Mark Hamill on the legacy of "Luke Skywalker" and his new movie "The Life of Chuck"

Summary

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist: In-Depth Conversation with Mark Hamill

Episode Title: Mark Hamill on the Legacy of "Luke Skywalker" and His New Movie "The Life of Chuck"
Host: Willie Geist, Sunday TODAY
Release Date: June 15, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this engaging episode of "Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist," host Willie Geist sits down with the iconic actor Mark Hamill. Known for his enduring role as Luke Skywalker in the "Star Wars" franchise, Hamill delves into his latest project, "The Life of Chuck," and reflects on his illustrious career spanning nearly five decades.

Mark Hamill’s New Film: "The Life of Chuck"

Mark Hamill introduces his new film, "The Life of Chuck," which is based on a short story by Stephen King. Contrary to expectations, the movie is not a horror or psychological thriller but a ”really beautiful and uplifting story” told in three acts, working backward to depict the life of Chuck, who is dying at the story's outset.

Mark Hamill [03:53]: "I just finished this morning the Life of Chuck, which is such a beautiful movie. And as you were saying, kind of an indescribable movie."

Hamill praises the film's unique narrative structure and its life-affirming message without overt moralizing, making it timely in a divided and uncertain world.

Mark Hamill [04:20]: "This movie is the right movie at the right time because we're so divided. There's so much division and uncertainty, and this is so life-affirming."

He highlights his role as Chuck's grandfather, expressing his enthusiasm for returning to on-screen acting after primarily focusing on voice work.

Mark Hamill [04:50]: "I play Chuck's grandfather, and I'm only in Act 1... It was just idyllic. I mean, all I had to do was love my wife and love my grandson."

Mark Hamill’s Acting Journey

Hamill shares anecdotes from the set of "The Life of Chuck," praising his co-stars and the young talent involved.

Mark Hamill [07:45]: "I was just bowled over. I knew he had been on Broadway in the Hugh Jackman version of The Music Man. But I'm telling you, he sings, he dances. One time I came on set, he was knitting. Who knits at that age?"

He also discusses his experiences in voice acting and his return to on-camera roles through collaborations with director Mike Flanagan.

Mark Hamill [13:23]: "I was spoiled, really, because I had an enormous range of characters I could play. But this was the first part that I thought, ordinarily I only get that part in animation. But he cast me on camera, and I'm so grateful to him."

Star Wars Legacy and Its Impact

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the impact of "Star Wars" on Hamill's career and his perspective on the franchise's enduring legacy.

Mark Hamill [34:11]: "Star Wars gave you enough of that on camera, and now you're able to flex all these other muscles."

Hamill reflects on the unexpected cultural phenomenon that "Star Wars" became, transforming him from a relatively unknown actor into a global icon.

Mark Hamill [44:01]: "You were relatively unknown to the public actor before Star Wars. And now you're one of the most famous people on earth. How did you handle that?"

He recounts the overwhelming fan reactions and the challenges of dealing with intense merchandise-driven fandom.

Mark Hamill [46:15]: "People work all their lives and aren't remembered for anything. And I never expected to be, that's for sure. All I wanted was to be able to continue to work in a job I loved, and this was it."

Personal Stories and Experiences

Hamill shares heartfelt personal stories, including his early love for performance inspired by classic television and movies.

Mark Hamill [25:34]: "I watched Walt Disney shows and King Kong on television, and it wrecked me. I cried my eyes out when they killed Kong. I had no idea that it was fixed."

He also touches on his family's initial skepticism about his acting career and his determination to pursue his passion despite their expectations.

Mark Hamill [29:58]: "My father said, you're going to be making stink bombs... My mom said, you want to learn chemistry? Come in the kitchen."

Future Projects and Conclusion

Discussing his future in the "Star Wars" universe, Hamill expresses a desire to move on from the character of Luke Skywalker, feeling that his story has reached a natural conclusion.

Mark Hamill [53:16]: "I really felt like a conclusion... Once that Skywalker trilogy was over, it was a whole new era for them."

He emphasizes his excitement for new projects and his appreciation for the opportunities that have allowed him to explore diverse roles beyond his iconic character.

Mark Hamill [54:36]: "So there's what you're the villain. Yeah, yeah. And really the... It's the next generation of people to watch out for."

Closing Remarks

Willie Geist wraps up the conversation by thanking Mark Hamill for his time and highlighting the release of "The Life of Chuck."

