Sunday Nights with Bill Crews - 12 July

Summary

Sunday Nights with Rev. Bill Crews – 12 July 2026 (Tapt Media)

Episode Overview

This episode of “Sunday Nights with Bill Crews” delves into the tapestry of Australian life—spanning social norms, serious societal issues, and stories of overcoming adversity. Rev. Bill Crews welcomes listeners into his "congregation of kindness", explores the hidden tragedy of child sexual abuse within families, examines the social impact of recent telecommunication outages, highlights inspiring work with migrant and refugee women, and presents the potential of sports fiction to spark a love for reading among young men. The episode is rich with listener calls, candid insights, and heartfelt stories.

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Major Themes and Segment Breakdowns

1. Congregation of Kindness & Opening Reflections

[00:10–01:41]

• Bill opens the show by building a sense of community and kindness, warmly addressing listeners wherever they are.
• The need for empathy and communal support is spotlighted—“You do not have to be in this world all alone.” (Bill Cruz, [01:08])
• Co-host reinforces the message: “My God, the world needs kindness today, doesn’t it?” ([00:44])
• Invitation for listener participation is extended throughout.

2. Technology as a Critical Utility—The Telco Outage Debate

[02:09–08:55; 40:22–48:39; 74:48–78:34]

• Bill reflects on the national impact of a major telecommunications outage, raising questions about accountability:
  • “000 is the number one number Australians expect to work every single time. No exceptions.” ([05:00])
• The outage’s ripple effects on transport, banking, emergencies are discussed, with listener calls reflecting diverse frustrations and concerns.
• Siv, a regular contributor, weighs in on government responsibility and regulation:
  • “Why are we not dictating to the phone companies... that they should be providing top grade service? Nearly all of the time.” (Siv, [10:15])
• Bill shares a cautionary note on privatization using the UK water sector as an example, reinforcing the need for stricter standards and backup systems.
• Listener Todd spotlights infrastructure fragility: “If we run out of electricity, we have nothing... we haven't left any hint for major, major situations." ([44:26])
• The importance of satellites and maintaining legacy phone systems as critical backup is debated.

Notable Quotes

• “Should telecommunications companies be held to the same standard [as electricity and water]? For years, they have consistently ranked among Australia’s least trusted industries...” (Bill Cruz, [05:44], reiterated throughout)
• “We need to look at another option in our society... What is the other next next best thing? It’s satellite.” (Todd, [47:51])

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3. Unwritten Australian Social Rules

[06:04–08:55; 36:23–40:22; 78:42–81:42]

• Bill humorously explores “unwritten rules” that shape Australian society—from “bring a plate” BBQ etiquette, to whether it’s ever acceptable to turn up empty-handed.
• Discussion includes pub queue dynamics, “thanking the bus driver,” returning shopping trolleys, holding lifts, standing on escalators, and other tacit codes.
• Bill muses, “Maybe these unwritten rules are part of what gives Australia its character… enforced by a raised eyebrow, a sideways glance…” ([08:40])
• Listeners are encouraged to share their own unwritten rules and reflections on how these invisible codes evolve.

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4. Societal Strains—War, Kindness, and Stupidity

[12:06–15:36]

• Pam, a regular caller, voices anxieties about global conflicts and the erosion of basic decency:
  • “People are becoming more and more selfish, greedy, obsessed with power, and the simple norms of kindness and consideration are going out the door…” (Pam, [12:09])
• Bill agrees: “It kind of feels like 1939… and then it all comes up again.” ([13:56])
• The pair reflect on historical cycles, the weight of ignorance, and the need for humility.

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5. Veterans & Social Justice

[15:41–18:16]

• Graham, an army veteran, shares frustration over cuts to veterans’ health support, contrasting government spending priorities:
  • "We fought for this country… I had people firing bullets at me…” (Graham, [17:40])
• Bill responds with empathy, urging activism and direct engagement with policymakers.

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6. Deep Dive: Child Sexual Abuse within Families – Interview with Tanya Lee (No Laughing Matter Podcast)

[18:16–29:27]

Key Points

• Bill introduces Tanya Lee (podcast: No Laughing Matter), a survivor and advocate working to break the silence surrounding child sexual abuse, especially incest.
• Tanya shares the creative approach of having well-known Australians narrate survivors’ stories chosen by the survivors, to “bring those deeply personal experiences to a wider audience with compassion and dignity.” (Bill Cruz, [18:38])
• The unique shame and denial associated with family-based abuse (incest/intrafamilial abuse) is discussed:
  • “The family is a sacred ground… It’s like the ultimate elephant in the room. And my job is to downsize the elephant.” (Tanya Lee, [20:41])
• Survivors’ struggle with stigma, the lasting trauma, addiction, and the complex emotions toward perpetrators is addressed.
  • “A lot of victim survivors feel the shame of other people, the judgement. It’s often not even their shame they’re carrying.” (Tanya Lee, [23:01])
• Tanya underscores that most cases are not isolated but part of wider family dysfunction.
• The podcast has won an international award and is used by agencies as an educational tool.
• Tanya shares available resources: Bravehearts, Stepping Out (free for females), and SAMSN (for men).
• She highlights the importance of listening and believing survivors: "If you line up 10 children, at least 8 of those 10 have been sexually abused by a family member.” (Tanya Lee, [24:15])
• The importance of public awareness is emphasized, including an upcoming event in Surry Hills.

Notable Quotes

• “People just don’t want to even comprehend that [the family] could be that unsafe.” (Tanya Lee, [20:41])
• “I’m really driven, like, I’m on a mission to fill that gap. And I know I’m slowly succeeding and I’m not prepared to give up.” (Tanya Lee, [22:25])
• “They feel less alone… there’s so much similarity in our stories.” (Tanya Lee, [24:15])

Resources Shared

• No Laughing Matter podcast: nolaughingmatter.org, also on Spotify
• Bravehearts, Stepping Out, SAMSN for survivor support

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7. Politics, Media, and Human Rights

[29:31–35:40; 48:45–56:55]

• Bill discusses the rise of “Count Binface” in UK politics, using humor to highlight political fatigue and the decline of right-wing populism:
  • “The one thing right-wing populists can’t stand is humor because it sends them up.” ([32:21])
• The self-immolation protest by Lobga Renzin, a Tibetan man at the UN, is a springboard to discuss suppression of minorities by the Chinese government and the convergence of politics and religion:
  • “Politics and religion are mixed together because you can’t talk about human justice… without standing up to the forces of evil in this world.” (Bill Cruz, [35:15])
• Later, a listener brings up the royal commission into antisemitism and scrutiny over media coverage of Gaza. Bill emphasises the importance of nuance, empathy for both Jewish and Muslim communities, and the real-life impact of the conflict on Australian children and families.

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8. Lead Connect & the Ishine Program – Empowering Migrant and Refugee Women

[57:00–68:35]

Summary

• Sharmali Mukherjee from Lead Connect shares how the Ishine program helps women from migrant and refugee backgrounds overcome employment barriers.
• “Talent is everywhere. But opportunity isn’t. The biggest barrier isn’t capability, it’s opportunity.” (Sharmali Mukherjee, [58:13])
• The program offers training, mentoring (often pairing women with mentors of similar backgrounds), and supervised work placements to build local experience and confidence.
• Bill shares a moving story of a participant who, despite being a qualified architect, had to take a low-skilled job—but through Ishine, started reclaiming her confidence and career pathway.
• Another success story: Shivani, an engineer whose first pay through Ishine was highly meaningful.
• The program also helps employers become more inclusive and appreciate the loyalty and professionalism of diverse women.

Notable Quotes

• “One opportunity can change a life.” (Sharmali Mukherjee, [67:46])
• “They're a godsend to Australia.” (Bill Cruz, [68:20])

Contact

• Organisation: leadconnect.org.au

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9. Listeners’ Stories: Faith, Healing, and Australian History

[69:07–73:14]

• Listener Ben asks for prayers for his wife in ICU, and Bill leads a heartfelt prayer.
• Ray, a first-time caller, discusses early Aboriginal history and the overlooked role of missions and foster care, prompting Bill to encourage all to read and reflect on national history.

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10. Reflections: The Power of Story, Family Memories & Kindness

[81:42–109:45]

• Bill shares personal memories—joyful recollections of driving his daughters to school with their impromptu car concerts ([81:57]).
• Shares Sean’s story—a homeless youth’s brief life and poignant autobiography found posthumously—illustrating the quiet tragedies among society’s most vulnerable ([83:30–92:43]).
• Bill reflects on multicultural Australia and the deep value in cultural diversity, contrasting it with monocultural ideologies.
• Shares a powerful experience from the Calais “Jungle” refugee camp, where being comforted by people at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting, “the people we regard as the lowest of the low gave me my life back.” ([108:05])
• The night ends with gratitude and a blessing on listeners.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Time (approx.) | |-----------------------------------|----------------------| | Opening, congregation of kindness | 00:10–01:41 | | Telco outage/critical infrastructure | 02:09–08:55, 40:22–48:39, 74:48–78:34 | | Unwritten Australian rules | 06:04–08:55, 36:23–40:22, 78:42–81:42 | | Listener call: war, kindness | 12:06–15:36 | | Veterans’ support | 15:41–18:16 | | Interview: Tanya Lee (No Laughing Matter) | 18:16–29:27 | | Count Binface/UK politics | 29:31–32:23 | | Tibet & minorities, politics & religion | 33:08–35:40 | | Lead Connect/Ishine: Sharmali Mukherjee | 57:00–68:35 | | Listener prayer/Aboriginal history | 69:07–73:14 | | Family memories/sean's story | 81:42–92:43 | | Interview: Paul Laverty/Ripper 2 | 92:43–104:21 | | Refugee stories/Calais reflection | 104:23–109:10 |

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Memorable Quotes

• “We don't like seeing children dying. We don't like seeing… a bunch of terrorists breaking in and raping and killing people... Most people just throw up their hands and say, oh my God, I can't work this out.” — Bill Cruz ([53:02])
• “A lot of victim survivors feel the shame of other people, the judgment. It's often not even their shame they're carrying.” — Tanya Lee ([23:01])
• “Talent is everywhere. But opportunity isn’t. The biggest barrier isn’t capability, it’s opportunity.” — Sharmali Mukherjee ([58:13])
• “The people we regard as the lowest of the low gave me my life back.” — Bill Cruz, reflecting on his time in Calais ([108:05])
• “They're a godsend to Australia.” — Bill Cruz, on refugee and migrant women working hard and contributing ([68:20])

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a tapestry of stories: hard-hitting interviews, listener reflections, urgent social issues, and moving testimonies. Bill Crews’ welcoming, compassionate tone threads it all together, fostering both empathy and action. For listeners, it’s a reminder that every community has its unwritten rules, every individual their private struggles, and every society a responsibility to look out for its own.

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For more information:

• No Laughing Matter Podcast
• Lead Connect / Ishine Program
• Rev Bill Cruz

Transcript

[Bill Cruz]

Welcome to Sunday Night Cruise.

[Pam]

Imagine all the people living life in peace.

[Caller/Listener]

You.

