Willie Geist (2:27)

I want to say people listen to this on the podcast where they hear the whole thing so people don't get to see it. But here, I want them to know that you moved your schedule around. You are here, and I am grateful. And we also, people can't see it. Are in sort of an empty bar.

Margot Robbie (2:42)

That evokes the shining, very eerie feeling. We're in a very empty, creepy looking room. Feels like the hull of a ship.

Willie Geist (2:52)

Beautiful, but haunted.

Margot Robbie (2:53)

Beautiful, but definitely haunted.

Willie Geist (2:56)

Something in the air.

Willie Geist (2:56)

There's something in the air.

Willie Geist (2:57)

Yeah.

Margot Robbie (2:58)

I don't know if that's coming through on your podcast right now, but I am significantly unnerved.

Willie Geist (3:03)

Well, let's hope this isn't a cursed interview. I don't think it will be.

Margot Robbie (3:06)

God, look how we set ourselves up.

Willie Geist (3:08)

I know, right? We can only go up from here. Let's talk about the film. First of all, congratulations. It's amazing. Lots of people talking about it around awards season when somebody came to you with the idea of this iconic role. It's a daunting role, obviously. It's a role that's been played by many of your acting heroes through the years and icons of the screen, from Audrey Hepburn through Cate Blanchett. What was your reaction to the idea?

Margot Robbie (3:34)

No, absolutely not. Yeah. No, I loved the script as soon as I read it. It's very intelligent. Bo Willimon, he wrote House of Cards. You know, he can write a political drama and give it that pace and intensity, but also, you know, there is so much research behind it. So it was a brilliant read. Sersh was already attached. She'd been attached to the project for, I think, seven years before they shot it. And I love her already. I'd met her, you know, personally before and loved her work, so that was a big reason to make me want to do it. And then I met Josie, who's incredibly, you know, well known in the theater world and a brilliant director in her own right. And this is her first feature film, but she was just wicked the minute I met her. She was rad. Saoirse is rad. The script's rad. I was just like, I really want to do it, but I just I can't play Elizabeth. I can't play Queen Elizabeth the First.

Willie Geist (4:27)

Now, why did you say that?

Margot Robbie (4:28)

She's been played by so many of my absolute heroes in the acting world. And I just. It wasn't just that. It wasn't just being scared of trying to redo something that other people had done. I just didn't think I'd had anything in common with her. I was like, who am I to play a queen? I'm not classically trained. You know, I kind of learnt on the job and everything else. I've kind of, you know, I always work on this side on, like, you know, coaching and I do courses and I do all that kind of stuff. But I never went to university. I don't have a master's degree. I don't know anything about the time period. Like, I must have, like, skipped class, I guess, in the days when we learned about the Renaissance period, because I knew very little about that. I don't really deserve it, to be honest. I feel like there's so many other actors out there who deserve this role more than I do, and I can't play a queen. I just can't.

Willie Geist (5:20)

So what changed your mind?

Margot Robbie (5:22)

Josie did. She wrote, you know, a beautiful long letter and she said to me, like, I don't want you to. I expressed those thoughts and my reasons for being so hesitant. And she said, yeah, but I don't want you to play a queen. Like, I. Because I said, I was like, can I be honest, Josie? Like, why? Why me? Like, why do you want me to do it? And she was like, because I don't want to. I don't want someone to play a queen. I want someone to play a woman, a young woman. And then that kind of changed my mind. I was like, oh, okay, well, if you're sure that that's what you want, I can give you that. I know I can deliver that. So, yeah. And from that point on, she kind of gave me the entire educational process of learning about the time period and getting to spend time with John Guy, who is an incredible historian, but also wrote a book that Beau based the script on. So I got to spend a lot of time with him. We'd go to Hampton Court palace, where Elizabeth spent time and really learn about, you know, the inner workings of a politics at that time, but also just her life and what she would have gone through up until the point where we see her on screen, which is a lot.

Willie Geist (6:27)

It's a lot.

Margot Robbie (6:27)

Yeah. Her dad killed her mom, her sister put her in prison, tried to have her killed. I mean, yeah, there's a bit of childhood trauma there to unpack.

