Hour 3: Where does the Future of King James Stand?

Summary

Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron – Episode Summary: Hour 3: Where Does the Future of King James Stand? Release Date: May 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of "Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron" hosted by Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. on ESPN Radio, the hosts delve deep into the evolving landscape of the NBA. The primary focus revolves around assessing the future of basketball luminaries such as LeBron James and Giannis Antetokounmpo (“King James”), alongside comprehensive analyses of teams like the Oklahoma City Thunder, Houston Rockets, Golden State Warriors, Minnesota Timberwolves, and the Milwaukee Bucks. The episode culminates with a detailed preview of the highly anticipated Game 7 between the Warriors and Rockets.

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Oklahoma City Thunder: The Patient Builders

Brandon Leak initiates the discussion by highlighting the Oklahoma City Thunder's strategic rebuilding efforts. The team has demonstrated remarkable patience, accumulating numerous first-round picks post the Paul George trade, effectively positioning themselves as a formidable force in the Western Conference.

“If they win an NBA title, they will be proven right. That patience can work if you really do stick with it in the NBA.” – Brandon Leak [01:15]

David Dennis Jr. echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the Thunder's potential to form a dynasty with rising stars like Chet Holmgren and Jalen Williams.

“This team is just getting started. That's the thing. They're at the bottom floor of what this looks like.” – David Dennis Jr. [02:07]

The hosts discuss the strategic acquisitions and the trade-offs involved, notably the loss of star players like Kevin Durant, James Harden, and Russell Westbrook. However, they agree that the Thunder's focus on accumulating assets could yield long-term benefits.

“They have 10 first-round picks through '20, '30 and they aren't bad ones as well.” – Brandon Leak [02:59]

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Houston Rockets: A Return to Glory?

Transitioning to the Houston Rockets, the conversation centers on the team's resurgence under Coach Mike D'Antoni. The Rockets have reassembled a young and dynamic roster featuring Jalen Green, Fred VanVleet, and Stephen Adams.

“It would mean a return to glory and a restoration to let people know there are some teams like the Pistons, like the Rockets, who used to knock people around in the NBA.” – Brandon Leak [03:49]

David Dennis Jr. lauds Coach D'Antoni's leadership and the potential for the Rockets to attract star talent, potentially even Giannis Antetokounmpo.

“I don't think you could make an argument that anybody else is coaching right now better than him if they go out there and win a championship.” – David Dennis Jr. [05:29]

The Rockets' disciplined approach and focus on defense are highlighted as key factors that could propel them to championship contention.

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Golden State Warriors: Experience vs. Youth

The Golden State Warriors' quest for another championship is scrutinized, particularly in light of their seasoned roster led by Stephen Curry and Draymond Green. The discussion explores whether the Warriors can overcome their aging lineup to secure the title.

“That would mean that old guys could still do it, even though the young guys certainly could give them all they could handle.” – Brandon Leak [05:29]

David Dennis Jr. asserts Curry's unparalleled legacy in basketball, positioning him just below Michael Jordan in championship hierarchies.

“You have as many championships you have more than LeBron. You're right there below Jordan.” – David Dennis Jr. [06:18]

The hosts debate the Warriors' ability to adapt their gameplay against the Rockets' aggressive zone defense, emphasizing the importance of veteran savvy in high-stakes games.

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Minnesota Timberwolves and the Lakers: LeBron James vs. Luka Doncic

A significant portion of the episode examines the future trajectories of LeBron James with the Los Angeles Lakers and Luka Doncic with the Minnesota Timberwolves. The conversation delves into the Lakers' disappointing first-round exit and the implications for LeBron's career.

“How much longer for LeBron James and can they get a championship next year? If next year is going to be the end of the road for the King...” – Brandon Leak [13:43]

David Dennis Jr. speculates on the potential end of LeBron's tenure with the Lakers, questioning whether the team can sustain championship aspirations without adequate support.

“They got the main problem that they have right now is the fact that your second-best player, your second LeBron James is going to take a ton of money...” – David Dennis Jr. [14:34]

The discussion also touches on Luka Doncic's conditioning and defensive contributions, critiquing his performance and its impact on the Lakers' playoff run.

“He was blown BY I think 65% of the time when he was playing defense.” – David Dennis Jr. [17:25]

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Milwaukee Bucks and Giannis Antetokounmpo: A Rebuilding Crossroads

The episode transitions to address the Milwaukee Bucks' first-round exit and the looming question of Giannis Antetokounmpo's future with the team. Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. explore the possibilities of a mutual parting of ways versus a strategic rebuild.

“Is this the year where Giannis has to say, it has been one heck of a party, but it's time for me to move on?” – Brandon Leak [25:02]

David Dennis Jr. considers the Bucks' position in the trade market and the potential destinations for Giannis, including the Houston Rockets and other contending teams.

“I think that him and Milwaukee are going to come to a mutual understanding that if Giannis stays right now with the current state of the team...” – David Dennis Jr. [25:56]

The hosts advocate for a respectful and strategic separation, where both Giannis and the Bucks can pursue future successes independently.

“Have a joint press conference, sit with the owners, sit with the GM, say we've come to this decision together.” – David Dennis Jr. [35:16]

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Game 7 Preview: Warriors vs. Rockets

Concluding the episode, Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. provide an in-depth analysis of the impending Game 7 between the Golden State Warriors and the Houston Rockets. They weigh the Warriors' experience against the Rockets' youthful vigor and strategic defenses.

