← Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
EMMY NOMINEE: Bryan Cranston on “Breaking Bad” and the Complex Characters He’s Drawn To (December 2020)
00:31:00
A four-time Emmy winner for his legendary role as Walter White in "Breaking Bad," Bryan Cranston’s made a massive mark on Hollywood. In this conversation from December 2020, Cranston talks to Willie Geist about starring in Showtime’s "Your Honor" and reuniting with Aaron Paul to launch Dos Hombres Mezcal. He also reflects on the enduring legacy of "Breaking Bad" and why he’s often drawn to morally complex characters.
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Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along with me today. Got a good one dialed up for you with Emmy and Tony winner and all around great guy, Bryan Cranston. Bryan, of course, who you know for his iconic role as Walter White on Breaking Bad is now starring in a new Showtime series called you'd Honor. And it's got a little Breaking Bad to it. It's a guy who is a respected judge in New Orleans whose son, his teenage son is involved in a hit and run accident, a fatal hit and run accident. And then we go down this path of the COVID up. He is a judge trying to protect his own son. Amazing show. You guys are going to really love it. He's home in la. Bryan Cranston. This is another one of these zoom interviews that we've been doing. I'm sitting in my house. He's, he's sitting in his house. You turn on your computer, you flip open your MacBook and bang, there's Cranston filling up the screen. We talk about your Honor, we talk about Breaking Bad, and we talk about his Covid diagnosis back in March. I don't think we knew about it publicly maybe until July when he announced it on Instagram, but he had it pretty bad while they were shooting, you, Honor, actually down in New Orleans, he was diagnosed, he and his wife Robin, they shut down immediately production on the show for seven months and then they had to come back and finished the show in October and Wrapped just around Thanksgiving time, in time to get this series off and launched. So he talks about that. He talks about competing in a darkly funny way with Tom Hanks, his good friend, for who had the stronger antibodies. He'll explain that one for you. Just such a good guy with such an interesting career, such perspective, and so much to say I hope you enjoy. Right now on the Sunday sit down podcast, my conversation with Bryan Cranston. Brian, it's good to see you, man. How are you?
- [02:54]
A
I'm doing really well, thank you. Willie, Good to see you.
- [02:57]
B
It's good to see you, too. There's been a lot going on since I've talked to you last. You won a Tony for network. Maybe most importantly, your Dodgers won the World Series. And now you're a big tequila guy. So there's a lot happening for you.
- [03:13]
A
Just a minor crisis. It's not tequila.
- [03:16]
B
Mezcal. Yes. Forgive me. Yeah.
- [03:18]
A
Most people don't realize it, but a tequila is a mezcal. But a mezcal is not a tequila.
- [03:25]
B
I did not realize that.
- [03:27]
A
The conundrum. Yeah. Dos hombres, as we've been in business, Aaron, Paul and I, with this beautiful juice for almost a year and a half, and we're doing exceptionally well. And it's so much fun. We were just the right amount of ignorant going into it and. And falling down and getting up. And we're just like two excited kids learning as much as we can about the history of Mezcal. And it's been a fun ride so far. It's doing really well.
- [04:00]
B
It seems to be a trend. Of course, Clooney had his tequila. Ryan Reynolds had his gin. So where did this idea come from for you guys?
- [04:08]
A
Aaron and I, about three years after the end of Breaking Bad's production, we were in a sushi restaurant in New York City and we were lamenting about the fact that we just don't get a chance to see each other that much anymore because our careers are going off in different directions. And we thought, no, we're not going to be able to work together for a while. And then Aaron said, what about the mezcal business? And I went, are you out of your mind? What do we know about that? And we soon learned we didn't know that much, but we love the taste of it. We. I became a huge fan of it. He was already a fan. We went down to Oaxaca with the quest of finding something that appealed to both of our differing palettes. And if we found it, we would then go into it. But if we didn't find something that we loved. We just wouldn't do it. But we found Dos Hombres and we're real excited about it.
