GRAMMY NOMINEE: Kacey Musgraves

Summary

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist: GRAMMY NOMINEE Kacey Musgraves

Release Date: January 31, 2025

In this engaging episode of NBC's "Sunday TODAY with Willie Geist," host Willie Geist sits down with seven-time Grammy winner Kacey Musgraves to delve deep into her artistic journey, songwriting process, and the creation of her latest album, Deeper Well. Recorded in the iconic Electric Lady Studios in Greenwich Village, New York City, the conversation offers listeners an intimate look at the woman behind some of the most resonant songs in contemporary music.

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1. Setting the Stage: Electric Lady Studios

Willie Geist introduces Kacey Musgraves in the storied Electric Lady Studios, a location steeped in musical history and once the creative haven of Jimi Hendrix. The studio's vibrant atmosphere serves as the perfect backdrop for their unfiltered conversation.

Willie Geist [00:51]: "We are sitting in the very room where she wrote and recorded all the songs on her new album, Deeper Well."

Kacey shares her admiration for the studio's unique energy and its influence on her creativity.

Kacey Musgraves [03:10]: "This studio has such a storied past... There's a 20s flapper lady that scares a few people away."

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2. Drawing Inspiration from New York City

The duo takes a stroll around Washington Square Park, where Kacey explains how the city's sights, sounds, and even smells fuel her songwriting. The sensory richness of New York City becomes a recurring theme in her creative process.

Kacey Musgraves [05:15]: "Just right outside on the sidewalk right there... You really do get all the smells of New York."

She recounts a playful challenge they undertook at a nearby Goodwill store, leading to the creation of one of her songs.

Kacey Musgraves [46:38]: "We decided to walk next door to Goodwill, give ourselves 10 minutes and $10 to spend on something we had to wear. I ended up wearing a little white cotton dress and recorded the song Heaven Is."

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3. The Heart of Songwriting: Micro Inspirations

Kacey emphasizes the importance of everyday moments in her songwriting, highlighting how small, seemingly insignificant experiences shape her music.

Kacey Musgraves [05:24]: "For me, it's always the micro, the small, everyday moments... it's just really the human experience that inspires me."

She details her organic songwriting process, favoring handwritten notes over digital distractions.

Kacey Musgraves [06:14]: "Whenever I'm writing, I like paper and a pen. There's something about physically putting the pen on the paper that keeps it tactile and authentic."

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4. Crafting "Deeper Well": Themes and Reflections

"Deeper Well" represents a more grounded and introspective phase in Kacey's career. She explores themes of self-growth, emotional resilience, and the complexities of human relationships.

Kacey Musgraves [09:01]: "Deeper Well feels very grounded. I'm 35 and feel like I know myself better... it's like observations on life and human emotion."

The title track embodies her mission to eliminate negativity and embrace personal growth.

Kacey Musgraves [09:56]: "Ruthlessly removing resistance to growth... casting aside energy that drains you."

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5. Exploring Spirituality Through Music

One of the standout tracks, "The Architect," delves into profound questions about faith and existence. Inspired by personal tragedies and philosophical inquiries, Kacey collaborates with co-writers to navigate these deep waters.

Kacey Musgraves [11:45]: "We discussed if there's something larger at play, like a force or God, and why so much suffering exists."

She poignantly relates the song to the loss of a dear friend, adding a layer of emotional depth.

Kacey Musgraves [13:44]: "Steve Marklin, a big part of my career early on, had his house burn down... it's a big question about faith."

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6. Overcoming Industry Challenges: Authenticity vs. Commercialism

Kacey reflects on her early career struggles in Nashville, where she resisted conforming to traditional country music norms. Her courage to stay true to her artistic vision eventually led to groundbreaking success.

Kacey Musgraves [38:03]: "When I said I want 'Merry Go Round' to be my first single... I knew if it didn't work, I wouldn't have compromised myself."

Her first album's critical acclaim and Grammy win validated her non-conformist approach, encouraging her to continue forging her unique path.

Kacey Musgraves [40:37]: "You can trust yourself. You were right about that."

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7. Personal Growth and Life Changes

Beyond music, Kacey shares glimpses into her personal life, including the impact of her grandmother, her experiences touring, and the balance between her quiet home life and public persona.

Kacey Musgraves [55:13]: "My grandma was my original booking agent... she and my grandpa made so many things possible for us."

She candidly discusses the challenges of maintaining personal stories in her music and how releasing songs to the public adds new dimensions to her work.

Kacey Musgraves [44:35]: "Things feel different... it got a lot busier. It was definitely a total life changer."

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8. Future Endeavors and Inspirations

As "Deeper Well" prepares for its March 15th release, Kacey muses about potential future projects and her enduring love for Nashville's community.

Kacey Musgraves [49:07]: "I love Nashville. The community is irreplaceable... you can't make old friends."

Her tour plans beginning in April promise to bring her latest work to fans across the United States.

Willie Geist [56:54]: "Tickets go on sale soon for her world tour beginning in April, swinging through the United States starting in September."

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Conclusion: A Journey of Authenticity and Artistic Freedom

Kacey Musgraves' conversation with Willie Geist offers a profound look into her dedication to authenticity, her lyrical depth, and her unwavering commitment to her artistic vision. From the historic halls of Electric Lady Studios to the bustling streets of New York City, Kacey's journey is a testament to the power of staying true to oneself in the face of industry pressures.

Kacey Musgraves [54:18]: "You poke authority and you don't fit the conventional. You know what country's always supposed to be about."

As "Deeper Well" approaches its release, fans can anticipate a collection of songs that continue to challenge, inspire, and resonate on multiple levels, embodying Kacey's evolution as one of today's most compelling songwriters.

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This summary captures the essence of Kacey Musgraves' insightful conversation on the Sunday Sitdown Podcast, highlighting key discussions, personal anecdotes, and her artistic philosophy.

Transcript

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[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down Podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am very excited to bring you my conversation this week with seven Tom Grammy winner Casey Musgraves. She is quite simply one of the best songwriters in the business right now. She just won, by the way, her seventh Grammy a few weeks ago for her performance on the Zach Bryan song I Remember Everything. Casey and I got together at Electric Lady Studios in New York City down in Greenwich Village, just a few blocks away from Washington Square Park. If you don't know, Electric Lady Studios was an apartment building way back when, purchased by Jimi Hendrix, turned into a recording recording studio, and has been the home and the recording place of everyone you've ever heard in music. Anybody you can think of has recorded an album there. It still has kind of a 60s 70s vibe to it. And Casey and I, when you hear us having our conversation, we are sitting in the very room where she wrote and recorded all the songs on her new album, Deeper.

