Bowen Yang Reflects on His SNL Fame and "Wicked" Breakthrough

Summary

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist: Bowen Yang Reflects on His SNL Fame and "Wicked" Breakthrough

Release Date: April 13, 2025

In this engaging episode of NBC's "Sunday TODAY with Willie Geist," host Willie Geist sits down with Bowen Yang, a standout star from "Saturday Night Live" (SNL), to delve into Yang's journey from his immigrant upbringing to his breakthrough roles in both comedy and film. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, professional insights, and heartfelt reflections, offering listeners a comprehensive look into Yang's multifaceted career and personal life.

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Early Life and Cultural Heritage

Bowen Yang opens up about his unique upbringing, navigating multiple cultures and languages. Born to Chinese immigrant parents, Yang spent his early years in Australia, Montreal, and Aurora, Colorado, before moving to New York City to attend NYU.

Yang: "In Montreal, I was absorbing so many different things—French culture, Mandarin music at home, and American pop culture like the Spice Girls. It was a sponge-like experience that shaped my maximalist approach to life."

The influence of his father's humble beginnings in Inner Mongolia also plays a significant role in Yang's narrative. He shares the complexities of balancing traditional Chinese values with American societal norms, especially regarding his sexuality.

Yang: "Growing up, I had a fraught relationship with my parents because I was gay, and they weren't ready to accept it. We even went to conversion therapy, which was incredibly painful and detrimental."

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Breaking into Comedy and SNL

Yang discusses his passion for comedy, which blossomed during his time in the suburbs of Denver. His early experiences performing at the Bovine Metropolis Theater, despite doubts about his acceptance, forged a resilient spirit essential for his later success.

Yang: "Bombing in front of 30-year-olds taught me to develop armor against failure. It gave me the thickest skin, which is crucial for a show like SNL where every week feels like the most important week of your life."

His journey to SNL was marked by perseverance. After four auditions, Yang initially joined as a writer before being promoted to the cast.

Yang: "I thought no one would ever hire an effeminate Asian man on SNL. But somehow, my tape slipped through the cracks. Meeting Lorne Michaels made me realize he saw potential in me that I hadn't fully recognized myself."

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Transition to Acting: "Wedding Banquet" and "Wicked"

Beyond SNL, Yang has made significant strides in acting. He recently starred in "Wedding Banquet," a remake of the 1993 Ang Lee classic, and played a pivotal role in the blockbuster film "Wicked."

Willie Geist: "The Wedding Banquet is such a beautiful movie because it's funny, it's heartbreaking—it's all the things a really good movie can be."

In "Wicked," Yang reflects on the personal significance of being part of a story that resonated with his own experiences growing up.

Yang: "Watching the original "Wedding Banquet" while still in the closet was extremely resonant for me. Being part of the updated version feels like completing a personal and professional journey."

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Podcasting and Building Community

Yang and his collaborator, Matt Rogers, have also maintained a longstanding podcast, "Las Culturistas," which has grown alongside his career.

Yang: "The podcast was the first time Matt and I had our stamp on something that others wanted to join. It built a community that continues to support us today."

This venture not only showcases Yang's versatility but also highlights his commitment to fostering a sense of community within the comedy world.

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Balancing Fame and Personal Life

As Yang's fame from SNL and "Wicked" has grown, he shares how he manages the pressures and maintains a semblance of normalcy.

Yang: "My life is pretty much the same as it was 10 years ago. I can walk to the grocery store and buy a baguette for myself. It's all about perspective and not letting fame overwhelm me."

He emphasizes the importance of maintaining personal routines and staying grounded despite the expanding circles of his professional life.

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Reflections on SNL's Impact

Yang expresses deep admiration for SNL's legacy and his experiences during the 50th anniversary celebration.

Yang: "Being part of SNL during its 50th anniversary was surreal and gratifying. Meeting my heroes and being surrounded by the history of the show was an awe-inspiring experience."

He recounts the significance of his first sketch as Kim Jong Un and the validation he felt from industry legends like Will Ferrell.

Yang: "After performing the iceberg sketch, Will Ferrell emailed me, saying, 'That was amazing.' It was a signal that this was something special, something cherished."

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Connecting Past and Present: Visit to Gershwin Theater

In a nostalgic segment, Yang and Geist visit the Gershwin Theater, linking Yang's childhood aspirations with his current achievements.

Yang: "When I was 14, my family couldn't get tickets to "Wicked," and I pressed my face against the glass hoping to get a glimpse. Now, being part of the "Wicked" movies feels like a dream come true."

This visit symbolizes the culmination of Yang's lifelong passion for performance and his journey to fulfilling his early dreams.

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Final Thoughts and Future Endeavors

As the conversation wraps up, Yang reflects on his continuous personal growth and the balance between his comedic and dramatic pursuits.

Yang: "Identity is a cobbled-together thing at any moment. Working on "Wicked" and SNL has flattened me psychologically, forcing me to confront who I am and how I value myself."

Willie Geist concludes the episode by highlighting Yang's upcoming projects and the mutual respect between host and guest.

Willie Geist: "Bowen, thank you for this incredible conversation. Congratulations on "Wedding Banquet," and I can't wait to see what you do next."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist" offers a profound and entertaining exploration of Bowen Yang's life and career. From his cultural heritage and personal struggles to his triumphs on SNL and in film, Yang provides listeners with an intimate look at what it takes to succeed in the competitive world of entertainment while staying true to oneself.

Notable Quotes:

• Willie Geist (03:21): "He's one of the funniest, smartest, and most charming people you'll ever have the good fortune to sit down with."
• Yang (25:32): "Identity is this really fickle thing... it's not something that you arrive at until much later in life."
• Geist (40:26): "Meeting people who had completely different experiences from me was something that I'll never forget."