[Bill Cruz]

And now, here's your radio. Reverend Bill Cruz, a great big warm

welcome to your Sunday night family.

[Caller/Listener]

You.

[Bill Cruz]

Yes, you. You driving your car. You are so welcome here. And I'm saying be part of our congregation of kindness.

[Co-host/Assistant]

My God, the world needs kindness today, doesn't it?

[Bill Cruz]

And you can see more about that

[Co-host/Assistant]

by going to RevBillCruise.com and join our congregation of kindness.

[Bill Cruz]

But tonight we're all together on air on digital and online. And you can call in now. Call in and share with us on 131873.

[Co-host/Assistant]

You do not have to be in

[Bill Cruz]

this world all alone. So coming up this hour, I'll be joined by Tanya Lee, founder of the no Laughing Matter podcast. We'll be talking about one of the most difficult and often hidden issues facing our community, child sexual abuse within families. Tanya will share why it's so important to break the silence, how the podcast is giving victim survivors a voice, and why these conversations matter if we're ever

[Co-host/Assistant]

going to create real change after 10

[Bill Cruz]

tonight, I'll be joined by Sharmali Mukherjee from Lead Connect. We'll be talking about the Ishine program and the incredible work it's doing to help women from migrant and refugee backgrounds find meaningful employment. For many, the biggest hurdle is simply getting that first chance to gain local work experience. We'll hear how this program is building confidence, creating opportunities and changing lives one

[Co-host/Assistant]

job at a time.

[Bill Cruz]

And in our last hour, we'll meet author and creative writing PhD PJ Laverty, who's using the world's biggest sport to tackle a very different challenge, getting more men and boys to read his latest novel, Ripper 2. Young Pilgrim is a funny and heartfelt story about soccer or football, family identity and belonging. We'll find out why he believes sport can be the perfect gateway into books, how his own journey from Scotland to Australia shaped the story, and why some of life's biggest lessons happen well away from the playing field. Now, we all rely on our phones and Internet every single day. In fact, most of us probably don't even think about it until suddenly it all stops. This week, that's exactly what's happened. A major telco outage disrupted services across Australia. Regional train lines were affected. EFTPOS machines stopped working. Businesses were unable to process payments. Thousands of people were left without reliable mobile or Internet access. But the most worrying part, over 600 calls to Triple Zero failed to connect during the outage. Just think about that for a moment. 600 Australians dialed the number we trust in an emergency and didn't get through as expected. Now, thankfully, authorities have said alternative arrangements meant emergency services were still able to respond in many cases. But surely that's beside the point. 000 is the number one number Australians expect to work every single time. No exceptions. So here's the question. Have mobile and Internet networks become so essential that they should now be treated like electricity? We water and gas. Think about your own day. You pay for your coffee with your phone. You transfer money online. You work from home. Businesses rely on cloud services. Families stay connected through mobile networks. Even many security systems and medical devices now depend on reliable Internet connections. If the power goes out, there are investigations. If the water supply is interrupted, there are strict rules and accountability. Should telecommunications companies be held to the same standard? For years, telecommunications companies have consistently ranked among Australia's least trusted industries. Australians complain about black spots, dropped calls, poor customer service and rising prices. But when an outage disrupts transport, banking and emergency calls, this becomes much more than an inconvenience. It's about public safety. Should the federal government classify telecommunications as essential public infrastructure and impose much tougher financial penalties when widespread outages occur? Or would that simply increase costs for consumers without preventing these failures? Tonight we want to hear from you. How did the outage affect your day? Were you unable to work? Did your business lose money? Were you left stranded? And after hearing that around 600 calls to Triple Zero failed to connect, do you think enough is being done to make sure Australia's telcos are as reliable as the services we've come to depend on? Come on. Give us a call on 131873. We'd love to hear your thoughts. It's about accountability. Should we be treating your home Internet and mobile connection as an essential utility? Give us a call on 131 8.

[Co-host/Assistant]

We'd love to hear.

[Bill Cruz]

We've all heard the phrase.

[Siv]

It's just common.

[Bill Cruz]

You're listening to.

Really? Or is it something we simply grow up knowing without anyone ever writing it down? Australia has plenty of laws. We know the speed limits. We know we have to wear seat belts.

[Pam]

And.

[Bill Cruz]

And we know what day we have to put the bins out. But then there are the rules that don't exist on paper. The unwritten rules. The ones that somehow every Aussie is just expected to know. Take the classic backyard barbecue. If the invitation says bring a plate, do you automatically know? It means bring a plate of food to share, not an empty dinner plate. For anyone new to Australia, that little phrase has probably caused Plenty of confusion over the years. And what about turning up empty handed? Is that ever acceptable? Should you always bring a salad, dessert, drinks or something to contribute? Even if the host says, don't worry about it, is there an unspoken expectation that you ignore those words and bring something anyway? And then there's pub etiquette. You've been waiting patiently to order a drink. Someone walks straight into the front and catches the bartender's eye. Do you speak up? Do you let it slide? Is queue jumping one of the great Australian sins? Or consider thanking the bus driver. In many parts of Australia, it's almost automatic. But is it becoming less common? Should we still be doing it? What about waving when someone lets you merge in traffic? Returning your shopping trolley, holding the lift for someone who's just a few steps behind, Standing on the left or the right of an escalator, not loudly talking during a movie? There are dozens of these little social rules that make life smoother. But nobody ever set us down and taught em. What about what happens when someone breaks one? Do you quietly judge them? Do you call them out? Or do you simply shrug your shoulders and move on? Maybe these unwritten rules are part of what gives Australia its character. They're not enforced by police or courts. They're enforced by a raised eyebrow, a sideways glance, or the feeling you got somehow committed a social foul. So tonight I want to hear from you. What do you think are the absolute unwritten rules of being Australian? Which ones should never be broken? Which? Are some of those odd social codes starting to disappear? Come on, call us. Call me now on 131873. I'd love to hear the little rules

[Co-host/Assistant]

that everyone should know, even if nobody's ever actually written them down.

[Bill Cruz]

And here's Kenny and Dolly. Islands in the stream. Hey, Siv. Welcome to the show, brother. Wow, Great to be here, Bill.

[Siv]

I wasn't expecting that.

[Bill Cruz]

No, we're having technical difficulties, mate. So.

[Siv]

Hello, world, it's. Hello, world. It's a technical difficulty. I'm here to make it hard for you. This Telstra thing. You just let me nicely into that. This Sol Telstra issue. What irks me about this is, well, a couple of things. One, the government which creates the environment and makes the regulations to its ministers, constantly stands up there, gives me commentary and tells me how bad it is and saying it's not good enough. We know that, Minister Wells. We know that, Prime Minister.

[Bill Cruz]

Fix it.

[Graham]

You're the ones in charge.

[Siv]

I know we made a terrible mistake way back when and we decided. Or when the Federal Government actually Decided that are we going to get out of the whole. Running the telecommunications. Because it was thought the government can't run things properly. That might be true. The government doesn't run things all that well. But hang on a moment, I mean, hang on a moment of the regulations.

[Bill Cruz]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Siv]

You know, so, so I think, I think, I think there's something to be said to the fact that telecommunications should be treated as, essentially as essentialists, as, as energy. And government can still, I mean, we still dictate to the private sector how it should run its businesses, what it should pay its workers and so on. Why are we not dictating to the phone companies of the Internet providers? You should be, you should be providing top grade service. Nearly all of the time breaks down, have a backup.

[Bill Cruz]

You actually bring up a really interesting issue, sieve, because, you know, in England they privatised the water and now there's sewerage everywhere because everybody was making money, except they were putting, they weren't putting money into making the water better. And the government would have done a much better job with that. So, you know, I think there's been this.

[Siv]

But my point, my overall point simply is this, Bill, we. The government spends its life, particularly labor government spends its life telling, you know, private enterprise what they should pay their workers, how they should run their businesses, you know, who they should be hiring, all this stuff. That's fine. So why are you not using that same bully pulpit to tell the phone companies that they should be having backup, they should be having all these different things that are supposed to be there

[Tanya Lee]

so that when you actually pick up

[Siv]

the phone to ring something as important as triple zero, what's more important than triple zero?

[Pam]

It works.

[Caller/Listener]

It works.

[Tanya Lee]

They should be doing it.

[Siv]

And don't tell me once again, Minister, Minister Wells and Prime Minister, please don't tell me it's not, it's not good enough. If I ever hear that again, I'm going to throw something at my radio. Good stalking, Bill.

[Bill Cruz]

Good on. Good on you, Sif. Thanks for your call. Hello, Pam.

[Pam]

Oh, good evening, Bill.

[Bill Cruz]

Hello.

[Pam]

You know, I was just thinking, we're living in a world where people are becoming more and more selfish, greedy, obsessed with power and the simple norms of kindness and consideration are going out the door. Now that leads me to the case of safety, security and peace have never been so threatened in my living memory. And what's happening now in the Middle east and then between Russia and Ukraine, it's anyone's guess what's going to happen.

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, it is, it is, it is.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

So do you find yourself not sleeping at night thinking about all of this?

[Pam]

No, it's reality. I mean, it's horrific, but. No, what's the point? I mean, I can well understand it. Those people in those countries that day and night under threat, that's a totally different situation. But the thing is, Putin and the ayatollahs in Iran are playing Trump for an idiot. They are biding time the whole while.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Pam]

How it's going to be resolved, I don't know.

[Bill Cruz]

It's almost like

[Pam]

we could be on the verge of something really horrific.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

It's a worry, isn't it? And I've never known so many people saying exactly what you're saying, Pam. I've never known it. There's people and it kind of. At times it almost feels like 1939, and then it kind of limps away and we kind of breathe a little bit, and then it all comes up again.

[Pam]

Well, throughout the world, I mean, even between the wars ongoing, there's been skirmishes and problems in certain areas. But what's going on now, if it goes awry, will affect the entire world.

[Bill Cruz]

I was watching a podcast the other day with a guy who wrote one of the books, and he was saying one of the greatest driving forces in humanity is sheer stupidity.

[Pam]

Well, there is something to that.

[Bill Cruz]

There is something to that.

[Pam]

Well, what I find is the people who know the least assume they know the most.

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pam]

And those who know. Well, nobody knows everything. But the point is those with sort of knowledge and thirst for more don't have to brag, you know.

[Co-host/Assistant]

No, no, no.

[Bill Cruz]

But all these people who think they've

[Co-host/Assistant]

got the answer in one and bang, just goes, indeed.

[Bill Cruz]

Pam, thanks for your call. Thank you.

[Pam]

Have a lovely week.

[Bill Cruz]

Thank you. We'll go to Graham. Hello, Graham.

[Graham]

Hiya, mate. Look, I'm an army war veteran. They keep hitting the ones we fought for. This country, they've dropped it to $5,000 for any Medicare. I don't know whether you heard that,

[Bill Cruz]

but it's the truth.

