← Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
EMMY NOMINEE: Jason Segel on Working with Harrison Ford in “Shrinking” and His Comedy Career (October 2024)
00:40:20
Nominated for an Emmy for his starring role in "Shrinking," Jason Segel has proven his versatility across dramas and comedies over the last 20 years. In this sitdown from October 2024, Segel opens up to Willie Geist about working alongside Harrison Ford in “Shrinking,” his long run of comedies from "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" to "How I Met Your Mother," and the life-changing advice he received from Judd Apatow.
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- [00:00]
Jason Segel
Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected, and each one more.
- [00:06]
Willie Geist
Expensive and more complicated than the last.
- [00:09]
Jason Segel
It can be pretty stressful.
- [00:11]
Willie Geist
Now imagine Odoo.
- [00:12]
Jason Segel
Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform.
- [00:18]
Willie Geist
Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for.
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Jason Segel
A fraction of the price.
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Willie Geist
Sign up today@odoo.com that's O-O-O.com did you.
- [00:32]
Jason Segel
Know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water. Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold butter. Yep, chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied.
- [01:05]
Willie Geist
Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Very excited to bring you my conversation this week with actor Jason Seagull. He has been in some of the funniest movies of the last 20 years. He got his big break with Freaks and Geeks, a short lived but now cult classic series created by Judd Apatow. It had Jason Seagull, it had Seth Rogan, James Franco, Busy Phillips, all these young actors who went on to do great things, many of them alongside Judd Apatow along the way. For Jason Siegel, that means movies like Knocked up, this is 40 and then creating and writing his own film, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, which was a big hit and of course famously had full frontal nudity. Stay tuned for a great story from Jason in our conversation about his mother seeing that scene for the very first time. He's now starring and has been for this is the second season in the Apple TV series Shrinking his co star Harrison Ford. It's a show he created with the guys who did Ted Lasso, including Brett Goldstein, who was one of the stars, of course, of Ted Lasso. The series is about therapists. Jason plays a therapist who is in the middle of a crisis of his own and he'll explain all that to you. Love hearing too about the moment when he found out that Harrison Ford was actually gonna do the series. They thought that was a pipe dream. When they pitched it to him, he said yes and it's gone on to become one of the best series in all of television. He was nominated. Jason Was for an Emmy award last year for his performance in season one. Now out with season two. You know him also from the Muppets. And of course, playing Marshall on the long running hit CBS sitcom How I Met yout Mother. Has had a fascinating life, a fascinating career, and we talk through it all right now. So just sit back, relax, and enjoy a great conversation with Jason Segel on the Sunday Sit down podcast. Jason, thanks for doing this, man.
- [03:10]
Jason Segel
Oh, it's my pleasure.
- [03:11]
Willie Geist
We were just saying we're in, like, mini chairs shrinking ish therapist session here.
- [03:17]
Jason Segel
Yes. As you acknowledge, we're also giant dudes and the chairs are a little small, but.
- [03:21]
Willie Geist
Yeah, for people who don't know, we're both about six, four.
- [03:23]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [03:23]
Willie Geist
Play a little high school ball.
- [03:25]
Jason Segel
That's right.
- [03:25]
Willie Geist
And we're in the back to school night chair for sure. Here we go. Congratulations on season two of shrinking.
- [03:31]
Jason Segel
Thanks.
- [03:32]
Willie Geist
It's gotta feel good to feel this level of anticipation for it because it means people loved season one so much. So how are you feeling? Like it dropped today. A few hours ago.
- [03:41]
Jason Segel
Yeah, it came out today. It's exciting. We had the strike in between season one and two, so we had a big gap. And I think as excited as the audience is for it to come back, so are we. We had to hold off on filming, but one of the benefits of that was we got to see the show. So we all, you know, in a season one of a show, you don't know the tone yet.
- [04:01]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [04:02]
Jason Segel
You're all sort of guessing and feeling off of each other. I think it's this. I think it's this. And now we've seen it. And so we were able to come in season two just, like, we knew what the bullseye was.
- [04:11]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [04:11]
Jason Segel
We knew how dramatic you could get, how comedic you could get, and, like, what you could paint with. And, man, we're proud of it.
- [04:18]
Willie Geist
When did you know in season one, as those episodes rolled out, that you guys were onto something? Cause as you know very well, you can make something you think is great. And for whatever reason, people don't respond to it the way you thought they would. Was there a moment where you're like, oh, this has broken through. People are enjoying this.
- [04:35]
Jason Segel
I had a hunch that when Harrison Ford said he'd be in it, that it was gonna be good. If I'm totally honest with you, I mean, look, I'm gonna tell you the reality. There's like a part that's right for Harrison Ford. So you're like, who should we cast in this? And we're. Well, we should offer it to Harrison Ford. You do that so that for three days you can tell your friends you have an offer out to Harrison Ford and then you're gonna cast the real guy. And then Harrison Ford said yes. And then there's this like panicked look. Harrison Ford's gonna show up here. We better get the script good. And so I think it was at that moment where the show changed a little bit because Paul, his character was gonna be more of a check in advisor kind of guy. Then all of a su. We had one of the best actors of all time. And so it became this sort of two hander father Sonny dynamic for the first season. I think we could also feel this tone that we were headed towards as a true north was these like James Brooks movies from when I grew up, Broadcast News, Terms of Endearment, where you're laughing through the hardest moments. Cause the show's about grief. I mean, a really terrible thing has happened. My wife has died in a car accident. And we're all trying to get through it. But I think what those movies did really well, what is the truth about life, is that you laugh your way through those moments. It's the only way we get through them. When I see a drama that is heavy on top of heavy, my reaction is, okay, I get it. I know life is hard. But when I see people laughing their way through things, I think, oh, those are my friends. And so I think when we started to feel we were hitting that tone, it felt right.
