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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Matt Jones
This is Matt and Myron, the podcast Big day of sports today. You got the final round of the US Open, Sam Burns, Adam Scott in the final group. You got College World Series right now, Reds and Tigers about to play at noon. You got the FIFA Club World cup yet? No NBA game unfortunately, but you can tune in tomorrow night for game five of the NBA finals. Thunderholts the Pacers presented by Indeed. Coverage begins at 7:30 Eastern on ESPN radio. On the ESPN app, it's Sunday morning. Matt Meyer and Mark Kester, ESPN radio play by play announcer is on the call for the game. Mark I want to start with just atmosphere for these first four games. I mean these, the Thunder have kind of been known as having an amazing atmosphere and then we've seen this atmosphere in Indianapolis has been awesome as well, even though the country maybe hasn't gotten as into it with the ratings, etc. And in terms of in arena atmospheres, how's this compared for you to series of the last decade?
- [01:34]
Aaron Goldhammer
Matt and Hammer, Good morning and happy Father's Day to all the fathers out there, as I like to call it, Happy FaceTime Father's Day having been blessed to cover the NBA finals the last 21 years. You know, we always get to this point of the season and the crowds are electric wherever you are, especially in the classic buildings. You know, in Boston the last few years and in Los Angeles when Lakers were playing great. And if you're old enough to remember the Michael Jordan Chicago years, I mean the old building was off the charts and the new building, pretty sweet too. But there's something a little extra special with fan bases who've had to wait a long time like Indiana, 25 years and Oklahoma City, you know, had been about 15 years but with a new team and a new excitement here. So I always try to lift up the headphones just a little bit during the game, especially when things are getting hot. And I can't believe how ear splitting both buildings have been actually kind of happy I have the headphones because it is, it is loud in these places. These fan bases are, are two really.
- [02:35]
Mark Kester
Incredible ones Kusty, what changed for the Pacers in game four when maybe they realized that they were a few minutes away from getting real close to winning an NBA title?
- [02:47]
Aaron Goldhammer
Yeah, you know, I think it was Oklahoma City. I mean, that defense just turned it up. We hadn't really seen it in the fourth quarters or in the second halves, you know, because Indiana had, you know, figured out how to speed them up. And it just feels like that will just kind of change. And it changed so quickly. And you know, all credit to Shay Gildis Alexander for getting it going on the offensive end and a ton of credit for Lou Dort, who probably doesn't get enough of it. He came into the game with about, I think it was like nine and a half, 10 minutes left in the game and that guy just, you know, starts blowing up screens and fighting through screens. And it was kind of that OKC defense that we'd seen much of the year. And it was, you know, it was a moment lost for Indiana, you know, Ben Mather and kind of the poster child of missing three free throws, you know, with about 20 odd seconds to go. It's just. You're right, they were so close. I'm wrapping my head around. Indiana is going to go up three games to one, you know, up 10 late, third up seven or whatever. It was headed to the fourth quarter. And then OKC just, you know, part of the great part of this series is how close these guys are and you know, in ability and to make that adjustment and grab momentum like that was, you know, impressive for OKC to really stop Indiana, force them not only into three point shots, but three point shots where they don't really like it. You know, they live in the corners, which means they're driving and kicking. And in this case, it was a lot of ISO because of that Oklahoma City defense. And they took a lot of those threes from the top and from the wings, you know, where they don't necessarily like to get those shots. So I credit Oklahoma City down 31 to really slow down Indiana there.
- [04:33]
Matt Jones
I feel left out by the way, I mean, Mark Kier calls Aaron Goldhammer Hammer, and then Aaron calls Mark Casty. I don't have a nickname. There's no, like Matt, you know, Matt Jones. You got Casty and Hammer. Like you two are the best buddies. That's fine. I'll just sit here and have the Cleveland thing.
- [04:50]
Aaron Goldhammer
Matt, you know, I. I lived in Cleveland for a couple of years, probably before Aaron Hammer was born. But I might have to go Jonesy.
- [04:57]
Matt Jones
From now on, I'll Take Jonesy. Yeah, whatever. I just want. I just want to be part of the group.
- [05:03]
Aaron Goldhammer
Shake.
- [05:03]
Matt Jones
Il just Alexander, you know, he was here at Kentucky, and I. And when he. I was telling Aaron before a couple hours ago, he didn't even start here. When he first got here, I mean, he was in a recruiting class of five guys. He was the lowest ranked of all of them. Four of them were McDonald's all Americans. He was the one that wasn't. When the season started, he was the eighth man. And then by the end of the year, he's probably the best player on the team. And it was an amazing transformation watching him go from 8th man to. To best player on the team. You've watched that transformation go in the NBA from solid bench player, turn starter in LA to Oklahoma City. I never imagined this could happen. Did you?
- [05:48]
Aaron Goldhammer
No, because I remember, you know, I've been very fortunate to call the Champions Classic, I think, every year since it started in 2011. And you correct me, Jonesy, if I'm wrong. I was like, Kevin. Kevin Knox was the big guy, right. P.J. washington was big player one in Gabriel.