[Graham]

They've dropped it to 5,000. Now, that wouldn't pay for an amputee. For someone who's lost their legs in war, which I know, quite new people. But, Billy, the PM now has given to a football team up North Queensland, has given them billions to start a football team. But real Australians know it's just to get votes. Billy, you know, he's just throwing money around like a drunken sailor. But it doesn't go to the right ones, Billy. There's ndis people Struggling, struggling out there and it's, it's. The ones who work for them are ripping the system off. But, but Billy, they, they just hit, hit the veterans and the disabled people. Why they do that? They're shocking. This TM's terrible.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

And, and they're cutting back on veterans pensions. Are they health benefits?

[Graham]

They are, Billy. I tell you the truth. They've cut it back to 5,000.

[Bill Cruz]

And what was it before?

[Graham]

Oh, look, it was way up to, I think about 25 around there. But no vets. And vets will ring in. No Vets can afford 5,000. Wouldn't pay for a big tow operation.

[Bill Cruz]

That's right, yeah.

[Graham]

Billy, you know, we, we fought for this country. You know, I had people firing bullets at me, trying to kill me and I'm thinking I will drop it to 5,000. How shocking is that? How dare they. Billy, you know.

[Bill Cruz]

Have you sent an email to the minister?

[Graham]

No, but I will tomorrow.

[Bill Cruz]

You do it mate, and send a copy to me.

[Graham]

I'll send a copy to you too.

[Bill Cruz]

God bless you, Graham. Thanks for your call.

[Graham]

Bless you, Billy.

[Co-host/Assistant]

You do it. Good on ya.

[Bill Cruz]

Tonight we're tackling one of the most difficult and least talked about issues in our society. Child sexual abuse within families. While Australia has had major inquiries into institutional abuse, many experts say abuse that happens behind closed doors in the family

[Co-host/Assistant]

home remains one of our greatest hidden problems. Tanya Lee is the founder and producer

[Bill Cruz]

of no Laughing Matter, a powerful podcast series that shares the real stories of victims, survivors of incest. It's a unique approach. Those stories are narrated by well known Australians, including comedians, actors, journalists and broadcasters, even myself, chosen by the survivors themselves, helping to bring those deeply personal experiences to a wider audience with compassion and dignity. Tanya, herself a survivor of incest, has dedicated years to breaking the silence surrounding this issue and encouraging Australians to confront what has long remained hidden.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Welcome to the program, Tanya.

[Tanya Lee]

Oh, thank you Rev Bill. That was a great introductory. I don't need to say any more now.

[Bill Cruz]

So darling, what inspired you to create no Laughing Matter?

[Tanya Lee]

I initially did a lot of events on incest and I learnt how to work with the audience and not have upset anyone, have them leave the room. And that was by having someone like Jean Kitson narrate Deborah Byrne's story and Fiona o' Loughlin narrating another victim survivor's story. And the room was able to respond to it in a positive way. Not positive way, but in an understanding way and not get too upset. So I transferred that to the podcast series and predominantly it was going to Be just comedians telling stories. That's why it was called no laughing matter and telling the student, the comedians telling it in their natural voices, like in a dignified way. But then other victim survivors, they started to choose people like Craig Foster and yourself and Hugo Weaving and Andrew Denton and. And it just. It started to change. So it's not just comedians. So that's why.

[Bill Cruz]

Then why is it so difficult, do you think, for people to talk about it?

[Tanya Lee]

The family is a sacred ground, and people just don't want to even comprehend that it could be that unsafe. And we know that, you know, most of the damage does happen at home, but incest is just like that next level of. It's like the ultimate elephant in the room. And my job is to downsize the elephant. But people, we can talk about institutional child sexual abuse, and we could talk about it relatively easily these days, but the topic of incest, I mean, the actual correct term is intrafamilial child sexual abuse. And the average punter doesn't even know what that means. Like, incest has become a dirty word. And I mean, it's a dirty word status, but I call it for what it is, and it's incest.

[Bill Cruz]

So as someone with lived experience, what have you learned from working alongside so

[Co-host/Assistant]

many other victim survivors?

[Tanya Lee]

That the road they travel is a tough one. And they never, ever. They get well in ways, but it just never leaves you. The stain is always there. And I mean, if you're lucky to live a long life and it hasn't consumed you with drugs and alcohol, because that's generally a road that a lot of survivors have. Well, victim survivors have taken. And I too, have been a product of addiction. But I. What was I saying? I've completely gone rev.

[Bill Cruz]

It's all right. So what's done that's cognitive damage from alcohol, like doing the program, Doing the whole program, what has it helped you? How's it helped you with trauma healing and recovery?

[Tanya Lee]

I don't know that it has. There you go. Sometimes my partner says, you know, you never get away from it. You're, like, immersed in it. And I'm really driven. Like, I'm on a mission to fill that gap. And I know I'm slowly succeeding and I'm not prepared to give up. Not for, you know, I think I've got a couple more years in me, so. But I don't know that. Listen, I have really special connections with a lot of the women. They're predominantly women that are who tell the stories, but I've got quite a few Men.

[Bill Cruz]

So it's kind of shame. Is it still shameful?

[Tanya Lee]

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people who, a lot of victim survivors feel the shame of other people, the judgment. It's. So it's often not even their shame they're carrying. They're carrying the shame of everybody else. And especially when people don't want to know about the topic. I mean, it's, it's, it's in the shadows for good reason. Like, it's, it's, it's not easy.

[Bill Cruz]

But it protects the perpetrators, doesn't it?

[Tanya Lee]

Absolutely, it does. And, and you know, an incest is, is, is complicated because you often, I mean, like in my situation, it was my biological dad. I love my dad. I still, you know, even though he's no longer with us, I think of him oftentimes in fond ways. And I feel sad for what happened to us and especially to him, because when it came out, he owned everything that happened. I was one of the few people that was actually believed. And in a lot of times when people come out and have the courage to speak up and speak out, they're not believed. And that's just another layer of abuse.

[Bill Cruz]

So what kind of response have you received from survivors who've listened to the podcast?

[Tanya Lee]

Oh, it's, I mean, one that I hear so often is that they feel less alone. And the irony of that is, and I often say it at my events, if you line up 8, 8 children, 8 out of 10 children have been sexually. Sorry, 10 children are being sexually abused. At least 8 of those 10 have been sexually abused by a family member.

[Bill Cruz]

So it's, it's that common.

[Tanya Lee]

It's that common. And we just choose to not want to know that information. So the actual victim survivors, they feel less alone. And there's so much similarity in our stories. And you actually don't oftentimes don't hate your perpetrator, and you certainly don't want to see them go to jail. But if it's the next door neighbor or someone you don't know at all, I mean, you want to put them in jail, you want to have justice, but this is something that often isn't the case. It certainly, that was what my story was. I didn't want to break up my family. And when it came out, I was actually in my early 20s and it did break up my family. And the biggest victims were my younger brothers. They lost their family. And trust me, when a family, when there's incest in a family, there's a lot else going wrong. I mean, it's not just an isolated case of abuse. You know, my brothers were being neglected in ways, and my mum. My mum was a beautiful woman and had absolutely no idea. And when she did find out, it destroyed her world and she, you know, she felt like she played a role in it. Such enormous guilt.

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah. For someone who's listening on this, and this is touching, pressing with buttons, what would you encourage them to do?

[Tanya Lee]

Like, if they're. I. I would suggest a couple of organizations like Bravehearts or Stepping out to call them. And, and, and, and Stepping out especially has free programs for females and for men, there's an organization called Samson, and it's just male for all men of child sexual abuse. So that would be the first thing I'd say. And a lot of the services I know, particularly with Stepping out, they're free, so they're open to anyone because most of these people have financial struggles. You know, it impacts their health and their financial status and it affects everybody. I mean, it's a big load on social services all. It's, it's a tough one and it's. It's the one that we stay away from. It's a topic we stay away from most.

[Bill Cruz]

Now you're talking a lot.

[Tanya Lee]

Aren't I, Bill?

[Bill Cruz]

That's all right, darling. Your, your. The podcast is called no Laughing Matter. How do people find it?

[Tanya Lee]

It's nolaughing matter.org that's the website and it's also on Spotify. And we're now into our sixth and seventh theories. And I just won an international award last year. I was nominated by Professor Warwick Middleton, who's the number one expert in incest. And he. And my podcast is used as a resource to lots of various agencies and organisations, which makes me so proud because it's there for anyone to listen to, but I really want the everyday person to listen to it, to understand how common it is. Like, it's just we. And I often hear, oh, I don't know anybody who's suffered that. And I go, well, you know me, at least there's one person. And trust me, I know hundreds of people like me. But I just. Bill, I wanted to say that I have an event this Thursday that's on it in Surry Hills and Kippack street. And it's got. Jane Caro is facilitating the panel and we've got Zoe Karidis, I don't know if you know that name. She's an actor, film director. We're screening her short film, which is a really gentle information or informative film. About incest that she made 15 years ago. And on the panel we've got Zoe and we've got Grace Tame and Melissa Holmes from Stepping Out. So we've got a lovely evening that I would love some people to come along to and just to learn, learn some more.

[Bill Cruz]

Now, how do they get tickets or

[Tanya Lee]

whatever on humanity or they can go to the Coral, sorry, the no Laughing Matter website, which is nolaughing matter.org and I can get. I can send you the details when I get home and you can have them if anyone phones you.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Tanya, I gotta say, I'm proud to know you. I am so proud to know you.

[Tanya Lee]

I'm proud to know you and I'm so glad you did a podcast. You were asked. We did it together, didn't we?

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, we did.

[Co-host/Assistant]

God bless you, darling.

[Bill Cruz]

Thank you so much for talking to us tonight.

[Tanya Lee]

Thank you for having me.

[Bill Cruz]

Thank you.

You're with the radio, Reverend Bill Cruz.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

If that's raised any issues for you, give me a ring on 131. I want to ask you, have you heard of Count Binface? Count Binface, have you heard about him and his, his kind of relationship with

[Co-host/Assistant]

Nigel Farage in England?

[Bill Cruz]

Now, Nigel Farage, as you all know,

[Co-host/Assistant]

is kind of the Pauline Hanson of England.

[Bill Cruz]

And in lots of ways, Nigel Farage

[Co-host/Assistant]

is in Parliament and in England and

[Bill Cruz]

he's been under investigation for $5 million

[Co-host/Assistant]

that was given to him. Bit like, you know, some of these right wing politicians get money and all of this sort of stuff.

[Bill Cruz]

So he's under scrutiny. So he thought, what he thought he'd do was he'd resign his seat and

[Co-host/Assistant]

go back to his people, constituents in Clacton, which is in Essex, and he

[Bill Cruz]

would stand for Parliament. And he thought if they invite, if

[Co-host/Assistant]

they elect me back, you know, bugger the investigation.

[Bill Cruz]

The people have spoken, you see. Well, what the other political parties did was all three of them, the Conservatives,

[Co-host/Assistant]

the Labor Party and the Lib Democrats,

[Bill Cruz]

decided they wouldn't stand. They wouldn't stand. They weren't going to get caught up

[Co-host/Assistant]

in this political shenanigans.

[Bill Cruz]

They decided not to stand. So the one who stood is Count Binface, which is a guy with a

[Co-host/Assistant]

garbage can on his head.