Willie Geist [54:57]: "You can see his new film The Life of Chuck in theaters now. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mark Hamill [04:20]: "This is so life affirming... It's truly unique."
• Mark Hamill [13:23]: "I was spoiled, really, because I had an enormous range of characters I could play."
• Mark Hamill [34:11]: "Star Wars gave you enough of that on camera, and now you're able to flex all these other muscles."
• Mark Hamill [53:16]: "I really felt like a conclusion... Once that Skywalker trilogy was over, it was a whole new era for them."

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look into Mark Hamill's career, his latest cinematic endeavor, and his thoughtful reflections on the "Star Wars" legacy. Through personal anecdotes and insightful discussions, listeners gain a deeper appreciation of Hamill's versatility and his impact on both film and pop culture.

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For those keen to explore more about Mark Hamill's journey and his latest film, "The Life of Chuck" is now available in theaters. Tune in next week for another captivating conversation on the "Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist."

Transcript

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[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Man, do I have a treat for you today. My conversation with Luke Skywalker himself, Mark Hamill. There is absolutely no need for an introduction of Mark Hamill. You have known him for almost 50 years now, believe it or not. Yeah, the first Star wars movie came out in 1977. Great conversation with Mark about the process leading up to that. He was an unknown actor at that time. Walked into an audition, got called back for another audition. Harrison Ford was in there as Han Solo and he didn't know what to make of it. He only had a few pages of the script. He said he couldn't tell if it was like a parody of space movies or what are we going for here? And he said even while they were making it with all these strange droids making jokes and these fantastical characters, maybe it was just going to be kind of a cult classic like the Rocky Horror Picture show or something. Meanwhile, it goes on to become the biggest movie franchise ever created by man. So we talk about what it was like to be Luke Skywalker in those moments for those first three movies and really for the next 5050 years what it's like to always be Luke Skywalker. And kind of pushing that away at first, after the Star wars movies, before fully embracing it, especially in one moment backstage at one of his Broadway shows with Carrie Fisher, who said, dude, just embrace it.

[Mark Hamill]

You're Luke Skywalker.

[Willie Geist]

I'm Princess Leia. Great story for a man who's full of great stories and now is starring in a new movie called the Life of Chuck, based on a novella, a short story, really, from Stephen King. Now I say Stephen King. You think it's going to be horror or some kind of a psychological thriller? It's not. It's a really beautiful and uplifting story. It's told in three acts. It works backwards, about a man named Chuck who is dying when we first meet him, and it works backward to go to his childhood, in his childhood, in that last part of the story, which is actually the first part of his life. Mark Hamill is Chuck's grandfather. So it's really a beautiful role. He talks about being pulled back onto the screen. He's been very happy as a voice actor and doing all the things he does, but he was very. He read this script and thought, yeah, this is a reason to come back and be on screen. So I'll step aside. You don't need to hear any more from me about Star Wars. You know it. You love it. Sit back, relax. Enjoy a conversation right now with Mark Hamill on the Sunday Sit down podcast. Mark, it's great to see you.

[Mark Hamill]

Thanks for doing this.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah. I was just saying, I just finished this morning the Life of Chuck, which is such a beautiful movie. And as you were saying, kind of an indescribable movie.

Yes.

And it's one that comes from Stephen King and Mike Flanagan, well known for his horror films, psychological thrillers, however you want to categorize. And that's why this movie takes you in such a beautiful way by surprise as a viewer. And you were saying, even as someone who was reading a script and thinking about this movie, you were hit by that as well.

Absolutely. And I told the producers, how am I supposed to promote something? I mean, how do you describe the indescribable? I mean, nominally, it's following the story of this man named Chuck from, like, the kindergarten Chuck and junior high school Chuck. And high school Chuck is Jacob Tremblay and eventually Tom Hiddleston. But I feel like this movie is the right movie at the right time because we're so divided. There's so much division and uncertainty, and this is so life Affirming, you know, it's sort of, I love the fact that the audience discovers it without being hit over the head with obvious messages. It's, it's truly unique. And Stephen told Mike Flanagan this isn't filmable. And they'd had a prior relationship because he had done Doctor Sleep and several other other Stephen King project. So he said, well, just trust me, I'll send you the screenplay and we'll see what you think. And Stephen loved it. He's tweeted about it, he called it excellent in, in my opinion and excellent was in italics. So that's high praise indeed. But. And until, as you say, it tells the story backwards. Act three, act two and act one. And I play Chuck's grandfather and I'm only in Act 1 and it was just idyllic. I mean all I had to do was love my wife and I love Mia Sarah and love my grandson. The littlest one is Cody Flanagan who is irreplaceable, repressible. At that age I would be on a movie set, you know, wide eyed. He walked on like he owned the joint, you know, I mean his scene is cut short but when he's playing with the train, he's ad libbing. All aboard, get your luggage on. He had no lines, but he's improvising like crazy. There was one moment I just, I think tickled me so much. He was playing with the train and Mike comes in between takes. He goes, now remember when the train goes around the third time, no more smiling. And he listened and Mike went back to the camera and I saw Cody doing this. I said, cody, what are you doing? I'm practicing not smiling. He wasn't trying to be funny, but oh so adorable at that age. And Benjamin Paycheck, this kid who's not a kid anymore. I guess he was 12 when he did the movies. Fourteen now. But I was just bowled over. I knew he had been on Broadway in the Hugh Jackman version of the Music man. But I'm telling you, he sings, he dances. One time I came on set, he was knitting. Who knits at that age? But he's, I'm telling you, you're really going to see a lot from him because he's, he's just so talented. He can do comedy, he can do drama. This is his first movie.