- [06:04]
Matt Jones
Yes. And then there was a guy named Quad A Green who started at point guard over him. That was. That was.
- [06:10]
Aaron Goldhammer
That's right.
- [06:10]
Matt Jones
And now you've got this. It's unbelievable.
- [06:13]
Aaron Goldhammer
It really is. And, you know, it's a testament to Shea, really. And some guys, you know, are just late bloomers, I guess. I mean, I don't think he's ever really, you know, felt that, you know, he couldn't play to this ability. But I think his game is so suited to the NBA, his body type and length and strength and IQ that, you know, sometimes, especially in the one and done era, you don't get a chance to see these guys over seasons and develop and, you know, all credit to okc. Look, we knew the Clippers were at the back end of putting together, you know, the super teams, which was, you know, the thing of the 2010s, and, you know, they wanted Paul, George, Kawhi Leonard, and they got George and paid a steep price. I don't know if they realized they were trading an mvp. Certainly they couldn't have, but they knew they were trading a really good player who actually was opening eyes, you know, as a rookie in Los Angeles. And, you know, not only did Sam Presti get him, he got a whole bunch of draft picks. And I just think development is so underrated in the NBA at all levels. You know, guys who come in, you know, low first round, early second round, and two Three years later, these guys are polished players. I mean, we're seeing two fruits of the undrafted variety of Alex Caruso on Oklahoma City and TJ McConnell on Indiana. So, you know, it's getting to the right team, it's getting to the right development guys. And then for Shea, who's, you know, a high level player and a first rounder, you know, to unlock something, and they certainly have done that here.
- [07:47]
Mark Kester
If you had to guess, Cassidy, which it's Hammer here, which, which bench do you think will have the bigger impact in the series moving forward?
- [07:59]
Aaron Goldhammer
Yeah, you know, the easy answer for me and with the traditional answer would be the one that has more home games and that would be Oklahoma City. And then I add on top of that, you know, both teams are incredibly deep and I don't think we've even seen, you know, the full fruits of what OKC's bench has done this year. Certainly Alex Caruso has, you know, Casen Wallace was, you know, yo yoed in the lineup as he was a starter and now he's going to come off the bench and I assume he will again. We'll find out. But Aaron Wiggins hasn't played to his best. Isaiah Joe has showed flashes. Playing more Kenrich Williams, you know, certainly was a benefit the other night. So I'm probably going to go OKC in a series. Guys, I don't know if you're dealing with the same thing I'm dealing with, but you think, you know, or you have an inkling, you know, and then the game happens and you realize you don't know, you know, and I have no idea what to expect tomorrow night because you just expect two, two, home team, pivotal fifth. You know, Oklahoma City has the advantage and yet both these teams had tremendous fourth quarter comebacks on the road at different times in this series.
- [09:04]
Matt Jones
Mark, I'll get you out of here with this one. We're used to pretty much all NBA Finals having like definitive people in the game that everyone in basketball and sports fans know, whether it be, you know, LeBron, Steph Curry, but even guys like Giannis, Jokic, Tatum. Part of what makes this weird to me is Shea probably deserves to be in that group now, but people are hesitant to do it. And then no one in the Pacers is coming in the playoffs. I don't know if anybody would have had one of them in the top 15 players. Do you think that's part of how we don't really know what to do? We just have never seen any of these guys in these situations. And it's so different than what other NBA Finals are like.
- [09:51]
Aaron Goldhammer
Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. And Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam probably deserve more attention throughout the season, you know, on a really good team and don't get it. And obviously we've talked a lot about Oklahoma City, but to me, as just a basketball fan, and maybe there's not enough of us, you know, just, just want to watch good, really good basketball, not good basketball, but really good high level basketball. I have found this NBA Finals so refreshing of any of the other 21 that I've been able to cover up close. And maybe it's the newness for all the guys coming into it to be at this level, you know, maybe it's the youth of most of the guys on this team to experience it for the first time. And it's kind of refreshing to deal with guys who haven't been there, done that. And I just hope, you know, as low rated as it, you know, might be from a television standpoint that I've said all along, and I hope it'll be true if we could ever get a 2, 2 series with a pivotal fifth game with some exciting games that's going to bring everybody in and we'd love to have a game on a Sunday right, where, you know, everybody, everybody's off. But all right, let's let, you know, everyone watch golf today at the U.S. open. And it's almost, I mean, Monday Night Football. Is there any bigger thing? I know it's not the NFL that's going to rate, you know, you know, every time you play, but maybe a Monday night game, five to two, all marbles, you know, maybe that's what brings everybody. And I hope so because it's been, it's been a lot of fun to watch. And I hope we get a classic.
- [11:26]
Matt Jones
Tomorrow where they watch it. They're going to listen to it right here on ESPN Radio. I'll be, I'm going to be driving tomorrow night, so I will listen to you. Game, game five begins at 7:30 Eastern. The coverage. Mark Kester, thank you very much for your time.
- [11:40]
Aaron Goldhammer
Pressure's on now, Jonesy. I got to come through.