“Can Jimmy Butler get past the zone? Can the ball get out of the hands of the shooter that has got the two defenders on him quickly...” – Brandon Leak [42:15]

David Dennis Jr. emphasizes the Rockets' defensive prowess and the potential for their young stars like Jalen Green and Fred VanVleet to influence the game's outcome.

“Houston is probably the better team that I've seen this group right here at being able to guard Steph Curry...” – David Dennis Jr. [41:42]

The hosts conclude by highlighting the high stakes and unpredictable nature of Game 7, underscoring its significance in the postseason landscape.

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Conclusion

This episode of "Sunday Mornings with Matt and Myron" offers a comprehensive exploration of pivotal NBA storylines, from team rebuilds and championship aspirations to star players contemplating their futures. Through insightful analysis and engaging dialogue, Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current basketball zeitgeist, setting the stage for an exhilarating conclusion to the postseason.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Brandon Leak [02:07]: “This team is just getting started. That's the thing. They're at the bottom floor of what this looks like.”

• David Dennis Jr. [02:56]: “This will be another kick in the gut to the LA Clippers who just choked out...”

• Brandon Leak [03:32]: “...you give up Kevin Durant, you say goodbye to James Harden and you say goodbye to Russell Westbrook.”

• David Dennis Jr. [05:29]: “I don't think you could make an argument that anybody else is coaching right now better than him if they go out there and win a championship.”

• Brandon Leak [07:06]: “Could it be the last one? He still has time in the NBA...”

• David Dennis Jr. [25:02]: “Yeah. And I don't think this will be a one sided thing, though, from Giannis.”

• Brandon Leak [35:45]: “...they have to do it quickly because time is running out for LeBron and the Lakers...”

• David Dennis Jr. [41:42]: “...they have a ton of ready made contenders right already right there.”

This structured summary encapsulates the depth and breadth of discussions in the episode, providing listeners and readers alike with a clear understanding of the pivotal NBA narratives covered by Matt and Myron.

Transcript

[Brandon Leak]

That's your money saying it's time for a McDonald's run. Cause with new McValue at McDonald's you get more than you expect. Like buy a six piece McNuggets and add a McChicken for just a dollar. Your money says let's go get more than you Expect with new MCvalue. Prices and participation may vary, valid per item of equal or lesser value. This is Matt Myron the Podcast. Welcome in to Sunday morning here on ESPN radio, the ESPN app and Sirius XM channel 80 home team. Brandon Leak, David Dennis Jr. In for Matt and Myron. You can give us a call at 1/4, say ESPN to be a part of any conversation. We have a Game 7 tonight as the warriors and the Rockets will get down for Game 7 to see who moves on to the second round of the postseason. Rockets and Warriors Game 7 on ESPN radio coverage begins at 8:00 Eastern Standard time. Now what does it mean if certain teams win a title? It changes perception, it changes narratives, it changes the history, it changes a culture. It changes fan bases forever. And there are a lot of teams that have that opportunity. And now we get into a conversation of what would winning a championship mean for so our first team will be the Oklahoma City Thunder. David I'm thinking this will be one of the more interesting exercises in all of professional sports. We always talk about patience, we always talk about growth. We always talk about coaching folks up, coaching teams up. Nobody does that. You don't wait, you don't have patience. You get three years in, your star hasn't gotten any all star births. You get three years in, you're not in the conference finals, people start going crazy. But the Oklahoma City Thunder tore it all down and acquired pick after pick after pick and found a way to get to the top of the food chain in the Western Conference, no less. And if they win an NBA title, they will be proven right. That patience can work if you really do stick with it in the NBA.

[David Dennis Jr.]

One word, one word for this Thunder team. They win a championship. Dynasty. This team is just getting started. That's the thing. They're at the the bottom floor of what this looks like. Chet is just getting started. Jalen Wibbs, just get started. And they have picks, they have assets. They can get better next season. They could win a championship and add Kevin Durant to their team if they wanted to. You know, like this team could be so much better for years to come. They have all of these assets, all of these picks. This is a team that can be the team of the 2000s or you know, 20, beginning of 2000s really, because of who they have on their roster, what they can go for going forward.

[Brandon Leak]

Do you care about second round picks? Because I have a number for you.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Okay.

[Brandon Leak]

Do you care about second round picks?

[David Dennis Jr.]

David Dennis Jr. Not totally in the NBA.

[Brandon Leak]

Then I'll leave them off. The Oklahoma City Thunder have 10 first round picks through 20, 30 and they aren't bad ones as well. I spared you the number of second round picks that he acquired after the Paul George trade. Really put them on a trajectory where they could build what they have. But you give up Kevin Durant, you say goodbye to James Harden and you say goodbye to Russell Westbrook. Three guys who became NBA MVPs and now you're at the top of the food chain because you were patient. That will be an exercise on how to do it right?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, absolutely. And this will be another kick in the gut to the LA Clippers who just choked out and also who just let who are a big reason that the Oklahoma City Thunder have the picks that they have that are allowing them to be who they are right now.