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Enjoy this insightful conversation with Bowen Yang as he navigates his path through fame, family, and personal identity, only on the Sunday Sitdown podcast.

Transcript

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[Bowen Yang]

Foreign.

[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am extraordinarily excited to bring you my conversation today with SNL star Bowen Yang, one of the funniest, smartest and most charming people you'll ever have the good fortune to sit down and have a conversation with. He's come so far in his life, I don't think most people realize he kind of burst onto the scene on Saturday Night Live. Of course he's had movie roles, including most recently a huge role in Wicked and the second Wicked movie, Part two, that's coming out this Thanksgiving. But man, his parents are from China. They're immigrants to the United States. They actually went from China to Australia, then to Montreal and then to Aurora, Colorado, in the suburbs of Denver, where I think the breakdown and Bowen talks about it is he lived for only six months in Australia, then he lived from zero to nine in Montreal, nine to 18 in Colorado, and then went to New York to go to school at nyu. But always kind of dreaming of performance. Loved snl. But his family, his father is from Inner Mongolia, literally grew up and lived as a young man in straw in mud huts. Bowen Yang is one generation removed from that. And he talks about his parents, who he loves but has a fraught relationship while he's growing up because he's gay. And that is not something that that his parents are ready to accept or come to terms with and in fact try to help him Change. You'll hear about that incredible part of the story. Always with a good sense of humor about it. Just a really fun conversation. He's in a new film that is called the Wedding Banquet. It's a remake of a 1993 Ang Lee movie, and he'll tell you all about that. But obviously we talk about SNL 50, what it was like to be there, the 50th anniversary, as a guy who grew up loving the show and now is on the show, to be surrounded by the he so looked up to for all those years. So I really think you're gonna enjoy spending a little time, as I did with Bowen Yang right now on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Bowen Yang]

Bowen. Willie, so happy to see you.

I am loving this casual Willie Geist. Lean back into your seat. This is. I'm getting the real you.

You know, this is us at, like, a little lunch in town. Right.

I mean, I invited a bunch of people to come, and they should be here anyway.

I know it sounds hot, especially as we thought it was.

I guess not.

No, it's great. It's a great spot.

We love it.

I'm so happy to see you and thank you for doing this in the middle of an SNL week, because I think, as most people know, these are crazy weeks for you guys on the cast, I guess.

Is this the official sort of sign that I am a little too comfortable there? Is that, like, it's no problem. My first few seasons, anything on my schedule for Tuesday would have been cataclysmic.

Right.

And yet this is so relaxing and grounding for me, and I'm looking forward to going into the office later. I don't know. This is all good. And this is maybe a sign that I've gotten too, I don't know, too complacent.

Well, I think you're comfortable, which is a good thing. And you're not, like, looking over your shoulder. You're an established star of snl, which is nice.

Thank you. Established, which. That's such a wild word because I feel like no one, the whole story of that place is that no one, except for one person, feels comfortable there.

Right.

And that one person is Kenan Thompson. No, it's Lorne Michaels and Kenan. Two people. Two people.

Well, so this week, Jack Black is coming in to host the musical guests Elton John and Brandi Carlisle together. How exciting is it for you to go into a week like this where you just know it's gonna be a good show? You've got a comedian who knows what he's Doing and two of the greatest artists on Earth.

I feel like you can sort of. There's a dissonance where you want to be able to push yourself and give these people your best. And then there's also this part of you that's like. But it would also be a great week if I just sat back and, like, relaxed and just took this show in like the rest of the audience. And so that's sort of the thing about SNL is that it brings in all these different people from all different career vantages and you get the benefit of just absorbing it. And I can't believe it.

Do you still feel that pressure of today? You'll go in. You want to make sure you get something on the show you're writing, you're pitching, doing all those things.

Yes. That never goes away. I'm giving you such an inconsistent story here. Either I'm so comfortable or nothing's nothing. I'm panicked or I'm panicked. I think this week, because it's Jack Black. Because that's someone who, like, was so confident and inviting and has been so confident in inviting his career. I feel like I just want to give him something, you know, Like, Heidi Gardner and I were just talking yesterday about how excited we are for him. It's been 20 years since he hosted.

It's amazing, isn't it? You figure he's the kind of guy who comes around every couple of years. Right. That makes it more special.

It makes it way more special. I feel like he has one of the most enviable careers, but also, like, no one else could have that career except him.

Right.

I'm like, oh, right. He was in High Fidelity and he was in the Holiday and then he was in. You know, he's voiced every franchise ip, you know, like, he's a great entertainer in the truest sense.

It's gonna be a great show. And I wanna talk more about your history with SNL in a little bit, but we've gotta start with the Wedding Banquet, which I just finished this morning. Is such a beautiful movie because it's funny, it's heartbreaking, it's all the things a really good movie can be. I think most people are not familiar with the history. That in 1993 it was an Ang Lee film.

Yes.

And that you guys have sort of updated it in some way. Is that a fair way to describe it?

That's the perfect. That's the most printable version of what we can say. No. Just because it's so convoluted what we've done with it now in a way that is hopefully inviting and appealing to people. But it's this kind of story that would only work now because it's a whole marriage plot comedy of errors in the original. And we've updated it now so that it sort of tracks with this fertility journey that one of the couples is going through and this like, sham marriage that has to be put up even though gay marriage is legal now. Not like it was back in the 90s. But it has all these really great check ins with how we feel about institutions like marriage in the year 2025. And I promise it's funny and it's not as academic as I'm making it sound.

No, it's very funny. But it's also, I mean, there's some really powerful, difficult scenes. Do you enjoy stepping into that realm of acting because you're so known for comedy?