[Bill Cruz]

And he'll probably win. He will probably win. And of course it'll make Nigel Farage look an idiot because his whole political shenanigans has fallen away. And what Count Binface has done, which is really interesting, is he's made Nigel Farage look like the political establishment which most of these right wing Populists are, they're very much part of the establishment and they are, they get all this

[Co-host/Assistant]

money from all these billionaires and all

[Bill Cruz]

of that sort of stuff. So they, they're quite, you know, quite popular and quite not so popular, but they're quite getting a good bit of money. So in, in August, Nigel Farage will be standing to get his seat back against Count Bin Face. And the one thing, the one thing right wing populists can't stand is humor because it sends them up. But the irony is Count Bin Face is sending up the whole political system because he's saying we need a new brand of politics and so don't vote for any of them, vote for me. But the one who's going to lose in all of this most, because you can imagine if he gets back in Farage with a lesser majority, he's going

[Co-host/Assistant]

to lose all that thing and people

[Bill Cruz]

are going to be laughing all the way to the election. So well done. And if he does win, and then he gets done by this parliamentary committee, which it's likely he will do, he'll have to stand again. So not only will he have got back into parliament against Count Bin Face, he'll have to face the whole election again and probably lose. So everybody watch Count Bin Face. There's a lesson in it for all of us. Now the other thing I want to talk about is on July 2nd in

[Co-host/Assistant]

New York, outside the United nations building, a 52 year old Tibetan man, Lobga Renzin, who's also known as Lobsang Palsen,

[Bill Cruz]

burned himself to death, set fire to

[Co-host/Assistant]

himself in front of the UN building.

[Bill Cruz]

And the reason he did that was because of what's happening to the Tibetan

[Co-host/Assistant]

people under the Chinese government.

[Bill Cruz]

The Chinese government wants to make everybody the same, a monoculture, a Chinese monoculture.

[Co-host/Assistant]

And that means everybody, everybody has to be Han Chinese.

[Bill Cruz]

So they're going to have a compulsory language and all of that and get rid of all this Tibetan stuff and get rid of all this Uyghur stuff and get rid of all these other minority stuff, let's pick on the minorities, get rid of them and just have a Chinese monoculture. Sound familiar? Well, anyway, the people who are suffering and they've suffered indignities for all these, all These years, over 60 years now, are the Tibetan people. And the terrible thing about this, the terrible thing about this is that I was celebrating with them yesterday for His

[Co-host/Assistant]

Holiness's 91st birthday and we had a big celebration in my church today. We had many of the monks there and many of The Rinpoches. The Rinpoches are the reincarnated leaders of Tibet, you know, and they're all there.

[Bill Cruz]

And what this awful thing about picking on minorities is doing now is the

[Co-host/Assistant]

Chinese government want to shut people up like me in other parts of the world.

[Bill Cruz]

They said not only are we going to shut up the Tibetans and the others, we're going to shut up those people in the Western society who speak to them. And what people refuse to see is

[Co-host/Assistant]

that politics and religion are mixed.

[Bill Cruz]

Mixed together. Mixed together because you can't talk about human justice. You can't talk about the kingdom of God. You can't talk about loving compassion without standing up to the forces of evil in this world. And the biggest force of evil in the world that I see at this

[Co-host/Assistant]

moment is the pressure on people not

[Bill Cruz]

to be who they are.

[Co-host/Assistant]

I work a lot with refugee women who need to get into the workforce. And coming up after the news, we'll be talking to one program I know which does a lot of good getting people into the workforce. And boy, when these women get a job, do they work.

[Pam]

Living life in peace.

[Bill Cruz]

You welcome back to Sunday Night Cruise with your radio. Reverend Bill Cruz, welcome back.

Dear listener, welcome back. Whether you're listening on the radio, on

[Co-host/Assistant]

the app or online, it's great to have your company. And if you're lonely and you think nobody thinks about you, that's what we're thinking about right now. Call us.

[Bill Cruz]

We'd love to hear from you. Call us on 131873 and join the congregation. And join the conversation. And join the Congregation of Kindness. You can learn more about [e-mail] Coming up this hour, I'll be joined by Sharmali Mukherjee from Lead Connect. We'll talk about the Ishine program and how it's helping women from migrant and refugee backgrounds gain local work experience, build confidence and find meaningful employment. Then next, our author and Creative Writing PhD, PJ Laverty, joins me to discuss his new novel, Ripper 2 Young Pilgrim. We'll explore why he believes football can inspire more men and boys to discover the joy of reading and how his own migrant story helped shape the book. We've all heard the phrase it's just common sense. But is it really? Or is it something we simply grow up knowing without anyone ever writing it down? Australia has plenty of laws. We know the speed limits. We know we have to wear seat belts. And we know what day we have to put the bins out. But then there are the rules that don't exist on paper, the unwritten rules, the ones that somehow every Aussie is just expected to know. Take the classic backyard barbecue. If the invitation says bring a plate, do you automatically know? It means bring a plate of food to share, not an empty dinner plate. For anyone new to Australia, that little phrase has probably caused plenty of confusion over the years. And what about turning up empty handed? Is that ever acceptable? Should you always bring a salad, dessert, drinks or something to contribute? Even if the host says don't worry about it, is there an unspoken expectation that you ignore those words and bring something anyway? And then there's pub etiquette. You've been waiting patiently to order a drink. Someone walks straight into the front and catches the bartender's eye. Do you speak up? Do you let it slide? Is queue jumping one of the great Australian sins? Or consider thanking the bus driver. In many parts of Australia, it's almost automatic. But is it becoming less common? Should we still be doing it? What about waving when someone lets you merge in traffic? Returning your shopping trolley? Holding the lift for someone who's just a few steps behind, standing on the left or the right of an escalator, not loudly talking during a movie? There are dozens of these little social rules that make life smoother. But nobody ever sat us down and taught them. What about what happens when someone breaks one? Do you quietly judge them? Do you call them out? Or do you simply shrug your shoulders and move on? Maybe these unwritten rules are part of what gives Australia its character. They're not enforced by police or courts. They're enforced by a raised eyebrow, a sideways glance, or the feeling you got somehow committed a social foul. So tonight I want to hear from you. What do you think are the absolute unwritten rules of being Australian? Which ones should never be broken? Which are some of those odd social codes starting to disappear? Come on, call us. Call me now on 131873. I'd love to hear the little rules

[Co-host/Assistant]

that that everyone should know, even if nobody's ever actually written them down.

[Bill Cruz]

Australia's favourite Sunday night radio with Bill Cruz.

Now, we all rely on our phones and Internet every single day. In fact, most of us probably don't even think about it until suddenly it all stops. This week that's exactly what's happened. A major telco outage disrupted services across Australia. Regional train lines were affected. EFTPOS machines stopped working. Businesses were unable to process payments. Thousands of people were left without reliable mobile or Internet access. But the most worrying part, over 600 calls to Triple Zero failed to connect during the outage. Just think about that for a moment. 600 Australians dialed the number we trust in an emergency and didn't get through as expected. Now thankfully, authorities have said alternative arrangements meant emergency services were still able to respond in many cases. But surely that's beside the point. 000 is the number one number Australians expect to work every single time. No exceptions. So here's the question. Have mobile and Internet networks become so essential that they should now be treated like electricity, water and gas? Think about your own day. You pay for your coffee with your phone. You transfer money online. You work from home. Businesses rely on cloud services. Families stay connected through mobile networks. Even many security systems and medical devices now depend on reliable Internet connections. If the power goes out, there are investigations. If the water supply is interrupted, there are strict rules and accountability. Should telecommunications companies be held to the same standard? For years, telecommunications companies have consistently ranked among Australia's least trusted industries. Australians complain about black spots, dropped calls, poor customer service and rising prices. But when an outage disrupts transport, banking and emergency calls, this becomes much more than an inconvenience. It's about public safety. Should the federal government classify telecommunications as essential public infrastructure and impose much tougher financial penalties when widespread outages occur? Or would that simply increase costs for consumers without preventing these failures? Tonight we want to hear from you. How did the outage affect your day? Were you unable to work? Did your business lose money? Were you left stranded? And after hearing that around 600 calls to Triple Zero failed to connect, do you think enough is being done to make sure Australia's telcos are as reliable as the services we've come to depend on? Come on. Give us a call on 131873. We'd love to hear your thoughts. It's about accountability. Should we be treating your home Internet and mobile connection as an essential utility? Give us a call on 131873. We'd love to hear your thoughts. I don't have to introduce this one.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Abba Waterloo.

[Bill Cruz]

Welcome to the show. Todd.

[Todd]

G', day, Bill. How are you, mate?

[Bill Cruz]

Good, thank you.

[Todd]

We're talking about mobile phone bills. And in regards to the technology and telecommunications of Australia, in my honest opinion, we have a situation that I. Internet mobile data has become a force going forward and it's become a critical infrastructure.

[Bill Cruz]

Yes.

[Todd]

The problem is that infrastructure solely requires on one main thing. It's called electricity.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Yeah.

[Todd]

If we run out of electricity, we have nothing. This is the other thing that we don't understand is the old days. In the old Days, the normal telephone at home run on six volts so you could still use a telephone in a power situation. You were still able to ring triple O with no power when you had a blackout, so you could pick up your normal phone and make a phone call. Now we rely on electricity so much. That has now annihilated the problem with triple O altogether, to the point where you have one option, your mobile phone or the Internet, which is the WI fi off your Internet, to ring AAA using your phone or a phone that you have use on your computer at home. That's it. Otherwise you might as well run down the road and try and find a telephone box that works.

[Graham]

Yep.

[Todd]

That's how we become. And we're relying on so much on that side of field and we haven't left any hint for major, major situations. So if we have a major disaster, we have nothing.

[Bill Cruz]

That's right.

[Todd]

That's field of communication.

[Bill Cruz]

That's why we need government regulation and government management of it, isn't it?

[Todd]

Well, yeah, but I also think to myself, all these people that have the old telephone cable lines, they should still be connected to your house because if something goes wrong, there's no electricity and you have to call for a triple O, you'll have a heart attack or somebody has a heart attack on your relatives. How are you going to make that phone call when you can't use any sort of. Your mobile phone don't work no more, your Internet's out. So how do you get that person to the hospital or anything like that? You, you've got no way, no communications whatsoever. This is why the old telephone network was still the best reliable thing. We didn't have these problems in the old days. You picked up the phone, you made the phone call.

[Bill Cruz]

Sometimes the word. The phones did go down, Todd.

[Todd]

Yeah, they did, but not as bad as I do. Not, not to the point where you couldn't find a way of contacting somebody to. To what you had a problem with.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

So what would you do, Todd? Would you bring phone lines back?

[Todd]

Well, I would still have the situation where every, anybody that has got a phone line at home, the original phone line that should still be able to be connected and still be as a backup for purposes. And while you're paying for everything, you're paying for all these mod cons, why can't we use the old system, have it back as a backup system?

[Bill Cruz]

I. I think the NBN is, is wired up to, isn't it?

[Todd]

Sorry, what was that?

[Bill Cruz]

The nbn, that's wide up in A lot of homes.