[Brandon Leak]

What would winning a championship mean for the Houston Rockets? Well, they get back, people forget their their championship organization has been a long time. They've had different incarnations and they had a really good run when James Harden was there and Chris Paul. They thought that was going to be the crew that take them, took them to the promised land again. But they have been stymied. Now they have a young team. They have Fred Van Vliet, they have a coach that has instilled toughness. They have Jalen Green, an up and coming young star. They have Stephen Adams who is not messing around on the boards. It would mean a return to glory and a restoration to let people know there are some teams like the Pistons, like the Rockets, who used to knock people around in the NBA and it's been a while so people don't view those franchises that way. This could be a great opportunity for the Houston Rockets to get respect, put back on a name of a great fan base and a great championship organization.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Would this not make IMO Doka the best coach in the league? Oh, I mean would this not the guy who basically took the Celtics to a championship, turn their season around a couple games away? You know, he had this issue in Boston. They win the championship next year, then he goes to Houston Rockets, which is a team that's supposed to be rebuilding right now like they're supposed. They're a team that has a Ton of assets they're supposed to be building for the future. They can also make a few moves. Imagine this team winning a championship and then going back and say, hey, let's add Giannis to the squad and see what happens. Like Ma Udoka could be. I mean, I don't think you could make an argument that anybody else is coaching right now better than him if they go out there and win a championship.

[Brandon Leak]

What would winning a championship mean for the Golden State Warriors? That you can't count out a champ. That even if they're older, even if the tire tread is a little thinner, even if the air conditioning doesn't get as cold as it used to on a summer day, you can still count on a reliable vehicle to get you across the finish line. It would mean that Wardell, Stephen Curry the second is one of the most spectacular people in the history of the universe, not just basketball. This is not a great team. It is a team that can be good and have some greatness in it. But if he takes this team to the finish line along with Jimmy Butler, it would mean that old guys could still do it, even though the young guys certainly could give them all they could handle.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Mountain Rushmore. Put him on the Mountain Rush roar and call it. He is etched in stone. You have now have a situation where you have as many championships you have more than LeBron. You're right there below Jordan. You have taken a 22, 20, 22 warriors team that was also not that great of a team to a championship. And you do one with the team that was below.500 before Jimmy Butler got there. This is the Steph Curry moment where you could put yourself, hey, let's talk about this go conversation and see who's really up there if we want to. And then Jimmy Butler. What would this mean for Jimmy Butler after the way that he was unceremoniously moved and moved on from the. The Miami Heat and this idea of playoff, of Heat culture. And now we solidify playoff. Jimmy, like we're talking about legacy defining championship for a lot of people in this warriors team.

[Brandon Leak]

And could it be the last one? He still has time in the NBA. Three more years. Two more years left on his contract. But at 38, 39, at 40, will he have a chance at 38, 39 and 40 to win a title? Is this his best chance? Taking advantage of the opportunity where it could be the last go round for Steph Curry, I think certainly could make this a memorable championship, to say the least. What could winning a championship mean for the Minnesota Timberwolves that means Ant Man's the dude. I know he says he doesn't want to be the face of the franchise. I know he doesn't want to be the face of the league. I know he just wants to go out and play basketball. David Dennis Jr. I told you. I don't believe him. He wants all of the accolades that come along with being the dude that carries a franchise. Not known for winning titles, not known for having great postseason runs. He, he wants all the accolades that come along with that. That comes along where it does with superstars who play in Miami, who play in Dallas, who play in Golden State or who have played in other cities, who have won titles. He would be ascending to the ladder as the face of the NBA whether he wants it or he doesn't want it.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He's the. I'm with him. The first part. This face of the NBA, we gonna argue about this till the cows come home. But he is the, he is the guy. He is the guy who is like, think about who he will have taken out in the last two years, right? Kevin Durant, Jokic, LeBron, Doncic maybe. I mean Steph, Steph Curry, maybe Jimmy Butler maybe, maybe SGA and this Thunder team, maybe the Celtics. Like think about who this dude is, is. He's like a old girl from Game of Thrones. You got your list and you just taking names, getting rid of people. Like this is what he would be doing. If he can get to knocking out all these people in a two, in a one year, one and a half year span.

[Brandon Leak]

I'm thinking he is going to be one of. And you start looking at these contracts and the trajectory of how media and social media is still going in an arc that is pointing upward. He could be one of the guys with his youth, his exuberance, his style of play. He is not somebody who is just a one way player. The way he plays offensively, he plays defensively. The dunks, the in game dunks, he is the total package. Anthony Edwards is a balanced breakfast for anybody who appreciates an NBA player. And he would certainly leapfrog. I think he would leapfrog Luca with all this talk if he's able to win his championship before Luka Doncic does in Los Angeles.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Let's not forget about what this would mean for Rudy Gobert, who is probably the most disrespected player in the league. That of our generation. Nobody likes him. Everybody talks about get played off the court, being soft. This guy, what he did to that Lakers team. Because I mean defensively, what he would have to do for them to make it there. You would have to start having some, a lot of different conversations about Rudy Gobert and the hierarchy of great defensive players that we've seen in the NBA.

[Brandon Leak]

What would winning a championship mean for the Denver Nuggets? That means they're for real. People forget they have just won a title a few years ago and they are back in a high power band and they have their two star players locked in for a while. I think that is going to be a very attractive destination as they move forward in the future, knowing that Jamal Murray and the Joker are going to be there when they need to make tweaks, when they need to figure out how to negotiate with whatever the Western Conference is going to be year after year. They're going to be set up because their two guys have played well together and if they get another title now you're talking about going to a place where these guys have won two titles. Guess what? You'll fall in line and you'll make Denver a very, very attractive place to go to for NBA players for a long time.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Crown Jokic. You'd crown Jokic the best player in the league by a wide margin if he was able to pull this off. He can even get through OKC right now with this team. I, I mean he would be it would take for him being the best by far. But let's not also forget Russell Westbrook is on this team too. What would a ring mean for Russell? Russell Westbrook? After all he's been through all the teams, everybody's saying that nobody wants this dude. For him to go out there and get a championship as well, this would be huge for him as well.