I do like that exercise and that challenge. I just feel like it is sort of the flipped version of what most people in showbiz say, which is they say, oh, comedy's the hardest thing. And I think the thing that I've taken for granted working at SNL is that, like, I am. Not that I'm great at it, but I'm just used to cracking the code on how to make something funny in every small, granular way that something big and dramatic and emotionally suffused like this, like this sort of dramedy is a little bit of a delayed learning experience for me. And I really like doing it and I hope I get to do it more.

Did you have any relationship with the 1993 movie, whether growing up or later in your life, where it spoke to you in some way?

Absolutely. I feel like I got my Ang Lee education in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, as did my parents. And then it wasn't until college that I would, like, go through his filmography. And I watched the Wedding Banquet, and this was when I was still in the closet with my parents, or I should say I was back in the closet with my parents. And then watching this movie, having it be about this acceptance narrative for this main character who is not brave enough to come out to his traditional Chinese parents, was extremely resonant for me. And it ends on this sort of somber but still hopeful note where he says goodbye to them at the airport after they find out about his life. And it kind of gave me this great sort of reality check, but also this vision and this fantasy for what might be possible in the future. And now my parents and I are very just steady and loving and generous with that part of my life. And I feel like that's also an amazing way for me to personally check in with this movie is that the last time I had any encounter with it, I was in a very different place. And it's really special to be part of the updated version.

If you think about 32 years ago, there weren't many places, if any, for someone like you to see a story about who you were at the time, right?

Absolutely. And it gets to the point where, I mean, if we're gonna talk about, like, being on snl, like, I never had any vision for that. I never watched the show, even though I watched it every week. I never had the thought of, I'm gonna be on that show someday, because it just didn't seem close. It felt so far away. And just having this all sort of culminate in this movie. Being in something like Wicked, being in snl, just feels very surreal and also very gratifying at the same time.

It's a wonderful cast. Yes. People are gonna be very happy to see some familiar faces, maybe some new faces. What was the experience of making the film like for you? Because you've done Wicked, which is about as big as you can go. You've done snl, which is a totally unique experience. What was this film like for you?

This was a warm hug of a shoot, much like the film is a warm hug, and it's about family. I think the biggest compliment my friend Matt Rogers has given to this film is that you can tell the layout of the house that they live in. That is how, like, intimate and inviting this is. But shooting it was so lovely. I met Lily Gladstone at 30 Rock at our beloved 30 Rock. She was doing Seth Meyers, and I went down to say hi to her. At that point, we had both been attached. She has this amazing story where she had a sibling who was. Let me take this again. She has this amazing story where her mother. Before Lily was born, her mother was going to have a son named August. The pregnancy did not come to term, unfortunately. But in indigenous culture, there's this concept of, like, star siblings and rainbow children. Lily's a rainbow child because she was. She was birthed into the world because of this son. And then my first season on snl, Lily Gladstone's mother is watching the TV and going, that's my son. She sees me on screen and she goes, that's your brother, Lily. Like, she just felt this sort of cosmic, metaphysical connection to me.

Oh, my God.

And I didn't realize this until Lily and I had met that. Like, we're siblings already. Like, it made me sort of so, so touched. And it just made that experience of working with her and still being connected with her and still being friends with her so special. I got to meet Lily's parents. I think that's indicative of the whole experience of watching. Of doing the film, was that it was this familial experience.

And that comes across on the screen, too. It's really a really beautiful film. Congratulations on it. Just hearing you talk about your own experience growing up, you really do see reflections of it in this movie. What were those? I mean, we were just talking about your journey, which is born in Australia, moved to Montreal when you're, like, six months old. Then at nine, you moved to Aurora, Colorado, outside of Denver.

Yes.

So you've had all these different sort of. And of course, your heritage is Chinese.

Yes.

So you have all these different cultures in the mix. So what was it like to be you growing up? We can start in Montreal. Assuming you don't recall Australia.

I don't.

What was it like?

We still had Vegemite in the house, so there's that. What I recall from Montreal was just being in a place where there were so many different things coming at you. You had French culture coming at you. You had to learn French in school, but then you also had to learn English in order to sort of, like, get around. And on Sundays, you would go to Chinese school and learn Mandarin. Like, I was just this sponge that was kind of oversaturated with all of these different languages and cultural touchstones in terms of, like, you know, listening to Mandarin music in the house, but then going to school and talking about the Spice Girls with the other kids. Like, there was just this multitude of things that I was taking in. And I think that's probably shaped something about me now where I'm like, give it to me. Like, I'll take it all. Like, I love everything. I really feel like this maximalist in terms of what I like and what I want to play with and the things that I want to do. And that was what I remember most from Canada was just letting it all come to you. And I didn't have to go very far to, like, get. Get something interesting culturally. And then we moved to the suburbs of Colorado, where it was very, very different but very, very fun. It was where I started to love comedy. Cause you would get this syndication block of, like, the Simpsons, Seinfeld, and then you'd watch SNL, you'd watch MADtv, you'd watch all These different comedy shows. And that felt like it was dovetailing off of the Canada experience of just like absorbing it. And those are the distinct things that.

I think should go back one step further and say that your father lived. To call it rural poverty is to sort of understate what it was, I think. Right. He lived in mud and straw huts and inner Mongolia. This is one generation ago. So the cultural. I'm thinking about the cultural clash that was going on in your house, which is a very traditional Chinese family at home. And then you're out in the suburbs of America.

Right.

Absorbing pop culture. And without. I think you didn't even have cable, you were just watching these syndicated shows, right. On network tv.

Kids. There were things called bunny ears. Antenna.

Yes.

On TV sets. And I would have to like orient it in such a crazy way. I was like, oh, I think the radio tower is like east of us. I was so wild. But yeah, it was a very manual experience for me to get my culture.

