← Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Anthony Mackie Talks Captain America and Latest Season of "Twisted Metal"
00:42:35
Willie catches up with "Captain America" himself, Anthony Mackie for a discussion about growing up as a theater kid in New Orleans and his rise from "8 Mile" through the Marvel Universe, and the latest season of "Twisted Metal".
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- [00:01]
Willie Geist
A real Etsy buyer review for handmade home decor by a real Etsy seller. They are truly beautiful to look at and absolutely original. Discover pieces created and loved by real people. Shop the Etsy app.
- [00:17]
Anthony Mackie
Are you ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Sriracha sounds pretty spicy to me. Um, a bit little. A little spicy, but also tangy and sweet.
- [00:31]
Willie Geist
Maybe it's time to turn up the.
- [00:33]
Anthony Mackie
Heat or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha. Spicy but not too spicy.
- [00:51]
Willie Geist
Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you today with Anthony Mackie. Of course you know him as Captain America. He was initiated into the Marvel Cinematic Universe as Falcon, Sam Wilson's Falcon back in 2014 and this year got his own movie, Captain Brave New World. You'll remember if you're a fan of the Marvel cinematic universe in 2019's Endgame. Chris Evans, captain past the shield to Anthony Mackie's new Captain America. He's had an incredible career. Born and raised in New Orleans, not in a family of performers, although of course in New Orleans performances everywhere. He fell in love with acting from a very young age. Went to a performing arts high school and then auditioned for and was accepted to and studied at the famed Juilliard School in New York City. The first movie of his career right out of the gate, eight Mile. Remember he played Papa Doc, kind of the rival to Eminem in the movie. There's a great story in here about that famous rap battle scene between Eminem and Anthony Mackie's character. Stay tuned for that. It's incredible. He went on to a bunch of supporting roles in Oscar winning movies. Million Dollar Baby, the Hurt Locker. He was in the Adjustment Bureau, underrated Matt Damon movie, great flick there. Before joining the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Most recently he's been nominated for two Emmys. He great guest appearance if you watch the studio on Apple tv. Plus primetime Emmy nomination for that. And he was part of a last year's documentary Shark Beach. He got nominated for an Emmy for that. A daytime Emmy as well. He's been very busy. His very latest is a new season of the hit Peacock series, Twisted Metal. If you've seen it, you know it's based on a famous video game from like 25, 30 years ago called Twisted Metal. He plays John Doe, a delivery driver suffering from amnesia, in a post apocalyptic United States. How is that for a character description? The show is wild, it's insane. And very popular on Peacock. I should point out we got together at a place in New York City called Coexist Game House. It's like you go in this door somewhere. I think it's on 38th Street. And it's just old school video games, new video games. You can play at the old arcade set up or you can have like the wall on the tv, like you're playing at home. It's just this club for gaming. So he and I sat down. In between us is the Street Fighter video game. Remember the old kind? They'd have it like a Pizza Hut where each person sits at each side of it. It's kind of like a table with a video game in the middle. Just to give you a visual. We're kind of in the basement of this video game place in New York City sitting at a game table. A first for me and at first for Anthony. So sit back now, relax and enjoy a Sunday sit down conversation with Anthony Mackie. Anthony, thanks for doing this, man.
- [03:58]
Anthony Mackie
What's up, man? Appreciate it.
- [03:59]
Willie Geist
I was just saying this is definitely the first time I've ever done an interview at a gaming console. I assume it's yours too.
- [04:07]
Anthony Mackie
But I will say I've always. I've always wanted one of these. Yeah, but the problem is once, because invariably they will break. Getting them fixed is the hard part.
- [04:18]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [04:18]
Anthony Mackie
Because how many people, you know, know how to take this apart and put it back together?
- [04:21]
Willie Geist
Yeah, these are 30, 35 years old. Yeah, that technician's not around anymore.
- [04:25]
Anthony Mackie
That dude is in Boca chilling out.
- [04:28]
Willie Geist
We got Street Fighter in front of us. I remember the Pac Man, Ms. Pac man thing from when we were young. That table where four people could sit down.
- [04:35]
Anthony Mackie
That's the one. I mean, I. That one. I have blown many a Saturdays with my kids playing four person Pac Man. And the trash that kids talk, you know, it's perf. Personal, man. Like kids don't understand the boundaries of trash talking.
- [04:49]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [04:49]
Anthony Mackie
You know, and. And it's just, you can't. I always tell my boys, I'm like, you can't talk trash and play Ms. Pac man like that don't go, you know, that don't go hand in hand, you know.
- [05:01]
Willie Geist
No, you're not hardcore.
- [05:02]
Anthony Mackie
You're trash talking. You're not a Ms. Pac man thug. Stop it.
- [05:06]
Willie Geist
Well, we should explain why we're here in this fascinating cool downstairs of a New York building.
- [05:13]
Anthony Mackie
Downstairs. This is, this is, this is Willie's Basement.
- [05:17]
Willie Geist
This is my man.