Wow.

And he is such a touching performance and so real. And I loved, I mean I can relate to this. You know, when he's at school taking his, you know, the after school D dance classes, he's dancing with a Girl, that's got to be.

Yeah.

A foot taller than he is. I can relate to that. But. And it's just filled with so many wonderful actors. I mean, I, I would give anything to have worked with Tom or Chiwetel Adefor. Carl Lumbly. Well, I did work with him in, in House of Usher, but I'm saying I'm so isolated. Karen Gillan, Matthew Lillard, it just goes on Michael Trucco. So I had to tell them, you know, I mean, I, I would one day love to work with you, but it's an honor just working near you.

Sharing a bill with them. You're on the same poster at least.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, at least I was trying to.

[Mark Hamill]

As you say, it's kind of indescribable. Think through why it moved me so much watching. I think part of it is the unexpected, that it's not what you think when you see Stephen King's name, but also it just makes you stop and think about your own life and your own legacy and what's actually important to you and how long do we get to be here and making the most out of all of it. So at its core, what would you say this movie is about?

Well, it's. It's one of those things where it's life affirming and hopelessly optimistic without, like I say, hitting you over the head with messages. It's what you take from it. And that's what was a revelation to me when I first saw at the Toronto Film Festival. They were with us from the get go and seeing it cold. I mean, there was no publicity sheets with a synopsis or anything. And I would urge people, if you can see it cold, don't read reviews and don't Google it, for God's sakes. Because when you come upon it fresh, you're open to it in a way that allows you to glean what you want from talks about how little moments that seem trivial at the time really are life changing in many ways. And like I say, it's just so optimistic in its viewpoint and I think we need that in this country. There's so much division and anger and uncertainty. This is almost therapeutic.

And it plays a little bit of a trick on you because, for example, when you see Tom Hiddleston dancing spontaneously with the girl who's busking on the drums, you say, oh, that's an interesting, beautiful moment. I don't quite get why it's so meaningful to him. And then as you work through the movie, which actually is working backwards, it reveals itself. Oh, that.

Yeah, he danced. That was about my wife with his grandma. All that stuff. Yeah. And I love the way it just. That sequence just grows organically because here he is an accountant, this boring accountant with an attache case. And it just develops spontaneously and the crowds gather around. I think it's a really original approach to a dance sequence. And dance plays a big part of it when you think of it. Not only him dancing with his grandmother. Grandmother. But then joining the after school activity where Samantha Sloan is. Is his. His teacher. And he. I slipped in and watched that scene. I didn't want to draw attention or anything. So once they were ready to roll the third ad, say, go in now. So I stepped just inside. I had a lot of time off, by the way. You know, I'm only in Act 1 right at the end of the movie. But it's remarkable. You know, Mike Flanagan, when he cast me in the Fall of the House of Usher, I was playing this soulless, sociopathic, evil lawyer. Now, in voiceover, that'd be routine because you can play anything in voiceover. They cast with their ears, not their eyes. So as long as you sound right for the character. So I had. I was spoiled, really, because I had an enormous range of characters I could play. But this was the first part that I thought, ordinarily I only get that part in animation. But he cast me on camera, and I'm so grateful to him. He really changed my attitude towards the business because I was getting sort of cynical. I thought, well, I'll continue to do voiceover. But I've kind of had it with on camera, you know, I mean, unless I'm offered really challenging roles. And that wasn't really happening, which is fine. I mean, it's a natural arc of any actor's career. But it put the fire back in my belly. I thought, wow, if I can. If he can see me doing that. He really thought outside the box for that. But occasionally that happens. I mean, I remember I'm a big fan of what we do in the shadows. My agent said, oh, they want you to do what we do in the shadows. I'm thinking I'll be playing the high school principal. I'll be playing the disgruntled next door neighbor or a meter reader. They sent the script Mark Hamill Roll Jim the Vampire.