- [05:07]
B
It's very cool. I can't wait to try it. I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, but I'm gonna also. I'll send you my review later. How about that?
- [05:14]
A
I'll send you a bottle.
- [05:15]
B
Okay, great. That'd be great. So we're talking about all the good things that have happened recently for you, but you also announced in July that you had had Covid early in this long run that we've been on, that's felt like years, but it's been about eight or nine months. What was that experience like for you?
- [05:33]
A
Well, my wife and I got it early on, first week in March or second week, actually, and we weren't quite familiar with what the toll is going to be or what to expect. And we were, as it turned out, very lucky. We had about three days of just body aches, but nothing to keep you in bed. And I had a half a day of a fever of 99, and then that went away. And then I was just exhausted for a week. But the lasting effect that both of us have had is the loss of taste and smell. So our. I don't know, it's weird because it's about 75% has come back.
- [06:18]
B
Wow.
- [06:18]
A
I would say to give you an idea, I walk into a kitchen, if she's brewing coffee, I can't smell it, but I open the bag of beans and I put my nose in it and then I can smell it. So it. And actually, doctors have said that's how you retrain your brain to connect with the. With. With the sensory of smell. And so hopefully that'll continue working. And, you know, I go for a walk and I'll stick my nose in roses and.
- [06:43]
B
Wow.
- [06:43]
A
Yeah. But I guess, you know, in the scheme of things, if that's what we have to deal with, then, you know, a lot of people are suffering to a much greater degree or passing. And this has been a scourge on our society. And hopefully now we're understanding after these last spikes and Thanksgiving spike and all these, that we just have to wear masks. It's not really a sacrifice. It's an inconvenience.
- [07:16]
B
Yeah. I mean, did you have any idea at the time what it was? I mean, you're talking first, second week of March. This is very early on in this, and we were all just learning about it. Did you say to yourself, boy, this.
- [07:26]
A
Could be Covid well, we have a doctor who lives across the street from us, and Robin talked to him, and he said, well, we have the COVID test, and why don't you come get this is. Before there was a demand on them, they had. And so she got a test and tested positive. And then I just assumed I had it. And sure enough, a few days after that, I tested, because I was about to go back and shoot some more in New Orleans for your honor. And we wanted to make sure that I wasn't carrying anything there. So sure enough, I did have it. And then they shut things down right away, and there we were, seven months later. We go back to New Orleans to finish the shooting of the show. And, you know, under the new protocols and everything, we're rehearsing with shields and masks and everything, it's. It's difficult. And there's no social aspect to it. You know, one of the things that actors love about the business is that it's very social.
- [08:32]
B
Yeah.
- [08:34]
A
You know, intimate. And you go out to dinner at night and talk about the character and talk about a scene and hash it through. And there was none of that. We'd go to work and go home, go to work and go home. And it was kind of brutal.
- [08:47]
B
Well, I'm glad you're feeling better. And I know you've said publicly because it was around the same time that you and your buddy Tom Hanks sort of talked to each other through it a little bit, because you were some of the earliest, most public people to have it. What did he tell you about it? Did you have a similar experience?
- [09:02]
A
Yeah, as it turned out, we were talking to Tom and Rita, and they had it just about the same time, maybe a little earlier than we did, and it was brand new. And after a while, he said he's donating his plasma at UCLA Medical center here in Los Angeles. And I thought, oh, that's good. And I got the name of the. His contact. So I called and started donating plasma as well. And, you know, after a while, the strength of your antibodies in the plasma weakens. And, you know, not that it's a competition or anything, but I said, you know, how many times was Toms able to donate plasma from his antibodies? They said, he came in a couple of times. I said, only two.
- [09:51]
B
I did four.
- [09:52]
A
But, you know, it's not a competition. Like I said, I just have stronger antibodies. That's the way it is.
- [10:01]
B
Competing even over plasma. You can't turn it off, can you?
