Josh Brolin on Craft Over Fame, the Cost of Honesty, and His Inner Switch

Summary

Podcast Summary: Josh Brolin on Craft Over Fame, the Cost of Honesty, and His Inner Switch

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist | December 14, 2025
Guest: Josh Brolin
Host: Willie Geist
Theme: An introspective conversation with Josh Brolin covering his unconventional journey as an actor, the tension between craft and celebrity, the cost (and value) of honesty, embracing discomfort, and personal philosophies on work, family, and what it means to be grounded.

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Episode Overview

Willie Geist sits down with Josh Brolin in the Chelsea Hotel’s basement restaurant in New York City to discuss the arc of Brolin’s remarkable acting career, from an unlikely start with The Goonies through wilderness years, to breakout roles in No Country for Old Men, Milk, and as Thanos in the Marvel universe. Brolin opens up about the joy and challenge of inhabiting dark and complex characters, the pitfalls and illusions of fame, balancing his public life with privacy, and writing his deeply personal memoir. The conversation is candid, occasionally raw, and full of wisdom about art, identity, and the necessity of discomfort in personal growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Playing Monsignor Wicks in Wake Up, Dead Man

• Character Insight: Brolin plays a demagogic preacher who intentionally tries to shrink his already dwindling flock as a test of the human spirit, appreciating the labyrinthine nature of Rian Johnson’s script.

  “He feels that when he does his little sermons, if he doesn't get somebody to walk out, that he's not challenging the standard of the human being well enough.” (05:23)

• Script Quality: Brolin gushes about Rian Johnson’s writing, describing it as layered and unpredictable.

  “It's rare that you read a script and you go, wow, it's like reading a great book. ... I thought I had the answer and I was wrong.” (07:33)

• Performing for Peers: Giving performances in front of actors he admires is both innervating and unnerving, sparking self-doubt and excitement.

  “Can I pull this off? … You know what I mean? And they're all looking at me like, oh, look at Josh. Try and go. ... But I like that. I liked the challenge." (09:16)

• Personal Confrontation: Playing Wicks involved confronting and channeling uncomfortable aspects of his own psyche.

  “He gets into a rage ... that's an ugly that I went, whoa. ... And it was appropriate for the movie. I'm glad that it's there.” (10:23-10:59)

2. On Running Man and Typcasting

• Working with Edgar Wright: The project appealed because of director Edgar Wright, not the franchise itself.

  “You look at the filmmaker and you go, do I want to be involved in a cover song? ... When he nails it, it's great.” (13:04)

• Year of Intensity: After several consecutive intense roles, Brolin questions if he's being typecast as the “bad guy,” expressing a desire to break type.

  “I did five movies back to back, and I don't want to repeat it. ... I'm gonna go do a frickin rom com.” (14:15-14:37)

3. On Career Identity & Genre Fluidity

• Niche-lessness: Brolin reflects on the freedom of never being typecast, able to move between genres (“Maybe not a rom com, but something… And people go, oh, yeah, he's just doing whatever”). (15:21)

4. Taking Weapons for the Craft, Not the Awards

• Unexpected Opportunity: Brolin only landed his role in Weapons after Pedro Pascal became unavailable, highlighting the randomness of Hollywood casting. He was initially reluctant due to the dark subject matter but was drawn in by director Zach’s personal grief-fueled vision.

  “I, you know, you hear the story and it's these kids disappearing. And I go, I don't want to know if I want to get into that. ... Then people started seeing it and going, oh, it's not just that. It's actually multi layered.” (18:04)

• Avoiding Award Chasing: Brolin resents the notion of choosing roles for Oscar bait. He values meaningful craft and collaboration above pursuit of trophies.

  “When people show up and they're like, you know, dude, this is gonna be your Academy Award, you're like, ah, get the f— out of my house.” (19:48)

5. Staying Grounded Amid Fame

• Fear of Believing the Hype: Brolin stays clear of celebrity bubbles out of fear of losing touch with authentic life.

  “If you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race and you're just living this .001% life, how is that truthful?” (20:51)

• Practical Example: He relishes walking anonymously in New York, seeing himself as part of the crowd.

  “If you walk down the street, especially in New York ... they're like, yo, man. ... And you're like, right on. And that's it.” (22:32)

• Childhood Influence: Describes a “rough and tumble” upbringing with parents who shunned Hollywood’s glitz, his mother preferring the company of colorful, flawed country musicians and outsiders.

  “My mom was always in the cauldron of really interesting behavioral [people].” (27:21)

• Not Seeking Acting Early: As a teen, acting wasn’t on his radar—he stumbled into it via elective theater class, only later faking a résumé to get auditions.

  “There's nobody who ever would have thought that I were to become an actor, ever. ... I had an elective. … I took the theater class … and there was something that switched in me.” (28:47-29:16)

6. Long Road to 'Overnight' Success

• Years in the Wilderness: After Goonies, Brolin didn’t become an instant star. He weathered decades of sporadic work, struggling financially, relying on stock trading for income, and constantly hustling for the next gig.

  “I never knew for 22 years or something. I never knew when I was doing a job what that next job was going to be, ever.” (33:56)

• Not Chasing Fame: He offers advice based on craft, not celebrity, and observes few are interested in “the work.”

  “I'm the wrong guy to talk to anyway.” (36:07)

7. Breakthrough and Integrity Post-No Country for Old Men

• Landing the Role: Brolin recalls how the film almost didn’t happen and reflects on its unexpected success.

  “There was nothing that suggested that the movie was going to do well. ... Over and over and over again, ... you kind of expect it to go out and a few people see it and that's it. And then that movie became something different.” (36:46)

• Choosing Projects: He consistently chooses interesting filmmakers and roles over big paychecks, even after his breakthrough.

  “I would much rather be okay in a great movie than be great in an okay movie.” (39:32)

8. On Friendship, Outsiders, and Filmmaker Eccentricity

• Kinship With Outsiders: Brolin finds comfort and belonging among Hollywood’s “misfits,” relating them back to his youth with the CeDo Rats and outsider friends.

  “There's no difference between Wilmo when I was growing up and Ethan Cohen. Except Ethan does very well for himself.” (40:41)

• Ethan Coen Anecdote: Ethan once brought a book to their dinner for two—“He can't bring a book to a dinner with only one other person ... but with him, I just kind of like, aw, you weirdo.” (41:01)

9. On Thanos and Marvel Stardom

• Surprise & Satisfaction: Playing Thanos felt anonymous (thanks to CGI/chin prosthetics) yet deeply satisfying due to the Russo brothers’ direction and “cinephile” references. The process was collaborative and creatively rewarding.