Boom.

And that, to me, it just sort of encapsulated their humor. Not Vlad the Vampire Jim. It's so mundane and it was just a joy to work with Matt Berry. And all of those actors are so great.

It seems like watching you, as Alby, you were able to call on years of almost theater training with some of the monologues that you had. And as you talk about the richness of this character, why you wanted to do it, was that part of the appeal that this was a guy who you really could sink your teeth into?

Yes. Well, because I started reading and I thought, well, he drinks a little too much. That's a character trait. But he's basically a really dull accountant until his grandson says math is boring. Well, this hits him where he lives and that the way he rhapsodizes about math, it told me who he was. And it's so unique to his character that an accountant would talk about it as it being inspirational. It can make you popular. You can really. And he talks about, when you look at the night sky, you're seeing the greatest equation ever. I mean, he's inspired and it just tickled me because I thought, oh, that's who he is. But I just had it. And working with Mia Sarah, she's just such a nice, sweet lady. And you know, as actors you don't have any time. You know, you have to sell the fact that you've been together for 50 years on day one and we just fell into it and I thought, o, oh, in my make believe world, I could just live here because I have the grandchildren, I have the wife and I have a simple life and I'm.

An accountant in a nice Victorian house.

Exactly.

Was Toronto Mark the first time you realized you guys were on to something special? Because it got such a reception at that film festival a few months back, it won the audience award, the People's Choice Award. Was that the first time you went, oh, this is resonating?

Yes. Well, I thought we had something special, but there's no guarantee that the audience is going to respond accordingly. And when the film started, I mean, they were just with us from the get go. They laughed in the right places. There was applause for that dance sequence. And at the end of the picture, the lights came up and there were people with tears in their eyes. It did win the People's Choice Award, which, and we weren't in competition, so that was unexpected. But I thought, boy, if we have word of mouth from audiences like this, we're in great shape. It's, it's like I say, it's layered and deep and I love the fact that it just plays out. It's not like they're hitting you over the head with morals or you, you should think this. It leaves it to the audience. So People can enjoy it on, on, on a level that's personal to them.

There's so much in there that we won't give away. But the reveal about what's going on in that cupola or the turret up there, well, that's where a little.

Well, there, there's a moment where that's a little Stephen King.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Or the apocalyptic aspects. But, but like I say, I don't think I know. Stephen is much more versatile than people give him credit for. He did do Green Mile, the Body, which became a Stand By Me, the Shawshank Redemption. So he's not exclusive. I think he's most well known for Pet Sematary and the Shining and Carrie and all that. So he sort of gets typed. But he's wonderfully versatile and he's so aware. They sat me next to him at the Toronto Film Festival and outside I'm being an actor and say, how do you do? Inside I'm like, oh, it's Stephen King. But when I went to sit down, he went the major, which is the character I'm playing in the Long Walk. I have another movie coming based on a more traditional Stephen King novel. I mean, the premise alone is so ghastly, I thought. I don't know if I could even.

It really is be in it.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to see this thing.

And you're the villain.

Yeah, yeah. And really the. I'm telling you this, the story, the heart and soul of that movie are those young guys, those. The walkers, the 20 something actors. And I'd never seen, I don't think I'd seen any of them before. And I'm telling you, Willie, this is the next generation of people to watch out for. Because to a person, not just the lead guys, but the supporting people that have one or two lines, even the background artists who have no lines are perfectly cast. And now I had read it, but in the storyline, I'm not with the guys a lot. I show up occasionally. So the real revelation to me was seeing what they go through. It's. It's remarkable. We did that in Winnipeg, back with Stephen King, September.

You're going to be Stephen King's guy now.

Well, you're not careful. But the thing was, when he, when I sat down, he went the major. I thought, how does he even know? They said, oh no. After some early unpleasant experiences. If you, you, if he gives you the rights, he has director approval, script approval, actor approval. And he's really into it. Some authors I'M sure would just take the check and say, well, do what you want. No, he's all over it. And that just surprised me. And of course I wanted to ask him a bunch of questions, but I thought, no, this isn't the time. And to my delight, I just got a book called Stephen King on Writing. Oh, I can't recommend it highly enough because it's like being in his room, being able to ask him all these questions. Where do you get your ideas? And did you mean this by that? He talks about the process. He talks about how he gets ideas, how one idea that is in one novel is reinforced in another novel because he's notorious for taking like a character from, from one property and having him show up Right. Somewhere else.