- [10:05]
A
Not a competition. Like I said, not a competition. I just have stronger antibodies. That's all.
- [10:11]
B
It's a matter of science. He can't argue with that.
- [10:13]
A
It's just science.
- [10:15]
B
Well, I'm so glad you're feeling better. That's extraordinary about the sense of smell, too. I think a lot of people are experiencing that. So you mentioned the big disruption with Your honor. I told you, I just got through the first episode, and it is. I don't think riveting is strong enough a word, but, boy, it grabs you right out of the box. I guess we don't want to give away too much for people watching and listening who are going to make their way through the series, but just set up a little bit of the backstory on this series.
- [10:43]
A
Well, what really got me was the concept of it. As a parent, the idea of addressing your number one responsibility to keep your children safe is addressed in this first episode where my son, who makes a grave mistake of leaving the scene of an accident, whether or not he was responsible for. And there was a boy who was hit on a motorcycle who was killed, and he's. He made the mistake of leaving. I come home and I talk to him, and he tells me what happened. He confesses tearfully, and I tell him he needs to do the right thing and be responsible and accountable for his actions. So we're going to turn you in to the police department and put you into the judicial system. It has to happen is the right thing to do. So I take him to the police station. I tell him to wait in the car. Let me set this up, and then I'll come get you. While I'm in the police station, I notice there's a grieving couple. And I find out that this couple are the parents of the boy who was killed that morning in the accident. I don't know who she is, but I recognize him to be a devastatingly dangerous mob boss. And at that moment, I realized, that man is going to kill my son. He finds out, there's no question in my mind, he is going to go find my son and kill him. So I impulsively make a decision. I can't do that. I turn around, back out. My son thinks, oh, it's time to go. He gets out of the car. I say, get back in the car. We're leaving. He goes, no, dad, you're right. We have to get back in the car. We're going now. What complicates this is that my character, Michael Desiado, is also a superior court judge. His job is to determine right from wrong and, you know, display judgment on people. And here, now, he is doing the wrong thing, but perhaps for the right reason.
- [12:54]
B
Yeah. We establish early on that the judge is a decent and ethical man by, you know, a speech he gives in the courtroom. But then when it comes home to his own family, you see it flip exactly in that moment where he sees Walker, the mob guy, marches back out to that car and everything changes about him. And you realize that's what the story hinges almost on, that moment.
- [13:15]
A
It does. And of course, it's a slippery slope when you put yourself in a position to do something that is not who you are. And I, all of a sudden, have to become a criminal myself to destroy evidence, to create alibis, to debunk testimony, to manipulate the system. So I protect my son. And it's a mess. It's an exciting mess.
- [13:43]
B
I mean, I'm watching that first episode going, how are they going to get out of this? There's just so much laying around to tie them to this. So I can't wait to travel through this. What was it about this character in particular? Because I'm sure you get a million scripts across your desk all the time. What was it about this that made you stop and say, okay, yes, I'm going to take a year of my life and commit it to this?
- [14:05]
A
Well, to me, it's always the story itself. Does the story resonate? Is it important? Does it stimulate me intellectually? Does it challenge me emotionally or ethically? Does it touch my heart? Is it important socially? So all these things, if. If it starts to resonate and sit with me. It's not unlike when you read a good novel and you can't wait to act to it. Well, I read a script, it comes in, I set it aside, and a good sign for me is if I look at it again, I bring it out and I keep going back to it because it made an impression. And I use that as my intuition to say this seems like the right thing to do. Now, on a personal level, I guess I'm attracted to characters that are damaged somewhat. I don't know. But characters who are damaged, who are also simultaneously trying to do the right thing within the realm of doing the wrong thing. And I think that's what allows an audience to invest in a character like that and root for them or sympathize with them to some degree. It makes it rich, though, the storytelling.