  “I'm playing Thanos. I'm in a onesie ... and then [Joe Russo's] coming up and he's like, remember that thing in Scarface ... Do that.” (44:11)

• Zero Interest in Franchise Grind: Brolin turned down offers to sign on for a decade, preferring a limited commitment to avoid personal and creative burnout.

  “I don't want to do it for 10 years. I don't want to do a play for two years... I'm too tweaky. I want to go in, totally saturate and immerse yourself and just give it your all. And then go back to real life and go home.” (47:08)

10. Parenthood and Its Humbling Presence

• Fatherhood Keeps Him Grounded: His children (ages 4 to 37) ensure he never forgets what matters and keep him humble.

  “You can't help but be regrounded. You can't help but be humbled. You know, if anybody knows anything about parenting, it's that you'll never get it right.” (48:18)

11. Acting: A Skill Set, Not an Art

• View of Acting: Brolin distinguishes acting from pure art, placing it as a skill set dependent on others' art (writing, directing, music).

  “It's a craft, you know, and it's a skill set. I don't know if it's an art. ... You're using somebody else's art and trying to simulate it in a way that ... serves the story.” (49:40)

• On Mixing It Up: Encourages actors to push beyond typecasting, serving “the human condition” rather than comfort or public expectation.

  “Keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche. ... You're either part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster. That is entertaining.” (52:10)

12. Writing the Memoir: The Cost of Honesty

• Book’s Reception and Rawness: Writing was “super uncomfortable,” more about exposing truths than catharsis. He’s proudest of praise from real writers, less concerned with pleasing the public or fitting celebrity expectations.

  “It was super uncomfortable. ... It's very raw, very naked, very personal.” (53:10)
  “I didn't get the Pulitzer for that book. ... But then I had former, former poet laureates call me ... ‘this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years.’ Which meant everything to me. A true writer calling ... that's ... better than it should be.” (56:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On script surprises:
  “I thought that I had the answer and I was wrong. And that doesn't happen ... it was really satisfying to be wrong, to be just a half a step behind where he was manipulating me in the script.” (07:33)
• On honesty in acting:
  “There's an ugly [part] that I went, whoa ... and it was appropriate for the movie ... I don't know if I want to see it again.” (10:33)
• On fame:
  “If you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race … how is that truthful?...That's my feeling.” (20:51)
• On peer admiration:
  “[Robert] Downey likes to keep the temperature at 58° [on set]. ... Everybody's sitting, waiting to do their scenes like this.” (45:34)
• On acting vs. art:
  “It's a skill set. ... There's magic in that skill set that can happen. ... But you're using somebody else's art.” (49:40)
• On discomfort and growth:
  “Keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche ... You're either part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster that is entertaining.” (52:08)
• On writing and recognition:
  "I had former, former poet laureates call me ... 'this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years.' Which meant everything to me. A true writer calling me and saying, kudos, yeah, that's ... better than it should be." (56:58)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |---|---| | 03:46-05:23 | Introduction to Knives Out role, Monsignor Wicks | | 06:25-08:52 | Rian Johnson’s writing, script unpredictability | | 09:10-11:00 | Challenges of big, bombastic performances; personal discomfort with expressing rage | | 13:04-14:37 | Running Man, Edgar Wright, avoiding "bad guy" typecast | | 18:04-20:21 | Weapons casting, value of craft vs. awards | | 20:51-22:32 | Philosophy on fame, staying grounded, living "regular" life | | 27:21-28:05 | Upbringing, mother’s relationship to fame, grounding influences | | 28:42-31:35 | Accidental entry into acting, fake résumé, the switch during first class | | 31:50-33:09 | Goonies success not translating to stardom, early career struggles | | 33:56-36:46 | Two decades of career uncertainty, trading stocks, work over fame | | 36:46-39:19 | No Country for Old Men breakthrough, choosing quality over paydays | | 40:41-41:01 | Finding belonging among Hollywood outsiders, Ethan Coen book anecdote | | 44:05-47:08 | Marvel/Thanos experience, creative process, avoiding long franchise commitments | | 48:18-49:20 | Parenting, humility, personal grounding | | 49:40-50:34 | Acting as craft/skill, not pure art | | 52:05-52:37 | Challenging public expectations, the value of reinvention | | 53:10-56:58 | Memoir writing, discomfort of honesty, seeking real recognition |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Josh Brolin’s journey is one of resilience, self-examination, and putting artistry above celebrity.
• He relates stories with humor and blunt honesty, wary of hype, proud of his blue-collar approach to work.
• Brolin’s career choices are governed by interest, integrity, and creative collaboration rather than calculated fame.
• He believes acting is a skill—transcendent moments arise from honest, grounded living, not from building a celebrity persona.
• Parenthood, discomfort, and friendships with “outsiders” are continuous sources of humility and inspiration.

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This summary highlights the key topics and moments in the episode, capturing Josh Brolin’s candid, reflective tone and the depth of conversation around art, honesty, and living an authentic creative life.

Transcript

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[Josh Brolin]

Before the.

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[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you this week with Josh Brolin. What a career he has had. From Goonies in 1985 when he was 17 years old, all the way up into his latest. It's the third of the Knives out movies. The director and writer Rian Johnson puts together these incredible whodunit with great cast, great stories. This one is called Wake Up, Dead Man, A Knives Out Mystery. In it, Josh Brolin plays Monsignor Wicks, kind of a shady pastor leading a small church that's getting smaller by the day. I'll let him explain the character and the story a little more without giving too much away. Those movies are always so much fun. Just a great guy to hang out with. We got together in the basement restaurant of the Chelsea Hotel in New York City, a place he's been coming since the 1980s, when it was a little shadier itself. Now he just likes to come back. It's familiar. He knows the place. He knows the people. He likes walking around the neighborhood. So we sat down in the restaurant of the Chelsea Hotel and talked through his career. Of course, his dad is James Brolin, the famous actor. But as you'll hear, Josh had no designs on becoming an actor. In fact, he was running around with a crew in the Montecito, Santa Barbara, California area called the Cedo Rats. They surfed, they skateboarded. Some of them did much worse, as you'll hear. And it wasn't until he Took a theater class that he realized, oh, this could be fun. And at 17, he auditioned for and got that role in the Goonies. Big hit. It's a classic to this day, but it didn't really launch his career. He was kind of in the wilderness here for 20 some years. And then a movie in 2007, no country for Old Men, great movie, great part for Broland. Launched him into movies like W. American Gangster and Milk in a performance there that earned him an Academy Award nomination. Then he plays Thanos in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You know his resume. I won't bore you with it. This year alone, he's doing. Shooting another Dune movie right now. He was in the Running Man. He was in Weapons. He's just been super, super busy with these really intense movies and kind of jokes that he needs to peel off and do a rom com now. So great talk about his career and also a lot of big picture stuff about what it means to be a celebrity and how he thinks about all that. So sit back, relax, and enjoy right now. Josh Brolin on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Thanks for doing this, man.

