Myron Metcalf]

Keith? Well, I don't know which one of you wants to answer this, but I'll. I'll let you all decide. Cause I know it's a difficult situation. So I look at it and I see a Louisville team get seated number eight, which is, I thought, a little low. And that would make it look like the ACC is a league, may not have been because of the other teams as strong, but then North Carolina gets in. That's kind of inconsistent to me because on the one hand it makes the ACC not look as strong. On the other it does. I mean, how do we. How do we explain Louisville seating and then with what happened with Carolina as well?

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Well, I do think that we had a strong league. I think the ACC was a strong league this year. And I think Obviously, Duke bears that out, being a number one. And then, you know, the bracketing or the seating process, we vote the teams in, we scrub them against each other. And in this particular year, we had Louisville scrubbed at that position, we had Clemson at theirs. And I do think the overall league is a strong league. And I think when you consider how many teams did get in, you know, Carolina ended up getting in, as Keith described, it's a strong league, but, you know, there's an awful lot of teams that are sitting on that bubble. And when you get down to the bottom or the bottom of the teams that are going to be selected, you're trying to separate teams that have, quite frankly, a lot of warts. And this year, you know, Carolina got in. West Virginia was the team that didn't. And Keith, you know, mentioned that Carolina only got in because Memphis ended up beating UAB in the championship, where Carolina would have been left out.

[Myron Metcalf]

One more thing on the Louisville part, they're going to be playing in Lexington, so they may end up, if they were to win their first game, playing Auburn in Lexington, likely with a massive home court advantage in a situation like that. Did that. Is that something you all considered at all?

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Yeah, we did talk about it, but with 14 teams coming in from the SEC, the number one thing we want to do in trying to bracket 14 teams, because once you get beyond nine, you're going to have multiple teams that may have to play before the Sweet 16. So we didn't want to exceed four teams in any one region and that made us move a few teams. And the other thing we didn't want to do is move anyone off the line that they were seated on. So we had to move a few things geographically and at that point, Louisvilles fell into Lexington and we knew we had Auburn there. But again, with the integrity of the bracket and the seating process, we thought it was the appropriate thing to do.

[Matt Jones]

Bubba. Obviously, injuries have been a major storyline in this process, but. But after the brackets were announced, Iowa State's TJ Altzelberger comes out and says Keyshawn Gilbert will not be available. They had made that decision. Was the committee aware of if. Of that information and if you weren't aware, how would you have changed potentially the Iowa State seating if you had known Keyshawn Gilbert would be out for the NCAA tournament?

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Yeah, we were not aware of that information, but we do try to get as much player availability as possible. Quite frankly, we didn't realize that Tyrese Hunter wasn't going to play today for Memphis, and we didn't factor that into the equation. So you have some players that are probable, some we're not sure. We do the best we can to get the information, and we rely on the schools and the conferences to provide that. And it's unfortunate he can't play. But we still think we have Iowa State seated very appropriately. They had an outstanding year. They played tenacious defense. They're a big team. We've watched them plenty of times, and I think Iowa State will have a great tournament.

[Myron Metcalf]

Bubba Cunningham, NCAA Tournament Committee chairman Keith Gill, commissioner of the Sunbelt Conference, also a vice chair of the ncaa, thank you all very much for your time and enjoy getting some rest after what I'm sure was a busy week.

[Phil Martelli Jr.]

Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Bubba Cunningham]

Thank you.

[Myron Metcalf]

There you go. It's interesting situation. I mean, they the, the question everybody wants to ask is about the last team in and it's where the chair is. That's kind of a, you know, kind of a delicate dance. Did he get the answer you wanted?

[Matt Jones]

My problem is you can point to whatever you want to point to. You can say the metrics.

[Myron Metcalf]

That's true, though, right?

[Matt Jones]

Yeah, but it just, it's not a good look. I will say the thing about Tyrese Hunter, Tyrese Hunter of Memphis was in a walking boot yesterday. So that is definitely something the committee should have had questions about. Going into deliberations.

[Myron Metcalf]

You were a little hard, but I thought you'd be harder. I thought you were going to come in. Just.

[Matt Jones]

I'm not going to be a conspiracy theorist, but I. It's not a great look, right?

[Myron Metcalf]

Yeah, well, it's not. And you know, what are you going to do? On some level, I, I, I thought West Virginia should be in, but that's the way it goes. I say this every year. I do this. This is always a treat. Thank you all very much. It was awesome to be here with you, Mom. It's great being in the same room to do a show. We don't get to do that a lot. And thank you to ESPN for always giving me a chance to do this. I was Kid Myers. It actually was good. It's a great year. So it was very nice to be here.

[Matt Jones]

Thanks for listening to Matt and Myron the podcast. You can listen to the show live every Sunday morning at 10:00am Eastern on ESPN Radio, the ESPN app, and on SiriusXM Channel 80. Matt and Myron, the Podcast.

[Myron Metcalf]

Are you ready to build your company's dream team? Just like in sports, finding skilled players is essential for success. With Robert Half's winning combination of specialized recruiting professionals and award winning AI. We'll help you find the MVPs and key role players who will have you hanging banners in the rafters. Because in business it's all about having the experienced team on on your side. At Robert Half We Know Talent. Visit roberthalf. Com today.