You know, I remember, I remember. And so how were those in conflict in your life? Would you say that traditional Chinese culture at home versus American popular culture that you were loving and absorbing?

Uh huh. I don't think they were ever in conflict. Especially now that I'm older. I feel like they were just balances. They were counterweighing each other in the sense that you could appreciate all this culture and then get this perspective that, oh, but there are things that are permanent, there are things that are built to last. And like, family is one of those things. And something about snl, even back then, as I was watching it as a kid, I knew that it was this ephemeral, regenerative thing, recursive thing that like, we're never gonna get the same show twice. And I don't know, conceptually, I know I'm getting a little deep, but like, even back then, like, I knew that there were things that you had to invest in for the future and things that you could enjoy in the present. And those are things that live alongside each other. And yeah, I think that's the thing that I know now as an adult is that both of those things are valuable. Both of those ideas are things that kind of get you through.

Yeah. Maybe enrich each other a little bit too, probably.

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Bowen Yang right after the break.

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Willie Geist]

Now more of my conversation with Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

We were talking before we started about snl. There's just something about being a young kid. I grew up in the suburbs of New York and New Jersey and it's late at night and it's Saturday and you're staying up later than you should probably stay up and you're making it all the way to 1:00 and then Showtime at the Apollo comes on after that. Maybe you watch a little of that to start. As a young kid growing up in the suburbs, what was it about SNL that so clicked with you? What did you love about it?

What I loved about SNL as a young kid in the suburbs was that it was pop culture boot camp. It was like this digest, this weekly digest on what was happening in the world and what was happening in entertainment. And especially moving to the us, Having to like reprioritize my languages even. I was like, okay, French has to be on the back burner. I gotta beef up my English within a matter of like weeks so that I can like be sociable at school. Like watching SNL was my way of gathering information so that I could go into the week at school and be like, oh yeah. Did you see what happened on like trl? Like it was that kind of thing. Like I wasn't getting cable. SNL was my lifeline in terms of knowing what was up. And something about watching SNL at home made New York feel so close because New York felt so far away. And I mean, there was just something in my bones that I felt about wanting to move here. And SNL just made it seem like the most fun, shimmering, glittery place that was still edgy and a little bit gross and gritty and still so mesmerizing. And something about SNL watching these people at good nights, like hug and congratulate each other over, you know, saxophone music just felt so mythical and mystical. Yeah.

And then at some point you actually start to perform. You're still keeping up your grades. Really good student.

I don't know if I was a.

Great student on a path to a great college. So you did something right. But you do find some, some of those theater people. You do find improv kids.

Yes.

And you pursue that a little bit simultaneously, right?

Yeah, in a way that is. I don't know if it's precocious or if it's ill conceived. I was going to like, I would go to like these improv theaters in downtown Denver that had like a liquor license. Like, what is a 14 year old kid doing there? My parents had no idea and I'm glad they didn't because they would not have allowed me. But yeah, you would go every Monday to the Bovine Metropolis Theater in Denver, Colorado. Bovine Metropolis Theater, which is a play on Cowtown, which I did not realize until I was 20s. It's right there. And you'd go there every Monday. You would just bomb in front of 30 year olds who were like, what are these teenagers doing here? And it got me, I think it kind of like inured me to something. It gave me this, it didn't give me chops, but it gave me this like armor in terms of like failing at comedy.

Yeah.

And I remember watching a Tina Fey interview where she says the greatest thing she learned from Second City was that you bomb regularly at improv because it's improv and you realize that you're okay in the end. You didn't die right. You're okay. And that's a valuable thing to learn, especially if you work at snl, because every week feels like the most important week of your life. And if things don't go your way, it feels fatal. And you just have to build some mechanism to cope with the fact that it's fine, that it's okay, that it's things didn't go your way and that's fine. But you will rise above and figure it out the next time. And that's what I love about the show, is that there are more chances of bad as long as you want to take them.

Right. It's like that didn't work. Let's do something else tomorrow. Exactly. Live to improv another day.

Exactly.

So while this is all going on and you're kind of finding yourself with performance, you have this conflict at home. Right. Where you're starting to understand who you are.

Yes.

And that's gonna be a difficult thing for your parents to know and to understand someday. How did you work through that as a teenager?

I didn't really get to work through it. I think I probably wasn't brave enough back then to express that or to package it in a way that they can understand because it felt completely foreign to them and it was completely foreign to them. I came out, quote, unquote, in the sense that my parents just sort of stumbled upon something and they were like, oh, we didn't realize this is what we were dealing with. Where we come from, this doesn't happen. That was sort of their concept of it. And so I give them a lot of grace for that because they just had no context for it. And so we went to conversion therapy. And part of the ultimatum was, if you take. If you go to therapy, then you can go to school at NYU where your sister is. Those poor people did not realize that that's one of the gayest schools in the country. But the ultimatum was either you take conversion therapy and you go to nyu, or you don't and you stay and stay and you live with us and you go to school in Denver. And that would have been a great outcome as well. I just knew, like, that thing about New York is that I just knew I had to live there. And so I kind of played along and I kind of just humored them and myself into seeing what it was and not knowing that it was ultimately very painful and detrimental. And there was a lot of healing that happened after that. But identity is this really fickle thing. Like, you know, it's not something that you arrive at until much later in life, I think, like, I think I didn't really get a grasp on who I was until, like, two years ago.

Come on.

Truly, I think, like, working on Wicked and just doing the back and forth between Wicked and snl, not to jump ahead, but that was something that, like, flattened Me psychologically, because I was so burnt out that I had to really come to grips with who I was and I had to face myself. And I feel like that's like a beautiful human journey that we get to go on if we're lucky. I'm getting so deep with you.