[Brandon Leak]

Ahay. You like me now Moment for Russell Westbrook if he's able to get a ring with the Denver Nuggets. All right, coming up, what is next for LeBron James and the Lakers after a very disappointing first round exit from the postseason? We'll get to that. He's David Dennis Jr. I'm home team Brandon Leek. This is Sunday Morning on ESPN Radio and the ESPN app.

[Matt Myron]

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[Brandon Leak]

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[Brandon Leak]

Matt and Myron the Podcast what is next for Luca LeBron and the Lakers disappointing first round exit. We'll get into it here on Sunday morning on ESPN Radio, the ESPN app and Sirius XM channel 80. Home team Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. Not the way it was drawn up. David got Luka Doncic in from Dallas. Had enough time to let some chemistry gel together. You get to the postseason and then bye bye early as the Lakers are shown the door for a first round exit by Ant man and the Timberwolves. And now the question is what is next? How much longer for LeBron James and can they get a championship next year? If next year is going to be the end of the road for the.

[David Dennis Jr.]

King, it is good. I'm with I think that the next year could possibly be the end of the road. But the Lakers, they got the main problem that I that they have right now is the fact that your second best player, your second LeBron James going to take a ton of money and I'm not sure that he's good enough right now. As great as he's been, the stamina it takes to have these long runs, to play defense, to play on both sides of the court, I'm not sure he's good enough right now to be the second best player on a championship team. And if Luka Doncic is going to have to be your first best player.

[Brandon Leak]

He shouldn't have to be the second best, he should be the third best. He should be the closer. He should be the guy when he does have moments of energy that he's able to help you go on a run, he should be able to conserve energy in the fourth quarter of games and playoff games. He should not have to play a half of basketball for an entire half. We'll get to that, without a doubt. So, yeah, there are some questions. And you look at this Laker team, it's pretty much going to be the same team coming back. Is it going to be championship worthy? And how much can Luka do? You know, Nico Harrison caught a whole lot of flack and still will and probably will for the rest of his career for trading Luka from Dallas to the Lakers. But when you start looking at the fact that is Luka Doncic doing everything he possibly can to give everything he can for his team, I don't know if the answer is yes. Here is J.J. redick. He didn't call anybody out by name. David. I don't know who he's talking about. Maybe it's Rui Hachimura. You tell me who you think JJ Redick is talking about. Who could have given a little bit more to the Lakers. The work that's required in an off season to be in championship shape.

[Matt Myron]

And you know, we, we have a.

[Brandon Leak]

Ways to go as a roster and certainly there are individuals that were in phenomenal shape.

[Matt Myron]

There's certainly other ones that could have.

[Brandon Leak]

Been in better shape. That's where my mind goes immediately, is, is, you know, we, we have to.

[Matt Myron]

Get in championship shape.

[Brandon Leak]

Is he talking about Austin Reeves? Is he talking about Bronny James? He's talking about Luka Doncic not being in shape. Now look, he's been the same body type for the last three years and he goes to the NBA Finals last year. But that, that's not what's required. What's required is your best. And he's not in the best of shape at the end of these games and the end of these series.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I mean, that's true. You know, this morning I saw on, on Twitter, which, scroll down. My timeline was vintage old Luca, like old rookie. That looks like a whole different dude than what we're seeing. And J.J. redick was white, right? You need a Luka Doncic who is going to be able to Play on both sides of court. He was blown BY I think 65% of the time when he was playing defense.

[Brandon Leak]

He can't stay in front of anybody.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He can't stay in front of anybody. You can score 38 points, 40 points, 45 points. The first fact of the matter is if you're giving up just as many points, you are a net negative as a basketball player. And the Lakers brought you in there to be the guy who will lead a team, a franchise for the next 10 years. And being in shape is a huge part of that. Like we've talked about James Harden in times, they've talked about him being out of shape. Things like he ain't never looked like Luka Doncic looks in terms of poor defense, in terms of losing energy down those fourth quarter, no stretches. This is a crisis that the Lakers have to figure out with Luka Doncic.

[Brandon Leak]