- [06:22]
Willie Geist
So where do we find for people who haven't started yet, where do we find Jimmy as we embark on season two?
- [06:28]
Jason Segel
Season two, yeah. Yeah. So season one was about getting this guy out of a hole. It was just like, let's get him back to zero. It was like friends performing emotional triage on somebody. And for those who don't know the premise, it's about a therapist who is continuing to practice therapy while he is himself having a nervous breakdown. Which is a great premise. Season two is once you get to zero. What now? Cleaning up the wreckage of the past. The other thing that I think is most compelling about this season, the storyline I relate to most is there was a great movie where there's an avalanche. It's called Force Majeure. There's an avalanche and the father of a family who should protect his family runs away. And then everybody survives the avalanche. And the movie is about the family has to like continue going on knowing that like the thing happened and the father ran away. It's like the ghost in the room, you know, And I think that that that happened here. The worst thing happened. My daughter's mother was killed in a car accident. And as opposed to me stepping up and taking care of her, he ran away. And so how can she ever trust him again? How can she ever say, my dad will be there if I need him? And it's. Repairing that relationship is a big part of season two forgiveness. The other thing is, in a season two of a show, the whole cast gets to shine. You get to have people step up and have these arcs that they didn't necessarily get to have in season one. And I've said it before, but every one of these cast members could be the lead in their own show.
- [08:02]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [08:02]
Jason Segel
I mean, they're so good. And so you get to see. You get to see everybody thrive this year.
- [08:07]
Willie Geist
The best thing I can say on a great show like this is you're happy when every character enters a scene. There's no weak link where you go, okay, this is the part where it dips or whatever. No, it's like everybody's so strong in that group.
- [08:18]
Jason Segel
Yeah. It's a lesson that Bill Lawrence has learned over and over again. And I learned it working with Jud Apatow back when we were making those movies. You write the best script you can. You write a script good enough that if you just shot the script, it would be great. And then you cast actors who are better than the material and you let them kick it up that next notch. And I think that has happened here. We have the best writers in the entire world, and we also have a cast that takes these scenes and says, got it. And then runs with it.
- [08:47]
Willie Geist
Did you relate to anything in your character? Personally, I mean, was there. He's definitely vulnerable. He is empathetic in many ways, despite his faults, like we all have. He's a guy you are rooting for through all this, partly because of the grief he's been through, but also because of how he's trying to put it all back together. Did you see anything in him that you could relate to?
- [09:10]
Jason Segel
Yeah. I think that even though there is, like a literal loss in these characters lives, the death of a family member, I think we all. It came out right after Covid, so there was a sense of grieving collectively, like a car accident took his wife. But for all of us, something, this force of nature came through and took two years of our lives. And all of a sudden, everyone was looking around like, what happened? And there was a sense of powerlessness. And I think a lot of Us tapped into that idea of that man, sometimes life just. Life's on you hard, and you get through it with your friends. The other thing, which is, like, tangential to your question that I was very excited about, is a nervous breakdown isn't pretty. And we also needed the main character, Jimmy, to be likable, to remain likable. And in a stroke of kind of self awareness, I'm like, I'm Muppet Guy. I'm Marshall. On How I Met yout Mother, we've garnered some currency of goodwill. Let's spend it, like, let's push him as far towards unlikable as we can and have faith that people's reaction is gonna be like, oh, my God, I hate him. That their reaction will be, I hope he gets better. So we were able to make Jimmy. We were able to paint a nervous breakdown in grieving pretty dark and still have it be funny and relatable.
- [10:42]
Willie Geist
That's so interesting. I wondered, for you as an actor, if this material part of it was so appealing because it was so counter to other things you've done and been so well known for over the course of your career.
- [10:54]
Jason Segel
Yeah, I just think as I'm getting older, I'm thinking about different stuff. And I. You know, this show, for me, is a little like the end of an M. Night Shyamalan movie where, like, all the parts make sense. All of a sudden, after How I Met yout Mother, I hit this moment personally where I started doing dramas in high school. That's how I got seen. I got seen in a high school play doing the Zoo Story by Edward Albee. And it turned out I was good at comedy. And that's sort of what the first 10 years of my life and career were. But in my head, I thought. But I think I'm good at that other stuff. So I spent consciously, like seven or eight years after How I Met yout Mother ended up trying to just take parts where I got to find out if I was good at that stuff. And I got better and better at it. But it wasn't like, when you're like, watch, I'm gonna do this new stuff. You're ready for Hollywood to be like, oh, we're very excited. And, like, no one cared.