No, it's great. No, it's such a beautiful way to put it. But I think people, you seem so. I don't know if self assured is the right word, but you carry yourself so well that I think people will be surprised to hear you say you're still working through it in some ways. But I guess we all are, aren't we?

I think so. I think, like, it's still. This is what my therapist says is that identity is this, like, cobbled together thing at any given moment. But as you sort of move through life like it goes through the kiln, I'm mixing up my metaphors. You know, you kind of go through this crucible where it sort of starts to firm up.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

So.

And how did that play out at nyu? So you finally. You check the box. Okay. Mom, Dad, I did that crazy thing you asked me to do, going to meet my sister at nyu. Was it everything you hoped it would be in New York City?

It was. Oh, my gosh. I loved moving here. I still love it here. And I think I'm gonna go through my cycles, maybe, like. But I just remember moving here, living in the East Village, feeling like I was in Rent and just so, so blown away by the reality of my life now, which was that I was a New York City resident. And I remember I was living off campus, I was living with my sister, wasn't in the dorms. And so I was really banking on making it into the improv group at nyu because I was like, this is my only social channel. This is the only way I'm gonna, like, really meet people is if I work on this. Work on this improv group. I remember I got the call that I was in while I was watching the SNL Cold Open, where Tina Fey was Sarah Palin for the first time.

[Shopify Voice]

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[Bowen Yang]

Like, it all just felt so cosmic. And then, yeah, just did that. Graduated nyu, stuck around in the city, pulled out of my med school applications, decided, I'm gonna go for this comedy thing. Took classes at ucb, did sketch comedy throughout the city, produced my own shows in Brooklyn, Met so many people through all of these experiences, built community. That's the thing that I think that I can't put a price tag on is that I met people that I still work with today. And fast forward and here we are.

But everything you just laid out in about 20 seconds took 10 years, right from the fall of 2008 till you get the writer's job on SNL. But an important stop a couple years before that with the podcast Las Culturistas with Nat, the wonderful Nat that established you and kind of gave you a thing right before you even got to snl. Usually it works backwards.

Right.

Okay. You're well known now. Get a podcast.

Yeah.

You sort of flipped it the other way.

That's right.

Did that feel like a breakthrough moment when that started to become sort of a thing, the podcast?

Definitely, definitely. It was the first time where it felt like Matt and I had our stamp on something that other people wanted to join in on. Because all you're doing pounding the pavement in New York, especially as a comedian coming up, is you're begging people to come watch you. And it felt like for the first time we had built something. And they came and they did come. And I feel like that was just this cosmic alignment of all these things. Like, that was never the plan. We never expected it to take off. But yeah, we're dinosaurs in podcasting. Like, we're nine years in. That's a long time.

Yeah.

But I think we've kept it going because it's pretty low concept. It's just two people hanging out. We get guests on every now and then.

Pretty good ones.

Good ones. We've really lucked out with our guests. And Matt is such a great interviewer. I've learned a lot from him in terms of asking questions. We're no Willie Geist, but we're, we're, we're, we're learning.

I don't know, it's pretty popular. You're doing pretty well.

It's fun. But yeah, that was, that was a thing too, where going into snl, like, it felt like we had this community building thing around the podcast. We would do shows where we had 50 comedians on and we would tour it. We toured it one year with, you know, we would book 30 comedians from each city from like Philly, Austin, Dallas, Louisiana, Chicago, like Toronto, Vancouver. And we got to meet people in those cities in a very fast tracked way where we just kind of understood the landscape in a very unique way too.

Yeah. And I mean, we should point out that Matt went to school. You guys went to school together at nyu, and Matt Rogers and went to school together. So I mentioned you get the job as a writer in 2018.

Yep.

And then the next year they make you a part of the cast.

Yeah.

What was that jump? Was that an audition again? Was that Lauren saying, I think you're ready now, or how did that play out?

The journey is so interesting, and I would not have changed it for the world. It was over two years, two summers. It was four auditions. So my manager at the time in 2017 said, SNL is looking for new people. If you want to send in a tape of five minutes of characters and impressions. And I was like, they're never going to hire an effeminate Asian man. I am just going to have fun and do this for me. No one's going to see this. Somehow it slipped through the cracks and it made it through each stage gate. And then I did the showcase live and then got invited to do the screen test, where I was basically doing that tape but doing it live. Then they ask you a week later to come back in with five minutes of new material. And at that point you're like, I just gave you my greatest hits. Like, I gotta go back to the drawing board. And that was the second round of auditions. Then they put me on a holding deal for a year. Then I auditioned again in March of 2018. They weren't gonna hire anyone new until the summer. I go back in August of 2018. Then I fly to LA to meet with Lorne because he was producing the Emmys that year. We have a great conversation, and he says, I think you should start off writing. And there was no, like, plan to put me on the cast, but I think that was his, like, vetting process for me, because he ended up telling me when he gave me the call that I was moving to cast was that he said, I knew, and I know that you will have a special kind of scrutiny, that people will look at you in a very specific way because of who you are. And he needed to make sure you knew how the sausage was made, that you knew how things worked here so that I could set you up for success. And I think that's part of his vision. Like, that's the thing about Lorne Michaels that no one can really tap into, because he's seen it all. He's seen every kind of showbiz development in, like, an individual life and in the collective sense. Like, he knows what this is, and I really appreciate that.

It sounds like the kind of thing that might have been disappointing in the moment. Oh, I wanted to be on the cast, but now it sounds wise in hindsight.

Oh, yeah. And I still. I'm so, so, so grateful that I had that writing experience is that, you know, you sweat bullets sitting next to Lorne Michaels at dress rehearsal under the bleachers as he, like, kind of picks your sketch apart in real time. That is something that, like, gives you the thickest skin within an instant. Like, you can really take any sling and arrow that comes your way, whether it's from people internally or if it's from the audience. Like, you just let it slip like water off a duck's back. Like, I really, I think I've developed a pretty good sense of like. Well, like, we did our best, you know, and if people didn't like it, then that's too bad and we'll just try again. Like, that is the thing that SNL builds into you in a way that I'm really, really grateful for that I don't think I could have gotten anywhere else.

