Podcast Summary: Josh Brolin on Craft Over Fame, the Cost of Honesty, and His Inner Switch

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist | December 14, 2025
Guest: Josh Brolin
Host: Willie Geist
Theme: An introspective conversation with Josh Brolin covering his unconventional journey as an actor, the tension between craft and celebrity, the cost (and value) of honesty, embracing discomfort, and personal philosophies on work, family, and what it means to be grounded.

Episode Overview

Willie Geist sits down with Josh Brolin in the Chelsea Hotel’s basement restaurant in New York City to discuss the arc of Brolin’s remarkable acting career, from an unlikely start with The Goonies through wilderness years, to breakout roles in No Country for Old Men, Milk, and as Thanos in the Marvel universe. Brolin opens up about the joy and challenge of inhabiting dark and complex characters, the pitfalls and illusions of fame, balancing his public life with privacy, and writing his deeply personal memoir. The conversation is candid, occasionally raw, and full of wisdom about art, identity, and the necessity of discomfort in personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Playing Monsignor Wicks in Wake Up, Dead Man

• Character Insight: Brolin plays a demagogic preacher who intentionally tries to shrink his already dwindling flock as a test of the human spirit, appreciating the labyrinthine nature of Rian Johnson’s script.

  “He feels that when he does his little sermons, if he doesn't get somebody to walk out, that he's not challenging the standard of the human being well enough.” (05:23)

• Script Quality: Brolin gushes about Rian Johnson’s writing, describing it as layered and unpredictable.

  “It's rare that you read a script and you go, wow, it's like reading a great book. ... I thought I had the answer and I was wrong.” (07:33)

• Performing for Peers: Giving performances in front of actors he admires is both innervating and unnerving, sparking self-doubt and excitement.

  “Can I pull this off? … You know what I mean? And they're all looking at me like, oh, look at Josh. Try and go. ... But I like that. I liked the challenge." (09:16)

• Personal Confrontation: Playing Wicks involved confronting and channeling uncomfortable aspects of his own psyche.

  “He gets into a rage ... that's an ugly that I went, whoa. ... And it was appropriate for the movie. I'm glad that it's there.” (10:23-10:59)

2. On Running Man and Typcasting

• Working with Edgar Wright: The project appealed because of director Edgar Wright, not the franchise itself.

  “You look at the filmmaker and you go, do I want to be involved in a cover song? ... When he nails it, it's great.” (13:04)

• Year of Intensity: After several consecutive intense roles, Brolin questions if he's being typecast as the “bad guy,” expressing a desire to break type.

  “I did five movies back to back, and I don't want to repeat it. ... I'm gonna go do a frickin rom com.” (14:15-14:37)

3. On Career Identity & Genre Fluidity

• Niche-lessness: Brolin reflects on the freedom of never being typecast, able to move between genres (“Maybe not a rom com, but something… And people go, oh, yeah, he's just doing whatever”). (15:21)

4. Taking Weapons for the Craft, Not the Awards

• Unexpected Opportunity: Brolin only landed his role in Weapons after Pedro Pascal became unavailable, highlighting the randomness of Hollywood casting. He was initially reluctant due to the dark subject matter but was drawn in by director Zach’s personal grief-fueled vision.

  “I, you know, you hear the story and it's these kids disappearing. And I go, I don't want to know if I want to get into that. ... Then people started seeing it and going, oh, it's not just that. It's actually multi layered.” (18:04)

• Avoiding Award Chasing: Brolin resents the notion of choosing roles for Oscar bait. He values meaningful craft and collaboration above pursuit of trophies.

  “When people show up and they're like, you know, dude, this is gonna be your Academy Award, you're like, ah, get the f— out of my house.” (19:48)

5. Staying Grounded Amid Fame

• Fear of Believing the Hype: Brolin stays clear of celebrity bubbles out of fear of losing touch with authentic life.

  “If you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race and you're just living this .001% life, how is that truthful?” (20:51)

• Practical Example: He relishes walking anonymously in New York, seeing himself as part of the crowd.

  “If you walk down the street, especially in New York ... they're like, yo, man. ... And you're like, right on. And that's it.” (22:32)

• Childhood Influence: Describes a “rough and tumble” upbringing with parents who shunned Hollywood’s glitz, his mother preferring the company of colorful, flawed country musicians and outsiders.

  “My mom was always in the cauldron of really interesting behavioral [people].” (27:21)

• Not Seeking Acting Early: As a teen, acting wasn’t on his radar—he stumbled into it via elective theater class, only later faking a résumé to get auditions.

  “There's nobody who ever would have thought that I were to become an actor, ever. ... I had an elective. … I took the theater class … and there was something that switched in me.” (28:47-29:16)

6. Long Road to 'Overnight' Success

• Years in the Wilderness: After Goonies, Brolin didn’t become an instant star. He weathered decades of sporadic work, struggling financially, relying on stock trading for income, and constantly hustling for the next gig.

  “I never knew for 22 years or something. I never knew when I was doing a job what that next job was going to be, ever.” (33:56)

• Not Chasing Fame: He offers advice based on craft, not celebrity, and observes few are interested in “the work.”

  “I'm the wrong guy to talk to anyway.” (36:07)

7. Breakthrough and Integrity Post-No Country for Old Men

• Landing the Role: Brolin recalls how the film almost didn’t happen and reflects on its unexpected success.

  “There was nothing that suggested that the movie was going to do well. ... Over and over and over again, ... you kind of expect it to go out and a few people see it and that's it. And then that movie became something different.” (36:46)

• Choosing Projects: He consistently chooses interesting filmmakers and roles over big paychecks, even after his breakthrough.