- [11:54]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [11:55]
Jason Segel
You know what I mean? Good for you. Have fun. But then all of a sudden, this show came along, and it required equal parts drama and comedy. And I had built up those skills, and I knew how to do comedy. And all of a sudden, I got to do them both on the same show. Some days, you show up to do a big set comedy piece, and some days you show up to rip your guts out in front of the camera, and that's the most exciting thing.
- [12:20]
Willie Geist
We can cut this out if you don't want to talk about it, because it's a little bit of a spoiler, but in season two, you introduce a new character who's very important to the story. Is that vague enough?
- [12:31]
Jason Segel
Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
- [12:32]
Willie Geist
Do you want to talk about, or should we leave it to the.
- [12:34]
Jason Segel
Yeah, Well, I think it's. I think it. I think it's out. Yeah. Episodes one and two are out. Yes. In the pilot, somebody returns into our lives who has basically is the cause of all of our grief. It's the person who ruined our lives, and he's played by Brett Goldstein, which is just awesome. And. And the journey of season two, our true north. For season two, we always pick a word is forgiveness. And so it's finding the strength to forgive the person you think you need to forgive, but then also looking in the mirror and figuring out what the cause of the destruction really was.
- [13:19]
Willie Geist
You and your daughter certainly working through, trying to find that forgiveness in this season.
- [13:23]
Jason Segel
Yeah, that character, I needed him to be a mirror of Jimmy. And so it's why we picked Brett Goldstein, because we're the same age and he is such a great actor. And I think that there is something really electric about somebody stretching their muscles for the first time in front of an audience. And not that Brett has anything to prove, but he hadn't gotten to show this range. And he's a killer out there for.
- [13:54]
Willie Geist
People watching or listening who don't know the name, but certainly know the face. He was in Ted Lasso, one of the stars of Ted Lasso, among others. He was Roy Kent. Exactly, exactly. And also he is one of the co creators and executive producer along with you on this series. I love the origin story of how this came to be for you, which is you were on one of your famous walks or runs right outside.
- [14:20]
Jason Segel
It's so crazy how life works. Yeah. I was on a long walk in Ojai. This is like, why life isn't fair. Okay. I was on a walk and apparently the producer, one of the producers of this show, saw me on a walk and texted Bill Lawrence, hey, just saw Jason Segel. He looks happy. Let's do a show with him. And here we are.
- [14:47]
Willie Geist
It's that easy.
- [14:49]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [14:49]
Willie Geist
You wanna make it in Hollywood?
- [14:50]
Jason Segel
It's a good thing I was smiling in that moment. Yeah, exactly.
- [14:54]
Willie Geist
Do you remember what you were doing in Hindsight Were you singing? Were you?
- [14:59]
Jason Segel
I might have been singing. Sometimes I put on signed, sealed, delivered.
- [15:03]
Willie Geist
Oh, yeah.
- [15:04]
Jason Segel
Singing Dance down the street. Yeah, I'm very muppety. I am. I live in a small town as well, so I'm kinda like Big Bird. I just bop through town waving at people, spreading goodwill and joy.
- [15:15]
Willie Geist
I love that. I'm the same. I'm a walker too. My wife always says, are you running for mayor or something? Stop, say hello, shake hands. You know, it's a good way to be, I think.
- [15:23]
Jason Segel
Absolutely.
- [15:24]
Willie Geist
Be open, you know.
- [15:25]
Jason Segel
Yeah. I don't start out the day particularly happy sometimes, to be perfectly honest. And one thing I've learned is that I have some control over that. Not a ton, but if I take a walk, if I do some of the tools that I've learned, I can make my day pretty nice with a little bit of effort.
- [15:48]
Willie Geist
So Bill Lawrence, who you mentioned, he's done Ted Lasso and Scrubs and Spin City. I mean, the list is super long. Jesus, he's brilliant. So from that phone call that he gets, hey, let's do a show with Jason Segel. What comes after that? Had they already been cooking up a little bit Shrinking.
- [16:04]
Jason Segel
Yeah. So what I understand is that Brett and Bill had had similar ideas about a therapist going through a crisis. And they had a talk, they pitched their ideas to each other, and they were close enough that they figured out how to combine them. So it became one idea. And then they came to me and gave me a very loose pitch of a premise and asked if I wanted to play the guy. And I said, yeah, and I write as well. And they were very kind and generous of letting me be a co creator and help write the pilot with them. But honestly, having written a bunch of stuff from scratch, you know, I caught a free ride on this one. I'm proud of my contributions, but I got very lucky that those guys came to me.
- [16:46]
Willie Geist
The train was already moving down the tracks.
- [16:48]
Jason Segel
Yeah. And I got to hop on.
- [16:50]
Willie Geist
Yeah. And so that obviously you, at this point in your career, you don't jump on something you don't really believe in. So even before Harrison Ford was cast, you had a sense there was something special there.
- [17:00]
Jason Segel
Yeah, yeah, I did. Well, I think Bill is amazing. I think Brett is incredible. And also, I think when you get on early enough and have some contribution to sh. The story and the tone and like I said, being able to say that thing about, yeah, let's do it, but let's push him as far as we can. Let's dig that hole as deep as possible that he has to get out of. It's something interesting about starting a character in a hole. I did the same thing in forgetting Sarah Marshall. I think that starting someone at rock bottom is actually a very hopeful place to start, because the only place to go is up.