Right.

But I'm, I'm trying to read it slow because it's so revealing. And it's like I say, after sitting next to him, I said one day we're going to have dinner together, I'm hoping, and I'm going to ask him all these questions I, I want to ask him. And, and this book does it for me.

[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Mark Hamill right after the break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Mark Hamill.

[Mark Hamill]

I was watching these young actors in the film Life of Chuck and thinking about your life and your growth and the way you came up and who you became, right? And thinking about you in this sort of itinerant childhood that you had, I think you went to nine schools in 12 years or whatever the number was. Your dad in the navy, military brat.

All graduating from Yokohama High School.

Yokohama High School, yeah. So how do you find in that life, in that family, which doesn't seem to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, like theatrical or artistic?

Not at all.

Where does that performance come from inside you, that love of being a ventriloquist performer and all the things you like to do?

Well, what you do is you read the script and you say, what is required of my character to make this script work the best it can work? And you know, so I, I had a, a good feeling for that, you know, and I was naturally. You say, well, but I want to work with Karen Gillen and I want to work with Tom and all that. But it's, it was satisfying knowing that if we did our job, if we set up young Chuck's life the way it should be, then that when they get to the next Chuck, Jacob Trembley as the high school Chuck, you know, all's well, and then on to Tom Hiddleston. So I love on big ensemble casts where the weight is not all on, on your shoulders. And you know, again, I can't. I'm so grateful that Mike Flanagan came into my life because, you know, I sort of reached the point where I said, well, I'll still do voiceover, but I don't have the drive or the fire in my belly that I did 20 years ago where I said, oh, get me out on this. And that I thought, you know, this is probably the time where I should spend more time in the backyard with the dogs confiscating neighborhood kids Frisbees when they come over the fence.

Get off my lawn guy.

Yeah. But he gave me a motivation that I thought was long gone because like I say, the sociopathic dead eyed evil lawyer I was playing, that would have been routine in voiceover. They don't care what you look like. They cast with their ears, not their eyes. So the range of characters that you would never get on camera is enormous in voiceover. But this was the first time someone cast me in something that would be routine in voiceover, but on camera because, you know, I can't thank him enough. And again, then he comes back with Life of Chuck, which is so different from Fall of the House of Usher. He's a wonderful person and not just a good director, but a wonderful writer and such a kind man. I mean, when you're on set, he never raises his face voice. He Never curses. He never yells. You just feel like family. It's a safe place to be. And I've worked with some really volatile directors where, you know, they're throwing things, but not this man. I think he's just comfortable in his own skin.

And the product is great. The movie is incredible. You, when you talk about that fire in your belly.

Yeah.

Can you remember where that started for you as a kid? As I mentioned in your childhood, where did you find that love of performance? Do you remember?