- [11:42]
Matt Jones
Be listening. Mark, don't make any screw ups, all right? I appreciate it. When we come back, baseball, you know, when history's here, you don't always realize it. Sometimes it's in your face and you don't realize. But Aaron Goldhammer knows history because he's watching it every day. We'll explain that. And then what happens when you Play a game and no one knows what channel it's on. I'm dealing with that right now. This is Sunday morning on ESPN Radio. Matt and Myron, the podcast.
- [12:18]
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- [13:36]
Matt Jones
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- [13:45]
Aaron Goldhammer
You're.
- [13:46]
Mark Kester
You can even target buyers by job.
- [13:47]
Matt Jones
Title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. That's right, Lil George Strait. They call me the Fireman. They call him the Hammer. They don't call me anything. It's Sunday morning here on ESPN Radio. Matt Jones, Aaron Goldhammer. I'm sitting here watching. So I was, I was looking at my little Major League baseball schedule and they're like, hey, the Reds play the Tigers and It's starting at 1205 and you're on my Reds fan. I was like, well, that's a little early. And it says it's on the Roku channel. So that was exciting for me because Aaron, I didn't know, there was a Roku channel. I thought, like when you had Roku, you get other channels. But I didn't know Roku had its own channel. So that was in and of itself exciting. And then I turned it on and it looks like a game from like the 1970s, which is pretty exciting. Like the graphics, they need to update their cameras a little bit. But I. Major League Baseball to me has a little bit of a problem when it's on so many channels that I feel like it's on no channels and I can't find the games. I think that's a little bit of.
- [15:08]
Mark Kester
A problem is the Guardians in Cleveland had a weekend series where the Friday game was on Turner, the Saturday game was on Apple, and the Sunday game was on Roku. I mean, if, if you to try to explain that to me is hard, but I'm only 42. Baseball's main audience is like 72, Matt. So trying to get them how many older Reds fans are thinking the game isn't even on?
- [15:33]
Matt Jones
Yeah, they're like, it's on. I mean, how many people. That's true. My, my grandparents, if they were alive, if I tried to tell them it was on Roku, they'd be like, first of all, we hired an exterminator. All the Roku's. And so I do not, I do not want to watch that game. That's all. I mean, it is what it is, I guess. But you know baseball. And it's only going to get worse, by the way, as they continue to separate this content. Now, you probably don't care as much because you're a Rockies fan. So for you, you probably don't want to watch these games very often. The Rockies set the record for worst record in history after 70 games. They're what, 12, no, 13 and 57, which is not good. It was once set by the 1899 Cleveland spiders.
- [16:19]
Mark Kester
I was there. Yeah, they were on Roku. The 1899 spiders.
- [16:23]
Matt Jones
Yeah. Well, you know, that's, that's, that's the way it was. It was a telegraph era. Kyle Farmer, former Red, was asked about it and he said, quote, we don't care. I mean, there's nothing we can do about it. It is what it is. We've just got to show up tomorrow and play. There's nothing you can really say about it except that if it happens, it happens.
- [16:43]
Mark Kester
Okay, let's count the cliches in the, in the, in the quote.
- [16:47]
Matt Jones
I'll give him credit. We don't care is not really a cliche. You barely Hear they don't care.
- [16:53]
Mark Kester
Right? That's not something you hear come out of a player's mouth very often. But at 13 and 57, I got to agree with Kyle Farmer. I also don't care. So there you go. None of the fans care. And it's evident that none of you care because you'd have a better record if you did.
- [17:09]
Matt Jones
And that's 13 and 57 with a sweep they just had like a week ago. They swept the Marlins. So, you know, it could have been worse. I like he said, there's nothing we can do about it. Actually there can. You can win.
- [17:22]
Mark Kester
What is there's nothing we can do about it. Mean you're the players.
- [17:25]
Matt Jones
Like there is.
- [17:27]
Mark Kester
You could pitch and hit and run. Like something you could do about it.
- [17:31]
Matt Jones
If anyone could do something about it, it would be you. All the players, Kyle.
- [17:36]
Mark Kester
There's nothing I can do about it. That's for dang sure. Then he could do something about it.
- [17:42]
Matt Jones
It is what it is. Which is my favorite thing to say to an ex girlfriend when I screwed up something. Well, it is what it is. At this point. Can we just get over it? It is what it is. We got to just show up tomorrow and play.
- [17:57]
Mark Kester
We do have to show up tomorrow.
- [18:00]
Matt Jones
Contractually, we are obligated to show up and play tomorrow. There's nothing you can say about it. Again, you're talking as we see, as we speak. Except that if it happens, it happens. Well, I mean, that's true.
- [18:16]
Mark Kester
It happened to the 1899 spiders and none of those guys are alive to talk about it.
- [18:22]
Matt Jones
I mean, it's not good for baseball that the way the salary situation is. You essentially now in baseball have basically three groups of teams. You either have the mega powers, you either you have the sort of middling wild card teams, and then you have the junk. And some of these teams that essentially because of salary are junk. Their goal is can we be good enough to be a middling wild card team? Like the chances of them being a power are low, but can we be good enough to be a middling wild card team? And the Rockies are not even that.