- [05:17]
Anthony Mackie
He invited me over. Yeah, we chilling out. Yeah, little nostalgia going on. Bring it up.
- [05:22]
Willie Geist
Bring everybody down here on a Saturday night.
- [05:23]
Anthony Mackie
Appreciate you having me on the DJ.
- [05:25]
Willie Geist
Booth, the whole thing.
- [05:25]
Anthony Mackie
You're crazy on the weekends, right?
- [05:28]
Willie Geist
We're here because your latest project, Season two of Twisted Metal is coming out right now, based on the famous video game that came out in 95, I think it was. It was so popular for the next decade or so. So gotta ask you where we find John Doe as we move from season one to season two? Where are we in the story for fans?
- [05:51]
Anthony Mackie
Well, from the. If you remember from the end of season one, John Doe was in an interesting position. He delivered the package that Raven asked for and he was let into New San Francisco. Now the problem was he was let in and quiet wasn't. So he finds himself in New San Francisco and not altogether happy with the situation that is now his reality. So, you know, John Doe is a free spirit. He's a nomad, he's a roamer. So he's trying to figure out, you know, what his next step is to being happy. Because most people, when they go into the cities inside the walls, they don't come out. You know, that's the dreamland, that's the promised land. So we start to see what the real world is inside the wal and John Doe deciding if that's for him or not. And that's where we find him at the beginning of season two.
- [06:43]
Willie Geist
So for people who have not seen the show, it is fun showing our people.
- [06:47]
Anthony Mackie
Everybody saw the show. Yeah, it was a huge hit.
- [06:50]
Willie Geist
The small handful of people living under a rock for the last couple of years. Yeah, yeah, they're on a darkness retreat or something. The show is funny and violent and it's wild. I think it's insane. It's watching the first episode of season two, boy, you pick right up on that. As we enter this tournament, kind of same energy, but even elevated a little bit.
- [07:15]
Anthony Mackie
Well, yeah, we wanted to make season two bigger. And you know, what we were able to do, which I'm really proud of, is bring in new characters and introduce them into this tournament. And you know, from the video game, Calypso, he's the big worker of magic things. And, you know, he grants everybody an opportunity to join this tournament where you play till the death is the only way out. And if you win, you win your one sacred wish, whatever that wish might be, he's going to grant that wish. So everybody who enters the tournament has the potential of winning this wish. So you meet a plethora of characters, and all of them are so different, but so well scripted and made whole by the actors, by how, you know, everybody brings something different to these characters. And it's so fun. Like, we bring back Sweet Tooth. So, you know, Samoa Joe's there still beating people up and throwing me around. And it's just, you know, you have all, like this different atmosphere in this second season with new characters, but always that same amount of comedy and gore.
- [08:32]
Willie Geist
There's some Running man in there. There's some Hunger Games. It's got all these cool elements to it. The competition of it.
- [08:39]
Anthony Mackie
See, you might be. I think we're around the same age. You know, I'm an old head, so I'm an Unk, as they call me now.
- [08:47]
Willie Geist
My son calls me an unknown, constantly calls me Unk. So I have a little respect, right?
- [08:54]
Anthony Mackie
One of my favorite movies as a kid was Cannonball Run.
- [08:57]
Willie Geist
Oh, yeah.
- [08:58]
Anthony Mackie
And this movie, you know, it reminds me of that in a lot of ways, with all of those characters and just the ridiculous nature of all of the cars and all of the people in that movie is kind of like this show.
- [09:09]
Willie Geist
So when you first heard Anthony, going back now to the inception of the show, when you guys started to develop it, you heard about this idea. We're going to base a series on a video game. What was your initial reaction to that?
- [09:22]
Anthony Mackie
I was specifically, this video game, I was excited by it because there was never really a story for Twisted Metal. Like you would click into the game and it was just a bunch of weird characters shooting at each other. You didn't know why, you didn't know where they were from. You didn't know. All you knew was the cars they were driving and what their powers were and what they looked like. Like you saw their driver's license. That was it. So we had the pleasure and the ability to design this world around these characters however we wanted. So, you know, we created these stories. And every season of the game was a different backdrop. Every time the game was re released, it was a different level or a different backdrop. So with us, every season is a different, you know, a different area, a different look, a different feel, because that's how it was with the game. Other than that, we just came up with the story ourselves.
- [10:16]
Willie Geist
There's something going on with video games, too. The Minecraft movie was huge. Super Mario Brothers was huge. This show has blown up. There's that sort of like. It's almost like the borders of media have been blurred. And you kind of take Something people love and give it to you.
- [10:30]
Anthony Mackie
Well, no, you have a generation of kids who bully their parents and make them give them money to go to the movies. Like, you know, we have to understand the power of and the nostalgic nature of entertainment. You know, when I was a kid, you know, I got my first kiss at the movie theater. You know, like we used to sneak off after school not to do bad stuff. We used to go to the movie theater to hang out with our friends who lived on the other side of town. You know, so it was always that communal meeting place. It was always that place where people, kids could get together and feel safe, you know, and with this show and with all of these movies and shows that are based on video games, it's, you know, something that you can do as a family unit. You know, I took my kids to go see. Last movie we saw was Sonic the Hedgehog.