- [15:26]
B
Yeah. It seems to me that's what the tug of this story is, which is, he's doing the wrong thing. We can agree on that. But, boy, do I get why he's doing it. You know, I've got two kids, and I go, what would I do? Right there in that moment in the police station, what would I do? And I think the answer is probably to do what your character does.
- [15:42]
A
Yeah. You make that impulsive decision to save the lives of your children, not having the luxury of knowing, okay, then what's the ripple effect? What's the ramifications down the line? You can't possibly know that at that time. You just have to do the best you can. That's why it felt very animalistic to me, that when we see animals in the wild protecting their cubs, you get it. And that's what it is. It's just raw animal reaction to protecting your own.
- [16:17]
B
And raw animal reaction on the other side. The victim's family, too. We know what's coming there, that they're gonna. They're out for blood for their loss as well. And they know how to get it.
- [16:26]
A
I know it's not good. I can say that there's a lot of twists and turns and turmoil in there, but it's a very rewarding series. You're glad that you're not living that hypothetical when you're watching it.
- [16:41]
B
And.
- [16:43]
A
But. And a really shocking ending to it.
- [16:47]
B
You're a good pitch man. I cannot wait to sit down and just plow through this. What about New Orleans? As a backdrop, the Ninth Ward provides this contrast of where the judge lives and the mob family lives in the Ninth Ward. It seems to me that New Orleans, whatever, the show, is just a beautiful backdrop for any show.
- [17:05]
A
It really is. It's one of our more cultured, beautiful cities, I think, in the country. It has steeped in, in different cultures. Cajun and Creole French influence and large African American population. And the food is fantastic, and the music, it just makes you move. And cocktails. And they celebrate. They celebrate and embrace that. One of the things that's really interesting is. Is during funeral processions, as we have in the show coming up, there's a funeral that you will see that is followed by what they call a second line. And a second line is like an ad hoc group of musicians who follow the casket and play them off into the afterworld in a sort of sad celebration of that person's life. And it's a very true tradition to the New Orleans world. And I'm glad we shot there. Great people down there and great crews to work with. And New Orleans itself became part of a character of the show.
- [18:22]
B
Yeah. There's no other city like it. That's for sure. Was it strange? I mean, of course it was strange, but was it strange to hit the pause button on the series because of COVID take all that time away and then have to step back into it? How do you do that exactly, as an actor?
- [18:38]
A
Well, we're used to shooting out of sequence anyway. As an actor, you might start a film with a scene that's three quarters of the way through the story, and then you go back and you do one that's a third of the way through, then do the end, then go back and do the beginning. So you have to just kind of get the puzzle straight in your head. But this was unlike anything I've ever experienced. We did. It was an eight month shoot to do all ten episodes of your Honor. And we had finished about six months, and we had two, two to go when we got down. And I thought, well, maybe a month. We'll come back in a month. And that became two months. And as you know, three months and four months. And it turned out to be seven months of a forced hiatus coming back. And Showtime executives, they imposed these restrictions and protocols on us. And you know what? Rightfully so. We needed the cast and the crew and everybody who worked with us and around us to feel that they were safe and healthy. And we got through because of those protocols. Keeping socially distanced, Every crew member was wearing a mask. And actors were in shields, not masks that would put lines on our faces. We wore shields that clipped around your neck, that go up. And, you know, Willie, I don't know if you noticed, but I'm in my 60s now. I know that I don't look it, but I have been to my fair share of rock concerts in my time, and I am positive that I've lost some hearing in my being. So now everybody wearing shields or masks. I'm constantly saying, I'm sorry, and I'm like, oh, my God, I didn't know how much I relied on reading lips.
- [20:37]
B
Yes, no, that's definitely true. That's definitely true. And who would have. If you'd taken a picture of yourself on that set a year ago with that face mask, you would have said, what on earth is going on? Dropped onto another planet. As I look at the way your sort of projects roll out, do you look at, okay, I'm going to do a something here. I'm going to go to Broadway. I'm going to do network, or I'm going to write my memoir. Now it's time for a series. I want to do a movie. Do you strategize that way is it just what sort of. What satisfies you in a moment? Are you looking for particular things at particular times?