- [18:55]
Mark Kester
The other funny Rockies story is that they gave an update over the weekend, Matt, about Chris Bryant, as if. And he's their high priced star that they spent all the money on. But right now he's injured. Now, if you're Chris Bryant and you're a 2016 Cubs World Series champion, how hard are you rehabbing to get back to get on the field for a team that's 1357 probably not that hard.
- [19:20]
Matt Jones
I don't really know. So I don't know much about the Rockies. This may surprise you. You are a Rockies fan. Why? Why are they so bad? Because on paper it would seem to me that they shouldn't be. I mean, they're in Denver. It's a major market. Like, why are they so awful?
- [19:37]
Mark Kester
Incompetent Front office is where it starts. They tend to promote the longest tenured person in the front office to run the front office. And anybody who's in business, who's listening to the show this morning knows just because someone's been there a long time doesn't mean they know what they're doing or that they're good at their job. Also, it's a beautiful ballpark in a beautiful city and people go to root for the Cubs and the Giants and the Dodgers and the. So their attendance is pretty good. So, Matt, really, they have. The team makes money. They have no reason to spend more money or to focus on trying to put a winning product on the field.
- [20:18]
Matt Jones
Because the people will come anyway.
- [20:20]
Mark Kester
It's one of the nicest picnics in the Rocky Mountain. It's like nobody wants to go there to watch quality baseball product. But, you know, but it starts with bad ownership. And so the front office they hire, they fire poor Bud Black. Okay. Halfway through this awful stretch. As if firing the manager is going to do anything with.
- [20:40]
Matt Jones
Yeah, it's helped, clearly.
- [20:42]
Mark Kester
That sent them on a long ass winning streak, you know, so they, they continue not to address. You know, what's scary is it's not like they have some loaded farm system.
- [20:52]
Matt Jones
Yeah, they have like a bad farm system too. That's good. So you have. So you're bad and you have no future. Again, part of my thing with baseball, and I love the Reds, but I think baseball's become a sport where people only really like their local team. The Reds are playing the Tigers. How many people do you think out there that are sports fans know that the Tigers have the best record in baseball?
- [21:14]
Mark Kester
I would say if, if we sampled 100 people listening, seven would know that the Tigers had the best team and best record in baseball.
- [21:23]
Matt Jones
Yeah.
- [21:24]
Mark Kester
Dodgers or Yankees? Like, that's just like the snap judgment response to someone who hasn't looked at the standings page on ESPN.com recently.
- [21:31]
Matt Jones
Yeah. And how many people do you think know their pitcher? Is it school ball? Is that how you say his last name?
- [21:37]
Mark Kester
Tarek? Scubal. Yeah.
- [21:39]
Matt Jones
Scubal.
- [21:39]
Mark Kester
Yeah.
- [21:40]
Matt Jones
How many people do you think know that he's the best pitcher in baseball? If Tark Skubal walked down New York City in Times Square. Would anyone in New York even want a picture?
- [21:57]
Mark Kester
Be a fascinating experiment, but I would guess Tarik school could. Now, if Shohei Ohtani walked.
- [22:05]
Matt Jones
No, no. I'm asking about Tark school because he's the best pitcher. I think Turk Scubal could walk naked onto the set of first take and people would, he would, people would not know who he was, why he was there. It would like I and again, this is nothing against Tark schoolbowl. I think it's a major league baseball problem. I should know Tark school, I'm telling you at this moment, I don't know what he looks like.
- [22:33]
Mark Kester
I don't.
- [22:33]
Matt Jones
I have no idea.
- [22:35]
Mark Kester
Matt, we're in rooting for teams in the same state. If Ellie Dela Cruz walks down the street in Cincinnati, he gets mobbed. If he walks down the street in Cleveland, nobody knows who he is.
- [22:45]
Matt Jones
I'm watching the Tigers and I don't know who Tark Scubal is. That's a problem that major league baseball has. We have a big trade in the NBA. We'll tell you about it next on Sunday Morning. Matt and Myron the podcast.
- [23:13]
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- [23:31]
Matt Jones
You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. You can Venmo this.
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- [23:36]
Matt Jones
You can Venmo.
- [23:37]
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- [23:44]
Matt Jones
My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink. Then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com it is Sunday morning Matt Myron on ESPN Radio. But he is not Myron. He is Aaron Goldhammer. I'm Matt Jones. It is presented by Progressive Insurance. We are now joined on the phone by the man, the myth, the NBA Front Office Insider, Bobby Marks from espn. Bobby's here to talk about the big trade. Grizzly trading Desmond Bain to the Magic for KCP Cole Anthony and four, count them, four unprotected first round picks. Bobby, I, you're the expert. I'm just the guy that blabs, but when I see that, I'm like, that feels like a lot. For Desmond Bain, you're the expert. Does that feel like a lot to you?