You kind of have to. Right? You can't die with every sketch. Right. You just gotta keep moving.

Yep.

[Willie Geist]

Stick around for more of my conversation with Bo and Yang. Right after a quick break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

So you are in the first sketch of your first season, the Open, the cold Open.

Right.

Playing Kim Jong Un.

Yes.

As a kid who grew up watching SNL and loving the show, what is that countdown? Like, 30 seconds and you're about to be on Saturday Night Live. Do you remember?

I do. I do. What I remember from that was feeling my feet, was just grounding myself, because I think what I developed from all those times auditioning, where you're being held in a dressing room for hours in your head, running your audition over and over again, was what I learned was just the basics of meditation. I was just like, I need to be very present with this. I need to focus on one thing, and I need to really just not let my thoughts spiral out of control. And that's another thing about that long vetting process is that I just learned the pace of things at that show, and I learned that you just have to hold onto yourself really tight. I just remember in that first countdown, like, being in this ridiculous dictator get up to just, like, feel the clothes on my body, feel the weight of myself on the studio floor, knowing that it was this big swing. And what a wild first shot for me as a cast member to be Kim Jong Un. But, yeah, that was a really special moment.

Is there a phone call home that night or the next morning?

There was. My parents were in the audience, I think.

Oh, they were there.

They were there. And so that was nice, too.

That's great.

Just kind of sharing the space with them for a pretty unbelievable moment. A moment that no one had any expectation of was wild.

And saying, see, it was all worth it.

I told you.

I told you. Someday. Someday.

I mean, yeah, but, like, if one thing had gone differently, it's just I understand how delicate things are now. How, like, circumstances so fragile, like, if I had moved back home or if I didn't come to school in New York or if I didn't say, sure, why not? I'll put together a tape for snl. Like, it just would have. Things would have ended up so differently.

I know I'm the one millionth person to ask you this, but I have to ask you about the iceberg.

Yes.

Just because it does feel like a lot of us were like, oh, he's good, he's funny. That felt like the breakthrough moment where it was totally undeniable because it was the performance, the writing, the whole thing.

Ridiculous.

Was so brilliantly ridiculous. Did you feel that impact after that sketch, like, oh, something has changed here.

Yes. I knew something was different about that sketch because while the show was still on air, while I was getting out of the makeup, I check my phone and Will Ferrell emails me, and he goes, that was amazing. You need to do that every week. And I was like, will Ferrell, you know how this show works. That's not possible. That's not something they do here. But that felt like just the signal that this was. This was. This was very, very, very cherished for me. And. Yeah. And I think even the days after my manager called and she was like, so Sandra Bullock wants you to be in this movie called the Lost City with her. Do you have time to fly down to the Dominican Republic to do five lines? And I was like, sure. But I was like, I think she had seen that. I was like, all of a sudden, these doors were opening. And I completely agree that that was this inflection for me and Anna Dresden, who wrote it with me. I'm very grateful for Kate Rusk, who designed the headpiece and the costume. That is also my favorite example of just the convocation of different talents that come together. When making a moment like that is just. It takes a village. And Lorne understands that, is that it's by committee and by collaboration. These things happen in this magical way.

And also those departments up for anything. I need to be the Titanic iceberg. Got it. We'll get to work. Yep, yep. Whatever you throw at them, they're like, okay.

They're amazing. It doesn't really work like that in a lot of places.

Yeah.

And just the flexibility, the mobility, the experience is something that you just don't get anymore. Yeah.

We were talking a minute ago about SNL50 and how special that night was. I felt lucky just to be on the red carpet talking to you guys and to watch some of the show. What was it like for you to think, wow, here I am at this cultural moment 50 years later.

Yeah.

And I'm in the cast on the show and looking out into the crowd and seeing so many of your heroes.

I mean, it was something that I'll never forget. I journaled extensively about it because I didn't want to forget it, because I really wanted to remember this feeling I had, which was awe. Like, true awe. Meeting people who had completely different experiences from me, still come to the show and still be grateful, still have, like, none of the. None of the anxiety that does cling on to you, that does stay with you for better or worse, like, have that all kind of Melt away. Everyone was just so happy to be there. And it gave me this, like, four dimensional tapestry on what life, just life is. I was gonna say like life after the show or life during the show is. Cause everyone was sharing experiences about like. Oh, I mean, yeah, that's where Farley would hit his head. Or that's where I would, you know, have my little panicked moments, like in between sketches. Like things that are universal, that have lasted through time in the decades. But meanwhile, I just look at that whole week and just think that's like the human experience there in a nutshell. It's like people go through that place and then they come out and then they have kids and they have families and they remain friends with people, or they mourn the loss of others. And every emotion gets sort of braided into that one moment. And I can't believe I got to be a part of it.

What was funny to watch for me interviewing so many people was before we would start, even for Will Ferrell or Amy Poehler, they had sketches. So there was a little bit of like, you know, still get a little butterfly, maybe a little rewrite in their head while they're going through it. Like it was still there. You know, they've been gone all these years. But like, as you said, it doesn't really ever actually leave you. Right.

That feeling, in a way that is terrifying and also so beautiful.

Right, right. Thrilling. Exactly.

Thrilling.

We're gonna go visit the Wicked theater in just a moment. The Gershwin.

Yep.

I'm not surprised how that movie took off just because people love the story, they love the musical, they love all you guys who are in the cast. What was it like to be at the middle of this Wicked phenomenon as it really took off?