Willie Geist (6:35)

So what do you think it is about her? Because you're not the only one who may have missed that day in class. Yeah, I mean, that keeps actors coming back to tell the story of this queen. Why is she such a fascinating character once you got to know her?

Margot Robbie (6:49)

She is fascinating because she. She rebranded the role of a queen and she did it in a very clever way. She was the first person to really franchise her image and have that kind of brand perception that I guess seems like a very current thing. But, you know, she was doing it back then. She would send out, you know, needlepoint templates of her face so that people could stitch it at home and have it, you know, she rebranded herself as the Virgin Queen so that she wouldn't have to get married. Getting married meant handing over your power to another man. Getting married meant you'd have to deliver a male heir very shortly afterwards. And if you weren't like her mum didn't, maybe your life was in danger because of that. So she was very clever in taking the route of not getting married and announced that she was married to England and she was a Virgin Queen and that was her image because she was a Protestant. On the flip side, there were Catholics. Catholics had the Virgin Mary and if you look at the image of Elizabeth with, you know, her elaborate gowns that had, you know, these wire mesh things around her like this, it's exactly like the Virgin Mary with, you know, the halo around her head. I mean, she was very, very clever with brand perception. And beyond that, she was well educated since a child. She was very restrained, as you kind of see this relationship with Cecil, played by Guy Pearce, fellow Aussie in the film. The two of them arguably had the most successful political career in history ever. He was a political mastermind and she really did kind of do what he'd advised in most cases. They had a few run ins, primarily. Spoiler alert. Mary's death was a big thing that kind of caused a rift between them, but they had a really successful political relationship. She was, I think, the longest reigning monarch and she was queen and ruled at a time and gave England more years of peace and prosperity than I think anyone else had. And it was at a time where women weren't valued in a leadership role. You know, people wanted a king and if they had a queen, they weren't happy about it and they'd just, you know, wait for the day that she was pregnant and they could have a king again.

Willie Geist (8:52)

Right.

Margot Robbie (8:52)

You know, they'd hand the crown over to a baby, essentially. So she was. She was an incredible person. And beyond that, her. As I mentioned before, her childhood was, you know, kind of rife with trauma, really horrible things. And then in her older years, her relationships, again, were incredibly complicated. So. And England, it was at a really crazy. You know, it was the golden age for England. England, England were kind of like, pushing their way to the head of the pack with Spain and, you know, all these other powers in the world. It was just a fascinating time. Fascinating time.

Willie Geist (9:27)

So you say you don't know anything about it. You could teach a college class. That was just the lecture in a college class.

Margot Robbie (9:33)

Yeah, but before this, I was like, I don't actually wore white makeup and stuff. I don't know.

Willie Geist (9:36)

And look at you now. 16th century college professor. Honestly, the Elizabethan period.

Margot Robbie (9:40)

Thank God for movies. Otherwise I'd know nothing. Honestly. I can tell you about pickpocketing Elizabeth. I can tell you the most random things. I know all about.

Willie Geist (9:48)

Very specific knowledge, very specific things.

Margot Robbie (9:50)

But I know lots about it.

Willie Geist (9:51)

But it's impressive either way. There's also the physical transformation that you underwent. You know, when you first come out, you go, wow, okay, that's Margot Robbie. You're kind of looking closely. She.

Margot Robbie (10:02)

Doesn't she look gorgeous?

Willie Geist (10:03)

She's.

Willie Geist (10:04)

She's lived some life. She's lived some life.