[Casey Musgraves]

Well, a lot of fun to talk to.

[Willie Geist]

Grew up in a tiny, tiny town in Texas called Golden and has risen up over the last decade or so to become one of really the most respected but also the best artists in all of music. Kind of bucking convention in Nashville, as you'll hear. Didn't step right in and do the typical country thing. She had a little bit more to say with maybe a little bit of a harder edge than some of the record labels thought she should have. But she is extraordinary. She is one of a kind. She's got a great story to tell and you're going to hear it right now with Casey Musgraves on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Casey Musgraves]

Thanks so much for doing this, Casey.

Thank you.

I'M so excited to be in the room where it happened, as they say. This is where Deeper well was sort of conceived and written and performed right in this room.

Totally. Yeah. This is the studio that we kind of inhabited for the few months that we spent working on this. And it was truly an amazing experience.

What does this place mean to an artist? I love talking to artists who record in here or write in here. It seems like they draw some different kind of inspiration than they do everywhere else when they're at Electric Lady.

Yeah, I mean, I think every studio has its own energy, you know, but this one has such a storied past this building. And it being literally Jimi Hendrix's apartment, like, right here, that's some seriously good mojo. And I just know so many amazing creatives are drawn to creating here. And there's a reason, I think you've.

Said it has great ghosts.

It has good ghosts. Yeah. I was always trying to spot than myself, but I never. I never got that lucky. But there are. There are some. Yeah, some characters, apparently, that roam the halls. There's like a 20s flapper lady, and she's scared a few people away.

It was a saloon and a nightclub before Jimmy bought it, so there's all kinds of things.

Yeah. And then he renovated it, made it his own, like, amazing studio. And I think it's pretty. Like, it's very. I don't think he's been touched. Like, it's pretty original, you know?

Yeah. No, I think, like you said, some of these murals are from when he was here.

Yeah, he commissioned these, which is. They still look amazing. They're so, like, space agey and. But yeah, it's just like, it's in the heart of Greenwich Village. And, you know, as you know, there's such a rich folk history, folk music history, songwriter history, poets, activism. All of that happened here. And I don't know, it just. I was very drawn to getting out of Nashville and creating somewhere where there was a different energy, different kind of life bubbling around you. And I just think New York is one of the most unique cities in the world. So it's inspiring, for sure.

Get inspiration just walking out on the sidewalk.

Oh, my gosh, you know? Yeah. Like, we would walk to the studio most days through Washington Square park, you know, and it's like, it smells like pizza and like piss and weed and like perfume. And there's like a boombox playing reggae over here. There's skateboarders, there's people reading. And it's just like sensory overload, you know, and you're walking in the studio with your little blank canvas in your mind, and you're like, okay, what am I going to create today? And you're kind of through osmosis, picking up all these sounds and sights and things, and I think, you know, maybe they weave their way in somehow.

You really do get all the smells of New York just in that one part.

Just right outside on the sidewalk right there.

You are definitely the kind of person, I think it's fair to say, who draws inspiration from everyday life. Right. Walking around, you see something at the grocery store, whatever it is.

Oh, totally.

And you start writing a song in your head. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I think, like, for me, anyways, inspiration, it doesn't really come, like, in the, like, from the grand, like, the big moments. For me, it's like always the micro, the small, everyday moments. And I do feel like inspiration is available to everybody, you know, on that small level, you just have to really kind of tune in to see it. I mean, it's just really the human experience that inspires me.

So I'm so interested always to hear how a great songwriter, like you. And I do mean a great songwriter. And you show it again on this.

That's subjective.

On this new.

No, no, no.

That is not. I think we all agree on that. And you hear it again on this new album, you're just a beautiful songwriter. Just your process. So you draw the inspiration. A thought gets sort of buried in your head somewhere, and then what do you do? Do you have a blank page in front of you or what does that look like?

Well, usually just like, when I'm on the go, I just throw it in my notes app. You know, it could be like a title, like a word, and I'm like, okay, that would make a great song. Or it could be like a snippet of a conversation or like just an observation. Some sort of little seed or genesis, you know, goes in there. It kind of just waits, you know, until I have time to dig it up and really sit down and, like, work on it. But whenever I'm writing and like, actually sitting down to write, like, a lot of people use, like, computers and stuff, I just get too distracted. I like a piece of paper and a pen and, like, I just keep it really tactile. And then it's awesome because you have all of your handwritten. Like you have handwritten accounts of everything. But there's something about, like, physically putting the pen on the paper that's like. I just always go to that.

And so you have stacks of Paper effectively. And then you get in a place like this and you go, eh, maybe that wasn't as great as I thought it was at the time.

Or just kind of start over or, like, rework something. Yeah.

And so you bring those sheets of paper in this room, you got lyrics you think you're happy with, and then how do you put the music to it? How does that work?

It really happens so conversationally, you know, I made the record with Ian Fitchhook and Daniel Taschian. We made Star Cross and Golden Hour together. We're great friends. And, yeah, I don't know, we just kind of set out on a little journey together to explore, like, see what feels good, talk about, you know, what might be inspiring at the moment. And someone will just. Some Daniel, somebody will grab a guitar and just start, like, playing some chords, and it's like, either that feels, ah, what about this? You know, and we just collaboratively, like, just massage it until it feels like something. It's so fun.

So, Casey, how do you know when it's time or that you're ready for a new album? Because it happens. Not on some schedule. It's not like you're doing it every two years, it seems to me. It's when you're ready. How do you know, okay, I'm ready to say something with Deeper?

Well, I mean, I think that's. That the whole thing is, do you have something to say? You know, I don't want to just scrounge around trying to find something to say. That's when I know it's not, like, authentically time, I think. But I think enough time went by from, like, enough time will go by from a last project where you're like, I'm kind of getting the itch to create something again. I don't really know what. And yeah, luckily, you just have the creative freedom and time to just not feel pressured to do something. Just explore, see what feels good, see what's out there, cast a line, see what you get. And then you just keep doing that enough and eventually some sort of shape starts to emerge.

So you mentioned your last couple of albums. Golden Hour is I've Found Love. Star Crossed is the Shakespearean I'm in pain. I have Heartbreak. And that brings us to Deeper. Well, which is what kind of album for you?