- [17:34]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [17:35]
Jason Segel
If you start someone on their wedding day, you're like, oh, this is gonna get bad. You know? But you start somebody at rock bottom, and you know that you're gonna be on a journey of them getting better and better and better. And it's actually a very hopeful place to start.
- [17:48]
Willie Geist
And he wants so badly to be better for his daughter and his friends. Backslides like we all do, and.
- [17:54]
Jason Segel
Yeah, it's very relatable.
- [17:55]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [17:55]
Jason Segel
It's not linear. Getting better is not linear. Right. And there's these things where you're like, oh, I think I've got it. And then you try to go on a date, and you're like, nope, didn't. Apparently, I did not have it.
- [18:07]
Willie Geist
I know that feeling, unfortunately. So Harrison Ford says yes. Next thing you know, you find yourself in scenes across from a guy who was heroed. All of us growing up kind of goes without saying. Even with all your experience and your talent as an actor, was that first day on set in a scene like, I can't believe I'm sitting here across from Harrison Ford. Or were you able to work through that?
- [18:33]
Jason Segel
You don't know my actual experience of it, because maybe it's unique to me. But if you have a complicated brain that wants to tell you that something is wrong, or you didn't get it quite right, or you zigged where you should have zagged or what could have been. Then all of a sudden, you find yourself standing across from Harrison Ford doing acting. It is impossible to feel like it didn't all work out. You know what I mean?
- [19:03]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Jason Segel
I was standing there like, oh, you're right where you're supposed to be. And that. That was a. I've continued that feeling of peace since we started shrinking.
- [19:14]
Willie Geist
That's amazing.
- [19:15]
Jason Segel
Yeah. That voice gets overruled by reality.
- [19:19]
Willie Geist
Yep. You know, that's so cool. It was validating in some way.
- [19:22]
Jason Segel
Yeah. Like, it doesn't get better than. I'm doing comedy and drama across from one of my idols. And also with new friends who are as formidable. Jessica Williams is a genius.
- [19:34]
Willie Geist
She's great.
- [19:35]
Jason Segel
Yeah. When I am doing comedy with her and drama, I have to be present and I have to be on my toes, and I have to bring my A game. The last time I Felt that way was with Paul Ruddy when we were making our movies where it was like, you cannot phone it in. Yeah, you better be ready. And I have that with each of my castmates.
- [19:56]
Willie Geist
Harrison Ford, too. He maintains his Harrison Fordness. A little gruff as the character, but he's also so funny in this. Like, he can do both, clearly.
- [20:06]
Jason Segel
Yes.
- [20:07]
Willie Geist
And he appears to relish those opportunities where he gets to be funny.
- [20:11]
Jason Segel
Yeah. I think all of us, especially when you're a performer or an artist, have parts of us we haven't gotten to fully show to an audience that we want to be known. And for him, I think Harrison believed that he could do some of these big set comedy pieces that no one had seen him do. And he does, and he kills them. There is an episode in season one where Harrison Ford shows up stoned to a birthday party, and it is as funny as anything I've ever seen. Like, guy's a genius.
- [20:42]
Willie Geist
And he goes all in on that comedy, right?
- [20:43]
Jason Segel
Yeah, he goes all in. Everybody on the show goes all in. Everyone cares really deeply about the show. That is another thing that is really unique to this set. Everyone really wants it to be great.
- [20:55]
Willie Geist
It's funny because of the Star wars and the Indiana Jones of it all. I think people's initial reaction was like, what's Harrison Ford doing in that series? Right. What is this going to be? What is this? And it's been so. In some way, it's been this incredible, incredibly pleasant surprise to a lot of people.
- [21:09]
Jason Segel
Yeah. And I think may. I don't want to speak for him, but I think maybe for him, too. I'm sure he showed up not exactly knowing what this experience was going to be like, but it's actually quite challenging. It's not a typical sitcom where you kind of pull out move number 22.
- [21:27]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [21:27]
Jason Segel
You know?
- [21:28]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [21:29]
Jason Segel
All of a sudden, within one scene, you're. You're doing comedy. And then this turn happens where Harrison Ford's character realizes his Parkinson's isn't gonna allow him to do something any longer. And there's a turn in the scene where you have to dig deep. And it's everything an actor could hope for.
- [21:51]
Willie Geist
You guys are all good together. It's just. It works. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. It's like, this is a good group. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Jason Segal right after the break. Netcredit is here to say yes to.
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Jason Segel
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Willie Geist
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- [23:14]
Jason Segel
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- [23:19]
Willie Geist
Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to us either. The Colonel lived so we could chicken.
- [23:24]
Jason Segel
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- [23:35]
Willie Geist
Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Jason Siegel. You mentioned your early days as an actor with the Zoo Story.
- [23:42]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [23:45]
Willie Geist
And it's amazing to me that you were discovered at that point and like hopped into Hollywood from basically a school play that maybe was more of a showcase.
- [23:54]
Jason Segel
Yes. Yeah, I had my high school acting coach named Ted Walsh. She just recently passed away. Changed my life. I was on the basketball team like you. My nickname was Dr. Dunk because I had won a dunk contest.
- [24:07]
Willie Geist
What was your. How do you throw a two hander? Like what's.