- [11:17]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
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Anthony Mackie
You know, now, you know, it's Jim Carrey. I go to see Jim Carrey, they go to see Sonic the Hedgehog, you know, so it kind of, it works out that way that it gives us something we can do together.
- [11:28]
Willie Geist
You're a very busy actor and father and all the things you do with all the Captain America and the Marvel universe of it all, I have to imagine at this point, just by nature of time, you have to be careful with what you pick and say. I really want to do this. I want to invest my time and effort. So this must have been one of those.
- [11:48]
Anthony Mackie
It definitely was. And you know, as a, as a parent, always say you're trying to find ways to impress your kids, you know, because nobody else matters. If my kids like it, I'm the golden goose, you know, so something like this with twisted metal is so funny because my kids get to see me be silly, you know, they get to see me have fun. They get to see me in a way that they don't normally see me in day to day life because I'm the stern dad, you know, do your homework, go to bed, you know. But with this, they get to see me more in a joke and matter. So they, you know, they love the show. And season one, my son got to play little me. So, you know, being able to bring them into the fold and show them the business and show them me at work, it was pretty cool. And I was, you know, every part of this show has kind of been a building mechanism for me to try and be cool to my kids.
- [12:41]
Willie Geist
Well, it sounds like you've got some work to do on that. Talking to you earlier, you're like, no, they're not into my stuff.
- [12:47]
Anthony Mackie
No, they literally. I'm like, yeah. Yo, I turn on the tv, turn on the tv, go to Nat Geo, your dad's in the water swimming with sharks. They're like, we have a soccer game. Look, I. I'm in the water with sharks that could care less.
- [13:04]
Willie Geist
You're like, I did this for you.
- [13:05]
Anthony Mackie
I did this for you. Risked my life.
- [13:08]
Willie Geist
Even Captain America can't bring him around. I mean, gosh, you know the crowd.
- [13:13]
Anthony Mackie
I will say, I will say I remember the moment when my youngest got it. So my oldest three, they don't really care. You know, I'm dad, you know, let's like hang out, let's make pizza, you know. So we went to go see Sonic the Hedgehog, and I didn't know the Captain America trailer was playing in front of Sonic. So, you know, you bring your kids. I have like just a hundred dollars of, you know, it's popcorn and like sour worms. I don't even know what it is. Like, just shit, right? And my son has this thing where he gets. You have to pay a dollar for an extra little thing of cheese. Oh, now this makes me mad. Yeah, okay. A dollar for an extra little thing of cheese. He has to have four of them because he eats his popcorn by dipping it in the cheese. Now your cheesy fingers are in the popcorn. I don't want no soggy popcorn with your. So now I gotta buy another popcorn. But now the other one wants Raisinets. Cause he likes the chocolate on his popcorn. So he opens the Raisinets while the popcorn's hot. Put the Raisinets in there. So now you got sticky chalk. I don't want none. So now I gotta buy. Well, there's a thousand piece articles of food in front of us, right? So we're sitting there and I look up, I hear my voice, I look up and it's the Captain America trailer in front of Sonic the Hedgehog. So I'm like, oh. So I look at them and they're all face deep, right? So I'm like, hey, man, hey, hey. This trailer crazy, man. What is this? Not one of them. Look up. Come on. Not one of them. So I look at my 16 year old and I'm like, yo, look at the screen. He goes, all right, dad, look up. So the 8 year old looks up and he goes, huh? Right back to the popcorn. That's all you got? That's all I got.
- [15:13]
Willie Geist
Wow.
- [15:13]
Anthony Mackie
I got the. Huh.
- [15:16]
Willie Geist
I mean, your dad is a superhero. On the screen and you won't look up from the Raisin X.
- [15:20]
Anthony Mackie
They could care less. And you know what I had to do midway to movie? Go get more popcorn.
- [15:25]
Willie Geist
Come on.
- [15:26]
Anthony Mackie
Wow. It's a. That's why you just have to get the large because it's free.
- [15:29]
Willie Geist
Refit, right? But not if he's throwing Raisinets in it.
- [15:33]
Anthony Mackie
You got any more Raisinets? Yeah.
- [15:35]
Willie Geist
Oh, my gosh. It gets expensive. Four boys.
- [15:39]
Anthony Mackie
Man, I never knew sour worms were so expensive. I'm like, oh, they gotta have coupons or something.
- [15:46]
Willie Geist
It's not easy being a dad to four dudes. That's right.
- [15:50]
Anthony Mackie
The dude talk is hard.
- [15:52]
Willie Geist
Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Anthony Mackie right after the break. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and I hope you'll join us for season four of Dateline Missing in America. In each episode of Dateline's award winning series, we will focus on one missing persons case and hear from the families, the friends and the investigators, all desperate to find them. You will want to listen closely. Maybe you could help investigators solve a mystery.