I mean, I cannot believe that it culminated in me wearing my costume at the Oscars. That is something. Just to speak for myself, I know I'm not the main character of the movie, but I cannot believe that, like, I got to have this, like, beginning, middle and end, and it's not even over. There's another movie coming out, everybody. Yes, to be clear. Oh, my goodness. But that is something that I could have never expected. And that is something that also was born out of Lorne and Mark Platt and Jon M. Chu and everyone involved and everyone at Universal just making it work and making it work for me in a way that meant everything. I mean, we're about to go to the Gershwin. The same day that I went to the Gershwin when I was 14 years old, coming to New York City for the first time. We couldn't get tickets to the show. It felt so far away that, like, all I wanted to do was just push my face up against the glass of the Gershwin, just to feel, like a tactility, a contact with this. This musical that I loved. And then we went down the street to 30 Rock to take the studio tour with A Page. Then we sat in the bleachers at snl.

That's wild, by the way.

Wild.

Wicked and SNL on the same day. And now.

And now. And I remember watching Wicked for the first time. There was an opportunity to see it with the people at snl. I think it was the week that Ari Yana Grande was hosting, and I wasn't gonna do it. I was like, no, I want to watch something that I'm in by myself, usually just so I can, like, have my vain spin out thoughts. But I was like, wait a minute. The last time these two things intersected was 20 years ago on my first trip to New York City when I did the tour, and I went to the Gershwin. I need to have this bookend just one last time. And I went, and it was so nice. And Sarah Sherman was in tears. I mean, which is not an unusual occurrence, but she was crying. And I can't believe I got to share that sort of intersection once again. I can't believe I got to be part of these two things that I think meant so much to me and mean a lot to other people.

And you touched on this a minute ago, but I didn't fully appreciate till I was reading what you did just to get that movie made, which is shuttling across the Atlantic between New York and London. And it wasn't necessarily an easy time for you, although the product is beautiful and it's been thrilling for you. But it was. It was hard.

Yeah, right. And that was the thing that Lorne warned me about. He was like, you're gonna travel a lot, and you're not gonna be. You're not gonna be like, the principal on this cast. And that's not. And you're valued here. And it's gonna be different going back and forth between these two very different experiences where I got to. You know, you get to call the shots at snl in a way. Creatively, it's very bottom up instead of top down. Like, it all starts with your idea as a cast member or writer, whereas on a huge movie like Wicked, you are purely in service of the project in this beautiful way. And it's an amazing project. And so those are two very different modalities. And I, in my hubris, was like, yeah, yeah, Lauren, whatever. I got this. I have my. You know, I have all my. I have all my medications at the ready. Nothing could have. Nothing could prepare anyone for that, truly. There's just something. Until we invent teleportation, we need to. We need to. By the way, it's time. It's time.

We've been talking about it forever.

Let's do it. I know.

Come on.

Come on. I'm gonna do it. But, yeah, there was just. It catches up to you.

Yeah.

And it got me. But I think it also got me to this place where I was really having to confront myself because I wasn't sure what I was bringing to either thing. At a certain point, I was like, who. Who am I? Why am I in these things? Am I worthwhile in these things? Like, am I just a piece of furniture? In either setting, it really got me to figure out how I value myself and how other people might value me. And turned out that both of those. The answer to both of those questions was a lot. I value myself a lot. Other people value me in a way that I really appreciate. And I'm very, very glad I got through that, like, Ozzie experience. Felt like I was going to Oz myself, coming back and just having an appreciated sense of, like, where I was and what I had.

How have you dealt Bowen, with the fame side of this? Because, you know, even in the early years of snl, it's New York. People just give you a wave. You can walk down the street. To me, the wicked of it all, and I'm talking about around the world changes all of that.

Yes.

How are you coping with that part of it?

I think I have gotten the most incremental sort of, like, arc with this. Like, I have a podcast that a niche audience in Brooklyn might listen to. I'm get some hellos and some waves at, like, your dingy bars here and there. Great. Oh, my goodness. How fun. How fancy. And then getting SNL was another step up, or just writing on SNL made me kind of known to, like, a broader comedy community that keeps track of these things. And then getting on the cast was another expansion. It just feels like concentric circles. I feel like I have been so lucky in that way where I haven't gotten too overwhelmed with it, you know? Like, also, my life is pretty much the same as it was 10 years ago. I can, like, walk to the grocery store and buy a baguette for myself. The entire baguette for myself.

Yes. I support that, by the way. Thank you 100%. It's also sort of what you make it, isn't it? If you have it in your head, oh, I can't go to the grocery store anymore, then that becomes a thing.

Totally.

Just go to the grocery store.

Exactly. I mean, yeah, it's a. Sometimes, you know, you put the locks on the door yourself.

Yes.

And I don't have too many locks.

Yeah. That's good.

Yeah.

Well, why don't we hop up and go see the Gershwin?

Great.

If you're up for it.

I'm so up for it.

Thanks, Bowen.

[Willie Geist]

After Bowen and I sat down, we went upstairs to the Broadway Blue Room that exhibits all kinds of memorabilia from across Broadway, including a key piece from Wicked that figures into his role in the movie.

[Bowen Yang]

Is this like a Planet Hollywood looking for Broadway stuff? Is that.

It feels like it. A familiar hat.

Very familiar. Wow, look at that. There it is. I mean, this is pretty amazing. Do you feel some sort of cosmic energy from this?

I do. I was just telling you, Phantom was my introduction to Broadway in the 80s, so I still feel. Took my kids to see it. It felt the same. You know, there's something about it. It feels like home.