- [24:48]
Bobby Marks
It is. Especially that's not how Orlando is operated. When you study how they've built their roster, they've, they've done it through the draft and eventually you kind of, you know, you kind of run into options, you know, into a dead end. As far as how far that I guess that roster could go, losing in the first round in consecutive years. Yeah, it's rich. I mean, it's a rich package. And Desmond Baines is a really good player. When you look at the contract that's coming back, you know, nearly $200 million and then the price of the draft picks that are going out, I mean, this year it's the 16th pick and then certainly the picks in the future in 26, 28 and 30. And there's a pick swap in there in 29 also.
- [25:29]
Matt Jones
Yeah, but Bobby, that 26 one is Phoenix. That could be like, technically it's okay. Okay.
- [25:36]
Bobby Marks
There's, there's some language in the, in the, in the, in the, in there. Actually, if, if the Wizards keep their pick, which is top eight protected, that goes to New York. If it's not, the wizard would have the right swaps with Phoenix and Memphis will get a pick in 26. We're not sure if it's going to be that Phoenix pick though. So that's, that's still a TBD as far as what actually is, is going to be conveyed there. But no, it's still. Listen, when you're, when you're trading for first round picks and there's a pick swap in there and it's similar to what we saw New York do last year with Mikhail Bridges. Like usually those type of, you know, that type of package and draft picks is for all star level players and Desmond Bain is a good player here and I get where Orlando is, but it's certainly, it's certainly, as I said, it's an aggressive move, Bobby.
- [26:27]
Mark Kester
First thing I thought when I saw this is what is up with Memphis because the west is so competitive, there are all these teams that could win it. Do you think they're trying to go down and rebuild? And there Might be more stars on the move from the Grizzlies elsewhere.
- [26:45]
Bobby Marks
Well, we'll know soon because you know, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is renegotiation eligible this offseason here and if they give him a nice size, you know, contract and you've caps face to do it, then that's certainly an indication that they're going to continue building around him. And John Morant job is going to be interesting too because he's extension eligible. You know, Zach Edie's out for a little bit of time and you know, they pick up the 16th pick in the draft here. Yeah, you know, you're right. I mean it's, it's, there are some ways where you could say, you know, trading you're probably your second best player off that roster is a sign that you're going to take a step back. I don't know how you can take a step back in the Western Conference. It's, unless you're really going to, you know, really take a step back. And that's trading away, you know, Ja and in, in Jaren and picking up all these draft picks and then trying to figure out through the draft here and everything. So I do think it's, I think it's a little bit to kind of get their finances in order a little bit. You know, I do like kcp. Cole Anthony gave us some minutes off the, off the bench. You know, you certainly can flip those guys again if you, if you wanted to in a deal here. So I, I get it where Memphis is. You know, the draft picks are appealing, but as I said, it's, you know, there's, there's 1 in 26, there's a TBD and then 28 and 30 and there's a pick swap here. And, and, but I said we'll, we'll learn as far as what direction they are going to go, as far as.
- [28:11]
Matt Jones
What, what they do at Sharon talking to Bobby Marks, ESPN NBA Front Office Insider. So, I mean, I'm not saying something anyone doesn't know, but it feels like the spurs and the Rockets are the two most likely landing spots if there was a Giannis deal, if there's a Durant deal. So look at that, look at those two rosters. Obviously Wimby, Wimby is safe. I sort of see both of the other rosters maybe and say for a guy like Giannis or a guy like maybe not Durant, but for Giannis for sure. Are all those rosters up for grabs except Wimby or are there people you think that are kind of off the table for each of those teams.
- [28:56]
Bobby Marks
Yeah. I would say, I think Durant and Giannis are totally two different as far as packages with. When you look at it here, I would say. I would say the likelihood is that Milwaukee continuously continues building their roster around Giannis and they'll try to figure that out Summer. As far as Durant, I would say, listen, in a San Antonio trade, I wouldn't think, you know, the number two pick and Stephen Castle would be available. Certainly Wemby there. As it goes with Houston, I wouldn't think Amend Thompson is available.
- [29:29]
Matt Jones
Yes.
- [29:30]
Bobby Marks
You know, as far. So I think there are. There's a bucket. Listen, Giannis is a different animal and you're right outside of Victor, you're basically everything would be in play here. I do think those two teams have. I call it the bucket list of things to offer in a superstar package where maybe Miami doesn't quite or New York or Minnesota, which is a little bit complicated because of the money and everything. But they've listen when they've got draft assets and you've got players and you got controllable contracts and the biggest thing is what does your roster look like after you acquire that player? Are you still. Are you playoff worthy? Can you compete for a championship? You know, the San Antonio is extremely interesting because they went out and got de' Aaron Fox. They haven't been playing with Victoria. And so you're trying to take that, you know, you're not trying to jump to step two, you're trying to jump to step five. And in doing that here, so. But they, as I said, they both have a lot of things. The draft picks, the controllable contracts win now players to go out and do a deal, especially for. Especially for Durant.
- [30:39]
Matt Jones
Bobby Marks, ESPN NBA Front Office Insider, thank you very much for your time. I'm sure this will be the first of many of these coming in the next few weeks.