- [16:25]
Anthony Mackie
DATELINE Missing in America. All episodes available now. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:31]
Willie Geist
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- [16:41]
Anthony Mackie
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- [16:44]
Willie Geist
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- [16:47]
Anthony Mackie
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- [16:50]
Willie Geist
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- [16:52]
Anthony Mackie
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- [16:54]
Willie Geist
One convenient place to save you the hassle. Head to today.com summersavings to start shopping this week on Meet the Press. As global markets brace for the impact of President Trump's trade deals and higher tariffs at stake, Kristen Welker sits down with White House national economic advisor Kevin Hassett, plus Senator Alex Padilla, only on Meet the Press. Listen to the full episode now. Wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Anthony Mackie. We were talking a minute ago about your growing up in New Orleans and what a great city that is. Just thinking about your boys and what it was like for you to be young and sort of early on to have this performance bug, it seems like. But as you've said, there's no one in your family really in that world. You didn't come from that.
- [17:49]
Anthony Mackie
No.
- [17:50]
Willie Geist
So how was that sparked in you?
- [17:53]
Anthony Mackie
You know, it's funny. It was, ironically enough, second grade.
- [17:58]
Willie Geist
Is this the puppet show?
- [17:59]
Anthony Mackie
This is the puppet show. I was an Inquisitive kid. And if you give an inquisitive kid a puppet, like, you give me a task, I'm like, oh, I can do this task. So arts and crafts, you know, you blow up a balloon, you take flour, water and newspaper, wrap it around a balloon, pop the balloon, and all of a sudden you have, like a hard, like, skull. You paint it, you put the ears on it. You have a person. Dude, look at you. Look at that. Give me a task. Wow. I am a task master. So that was my first job. It was Waltz and Matilda. I was the lead. I was Matilda and crushed it. Standing ovation, three performances.
- [18:43]
Willie Geist
Wow.
- [18:44]
Anthony Mackie
It was second grade. Third, fourth and fifth standing ovation every class. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Three perform only three nights. That's it.
- [18:53]
Willie Geist
Limited run, second grade. Puppet shows rarely get standing ovations, man.
- [18:59]
Anthony Mackie
Let me. I still remember, like, when I did my little puppet bow and everybody went, matilda, Matilda. A star is born. A star is born.
- [19:11]
Willie Geist
You're up there getting encore.
- [19:16]
Anthony Mackie
We were about to do a fourth performance. I mean, tickets, I'm sure it was.
- [19:21]
Willie Geist
They had to add it.
- [19:22]
Anthony Mackie
They were in high demand, man. I'm telling you, I crushed it.
- [19:26]
Willie Geist
So that's second grade. A lot of people have those performances. But then you really start to get serious. You know, you go to performing arts high school, right? In New Orleans. It seems like from a pretty young age, you were locked in and focused. Like, this is going to be my life.
- [19:41]
Anthony Mackie
Well, I knew. I never knew it was different because I never thought of this side of it. Like, I never thought of the film and, like, celebrity side of it. Because we're talking about 1985.
- [19:53]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [19:54]
Anthony Mackie
You know, it was like we had a wood. We didn't have cable, put it that way. Forget the Internet. We didn't have cable. So the idea of being famous was something that was far off or being a TV actor, you know, something as far off in another big, you know, world, you know, I just wanted. I loved acting and I knew it my junior year of high school. We did King Lear at my high school, right? And my friend Tristan played Edgar, and I played Edmund, the bastard son of Gloucester, right? So at the end of the play, Edmund and Edgar face off and we have this big sword battle. And you should not give 16 year olds real metal swords.
- [20:36]
Willie Geist
Well, they were real.
- [20:37]
Anthony Mackie
They were real, right? So we're like, ching, ching. And everybody's like, oh, this crazy, right? So at the end of it, Tristan runs me through, right? And I'm like, oh. And like three girls in the audience jump up and go, Anthony, Yeah, I'mma be an actor. And that was it. That was the moment. Dude, I'll never. Le Petit Theater, which is now tableau restaurant downtown New Orleans. That was the moment I knew I wanted to be in that. Wow.
- [21:08]
Willie Geist
You can pinpoint the moment.
- [21:10]
Anthony Mackie
That was the moment.
- [21:10]
Willie Geist
You looked at those girls and you were like.
- [21:12]
Anthony Mackie
It was literally.
- [21:13]
Willie Geist
That's it, Anthony.
- [21:16]
Anthony Mackie
Wow, I'm good at this.
- [21:19]
Willie Geist
And was your family encouraging of it? Your dad runs a roofing company named Willie also, which I love. And they were behind it the whole way, 100%.
- [21:30]
Anthony Mackie
My family was really remarkable just because of their humble beginnings. I mean, my grandfather was a sharecropper, so my dad had to drop out of school in 8th grade to work with my grandfather. You know, he wasn't allowed to finish school. And my mom, she graduated from a negro appointed high school. So for them it was very important. Education was very important. It was very important that whatever you decided you wanted to be, you had to go to college for it. And, you know, it was just very important that their kids focus on being the best of whatever it is you want it to be. So it was, it wasn't so much that I wanted to be an actor. It was, it was more so that I, you know, even if I was focusing on English or being a teacher or being a nurse or whatever, you know, it was just learning it and mastering it so that when you go into that field, you can be as creative and as open and explorative as you want it to be and whatever you chose to be, because they weren't given those opportunities.