[Josh Brolin]

Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, man. I really appreciate it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I'm excited to talk to you because there's so much to talk to you about.

[Josh Brolin]

I mean, this year, professionally, personally.

[Willie Geist]

Well, both, Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I mean, we'll see how dark you want to get here, but sit back.

[Josh Brolin]

In my lounge chair, my chaise lounge.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Let's just do professional for the moment with that. I told you I saw Weapons. I'm the last person on Earth to see it because everyone loves it and talks about it.

[Josh Brolin]

A lot of that is happening now. People are like, I didn't see it for. And a lot of people saw it. So you're not like, I wish you had seen it then. And then maybe it could have been successful, but it was successful.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Well, I continued that last night and then couldn't sleep all night. So thanks for that. We'll talk about that.

[Josh Brolin]

No, you weren't that scared. Did you laugh more? Were you actually scared, I'm curious, of your reaction.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

There was humor in it, which is part of why I really liked it.

[Josh Brolin]

Me, too.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But it was mostly intense. Had all the good things of a thriller.

[Josh Brolin]

And Amy, we mentioned Amy being so good.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Running Man's coming out this weekend. As we sit here, it's two days away. And then coming up here, the third Knives out mystery. Wake up, dead man. So let's start there at the end. Your character, Monsignor Wicks, did you see it? I did. Oh, I Did. Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Did you see it in a theater? Did you see it?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

No, I watched it, but I watched it on a big screen at home.

[Josh Brolin]

Oh, good.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

So it wasn't on the phone, which I don't like watching. That's right. That rich.

[Josh Brolin]

I forgot.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I mean, I went to Best Buy and got a TV. It wasn't that, you know, this great 77 inch screen, like a screening room, but. So tell me about Monsignor Wicks, who this guy is this demagogue, this guy who sort of preaches to his flock of 10, 15 people.

[Josh Brolin]

He's a guy, I have to remember, he's a guy who has a small congregation that he's trying to forcefully shrink. He feels that when he does his little sermons, if he doesn't get somebody to walk out, that he's not challenging the standard of the human being well enough. And it's an interesting. It's funny because when I was doing Weapons, I was really not that I was focused on. I knew I was going to do Knives out right after Weapons. And then it was Running man after that, even though Running Man's coming out before. And I was really working on the Knives out stuff, the big speeches during Weapons. And I remember Zach saying, can you please just focus on the movie, on our movie, which was a great movie, which turned out to be a really amazing movie. But I just thought the writing in Knives out was incredible. He's an incredible writer.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah. Ryan Johnson.

[Josh Brolin]

Ryan Johnson and the stuff that I had with Josh o' Connor outside of the church and then the speeches in the church. Yeah, It's a labyrinth. It's a great kind of labyrinth and story that I thought that I had to read very slowly in order to understand. And that doesn't happen very often.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Without giving anything away, your sermons are great, but the moment we really meet you is when you first sit and start talking about. Give a confession for the ages, let's just put it that way. It's one of the funniest scenes I've seen in a long time.

[Josh Brolin]

Good. I'm glad you're coming.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You didn't really see it coming.

[Josh Brolin]

It's amazing. No, but it's great. It's great because he's poking at him. He's like, you know, he doesn't like this kid. So he's like, hey, will you take my confession? It challenges. It's great whether it was me, me or anybody else in that role. It's. It's so well written that it would have been great with anyone doing it. But I'm glad that he chose me.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You talk about the labyrinth of these Knives out stories, which they always are. When you get the script for a movie like this, do you get the full story? In other words, do you know where this thing's headed while you're in it?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. But you forget, or you force yourself to forget, or I do, or I'm good at forgetting or something like that. One of the above, because I read it, and it was one of the few scripts that I. You know, you read a lot of scripts, and even if a script is good, you go, yeah, I get what this is, you know, and then it's gonna be up to the filmmaker to make it interesting or have an interesting slant on it or whatever. But there's. It's rare that you read a script and you go, wow, it's like reading a great book. You go, I didn't expect that. And that just blew me away. But reading that script, I thought that I had the answer and I was wrong. And then I thought that I had the answ again, and I was wrong. And that doesn't happen. You know what I mean? And I don't know how many mysteries I've read, you know, back in the day, but it was really satisfying to be wrong, to be just a half a step behind where he was manipulating me in the script. So, yeah, to be involved in that. And I'd seen the other two. I loved the first one. I liked the second one. And this one, I thought kind of went back to a darker, more not melancholic, but just kind of morbid, gothic vibe? And I like that.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I had the same thought that the second one got a little different. And then this is back to. There's a little more weight to it. It feels like. Is it fun for you, as an actor who's played every kind of character, to do someone that bombastic, that kind of demagoguery where you know you're gonna get a big speech and you can just go hard.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. But personally, like, if I'm really honest, it's doing the speech for who I'm doing it for.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Josh Brolin]

Glenn Close, who I know from Brothers, who I adore. Mila Kunis, who I know from before Renner, who I've known for a long time. I remember when he, like, basically first came on the scene, and I got all excited that a great new actor had kind of like, the Town and Hurt Locker and all that kind of stuff. So all these people that I kind of know, which makes it that much more innervating, you Know, Unnerving.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And you're like, can I pull this off? Is it. You know what I mean? And they're all looking at me like, oh, look at Josh. Try and go. You know what I mean? But I like that. I liked the challenge of that. The thing that I get to resort to with, with Ryan is that it's great dialogue. And it scared me. I was like, am I good enough for this? You know what I mean? Which I didn't mind being in that mindset. I was leave living up to a challenge, at least in my head, that I wasn't sure I could pull off. So that was fun. And it is fun. To answer your question, it is fun. I have a tough time selfishly watching that movie.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Interesting.

[Josh Brolin]

Because he gets into a rage.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

In that movie. For moments that I. That I didn't expected, but I don't like watching.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh, interesting.

[Josh Brolin]

For personal reasons of like a guy who, as an actor, you go, oh, look at me go. You know what I mean? And I don't think that I'm way past that, but I go, oh, that's appropriate for what he's doing. And then, oh, you're made of that.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Like that came from a place that you don't love.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Inside yourself.

[Josh Brolin]

Exactly. So I was very uncomfortable watching it. I liked the movie, but I don't. I don't. I don't know if I want to see it again.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Is that not, though part of being an actor, to find it somewhere, even.

[Josh Brolin]

If you don't never experience that.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh, interesting.