- [24:10]
Jason Segel
I could do it all, but my. I used a little bit of lying. I pretended that I couldn't see. I pulled the jersey over my head.
- [24:19]
Willie Geist
Oh, that's great.
- [24:20]
Jason Segel
Yeah. And I had somebody spin me around and then I dunked. But I could see through the jersey.
- [24:24]
Willie Geist
Yeah, but it's all theater. You gotta give them something.
- [24:26]
Jason Segel
You gotta give them something.
- [24:27]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Jason Segel
Anyway, I was playing basketball, but I was doing secret shame acting at night. That was the kind of rebel I was. I was sneaking off into the night and doing acting.
- [24:39]
Willie Geist
Such a bad boy.
- [24:40]
Jason Segel
Oh, yeah. Trouble. So I was slowly falling in love with acting. I never did one of the big school plays because I would have been made fun of by the basketball team. You know, it was like that age. But I was getting better and better, and the head of the acting department came to me, and he said, hey, I think that you might be good at this. How about you and I put on a little play and I'll direct it? He said, and you and this other guy will star in it. We'll just do it in the little black box theater. 30 people. That's it. I said, okay. And so we put on a very complicated play. And there was this audience out there of adults I didn't recognize. And the next week, my parents sat me down and said that that was a secret showcase where he had invited casting directors from the different studios and from around Hollywood to come see me act without telling me. And he sat my parents down and said, I think your son can do this for a living if he wants to. There's some people ready to help him out.
- [25:39]
Willie Geist
It says a lot about what he thought of you as an actor, and also that he didn't want to freak you out and tell you this was an audition or something.
- [25:45]
Jason Segel
He handled it perfectly. And my life changed after that.
- [25:48]
Willie Geist
So what was the first job after that? So the showcase, These people like you.
- [25:53]
Jason Segel
Yeah. I did one of the great classics after that called Dead man on Campus, where I played a college student who was just. We won't get into it. It was filthy. And then I did another teen movie called Can't Hardly Wait. Sure. Well, I did a movie called SLC Punk, actually, which was my first real acting in a movie, and it was pretty cool. This is where I was a bad boy. IDs were not digital at that point, and I was not 18 years old. And so I went to downtown LA and got a fake ID, and I filmed my first movie, my first real movie, using a fake id, fake paperwork.
- [26:28]
Willie Geist
Wow, look at this.
- [26:30]
Jason Segel
I'm still proud of her.
- [26:30]
Willie Geist
Very nice.
- [26:31]
Jason Segel
And then months later, I auditioned for Freaks and geeks. I was 19 years old, and that's when I met Judd. And my life changed again.
- [26:39]
Willie Geist
Freaks and Geeks cult classic. I think it was only like 18 episodes or something like that.
- [26:44]
Jason Segel
13 or 18, something like that.
- [26:45]
Willie Geist
Something in that range.
- [26:46]
Jason Segel
We knew that the show was gonna get canceled because. And we were young, we didn't know the ins and outs of Hollywood. But there's a beautiful craft service table, okay. Like, with deli meats and breads and all this stuff. And around mid season, it started to become, like, a box of corn pops and some creamer. Like, oh, we're getting canceled. I see. And so they did something really cool. Sometimes when a Show is canceled, you find out and they just pull the plug. You just don't go to work the next day. So they shot the finale of Freaks and Geeks mid season and held it.
- [27:23]
Willie Geist
Oh, wow.
- [27:24]
Jason Segel
Knowing that at some point, the plug just might be pulled. And so we would have the finale, we would have an ending. And that's why there's an ending to the show.
- [27:32]
Willie Geist
Wow. I didn't realize that.
- [27:33]
Jason Segel
That's amazing. It's really smart.
- [27:34]
Willie Geist
So that's good to know. If the cold cuts leave the table, you're in trouble.
- [27:38]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Willie Geist
For young actors out there, you should know.
- [27:40]
Jason Segel
I don't even see a craft service table, bro.
- [27:44]
Willie Geist
Give me the hook. Mid interview. So Freaks and Geeks, it had a short run, but it is a classic. And more importantly, you get to know Judd in that process, and he gave me great advice.
- [27:54]
Jason Segel
That was where Jud took me and a couple others aside and said, listen, if you can improv the way you're improving on this show, you can write. You just need to learn how to do it. So I'm gonna teach you how to write. And there was a bit of an apprenticeship period where I literally learned how to write a script. And then his parting words to me were, listen, Jace, you're a weird dude. The only way you're gonna make it is if you write your own material. And he was right. It changed my life. Wow. I wrote Forgetting Sarah Marshall like a year after that.
- [28:27]
Willie Geist
Yeah. So before Sarah Marshall, you're in some big movies, right? You're in Knocked up.
- [28:32]
Jason Segel
And Knocked up came right before. So here's what I think happened. Freaks and Geeks got canceled. We did one other show called Undeclared, similar cast. And I believe that Jud went on like a Monte Cristo style revenge mission to show that Hollywood was wrong and that these kids were good at acting. So he systematically started putting us in movies. And he put Seth in 40 year old virgin. And then Seth did Knocked up as the lead, and he put the rest of us in as the friends. And after Knocked up, he took me to a Laker game. And he said, I think it's you're at bat.