- [30:48]
Bobby Marks
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, guys.
- [30:50]
Matt Jones
There you go. You know, this draft, Aaron, is a. It's interesting because obviously Cooper Flagg is the top choice, but you also have a lot of guys. I mean, I think. I think Flag and Harper are 1, 2. I think those. That's pretty clear. But then you start at number three. You can make a case for a lot of guys three through eight and then you start at number nine. And you could make cases for guys nine through 22, depending on what you wanted. I think it's a very interesting draft with three tiers where there are big drop offs and you could find teams getting like the 16th pick and getting the second or third best player in the draft.
- [31:27]
Mark Kester
I have two big, like, overall questions with Harper and with Ace Bailey. If they're so. If they're so good though, Matt, why didn't Rutgers make the NCAA tournament?
- [31:39]
Matt Jones
Fair question. They were one of the worst coach teams I've ever seen. They had no offensive scheme. And I, I'm of the opinion Ace Bailey is not quite as good as people think as the third pick. If I were ranking three through eight, he would be eight for me. Now, I know there's a lot of people that disagree with that, but I think Ace Bailey is the kind of dude that is destined to have a career where he scores 19 points a game on a team that doesn't make the playoffs. Right. Dylan Harper's different. Like, I think he's the real guy and I think he's the definitive number two pick. But there are other dudes I like. I mean, I would say Knipple from Duke is a guy that I like a lot. Vijay Edgecombe is a guy that I like a lot. I mean, then there are dudes in the third tier, like the kid from. Whose name, the Jasper kid from Illinois, who I think has a chance to be really, really good. So this draft is really like the GMs and the teams that make decisions have a chance to make some really good decision. We're going to see some amazing picks 10 years down the road when we look at this. Guys who got picked late, who were better than a lot of guys got picked before.
- [32:47]
Mark Kester
Where do you think Walter Clayton gets drafted?
- [32:50]
Matt Jones
So Walter Clayton, to me, is a guy who's destined to be underdrafted because of his size, but he should go. I don't know how you would pick 15 to 18 and not have him. Right? Like, to me, he's not going to fail. Walter Clayton is not going to fail.
- [33:06]
Mark Kester
Of the list of guys who've dominated the NCAA tournament to that extent, okay, how many of them have just gone to the pros and stunk versus guys who have gone to the pros and surprised? And we're all like, hey, on the biggest stage, didn't this guy show all of us? Didn't Draymond Green show all of us that he was a pretty good player in college? Second round pick?
- [33:29]
Matt Jones
The analogy for him is Jalen Brunson, right? Like, I mean, if you, you see Jalen Brunson, he did this in college. Everybody acted like he couldn't do it in the NBA, and then he did. Now, I don't know I mean, is Walter Clayton. There are going to be five guys, four guys in this draft pick that will be better than Walter Clayton. But if you told me in 10 years he's the fifth or sixth best player in this draft, it wouldn't shock me. But he won't go there because he was in college too long and because people think he's too small. But he's not going to fail. A dude late in the draft is a guy like Mark Sears at Alabama. That dude's not going to fail either. I don't know if he's going to be great, but he's not going to fail, I guarantee you.
- [34:08]
Mark Kester
So he's going to be a rotation player in the NBA.
- [34:11]
Matt Jones
That's exactly right. So if I'm picking 25th and I know this dude is going to be in my rotation, I don't know why you wouldn't take him. But the NBA has always been, they're getting more and more accepting of these long time guys, these four year guys. It wasn't like that, but now it is a little bit. But I still think they just look at a dude that's been in college three or four years and say, well, he can't be that good. He was in college for three or four years.
- [34:35]
Mark Kester
Well, I watched the NCAA tournament and I watched every game Florida played and Walter Clayton did things in that tournament I've only seen a couple of guys ever do.
- [34:42]
Matt Jones
So I'm totally with you. There are guys over the years that when I as a Kentucky fan play against them, I'm like, you scare me. Please stop. And Walter Clayton was one of those. And by the way, Mark Sears was too in a much. Now he's shorter so I get it with him. But the idea that those dudes somehow don't have value to these NBA teams, I just don't get it. But the reason they do that is they'll be a Shay Gilgis Alexander that that ends up doing what he does. We will make our picks of all the various sporting events today. Finish it up with the dude Hammer, Matt Jones from Kentucky. It's Sunday morning Matt and Myron. The podcast.
- [35:36]
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- [36:28]
Nordstrom Advertiser
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- [36:36]
Matt Jones
It is a great day to be alive. Travis Trent is correct. It is Sunday U.S. open, Father's Day, Matt Myron. And we got NBA ESPN radio tomorrow 7:30 thunders and pacers game day with Lance Meadow and Norris Cole. Is that two time NBA champion Norris Cole?
- [36:56]
Mark Kester
That's Cleveland State's own Norris.
- [36:58]
Matt Jones
Cleveland State. Yes, Cleveland State Norse. Cole will not remember this. I once beat him in a game of paper, rock, scissors while he was at Cleveland State. It was to who was going to walk through the door first and I don't remember who won, but he seemed surprised. He was that rubberina for a game.