[Josh Brolin]

I've never experienced that. I've experienced other things where you're like, oh, I tapped into an emotional place and I'm happy that I was able to do that. Maybe I didn't think I could do it, but that was a certain emotion that I didn't particularly love.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Like a little ugliness you saw there.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And ugly is okay. But that was an ugly that I went, whoa.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And it was appropriate. It's appropriate for the movie. I'm glad that it's there.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Well, it's. You're great. I mean, it's.

[Josh Brolin]

Thanks, man.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

From that first scene. The first scene is fun. The confession. I can't wait for people to see it. Let's talk Running Man 2.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

So I grew up not Running Man 2. Running Man. Also. Also, I grew up on the first one 87. Schwarzenegger. Richard Dawson, based on a Stephen.

[Josh Brolin]

That was a hybrid of those two movies. I mean, those two characters. Richard Dawson.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Right.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

So when you heard about the Idea for this project. As someone who grew up around the time I. Did you say, oh, they're doing Running man again. What's that going to look like?

[Josh Brolin]

No, it was interesting, but it was more interesting that it was Edgar.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Do you know what I mean? And I. I have a photograph of me and Edgar in 2007 in Cannes, and I had no country and he had Grindhouse, I think is why he was there. And it's me, like, drunkenly kissing his cheek or something like that. But I have that from 2007. And we would see each other at various. Like, he knows a lot of people. He's a very social guy. And I'd do a movie and I'd see him behind the monitor, and there's this through line reaction to seeing him, and it's usually, ugh, right. So I saw him during Knives out, which was before Running man, and I saw him next to Ryan. I just looked up and he was there and I went, oh. And I think that's why I'm in.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

The movie, because he's visiting sets and seeing his buddies.

[Josh Brolin]

And that's. Right.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

He's around.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah. So it was one of those things that you go, it's a cover song, is what it is. You know what I mean? And you would. I don't like. You look at the filmmaker and you go, do I want to be involved in a cover song? And it could be even better than the original song or at least just a, you know, a new take on it. And he's done some really interesting films. Shaun of the Dead and, you know, Baby Driver and all that. And I've liked his vibe that he creates. When he nails it, it's great. But. Yeah, and also another. Another, you know, one guy after the other. And I go, at the end of that year, I said to my agent, who I adore, Joel Lubin, and I was like, I'm happy with the year. Really happy with it. I worked more than usual. I did five movies back to back, and I don't want to repeat it. Mm. I did that. Like, oh, you're the bad guy. Yeah, I'm the bad guy. I. I did. It was like a little bit of a. Like, am I the. Am I. Am I that guy?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It was. I had a little personal hiccup.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh, interesting.

[Josh Brolin]

It is interesting.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

This is at the end after feeding.

[Josh Brolin]

After 41 years of doing this. Yeah, yeah. After all of them. And I really liked them. Yeah. I love. I love them for what they are. I would never change it. I just don't want to repeat it. I'm gonna go do a frickin rom com.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Say, now we're getting the era of the Brolin rom com, I guess, man.

[Josh Brolin]

I mean, you got it. You know, I saw. I'll just say this quickly. I saw. I said Christy last night. And I really liked it. I saw it by myself in the theater, all emotional at the end. Thought the story was incredible. I thought Sydney Sweeney did amazing. I thought Ben Foster did amazing. But she gets a lot of flack for just going outside of her, what she's been accepted as. I've never been accepted as anything, which is very lucky. It's not like, oh, Josh does this. So I'm very lucky in that way. I can go do maybe not a rom com, but something. And people go, oh, yeah, he's just doing whatever interesting it is.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Like, you didn't set out to do that. It's just the way it is.

[Josh Brolin]

There was nothing that landed where they go, oh, this is. Yeah, maybe more of a bad guy, but not even that, right? Like, you go, is no country a bad guy. Is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, maybe. Maybe that more than anything. But there hasn't. There's only been one movie, I think that I did that I really tried to push in one direction. That's brothers. That didn't to me didn't work.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

So I go, they don't. They don't want to see me whine for 90 minutes. It's not interesting.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, see me rage, but not.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Let's test this theory and get you in the rom coms. Let's see what happens.

[Josh Brolin]

Right into it. I am.

[Willie Geist]

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Josh Brolin right after the break.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They go perfectly with music, podcasts, and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds. Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you. Hello. Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to. I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's. Ashley, go back to the nature sounds. Nice. Yeah, that's really nice.

[On Nicotine Pouches Advertiser]

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[Josh Brolin]

F1 the movie is now on Apple TV. If we're not away, I lose the team. No pressure, no stream. The cinematic event of the year. If everyone makes one critical contribution. That's the difference between Last Come on and First Brad Pitt. No one gets past us without a fight. Do they have the car? We have the driver. F1 the movie 13 now streaming only on Apple TV. Subscription required.

[Willie Geist]

Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Josh Brolin.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

The opposite of the rom com is Weapons, which we've been talking a little bit about. What an extraordinary movie. Really the buzz is for good reason. I've heard so many people say, have you seen Weapons? That sort of word of mouth thing again, when that one comes across your.

[Willie Geist]

Desk, do you get it right away?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Is that appealing to you?

[Josh Brolin]

On paper, I don't know if I was supposed to say it because I didn't want to, you know, make him feel bad or make his team feel bad, but I know Pedro Pascal was supposed to do it and they had a lot of people, different people were supposed to do it like a year ago, a year before it was done. And. And then for some reason it was paused. I don't remember why. And. And then there was a recasting because Pedro had something else. I think he was doing Fantastic Four or something. So they called me and they said, hey, this thing has opened up. Are you interested? And I don't know that I was particular because it was a horror film. And I was like, I did Grindhouse, but that was more of a tongue in cheek horror film. And I, you know, you hear the story and it's these kids disappearing. And I go, I don't want to know if I want to get into that. Which I think was people's reaction when they heard, when the movie came out. They're like, I don't want to see that. And then people started seeing it and going, oh, it's not just that. It's actually multi layered. But I met him, I met Zach and I really enjoyed meeting Zach because he comes from a comedic background. He's using a horror genre and I hadn't seen barbarian. He's using a horror genre to deal with having lost his best friend. And each character was based on a Reaction during his grief process. That's interesting to me. It just became very emotional. Both of us got emotional. And I was like, this is. I just want to work with this guy. Because this. I didn't expect that you start wanting to work with people who are anomalous.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Do you know what I mean? And you know, when people. I've said this before, but when people show up and they're like, you know, dude, this is gonna be your Academy Award, you're like, ah, get the out of my house. Get out of here. Dude, your eyes. I'll use 150 millimeter on your eye. Cause you say everything right there. I'll off. It's true, though. Don't mean to be a. But it's like, you don't. You know, I just saw Paul Thomas Anderson upstairs.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I've known. You know, we did Inherent Bias.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And the exchange. Matt will tell you, it's so unpretentious.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It's like two homeless dudes that haven't seen each other, haven't slept together for a while, you know, on the street. And that's how it felt. That's literally how it felt.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

How do you keep that, though? Cause you've been at the highest levels of Hollywood and you've done everything you can do at Marvel and everything else, but how do you stay in there and not.