  “I would much rather be okay in a great movie than be great in an okay movie.” (39:32)

8. On Friendship, Outsiders, and Filmmaker Eccentricity

• Kinship With Outsiders: Brolin finds comfort and belonging among Hollywood’s “misfits,” relating them back to his youth with the CeDo Rats and outsider friends.

  “There's no difference between Wilmo when I was growing up and Ethan Cohen. Except Ethan does very well for himself.” (40:41)

• Ethan Coen Anecdote: Ethan once brought a book to their dinner for two—“He can't bring a book to a dinner with only one other person ... but with him, I just kind of like, aw, you weirdo.” (41:01)

9. On Thanos and Marvel Stardom

• Surprise & Satisfaction: Playing Thanos felt anonymous (thanks to CGI/chin prosthetics) yet deeply satisfying due to the Russo brothers’ direction and “cinephile” references. The process was collaborative and creatively rewarding.

  “I'm playing Thanos. I'm in a onesie ... and then [Joe Russo's] coming up and he's like, remember that thing in Scarface ... Do that.” (44:11)

• Zero Interest in Franchise Grind: Brolin turned down offers to sign on for a decade, preferring a limited commitment to avoid personal and creative burnout.

  “I don't want to do it for 10 years. I don't want to do a play for two years... I'm too tweaky. I want to go in, totally saturate and immerse yourself and just give it your all. And then go back to real life and go home.” (47:08)

10. Parenthood and Its Humbling Presence

• Fatherhood Keeps Him Grounded: His children (ages 4 to 37) ensure he never forgets what matters and keep him humble.

  “You can't help but be regrounded. You can't help but be humbled. You know, if anybody knows anything about parenting, it's that you'll never get it right.” (48:18)

11. Acting: A Skill Set, Not an Art

• View of Acting: Brolin distinguishes acting from pure art, placing it as a skill set dependent on others' art (writing, directing, music).

  “It's a craft, you know, and it's a skill set. I don't know if it's an art. ... You're using somebody else's art and trying to simulate it in a way that ... serves the story.” (49:40)

• On Mixing It Up: Encourages actors to push beyond typecasting, serving “the human condition” rather than comfort or public expectation.

  “Keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche. ... You're either part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster. That is entertaining.” (52:10)

12. Writing the Memoir: The Cost of Honesty

• Book’s Reception and Rawness: Writing was “super uncomfortable,” more about exposing truths than catharsis. He’s proudest of praise from real writers, less concerned with pleasing the public or fitting celebrity expectations.

  “It was super uncomfortable. ... It's very raw, very naked, very personal.” (53:10)
  “I didn't get the Pulitzer for that book. ... But then I had former, former poet laureates call me ... ‘this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years.’ Which meant everything to me. A true writer calling ... that's ... better than it should be.” (56:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On script surprises:
  “I thought that I had the answer and I was wrong. And that doesn't happen ... it was really satisfying to be wrong, to be just a half a step behind where he was manipulating me in the script.” (07:33)
• On honesty in acting:
  “There's an ugly [part] that I went, whoa ... and it was appropriate for the movie ... I don't know if I want to see it again.” (10:33)
• On fame:
  “If you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race … how is that truthful?...That's my feeling.” (20:51)
• On peer admiration:
  “[Robert] Downey likes to keep the temperature at 58° [on set]. ... Everybody's sitting, waiting to do their scenes like this.” (45:34)
• On acting vs. art:
  “It's a skill set. ... There's magic in that skill set that can happen. ... But you're using somebody else's art.” (49:40)
• On discomfort and growth:
  “Keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche ... You're either part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster that is entertaining.” (52:08)
• On writing and recognition:
  "I had former, former poet laureates call me ... 'this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years.' Which meant everything to me. A true writer calling me and saying, kudos, yeah, that's ... better than it should be." (56:58)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |---|---| | 03:46-05:23 | Introduction to Knives Out role, Monsignor Wicks | | 06:25-08:52 | Rian Johnson’s writing, script unpredictability | | 09:10-11:00 | Challenges of big, bombastic performances; personal discomfort with expressing rage | | 13:04-14:37 | Running Man, Edgar Wright, avoiding "bad guy" typecast | | 18:04-20:21 | Weapons casting, value of craft vs. awards | | 20:51-22:32 | Philosophy on fame, staying grounded, living "regular" life | | 27:21-28:05 | Upbringing, mother’s relationship to fame, grounding influences | | 28:42-31:35 | Accidental entry into acting, fake résumé, the switch during first class | | 31:50-33:09 | Goonies success not translating to stardom, early career struggles | | 33:56-36:46 | Two decades of career uncertainty, trading stocks, work over fame | | 36:46-39:19 | No Country for Old Men breakthrough, choosing quality over paydays | | 40:41-41:01 | Finding belonging among Hollywood outsiders, Ethan Coen book anecdote | | 44:05-47:08 | Marvel/Thanos experience, creative process, avoiding long franchise commitments | | 48:18-49:20 | Parenting, humility, personal grounding | | 49:40-50:34 | Acting as craft/skill, not pure art | | 52:05-52:37 | Challenging public expectations, the value of reinvention | | 53:10-56:58 | Memoir writing, discomfort of honesty, seeking real recognition |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Josh Brolin’s journey is one of resilience, self-examination, and putting artistry above celebrity.
• He relates stories with humor and blunt honesty, wary of hype, proud of his blue-collar approach to work.
• Brolin’s career choices are governed by interest, integrity, and creative collaboration rather than calculated fame.
• He believes acting is a skill—transcendent moments arise from honest, grounded living, not from building a celebrity persona.
• Parenthood, discomfort, and friendships with “outsiders” are continuous sources of humility and inspiration.

This summary highlights the key topics and moments in the episode, capturing Josh Brolin’s candid, reflective tone and the depth of conversation around art, honesty, and living an authentic creative life.