- [29:11]
Willie Geist
Wow.
- [29:11]
Jason Segel
Yeah. You have any ideas? And I said, yeah, I just started writing this thing called Forgetting Sarah Marshall. And I pitched him the idea at a Laker game. And the next day, basically, contracts arrived and they said, like, go write the script and we'll shoot it next year.
- [29:26]
Willie Geist
That's amazing.
- [29:26]
Jason Segel
Yeah, So I shot that the first hiatus of How I Met yout Mother.
- [29:30]
Willie Geist
So that's a Lot of trust, too, because you're still young at that point. Like, we're gonna put this on you. You write it, star in it.
- [29:37]
Jason Segel
Yeah. I was a young dude, but we had the naivety of youth.
- [29:40]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Jason Segel
You know, like, it's funny, I have to remind myself sometimes to be brave enough to write the Dracula puppet musical. Because when you're that age, you're like, why wouldn't I end a studio romantic comedy with a lavish puppet musical? But then as you get older and you understand more, it just seems ludicrous. But I gotta remember, like, no, that's what it looks like to be brave.
- [30:08]
Willie Geist
Yes.
- [30:09]
Jason Segel
Because bravery can be replaced by strategy. And it hasn't proven to be a good idea for me. For some people, it's great. But I am a weird dude. And so the less strategic I am, and the more I let ideas be in charge, the better the work seems to be.
- [30:25]
Willie Geist
It's worked out pretty well for you.
- [30:27]
Jason Segel
Yeah. My pace is slower. I've thought about it. My pace is slower. I write something good every three or four years, and that's gonna be plenty good.
- [30:36]
Willie Geist
And forgetting Sarah Marshall was very well received. It's a great movie. That had to be so gratifying, because in some ways, that was your launch. Like, this is him. This is his thing.
- [30:46]
Jason Segel
Yeah, it was pretty great. But I'll tell you what the best part of it was. I did not tell my mom that. I did. Full front humidity. And then I brought her to the premiere. No. Yeah. And so this was, to me, gonna be the greatest joke any human being has ever pulled on their parents. So sitting next. They're gonna be so mad I'm telling this story right now. Cause they love your show. My entire family is watching right now. So anyway, my parents are sitting next to me, and all of a sudden, the breakup scene happens. And there I am, fully naked, and the audience is gasping. And I look to my mom, expecting her to be laughing, and she is, like, beet red. She said, why didn't you tell me? I said, I thought it would be a funny joke. She said, this is not a funny joke. And she, like, got up and left the theater for, like, five minutes. And she came back. I think she had been crying in the bathroom. And then she came back and she watched the rest of the movie. And then she sent an email to my family that said, I would like to inform you that Jason has chosen to do full frontal nudity in his upcoming film. However, I assure you it's not gratuitous and essential to the Plot. No way.
- [31:58]
Willie Geist
Oh, my God. I hope you framed that email.
- [32:00]
Jason Segel
I love you so much.
- [32:01]
Willie Geist
Bravo, Mom. That is incredible. Tasteful nudity.
- [32:05]
Jason Segel
Yes.
- [32:06]
Willie Geist
Oh, my God. That is amazing. So she walked out, but then she understood.
- [32:09]
Jason Segel
She understood context. Yeah. Because I. I actually did get dumped while naked. That is straight from my life.
- [32:14]
Willie Geist
I've heard that. Yeah. That actually happened.
- [32:16]
Jason Segel
Yeah. Yeah. It was great.
- [32:17]
Willie Geist
I won't make you retell that story, but, my God, is it funny, right?
- [32:20]
Jason Segel
It's morning after all. It's morning time, right?
- [32:22]
Willie Geist
You know, but the fact that you went in and looked for an outfit.
- [32:25]
Jason Segel
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:27]
Willie Geist
There's so many elements to it. It's great people can find it somewhere. Stick around for more of my conversation with Jason Siegel right after a quick break. These days, you've got two choices. Buying a new car or making the one you've got run like new. That's why we have thousands of ASC certified technicians to help you get more out of your car. Firestone Complete Auto Care Book now at Firestone. You can't count on much these days. No way. Jim, this is incredible, but you can.
- [32:55]
Jason Segel
Always count on Sundays with the NFL on CBS and Paramount.
- [32:59]
Willie Geist
Plus, here we go.
- [33:00]
Jason Segel
This time for real. Watch your local NFL game live every Sunday all the way through the AFC Championship game and he's in for a touchdown. Visit paramountplus.com NFL to get started today and count on Sundays with the NFL on CBS and Paramount. Plus, hey, everybody, it's Babs from brunch with Babs. And do I have a tip for you. If you share my passion for classic style and joyful living, you're going to love Birch Lane. Their timeless furniture and decor is carefully crafted to bring joy to your home for years to come, just like the memories you make there. Plus, it's delivered fast and free. Free. Shop my handpicked Birch Lane collection and more classic styles@birch lane.com.
- [33:49]
Willie Geist
Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Jason Siegel. So. So that. That obviously does great. And then, as you say in parallel, you're doing this massive, successful sitcom, so your life is like sitcom, movie, sitcom, movie.