Margot Robbie (10:07)

Well, Elizabeth actually had smallpox, which was something that we kind of, you know, wanted to dramatize in this to understand why she ends up looking like the Elizabeth I think we all have in our mind. You know, white face, receding hairline, crazy big red wigs, you know, all that kind of stuff. She had smallpox. It almost killed her. And smallpox often left people permanently scarred and disfigured because of them. And that, to us, explained why she packed on all that white makeup. And it also dramatizes the relationship between her and Mary, who was renowned for being exceptionally beautiful. Younger than Elizabeth, obviously, you know, and kind of. Kind of had her woman possessed, her womanhood in a very different way. Whereas Elizabeth was very quick to shun her womanhood and say, you know, there's amazing quotes from Elizabeth saying stuff like, I may have the feeble and weak body of a womb, but I have the heart and stomach of a king. You know, she really. She had such disdain for her own sex in a way that I don't think Mary did. Mary embraced that and. And had a baby and married someone she was in love with, even though that went awfully wrong. I think in Some ways, at least in this film, I wanted to convey the idea that though Mary often took the path that Elizabeth would never take, Elizabeth kind of admired her for it and was a little bit envious of it. Kind of lived vicariously through her in some ways.

Willie Geist (11:26)

We were just discussing that you and Saoirse didn't see each other really, for most of the movie.

Margot Robbie (11:31)

No.

Willie Geist (11:32)

Until one scene, which is really the only scene in the film that we see the two of you in the same place. Was that difficult anticipating what she was doing and what you were doing, and then having to meet somewhere in the middle of the story?

Margot Robbie (11:43)

Yeah. Super ironic that my main reason for doing this job was to work with Saoirse and I get one scene with her, but it's a great scene and it's like a 12 page scene, so it was totally worth it. But they went to Saoirse and I said very early on we'd love and Josie agreed that we should not see each other as our characters until that moment, as our characters in the film had never seen each other until this fictional moment, which didn't actually happen, historically speaking. And everyone worked very hard to make sure that was the case. And for anyone watching who's spent time on film sets, to logistically keep two people apart who are in the same film is impossible. It's really hard to do. And often film schedules are dictated by location. So fortunately, they shot everything they needed to shoot everything that took place in England first, and then company moved to Scotland. Take everything, shoot everything that takes place in Scotland. Mary stays in Scotland for the most part of the movie, except for that meeting. And Elizabeth always stayed in England. So my last day was Saoirse's first day. And that's the only time we cross over. I did my whole journey as Elizabeth, and then on my last day, Saoirse's first day, we had that scene and then she carried on and did the rest of the film. So, yeah, I mean, emotions were running very high by that point for different reasons. And, you know, it was emotional for me, my last day, it's emotional for her, her first day, but beyond that, we just spent so long thinking about each other and, you know, every scene I did was, you know, Elizabeth obsessing over what Mary's doing. So I'd constantly had Mary in my mind, Saoirse, Mary in my mind, constantly, always obsessing over her, you know, yearning for her, but then also being terrified of what she's doing. And then comes the moment where, you know, we actually shot the first half of that scene before we see each other, still hadn't seen each other. And then they'll set up for our close ups and they'll cross shooting and she pulls down that last sheet and that was the first time we ever saw each other. And they were rolling on it and, yeah, we just like, totally broke down. Like, it was not meant. It was not written to have tears in it in the scene at all. No, absolutely not. No, that we were like, meant to be kind of yelling at each other, which we kind of do, but it was emotional and we were sobbing and they yelled cut. And we just kind of like clung onto each other and were like shaking and crying. It was a very strange, surreal moment. But honestly, as an actor, one of the best moments of probably the best moment I've ever had on a set.

Willie Geist (14:03)

That's so interesting. So where did the tears come from for you?

Margot Robbie (14:06)

For me, it was knowing. It was that. That interaction was so tragic to me because it happened at the wrong time. Kind of like a love story where they meet after they've gone off and married someone else. It was. That's what it was to me. It was walking into a situation and knowing that I was going to say no to the thing I'm person I wanted most in the world. But they just got me too late. And so when she says, I know your heart has more within it than the men around you who counsel you. And I say, I'm more, you know, I'm more man than woman now. The throne has made me. So I'm saying that maybe that was true a few years ago, but I severed all ties to my womanhood. I sacrificed everything. I will never have a child as you had a child. I will never marry for love as you have. I gave those things up in order to have the security on the throne and security in my life. And it's just too late and I can't help you. So for me, the minute I see her, knowing that she's gonna ask for my help and knowing already that I'm gonna say no to it was a horrible, horrible feeling and it just made me cry.