- [22:34]
Willie Geist
I love that they saw the passion you had. They said, let's go.
- [22:36]
Anthony Mackie
There was a lot of passions. I mean, my mom was at the end of the, like, you only got about two more passions, boys, so you better make them count, you know? So. So it was a solid. It was, it was. I was a passionate kid. It was a run of passions. You know, I thought I was going to be a professional fisherman. I remember growing up and this was a huge kit. My entire life. I wanted to be a paleontologist. Oh, yeah. My whole life. Like, I used to go in the backyard and my dad would get so mad. My dad would chase me around the yard. I would just dig holes all around the yard. I'm like, there had to be dinosaurs in New Orleans, right? Dinosaurs gotta eat crawfish. They gotta be dinosaurs in New Orleans. I like oysters. I don't know. They gotta be dinosaurs. So I would dig up my. Oh, it was Bad.
- [23:19]
Willie Geist
Oh, your dad hated that.
- [23:20]
Anthony Mackie
And my dad, you know, if you know one thing about an old black man, he proud of his grass. So if he come in the yard and he just find a hole, I mean, a trench, and I'm standing in the trench like this, I mean, I would. So I thought I was going to be a, you know, a paleontologist, but that didn't work out.
- [23:39]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [23:39]
Anthony Mackie
Right. I don't even know where paleontology school is. You know that one, I was like, I'm going to be Indiana Jones. Archaeology. That didn't work. So there was a lot of them, dude. It was a long line.
- [23:52]
Willie Geist
That was one passion they were having. Let's focus on the acting. No more paleontology.
- [23:57]
Anthony Mackie
It was a long line, man.
- [23:59]
Willie Geist
And then you get into. And go to Juilliard.
- [24:01]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah.
- [24:01]
Willie Geist
Right here. Up a few blocks from where we're sitting right now.
- [24:04]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah.
- [24:05]
Willie Geist
And you graduate out into the world of theater in New York City.
- [24:08]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah.
- [24:09]
Willie Geist
Was that thrilling time for you? I've got this Juilliard degree. Let's see where it takes me. Or scary.
- [24:16]
Anthony Mackie
It was. I'll say. I. And this might be my, you know, idiot mind speaking. But I've. I've never. I was never afraid because to me, I just. I wanted to, like, do plays at the Guthrie. I wanted to work at, you know, on the way. On the Old vict. I wanted to, you know, go up to Poughkeepsie and do a play. I loved acting. I wanted to be a working actor. So this idea of, you know, everything else was always foreign to me. Like, my brother always laughed because I was like, yo, if I could make $200 a week, I'm good. Like, if I pay my taxes, I get two roommates. That's, you know, 1500 for a three bedroom. That leave me 300. I'm good. Like, that's how my math worked. Living in New York at the time. And it was so funny getting out of school. Like, the sky was the limit, you know. I always wanted to be able to create and evolve as an actor. That's why I always stayed on the stage. That's why it was so important for me to not only see theater, but be a part of the theater community, to have those conversations and be a part of those conversations. So working at the Public Theater, that was a huge platform for me starting my career. You know, all the theater companies here in New York that I work with, you know, Second Stage and, you know, New York Theater Workshop and all those companies that gave me those early roles Big or small, you know, they were huge opportunities for me to find myself and my ability as an actor. Because coming out of Juilliard, the great thing about Juilliard was this. Juilliard did not teach you a technique. It wasn't Meisner. It wasn't, you know, Edith Skinner or anything like that. It was more so the idea of creating a technique from yourself, finding your strengths, building off your strengths from the light that's within you and evolving the character from them. And, you know, we had some amazing teachers that really deconstructed the idea of what acting was and built it back on top of us. So by the time we were in our fourth year, our third year, you know, we're a bunch of stupid, broke college students. We. My friend wrote this play about Tupac called Up against the Wind, and we did it at school for no money. You know, my friend Rosie directed it. Her husband Jonathan did the music. I built the sets. Like, we just. We did a play. Three performances. Never go to the four, only three, right? So this weekend we do the play, and it was a school production about Tupac at Juilliard. So everybody came, and Jim Nicola from New York Theater Workshop came to see the play, and he was like, I want to bring this off Broadway. And it was. It was crazy to me because, like, I. I begged to do that play. I begged to play that role. When we first was doing the readings, I was Biggie. And I'll tell you this, you might not believe it. I was a great biggie. I got rave reviews on my Biggie. Anybody will tell you I got rave reviews. Rave reviews, okay? And so the guy who was playing Tupac graduated. So I got bumped into Tupac and from that went to New York Theater Workshop. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm off Broadway. Like, I'm making $350 a week. I'm rich. You know, Like, I can get a bigger apartment, right? And Molly Finn, God rest her soul, amazing casting director, came to see the play and introduced me to Curtis Hansen. Curtis Hansen was doing 8 mile at the time. And the biggest question in the New York Times and everywhere else was, how do these Juilliard kids know so much about hip hop? That was the big, literally living section. New York Times. These Juilliard kids are doing a hip hop play. Wow.