Well, two things stick out. I mean, the Walt Disney show, which is on every Sunday under various names. Disneyland, Walt Disney Presents. Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color. When they signed with RCA, when removing color TVs, of course, I saw it in black and white. My father said, color tv, it's a fad. I remember you saying, do you want to watch a color TV where the sky is yellow and the. The grass is blue? Yes, absolutely. I remember sneaking around the neighborhood, jumping fences into the backyards of people who I knew had color TVs and watching through the windows, as, you know, Jeopardy. And I think some of the game shows were in color very early. But that aside, Walt Disney showed how movies were made. He'd do like the Making of Pollyanna or making of Darby O' Gill and the Little People. You know, I'm 5, 6, 7, and this is the first time I'm seeing the camera crew and the construction workers, the grips, the wardrobe, all of it. And I was so wanting to be in a world. I'll tell you one pivotal movie. I saw King Kong, the black and white King Kong on television when I was probably in early grade school. And it wrecked me. It was tragic. I cried my eyes out. They killed Kong. You know, it wasn't his fault. He didn't want to leave the island. And it was on Million Dollar Movies. So it was on Monday through Friday. And I watched the very next night, thinking maybe somehow he could escape the island. You know, I had no idea that it was fixed. And again, I wreck me. And my mom was going, why do you keep doing this to yourself? Just don't watch it. Wednesday I had all my friends in the neighborhood over. I watched it every day because I didn't know they made dinosaurs come to life. And at that age, I was obsessed with dinosaurs. And you couldn't go Google it like now. I went to the library when we were supposed to doing a report on whatever and looked up microfiche of New York Times reviews of King Kong and took notes. Okay, visual effects. Willis o' Brien Model, maker Marcel Delgado. Because I thought, somebody goes to work and makes dinosaurs come to life, I want that job. And I thought. My mom said, look, the odds of you being able to be successful in the show. But it's my dad, too. He said, no, you should either join the Navy or be like your older brother, go to medical school. Because my older brother is Dr. Hamill. The success of the family, because, you know, medicine beats the arts. But I said, you know, I mean, I didn't know whether I wanted to be an actor or what, but I wanted to be in the business of make believe, the escapism business. And I thought, I'm not a bad cook. I could always cater a movie because my mom taught me how to go. I wanted a chemistry set. To tell you the truth. She. My father said, you're going to be making stink bombs, right? I said, no, I just want to. You just want to play with fire. My mom said, you want to learn chemistry? Come in the kitchen. Because, you know, she was the old school where she had to have that dinner on the table. And, you know, I learned how to. Instead of having somebody sat down, a plate of lasagna or a plate of fried chicken. Oh, you soak the chicken overnight in buttermilk. Oh, okay. And you put the spices in the buttermilk and you roll it in the flour, all that stuff. And it was fun for me. And it turned out well because I married an only child who does not know how to cook. I was very jealous of her. She told me that she was allowed to. To drink Pepsi and eat Pop Tarts for breakfast, which would have been so verboten.

I'm looking at her over your shoulder right this very minute. Yeah, there she is.

So I'm still jealous of the lax rules in her household, but it turned out well because I enjoy cooking and I did learn a lot.

And then you had the audacious idea that you could go to LA and be a part of this thing. That was so exciting. Was that a hard decision for you? What did your family say about that?

You're nuts. And it was right at a time that if you didn't get into college, you'd be drafted in the Vietnam War. So lucky for me, because we had no money, I'm a resident of California, so I was able to go to Los Angeles City College, which in those days, $8 and a pen and you're in. And that saved my life because, I mean, you had to take eight and a half units. If you dropped it, they, you know, you could the. The consequences were so high, either college or the jungles of Vietnam. So I was well motivated and. But I just can't believe my luck. For instance, when I graduated from Japan, I. I wanted to go to New York. I said, I'll be a cab driver or waiter and audition for plays and so forth. But my brother was getting married. He wanted me to be the best man. And one of his best friends was Michael Franks, a composer singer who had written an orig that he wanted to go to Broadway. Didn't make it. But what I'm saying is I got a job at Will Wright's ice cream store. I got an apartment, $55 a month, but did this play. And since it was set in Los Angeles, a couple of the actors in the show had parents that were connected to show business. Lori Bogus father, Gil Bogus managed or worked with Neil Diamond. So he saw the show several times. And after one of the shows, he said, you seem like you're really committed to this. Are you? I said, absolutely. That's all I want to do. He said, well, I have a couple of people that you should probably meet, and maybe I can help you get an agent. So I went in, I had a dramatic scene prepared, a comedy scene prepared, and I eventually got an agent. I mean, this is. When I look back, I thought the odds of this happening are astronomical. So I had to stay in school, but they were sending me out on jobs after school. I got a part on. The first thing I did was the Bill Cosby Show. And then I did a show with Andy Griffith. The thing was, I went to. Normally, I said, I can't do this. I have to stay in school. This one part came up and they said, you've got to do this. So I went to the head of the department, Jerry Blunt, and I looked at it as an acting exercise. I based my lie on true facts. Well, my mom's very sick. She's got diabetes. True. And she's going to be going into the hospital. And I. She needs me to look after my younger brothers and sisters. And they say they gave me special compensation to miss five days, to which I went to the Valley and shot this TV show. And I was terrified that I would be discovered. I was doing the Partridge Family. And I would get up at, like, at dark with a sign and a flashlight saying columbia Ranch, because I had no car. I mean, I think about it. It's crazy. I would never let my kids hitchhike. But anyway, I would hitchhike to. And sometimes you get there like an hour and a half early. You don't wanna get there late at all. But one day after shooting, I usually walk a mile away from the studio. Before I started putting my thumb out, a car pulls over. I look down. It's David Cassidy. He goes, come on, what are you doing here? Because I had just done a scene with him, and lying on the spot, I said, oh, my car broke down, so there was no car. He says, well, get in. And he drove me from the valley over Highland, and he got to Sunset. He goes, which way are you going, east or west? I said, I'm going east. He goes, I'm going west. He pulls over and lets me.