Willie Geist (15:08)

But you all kept in touch before you saw each other. You said you were texting a little bit. Like, how's the rest going?

Margot Robbie (15:13)

We did the. Me and Saoirse. Great. Don't worry. We had the whole rehearsal period, which was great, which was more extensive than most feature films ever allow for. But Josie from the theater world, you know, holds great importance in the rehearsal period, which is fantastic. So we had heaps of Time in rehearsals to hang out, and we already knew each other. And then we didn't get to see each other really by shooting. But then after we finished the movie, we both got nominated for the Oscars. And so we saw each other, like, every day.

Willie Geist (15:39)

Right.

Margot Robbie (15:40)

Although, ironically, never saw each other shooting a film, but afterwards saw each other, like, almost every day at different events, luncheons and press things and stuff, which is so nice. It's just nice to have a friend at those things.

Willie Geist (15:52)

You're probably gonna see each other again this awards season, but don't know. I don't wanna jinx anything. You mentioned the men in the movie. The men in the movie are not happy that you're in power. The men in the movie are not happy that Mary's in power. And in fact, many of them try to undermine your character. Is there any message in the context of today about that? About strong women being undermined by men?

Margot Robbie (16:15)

Yes, I think there are quite a few themes. Probably the biggest theme, Women in Power, is an incredibly relevant conversation today. You can. You can see how difficult it was back then to be a woman in rule at a time where they just didn't value your opinion. These women were. They knew politics in and out. And yet you couldn't rule in the same way because there were certain social constructs in the way that didn't allow you to rule in the same way. For example, men weren't allowed in their privy chamber, like in their personal chambers, where if you're a man, they go in there, they're signing paperwork while King whoever's sitting on the toilet. Like, they literally did that. I'm not even kidding. But as a woman, you were just held at arm's length, I guess, and it would have been incredibly hard to rule. And then when they were ruling, they were constantly being, you know, there were smear campaigns essentially, especially for Mary Cecil, who Guy Pearce plays, and John Knox. Both of them worked incredibly hard, even after Mary's death, to really smear their names. And that's why I think this movie is great. You're seeing Mary in a way that people have never described her. You know, people, you know, she was often called a harlot. She was accused of, you know, killing her husband so she could be with another. You know, all this kind of stuff. People often said she was too emotional and too sexual to lead, which is just incredibly unfair depiction because she was an incredible woman and would ride into battle and knew politics in and out and grew up in the court in France and, you know, was worldly and educated and same for Elizabeth, though very different circumstances she was very adept at. But it was in a. Yeah. At a time where people didn't. Just didn't want to see that.

Willie Geist (18:03)

And do you see reflections of that in culture today or in your business even?

Margot Robbie (18:08)

I mean, it's interesting to note that the two women in charge of government in Scotland and England are women as it was back then. And they're both doing it in very different ways. I think the circumstances are a little different. It's not really quite life or death the way it was back then, but I think there still is the perception that perhaps, you know, women are too emotional to lead, to be rational, which is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

Willie Geist (18:36)

Yeah, I think in most rational opinions that's ridiculous.

Margot Robbie (18:40)

That's ridiculous. I think most people would agree that's ridiculous.

Willie Geist (18:42)

Along those lines, this interview will air on Golden Globe Sunday.

Willie Geist (18:45)

So it will. Yeah.

Willie Geist (18:46)

It will have been a year since you and more than 300 other people signed. Other women signed the 300 person Time's up letter. And you were black that night. And it was a big emphasis. So it's sort of a milestone this year, a year later. Do you think Hollywood has sat up and taken notice? Have things changed to your eye in the last year or so?