You can say whatever you want to about LeBron James. He's in shape, he's about his business and he is more, he is one of the more well conditioned athletes in the history of sports. And you want to talk about somebody who doesn't have to. If he wants to just rest on his $52 million coming, his legacy as it stands right now, he can. He's still going to be working hard and being in shape. So Luka Doncic have to figure some things out. Kendrick Perkins, ESPN Analyst from NBA for our NBA coverage, he had a scathing commentary on where Luka Donches is. And I don't think he is completely off kilter after what we saw in the first round. He's right. Defense does win championships. And I think what showed Nico was what Luka displayed in the NBA Finals, right? The way that the Boston Celtics exposed him. And then you got to think about, let's take like, think about Nico history, right? Who he's been around, who he was attached to, right. It's a reason that this trade happened and nobody knew about it. Who was Kobe Bryant's agent? Jay Wills, Stephen A. Rob Polinka. Okay. Who was Kobe Bryant, Nike rep, Nico. And one of his best friends and one of his best friends. So he's been, he's been around a guy that has a killer mentality and know what it looks like, right. And so when he see Luke and he see his habits and now we hear the reports about Luka gained weight while he was sidelined with the Dallas Mavericks because of an injury. And that was the, that was the, the breaking point for Nico. We get it now. Well, Nico Harrison's Gonna have to answer for that. But Luka has to answer as well. He's got to do a better job, David, of just getting in better shape. And you know, just because he might lose 10 or 15 pounds or put on 15 pounds of lean muscle may not make him a lockdown defender, but it certainly would put him in a better position and at least he would be in a place where he is doing everything he could do to give his team everything he can.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Well, yeah, let's go back to Perk's point. Like we got a mousey pocket. We don't see it now. We like I understand the idea of moving on from Luke. I understand if that's something that you want to do, you don't feel like Duke winning championship. The main problem is what they got in return for him and the fact he didn't shop Luke around, like that's a big part of it too. But I mean, if you are concerned that this dude with the conditioning cannot lead you to a championship, that's valid. That is an absolutely valid concern to have, especially when it comes to defense, especially when it comes to stamina, things like that. I get it 100%. The problem is what he got in return.

[Brandon Leak]

Well, and the other part is, where does the coach fit into this? Because JJ Redick clearly was exposed and look, he got the opportunity of a lifetime. And there have been a lot of guys in the NBA who have made a living as assistant coaches bouncing around from city to city and haven't gotten the opportunity to be a head coach. And when you come from being a podcaster and a broadcaster and your first ever job coaching anything is the head coaching job of the Los Angeles Lakers coaching LeBron James and Luka Doncic. Much is required of you too. And that I don't know what other to call it than a fiasco of him playing his starters an entire half of basketball. Yeah, they're thin on the bench. Yeah, they don't have a lot of people to go to. That was absolutely inexcusable. When you've got a 40 year old superstar who is at the end of his career and you tried something that no one has ever seen in their.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Lives, this was as bad as a coaching job can be. When you grab a guy off of a podcast bike and tell him to go coach a team in the playoffs that you think were trying to win a championship, that's what you do. You don't rest your star. You don't figure out how to give LeBron one minute of rest. You have rudimentary double teams that you are stubbornly trying to utilize against Anthony Edwards that do not work. You do not put a big that you have sitting on the bench, a seven foot dude on the bench. You put maxi cleber in the game the fourth quarter thinking you're going to get some miracle maxi in this game. These are the things you do when you are up over your head as a coach in the NBA in the playoffs.

[Brandon Leak]

Well, some things have to change. They have some, some things that they have to figure out and you know it's going to be a situation where they're going to have to do it quickly because time is running out for LeBron and the Lakers and JJ Redick has to change his attitude with the media. All right, coming up, is it the end of Yanis in Milwaukee? We'll get to that on ESPN Radio on the ESPN app.

[Matt Myron]

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[Brandon Leak]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Matt and Myron, the podcast home team Brandon Leak along with David Dennis Jr. Sunday morning is presented by Progressive Insurance. Is it all over? Did he come? Did he conquer? And did he accomplish what he was meant to do? David Is it going to be the end of the ride for Giannis Atenokounbo in Milwaukee after the Milwaukee Bucks suffer a first round defeat, A gentleman sweep at the hands of the Indiana Pacers in the first round, first round exits, back to back years for Milwaukee. And now you start to look at the business of basketball when you start looking at how Milwaukee can revamp what they had just a few years ago when it looked like they were Going to be hanging around for a while. And then you start looking at the business of the books where Damian Lillard looked like, looks like he could miss the entirety of the season next year with his torn Achilles. You look at the end of the line for contracts for Bobby Portis Jr. And you look at the fact that you have had a really solid run with a good core group of guys, and now that could come to an end. Is this the year where Giannis has to say, it has been one heck of a party, but it's time for me to move on?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. And I don't think this will be a one sided thing, though, from Giannis. I think that, you know, we're in an era of players demanding trades, players going the front office and saying, hey, I got to get out of here. I don't think that's what we're going to get from Giannis. I think that him and Milwaukee are going to come to a mutual understanding that if Giannis stays right now with the current state of the team without Dame, that they are going to be like a play in squad. Right. They're going to be a team that'll get, you know, not good enough draft picks. They'll be a middling team, and that'll be fine. Everybody will love Giannis, will get his statues. He'll be, you know, could retire a buck. But if he wants to win, and if the Bucs want to actually have a shot at willing it winning, it'll probably require an actual rebuild. I wouldn't be surprised if they sit down at the table in this offseason and say, hey, you've given us all you can. I've given you. We've given you all we can. We had a championship we couldn't get back because we were injured for the most part in the playoffs. Let's figure out a place where you can go and maximize the rest of your career.

[Brandon Leak]

Here is Giannis, saddest post game presser, the final time this season, asked if he could win another title in Milwaukee with the Bucks.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Look, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not going to do this. I'm not gonna do this. I know how this is gonna. Whatever I say, I know how it's gonna translate. I'm not. I don't know, man. I wish I was still playing. I wish I was still, like, competing and going back to Milwaukee. I don't know.