Well, it feels very grounded. I'm 35. I feel like I know myself better than, you know, maybe in the past, just getting older and learning about myself. I think this album, like Star Crossed, was very specifically about one relationship kind of in the end of that and Deeper well, is more maybe like some of the older albums, which is more just like observations on life and just human emotion and nature and, like, lightness, darkness. Like, God, what is the meaning of that word? You know? And what's on the other side of all this, you know, Just a lot. It's a lot more like life, I think. Questions about life.

Yeah. I mean, you take the title track, you take Deeper well, which I think you said something like, this album is me ruthlessly clearing out my life. Just kind of like Marie Kondo starting over.

Yeah, it's ruthlessly. I wrote this down the other day. Ruthlessly removing resistance to growth. And that could mean a lot of different things. You know, maybe a relationship just, like, isn't serving you well, or, you know, you're just got these habits that are just holding you back or, you know, whatever.

There's some growing up in that song, too.

Maybe some growing up, but not all the way. Just like a little bit. Just.

Yeah, yeah. Well, in Deeper well, you talk about, you know, I've just decided the people in my life who are sort of taking from me or not making me feel good, I'm just gonna cast them aside. It's nothing personal.

Yeah.

I just don't need that energy.

Is that totally. Everything has a season, you know, Even friendships, even loves, you know, business, relationships, whatever. It's like there are seasons maybe, and some are meant to go, I think, the long haul, and then maybe some aren't. And I think just being able to tune into the awareness of, like, okay, is this. Is this still right for me? You know, and not just coasting along and just accepting, oh, this is just the way it is. It's like, no, let's take sock here. Because everything can either feed you or drain you, you know, of energy, I feel.

But that's hard to do sometimes, isn't it? Because the easy way is to coast and say, okay, I don't love it, but it's more difficult for me to get rid of it.

Or. Yeah, or like, you know, being a people pleaser and being like, well, it would hurt their feelings if I, like, didn't go, you know, hang out with them every Friday or whatever. But then when you leave the hang, you're like, why am I so drained? You know?

Yes.

Yeah. Just paying attention, I think, and just.

Giving yourself a break a little bit.

Yeah.

Making yourself happy.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. You were talking about faith, too. There's a beautiful song I was talking about called the Architect, which is such a great Way to tell that story and to approach that subject. What is that song about to you? The Architect.

So I wrote that song with my two good friends, Shane McEnally and Josh Osborne. And I'd had that title for a while. Again, just like in my back pocket, just like, okay, the Architect. I had like the giver, the taker, the Architect. And I was like, are those separate songs? Are they all in one song? Like, I wasn't sure. And then we got together in Nashville and it was actually, it was a couple weeks after the horrific school shooting in Nashville, the covenant thing that happened. And we were just sitting there and it really, like, it just. Nashville felt so dark there for a while. And like, we sat down and we're just like, God, what do we even want to talk about or write about? It feels, you know, superfluous to be creating something light hearted while something just insane happened here. But anyways, it led us into some interesting topics and I. I pulled out the title, the Architect, and I was like, do you think, you know, maybe is there something here that we could play around with? And anyways, it just turned into like a really inspiring conversation of, like, if there is something at play here, if there is something larger, a force of life, whether you call that God or nature or whatever, like, what is that thing? And if. And like, why is there so much suffering? You know, if there is a blueprint for all of this or like a plan, why are so many people hurting? Like, what is going on there? Because I would like to think that there's like, you know, some sort of positive force or like, moving things along. But there could also. It could also not be everything could be chance. It's like, what is it? We don't know. So anyway, it was interesting.

It's so beautiful because you say, I'd like to speak with the Architect.

Yeah.

And you apply it to beautiful things like the Grand Canyon and then tragedies like, you're talking about here.

There's another line in there. Like, we have this great friend, Steve Marklin, and he was a big part of my career early on in Nashville. Nicest guy ever.

Like, one of the best. He is so loved.

And he just had a really crazy year last year. Several things in a row were just like, unbelievable. And one of the things is his house randomly burned down and they lost everything. And so there's a verse in there. It's just like, you know, one day you're on top of the mountain so high you'll never come down. And then like the wind changes Just a little bit. And there's a spark in the wind and it can burn your whole house to the ground, you know, so it's just. It's just like, okay, what's going on here? You know, who's in charge of this? Is there anyone?

It's a big question about faith that.

Right.

If there is a loving God, how to he or she allow the covenant shooting. And you get at it in such a. Such a nice way.

Yeah. It's really hard to wrap your brain around. I can't really. It's so interesting. I feel like we have so many facts and hard answers for everything in this life, and the main one is one that no one knows. It's just interesting.

Yeah. No, it's a beautiful song. So is Cardinal is a great. That's the first track, I think, isn't it?

Yeah, the record opener.

Yeah. So that's interesting to me, too. I want to hear how you sort of organize the record in that way. But Cardinal, I think, has some questions about faith a little bit too in there.

Yeah.

Just like. Well, first off, have you ever heard the saying, was it when cardinals appear, angels are near? Yes, it's a thing. And so a lot of people believe there's a, you know, a myth about cardinals being spirit messengers or whatever. And I got to know and get close with. Who was so wonderful. John Prine, one of my mentors. Like, just heroes. He and his wife Fiona. And after he passed away, there was just a lot of weird spiritual stuff that kind of started happening. And one of those was like this cardinal that would visit every day and just stare at me, like, through this window. And it would just, like. It was just wild. So anyways, I mean, that's where the genesis of that song came from.

And you're sort of asking the cardinal, are you here to tell me something?

Yeah. Are you bringing me a message or, you know, are you just here waiting around for spring? Yeah.

It seems listening to this record, like you've been thinking a lot about spirituality. Is that fair to say?

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm always just like. I'm always thinking about that kind of stuff. It's so interesting to me. Yeah.

So how do you. Then. That's your opener. Then you go to deeper. Well, the title track. How do you. You've got this beautiful collection of songs. What's that process, then, like, oh, my God. How should we open?

Yeah.

I don't know. Okay. So, like, I'd like to think that I pride myself on making a good sequence, but I just thought Cardinal would be such a great, like that opener, that opening lick, you know.

Like if.

I dropped a needle on a record and I heard that lick, I would be like really happy. But yeah, I don't know. It's interesting because different songs can hit you differently. Like in a, in a, like in a different sequence. Like songs that come before or after each other, like, can they, they can feel slower or faster dependent on each other. They can, different lines can stick out based on what was heard before. I just appreciate the entire album listening process, you know, I know we live in a world that thinks mostly about singles these days, but I just love the experience of, like, here's a chapter, here's, here's, you know, something I was inspired to make. I want you to listen to it as a, as a whole, a little.