Dumps. Yeah.

I told that story to Sean years later. He goes, that's David, because, I mean, it was only two or three miles, right?

He could have.

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, well, you see.

And then the General Hospital, you get an arc on that. The Partridge Family. Like, you're working pretty steadily.

Yeah.

And then this audition comes up for a movie. You never could have imagined what it was gonna become. But Star Wars. How'd you hear about it?

Robert Englund, who played Freddy Krueger, said, have you been out on Star Wars? He was out for Han Solo. He said, I think there's a younger character in it. And so I called my agent. She's been annoyed over the years because in his book, he said, if it weren't for me, Mark would have never been cast. She already had the audition set up, see, for next week. And so I went in and it was just. It was Brian De Palma and George. Brian was looking at people for Carrie, also a Stephen King project. And George was looking at people for Star Wars. So they're like actors that were 16 to 40, you know, for both Luke and Han. But we didn't. They didn't talk about the movie. They just said, well, tell us a little bit about yourself. Which is hard because if you have some indication of what the character's supposed to be like, you can affect those attributes. So I just told him, just like I'm telling you. Well, I went to high school in Japan and blah, blah, blah. You know, five minutes. Thank you very much. And I left. About a month later. They said, you're gonna be testing for the part on video. And it was Harrison playing Han Solo and me playing Luke. Still no script. We got like eight pages. And I'm thinking, is this like a parody? I mean, who talks like this? And I asked Harrison, do you? He was in American Graffiti. You know, George is this sort of Sending up or he's, hey, good, let's just get it done. All right? So he would. No help whatsoever. I went to George, asked him the same question, and he. He kind of froze and said, let's just do it and we'll talk about it later. Translated means let's just do it. We'll never ever about it later. He doesn't like hearing about backstory or motivation. He's a real film director. He comes alive in the editing room. And you know, there are actors, directors and this, and George is not one of them. But I thought, well, you know what? Probably the only smart choice I made was I'm not going to take it upon myself to be arch and ironic and send it up. I'll just be as sincere as possible. And my agent said, how did it go? I said, I have no clue. A lot of times you say, oh, well. They laughed at the lines and applauded at the end here, no clue. They said, thank you. And I left. About a month later, they said, you got it. We're sending you the script. And Mouly, I'll tell you, I'll never forget reading that script for the first time after only reading eight pages. I was just blown away. And I thought, well, wait a second. Harrison's the leading man in the screen test. I appeared as though I were the annoying sidekick because he was cool as could be and cynical and a womanized, all these things. And I was like, you know, over enthusiastic and all that nonsense. So I thought the title page said, the Adventures of Luke Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Wills Saga Number one, the Star Wars. And I thought, well, I guess Harrison is Lou. Cause I'd forgotten from the screen test, which is weeks and weeks before. But very early on I went, oh, my God, it's through the eyes of a teenager. It's almost like a gender switch on wizard of Oz. Dorothy's in a drab place and wants to go wherever the excitement is. And that happens to Luke. And I'm thinking, this really isn't science fiction. There's a princess, there's a pirate, there's a wizard, there's a tin man. You know, there's a Wookiee and all that. I said, it's much more a fairy tale than it is science fiction. And it was funny. I mean, the robots arguing over whose fault it is. I mean. And I realize I'm the straight man. I'm setting them up for the laughs. To R2. You know that friend of yours? No, to 3PO, you know that droid of yours is going to get me into a lot of trouble. Oh, he excels at that, sir. So, I mean, they got the laughs, but it just tickled me. And one thing that impressed me was how effortlessly feminist it was. Princess Leia is completely uncowed by. I mean, she's sticking her nose in his face and, you know, giving them great sass. And when we try and rescue her, we're horrible at it. She takes over her own rescue. You call this a rescue? Give me that gun. She makes Han and Luke look like such chumps. And she's very effective in. She's no damsel in distress, that's for sure. And I thought, I love that because again, it's not pounding you over the head and telling you that she's not a damsel in distress. It's showing you. You know, even without John Williams music or all those special effects, I just, it was exhilarating and I thought, wow, this, this thing is going to be such a winner. I asked Carrie and Harrison what they thought and Carrie said, well, maybe there's a chance. And Harrison, whatever.

[Willie Geist]

Stick around for more of my conversation with Mark Hamill right after a quick break.

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[Mark Hamill]

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Mark Hamill.