[Brandon Leak]

You know what? He didn't say, David. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I could win. Yeah, we could win some more. Yeah, we could win. Another, he didn't say that. And so in not saying that, that opens the door for discussion. To your point, is it better for both parties involved for Giannis to continue his career somewhere else? The Bucks to start to rebuild. Brook Lopez, his contract is up. Taurean Prince, his contract is up. Gary Trent Jr. His contract is up. Bobby Portis has a player option at 13 million. He can get more than that on the free agent market. Pat Conon, uh, he's got an option. I mean, this team is going to be totally different, like next year. And Giannis Antenokubo is going to be looking around at a rebuild and he's going to be standing right there in the middle of it. It's time for him to move. The question is, what can the Bucs get back and where is a better fit for him? Could he go to Houston? Could he dare to dream, end up in Golden State? Where could he be? Could it be Miami? Where could it be? Where he could have another run at a championship title?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, that's where it gets tough. Right, because you got to look at what the Bucks want. The Bucks, I think, want to have some sort of level of contention, so they're probably going to want some veteran players and they're probably going to want some picks. They're, they, they're in sort of a pick hell right now with what they have going on that team. So it's going to be tough to figure this thing out. I think a lot of us, contingent on what happens tonight, actually, on the other side of the country, you have a Houston. Either the Houston Rockets or the Golden State warriors, are going to be extremely disappointed with the way their season went. They're going to lose and somebody's going to lose in seven. Somebody's going home. One of those teams could be in the running. For Giannis, I think the Rockets is more seamless for them. They have players now who can do well now, who you can move for Giannis. Who the Bucs are going to want now? The Bucs, if they want, ask for Amin, Thompson. That becomes a little bit more tricky. But you could work something out with, with Houston. I think that that's a really good fit. A lot of people are saying Miami. I'm not sure that Miami puts Giannis in a championship level team right now. And then you got to think about the fact that this team is probably going to have to try to get off a dame as well and try to figure that out. So there's a lot of moving parts here for Giannis. I'm keeping an eye on who's getting out early in this playoffs because I want to be fit right into a championship level team.

[Brandon Leak]

I wonder if it has to be championship level. And that's to say, David, what about teams on the rise? Do you want to go to Houston? Look, if you're Giannis, you think you can go anywhere and win, is it a better climb to the top of the ladder to do it in the Western Conference? Or could you go somewhere in the East? And I look at a team like Detroit where they don't have a lot of big contracts on the books. Tobias Harris will be making $26 million next year and Kate Cunningham is making 38. You know, could you go to a Detroit? I have tried every trade scenario on every trade machine possible. I was on the ESPN trade machine trying to get my Atlanta Hawks some kind of deal where they could send something to rebuild Milwaukee while Giannis and Trey Young would be able to play together. I wonder if a team you were.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Searching, you would try, you were trying hard.

[Brandon Leak]

I dare to dream. I dare to dream. David Dennis Jr. And I tried everything. But you look at a team like Detroit, is it better for him to look at a team or teams in the east and look at what he may or may not have to go to as opposed to trying to go to the west if he joins Houston, you still got to deal with the T Wolves, you still have to deal with Oklahoma City, you still have to deal with the Nuggets. It's still a gauntlet of teams that might make it more difficult when you're talking about the totality of trying to get to an NBA championship. Yeah.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I just don't know where in the east makes the most sense. I mean, there's been some Knicks talk and that's, that's a tricky situation to get them over there to the Knicks. You're taking on probably the Carl Anthony Towns and maybe, you know, one of those other wings that you have there. I'm not sure how appealing that is to a Milwaukee team. Again, that may not be competing that much when you have to think about Dame being out also. So I'm not sure where in the east makes a ton of sense. The, the flip side is the West. Yes, it's tough, but the west has a lot of ready made contenders right already right there. Like again, I mean, look at this Rockets team. Don't you think they're, they're a player away from competing with okc? I mean, that makes a ton of sense to me. Then there's also A wild card in there. And what would a team look like with Wimy and Giannis on the same squad running out there? Like who, who is scoring against those team? We go back to the 90s with some 60 point games in terms of who's scored with them. There's this. I mean there's just so much because also you got to think about the fact that other teams now are moving. Folks, I'm not sure how long Trae Young is going to be at the, at Atlanta. I'm not sure how long Ja is going to be in Memphis. We know that Kevin Durant's going to be gone. Is Devin Booker on the move too? Oh, there's a lot of other players that are moving. So maybe you can get a two for one where Giannis can team up with somebody and go to another organization. Orlando has a lot of space. Orlando, I mean, what are they giving up to, to get Giannis? Like there's so much, so many places he can go. And I think that what we'll look at is a situation where it is a wild card team. But Giannis has all the cars in his hand right now.

[Brandon Leak]

Well, he's the big fish and he will dominate what happens with everybody else. Because you look at the two big fish that will be available to be on the move, Kevin Durant and Giannis and you know, obviously KD can still take a team to the top in my opinion. But if Giannis is a longer term play, you know, Kevin dur Durant is 37 years old and so yeah, he can still be the guy with the ball in his hands at the end of a game. Yeah, he can still take, I think teams to deep postseason runs, but Giannis is the long term play in my opinion. And so where KD goes may have a lot to do where Giannis goes. Because if Giannis is on the move first and goes to Houston, where does that put Kevin Durant and his time and place for him to be in a spot where he can win or help a team win a championship quickly?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, the Kevin Durant thing is you're building for now. I think Kevin Durant plugs and plays into a team that's looking for a mercenaries looking for a hitman to go out there, get you over the hump for one year, two years, maybe that's OKC for a year. Maybe that is Houston to depending on how far they go in the playoffs. Maybe that is Minnesota, which, you know, that's a, that's sort of a tricky move for them to make. So I think that's a team whose window is one or two years. Giannis, you go to a team with Windows 4 or 5.