[Josh Brolin]

Because I have such a fear of it. I have a massive fear of believing your own hype because you lose something to me. And it sounds super pretentious, and if Paul were here, he would give me for saying this, but you're representing the human condition. And I know a lot of people that drink the Kool Aid and they also give great performances. So maybe I'm wrong, but for me, if you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race and you're just living this point. 001% life. How is that truthful? How can you be truthful in any way, shape or form? That's my feeling. I don't know. Or maybe I'm just like, I just want to save my money and I don't want to spend it. I'm just a money horde. I don't know.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But that's you walking around New York yesterday and ducking into a movie theater and going to see a movie. In other words, just trying to live.

[Josh Brolin]

A. I'm not trying to live.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

No, but I'm just saying living as regular a life as you can.

[Josh Brolin]

I'm not trying to. It's Not. It's not forced. I just do, and I don't get bothered. I remember De Niro saying something about, you're recognized if you want to be recognized, even if you're doing that. That's why we moved out of Malibu. Don't look at me, but please make sure that you're looking at me.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

People are hiding. They're doing a thing. But you're looking at the person who looks unnaturally, like they're trying to hide.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

That's right.

[Josh Brolin]

And you're like, it's too. There's too much energy that goes into something that I don't want to spend time doing.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

So if you walk down the street, especially in New York, which is the greatest, they're like, yo, man.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Yes. And you're like, right on. And that's it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

That's it.

[Willie Geist]

Yep.

[Josh Brolin]

It's done. And you're like, that's how it should be. Where, you know, there's another. There's another version of it that. That I get angry at, and I'll. And I'll turn around and I'll confront. And they said, you can't do that. And I said, says who? You know.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Again, reacting to things as a human being and not reacting to things as a untouchable, famous person.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't know, man. It's like if I. After, you know, if I said that at five years in, that's different. But when you're 41 years in, you go, I don't want to not like what I do.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

And in order to not like what I do, you. You. I want to keep mixing it up. You want to keep finding. You want to. You don't want to lose the wonderment.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

You don't want to lose the fascination of the poetry of how people react. So I have to put myself in situations where that is organic in order to get things to me that are interesting and then try and duplicate it or, you know, what's the word?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Replicate it.

[Josh Brolin]

Replicate it or simulate it. Yeah, simulate it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Well, it's. It's. That's such a fascinating take. I. I agree with you, by the way. When there's somebody sitting on the subway with big sunglasses and a hat pulled down, I'm like, why are you on the subway? I know that's someone. Rather than just sitting on the subway, and you're right on the subway, especially people reading the New York Post, just go, I see you.

[Josh Brolin]

That's it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

That's all.

[Josh Brolin]

That's it or not. That's even better. Yeah. Why doesn't anybody know who I am? On the subway, See American Gangster, man, It was amazing.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Thanos.

[Josh Brolin]

Nothing purple, dude. Hello. You know, the other way. I was with my daughter. We went, we were going, we went. Where do we go? We went to a gallery where I wanted to see these paintings. Then we walked across, around 89th street, walked across the park and then took the C train back down to Chelsea. And we did it a couple of times. We went back up because it was closed that day. So we went back up and we did the opposite on the subway. There's no issue, right? No issue. You get to use the phone to Tang. I miss the tokens.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I don't want to use my phone for everything. So I got pissed, so I jumped the turnstile. No, I'm not just kidding. I'm just kidding. I didn't.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

A confession here.

[Josh Brolin]

A confession.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

NYPD's waiting outside. But what's interesting about that perspective that you have just reading like your story, your life story, you could have, as the son of a well known actor, sort of put yourself in that space of I'm different or special, all that. But it feels like your upbringing where you're basically working on a farm and cleaning out animal cages and skateboarding and surfing and doing all that normal stuff kind of kept you grounded and away from that bubble. Is that fair to say that your. That your dad was, was living in that?

[Josh Brolin]

My dad and my mom were living in. My dad was working. My dad. And not that he wasn't home, he was home, but my mom chose to be away from LA and, and not to paint my mom as somebody because I did in the book and all that, but I painted my mom as somebody who was, you know, rough and tumble, drunk, whatever, you know, but she had long nails and she liked her, you know, you know, but she did, she had a funny relationship with fame because when she moved from, and I'll get through this quickly, but when she moved, when she ran away from home in Texas and had 90 bucks, the first people she met when she got to LA were Clint and Maggie Eastwood. So that's who took her under their wing. And then she ended up, after a while, just being in the maelstrom of Hollywood and coming from where she came from, she ended up in Camarillo State Hospital for three weeks. And voluntarily they put her in, but she could have left at any point. And then Clint came to get her out and she said, no, I like it here, because she had kind of Taken over, the whole space, which was, you know, it sounds awful, but it's very in character for my mom. So my mom was always in the cauldron of really interesting behavioral.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

So maybe it's from that. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And even though she was around Clint Eastwood and even though she, you know, the country western world where it was Waylon and Johnny Cash and all the, you know, Mel Tillis and Marty Robbins and all these amazing people that we were at the Palomino Club watching, and we'd be in their trailer in the back. So it was a different existence and a different sort of fame because people who were famous in the country western world weren't famous famous.

[Willie Geist]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

Not like now. It wasn't like Garth Brooks.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean? It's like Waylon Jennings.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It's like piles of cocaine and, you know, and a motel.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

So I took the cocaine out, but I'm still in the motel honoring my mother.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

That's amazing. But you. When you're.

[Josh Brolin]

Look at us, I say this with a super nice thing that's not even mine, but you're so.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But when you're like a. You're running around with the cedo rats, right. In the. In the 80s and trying to live that somewhat normal lifestyle of a teenager in California.

[Josh Brolin]

Not normal, but not normal.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But I mean, you know, not the Hollywood life. No, that's what I mean by that.

[Josh Brolin]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Is acting and performance anywhere on your mind at that point? Is it appealing to you?

[Josh Brolin]

Not at all.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

No.