[Todd]

Yeah, but, yeah, but the nbn, you got to remember the nbn, well, every phone that's in the house, NBN is still required of electricity. So if you have a blackout, the NBN goes down, your phone line goes down because it runs off the nbn. So that, that solves that problem. The same with the mobile phone tower. The mobile phone tower in your area, especially in the country, if they have a blackout, there's only, it only lasts for a certain amount of time and then it dies. So then that becomes useless as well. So you've got no communication whatsoever for the whole township. So what do you do then? You've got nothing. So unless you want to send air, smoke signals, that's only the other option you have. We need to look at another option in our society and say to ourselves, what is the other next next best thing is satellite. We need to be able to have direct satellite access to people's phones. When their network goes out of commission. We should be able to connect to the satellite network and that should be paid by the government whichever way we have to pay for it. We're the public servants. We have to pay for everything we do. But that's the other option we should be able to have. If mobile phone goes, we should be able to have access to satellite systems so we can run off the satellite system. At least we can still be able to communicate within our society.

[Bill Cruz]

Well said, Todd. Well said. Thanks for your call.

[Todd]

Thanks, mate. Okay, catch you later.

[Bill Cruz]

Welcome to the show, Tony.

[Tony]

Oh, evening, Bill. Hey, I want to talk about the royal commission into anti Semitism. Yes, I better be careful. What I said.

[Bill Cruz]

Yes, you better be careful. We'll be watching with the dump button.

[Tony]

Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk about what Julian Siegel had to say about the reporting on the, on the Gaza, on the Gaza wall.

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

I always worried, Tony, that this royal commission, in the end it's going to become a royal commission into Gaza. I couldn't see any way of not going in anywhere like that.

[Graham]

No.

[Tony]

What I find, what I find staggering. Right. She's the anti, she's the official anti Semitism envoy.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Tony]

She's pretty much taken a position on the, on the whole Gaza issue. She pretty much said that the ABC and sbs, when they reported on, on this conflict, she said it paints Israel in a negative, negative light. And she has a problem with that.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And she also, and she also, she also said, I gotta be careful. I gotta, I gotta read through this just, just to make sure. She was pretty much dismissing reports about some. That children in Gaza that are starving.

[Bill Cruz]

Oh, yeah, there was, there was a report that the ABC put out that. That was wrong.

[Pam]

That was wrong.

[Bill Cruz]

There was, that was a report that the ABC put out.

[Tony]

Yeah, well, there was one story. Well, that's one story, though, when throughout the whole conflict, children have been starving.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Yes.

[Bill Cruz]

That's why I cannot see how the Royal Commission cannot but become a Royal Commission into Gaza. I cannot see that. And I thought it was silly of the government to allow it to happen anyway.

[Tony]

Well, she pretty much wants the, the ABC and the SBS to be heavily, heavily monitored. Yeah, heavily monitored just to. Yeah, just the whitewash. Well, I don't know if that's the right. Yeah, whitewash. The.

[Bill Cruz]

Well, you've got to be careful. You got to be careful. It's. It's, it's a, a hot, hot topic where people have very, very strong opinions on both sides, you know, and.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, but.

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, but Bill.

[Tony]

Yeah, Bill, on one side, on one side, people, people are. On one side, people are dying disproportionate in disproportionate numbers. Oh, it's not, not just war. It's not just war. It's government. It's pretty much Israeli government policy throughout, throughout the whole 80 years of this Israel.

[Bill Cruz]

The whole thing is a mess, Tony. The whole thing is a mess. You know, both sides have legitimate grievances. Both sides, you know, the Jewish people after the Holocaust and the Palestinian people who have been moved on. Both sides have legitimate, legitimate grievances. And that's when it gets really hard, Bill.

[Tony]

But where I want to get to is. Where I want to get to is this anti Semitism envoy. She wants to combat anti Semitism yet by being, for having, by taking such a partisan stand on the whole Gaza genocide and pretty much dismissing the feelings of Palestinians and reports of Palestinians dying, pretty much wanting the ABC and SBS to whitewash the whole thing. I think she's actually contributing to anti Semitism.

[Bill Cruz]

Well, she. Yeah, that's a valid point. That's a valid point because I think Australian people have. Can, can look at the nuances in all of these things, you know, and the political thing might be being played out there and the power games might be being played out there, but ordinary Australian people watching feel it in their gut and, and are going to respond in, in different ways at different moments.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, yeah, they're gonna. You all.

[Tony]

It appeals to people's humanity. We don't like seeing children dying. We don't like seeing.

[Bill Cruz]

Well, let's, let's look at that in lots of ways, we, we don't like seeing a bunch of terrorists breaking in and raping and killing people like they did into Israel. That, that puts, that puts us on one side. Then we see a bomb going off and we see those, those little kids dying and that puts us in another side. And then most people just throw up their hands and say, oh my God, I can't work this out.

[Caller/Listener]

Bill?

[Tony]

Yeah, I won't, I won't dwell with the conflict itself. I want to dwell with the, I just want to talk about the coverage of the conflict here where it's pretty, it pretty much. Once, it's pretty much one sided. Apart from ABC and sbs, who Siegel complains about, they've reported the conflict as objectively as they could. Compared to all the commercial media outlets, they pretty much just trot out the Israeli line pretty much.

[Bill Cruz]

Well, I, I think, I think there's this. Look, it's just such a difficult issue, Tony. It is such. I was here and I watched the shooting that was going on in December. I, I watched it from here and it was awful. It was awful. And, and the truth is ordinary Jewish kids who should be able to go to school in Australia feeling free, they shouldn't have security guards with guns at the front. And ordinary Muslim kids should be able to go to school in freedom and not have to sleep in the mosque with their mum and dad because they're afraid to go home because they might get targeted. And both sides and ordinary Jewish people should not be afraid to go out of their houses because they'd be targeted. So you've got Muslim people afraid to stay in their houses and Jewish people afraid to be outside of them. And that is just not what we want people in Australia to be able to feel.

[Tony]

Bill, I wish it didn't have to be this way where the whole attack gets confided with the conflict. But unfortunately, but unfortunately, the Israeli government has pretty much taken advantage of the whole situation.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

And you've got to be careful because you got to be careful because not does. When you got two Jewish people together, you've got three opinions, right? So that not all Jewish people go along with the Israeli government and not all Muslim people go along with Hamas or anything like that. So that, you know, ordinary people, it, it won't really be until Jewish people and Israel. I remember there was a battle going on between a Christian community and a Muslim community in Indonesia. And it wasn't until the head of the Christian community stood in front of his Christian people and said, if you want to go and kill Muslims, you got to kill me first. And the Muslim leader stood in front

[Co-host/Assistant]

of his Muslim people and said, if

[Bill Cruz]

you want to go and kill Muslim Christians, you got to kill me first. It won't be until people start standing up like that that this will end.

[Caller/Listener]

Bill. Yes, yes.

[Siv]

Bill.

[Tony]

There are, there are, there actually are Jewish groups.

[Siv]

Yes.

[Tony]

Then what is wrong are doing? You know the Jewish Council.

[Bill Cruz]

Yep, yep.

[Tony]

The Jewish Council spokesperson was at the Royal Commission.

[Bill Cruz]

Yep, yep. So both sides, both sides are being heard, Tony. Both sides are being heard.

[Tony]

And this is the problem though. The Jewish Council and the. And the spokesman, she gets criticized by all the other mainstream Jewish groups.

[Bill Cruz]

Of course. Of course. That's right. Well, stand up. Stand up for yourself. God bless you. Thanks for your call, mate.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Thank you.

[Bill Cruz]

For many people, finding a job's challenging enough. But for women from migrant and refugee backgrounds, the barriers can be even greater. Many have lived in Australia for years, yet continue to struggle to find employment because they don't have local work experience. Without that first opportunity, it can be difficult to build confidence, develop professional networks and secure long term work. Lead Connect is helping to change that through its social enterprise and the Ishine Program which provides transitional employment pathways. The program gives women the opportunity to gain valuable Australian work experience, develop practical skills, build confidence and take meaningful steps towards sustainable employment. Joining us tonight is Sharmali Mukherjee from Lead Connect to tell us more about the Ishine program, the women it supports and why creating pathways into employment can have a lasting impact on individuals, families and the wider community. Sharmalee, welcome. Welcome.

[Tanya Lee]

Thank you.

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

It's amazing to join you.

[Bill Cruz]

Thank you. Now can you start by telling us about Lead Connect and the vision behind it?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Certainly at LeadConnect, Bill, we believe that talent is everywhere. But opportunity isn't. The biggest barrier isn't capability, it's opportunity. Lead Connect is a certified social enterprise that supports women experiencing barriers to employment. And the way we support women is to help them build confidence, capability and create, most importantly, create a practical experience and pathways they need to enter or re enter the workforce.

[Bill Cruz]

So what's the Ishine program?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Ishine is a program where we work with women facing disadvantage. Many of these women are from migrant and refugee backgrounds who often experience additional barriers. And what I'd like to call it will is the Ishine program is the missing middle, the space between settlement services and sustainable employment. Or it could be even stepping away from work to care for family and successfully returning to workforce. You asked the question about what's the vision for Lead Connect. I think our vision is very Simple. It's to connect potential with opportunity. We help women take their first step into or back into the workforce by building confidence, providing current local work experience and creating pathways to long term employment.

[Bill Cruz]

I've been there and I've seen your

[Co-host/Assistant]

work and I marvel at it.

[Bill Cruz]

And a lot of the women are

[Co-host/Assistant]

from countries where women are kind of

[Bill Cruz]

put down and often they come here and they're still under the thumb of

[Co-host/Assistant]

their husbands, aren't they?

[Bill Cruz]

So in a sense you're giving them encouragement and helping them to move into a better lifestyle, aren't you?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Absolutely, Bill. And I think what we've seen is that over the years we kept meeting highly capable women from these different backgrounds with qualifications, with skills and enormous potential,

[Tanya Lee]

but they were stuck because they either

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

lacked local work experience or experience that's current. Many of these women are engineers, accountants, they have studied it, but have been in Australia for years and despite that couldn't get an interview because every employer, every day they knocked on asked for an Australian work experience.

[Bill Cruz]

So what does a typical journey through your program look like?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

So it starts with understanding the woman, the person, not just her resume. We explore with her her strengths, aspirations and barriers. She is then matched with a mentor from preferably a similar background who understands her lived experience, experience the cultural expectations that she has to, you know, follow and kind of live. Once we do that, she then moves through employability and workplace skills training. And what's the most important thing, important part of the program is that throughout their time in Ishine they are supervised and support, supported by culturally inclusive mentoring. And once they finish their workplace skills training, they then enter into supervised work placements which provides them real work experience. And that experience is often. What's the bridge, bridge between unemployment and long term sustainable employment.

[Bill Cruz]

The one that really got me was

[Co-host/Assistant]

the lady who I met who's an

[Bill Cruz]

architect, who, she has children and she

[Co-host/Assistant]

comes from a country that, you know,

[Bill Cruz]

even though she's an architect, women are

[Co-host/Assistant]

kind of not encouraged a lot to do these sorts of things.

[Bill Cruz]

And she was learning because she had children and they, they had special needs and all of those sorts of things. And she had a husband who's quite

[Co-host/Assistant]

demanding and all of that sort of stuff.