- [21:14]
A
Yeah, I do. I believe that you have to take command of your career if you have the chance and opportunity so that you maintain as much control over as you want. Now, when Breaking Bad finished after six years and very proud of the show, but in some regard, I needed to move away from that character or that people seeing me as that character. So I just imposed a three year moratorium on doing television. I don't know why I came up with three years, but it felt like that was the duration. I needed to just step away from that. So then I went and did some theater. I played Lyndon Johnson. Still playing very damaged characters, but wonderful material. And so I. I did theater and I did a couple films and things like that. And I want to always mix it up between doing fiction or nonfiction. I want to mix it up doing drama or comedies. And whether it's a. You know, I just had a movie come out this year on Disney called the One and Only Ivan, which is a family film, which I love, and it did really well. And so it doesn't matter to me if it's for the family, if it's for adults only, if it's television, if it's a movie, it's on stage. Comedy, drama, it's all about the storytelling. Is the story rich? Will we have a rewarding experience by the time it's over? That's what I look for.
- [22:45]
B
You've got the chance and you sort of touched on this, to do what you want to do. Do you stop on this crazy ride of the last, I don't know, 10 or 15 years even, and say, my gosh, I'm gonna look back at what I've done and how did I end up here and how did I end up in a position where I do get to choose what I want to do?
- [23:03]
A
Well, even your introduction, Willie said, oh, he's won this, this, this and this. I went, oh, wow, who are we talking about? That's kind of impressive. I don't think of those things I work for to win an award. I never have, I never will. I always just keep my head down, use my blue collar background to just work, Just do the work and then do more work. And if someone taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, we'd like to honor you for such and such, then let it be the surprise that it should be. But this idea of, oh, I'm going to position myself to get a nomination for such and such. I just don't know how to do that, number one. And even if I did, I don't know that I would want to do that. I have a system of how I like to select my projects, and I keep to that. And it's really based on story, the value of the story and the character. Can I do something with that character?
- [24:09]
B
You don't go into it for the awards, Brian, but I know you're a guy who has gratitude, maybe because of where you came from. You say, wow, I can't believe where I ended up.
- [24:18]
A
Hey, my family split up when I was 11 years old. Our house got foreclosed on. We were kicked out, split up. I went to live with my grandparents for a year. And I mean, it was confusing. At that time, you're really aware of what you think life is like, and then all of a sudden the rug is pulled out from under you. And fortunately, I was never afraid of hard work, so just work. And I didn't know any other way to do it, but just continue to work. So that's my motto. That's what I try to tell young actors in high school or college. I can always tell the ones who are really asking a question because they have a burning desire to perform, or if they're thinking of the exterior of it, the traps of what they see. An actor is if one of these kids, any of the kids who ask, hey, what kind of car do you drive? Or so where do you live? And you know, who have you dated? And they're looking at the exterior of this. And I said, I can save you a lot of time. You shouldn't be an actor because you're looking for something that's outside of the work. And conversely, the ones who go, I need to perform, I just. I go, then you need to try. The only failure is if you don't make the attempt. You've got to try. You've got to put everything into it. And the last thing I tell them is that this is a life. This isn't. I'm going to give it two years to see some arbitrary measure of success, or what does that mean? A money amount that that means success, or it's your life, this is what you do. And, you know, and like you, you came to it. Honestly, I've been a fan of your dad's for years and years and years and watching him and always getting a smile out of the work. So it didn't surprise me at all that you followed into journalism like he is and broadcast journalism and I'm happy to see you doing so well.
- [26:31]
B
Thank you. That's nice of you to say. And you're exactly right about that. Which is what he would say to me, maybe not explicitly, but by his example, was just go work, say yes to things, get out on the road, do the job that's in front of you. And the other things, if you're lucky enough, you know, they come and you get opportunities you want. So that's very well said. Yeah.