[Brandon Leak]

You look at now the landscape of the NBA, you have youth and veterans, and there's been a changing of the guard to some degree. When you look at the top of the west with Shay, Gilgis, Alexander and Chet Holmgren up there in Oklahoma City, you throw in the fact that now Ant man has, for the second postseason in a row, knocked off some iconic basketball players and where the T Wolves could end up. You look at the Nuggets with Jamal Murray and the Joker now solidifying themselves. I mean, the west is in a good spot. Cleveland, now that they've ascended to the number one seed, is this their power band to do this for one or two years? Can he be here for three or four? Doesn't look like Boston is going anywhere, but they're going to have some turnover with their roster after this year. And then the Knicks and the Pacers look like they're the wild cards if they can stick around for a while, or they might have some drop off in the off season. So I just think the bigger opportunity is in the East. I just don't know what team that could be. And obviously, if you put Giannis in a Knicks jersey, he's already an international star. You throw him in a New York Knicks jersey, oh, my goodness gracious. They could be. He could be the hero they've been waiting for for a long, long time.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. And we also have not mentioned another team that has been in the conversation with Giannis a lot of time, and that's the other team in New York, and that's the Brooklyn Nets. There's a lot of. They have a lot of space, have a lot of assets. I think that he's moving into sort of a rebuild with that team. I don't know. I don't see a way that that Brooklyn Nets team becomes a contender now. He's moving to another sort of Milwaukee situation. So that's what makes it tricky. They have assets that Milwaukee may want, but I also think that Milwaukee, you would hope, are not going to be in a position where they, you know, throw Giannis under the bus and put him in a situation that he doesn't want to be in.

[Brandon Leak]

Yeah, the best. Yeah, the best way to that point is to do it, is to not make him at all look like a villain or look like somebody's running out of town or as things look like they're starting to get bad. Now he wants to escape it should not be any of that temperature coming from the room. It should be, you know what, we've met all of our obligations. He has exceeded what a lot of people thought he was going to be able to do. He brought us a title and now it's time for the franchise to go in a different direction. And we wish him well in his endeavors as we rebuild the Milwaukee Bucks. That should be on the PR statement for Milwauke if he is on the move.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, have a joint press conference, sit with the owners, sit with the gm, say we've come to this decision together. We're going to figure out something that works for Giannis. You know, shake hands, you say all the right things, have him come back on his first game back to Milwaukee, do the videos, unveil the plan to do a statue. Really, you know, let everybody know what he means, that city of Milwaukee and, you know, have a really pleasant breakup, which is something that we do not see enough of in the NBA. And I think that this can go well for all parties.

[Brandon Leak]

All right, coming up, we look at game seven between the warriors and Rockets. He is David Dennis Jr. I'm home team Brandon Leak. This is Sunday morning on ESPN Radio and the ESPN app.

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Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

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It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] Matt and Myron the podcast may the fourth be with you. Everybody who is a Star wars buff or junkie knows what today means. You'll see it in the ballparks across Major League Baseball. Tonight, we'll see what happens in a basketball arena for game seven. Warriors and Rockets. Who will the fourth be with tonight? This is Sunday Morning on ESPN Radio, the ESPN app and Sirius XM channel 80. Home team Brandon Leak and David Dennis Jr. ESPN Sunday Morning is presented to you by Progressive Insurance. We get a Game 7. Is it the time that the Rockets, they move on with the young folks and Fred Van Vliet and their coach, Ema Udoka, and they slay the dragon of the Golden State warriors, who have been in a bunch of battles, certainly put up memorable postseason and championship moments. Or do the old guys, who aren't haggard, they're just older, do the old experienced guys find a way to go on the road into Houston and get themselves a game seven victory tonight? David Dennis Jr. I think it favors the warriors to keep this close. That's where their experience can overtake. They are being outplayed the last two games by the Rockets with their zone defense. And Stephen Adams has been an absolute madman on the boards. That being said, it is hard to beat any team three times in a row and that's what the Rockets are going to have to do in order to move on in the postseason. And I think if this game is close, the experience of Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler and Stephen Curry certainly can overcome a loud crowd and some really tough players in Houston.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, that's what your hope has to be right now with that warriors team. Steph Curry, Jimmy Butler, all you got right now. The problem with this series for the warriors is that the Rockets are gaining, guys, they're gaining. Fred Van Fleet, who is playing a lot better. They're gaining. You know, Amen Thompson is playing a lot better. Steve Adams has settled into this series at a plus 53 when he's on the court. The warriors are losing players. Pods barely showed up. Buddy Hill did not score. Kuminga literally has not shown up in this series. Moses Moody has been having some good games, but you got to worry about how much faith Steve Kerr has in him. It's got to be down to the stars. Those are the people who are going to, you know, carry you right now. You know that Steph Curry had 50 points last time that he was in game seven. You know, Jimmy Butler is beating Boston in Boston in Game 7. Those are the guys are gonna have to do it right now because otherwise they are being critically outmanned right now.