World, you know, it's refreshing to hear because I think you're right. Most people just drop singles here and.

There, which is fine. You know, like little snacks. We like that. Keep our attention.

Absolutely. But yeah, but you're telling them it's like chapters in a book, right? You gotta read the whole book to understand.

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Casey Musgraves right after the break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Casey Musgraves.

[Casey Musgraves]

You write these albums and perform them so personally. So I'm curious now, the album's not out yet. As we sit here, what does it feel like to be on the brink of this moment where your life is back out into the open? Is that scary? Is it exciting? What does it feel like to release an album?

It's.

It's all the things.

Yeah, it's.

I mean, it's mostly exciting. It's also exhausting, but creatively, really fulfilling, you know, to, like. I think that's my favorite, like, role in life is to. To have some sort of vision on the horizon. Kind of narrow on this, you know, narrow it in. In the scope, and then kind of live in it, refine it, make it something tactile, and then, you know, like. And then using it to connect with other people. Like, that's so cool that that's, like, a thing I get to do, but. Yeah, but I'm naturally kind of a homebody. I love being, like, just with my friends and, like, my dog and, like, my fireplace and kind of living my, like, quiet little life, like cooking and going to the farmer's market. So then coming up on a period to be more, like, public facing is like, it can be a little like, okay, here we go, you know, right.

This side of it, rather than just the music. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's. I mean, like, you have all the creation, and that's so fulfilling. And then you've got to go promote it, which, you know, is a necessary part. And I'm happy to do it. It's just like, it can just feel like, oh, my gosh, here we go.

Right?

Yeah.

And there's also, like, a letting go process a little bit, I feel, to spending, you know, a year and a half or so with all these songs, they're so personal. And you're in the studio every day with, like, your best friends, and you're, you know, you're crying together, laughing together, and it's like summer camp in a little bit of a way. And then, you know, it's. It's over. And you're like, wait. And you have to, like, at some point put the pencil down and say, okay, this is what it is. We're done, you know, and it's time to share, you know, with everyone. But.

But it's gotta be beautiful in that next step, which is you're gonna put it out.

Yeah.

Millions of people are gonna listen to it, learn it, love it. And then the next thing you know, you'll be at a show, there'll be a whole bunch of people singing back to you the words you created. Right somewhere in this room.

No, it's. It's like the, like, domino effect of that, you know? And, you know, once you release the songs that had their own meaning to you, they all these other meanings and stories and memories get attached to them. So then it kind of lives in this other dimension in a way, which is really cool. It, like, takes on a life of its own. And it's like, I think most creators. It's like when you start to feel like you're like. You've worked on it so much. You've heard the song so many times, you're like, do I hate this? Is this any good? Like, have we, like, ruined this record? It's like, then, you know, they get a second wind, a second life when other ears get to hear them. And so in new life, you know, you get to, like, sort of live vicariously through their. Their new listening. And it, like, it reignites kind of the love for what you've made, which is cool.

Well, congrats on the album. Your fans are going to love it.

Thank you.

You're going to get a whole bunch of new fans, too. It's really beautiful.

Thank you.

I have to congratulate you two on your recent Grammy.

Yeah.

You just won another one. Number seven.

Who's counting? I am. It's.

That is a great tune. How much fun was it to get together with Zach on that?

Oh, my gosh. Well, it's kind of a funny story. I got asked if I wanted to do the song, and of course, I was like, I'm down. But I was. I wasn't feeling well. Like, my throat was hurting. I had just gone on, like, this trip, and they were like, well, we kind of have a deadline. Like, if you want to be on the song, you kind of got to get it in by, like, this day. It was like, in a couple days. And I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot. So, like, I go to the studio, and I'm like, man, my voice is not cooperating. And I was like, I hope this doesn't really suck. But I got through the song, and I did it. And I was like, all right, I feel pretty good about that. But I was like. I left the studio, and I went to the doctor immediately, and I had strep, and I, like, texted, like, the engineer. I was like, I'm so sorry. I had strep, and I was just all up in your space. But yeah.

So that crazy huge hit, Grammy winning song was Strep Throat.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's like sick as literally.

Just kidding.

But yeah.

No, but it was really great to be asked by Zach. And I love the song. I mean, I connected with it immediately and I'm just grateful he asked me.

And again, same idea. What you. You do a song you think is good, you can never imagine how it's ricochet around the world in that way.

No, you can never like what a song is going to do. You can love something and the whole world might not, or vice versa. Like, it's just. I think there's so many factors that go into why something people really connect with something. It could even be timing, like, I don't know. But it was cool because, you know, the song has had a lot of popularity, like in spaces outside of country, kind of in the pop culture world, I guess. And it just made me feel excited that real songs are being, I don't know, like, connected with and loved. Just like even outside of country, you know, people that normally maybe wouldn't love a song like that, like, it was on so many playlists and things that I feel like, I don't know, you wouldn't maybe expect.

There's a lot of that going around. Am I right about that? Like, you obviously at the forefront of it. Zach, Ryan Stapleton, you know, there's a lot of. It seems like the crossover has fully happened. Just good songs, no matter where they come from.

Yeah, just classic songs. Like, I think as a creator, you can get too concerned with, like, am I writing bops? And it's like, well, we want to give the children bops, but at the same time, you know, I just want songs that will wear well over time and that I'll be always proud of and, you know, not chasing something that was popular right here, right now.

Right.

Give the children bops we need to give the children. Give the kids their bops. We need to give the gays their bops.

Everybody needs a bottle.

But this record will be different for the gays. They can take a break from the dance floor. They can sit down, hydrate. Y'all need to hydrate. It's been too long. And then listen to some soft songs. Get back out there. Like, it'll be a responsible respite for our gay friends.

I like how you've thought this through.

This is like, this is a plan for them. This is like you've been on the dance floor. You need to. Yeah, you need to hydrate. You need to sit down let's get.

Some water in you.

Smart.

Look at you. You're always thinking of everybody else. So I want to go back to the beginning. I promise I won't. Through your entire life.

Okay.

Yeah.

But I'm so fascinated about when this thing started for you, which. In that little town, Golden, Texas, which I think is less than 200 people.

If I have the numbers right, a.

Stack on the map somewhere in, like, northeast Texas, I guess.

Yep.

When did music come into your life? And what. What inspired you first?

Right.

It's.