[Josh Brolin]

Not in the least. Performing is. But in a different way.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Like for the police and stuff, but not in a. No. And I. And there's nobody of my crew of Gotten that crew of guys, but that gaggle of people. There's nobody who ever would have thought that I were to become an actor, ever. And. And then I accidentally. I mean, I've said it before, it was like I had an elective possibility. And it was like underwater basket weaving or acting or whatever it was. And it was like. Yeah. And I took the theater class and I got up. Can't remember what the teacher's name is, but marry somebody. And I got up on stage, it was the first class. And he said, okay, we're gonna do this thing called improvisation. And you're gonna get up and you're gonna create a character, and then we're gonna ask you questions and then you respond as the character. And I had created some, like, east coast, middle aged, balding, whatever. Whatever came to my Mind. And they asked me questions and it made people laugh. And there was something that switched in me. It was just something that switched. And then I was kicked out of my house in Santa Barbara and I went down to LA and it was trying to get my together and I said, okay, maybe I can try this. Made up a whole resume, a hundred percent. And remember anything you put on there? Oh, it was like, you know, I remember the theaters the best. It was like the Librero International Theater and like Terezo or something. There is no such town as Terrazzo. It's like Terrazzo, you know. But yeah, I'd put like Streetcar and then I'd put some Shakespeare and. And I was a good enough bull. Talk around it, you know, how was it playing? You know, Much Ado About Nothing. Oh, my God, that performance. I remember the rehearsal process. You know, whatever I said, just thinking about it. Yeah, exactly. You know, and then I went from agent to agent and then I got an agent. And then I. Yeah, I was told by everybody, you know, you're too green, you're not good. We're not gonna. You know, people who I knew were not gonna give me a shot because my dad was an actor and they thought that I had been kind of, you know, silver spooned through this. And it's interesting, man. There was. There's been a lot of. And it's probably the best way it could have happened. There'd been a lot of nothing was kind of brought on a silver platter. I had to work for it, find it, manipulate it, manipulate myself and see if there was any skill set or talent there. And I had to work for it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I got very lucky with opportunities, theater opportunities, you know, stuff like that that turned me into. If I'm any kind of an actor, that.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

And the. For your first movie ever, by the way, 40 years ago, it comes out is Goonies.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Which becomes this hit and cult favorite now, today.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

And you're thinking, I'm in a big movie, one of the stars of the movie, we're off and running. But it didn't really turn out that way, right?

[Josh Brolin]

No, no. And it did for some people. If you look at. But look at. If you have a long enough trajectory. Ki Hui Kwan, who was. I mean, he was it back then. And Ke Huy Quan left the business and they came back 25 years later and won an Academy Award. I mean.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

It's insane. The business is insane of what it can celebrate and what it can take away from somebody. You know what I mean? If you're identified in it. So I didn't feel like, oh, I'm there, because I didn't feel like an actor yet. I just got. I was the right person at the right time. And then after that, I did thrash in. And, you know, even though that became. And I don't talk poorly about thrashing anymore, because I used to.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And then you start talking to people of like. You know, that saved my life.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, my parents were junkies, and I started skating because of this. And I'm like, wow. You know. But I sucked in the movie. I mean, I was super bad. Really bad.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Is it true that you cried after the premiere?

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah, man.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Because you saw it and you were.

[Josh Brolin]

Like, I wasn't moved by me. Put it. Put it that way, Chrissy. You know, no voice control at all. And, yeah, I was like, I gotta do. I gotta figure this out. And then I did a double episode of highway to Heaven. And then I went to New York after that and started doing theater.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

And you've talked about and written about in your books or being in the wilderness for a long time as an actor, and still decades, trying to find it, and then kind of stepping away and trading stocks and all the things you did. Were you at that point done with acting? Or did you think this is just a pause while I figure this out?

[Josh Brolin]

It's not a pause. I was still in it. I just. There was nothing to do. I mean, we're getting calls. Imagine you doing this, and nobody's on the other side of this table. You're just by yourself, waiting for somebody to show up. Hey, maybe we should do George Clooney. Yeah, that'd be great. George Clooney doesn't show up. You know what I mean? It's like. That's what it is. You're like, oh, you're an actor, but nobody's calling for you to do a job. So I would go. I never knew for 22 years or something. I never knew when I was doing a job what that next job was going to be, ever. I never knew what that felt like. So I would do a job maybe for 50 grand or something. And then I would, you know, get 20 out of it. 22. After taxes and commissions and all that. And that was it. That's what I had for the year, you know, so. And I knew I was good at more than one thing, that I could figure it out. So, you know, stocks was a big thing. And I made good money playing stocks. Cause I was super disciplined. I didn't believe in the Big Win, which parallels with this, it's like, look, all I want to do is be a working actor. I just want, if I can make enough money doing this thing and get away with being creative for a living, that's a win. That's a massive win. As opposed to how do I get the most famous I can get? And that's what I. Especially in this day and age with Instagram and all that stuff, when people ask, you know, I'm thinking about the two professions that people resort to when they don't know what else to do is acting and real estate. They either become a real estate agent or they want to become an actor. It's just how it is, you know? And then they go, okay, how can I become an actor? And I said, well, start reading plays. Get people together who, you know. And you start doing round robins of play readings during the weekend. Find somebody to start. And then the film starts to go over their eyes.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

That's hard.

[Josh Brolin]

And they're like, yeah, that's work. Yeah, I'm not talking about the work. I'm talking about, how do you get famous? I'm like, I don't. I'm the wrong guy to talk to anyway.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But you sort of navigated that. You get to know country for all men 2007, when that comes out, and such an extraordinary movie. It wins the Oscars and all the things that it does. That, though, had to feel like, okay, now I'm on sort of a different path. Or are you still, even after that, a little hesitant? Because then W comes after that. Then comes Milk. You get an Academy Award nomination. You go on this incredible run. At that point, did you start to feel comfortable, like, maybe I'm back in the game?

[Josh Brolin]

No, I wasn't back. I was in the game. Yeah, I wasn't. Goonies would be the only reason I was in a game and I was out of that game. That Atari thing ended quickly, and it was really nice that it happened. But it's not that I was back in the game. I felt, because when we were doing no country, there was nothing that suggested that the movie was going to do well. And then if I went into this whole thing about how they tried to shelve the movie because they thought it was boring, and then how it kind of changed. Miramax came and asked Paramount Vantage to take over the domestic because Paramount Vantage didn't think it was a good movie. They wanted to focus on There Will Be Blood and Into the Wild, Shawn's movie. So over and over and over Again, it's like one of those, you know, you do a movie and then you kind of expect it to go out and a few people see it and that's it. And then that movie became something different and it became different for the Coens and it came. It was the Academy Award, you know, Javier, and all that stuff, man, and you. And so my feeling was, to answer your question, my feeling was, how do I along. How do I sustain this? And for me, what. I mean, and I'm lucky, but just work with good filmmakers. I was offered a lot of money to do certain things and men, I. I don't dislike money. I'll take the money. But I knew that it was interesting that it was short lived if I went that direction and I wanted it because I had never really had money, money and. But I didn't. And then I would go do Milk for, I think for scale, you know. And then I did American Gangster and I got paid a tiny. I didn't get paid a lot. I did W and W. Like I'm thinking about it now and I know exactly what I got paid. It wasn't a T a lot. It was way more than I had made, but it wasn't a lot. Christian Bale was supposed to do W and then he pulled out and then I took over for that, you know, Matt Damon was supposed to do Milk and then he had to do something. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You don't know. And it all fits in this weird. And now we all know each other and we're like, oh, yeah, you know.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

And you all had some strange, mystical hand in each other's careers without knowing it.