Margot Robbie (19:09)

They have. I think they have, yeah. I really do. I mean, I'm right now promoting a film directed by a woman. I have just wrapped a film where most heads of department were female roles. It's female led ensemble piece. And I'm in prep for a film with a female director. Second time female director, you know, with a big budget behind it. That's important too. I think. It's one thing to say let's support women in film and female filmmakers. We're going to give them a million dollar micro drama, micro budget drama. It's quite another to say here's a giant costume drama with a hefty budget behind it. Likewise, I'm a producer on the film we're in prep for and it's a big comic book film with a lot of money behind it. And I was like, I want a woman to direct it. It's a female ensemble. Of course I want a woman directing it. But I think up until recent times, saying that and actually getting people to put their money behind that was two different conversations. I think it's easy to say yes. Wouldn't that be nice? It's quite another to say, yes, I'll sign off on that decision. You know, I recognize when we're making movies, it's not my money being spent. It's, you know, people are putting a lot of money behind that and people like Focus and Working Title, who hired Josie on this and, you know, back those choices. That's a brave thing to do. And I'm seeing more of it now.

Willie Geist (20:30)

And there's a track record now those movies are successful and Patty Jenkins does Wonder Woman and the door is broken.

Margot Robbie (20:36)

More tickets to movie theater like to see a movie than men. I don't know why it's taken so long to recognize that, hey, we should make movies. But everyone came to that, you know, came to that conclusion. And the next step from that point was let's make more female driven content. So many females buy tickets for movies. And then the step beyond that was let's have females telling those stories, those female driven stories, which, you know, it takes time, but I'm definitely seeing the change.

Willie Geist (21:04)

Well, what's cool about you is you're not just talking about it in interviews. You've started a production company, Lucky Chap, that practices what you're preaching right now. What is the philosophy at luckychap? What are you trying to do, you.

Margot Robbie (21:15)

Know, to promote women in film, whether that's through female driven stories or with female filmmakers or both. And not to say we haven't worked with and continue to work with incredible men. We do. And at the end of the day, the best person gets the job. So I think it's our duty to put way more effort into finding those female driven stories and those females female filmmakers. And once we've brought all those options to the table and balanced that conversation by having as many female options as male options, I can make short lists of male directors in a heartbeat. But to really find an extensive list of female filmmakers is harder because they haven't had the same opportunities. But once you can balance that conversation, then the best person gets that job. And if that's a man, a woman, whoever, great. It's the best person for the job. But you have to make, I think you have to make the effort beforehand to balance that conversation and have all the options on the table in an equal way.

Willie Geist (22:08)

And again, you've had a track record now with I, Tonya, being under that production company, you've showed that you can make a great movie that way. Was that a different kind of challenge for you to not only star in a movie like that, but also to have your production company behind it and sort of your name on the door as well?

Margot Robbie (22:26)

Yeah, it's a bigger responsibility that you can't, if it goes wrong you can't say, like, oh, I don't know what they were thinking. Hiring that person. That was weird. You know, I'm just acting in it. But so, yeah, like, yeah, you can't blame anyone else if it doesn't work out. You're taking a bigger gamble for sure. But it also means you're a part of the creative conversations. You're part of making those choices, who to hire, what to edit out, you know, how to market it. It's nice to be able to throw your opinion in there and kind of shape a project. I've worked on a lot of projects where I see the powers that be making decisions that I'm like, that's strange. I would have done it differently. When I produce, I get to have an opinion and say, oh, okay, here's what I think. Not to say, I don't enjoy just acting and not producing like I did in this film. It's an enormous relief to kind of sit back and be like, overtime over time. Not my problem. Someone else thought it out. Great. It's nice to just do the acting as well, which I'll continue to do always. But I really love producing.

Willie Geist (23:24)

Well, it seems to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you're sort of now leveraging the success you've had and the fame you've achieved to do good for the industry and to do good for other women and to use. You know, even with the Harley Quinn spinoff, you say, okay, let's do that, but I want to do it under my production company. Is that a cool place to be where your name gets you in the door and you say, I want to control the content as well.

Margot Robbie (23:48)

Yeah, it's so nice. It's such a privilege. And it's a position. Before I got there, I knew, oh, wow, I can't wait till that day happens where I can greenlight a movie by attaching to it and I can see my friend's script or someone I don't know and their script, and they've never directed before, and no one's going to put the money behind them. And I know that if I sign on and say that I'll do it, financiers will put the money in and this person gets to make their film. Like, that's an amazing feeling. And, yeah, I was very much looking forward to the day where I'd be in a position where I could do that. And now that I am, it's. Yeah, it's really wonderful.