[Bill Cruz]

She'd have to try and get a job as a seamstress, which to me was really sad.

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Yes, that's true. But I think she has come a long way. She's shown courage while she's working through her confidence, building her confidence back. She's just utilizing, we provided that opportunity for her to utilize her strengths in sewing and other things to build up to that stage where she can enter the mainstream work and, you know, workforce. But Bill, there's so many other stories, you know, like the other day, I think you've also met one of our participants called Shivani. And she, from a qualifications perspective, is an engineer back from the country she's from. She arrived in Australia almost 13 years ago now and was not able to establish a career because of many reasons. One being that from the day she arrived here, there were a lot of, you know, lack of confidence, lack of language and communication skills, but importantly, her caring responsibilities for her son who was diagnosed with autism. And there was no immediate family to support her. She was socially isolated, had no professional network as such. However, when she joined the Eyeshine program, what we saw was very quickly her commitment, her willingness to learn and utilize the skills she had from a qualification. And finally, when she got into the final stage of Eyeshine, which is the work place, the paid placement, which is what makes the difference between us and, you know, other programs, she walked in my office one day and when she received her first pay and said, thank you. This is my first pay slip. Can you imagine, Will? Because for many of us, we take that for granted. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

The thing I like about. The thing I like about those women is how committed they are to bettering everything.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Like, really strong, isn't it?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Absolutely. They are committed. They've got the skills, they bring in, their not only qualifications, but their lived

[Pam]

experience,

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

and most importantly, professionalism and loyalty. When it comes to a workplace, it's more than just skills. It. It changes everything in a workplace.

[Bill Cruz]

So what have employees told you about

[Co-host/Assistant]

the women who come through the program?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Couple of things that we consistently hear from employers is they kind of say, oh, my God, the women, when they come, they are so committed and so eager to contribute beyond their, you know, described position, position description that they have. They are eager to contribute above and beyond. They not only bring skills, they are very professional, but what stands out is their loyalty and the life experience that they bring to the workplace. Another thing that I'd like to mention is because through this program, we not only support women, but simultaneously we also helping employers build confidence in employing culturally diverse women. So I think hand in hand, that really strengthens the experience both ways.

[Bill Cruz]

So if there's an employer listening tonight who'd like to support you, what would you say to them? How can they get involved?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Bill, this program is only three years old, so we are really encouraging more and more employers to get involved. We are Looking for employers willing to provide flexible work experience opportunities even if they can provide transitional employment pathways in an inclusive workplace. And for any employer who's listening to us, I would encourage them to rethink one question instead of asking, do you have local experience? Maybe they could shift and help create it because one opportunity can change a life. So could we be the organization that gives someone, give someone their local work experience? I think that's really very important message that I'd like to convey to any employer listening to us today.

[Bill Cruz]

So if an employer is listening, how do they get onto you?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Just by contacting Lead Connect.

[Bill Cruz]

How do they do that? What's your website?

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Lead Le A D Connect1Word.org Au Sharmali, God bless you.

[Bill Cruz]

I'm just so impressed. I was so impressed with the program, so impressed with the women and so impressed with how they grow through all

[Co-host/Assistant]

of that, you know, and my God,

[Bill Cruz]

you know, you see them working so

[Co-host/Assistant]

hard and they're a godsend to Australia.

[Bill Cruz]

God bless you and thanks so much

[Co-host/Assistant]

for talking to us tonight.

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Thank you so much for this opportunity to speak with you.

[Bill Cruz]

And I gotta say, you are too. God bless you. Sharmalee. Thank you.

[Sharmali Mukherjee]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Bill Cruz]

Bill Cruz on Sunday night.

[Co-host/Assistant]

That's the beauty of this multicultural Australia. That's the beauty of it. I see it every day. Every day.

[Bill Cruz]

And when I hear these people talking

[Co-host/Assistant]

about monoculture, I just think they are just so sad. I just feel sorry for them because they're missing something wonderful.

[Bill Cruz]

If you agree or disagree, give me a ring. On 131873, I got a message here from Ben. Evening Bill.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Enjoy the show. Just wanted to ask if you could please pray for my wife. She's 31 and currently in ICU after a major surgery. Fifth abdominal surgery in 12 months. And it's going to be a long road ahead. We have two young children aged six and eight. Our eight year old has autism and being a young dad at 31, I am trying my best to keep things afloat and as normal as as I can for my beautiful kids.

[Bill Cruz]

Hold your loved ones tight and never

[Co-host/Assistant]

miss a chance to tell them you love them. Thank you Bill and God bless you and your listeners. Well, Ben, you didn't tell me your wife's name. So. Dearest God, we pray for Ben, his lovely daughters and we pray for his lovely wife. May they all, May they all see that you are with them. And may the love and the warmth of your compassion shine on them as the sun shines on us in those beautiful days. And may your will be Done. But may Ben and his daughters and his wife feel the warmth of your love and closeness. And we ask this in the name of Jesus. Amen.

[Bill Cruz]

Right. Is that river Bu there?

[Caller/Listener]

Right. Do you want me to. Hey, is that ribbon? Bill?

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, right.

[Caller/Listener]

Oh good, it's right, it's fine.

[Bill Cruz]

Yeah, it's Reverend Bill. Right.

[Caller/Listener]

All right, good. Reverend Bill? Yeah, I was listening last Sunday night when you're talking about Noadak Week and yes, you were encouraging anybody with early Aboriginal history to call you. I didn't have the opportunity to do so. I'm a first time caller but I thought I'd refer you to the book. I don't know if you've ever read it, but Australia's Yesterdays. It was published by Reader's Digest, Surry hill, Sydney in 1974. Bill? Yeah, it was listed in the National Library of Australia. So what they said in here, they said in the book I'm reading here that not until the 1860s were attempts made by any of the self governing colonies to. To set aside reserves for Aborigines and to give them some protection. The Aboriginal welfare was of little concern at that time to politicians. There was no votes in it. Missions, rather than the governments tried to provide Aborigines with food, clothing, medical care, education and also, not surprisingly, the Aboriginal infant mortality rate was 10 times that of the whites and respiratory infections, gastrointestinal disease and leprosy were prevalent. So I'm concerned about is that the fact that reading here from this book is established by the reputable registrars. It's a good, honest book. The foster care of Aboriginal children by the different churches and missions seems to be overlooked and forgotten that kept them alive and healthy for future generations to come. So I'm innocent in the fact that the statistics that they said here as well, Reverend Bill. That there was about 140,000 adversities lived in or near the major cities but there was 50,000 in the missions, 50,000 emissions and settlements so mainly in northern Central Australia and 15,000 on pastoral properties. So I wanted to bring this bit of history. It's available in some of the second half.

[Bill Cruz]

Look, Ray, I agree with you. I agree with you, Ray. People, everybody listening should go and read the history because in reading the history you get an idea of what was happening. I agree with you, Ray, thank you very much for your call. God bless you, mate.

[Caller/Listener]

And Bill, I want to. God bless you, Bill, for your wedding, for your ongoing pastoral work. We need more people like you to keep the faith in this country and to bring back a conscience to send us violence and stabbing and stealing.

[Bill Cruz]

God bless you, mate. Thank you. News is coming up next. And then I really, really want to hear from you, especially if you haven't rung before.

[Pam]

Imagine all the people living life in peace.

[Caller/Listener]

You.

[Bill Cruz]

Welcome back to Sunday night cruise with your radio Reverend Bill Cruz.

Well, as you all know, it's the

[Co-host/Assistant]

bewitching hour and that's the hour every

[Bill Cruz]

line into this building from anywhere in Australia, every line comes to this microphone. And I'm here to talk to you. And if you're lonely and isolated and

[Co-host/Assistant]

feeling a bit sad, well, there's a

[Bill Cruz]

whole lot of people thinking of you.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Right? And you can come and be part of our congregation of kindness. God, the world needs a bit of kindness today, doesn't it? Just the congregation of kindness.

[Bill Cruz]

You can find more about our congregation if you go to RevBillCruise.com coming up soon. Author and creative writing PhD PJ Laverty joins me to discuss his new novel Ripper 2 Young Pilgrim. We'll explore why he believes football can inspire more men and boys to discover the joy of reading and how his own migrant story helped shape the book. Now we all rely on our phones and Internet every single day. In fact, most of us probably don't even think about it until suddenly it all stops. This week that's exactly what's happened. A major telco outage disrupted services across Australia. Regional train lines were affected. EFTPOS machines stopped working. Businesses were unable to process payments. Thousands of people were left without reliable mobile or Internet access. But the most worrying part over 600 calls to triple zero failed to connect during the outage. Just think about that for a moment. Six hundred Australians dialled the number we trust in an emergency and didn't get through as expected. Now thankfully, authorities have said alternative arrangements meant emergency services were still able to respond in many cases. But surely that's beside the point. 000 is the number one number Australians expect to work every single time. No exceptions. So here's the question. Have mobile and Internet networks become so essential that they should now be treated like electricity, water and gas? Think about your own day. You pay for your coffee with your phone. You transfer money online. You work from home. Businesses rely on cloud services. Families stay connected through mobile networks. Even Many security systems and medical devices now depend on reliable Internet connections. If the power goes out, there are investigations. If the water supply is interrupted, there are strict rules and accountability. Should telecommunications companies be held to the same standard? For years, telecommunications companies have consistently ranked among Australia's least trusted industries. Australians complain about black spots, dropped calls, poor customer service and rising prices. But when an outage disrupts transport, banking and emergency calls, this becomes much more than an inconvenience. It's about public safety. Should the federal government classify telecommunications as essential public infrastructure and impose much tougher financial penalties when widespread outages occur? Or would that simply increase costs for consumers without preventing these failures? Tonight, we want to hear from you. How did the outage affect your day? Were you unable to work? Did your business lose money? Were you left stranded? And after hearing that around 600 calls to Triple Zero failed to connect, do you think enough is being done to make sure Australia's telcos are as reliable as the services we've come to depend on? Come on, give us a call on 131873. We'd love to hear your thoughts. It's about accountability. Should we be treating your home Internet and mobile connection as an essential utility? Give us a call on 131873. We'd love to hear your thoughts.

Bill Cruz on Sunday night.