[Josh Brolin]

It's very strange.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Amazing.

[Josh Brolin]

It's very strange. And. And in good company. I'm honored to be in that company.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You know, really honored also just to have your instincts proven correct, which is do good work, do good things, and there will be a reward. Even if it takes years in your case, there will be a reward.

[Josh Brolin]

My wife still says, like, I don't know why you did weapons, you know, and there and there and nothing against her, but she said that was such a different genre for you. Like, I just didn't see that coming. You know, I read the script, I thought it was a really good script. You know, once in a while I'd be like, read this and tell me what you think. And she said, I didn't, I didn't see it. And it's one of those things where you have an instinct and sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. But the intention is, I like being in good movies a lot more than I like being good in a okay movie. I would much rather be okay in a great movie than be great in an okay movie. I like being in good movies. I like working with great filmmakers, and they're super bizarre people, and I like being around that because it reminds me of being like back in the Cito Rats. Right? You know, just a bunch of misfits looking for a place to fit. And then those guys kind of congregate and find each other because they're outliers.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And they band together for better or worse, and then it's the same. There's no difference between Wilmo when I was growing up and Ethan Cohen. Except, you know. Except Ethan does very well for himself. Right. And Will didn't. You know.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But you say, I know that guy.

[Josh Brolin]

I know that person.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I don't. I don't. I went out to dinner with Ethan Cohen at one point, and Ethan Cohen and I are close. And he kept looking down. It was just the two of us. So we're like this. And I'm talking and talking as I do, and he keeps going like this. And I'm like, what? I go, why do you keep looking down like. Like I'm telling you the story. And I looked under the table, and he had brought a book. No, I swear to God, dude, he's reading a book. I go, what the. It's just the two of us. You can't bring a book to a dinner with only one other person. And it wasn't an affectation. Like, anybody, you know, any actor would do that. You go, oh, I see. What. You're so crazy creative. Whatever. Wow.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I thought you were gonna say he was like, watch. Checking a game or something on his phone.

[Josh Brolin]

He's just reading a book. Wow. Reading a book. Okay. I would be insulted by anybody else, but with him, I just kind of like, aw, you weirdo.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I love you, you weirdo.

[Josh Brolin]

I do. I love them so much.

[Willie Geist]

Stick around for more of my conversation with Josh Brolin, right after a quick break.

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[Josh Brolin]

Step ahead.

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[Josh Brolin]

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Josh Brolin.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

And then at some point, good movies and commercial success come together with Thanos and all the Marvel stuff. Right. So that's a case where you go, it's gonna be a good movie. Right. I trust it in a way that maybe not all blockbusters would meet your standard of, this is gonna also be a good movie and a commercial success.

[Josh Brolin]

There's movies that I've done that have been commercial successes that I don't particularly love.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know what I mean?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I didn't like, necessarily the experience. I won't say what it is, but I think most people, if they know me, they know what it is. Avengers was great. Avengers was Joe Russo and Anthony Russo. I'm closer with Joe, but it's great. He just. We have all the same references, and we're kind of cinephilic geeks and. And talking about, you know, Scarface and this. And that's the references that he would use. You know, Dog Day Afternoon. And, you know, I'm playing Thanos. I'm in a onesie, you know, with, like, dots all over my face. And I keep getting stuck to things because of the Velcro on my onesie. You know what I mean? And then he's coming up and he's like, remember that thing in Scarface where you. And you're like, yeah. He's like, do that. I'm like, yeah, okay. And then you're doing this thing, and Downey, who is a true artist, you know, he is a true anomaly. Again, not an affectation. He's a weirdo, you know, in the best sense of the word. And, you know Downey, I go on set. I mean, like, it's cold, man. They go, oh, yeah. Downey likes to Keep the temperature at 58.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Oh.

[Josh Brolin]

I was like, for what? I'm like, I don't know. It's like, okay, he's down. He could do that. Everybody's sitting, waiting to do their scenes like this.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Iron man gets to call the shots, I guess, right?

[Josh Brolin]

Whatever, weirdo.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

But how did those movies though, change exactly what we're talking about, which is to keep it in here, keep life normal, get on the subway, all that. Because now all of a sudden everybody in the world knows who you are. Did you feel that moving around?

[Josh Brolin]

No, I don't think that. I mean, honestly, I don't know how true this statement is, but I think it's true. If I had been offered an Avenger, whether I would have said yes or no. Oh, I was offered a 800 pound purple guy, you know, with a, like a scrotum chin. You know what I mean? So I don't think people are recognizing that in the subway. And it's the best case scenario. It's like, hey, do you want to do this thing? And by the way, when they came to me with it, it was a cameo. They hadn't developed that whole thing. And they were like, do you want to do this thing? And I was like, that's interesting. And they gave me the kind of Marvel Bible, Thanos and Iron man. And I didn't know a lot about it and I thought, oh, this is super interesting. But it wasn't. The two movies weren't developed at that point. And. Yeah, and it got really fun. It got really. So it's the purple dude against it's best case scenario.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And for two films. So it's not 10 years. And they go, well, you could have done it for 10 years. You get a bunch of money, you get a big. And I don't want to do it for 10 years. I don't want to do a play for two years.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

Or a year. I'm not interested. I don't have. I'm too tweaky. I want to go in. That's why I love movies. Go in, totally saturate and immerse yourself and just give it your all. And then go back to real life and go home. I've got kids, I like my kids. As opposed to trying to get away from my kids so I can go be famous somewhere. I enjoy being home. I enjoy being with my family. I know I have a 4 year old, 7 year old. I just saw my 32 year old and I got my 37 year old. My whole. I will spend my Entire life raising children, which is good.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You got some road ahead of you.

[Josh Brolin]

With a 4 year old. I do.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You know, which is a good thing, by the way.

[Josh Brolin]

It's a really good thing.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

It is.

