Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist: Machine Gun Kelly on His Evolution From Rap to Punk Rock (October 2021)

Overview

In this intimate and at times raw episode, Willie Geist sits down with Machine Gun Kelly (Colson Baker) for a deep-dive conversation on his musical evolution, the personal battles behind the public persona, and the emotional journey from outcast teenager to world-touring punk rock star. The discussion covers MGK's transformation from respected rapper to chart-topping pop punk force, the pressure of fame, the vulnerability in his art, and the power of authenticity. The episode offers a candid look into the struggles and triumphs that define his life and career.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Burden of Authenticity & Emotional Vulnerability

• MGK opens up about the pressure to appear "okay", even when he’s not, and the toll it takes on mental health.
  • "I'm so work obsessed, and I'm so busy trying to block out my demons with jobs that I'm getting sick of, like, wearing a smile because I just don't have anything behind the smile anymore...Like, the smile is becoming not real anymore."
    [02:23, MGK]
• Describes feeling "hollow," and the expectation for artists to perform emotionally for the media.
  • "Why do I have to be what you want?... For once I was like, you know what? I'm gonna, like, bring how I actually feel...But it's funny that like, when I can wear my actual self on my sleeve, that that's not acceptable."
    [03:43, MGK]

2. Confronting the Narrative: Media, Validation, and Motivation

• Frustration with the media’s lack of focus on his musicianship:
  • "I have yet to hear the public media, like, the mainstream media, acknowledge my songwriting, acknowledge the musicianship, acknowledge the catalog. Like, I hear. I hear tabloid headlines that are like, they. They fall short in exciting me because I'm like, nothing matters but the music."
    [06:27, MGK]
• Geist is clear about his interest in “the music,” not the tabloid persona.
• MGK emphasizes he is not "trying" punk; he lives it:
  • "I don't try punk. I am punk, and I do punk. I don't try."
    [07:37, MGK]

3. The Evolution: From Hip-Hop Roots to Punk Rock

• On the necessity of “rawness” and live instruments in music:
  • "Music lost the music. There was no more instruments in music. It became synthesized, it became digital... It needed rawness again. It needed somebody to be like, I'll make a mistake and mess up or not mess up...and you can at least just hear my personality..."
    [07:57, MGK]
• MGK discusses the history of his punk ethos, from Warped Tour to embedding guitars in all of his albums.
  • "It actually strikes me as odd that people even associate [punk] as a transition with me, as if I didn't come out with a 6 inch Mohawk on my first album, as if I didn't have guitar based music on all of my albums."
    [11:43, MGK]

4. The New Audience, the Old Pain

• Growth of his fanbase, feeling of rebirth, and new levels of authenticity.
  • "It seems like it's fresher than ever to people...But I feel like I held back for whoever who I actually was. Like there was always my. I was always bearing it all, but I just hadn't removed certain subconscious layers..."
    [13:03, MGK]
• MGK and Geist connect on the metaphor of the “iceberg”—only a glimpse of deep emotional content is visible in the music.

5. Songwriting, Darkness, and Transformation

• Discussing the depth reached (or not reached) on Tickets to My Downfall and beyond:
  • "Tickets was just me sticking my head in the water. I didn't actually even swim down yet. The swimming down came after that album released and I like had affirmation..."
    [15:50, MGK]
• On moving forward without fear:
  • "Dangerous how? To you. Because I'm not scared anymore...my true self is...like a hurricane. Can't stop that. It just goes until it feels like stopping. And I don't feel like stopping anytime soon."
    [17:18, MGK]

6. Who Is His Music For?

• Originally for the outcasts, but realized insecurity is universal.
  • "By only choosing to speak for people who outwardly don't feel cool, I'm also alienating the people that we may think are just so cool, who inside are so insecure."
    [22:38, MGK]
• The importance of not prescribing an audience and letting music be a “religion” for all.

7. Rejecting Genre Boxes & Gatekeepers

• Critique of genre purism and the media’s reluctance to embrace new sounds:
  • "That narrative gotta stop...There shouldn't be division between anything. There should just be individuality..."
    [26:37, MGK]
• Expresses frustration with music journalism’s resistance to authenticity and new generations.