We've all heard the phrase it's just common sense. But is it really? Or is it something that we simply grow up knowing without anyone ever writing it down? Australia has plenty of laws. We know the speed limits, we know we have to wear seat belts. And we know what day we have to put the bins out. But then there are the rules that don't exist on paper. The unwritten rules, the ones that somehow every Aussie is just expected to know. Take the classic backyard barbecue. If the invitation says bring a plate, do you automatically know? It means bring a plate of food to share, not an empty dinner plate. For anyone new to Australia, that little phrase has probably caused plenty of confusion over the years. And what about turning up empty handed? Is that ever acceptable? Should you always bring a salad, dessert, drinks or something to contribute? Even if the host says don't worry about it, is there an unspoken expectation that you ignore those words and bring something anyway? And then there's pub etiquette. You've been waiting patiently to order a drink. Someone walks straight into the front and catches the bartender's eye. Do you speak up? Do you let it slide? Is queue jumping one of the great Australian sins? Or consider thanking the bus driver? In many parts of Australia, it's almost automatic. But is it becoming less common? Should we still be doing it? What about waving when someone lets you merge in traffic? Returning your shopping trolley, holding the lift for someone who's just a few steps behind, standing on the left or the right of an escalator, not loudly talking during a movie. There are dozens of these little social rules that make life smoother, but nobody ever sat us down and taught them. What about what happens when someone breaks one? Do you quietly judge them? Do you call them out? Or do you simply shrug your shoulders and move on? Maybe these unwritten rules are part of what gives Australia its character. They're not enforced by police or courts. They're enforced by a raised eyebrow, a sideways glance, or the feeling you got somehow committed a social foul. So tonight I want to hear from you. What do you think are the absolute unwritten rules of being Australian? Which ones should never be broken? Which are some of those odd social codes starting to disappear? Come on, call us. Call me now on 131873. I'd love to hear the little rules

[Co-host/Assistant]

that everyone should know, even if nobody's ever actually written them down. I love this song.

[Bill Cruz]

My daughter used to sing it all the time. Tina Arena. Heaven help my heart.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Ah, gee, that brings me.

[Bill Cruz]

Brings back memories, that does. Like some of the happiest times of

[Co-host/Assistant]

my life were driving my two daughters to school and they'd be belching in

[Bill Cruz]

the mornings and they'd be belting all this music out, singing all together and they'd drag some of their girlfriends as well.

[Co-host/Assistant]

So I'd be the. The poor bugger driving them all to

[Bill Cruz]

school and they'd all be shayaking in

[Co-host/Assistant]

the back and singing all these songs and the.

[Bill Cruz]

Tina arena and.

[Co-host/Assistant]

And what?

[Bill Cruz]

The Lion King. All of those sorts of songs. They'd be belching them all out in the car and I'd be looking all around. Bit different to listening to Kyle and Jackie today, isn't it? Bit different to that sort of thing. But they were all like. It's one of those times I can just remember as just pure joy. Pure joy. And I'm wondering, have you got experiences like that, something you'd like to share with us? Maybe a family time or a family moment or something like that, where you're just happy driving the kids to school, picking them up. They might say something that kind of like, I'm going to talk about this a bit later, but yesterday and today

[Co-host/Assistant]

we were celebrating the Dalai Lama's 91st birthday. And there was this. In front of all these dancing Tibetans, there was this dear little girl who had been let loose, you know, and

[Bill Cruz]

so she starts smiling to Evan. I wave to her and she waves back and all of those sorts of things. What's absolutely warmed your heart Give me a ring on 131873 and let me know. I want to tell you a story.

[Co-host/Assistant]

When I first started at ashfield in the 80s, late 80s, actually, it's 40 years this year, in October, I'll have been in Asheville or no, from January. I was in January. I started in 1986, but soon after we were taking in homeless kids and the kids were brought by the police and everybody else, you know, we used to have all these kids and I used to sleep them in the church and it was a big thing, big thing looking after them. Many of them died. Homeless kids often die. We don't think about that, but they do. And a lady rang me and she said, there's a little kid coming around. I put out food for the cats at night and this little kid comes around and steals their food. He looks about 12.

[Graham]

So

[Co-host/Assistant]

I said, right, well, let's try and catch him, you know, this little boy. And gradually, over time, over a long time, we managed to catch him 12, 13 years old. And he stayed with. We gave him, with youth off the streets, Father Chris Riley. Because Father Chris and I used to kind of at time, swap kids because kids would stay long enough with me to get pissed off with me. So I'd send them over to Father Chris and Father Chris, they get pissed off with him, send him over to me. And we. We had this thing and anyway, we looked after this boy Sean for a few years and. But Sean got caught onto the drugs, you know, it was difficult, really difficult, really, really difficult. And he'd go to his father sometimes and stay and stay with us. And it was really difficult, really difficult. And it was difficult keeping him away from the drug pushers, you know, really difficult. And one day he died. He died on the steps of one of the police stations because he kind of went there to try to get some help. And the overdose, there was no police there, so he was found dead when the police got back. He was about 14, 15 at that time. And Father Chris and I did his funeral together. And he'd been going to Father Chris's school and our school and all of that. And we found on his computer his life story, and I'm going to read it to you. When I was two years of age, my mum and dad went to the hotel. They hired a babysitter to look after me. The babysitter went to get some beer and left the front door open. He shouted my name and I didn't come to him. I was running around the road. The police picked me up and took me to foster placement. Later there was a phone call from the police to say I was in foster placement. Dad has told me about this. A couple of days later a lady came to the family to take me to another foster family. I stayed there for three years and then went to another foster family. They enrolled me in a school called Marylands Primary. I had lots of friends there. Lots of friends. Their names were Rodney and Peter.

[Bill Cruz]

About a year after I moved into

[Co-host/Assistant]

this family a lady named XXX knocked on the door and asked for me.

[Bill Cruz]

I ran to the door thinking that

[Co-host/Assistant]

it was my mum. That was the first time I met her. She told me that she knows where my dad is there. We made an appointment to meet my dad. At first I felt good and happy. The day had come to see my dad. We went to xxx's workplace. I think I saw a man walking out the door. I walked up to him and asked him, are you my father? He said yes. I gave him a big hug. Oh yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

He gave me a soccer ball.

[Co-host/Assistant]

We played soccer that day. Then I had to go back to the foster family. Then me and my dad saw each other occasionally. I hadn't seen XXX for about a month. Then she came knocking at the door again. And she said, come with me. I want to show you someone.

[Bill Cruz]

I asked, who am I going to see?

[Co-host/Assistant]

She said, your mum. My mum lived on top of a hotel. She was a very heavy drinker. I'd only went to see my mum three or four times. Then one day we went on an outing to Botanical Gardens for a picnic. Me and my mum walked around the park looking at all the boats. Then we went to the opera house. Then we had a picnic. XXX was there too. We stayed there until 4 o'. Clock. Then we had to go back. We dropped mum back first. I said goodbye to her. She gave me a kiss and a hug goodbye. I can't really remember what it felt like. But it was good I suppose because it was my mum. Then Hillary dropped me back at the foster family home. I started seeing my dad every weekend for about six months. At first I enjoyed these times. But then my dad taught me to use a knife and fork. I didn't know how to use them because my foster family didn't even teach me. I started living with him and every birthday had a birthday party. Except when I was 13 and 14 years of age because my dad didn't have much money. When I was 12 or 13 my mum came to my dad's for Christmas. She stayed there for about a Week. Then one day I came home from school. My dad told me that Mum had left. I asked dad where she was. Dad did not know. I ran around the neighborhood looking for her and I could not find her. So I gave up crying my heart out. So I went home waiting for a phone call from her to tell me she was where she was or to say sorry for leaving so suddenly.

[Bill Cruz]

So after this, I kept having arguments

[Co-host/Assistant]

with my dad and kept running away from him. He used to hit me a bit too. When I ran away, I went to my new do to complain about him. I didn't have a do for a long time.

[Bill Cruz]

One day.

[Co-host/Assistant]

One day my dad telephoned me to tell me to come home to get some news off of me. He wanted to tell me something about the family.

[Bill Cruz]

When I arrived at Dad's, I asked

[Co-host/Assistant]

him what he wanted to tell me. He said, I've got some bad news.

[Bill Cruz]

What's the bad news?

[Co-host/Assistant]

I asked.

[Bill Cruz]

He said, if I tell you, will you get upset?

[Co-host/Assistant]

I said no. So he told me that my mum had died. I felt angry, sad, upset. I felt like I could do anything to myself.

[Bill Cruz]

I remember who it was.

[Co-host/Assistant]

And she told me it was not worth killing yourself because everyone dies when it's their time. I started crying then. The bad thing was I could not go to her funeral because it was over already when I got told. And that's it. I'm still having memories of her and I miss her so much. I wish I could speak to her one more time. We went to her resting place on Mother's Day, but could not find it. That was on the 10th of May, written by this boy, 15 years of age. Coolest dude out of all the world. Please understand about the story. Thank you for being a friend. Da da da. We see these kids every day. Every day. Homeless kids like that. But often just finding something on a computer just brings it home. And I know there's many people out there who have these sorts of issues. And that's what we work with every day. Every day. The disadvantaged people we work with, the homeless people. Many of the homeless people, they die 20 years before their time. I'm doing funerals for homeless people who die in their 60s, when they should be dying in their 80s. And life's like, that gets tough, it gets tough. And that's why I try and share stories with you, because maybe somewhere in that you'll think, oh, maybe I can help. Because I'd love you to help. Thanks.

[Bill Cruz]

For many Australians, soccer, or its official name football is much more than just A game. It's about community, identity, belonging and the stories that unfold far beyond the final whistle. But what if a love of sport could also help tackle another challenge? Getting more men to read. Our next guest believes football fiction could be the perfect gateway for men and boys who rarely pick up a book. He's an author, a PhD graduate in creative writing, and he's just released the second novel in his Ripper series, Ripper 2. Young Pilgrim. Drawing on his own journey from Scotland to Australia, his books combine humour, football and heartfelt storytelling while exploring themes of migration, family and finding where you belong. So joining us now is Paul Laverty. Paul, welcome to the show, mate.

[Paul Laverty]

It's great to talk to you. Bill, thanks so much for having me.

[Bill Cruz]

And congratulations on Ripertoo. Young Pilgrim. What's it all about?

[Paul Laverty]

Yeah, so you're right, this is the second book in the series and it's about a young Australian soccer player or football player. And this is in the days before Mark Bosnich and Harry Cool and those sort of players really hit it big. It's the late 80s, early 90s, and he goes to England from Australia to play football. And the trouble is he doesn't really want to be there at all. He wants to be living in Western Australia, surfing every day. Trouble is, he's not that great at surfing, but he is very good at football. So he goes there a little bit against his will and yeah, tries to, tries to forge a path that so many of our young athletes have went over there and tried to do over the years.

[Bill Cruz]

So, mate, why is it so important to you to get young men and boys to read?

[Paul Laverty]

Well, the statistics aren't very good and there seems to be a little bit of a disconnect when males kind of hit their teenage years or towards when they finish school and we just lose them as readers. And I know the same thing happened to me.

[Bill Cruz]

Why,

[Paul Laverty]

I would say it's a few things. There's some great content out there for teenagers, comics, manga, there's some fantastic YA literature out there. And then there just seems to be this massive drop off and I'm not really sure. I think there's a lot of other competing interests for young men, sports being one of them, video games being another. I'm not really sure, but we see this massive drop off with, with young men and I know I was one of them.

[Bill Cruz]

Why do you reckon writing about football will get them reading?

[Paul Laverty]

Well, I see this as a gateway. I like to think my books are very, very good. But I'll be Honest with you, there's greater books out there than mine, a lot more of them.

[Graham]

And.