It's hard to even remember a time where it wasn't there. I think I was always just carrying around this, like, little, you know, one of those, like, 80s 90s karaoke, little tape machines with, like, the spiral cord and the mic. I was just walking around. I was like, oh, verb reverb. What? Anyways, just always kind of singing. And then my family, like, noticed that I had a kind of a knack for that. And they kind of, you know, I was singing at the festivals and the fairs and church and school and stuff like that, you know. And then I think I was 12 and I got my guitar or I got a guitar for Christmas and guitar lessons. And so from age, like, 12 to, like, 17, 16, 17, I took guitar. So you think I'd be better, but, like, for that amount of time. But what was really amazing was I would get off the school bus and I would, like, walk every week down to my little guitar teacher's spot. And it was interesting, too. He, like, he taught out of this. He lived and was refurbishing this like, like, antique hotel from, like, the 1800s in our town in Mineola, which is where I went to school. And so it was just like, that was a haunted place. Like, what the hell? I guess it's always been around. But anyways, I would walk down there, take my lesson from him. John DeFore, he was like, an incredible guitar player. Taught so many students. And one thing that was cool about his lessons was that he wasn't like, having me shred, like, scales and learn technical, which now I'm kind of like, maybe I should have. But his. He really pushed me to write songs. Like, he would. He. He taught me enough chords to build songs with and then was like, okay, your homework is to go write a song, and next week I want you to come back and play it for me. You know, he would make me a little work tape of it. He would critique me and be like, okay, you know, well, what about this chord here? Maybe you could try this or if you want to change the mood, you could throw a minor in here or. What did you mean by this line? You know, he would kind of like, was like a songwriting coach. And so it was really invaluable. Like. And so I just did that over and over and, like, started getting a feel for. Okay, well, you know, I grew up singing like, classic country and western, like western swing songs, like, you know, the wholesome classics. And so as I got into be like a teenager and I had my own stories to tell, it was really valuable that I had like a kind of a format to like, learn how to do that with. And then how crazy is like, I end up moving to Nashville. I have a relationship with like a song publisher where they're, you know, I'm turning in songs, I'm turning in work tapes. I mean, it just set me up to know what that was like, to get a feel for that.

Yeah. Cause that's unusual. Usually you have 30 minute guitar lesson, learn a couple of chords and go home and that's it.

Yeah, no, it was a lot more than that.

That's so cool. So you were writing songs when you were like eight, nine years old, right?

Nine, I think was my first one. And it's such a thirsty title. It was called Notice Me. I don't know, like notice Me.

And you performed it at school, didn't you?

I don't know if I performed that one at school, but also I might could have and I'm just not remembering.

Performed it somewhere though, right?

Somewhere.

Yeah. The world saw it.

The world.

Yeah.

Yeah. It was a soft launch. Yeah.

And what was your. Your group was Texas Two Bits, right?

Oh, gosh, yeah.

And you performed at the president's inaugural ball and all kinds of things.

Yeah, we did a lot of things around Texas. We yodeled in harmony and we, like, dressed exactly alike.

Gotta start somewhere.

Yeah. I mean, there's. That's a whole crazy story, but yeah. Did that. Eventually moved to Austin after high school, and I worked at a booking agency for like, two seconds. I was a terrible employee. Terrible.

Yeah.

I think, like, my main role at the booking agency was like, I convinced them to let me be the office party planner.

Oh.

And have a budget for that. And then I also, like, negotiated. I was like, we need to redo this office. It was like in a strip mall. I was like, can. I was like, can I have an office decorating budget? And they were like, yeah, sure. They gave me like $150 and they were like, yeah, make this work. And I. It's so cringey. But I went to Home Depot and you know, like, the paint that gets returned that, like, no one wants, right? Well, it's a bargain paint. I was like, oh, cool. It's like, definitely within the budget. So, like, I went over there and looked around, and there was, like, this really terrible shade of purple. It was like, Barney purple. And I was like, this is the one. This is like, they're gonna love this. And so I, like, come back to the office, and me and this other girl spent the night basically painting the entire office. Oh, you painted it Barney purple. And they came in in the morning and they were all like, what the hell have you done? So, yeah, that was.

I love. Like, you come in demanding a budget for parties and decorating, and then you paint the office purple. But they ke.

And then I. And then I left.

That was it.

I was like, gotta go, y'all.

This isn't for me.

They're like, sick.

But you. So you're in Austin, and then at some point you do Nashville star. And I think after that, you realize, I need to be in Nashville.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I would. I would come up and write with people. One of the first people I met in town was Radney Foster. And he's like a big songwriter, classic songwriter in the Texas scene, but also Nashville. But he lives there. And he kind of. He and his family kind of took me under their wing. They were like, you can come stay with us. Like, you know, they've got kids and dinners going on all the time, and they're like, you can crash here. Anything you need. Because they knew I was far away from my family. So then, yeah, I started to meet people and just would come back and forth so much that I was eventually like, I just need to be here, you know?

[Willie Geist]

Stick around for more of my conversation with Casey Musgraves right after a quick break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Casey Musgraves.

[Casey Musgraves]

So what are those first years like? I don't think people know you as like a fully formed artist and star and your first album was a huge success and all that, but those grindy four, five years, whatever it was before your first album came out, what were those years like for you?

Really fun. Nashville is like so exciting. I moved there like at the end of 2008, so it's been a minute, but I rented a house, like, sight unseen on Shelby Avenue between 6th and 7th. And it was like. It was a really. The house had a lot of character. I'll say. And there was a woman that lived upstairs. The house was divided into two apartments and I was on the bottom with a friend. And then this woman was upstairs named Mama Sophia. And she had a big yellow dog and no job, no car, but she had a golf putter that she would walk around with. And she was like the best, trippiest lady ever. And we would like go up there and smoke weed with her. And it just was like so many stories and just life lessons and playing songwriter rounds and handing out my demos to wherever and just doing little odd jobs. I had to another job where I like dressed up as a character for like little kids birthday parties. Like for two seconds I had that.

What was the character?

Well, it was Hannah Montana, actually, but the next. Yeah, because my friend worked for the company and she was like, look, you can be Ariel and Cinderella and it's like, cool. You get paid like 100 bucks and like, it's easy. And I feel like a lot of.

People have done this. By the way, I think Lainey Wilson was a Hannah impersonator.

Really?

I think that's like a thing that.

Well, that was just people coming up.

In country have done.