- [34:05]
Jason Segel
It was pretty wild. Yeah. I would be writing a movie during the How I Met yout Mother season and shoot it during the hiatus and then go back and do the next season of the show. The show went on for nine years, so it was. Yeah, I was tired for sure. I was tired and young. And the next thing I took on after forgetting Sarah Marshall was Muppets, which was a lot of pressure, really exciting. But it was yeah, it was definitely a lot on my plate.
- [34:29]
Willie Geist
And Muppets did great.
- [34:30]
Jason Segel
Muppets was the best.
- [34:31]
Willie Geist
I mean, what fun, right? I mean, that's dream stuff, isn't it? When you get to the point where you can say, what about a Muppets movie? And somebody says, yes.
- [34:39]
Jason Segel
Yeah, they're my childhood idols. I actually, like, say this in earnest. It's not a cute thing. I did not have many friends growing up. I was a weird kid, and I felt really at home with the Muppets. And my mom had taped every episode of the Muppet show to show me, and I watched them and I fell in love, and I felt like, that's what I want to do. I want to put on a show. Yeah. You know?
- [35:04]
Willie Geist
Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:05]
Jason Segel
I have another fun Muppet story for you.
- [35:07]
Willie Geist
Please. Yeah.
- [35:08]
Jason Segel
So when the Muppets finish, you do these test screenings. My character's name was Gary, and so they showed it to a bunch of kids. It was the cutest thing you ever saw. And they watched the movie, and then they made them fill out these little forms. And I was like, what did you like most about the movie? They gave me one of the forms and the kid had written, the Muppets are fun. You know. What's your favorite part of the movie? When the Muppets sing songs, what's your least favorite part of the movie? Gary's face.
- [35:40]
Willie Geist
Oh.
- [35:41]
Jason Segel
Oh, I have that framed on my wall. Yeah. Gary's face. My mom says that to me when I make fun of her. She just says, gary's face.
- [35:49]
Willie Geist
You got some tough critics, you know. Yeah.
- [35:52]
Jason Segel
From the mouth of babes. I get it.
- [35:54]
Willie Geist
That's incredible.
- [35:54]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [35:55]
Willie Geist
You know what? There are a lot of famous moments of test audiences not liking something. It became very.
- [36:00]
Jason Segel
For sure.
- [36:00]
Willie Geist
Very good. So you can sleep well.
- [36:02]
Jason Segel
I'm very proud of the Muppets. You know, it was really scary because that's something I cared deeply about, and I didn't want to mess it up. But we made it from the heart, and I think it shows.
- [36:12]
Willie Geist
I was so interested to read that once How I Met yout Mother ended. You're still. Again, you're still pretty young. You're in your mid-30s. Yeah. Early 30s, young man. And, like, you did it like you made it. You were on one of the biggest shows of all time. It's gonna be on in syndication forever.
- [36:30]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [36:31]
Willie Geist
But you weren't really feeling that way. Right. It didn't feel like a victory. You wanted more.
- [36:36]
Jason Segel
Something was missing for me, and I couldn't quite figure out what. It was, and I have since, which is, I think that if you are trying to make art, especially if you're writing, part of. Part of your responsibility is to be writing stuff that is reflective of what you're thinking about and trying to maybe be processing what you're going through on behalf of an audience so that maybe it helps them process stuff too. Maybe that's the function of art. I don't know. But I think I was working so much that I wasn't really experiencing much life. I wasn't really processing anything except making. Making stuff. And so starting to repeat my material. I was 33 years old, and all of a sudden I had this revelation, like, why are you still writing things about being scared of girls?
- [37:32]
Willie Geist
Right.
- [37:33]
Jason Segel
You know, you're like a grown man who's doing really well and you're not scared of girls anymore. It was true at 24, 25, like, forgetting Sarah Marshall is true, and that's why you feel that. But when you try to stretch that and make ever less potent facsimile copies of an idea, it just wasn't satisfying. And I knew I wasn't doing something quite right for me. And so I set off to figure out how I could feel good doing this job for the rest of my life. And I think I've gotten there and.
- [38:08]
Willie Geist
I feel like audiences recognize that too. Like, oh, that actor's doing that again. You know, they see it.
- [38:13]
Jason Segel
Yeah, for sure. And of course, like, you know, there's also. I've come to terms with, why are you supposed to know any of this? Like, you know, you figure it out as you go, but, yeah, yeah, you feel it. And I want you. Only I get to make so many of these. As you get older, you start to realize, like, you know what I mean?
- [38:34]
Willie Geist
Yes.
- [38:34]
Jason Segel
Yeah. Every few years you get to make something, make them count.
- [38:39]
Willie Geist
But when you're 24, it's infinite.
- [38:40]
Jason Segel
It's gonna go on forever.
- [38:41]
Willie Geist
Forever. Yeah.
- [38:42]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [38:43]
Willie Geist
Was part of your growth and that getting out of la, as you said, you live in a small town sort of north of la, was that helpful to the squaring of your head and thinking about different things?
- [38:57]
Jason Segel
Yeah. Well, I think that one of the things that I started to realize also is that if you live in LA and you're doing this job, you're never really leaving campus.