[Brandon Leak]

This Rockets team is tough. Ima Udoka is tough. His culture is tough. And it just begs the question what I've seen the last two games, you know, series on seven games, you're going to go back and forth and then, you know, the little moments make the difference. But I can't say that the warriors aren't the lesser team. I'm looking at a situation where the Rockets are the better team right now and they have a grand opportunity to prove it. It's just the lure, the specter and the achievements of the guys on the warriors that certainly will be in the way because Jimmy Butler has carried a team in Miami to the NBA Finals a couple of times and Steph Curry has hit every big shot that you can possibly make in a championship situation.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, but and here's the thing, is that whenever you have a team go from down from 3:1 and make it to the game seven, they always have momentum, they don't always win, right? And so like that, that's the, that's the thing. Now a lot of those teams do not have home court advantage at all times. That's another big part of it. But I mean this is experience versus being old, right? If the warriors experience there can get them, get them, you know, carry them, that's great. But if they go out there and look old, that's a whole different ball game. And if Stephen Adams and Shingoon, all those guys are being, are hounding them defensively with that zone defense and the warriors come out looking old, they're in trouble. Now the other wild card here is Jalen Green, who has been up and down this series, who's been trying to figure this thing out, who had a big 38 point game in game two and has been mostly non existent. Fred Van Fleet has been there to carry the load, but we got to see we're going to get from him.

[Brandon Leak]

We talked to Ryan Hollins, Houston Rockets TV analyst and ESPN radio host, earlier today here on Sunday morning and he talked about how the Rockets could overcome the experience of the Warriors.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The way they're going to do it is with their energy, with their effort. Houston is probably the better team that I've seen this group right here at being able to guard Steph Curry, being able to get up, pressure him, switch him out high. And one thing Ime Udoka and Rafael Stone have done a great job of is putting together a roster that has enough athletes, has enough guys top to bottom. So really making Curry have to take tough contested twos and forcing him off the three point line and saying somebody else has to beat you. And in terms of Jimmy Butler, you play him tough, you make him work and you have a high level of respect for what he can bring to the in games like this.

[Brandon Leak]

How much does the defense stymie the Golden State offense? And can Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry carry the load for Golden State warriors and Rockets? Game 7 on ESPN tonight. Coverage begins at 8:00 Eastern on ESPN radio. So can Jimmy Butler get past the zone? Can the ball get out of the hands of the shooter that has got the two defenders on him quickly and they find holes in the defense? Can Steph Curry get through some screens and find some holes? How much is Steve Kerr in charge of finding a way to break through this defense with an older team that doesn't have the shooting it had a few years ago?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Well, this is the thing. Steve Kerr has got to figure out these rotations. I mean, you had to pinpoint who is playing well, keep them in and you got to maybe take some risks. Kavon Looney has been playing a lot. Maybe you can try to get him to get some rebounds. Kaminga, let's give Kaminga a shot out there. Maybe you put Moses Moody on Fred Van Fleet a little bit more than you've been putting GP2 on him. Maybe you, you know, let pods go out there and handle the ball a little bit. Like there are some things that you can figure out. But Steve Kerr's margin of error is so small. You make one wrong move for three minutes with this warriors team and that Rockets team, you could be on a 100 run or be on the wrong side of a 100 run and that can mess you up for the rest of the game.

[Brandon Leak]

Oh, we'll have a chance to see who is going to push through. I think the NBA has a win, win situation. If the Rockets get through, they get a young team to give Fred Van Vliet going back into a deep run in the postseason. Potentially, you get Jalen Green in another round, you get a great second round matchup with the Timberwolves and Ant Man. If the warriors make it, you get the same storylines. Can the old guys keep doing it? Can Draymond and Jimmy and Steph find a way to get through the tough gauntlet of the Western Conference with the T Wolves waiting and chomping at the.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Bit to yeah, I mean, we have some great series ahead of us. It's Steph Curry really, and Draymond and Jimmy are really the last of the old heads left, right, the last of the old guard there. They're out of there. It's all young folks, it's all young players playing in the, in the playoffs. You have a Rockets, Timberwolves series that's all young dudes. I think the Timberwolves have a better shot against the Rockets than they do against against the warriors, but that's just, you know, but I've been underestimated the Rockets, I guess, this whole entire time. So we're never not totally sure what that is, but we're going to have great playoffs as we wind down a first round that has been one of the more entertaining first rounds we've seen.

[Brandon Leak]

Yeah, I think we're going to get our money's worth and the question will be what's left in the tank for the Warriors? Do they have enough to see it all the way through? And for the Rockets and Ema Udoka, they have a lot that they can prove thanks for listening to Matt and Myron the Podcast. You can listen to the show live every Sunday morning at 10am Eastern on ESPN radio, the ESPN app, and on.

[Matt Myron]

Sirius XM channel 80.

[Brandon Leak]

Matt and Myron the Podcast hey, I'm Brad Milke. You may know me as the host of ABC Audio's daily news podcast Start Here. But I'd like to add aspiring true crime expert to my resume and here's how I'm going to make it happen. Every week I'm going to unpack the biggest true crime story that everyone is talking about. ABC's got some unique access here, so I'll talk to the reporters and producers who have followed these cases for months, sometimes years. We'll bring you the latest developments and the larger context on the true crime stories you've been hearing about. Follow the crime scene for special access to the people who know these stories best.