8. The Pressure to Perform, the Hidden Struggles

• Shares the story of pulling a song from his set because it was too personal to “perform.”
  • "I just want to respect the energy of this song and what it was intended for and not, like, turn it into a show because it came from a real place and it isn't a show."
    [38:13, MGK]
• MGK feels misunderstood, villainized in the mainstream, and rarely asked how he really is.
  • "I've never ever once been asked, am I good? People just assume, am I good?... I'll just go talk to myself or go write it more in music and you'll just miss it more and more again."
    [34:30–36:00, MGK]

9. Triumphs, Turning Points, and Gratitude

• On winning at the Apollo Theater, early support from “the streets,” and unlikely mentors.
  • "All the people that you're not supposed to be around were the ones that really lifted me up and like, filled my heart with love and gave me a protection that a family couldn't."
    [49:33, MGK]
• First music checks, not caring about money until it was stolen — music is about art and memories, not cash.

10. Growth, Evolution, and the Mask

• Not interested in “growing up,” but committed to emotional evolution and shedding defenses.
  • "Growing up does not interest me. Maturing and becoming a better me is absolutely first on my agenda because that ends up coming out on my fans and my relationship and my daughter and my friendship."
    [57:35, MGK]
• On leaving the metaphorical "mask" behind for the conversation.
  • "I want to thank you for not being a person to shun me, for having a human moment."
    [61:16, MGK]

11. The Joy of Success and Live Connection

• The power of seeing sold-out stadiums sing along to his lyrics.
  • "That's like. I could cry thinking about that, man...for it to culminate. In these moments of sold out shows and crowds singing, like everywhere, dude...that was always the dream. So I'm living the dream right now."
    [64:52–68:42, MGK]
• The evolution from wild antics to focusing purely on the music.

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On not faking emotions:
  "It's weird to me that I can't come in and have a morning where I'm overwhelmed with happiness, with sadness and all those things, and that I can't just come in front of cameras and be human."
  — MGK [02:23]

• On authenticity in music:
  "I don't try punk. I am punk, and I do punk. I don't try."
  — MGK [07:37]

• On music’s purpose:
  "Music is expressed excitement. Music is unpredictable."
  — MGK [10:59]

• On new fans and sustaining momentum:
  "It seems like it's fresher than ever to people... And I feel like I held back for you ever who I actually was."
  — MGK [13:03]

• On universality of insecurity:
  "By only choosing to speak for people who outwardly don't feel cool, I'm also alienating the people that we may think are just so cool, who inside are so insecure."
  — MGK [22:38]

• On mainstream acceptance and legacy:
  "I'm just a fan of not having to get gray hair on my head before people start to be like... the people spoke already... I'm going to die one day. And it's okay to like say congratulations while I'm still here."
  — MGK [34:00]

• On performing personal pain:
  "I pulled it out of the set... I just want to respect the energy of this song and what it was intended for and not, like, turn it into a show because it came from a real place and it isn't a show."
  — MGK [38:13]

• On evolving as an artist and person:
  "Maturing and becoming a better me is absolutely first on my agenda because that ends up coming out on my fans and my relationship and my daughter and my friendship."
  — MGK [57:35]

• On living the dream:
  "That's like. I could cry thinking about that, man...for it to culminate. In these moments of sold out shows and crowds singing, like everywhere, dude...that was always the dream. So I'm living the dream right now."
  — MGK [64:52–68:42]

Notable Segment Timestamps

• 02:23–07:47: MGK discusses struggles with authenticity and smiles, Geist expresses desire to tell his true story.
• 07:57–11:43: MGK on the punk album, the loss of musicianship in the industry, and his live performance ethos.
• 15:50–17:18: Discussion of emotional depth in his songwriting, and feeling "dangerous" in his authenticity.
• 22:38–26:37: MGK expands on who he makes music for and the universality of insecurity.
• 34:30–38:13: The struggles of having his mental health signals “missed” by the media and mainstream.
• 49:33–54:21: The people who truly supported him, unexpected mentors, and first breaks.
• 57:35–60:17: Growth, maturity, and leaving behind emotional armor.
• 64:52–68:42: Reflections on performing now vs. the early years, measuring success by connection, not just stunts or antics.

Conclusion

This episode provides an uncommonly real and emotionally complex portrait of Machine Gun Kelly—an artist unafraid to show his scars, question the industry, and credit both the pain and the joy behind his meteoric rise. Geist’s probing but compassionate style allows MGK to drop his defenses and offer both honesty and hope to listeners.

Fans and newcomers alike will leave with not only a richer understanding of the music, but of the resilient and restless person behind it.