- [28:20]
Willie Geist
Come on.
- [28:21]
Anthony Mackie
Come on, man. So that was, you know, the rest was history. The idea of acting, the formative ability to construct a character was something that was always interesting to me. And Juilliard really played a. A vital Part in that because the teachers were so just giving and, you know, we had so little, but we made so much from so little that even now my classmates and I look back on that time and we realize how. How lucky we were.
- [28:55]
Willie Geist
Yeah. You always look back fondly, even when you've reached your success. Right. About how it began.
- [29:00]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah. In those days, when you're in it is hell on earth. But once you get past it and look back at it, it's ironic how that little moment, that little win, you know, that little step constructs so much in your future, you know, And I always, always tell my kids and their friends, everybody just needs a win. Like one moment where you see an obstacle and you beat that obstacle. And a win always begets a win. And there's so many kids out here today who just don't get wins, you know, every time they have to take a L. And that L is so hard that it just beats you and beats you and beats you. And I look at it, you know, theater for me was that first, that first win, you know, I think back to Walt and Matilda and that, that those rave reviews, the kindergarten look. The elementary school newspaper said I was quite possibly the best actor to come through that second day second grade drama program. Wow. I still have the news. The elementary school newspaper.
- [30:05]
Willie Geist
And they're famously tough critics.
- [30:06]
Anthony Mackie
So that was good. Yo. If you see the dude who was the play critic at my elementary school, he looked like he wore glasses. He had a receding hairline in sixth grade. I'm serious. Like he used to wear. And I used to hate him because he used to wear these little vests, like the argyle vest. I'm like, I'll beat you up. He was a tough critic, dude.
- [30:24]
Willie Geist
He was ready to rip you.
- [30:25]
Anthony Mackie
He would review the marching band.
- [30:28]
Willie Geist
Really?
- [30:28]
Anthony Mackie
Oh, it was crazy.
- [30:30]
Willie Geist
Wow.
- [30:30]
Anthony Mackie
He would review the cafeteria. Dude. Oh, man.
- [30:37]
Willie Geist
He's running an annoying website now 100% right. Where he just.
- [30:41]
Anthony Mackie
100, I'm sure. He gives me a dirty. With 12 followers, he gives me a dirty review every movie I do.
- [30:48]
Willie Geist
Stick around for more of my conversation with Anthony Mackie right after a quick break.
- [30:55]
Anthony Mackie
Taking over the helm of NBC Nightly News, a 75 year old broadcast. It's a great responsibility. Good evening. I'm Tom Yamas. You have to go out there to bring people at home closer to the store.
- [31:06]
Willie Geist
Wildfires continue to be a threat.
- [31:08]
Anthony Mackie
With that massive hurricane comes the massive response. The best reporters in our business know how to listen.
- [31:14]
Willie Geist
And when you listen, you get the truth. For NBC News. NBC News.
- [31:17]
Anthony Mackie
NBC News. I'm Tom Gon.
- [31:19]
Willie Geist
Let's. That's what we do every night. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas evenings on NBC. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Anthony Mackie. Well, what's so great about what you're saying is you have these theater dreams, and then within a few months, Curtis Hansen says, hey, what about Hollywood? Right. So you're happy with where you are. You're doing the Tupac. Off Broadway brings you in. I think you auditioned for the part that ultimately went to mackay Pfeiffer.
- [31:48]
Anthony Mackie
Right, Right.
- [31:49]
Willie Geist
But you get this role of Papa Doc that is so memorable.
- [31:52]
Anthony Mackie
Right, Right.
- [31:53]
Willie Geist
And what an experience for a young actor to be on that set with Eminem, of course, but those other great actors. And under Curtis Hansen at your first movie.
- [32:02]
Anthony Mackie
First movie. And the funny thing about it was Papa Doc was only, like, four lines. I was only supposed to be there for, like, a week. And Curtis kept adding stuff and building the character to where 90% of what you see in the movie was never there. Like, I was. I wasn't. I was in the first scene in the rap battle. Like, that was it. And the rap battle wasn't even shown. It was just talked about in a script, like, if you read the original script. It's crazy. It's crazy how different that movie turned out.
- [32:29]
Willie Geist
No rap battle.
- [32:30]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah. It shows you how great of a director Curtis Hansen was.
- [32:34]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Anthony Mackie
So for me, it was all about Kurt, you know, being able to be around Curtis and learn from Curtis. Watching him direct and, you know, the way he controlled a set and navigated the. The performances of the different actors. It was because all of us were kids, man. You look at Omar Benson Miller, you look at Eugene Bur. You look at all those. Like, we were. Evan. We were all kids. We were excited about per diem. Like, I remember when we first found out that the money they gave us at the beginning of the week was to eat and get housing. Like, so this is free. Yeah. This does not count against my money. No. You were suspicious.