That's so weird. I mean, yeah, that was just the character that I got asked for that day from that specific party. But, you know, Tinkerbell, like Ariel, Snow White or whatever. And then the next one that they called me for, they were like, yeah, we gotta. There's an industry birthday party down at the Palm restaurant and they need a French maid to come deliver balloons to the birthday boy. And I was like, meh. I think that's where I draw the Line. So that was it. Then I just went full tilt into songwriting.

And the idea always was to be a performer. Like, songwriting was great and helped you pay the bills well.

But, like, growing up, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, performer, singer, whatever. And then when I moved to Nashville and actually got the chance to become a staff writer for Warner Chapel, which means I would, like, show up and write several times a week with just being paired with different writers that I had never met before, and we would, you know, create songs and turn them in for them to be potentially cut by other artists, you know, And I had so much fun doing that that I was like, forget being a performer. Like, that is too public facing. And actually, I fell in love with songwriting even more in that way as a. I was like, I can't believe I get to sit on a couch and, like, take ideas from my brain and make them into something and, like, get paid for that. That's insane.

Yeah, it's hard to give that up. It's a nice gig.

Totally.

I'm like, so, yeah, I mean, you know, so for a while, I was like, I'm not sure if I want to do the whole artist thing, you know, And I would only want to do it if it was, like, if it felt totally right and, like, the songs were right and I could really be me. Like, I'm not. I'm just not. It's not worth it to me to, like, potentially be shaped into something else just for the sake of being an artist. Like, I'm not going to do that. You know, I would want it to be, like, authentically me, you know? And so, you know, years pass, I write hundreds of songs, like, having. Having a great time, and I get approached by a label asking if I want a deal, and it just didn't feel right. I turned them down. And I was like, I don't have the songs yet. If I was gonna have, you know, something to say, I don't think I have that yet. And so I think another. Maybe, like a year went by, and I ended up meeting or working with Shane McEnally and Luke Laird, and we started writing all these songs, and I was like, okay. I noticed myself going, okay, I don't want to turn this song in for another artist. I think this one's for me. And that's when I started noticing, like, oh, I think maybe I'm saving songs for an album. Maybe I do want to do that. So, long story short, I ended up signing the record deal. And, yeah, I already had, like, half of same trailer different park written. So, you know, it wasn't like they were signing someone that didn't know what they wanted to do. It was like I already had that and so, you know, I kind of got the go ahead to just finish the record the way I wanted and that was that.

And there are two parts to that story of your first album. One is that it was a huge success, which again, as you've said with every, you don't know how it's gonna go, right? And then it charts, goes to number one and does all the things it did. And also that you had even at your young age and as a first time artist, the courage, I guess, to say, no, this is the song we're gonna put out, this is the album we're gonna put out. Despite maybe what some people in Nashville were telling you, right? What was the message you were getting from the label?

Well, it's a funny thing, right? Like artists and labels historically have always had a rub. And I think it's because like an artist wants to say what they want to say and a label's bottom concern is like money. It's monetary, you know, monetary. So I think they can work hand in hand, but it's, it can be tough. But yeah, like, you know, I just think their labels are looking at, it's kind of a fear based mentality sometimes because they're like, well, this certain thing has worked before, but this new thing is coming along and we don't know if we put all of our money into this thing, you know, and it doesn't work. We've like lost all this money. We already know this is going to work. So why don't we just create a few of those, a few extras of these things because it's a formula that's worked before. But it's like, you know, we all the, you know, the game changers that came along, Willie Nelson or like whoever, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton, it's like they were disruptors and then they became the new normal because they were given a chance to too. So I think, you know, yeah, there's, it's just an interesting conundrum there. But, but yeah, I was met with some resistance, like, you know, some fear when I said, okay, I want Merry Go Round to be my first single. This is what I want to say to the world first. And okay, let's do this. You know, it was kind of like, you know, this, this is depressing. It's. It's not going to do well for a first time like a female in country. It's this, this, this, this. So it's not going to work. It's going to go down in flames, you know, But I'm just like, okay, well, if I am going to go down in flames, I'd rather it be wholeheartedly for something that I truly believe in, you know? And then I know, okay, well, this wasn't meant for me, but I didn't alter myself or change myself to try to get popular and always have something that's the real me, like, holding back, you know, I was like, that sounds like hell. Because then there just always this version that you're kind of waiting to drop on people, but they've already gotten used to this other watered down version of you. And I'm like, that's not. I'm not doing that. Like, I'd rather just like, I'll just go work somewhere else, you know, just do something else.

It's true, and I get that. But it does take guts on your first album because that could be the end if it doesn't work out.

I don't know why that didn't occur to me. It's like, no, this is gonna work.

But yeah.

And then it goes on to win Grammy Song of the Year and it's like, okay, that internal compass means something now.

You can trust yourself. You were right about that.

Yeah. And it's like, I may not always get it right, but all I can do is know what feels right for me, you know?

So, yeah, I feel like Merry Go Round too is a good metaphor for almost your entire approach to country music, at least, which is you're not sort of going along with the popular narrative or the story. So you're telling a small town story, but it's not just Friday Night Lights and all the good parts. You say, let's be real about it.

Right Again, it's the human experience. It's maybe the things someone doesn't really want to talk about or whatever, but it's something we're all experiencing.

So when the reception was as great as it was, when it did sell as well as it did when you did get the Grammy, what did that feel like for you as a first time artist?

Oh, my gosh, it was life changing. Seriously. It was like. I don't even know if I can comprehend what this means. It was really. It just felt really great to be validated for something that made me really feel so good, like to create, you know? And I knew that I wasn't giving up anything. I could sleep at night going, I'm really proud of what I made. This is me, you know, and you.

Know that people like it now. And you can keep doing it, doing it your way.

It essentially, I think, more than anything, you know, awards are awards, opinions are opinions. But, like, nothing for nothing. Something like that does. It does give you creative freedom, you know, it, like, gives you the freedom to say, like, this is me and this is what I'm doing, and this. It worked, so back off.

You know, I know what I'm doing here.

Like, this is.

Yeah, yeah.

By the way, I'm sure the same people who were telling you, you can't do this the first time were saying, that was great. We knew it all along.

Of course, it's.

Look, do it again on your next one.

Oh, we did it.

It's.

We did it, you know, and you're.

Like, and your next album's a hit again, no pageant material. And then it feels like to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that Golden Hour just took things to a totally different level, in part because it won Album of the Year. Album of the Year, not just country Album of the Year. Grammys decided it was the best thing anybody put out that year. Was that a shocker?

Oh, my God, yes.