- [37:15]
Mark Kester
Was that best two or three or.
- [37:17]
Matt Jones
That was one of one. It was like we were both kind of doing thing. No, you go. No, you go. No, you go. So I said paper, rock, scissors. Yeah. And I knew I liked him because he did Paper, rock, scissors. I don't remember who won but Norris, thank you for doing that. Let's do a little take.
- [37:31]
Mark Kester
Hold on. Can I go on a quick tangent here? Shouldn't they play rock, paper, scissors to decide who wins the kickoff in the NFL? Like why are we flipping a coin? The rock, paper, scissors would be so much more fun.
- [37:42]
Matt Jones
It would be more fun. That's true.
- [37:43]
Mark Kester
Be some strategy involved.
- [37:45]
Matt Jones
Strategy.
- [37:46]
Mark Kester
You know Goodell's got to hire me to. I'm sorry, you wanted to get to the. I just want.
- [37:50]
Matt Jones
No, no. I think that is a perfectly reasonable thing and if we were in charge, we'd do it. Just don't do what they did in the first game of the XFL where the guy tore his ACL when they tried to run and get the ball. It's time to take your pick. Take your pick. You take your pick. It's time to take your pick on Sunday morning. Now it's time to pick the games. James, let me know what we're picking.
- [38:13]
H
All right, a couple from today off the bat, we have an elimination game in the men's College World Series, Arizona and Louisville. Louisville is the favorite, minus 110. Who you guys got?
- [38:26]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I would pick basically any team in sports besides Louisville. So give me Arizona. Do not let the Cards win a game. So give me. Give me Arizona.
- [38:37]
Mark Kester
And, Matt, as you know, my wife is from Louisville. They're huge Cards fans. They'd kill me if I didn't pick the Cardinals. So we know nothing about either of these two teams, but you're picking Arizona, and I'm picking Louisville.
- [38:47]
Matt Jones
Yeah. Louisville has made the College World Series three or four times in the last 15 years, but I don't think they've won a game. I think that's been one of the weird things. They get there and they don't win. So maybe they've won one. I'm not sure. They haven't won many. So I'm going to take Arizona. What's next?
- [39:00]
H
Yeah, you can see that game. 2pm Eastern on ESPN. ESPN plus. Let's go. The final round of the U.S. open. Four guys atop the leaderboard. Sam Burns plus 210 to win it. He's at four under right now. Adam Scott plus 325. And JJ Spawn are tied. They're both at three under. And Victor Hovland at plus 450. All those odds on ESPN bet. Who you guys got to win the U.S. open?
- [39:27]
Matt Jones
I'm not picking Adam Scott because an ex girlfriend of mine once said he was really hot, and I've been very jealous of him since that. She was like, you know, Adam Scott. She gave one of those. Who's that? She's done that. She did that twice. Jimmy Garoppolo and Adam Scott. And I've never. I've never forgiven either one of them. So I ain't picking him. I'm gonna go with Victor Hovland. The big. The big European has a smooth swing. The US Opens kind of designed for his game. It's a couple back. I feel like Spawn and Burns are not gonna be able to handle the spotlight. Give me Victor Hovland.
- [39:57]
Mark Kester
Yeah, I agree with you about Spawn and Burns. My wife really likes Marcus Freeman, so I don't like watching Notre Dame football.
- [40:04]
Matt Jones
I get that, too.
- [40:04]
Mark Kester
Yeah, that's. I. I understand it. I just know that I'm not quite on his level. I am picking someone who I've never heard of to come from behind and win this. My other prediction is that, like, one under is going to win it. Like, Victor Hovland can shoot even part a day. I think that'll be good enough to win The US Open.
- [40:25]
Matt Jones
Spawn is going to be the Keith Clearwater of this year who led the 1988 U.S. open only to fall apart down the stretch. There will be a clear water pool today by Mr. Spawn. What's next?
- [40:40]
H
So we have a game that's going on right now. Tigers. Reds. The Tigers are up one nothing. We're in the bottom of the third. Tigers currently on ESPN vet minus 600 to win the game.
- [40:51]
Matt Jones
Whoa. Okay. Well one nothing run. They give them a minus 600.
- [40:56]
H
There's a reason why you wanted me to bring this game up?
- [40:58]
Matt Jones
Yes, there's a reason I want to bring this up. The Reds have played 39 series in a row. The Reds have played their last 39 series where they've lost the first game. They've lost the series. The all time record is 47. Seems impossible that you would have. If you lose the first game you would lose the series 39 times. This will be 40 if they lose today. I think they will lose today. And it's an underrated record to watch. When the reds lose game one. This will could be their 40th straight series they lose there.
- [41:28]
Mark Kester
I want to write that down because I feel like there's some ESPN bet credits to be made. There is betting against the Cincinnati Reds. If they lose the first game.
- [41:37]
Matt Jones
Watch the first game.
- [41:38]
Mark Kester
Matt, does that mean in a four game set if they lose the first game they won't even. They haven't even split the series?