- [33:14]
Willie Geist
What's the catch? Right.
- [33:17]
Anthony Mackie
I remember when we first learned what per diem was, you know, so it was just one of those jobs where a bunch of people who had no idea what they were doing came together and found something, like, magical. You know, we kind of, like, lit a match at the right moment, and Eminem just happened to be one of the most talented people of our generation, but also a hard worker. Like, you know, to think he was doing his album, he was doing the music for the movie. He was starring in the movie, but also producing. I mean, he just bust his every single day. And because of that, we all became like this little bust your ass crew, you know? And it just worked out.
- [34:00]
Willie Geist
The final rap battle scene in particular is one now, I'll tell you, holds up.
- [34:04]
Anthony Mackie
Now, see, I had a big argument about the final rap battle.
- [34:08]
Willie Geist
You did.
- [34:08]
Anthony Mackie
Oh, I had the illest rap ever written. Like, if I do, if I would, I wrote the best rap ever for this battle rap, okay? Because I was telling Curtis, I was like, look, I should go first, he should go second. And it'd be a tie. And then we have the battle. Cause you gotta see me go at him. You gotta see Papa Doc roast him once, right? He comes back and it's a tie. That's when for the finale, he goes first. And I ain't got nothing else to say. Cause he come at me too hard. Ah, raise the stakes.
- [34:49]
Willie Geist
He said, no, you lost that battle.
- [34:51]
Anthony Mackie
He said no. He said, no, I'm gonna see. Oh, I gotta look and see if I still got the ride. My road, dude, it was hard. It was hard. He couldn't have. It would have been dismantlement.
- [35:02]
Willie Geist
Would have changed the trajectory of the movie.
- [35:04]
Anthony Mackie
Whole different movie. Whole different movie. It would have been called Cranbrook's Finest.
- [35:13]
Willie Geist
I love too that Eminem planted a few little nuggets in there about you. You said, well, what pissed me off?
- [35:19]
Anthony Mackie
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Yes, yes. So what made me mad? So I did go to private school, right? When I was in school, I got in some trouble. I was fed up with New Orleans. I said, enough is enough. And I got my way into private school and I went to boarding school in North Carolina because I had that opportunity. But if you ever have the chance, go to Detroit, Michigan and drive to Cranbrook. That is not in high school. That is a full fledged five star university campus. So I was like, dude, there's so many private schools in Michigan. Why you gotta pick that one? Like, that was a dig. That was a specific Michigan dig. In a way. Only people from Michigan can get that line, right. Cause if you've never seen Cranbrook, you just think, oh, it's a bunch of nerds. Blah, blah. No, no, these ain't nerds. These are nerds. Yeah, like I'm in the yacht club, right?
- [36:19]
Willie Geist
Fancy nerds.
- [36:19]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah. 17 year old in boat shoes. That's what it is.
- [36:24]
Willie Geist
The ultimate insult.
- [36:25]
Anthony Mackie
In Michigan, you're a 16 year old and you know what pancetta is? That's what it is. That's what it is. That's what he did. That's why I was like, yo, we ain't acting. I'm about to fight Eminem.
- [36:37]
Willie Geist
No 16 year old should know what pancette is.
- [36:40]
Anthony Mackie
Come on, man. Come on. What's your favorite cheese brie? No. Get out of here. Kiss my man. Oh, God.
- [36:49]
Willie Geist
We only have a few minutes left, so I won't make you walk through your whole IMDb page, but obviously that to a lot of great things. Million Dollar Baby in the Hurt Locker and on and on and on. And then in 2014 comes the marvel Universe, which I didn't realize until I was reading up on you that you had sort of been talking behind the scenes about Black Panther.