It looked like it was. When they announced your name.

Yeah, my eye, like, closed.

It did a weird. I don't know what happened there, but. But, yeah, what the hell? Like, I mean, that is a huge statement. And again, it's like, I accept that with, like, so much gratitude, but also a lot. Like, it's humbling. It's like, you know, everyone in that category made bomb albums that were like, you know, and it's just. It's one opinion. I mean, it's a conglomeration of a lot of people's opinions, but it's like, music is so subjective. It's so relative to the listener that it's like, it's hard to say this thing is better than this thing. It's just different, you know, but to have, like, something that you put your entire heart into, like, you know, given that by peers and, you know, industry people or fans or whatever, you're just like, okay, that's. I mean, it's really special, you know? So. Yeah.

Did you. After Golden Hour and the Grammy win for Best Album, did you feel your life changing? Not necessarily even professionally, but personally, did things feel different to you in terms of fitting and all the rest?

It got a lot busier. It was definitely a total life changer. I mean, yeah, it totally blew my mind, but, yeah.

And Then, you know, life changes.

Like, you know, you're on a high from that. You're going through a divorce. Like, you know, somewhat shortly after that. It's life is duality. It's highs, it's lows, it's all the things you know.

Yeah, I've heard you talk about that. Is it hard? I've always wondered this about anybody who writes a song in a certain moment in time. Your fans want to hear the song when you play it in concert, but it's about this other thing that's not there anymore. Is that difficult?

It can be, yeah.

It can be hard. Sometimes you just have to go somewhere else or also just know that it is someone else's story now. Like, it's something that they're attaching their mental pictures to. And also, like, I'll stand behind any song saying that it was true in the moment. And it obviously made a big enough impact on me to write about it at a certain point. So it's real. It's a real emotion. And again, everything has seasons. So I'm thankful to have beautiful little chapters of little scrapbooks of moments.

And how do you feel in this chapter right now of your life, the Deeper well chapter?

Honestly, I feel really good. I feel really grounded. I feel like. I just feel. It's hard to explain. I mean, I'm busy and I'm tired, all that. But I feel like I'm where I need to be, you know, I feel grateful.

Well, it's a beautiful, beautiful album.

Thank you.

People are gonna love it.

I hope so.

Thank you so much for doing this. It was so fun.

Thank you.

And we'll go out and smell some of those smells.

Let's go do it.

[Willie Geist]

So after our conversation inside Electric Lady Studios, Casey and I hopped up and went for a little stroll around Washington Square Park. It's an area she got to know very well when she was writing the album. She said she drew inspiration from the sights, the sounds, and, yes, the smells of New York City.

[Casey Musgraves]

So these are the streets you would walk when you were dreaming up this album.

Yeah. It's so nice to have like all this life kind of at your fingertips to be able to, like, take a break, clear your mind, go get a cup of coffee, like absorb every culture imaginable in a 30 second walk, you know, it's inspiring. And I guess I don't know if they've closed it, but this was a Goodwill.

Oh, yeah.

And it was really fun. One day we were kind of bored and needed a little break from the.

Studio on all the recordings.

So, like, we decided to walk next door to goodwill, give ourselves 10 minutes and. $10. You had 10 minutes to spend $10 on something that you had to wear.

The rest of the day.

I love that.

Like, had to.

That's a great challenge.

So went in, and I think it took me about seven minutes. I spent $5 on this, like, little white cotton dress, and I ended up wearing it in the studio and recording.

The song Heaven Is.

Like, really? It was just a stupid, fun, like, wow.

For five bucks, five dollars. Oh, that's so fun.

Yeah.

That's also very New York. Right? Hop in. See what you can find.

Yeah, it's just like. It was just. It was just really fun and stupid. But, yeah, it's. What a great. What an inspiring area.

You know, they're talking about this. The songwriters that have come through here, you know.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

Incredible.

It's. It's. It's so. Just rich with history. This. This whole. This whole area. I mean, and not just songwriters and storytellers, but, you know, poets.

Yeah. Yeah. There's that era of, like, Joan Baez and Bob Dylan and what was going on down there in the 60s, you know?

Yeah. First it was, like, beatnik era, and then, you know, the whole folk movement of the 60s. I bet it was just, like, such.

An electric time to be here.

Yes.

Yeah, that's.

What's the line. In Tangled up and Blue. There was music in the cafes at night and revolution in the Air, you know?

So good.

Isn't that amazing?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I love that a lot of these places are still here, too. Like, Cafe Wa.

Yeah.

And I don't know, just so fun. One of my favorite things to do in town is, like, whenever we'd come and stay here and record is, like, hitting some of the comedy shows at night. We had some really fun nights.

Yeah, that's the Comedy Cellar right up here.

Comedy Cellar. There's always some, like, some big people kind of roll through there, you know?

Sure. Oh, yeah.

No, that's really fun.

That's a big spot. Could you ever see yourself in New York? I mean, you're a Texas and Nashville girl, but.

Right? Yeah, I get on Zillow and Dream. Yeah. I get on there and act a little bit of a fool at night, you know, see what I can see.

But I'm glad I'm not alone in that. We all dream on Zillow.

I know, right? Like, why is it so addicting to just. You're just automatically imagining your life in, like, Munich? I Don't know. For no reason, you're like, this makes sense, right?

Checking the monthly payment. If I put this down, maybe I can do it.

Yeah. If, like, I just sell every single thing I've ever owned, then I can do this. Guys.

A couple years.

Yeah. No, it's fun. I mean, I'm also really, really inspired by, like, the Hudson Valley and that area up there.

So I see a little New York in your future. I'm just putting it out there in the universe.

I'm not. Not down, but I do love Nashville. And I don't know, for me, it's like the community is irreplaceable. So it's. I have friends that I've had for, you know, going on 15 years now, and I just love them so much. And, you know, you can't. What do they say? You can't make old friends.

That's right.

I believe that. So.

That's right.

There's that.

So this is the park, Washington Square park, you were talking about before.

It's in the summer, though. It's such a vibe at this park.

Oh, yeah. Music. Yeah. Rollerblading.

I know.

All of it.

Some illegal activities.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

It's sort of like, you know, encouraged, you know, this is the place. Place to come if you need purchase.

Right.

Yeah, I know.

I was really wanting to do a concert here in the park, like under the arch or something.

Yeah.

But the. The police, like. Because it's. They can't really, like, barricade it off, and it's just open to the homeless, like.

Yeah, yeah.

They said it's, like, hard.