- [26:50]
A
Let me ask you a question, Billy. When you look at a piece, because I do it myself, but when you look at a piece like this interview or some other, do you look at it and judge yourself? Do you go, well, I did. I kind of got off the subject. Or I need to be a little more forthright.
- [27:07]
B
Probably too harshly. Maybe you're the same way. You know, or even, you know, I do three hours of live television every day on Morning Joe. And if a word is out of place or I didn't say, express something exactly the way I think I should have for a minute, you beat yourself up. And then the good news is you get another chance to do it the next morning so it goes away and you wake up and do it again. But, yeah, definitely, I think that's part of what we do, is being tough on yourself. And in some ways, assuming it's all going to go away tomorrow. So you better bust your ass that day. Right?
- [27:38]
A
Yeah. The world and our business doesn't owe us anything. No, someone can replace us tomorrow.
- [27:44]
B
Boy, is that true. Boy, is that true. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Bryan Cranston right after the break.
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- [29:21]
B
Back to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Bryan Cranston. Before I let you go, you. You mentioned Breaking Bad. Are you surprised at the way it persists as this cultural force? I'm sure people ask you constantly, is there going to be a reunion? Are they going to bring the and if so, what do you think it is about Breaking Bad that has endured the way it has?
- [29:46]
A
I think the story was something that caught people by surprise. It got under their skin. They related to a man who was struggling. They sympathized with him because he was a good guy and just kind of got beaten down by the system. A teacher who is trying to share his excitement and his love of chemistry to apathetic students. And it hurts your heart when you see that. And then he's diagnosed with cancer with two years to live. You just go, oh, this poor bastard. What can I do for him? And then he decides to do what he decided to do because of his chemistry background. And all of a sudden we're testing your morality. Like, oh, I can't really say that we're going still. Oh, I guess I'm okay, you know. And then you find yourself rooting for him. And then you catch yourself going, wait a minute, I'm rooting for him to make crystal methamphetamine. No, that can't be. And so the push and pull, the tug of war is inside of every viewer. And that's what kept it alive. Brilliantly written by Vince Gilligan. And that we were fortunate enough to have it be in the zeitgeist of pop culture was fantastic. I'm glad that we had the beginning, middle and end. It was so much fun to do. It changed my career. And so I owe everything to that experience. It was so memorable. Obviously, it will be the first line of my obituary. When you do life lives, well lived, you're going to say, known for.
- [31:38]
B
I think we're going to be adding your honor after watching some of it. It's damn good. Finally, Dodgers. How excited were you? How big was that for you?
- [31:49]
A
Come on. 32 years. 32 years. Of course, the Houston asterisks stole it from us.
- [31:56]
B
Listen, that's just, I'm a Yankee fan, so I'm with you 100% on that.
- [32:01]
A
Those guys, I can't wait to get back to the, to the baseball field and to just smell the grass and hear the rooting and the booze. Boy, Yankee fans, tough. Some of the greatest fans ever and but boy, they could be brutal. Even on their own players. Yeah.
- [32:23]
B
Oh yeah. Especially on their own players. Well, we're just waiting for the Astros to come back to full stadiums because they sort of got a pass this year, right? There were no fans to boo them.
- [32:32]
A
Absolutely. Had a pass and a slap on the hand. That was nothing.
- [32:37]
B
We'll be waiting for them next year.
- [32:39]
A
We'll be waiting for them.
- [32:42]
B
Brian, thanks so much for the time. Congratulations on the series. It's fantastic. Great to see you.
- [32:47]
A
I appreciate it. Good to see you again.
- [32:49]
B
My big thanks to Brian for a great conversation. His new series, you, Honor, airs Sundays at 10pm on Showtime. And thanks as always to all of you for clicking and listening along again this week. If you want to hear all of my full length conversations with my guest every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.
- [33:24]
A
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