- [37:10]
Anthony Mackie
I knew at some point in time they had to do Black Panther. And, you know, Black Panther was always a phenomenal comic character. And when it came around, I just want them to know and put my hat in the race for the fact that when Black Panther came around, you know, the black dude from Hurt Locker wanted to do it, you know, and it was funny because so reach out to them several times and ask for the opportunity to just audition. So get a call back and they're like, look, we want to meet with you about something. So I'm like, oh, this is it. So they fly me to la, and it's a very LA, like, setting. We go to this little hotel, like a boutique hotel, swimming pool in the middle. It's all white. Like, they're the old ladies sitting there with, like, the mirrors, like this, like, lobster boobs, right? And we're sitting at this table outside. It's hot as hell, right? And everybody has on shades. I'm from New Orleans. I'm like, I don't have shades. I need to buy shades, right? So Anthony and Joe Russo are at the table, and executive producer Nate Moore is at the table. So I look at them and, you know, they already look like mafia dudes. Like, you know, Joe Russo, you know, he's like. It's like, you ever saw Goodfellas? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one of those dudes. He's Joe Pesci, right? So, and Anthony Russo, he's the quiet one. I think he maybe said two words in the whole meeting. One of them was hello and one of them was thanks. That's it, right? But the whole time he's looking at me like this, and I can see his eyes under his shades. So I'm like, right, so Joe's talking, Nate's laughing at Joe, and I'm Like, I don't know how to play this. Like, I'm from New Orleans. Should I order a beer? Like, oh, I should drink water. Oh, you have apple juice? No, we don't have apple juice. Damn. Apple juice is always a safe bet, right? Right. So I'm like, I'll have water. They asked me the biggest question of my life. Still or sparkling from New Orleans? I don't know what sparkling water is. I was like, give me sparkling water. It sound fancy, dude. I took a drink of this sparkling water. My throat was on fire. Like, my mouth's dry. And they're like, so what do you think? I'm like, and Joe goes, wow, you seem really excited. I'm like, so he's like, we have a movie. We have a character we'd like you to play. We can't tell you the movie. We can't tell you the character, but if you're interested, we would like to have you in our movie. So now I'm stone cold dry because I'm drinking sparkling water for the first time in my life. And I'm like, well, okay. Okay. So shake my hands. Anthony Russo. Don't do nothing. He goes, thanks. Oh, this dude is a murderer. Why are you so angry with all these lobster women around? Right. So shake their hands. I leave, and the next week get offered the role of Sam Wilson, which I never considered to be brought into the Captain America fold. Right. You know, because there hadn't been a character like that that was brought into another character's film series. You know, it's always been Spider Man.
- [40:41]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [40:41]
Anthony Mackie
It's always been Iron Man.
- [40:42]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [40:42]
Anthony Mackie
Like, it's always been that boom, boom, boom, boom. So to bring in a secondary character was a huge moment in the. In the. The Marvel universe. Yeah. And, you know, I think Sam Wilson deserved that. Stan Lee said, Sam Wilson, of all the characters he wrote, Sam Wilson deserved that because of who he was and what he represented in the comic book. So it was. It was a proud moment. I'm very happy that it was Sam Wilson because he was such a great character.
- [41:15]
Willie Geist
Sam Wilson, Falcon, Captain America, ultimately.
- [41:19]
Anthony Mackie
Right.
- [41:20]
Willie Geist
Can you speak to Anthony what it's been like to be in the middle of the biggest movie franchise in the history of movie franchises. What it's meant to you professionally, but also personally to be this well known now around the world, and not just as a actor, but as a superhero in the eyes of somebody who sees you walking down the street. What does that feel like?
- [41:41]
Anthony Mackie
You know, it's interesting. Like, every blessing is a curse, right? And when you think of the theater kid from New Orleans who found something that he fell in love with and wanted to follow that and experience that and live in that comfort of what he loved, it's very different than being looked upon as the celebrity in this pop culture time that we live in. And the idea of not only having a target on you for being a role or a character I recognize, but have a target on you for many different reasons for many different people in many different ways, and not all those targets are good targets. So it's been interesting. It's been interesting. But like I said, the biggest thing for me is just, you know, I get to, like, brag to my kids. You know, I get to show my kids, you know, my. My kid got to meet Thor. You know what I mean? They gave me, like, 10. Cool. Right? Right. You know, so it's just. That's the. The. The biggest thing for me is, like, dad first and superhero second. And at some point in time, I hope my kids consider me enough of a superhero as a dad that it matches the way people look at me as a superhero for Marvel.
- [43:11]
Willie Geist
That's well said. That's well said. It feels like, too, you've done a good job by being in New Orleans of maybe quieting some of the hysteria that would be around you if you're in la.
- [43:22]
Anthony Mackie
Yeah, yeah. New Orleans. Nobody don't care. I mean, they really, like. I don't even get, like, free appetizers at restaurants. You know, it's like, if you go to a restaurant here and a famous person walk in, they're like, oh, man, look, Willie, come on in here. Your meal is on me. Thanks for coming. Take a picture and put it on the wall. Right? Right.
- [43:43]
Willie Geist
Here's every dessert. Here's Anthony.
- [43:46]
Anthony Mackie
Right? That never happens for me. And I know all the people who own the restaurants, and they still make me pay. Like, there's no. The biggest thing. This. The biggest thing. I got a free fishing charter. After my movie came out.
- [44:00]
Willie Geist
Ooh.
- [44:01]
Anthony Mackie
I went back home, movie came out. Dude was like, I would be honored to take you fishing. You don't have to pay for the charter. Free day of fishing. Let's go.
- [44:14]
Willie Geist
All day was worth all that work.
- [44:16]
Anthony Mackie
That's it. 25 years of work for a free fishing charter. I will take it.
- [44:23]
Willie Geist
Well, congratulations on this new season on all your success.
- [44:27]
Anthony Mackie
Thank you.
- [44:27]
Willie Geist
That was great.
- [44:28]
Anthony Mackie
Appreciate it.
- [44:29]
Willie Geist
It was fun. My big thanks again to Anthony for a great conversation. You can see Twisted Metal streaming now in its second season on Peacock. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Podcast. As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda, follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people. The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this. Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at msnbc.com project47.