I mean, I. This is gonna sound so nerdy, but I remember seeing Wicked in the West End a few summers ago with my friend Celeste, who's also a writer at snl, and I was like. And they came up as a playwright, and I was like, wow, theater's amazing. And then Celeste goes. I mean, yeah, it's the most immediate sort of art form, in a sense. Like, you're sharing space with the performers in a way that is not. Not unimportant. I know that sounds weird. It's like. It's a very essential part of this form where, like, you are in the same space as the audience. And that's what I. That's what I love about snl, too. It's like you got to play to the audience in the room, and hopefully that means it plays to the audience.

There's also an excitement to theater that you can't replicate, which is like building, building. You come in, the orchestra, music's playing the ticket, you get your playbill, you sit down, you don't know what's about to happen. And then these people just out there, there they are.

Right.

There's a smell to it, like the paint or something. Right. It's all there.

And there's a line at the bathroom. It's wonderful. Everyone's just filing in and out of the urinal. Yes.

People opening twizzlers while you're trying to act on stage. That's always exciting, too.

Spilling their rum and Cokes. I don't know. They think they're on an island or something. No, they're in Broadway.

They have too many sometimes. And they get interactive with the show, too. It's like. This is not. No, we're not doing. We're not taking improv suggestions.

We're not taking improv suggestions.

We're doing Wicked.

We're doing Wicked. Have some respect. I mean, this is amazing.

[Willie Geist]

It's cool.

[Bowen Yang]

It's very cool. My character in the movie is the one who finds the hat.

I know.

And I feel like that's, you know, Ozzie in History would have been very different had he not thought that.

That's right.

So Fanny is an important part of.

The canon that is central. The hat goes right from Linda to Elphaba to Alphabet.

And then that's her. That's her uniform.

Without you, it doesn't happen. There's no movie, no franchise.

Exactly. Wally, do you have an article of clothing that defines you? I feel like you're a watch guy.

Yeah, but not like those crazy expensive watches.

No, it doesn't have to be crazy expensive.

No, I like a watch. This is a Shinola from Detroit, Michigan.

I love a Shinola.

A Shinola is a nice watch. An article of clothing that defines me.

Like I'm glasses. You know what I mean?

Right. I don't think I do, which makes me sad. And now I feel like I need one.

No, I don't think you do.

I mean, a blue jean. I wear a jean a lot, but that's boring. Sneakers, sometimes. Not these per se, but, like, out in the world. A little more interesting.

I've seen Willie Geist in, like. I've seen Willie Geist in a nice linen suit.

Oh, right.

And I feel like that is your. That's your power.

Okay, that's good.

Yeah.

Okay. Power fit for the summer. And then we do a little black tie for SNL50. We can go in all different directions.

Clean up nicely. He cleans up very nicely. Will. You guys.

Very generous.

Anyway, this is cool.

Great. Planet Hollywood.

It is.

It is.

[Willie Geist]

After we knocked around and looked at all that memorabilia, we went down the street to the Gershwin Theater, where they're still putting on Wicked every night. It is a place that is so special to Bow and Yang. He loved the idea of Wicked. When his family came there when he was 14 to see new York City, he said they couldn't get tickets. They didn't know how to get them so they never went. So he just literally went and pressed his face against the glass to get as close to Wicked as he could. And now, by God, he's in the Wicked movies.

[Bowen Yang]

So this is the theater where you came when you were 14 with your parents.

Yes.

And pushed your face against the glass.

My parents parked their Toyota Sienna right down there, and I ran out of the car with my dad. We only had, I would say, 45 seconds for me to, like, make contact with the glass, but I just wanted to see the lobby. How wholesome and pathetic is that? Pretty wholesome and pathetic.

And did you feel like that was enough for me? I'll be back someday.

Or I think I did say to myself, I'll be back someday with Willie Geist.

And yet was. Still can't get in.

I still can't get in. Darn it. I mean, for old time's sake. Should we just touch it? Yeah, I think we should just touch the glass. But it literally was, like, right here. Probably, like, a whole foot shorter. And just, like, just this.

Just to feel it.

Just to feel it. And it's so ridiculous.

Like, you're in the biggest movie in the world. It's wicked.

It's you. It's wild. Like, it just. This felt so again, far away. And all that mattered was that I was close to it for just, like, a moment, you know? And I remember doing the movies, and all the people who were involved with this Broadway production were like, I mean, the movie is endgame. And then it, like, hit me that, like, oh, this is what. This is. What the vision was all along for all these decades was these people just wanted to make the movie version. And even being, like, a small part of it is huge.

I think you've had a series of pinch me moments, whether it's even getting to New York, but going to nyu, getting on snl, the show you loved growing up, and then ultimately here. You've had a lot of them, haven't you?

Yeah, it's pretty wild. And I don't have, like, occasions. I'm not like, a. I don't get too wrapped up in, like, my own mythology or anything or my lore. But, like, being here with you is. I think it gives it the right occasion to, like, reflect on it and think, wow, that's pretty amazing. So thank you for bringing me here.

Let's touch it again.

Let's touch it again. It's perfect.

Thank you, Bowen. So good to see you. You too. So much fun. Thank you.

Let's get you back to Westchester. Get this man back. Get this man back home.

Let's get you to 30 Rock.

[Willie Geist]

My big thanks again to Bowen for a great conversation.

[Bowen Yang]

You can see his new movie, the.

[Willie Geist]

Wedding banquet in theaters April 18th. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of my conversation with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you.

[Bowen Yang]

Never miss an episode.

[Willie Geist]

And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your very own eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Podcast.

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At Capella University, you can learn at your own pace with our flexpath learning format. Take one or two courses at a time and complete as many as you can in a 12 week billing session. With Flexpath, you can even finish the bachelor's degree you started in 22 months for $20,000. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn [e-mail]. fastest 25% of students cost varies by pace, transfer credits and other factors. Fees apply.