- [41:44]
Matt Jones
Haven't even split? No. It's amazing.
- [41:47]
Mark Kester
Unbelievable.
- [41:48]
Matt Jones
The first game is it for the Reds because they have an amazing record when they win the first game. So it's like they just decide. It's their entire self esteem comes from the first game of the series they.
- [42:02]
Mark Kester
Ever made the playoffs. Game one would decide.
- [42:05]
Matt Jones
Oh, it's the whole. It's everything. They lose game one just go ahead and go back home. What's next James?
- [42:10]
H
Let's see what baseball. Sunday night Baseball tonight. You can Hear it on ESPN radio coverage at 6pm Eastern. The Giants and the Dodgers. The Dodgers are minus 200. On the money line. You got Kyle Harrison on the mound for the Giants against Dustin May for the Dodgers.
- [42:26]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I don't know who those people are.
- [42:29]
H
Great. Great.
- [42:30]
Matt Jones
Like Michigan.
- [42:32]
H
He has a great pile. Like red hair, really long, fluffy.
- [42:35]
Matt Jones
Yeah, yeah. I thought he was the Michigan basketball.
- [42:37]
Mark Kester
Coach of about five. Yeah, exactly.
- [42:39]
Matt Jones
I'm going to go with the. I'm gonna go with the Dodgers because they're the Dodgers. But Kyle Harrison and Dustin May. I wish them the most success in Life. I don't think I'll ever know who either one of them.
- [42:50]
Mark Kester
Which team does the. That guy, the Japanese guy, the otan.
- [42:55]
Matt Jones
Shohei Ohtani. He plays. He plays for the Dodgers.
- [42:57]
Mark Kester
He play. Okay, so I'm gonna pick the Dodgers. Yeah, that sounds.
- [43:00]
Matt Jones
That one as well. All right, what's next?
- [43:02]
H
All right, Game five in the NBA Finals is on Monday. You can hear right here on ESPN radio coverage at 7:30pm Eastern. The Thunder are nine and a half point favorites in game five. Who you guys got?
- [43:14]
Matt Jones
Yeah, I mean. I mean, you gotta pick the Thunder. Nine and a half, though, feels too many points. But. But the thing about these Thunder games is for the most part they've been the same, which is either they win by a decent margin or they lose. So I. I can understand why that nine and a half. I do feel like if you think the Thunder are gonna win, they're gonna win by a lot. So I'm gonna take the Thunder. I think the Thunder are gonna win by 17 points. And then I think game six will be an amazing battle. But I'm gonna take the Thunder by 17 points.
- [43:45]
Mark Kester
I'm gonna say that the Pacers win game five outright. Take them on the money line, hammer better the weekend.
- [43:53]
Matt Jones
Wow.
- [43:53]
Mark Kester
And then OKC will go to Indiana and win Game six.
- [43:58]
Matt Jones
You should bet those, like, together. You should bet that, like, 1, 2. You could get a parlay. That's quite spicy.
- [44:04]
Mark Kester
That I would lose. I think there's going to be a Game seven a week from today. We'll see. But I think it's about time. It's been about a decade since it.
- [44:12]
Matt Jones
Would be a week from today. Can they make this series longer? My goodness.
- [44:17]
Mark Kester
Monday, Thursday, Sunday, for the next.
- [44:20]
Matt Jones
I hate that about the Finals. Let's go. Come on. We got things to do in life. I don't. I can't. I feel like they. I already feel like this series is gone for two months. What's next?
- [44:29]
H
All right, I have one more. It'll be game six in the Stanley Cup Final on Tuesday. The Oilers and the Panthers. The Panthers are minus 1:40 on the puck line. They're also up 3 to 2 in the series. Who do you guys got here?
- [44:44]
Matt Jones
I hate that they call it the puck line. I'm gonna. I'm gonna take the Oilers just because I want them to win. Because people in Edmonton care more than people in Miami. So. And I think it'll be an awesome building, but I think the Panthers probably win. But in my heart, I'm taking Edmonton.
- [45:01]
Mark Kester
I agree. I'm rooting for Edmonton, but I think the Panthers got him. I think that after last night, Edmonton is kind of cooked. I think having to go on the road to Florida where the ice, the condition of the ice is going to be terrible because it' 180 degrees outside and they can't keep anything cold. I think the Panthers win the cup on Tuesday.
- [45:22]
Matt Jones
I think they're going to be able to keep the ice cold. That's really the they can't.
- [45:26]
Mark Kester
This is a legitimate problem that it's.
- [45:28]
Matt Jones
Crappy ice in Florida because they keep ice in my refrigerator. It's hot outside. It feels like that should be something they should be able to fix.
- [45:36]
Mark Kester
Little more ice on the range there.
- [45:38]
Matt Jones
In the old Hammer. Lance Meadow and Norris Cole. See later ESPN Radio thanks for listening to Matt and Myron the podcast. You can listen to the show live every Sunday morning at 10am Eastern on ESPN Radio, the ESPN app, and on SiriusXM Channel 80. Matt and Myron the Pod Sam.