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, I don't know if I've seen a show here.

It must not. No, I kind of. I was kind of thinking, like, a smaller scale, live in Central park vibe, you know, and you could, like, project onto the arch. It could look really beautiful, but I don't know.

I know if it'll be possible.

NYPD tends not to be super flexible.

Yeah, totally.

Well, or I was, like, the stage could go, like, on top of this.

Fountain, you know, in the realm.

Yeah. Oh, my God. That'd be amazing.

Could be kind of cool, right? What is.

There's a pigeon, man.

Really?

He's just holding the pigeons. Put some on his shoulder.

What is she selling?

Crochet.

Crochet bouquets.

If there was, like, a palm reader.

We should. We should get one.

Amazing. Yeah. The wind.

[Willie Geist]

Oh, look at that.

[Casey Musgraves]

Life is lifing.

Oh, yeah. It's a lively, lively park. Here it is. That's why we love it. Yeah, it's. It's like quintessential New York. It's so. I mean, to have this, like, right around the block from where you're working is just like. Just pop in here and you're just.

Like, absorbing all this life.

It's just great.

So you would come in here and just kind of feel New York City.

Yes. Feel the city. Just see what's going on. Because you can kind of get into a little bit of like a. Like, tunnel vision when you're in the studio. You know, you're working long hours and you're really, like. You're, like, diving deep into this vision and you're having so much fun. But sometimes you gotta remind yourself to, like, okay, let's, like.

Let's go out here and see what's.

Going on, you know? Yeah.

So you'd pick things up and you'd see somebody or hear something and maybe sprinkle it into a lyric.

Not even intentionally. Well, actually, there was one song that.

Talked about walking past the skaters in Washington Square.

That one didn't make it on the.

Record, but maybe it'll come out as a point.

Let's keep that.

Yeah, yeah.

Bonus track.

Yeah. But especially, like, in the spring and summer, I feel like this park is, like, so alive and. I don't know, it's just kind of a common ground of, like. It's just everyone from all walks of life just congregating together and. I don't know, there's something cool about that, you know?

For sure.

Common denominator.

For sure. Now, this. The smells you described earlier, I picked up one of them on the way in. Yeah, but we're still working on pizza.

And, you know, marijuana. I think I caught that. Okay.

When we came in.

Yeah. It's a great mix of wholesome and illegal activities here in Washington Square Park.

I feel like in the summer, too, those smells come out a little.

Oh, they kind of. They just. Yeah, they just. That is one thing. New York City presents an aroma, an array of aromas. Sometimes it does.

It does.

But. Gotta love it, though, actually. Oh, my gosh. We have this. This really funny footage. We came here just to get a break, and there was a guy with, like, a pet duck here. And it was like. It was like this big old. Maybe it's a goose or something, but it totally, like, did not like me, like, getting near it.

And it.

It definitely bit me in the cheek. And I was like, okay, I got bit. Bit on the cheek or something.

And kiss.

I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what happened there.

Welcome to New York.

Yeah. Yeah. Welcome to New York.

All right. I think we did the full lap.

I think we did do the full lap. Yeah. Did we leave? I know.

Wow.

I know.

I just love that, like, anything goes.

Yeah.

Anything goes here.

And people don't even, like, turn their head. They're like, yeah, it's New York. I think do and look however you want.

Totally. I think that's one thing that's really inspiring to me about New York City is that no matter how you feel, you're like, surely I'm not the only.

Person that's feeling this way.

That's right.

Like, I can't be the saddest person in New York.

And that's also the fact that you walk everywhere, you get to feel, oh, my gosh.

Yes. It's like, oh, my God, look in their eyes. Yes. It's so much humanity stacked on top of each other.

You're not in a car stuck on, you know, 65 or 40.

Right.

You're out here with people.

Totally. I. I know. It's. It's a good place for a songwriter to be. I feel.

Well, you crushed it.

Well, thanks.

[Willie Geist]

Crushed it.

[Casey Musgraves]

I'm glad you like it.

It was very fun to make.

Just, you know, you've got a big. I told you, my daughter's 16. You've got a big, you know this already. But demo. Like a nanny.

Yeah.

Because you are. Because you poke authority and you don't, like, fit the conventional.

Yeah.

You know what country's always supposed to be about.

Sure.

Right.

Yeah.

Cut off jean shorts and all that stuff.

Yeah.

No, actually, you know.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I think they like that sort of rebellious side as well.

They like that. And then they're like, their grandparents can.

Also get down with my.

[Willie Geist]

For sure.

[Casey Musgraves]

My music, for sure.

It's. It's not. It's not so avant garde that they can't exactly. They can't love it too, that now you're smart.

You got all the demos covered.

That's funny.

Speaking of grandmothers, we didn't talk about how much of an impact your grandmother had in your career.

Oh, my gosh. Hey.

Well, she was my original booking agent.

Yeah.

She is a firecracker. She just turned 86 years old. She was my date to the Grammys. Yeah. She is. She larger than life personality, loves sparkle. Also is very conservative and doesn't like my choice of words most times, but has been a big figure in my life for sure.

Did she really cry when you Pierced your nose, like you said.

Yeah. I mean, I still hear about it. Like, she'll just be like, you got something in there, you know? Oh, growl. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Nana, what does she think about all this? Having watched you since you were a baby singing into that karaoke machine?

I mean, she, like, she had such a big part in making things happen. She's very proud, you know, And, I mean, they would, like, she and my grandparent, my grandpa would haul me in the minivan, like, to across states to sing, you know, this or that. They would. Would help pay for singing lessons. Like, just helped my parents out a lot. And, yeah, they made a lot of things possible for us, for sure.

They must be incredibly proud.

Oh, my God.

Totally.

I talked to my grandpa, literally, before sitting down with you.

Oh, did you?

Yep. And he was just telling me how much fun my grandma had at the.

Grammys and, like, how much it meant.

To her, like, that she got to come.

Well, you're nice to share.

Sweet.

It's meant to be shared, for sure.

Totally agree.

[Willie Geist]

My big thanks to Casey for a great conversation. Her latest album, deeper well, comes out on March 15th.

[Casey Musgraves]

You hear that?

[Willie Geist]

Of course, wherever you get your music. And tickets go on sale soon for her world tour beginning in April, swinging.

[Casey Musgraves]

Through the United States starting in September.

[Willie Geist]

My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of our conversation conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so.

[Casey Musgraves]

You never miss an episode.

[Willie Geist]

And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next.

[Casey Musgraves]

Week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

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