[Paul Laverty]

And I think football, sport in particular can be a gateway. When I was, like, in my late teens, I was lost as a reader. And then I picked up a book you may have heard of, Nick Homby's Fever Pitch, which is set in England, and it's about his love of Arsenal Football Club. And I absolutely loved that. And through that, I started reading again. I got into books like the Hobbit, the Confederacy of Dunces, Trains spotting, books like that. And I just went on this whole new wonderful path. And now here I am. This is my ninth book and finished a Ph.D. and for me, it really did change my life and I'm trying to make this a gateway for other young men to hopefully do the same.

[Bill Cruz]

Now, your own story includes migrating from Scotland to Australia as a child so much. How much of your own experiences have found their way into Joey Ripper's journey?

[Paul Laverty]

Probably quite a few. I'm a bit of a frustrated footballer myself. I would have loved to have went over there and followed this path and done what he did, but unfortunately didn't have the talent. So I'm sort of. Sort of, you know, reliving my dreams or living out his dream. Living out my dreams, rather through him, really. So, yeah, I think there's a. There's a fair bit in there. And it's like I said before, this. This is a path that so many of young athletes have taken to go over there. And that's what I really wanted to depict. But I think there's. Yeah, there's a fair bit of my story in there, as well.

[Bill Cruz]

As a migrant, how do you mix in. How do you mix in football and Scotland?

[Paul Laverty]

How do I mix? Oh, well, Scotland, as you. As you probably know, it's a bit of a religion over there. Soccer. We're not very good at it, though. That's the problem, as the World cup showed. But yes, I think coming here, soccer in particular, as a new migrant, it was so, so vital to our integration in this country as it is for so many other cultures coming to this country. Soccer was so important and still is, and I think we saw that recently with the Socceroos as well.

[Bill Cruz]

So how do you write. So how do you write for boys as disparate from disparate countries like Australia and Scotland?

[Paul Laverty]

It's pretty hard, isn't it? I should say that I don't see this just as being a YA book. I also want it to attract older readers as well, who May. Who may have, you know, fallen off the. Fallen off the book trail and try and get them off the iPads, off their phones, off Netflix and back reading as well. So I've had a go. But yeah, like I say, there's other books for there and hopefully if they can pick up mine, they can get back into reading and then, you know, re enter this.

[Caller/Listener]

This.

[Paul Laverty]

This beautiful world of literature that's out there.

[Bill Cruz]

So although football's the book, the backdrop, your books explore themes like identity, belonging and community. Why were these ideas just as important as the action on the pitch?

[Paul Laverty]

Yeah, see, the thing is there isn't that much football in there. On the pitch, there's probably like 15, 20 pages. But what's always attracted me is the stories that go on off the pitch, you know, in the sheds, in the stands, in the. In the boardrooms as well. I think that's. That's where the real stories are and that's what's really attracted. So football, it's just a little bit of a, you know, a backdrop to sort of some hopefully wider themes and wider issues that. That's within the book.

[Bill Cruz]

Now you have a PhD in creative writing. People associate that with really literary novels. Did anyone raise an eyebrow when you decided to write funny football fiction?

[Paul Laverty]

I think so. This was, yeah, during. I was doing my PhD during COVID Pretty hard time for everyone, as you'd know. And this was my hobby. It was my golf. This is what I would just sit down and have some fun with. And, you know, here I am. I think this is the fourth football book I've got out now, and it's just been great fun. And hopefully the readers that pick it up, you know, they could. They can feel that as well.

[Bill Cruz]

So the mixing creative writing and football.

[Caller/Listener]

Right.

[Bill Cruz]

How do they mix?

[Paul Laverty]

How do they mix? That's a really good question. I believe, like, I'm really tapping into some. I think why the stories of fish out of water, almost reverse migration story about an Australian man trying to make it not over here like people migrants have for hundreds of years, but trying to make it back over there. So it did. I did rest on a little bit what I got at my PhD for that. But I don't know. I believe good stories can be anywhere, absolutely anywhere, and I don't think there's enough great. I think there's so many great sporting stories that haven't been told.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Paul Laverty]

And I think I just wanted to, you know, delve into a bit of

[Bill Cruz]

that because sporting stories in a way can have a beginning, a middle and an end.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Can they?

[Paul Laverty]

Oh, exactly. Look at some of. Some of our greatest athletes, the likes of, you know, Muhammad Ali. What an absolute fantastic story that's been. And, you know, there'll be hundreds of more like, like them. So, yeah, I think there's so much there, you know, I really love my sport and I think, yeah, it's such a great metaphor for life, I believe.

[Bill Cruz]

Where does Nick Hornby's fever pitch, that book? Where does that fit in in your life?

[Paul Laverty]

Well, I was pretty lost as a teenager, didn't really know what I wanted to do and then I walked into an op shop one day, picked it up, probably cost $0.50 back then, and suddenly that was me. I just absolutely loved it. So football was really all I knew back then and, you know, that's why I picked up the book. But since, like I said, I've got involved in so many other fields and, you know, I honestly, a day does not go by now where I don't. And I've got two young kids as well that I don't find at least an hour to read. And all the, all the data is there as well in terms of, you know, reducing your stress level, improving your mental health. Just getting away from the screens, I think is so vital and not just for younger men as well, and not just for. For men in general, women as well. So vital. And yeah, I would love it if people in general just started rediscovering books again.

[Bill Cruz]

Like football in England. Go together, don't. I was on a train in the north of England once. Going up.

[Graham]

Yes.

[Caller/Listener]

What?

[Bill Cruz]

They were all going to the football match and they were all. Off we go, off we go. Coming back, they were all a bit weather worn, shall we say?

[Graham]

Yeah.

[Bill Cruz]

And I could see the love of football there. Do you find that here in Australia?

[Paul Laverty]

I do, yeah. And I think we saw a little bit about that with the Socceroos, I think did fantastically well and it was such a great, I think, representation of what this country's been over the last decade. You know, people from all nations coming together under the one banner, under the one flag, under the one badge. And it was such a fantastic achievement for Australia.

[Pam]

We.

[Paul Laverty]

When you think we're a relatively small nation, when you look at some of the nations we're up against, I mean, Egypt, who we got knocked out by 125 million and football their number one sport, and Australia, it's not so much, you know, we play a lot of other things here. So I think, yeah, we did fantastically well.

[Bill Cruz]

Now, finally, if There's a dad, teenage son, or even a lifelong sports fan listening tonight who hasn't read a novel in years. What would you say to convince them to give Ripper 2, young pilgrim, a go?

[Paul Laverty]

Well, I would say buy Ripper 2, please, but buy Ripper 1 first. It's a breezy read, it's short, it's punchy, it's dialogue driven, it's not aimed at teenagers specifically. It's named at all ages and also women as well. It's not necessarily just for males at all, because look at you. Look at how big women's football is in this country. It's absolutely massive now as well. So, yeah, please do give it a go. And like I say, hopefully it will be like me and you'll, you know, go into your library and, you know, discover that whole wider world of absolutely fantastic literature that's out there.

[Bill Cruz]

Paul Laverty, Author of Ripper 2 Young Pilgrim. God bless you, mate, and thanks so

[Co-host/Assistant]

much for talking to us tonight.

[Paul Laverty]

Thank you so much, Bill. It's been an absolute pleasure.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Thank you, mate. About 10, 11 years ago, I was in England and I had one day left. I'm conflating a few stories here. I had one day left and it was when all the refugees were trying to get to England on boats from Calais in France.

[Bill Cruz]

And there was a place there called

[Co-host/Assistant]

the Jungle, which was a huge, huge refugee camp.

[Bill Cruz]

And I thought, well, seeing I got

[Co-host/Assistant]

one day left, I'll go there, I'll go and have a look. And refugee camps are terrible places, just terrible places, terrible. And I thought, well, I'll go there. And I've learned when you go to

[Bill Cruz]

places like that, you go and sit and life goes on all around you,

[Co-host/Assistant]

you know, and there's all the dirt and the tin and the. The wood and the people trying to put things together and everybody trying to sort it out and trying to get across to England, all of that sort of stuff. And I see a woman and I say, oh, you seem to know what you're doing.

[Bill Cruz]

And she said, oh, I've come from Leeds. I was an accountant and I came over here to help for one day,

[Co-host/Assistant]

and that was three weeks ago, she said, and I don't even know if

[Bill Cruz]

I've got a job anymore. And my husband's really annoyed with me and I cannot, I have to stay here and help.

[Co-host/Assistant]

And we spent a bit of time wandering around, helping where we could. And there was a young baby, young girl, really sick, and the French authorities wouldn't let her go into hospital. All of that Sort of awful stuff, Awful stuff.

[Bill Cruz]

Many of them were Kurdish people.

[Co-host/Assistant]

That's why I love to Kurdish people so much. And struggling, struggling.

[Bill Cruz]

And I saw a sign and it

[Co-host/Assistant]

said, NA meeting today.

[Bill Cruz]

And I thought, I'll go to that

[Co-host/Assistant]

because we run a lot of NA meetings. That's Narcotics Anonymous, you know, 12 step programs for addicts.

[Bill Cruz]

I thought, I'll go to that and see how they do it.

[Co-host/Assistant]

Over here

[Bill Cruz]

on a piece of carpet,

[Co-host/Assistant]

on the snow with all the mess all around, were maybe 12 different people, 10 or 12 different people, men and

[Bill Cruz]

women, all different cultures, different colors, all the colors of the rainbows.

[Co-host/Assistant]

All refugees trying to get to England, you know, Middle Eastern, you name it. They were all there, all sitting, standing in a circle, telling their stories as they do in the NA tradition. And I couldn't understand a word, couldn't understand a word because they were all talking in their own language. And it was all being translated into French. And I couldn't work it all out.

[Bill Cruz]

And it got to me and I thought, what am I going to say?

[Co-host/Assistant]

And I said, oh, I'm built from Australia.

[Bill Cruz]

And they went, english, English, English.

[Co-host/Assistant]

I said, no, no, I can't get you to England.

[Bill Cruz]

And then it all poured out for me because at that time my marriage

[Co-host/Assistant]

was going down the tubes and I was feeling really terrible.

[Bill Cruz]

And I said, oh, I'm Bill from Australia.

[Co-host/Assistant]

I said, and I feel really bad and my kids have been suffering. Da da da da da da da. And I got really upset.

[Bill Cruz]

And all of those people, all those

[Co-host/Assistant]

drug addicted, mainly Muslim people got up and they hugged me. And in a way, they gave me my life back. They gave me my life back.

[Bill Cruz]

The people who everybody hates because they're

[Co-host/Assistant]

boat people and Muslim and refugees gave me my life back. And I thought, how do I honor that?

[Bill Cruz]

So I went back to England and

[Co-host/Assistant]

I threw out all my clothes, all of them. And I just wear black because I hope that people ask me why I wear black. And I tell them it's because the

[Bill Cruz]

people we regard as the lowest of

[Co-host/Assistant]

the low gave me my life back.

[Bill Cruz]

I used to walk yeah, shit away from those blues I'm not afraid of this A rover crossed over if I ever, ever seen I'd be rich as Rockefeller Gold dust at my feet on sunny side of the street well, as my old grandma used to say, billy, it's time to sling your hook and

[Co-host/Assistant]

get out of here. I really want to thank you for listening tonight.

[Bill Cruz]

Hope you enjoy me again next Sunday. And until then, God bless and good night.