- [39:06]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [39:08]
Jason Segel
So there is no in between, period. Even the most casual go out to dinner or lunch is, like, often in relation to work. And I wanted to make sure that I was thinking about life stuff. And my mother actually was Very persistent about telling me, you need to make sure you have a balance between work and life. Because, man, like, the engine it requires to make it is so high. You have to be so singularly focused. You have to put your head down. I mean, it's like achieving the impossible every time. But that's the same throttle. You have to kind of switch the other way once you have a chance to breathe. And say, like, make sure you're being a human being too, or the art's gonna be worthless.
- [39:50]
Willie Geist
Right, right. You can get in a bubble pretty quickly, can't you? Yeah, yeah. You can't experience anything. I love what you said. I was reading a different interview where you said something like, in the town where you live, when someone says, what are you up to? You can say, I'm going to the post office. It doesn't mean, do you have something in development in Hollywood?
- [40:08]
Jason Segel
I was always so sweaty about, like, am I doing enough? Do I seem a certain way?
- [40:13]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [40:14]
Jason Segel
And now, like, I'm doing the best I can. That's going to be.
- [40:18]
Willie Geist
Yeah, right. Liberating, though. All that feels good.
- [40:21]
Jason Segel
But we were talking before this interview. I think that that can only come with age, for sure. I sometimes look back and think, oh, man, you should have understood that back then. But you can't. It's just not how it works. Right.
- [40:32]
Willie Geist
That's the thing we said. What would you tell your younger self? Don't worry, it's all going to work out. Well, let's say when you're 50 to the 22 year old, there's no clue what's coming around the corner. Are we talking yet about a season three of shrinking? Do we feel like that might be down the road?
- [40:48]
Jason Segel
We are. We are. Because we're writing it. But I don't know. But nobody.
- [40:52]
Willie Geist
But it's happening, we think.
- [40:54]
Jason Segel
I think so. Yeah. I don't know if they've announced it yet.
- [40:57]
Willie Geist
Okay, then we.
- [40:58]
Jason Segel
But I think so.
- [40:59]
Willie Geist
I think the fans will certainly hope that.
- [41:01]
Jason Segel
Yeah, I certainly hope it. It's so crazy because having done nine years of a TV show, I left that experience very, very grateful. But also thinking, like, I don't want to do anything for that extended amount of time ever again. Because you're not playing different characters. This show I can picture doing for as long as we can keep it good.
- [41:21]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [41:21]
Jason Segel
Because it's very challenging.
- [41:24]
Willie Geist
So what else is out there for you? I mean, you do as you say. The world has kind of opened up to you. You took a swing here with shrinking. That has really worked. For you. Are there other things you think about as an artist?
- [41:35]
Jason Segel
Yes. I just wrote something that I think I'm gonna try to make next hiatus. Here I am back in the cycle again. No, but I wrote something that's very relevant about what I think about and what's been going on in my life over the past 10 years that I think I'll make over the summer, which I'm really excited about. I'm going to Finland tomorrow to go make an action adjacent type movie.
- [41:56]
Willie Geist
Incredible.
- [41:57]
Jason Segel
That'd be really fun.
- [41:58]
Willie Geist
Stunts, the whole thing.
- [41:59]
Jason Segel
Oh, the whole thing. Stunts and fighting and.
- [42:01]
Willie Geist
Have you rehearsed some of the fights?
- [42:03]
Jason Segel
Yeah. It's interesting because in my own head, I'm like a sweet little guy, you know, but apparently, like, because of my height, which I don't acknowledge, I look like a WWE wrestler when I'm doing fight choreography. So it's gonna be a whole new thing. But I think that that's something that's very interesting to me is I'd like. We all know people in our lives who sit at dinner parties and say things like, well, if I had directed the revenants, the bear would have been. Then direct the revenant, you know? And I don't want to be a guy ever who's sitting at a dinner party saying, if I had done that, I want to go find out.
- [42:44]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [42:45]
Jason Segel
So I'm trying to find out all the questions I have.
- [42:48]
Willie Geist
I love that.
- [42:48]
Jason Segel
Yeah.
- [42:49]
Willie Geist
It takes a while to get there, though, doesn't it? Open up that wide.
- [42:53]
Jason Segel
Well, it's very scary to be potentially made fun of.
- [42:57]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [42:58]
Jason Segel
I think that that drives a lot of our decisions is like, I hope I don't look dumb.
- [43:05]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [43:06]
Jason Segel
But luckily I have a very low sense of pride or shame.
- [43:11]
Willie Geist
That comes in handy, doesn't it?
- [43:13]
Jason Segel
Oh, my God, it's the best.
- [43:15]
Willie Geist
Well, congratulations, man. It's so fun to talk to you.
- [43:18]
Jason Segel
You too.
- [43:19]
Willie Geist
And mom, he did it. He made it. Even with the full frontal.
- [43:24]
Jason Segel
Hey, thanks, man. It's been a real pleasure. Yeah.
- [43:26]
Willie Geist
This is so much fun.
- [43:27]
Jason Segel
Thanks. Totally. Thanks, guys.
- [43:29]
Willie Geist
My big thanks again to Jason for a great conversation. You can watch Shrinking on Apple tv, where both seasons one and two are streaming now. And my thanks to all of you, as always for listening again this week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. If you want to hear all of our conversations with my guests every week. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.
- [44:05]
Jason Segel
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