[Josh Brolin]

It's a really good thing.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I don't. You know, again, it's like positioning without consciously necessarily knowing you're doing it.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You can't help but be regrounded. You can't help but be humbled. You know, if anybody knows anything about parenting, it's that you'll never get it right. There's moments and you go, I got it. And then it changes.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, and then you walk into the thing and your kid goes, no, go away. And you're like, what, what did I do? I didn't do anything. No, I want to be with mom, you know, or whatever it is. It just. And that's the natural. That's an insanity that I prefer. Yes. And then movies and all that, and they go, God, it's crazy. And you did you get pulled into movies and producers and people trying to manipulate you. I go, oh, that's not, not when you have kids. You know what I mean? That's. That's an insanity that, that I love and adore and doesn't hold a candle. Even though I'm super grateful that I get to do what I do at the level I get to do it at.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

I'm not sure everyone I interview or everyone in your business has the perspective you have and doesn't take the craft of acting as so precious. It feels like you know who you are, you're self assured, you know what's important to you. You're grateful for all the opportunity you have in this business. But you know where it sits.

[Josh Brolin]

I know where it sits. But the only thing that the caveat is I do take it very seriously when I do it. When I do it, I take it very seriously and I give myself to it a thousand percent because I have a respect for the craft of acting, which I think is. It's a craft, you know, and, and it's a skill set. I don't know if it's an art. I don't know. I think painting is an art, which I'm obsessed with. I wish I could do it, but I can't. I try. But I think music is an art, I think writing is an art. Acting is a skill set. You're using somebody else's art and trying to simulate it in a way that. You know what I mean? That serves the story.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

And I don't mean to talk down about it. It's like people are like, you know. But it's a skill set.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Right.

[Josh Brolin]

You know, and you have to. And there is magic in that skill set that can happen. And there's really magical moments that have happened that I'm so grateful to be a part of when things just click and you're off on a thing and you don't even. It's almost like a blackout. You don't even know what happened. Yeah, but I've also had that. And then watch the movie and go, huh, that's not so good. I was in the zone, man. That's what's crazy about movie acting and how it's edited and what music is put on it. Most genius thing about no country is that there was no music genius who would not put music to a film where there's not a lot going on that's artistry or stupidity or incredible bravery or not caring what other people think so much and just saying, look, I have an instinct to do something which I do like being around these people. I said, the Sydney Sweeney thing, I go, people know who you are. They expect you're beautiful. You have a thing and you have a presentation, and you do a certain kind of movie, and you did the thing with Glen Powell and. And it was so cute. And. And then you're going to go play this girl. Good for you. I'm. I'm the first guy to go, you know, keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche. I like that.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Push back against the public perception a little bit. Right?

[Josh Brolin]

Why not? Isn't that what you're here to do?

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I mean, not everybody is. They find their niche and they like it and they want to stay there. And it's comfy and. And I respect that, too. There's a lot of people that I respect that do that, but I have more respect for people who challenge the niche because, again, you're going back to representing the human condition. And it's like you either are part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster. That is entertaining.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Josh Brolin]

I think Thanos would be both. Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Before I let you go, I want to ask you about the memoir last year. You mentioned it about a year ago, I think it came out. I've talked to McConaughey about this, too. When you put it all out there and all of a sudden the whole world knows it all, it feels kind of private. While you're writing it, you're telling all these things and then you're doing interviews about it and talking about it. What was that process like for you? Was it some kind of catharsis? Was it just fun or what did the memoir.

[Josh Brolin]

It was super uncomfortable. It was super uncomfortable. Yeah. And they said, God, it. It must have been cathartic writing it. And I go, no, all that stuff already happened. You know, it just hadn't been out there. And how I, you know. And also Matthew's book. And Matthew did the blurb for my book. Very sweet, incredibly sweet. And really read it, you know, as opposed to certain interviews, not with you, but certain interviews that I've done where people are like, wow, you're a mom. And you go, oh, you haven't read the book. You. You know, And I could tell those people, but people who really. It's an interesting. Cause it's very raw, very naked, very personal. And then the first interview I did with was a guy that had been hounding me for three years. I was really heavy at the time. I was like 30 pounds heavier. And I was getting into this and it was really uncomfortable and really raw. And I hated the interview. I don't hate looking at it now. I think it's appropriate. But when you're talking about movies and directors and you have all these kind of scapegoats that you can utilize, you know, timeline where, you know, whatever other actors, this is just you. And if you've done it in a way that I think Matthew did it, because I really like Matthew's book a.

[Willie Geist]

Lot.

[Josh Brolin]

But his is super inspiring. Mine's not particularly inspiring. And the book became what it wanted to become. I had one intention in the beginning, and then the book became very mother heavy. And then it became about this redemptive thing with my kids. And it's about survival. That's what it is. And what you do with that survival. But there were a lot of people that were like, what about your second marriage? What about. You know. And it's not. That's. I could write that book in the future. I'm reading Anthony Tony Hopkins book right now, and I love it. It's so good. But that's not what my book was meant to be. My book was meant to be like a vignette. A vignette of memories, paintings, whatever prosean thing that I've always adored and practiced. That was my.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

In a way, I think with your mom, we all have a little of this. The farther away you get from something, seeing it a little bit differently, what it actually meant then and what it means to who you became and all those things.

[Josh Brolin]

It was a huge endeavor for me not knowing that it was because I've always written and I write every day, and it's my first love, for sure. And I think I'll get better as I do. More. I just met with my Kimberly Witherspoon, my lit agent, and like, what are we doing now? And I'm gonna, I just pulled out of a movie and I'm gonna focus on the next book. And that's my love. That's what I want out of my life. And the more I do of that, the better I feel. And getting as is my career, I don't get silver plattered. I didn't get the Pulitzer for that book. You know, I didn't get everybody. Yeah. But still, it's not like it's like, oh, my God, it's a revelation. You know, I had people that were pissed and I also had. Because I didn't give them that thing that a famous person is supposed to give them or a celebrity is supposed to give them. And maybe that was intended. I don't know. I really don't know. But then I had former, former poet laureates call me out of nowhere and be like, this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years. Which meant everything to me. A true writer calling me and saying, kudos, yeah, that's. This is better than it should be. You know, and so, yeah, it meant a lot.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Keep doing it, man.

[Josh Brolin]

Thanks, man.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

So fun to talk to you.

[Josh Brolin]

Thank you.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

You too. Thank you, Josh.

[Josh Brolin]

Yeah.

[Interviewer (Sunday Sit Down Podcast Host)]

Really appreciate.

[Willie Geist]

My big thanks again to Josh for a great conversation. Wake up, dead man. A Knives Out Mystery is streaming now on Netflix. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Chevrolet Advertiser]

The 2026 Chevy Equinox is more than an SUV. It's your Sunday tailgate and your parking lot snack bar. Your lucky jersey, your chairs and your big cooler fit perfectly in your even bigger cargo space. And when it's go time, your 11.3-inch diagonal touchscreen's got the playbook, the playlist and the tech to stay a step ahead. It's more than an suv. It's your equinox Chevrolet together. Let's drive.