Willie Geist (24:23)

It didn't take you long. Wolf of Wall street was only five years ago. Is that crazy to think of 2013?

Willie Geist (24:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Margot Robbie (24:30)

That's wild.

Willie Geist (24:31)

Do you ever stop and go, whoa, this thing, this rocket ship has taken off pretty quickly?

Margot Robbie (24:36)

Yeah, like all the time. Yeah. Yeah. No, quite often I'm like, this, this is wild. And every year I'm like, nothing could get better than this. This is the best ever. I'm so happy. Nothing could get better. And then another year goes by and I'm like, ok, no, that was the best year. That was awesome. Yeah, no, it's been really fun.

Willie Geist (24:52)

Did you always have, growing up, sort of a performer's mentality? I know you were into magic and you were a bit of a trapeze artist, I'm told.

Margot Robbie (25:00)

Well, not an artist merely could do it. But yeah, no, yes, definitely had a dramatic flair growing up. I would, I think my family would attest to that. But no, I was never, I was never like, you know, the. I didn't grow up in a place where people were in movies or anything like that. So you would never say, I'm going to be in movies when I grow up. You would just be like, I'm going to be in the school play because I love doing plays and stuff like that. So it's quite surreal to me.

Willie Geist (25:26)

So at what point then along the way did you realize, oh, this could be a career. This is just a fun hobby, something I could do for. Was it Neighbors?

Margot Robbie (25:33)

Yeah, that occurred to me. Six months into being a regular on a long running TV show. That's the first time I actually occurred to me like, wait, I could do this as a job? Like just this. I actually asked other cast members, I was like, do you do any other jobs? Like, do you have a job on the side or something? And they were like, no. And I was like, you just do acting for a living? Yeah. You put your kids through school and buy house just on acting. They're like, yeah. And I was like, rad. Okay, I'm gonna do that.

Willie Geist (26:02)

Did you have other jobs in those early days? You have to work a little side hustle?

Margot Robbie (26:05)

So many side hustles. Yes. No, I, yeah, I've had most, most part time jobs you could imagine. I've probably, I've done them little waiting tables, waited tables, worked behind a bar, worked in retail. Worked in retail for two years. Yeah, everything. Worked in the food industry, done babysitting, done house cleaning. Yeah. Fish and chips store.

Willie Geist (26:31)

Oh, you really have done it all.

Margot Robbie (26:33)

Yeah. No, seriously, try me. I've done gift wrapping at Christmas time. Yeah.

Willie Geist (26:36)

Anyway, and what do they think back home? What does your family think now that you're Margot Robbie, movie star?

Margot Robbie (26:42)

I don't know. I think they're happy. Yeah. It's nice because they're so removed from it that it's not. It'd be cool, too. Like, I know a lot of people whose whole families are in the industry, and that seems cool. But I like that mine's not, because, you know, it's nice to kind of, like, have it, just a work thing and then I can go home and hear what everyone else is doing. Keep your feet on the ground.

Willie Geist (27:06)

Keeps you humble.

Margot Robbie (27:07)

Totally. My mum works with disabled kids. You know, if I'm ever on the phone to her and I'm like, oh, this happened. And this happened today. And I'm like, well, how was your day? And then she starts thinking about her day and I'm like, shut up. You are such a lucky person. Shut up.

Willie Geist (27:22)

I talk about all the adversity you have in your life.

Margot Robbie (27:24)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's great. Definitely puts things in perspective.

Willie Geist (27:28)

Well, congratulations on the movie. Thank you so much for the time.

Willie Geist (27:31)

My thanks to Margot Robbie for sitting down with me. You can catch her latest film, Mary Queen of Scots, in theaters now. And thanks as always, to you for tuning in for another week to hear more of the conversations with all my guests. Be sure to click subscribe and don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC.

Willie Geist (27:49)

I'm Willie Geist.

Willie Geist (27:50)

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

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