[Mark Hamill]

You know, it's funny, I'm struck listening to you over the years talk about what this movie became and saying you thought the script was great, you believed in it.

Yeah.

But you thought maybe it ends up being a cult class like Rocky Horror Picture show or one of those. So how do you begin to grapple with what happens after the fact when it comes into theaters and there are lines around the block for weeks and months?

The thing is, I watch Saturday Night Live every week since the George Carlin very first episode. I never saw one ad on snl. I never saw one ad on TV at all. I think there were newspaper ads. There might have been a billboard. But here's my point. On the day it opened, it was May 25, 1977. They were coming to pick me up to dub the 35 millimeter print because they were putting the 70 millimeter prints into only like 16 theaters. My numbers might be a little off, but it didn't go wide. But here's my point. I said to the driver, can we drive by Gramen's Chinese? Because I hadn't seen it and that's where it was playing. They argued so much over the poster. There was no poster. You know, they couldn't figure out how to promote it. One was, you know, very serious. An entertainment odyssey beyond your imagination. The others promoted it more like Little Rascals in Outer Space, you know, but they couldn't settle on it. So when they opened, they just had lobby cards, you know, color photographs of scenes from the movie. But here's my point. When we go by Garland sharks, there are lines around the block. Day one, first show. Because my, I mean, my recording session was I think 11 or one. So it was the very first show. I thought, well, this must be the hardcore people. Any genre film that's science fiction or fantasy has a certain following that will turn out right away. The problem is, if it's not good, it drops off. But from that day one, it. It just, you know, I remember thinking the first time I saw an editorial cartoon that had Darth Vader in it, I said, wow, see, that's. That's expanding to the world of politics. And they're commenting on a politician who is dark and scary. Right. But I, you know, I never realized that it would become a full blown cultural phenomenon.

What was it like to be you through that? Run through those three movies from 77 to 83, which is you come from a family with no connection to show business. You didn't grow up this way.

Right.

You were relatively unknown to the public actor before Star wars. And now you're one of the most famous people on earth. How did you handle that?

You just try and reassure yourself that nothing's changed. I mean, I haven't changed. People around me are going nuts. But. And fortunately I went into another film about a month into the run, which was shot on various locations. And so you were sort of away from seeing it on a day to day basis. But you know, it was sort of like playing like. I remember when I first saw Hard Day's Night. I was like 11 and I'm thinking, look at them. The girls are chasing them down the street and screaming and adoring them. I said, oh, I want that flash forward 30 years. I see it again. It's like a horror movie. They're trapped. They can't go anywhere. They're in a car and a studio and a car and a hotel room. They have no lives. They can't go anywhere. They can't walk out outside without being, you know, set upon. So, you know, your point of view changes over the years. I mean, it's fun. I love the fans. I. We have problems because now we're the victims I would call of the merchandising world. There's a lot of money in merchandising. So they're at the airport, they're, you know, you go out, what, we've been followed in our car. Where they at red lights, rush the cars with lightsabers and all that. And they're not fans, they're dealers. Those things are going to be on ebay before you get home. And it's just something, it's really terrible, but it's just comes with the territory, I guess. You just have to live with it. And you never know where they're going to show up. I mean, when we landed at the airport, they were out on the tarmac. Said, how did they get out on the tarmac? How did they know we were on this flight? I don't know. But.

But I will say, you watching you, you embrace the Luke Skywalker. There are people who say, well, that was me. Then you have really thrown your arms around the real fans and the experience.

To a certain extent. Carrie came to see me in a play on Broadway. And she goes, she comes backstage at the end, she goes, what's with your bio? I said, what's wrong with my bio? And I listed all my theater credits, every single one of them. And at the end I said something along the lines of. And he's also known for a series of popular space movies without ever mentioning the actual titles. And she said, get over yourself. Look, I'm Princess Leia. You're Luke Skywalker. Get used to it. And I went, you know, she was always a little ahead of the curve. You know, she's so smart. And I saw the way she handled it, and I thought, you know what? I should enjoy this. What territory do I occupy that nobody else does? Enjoy that. I mean, people work all their lives and aren't remembered for anything. I mean, and I never expected to be, that's for sure. All I wanted was to be able to continue to work in a job I loved, and this was it. I was thrilled.

And you're talking about your Broadway run. You did Elephant man and Amadeus and these other shows, and showing that I'm not just the blockbuster space movie guy. Look at what else I can do. I was thinking about, I had Daniel Radcliffe on this show a few years back. It's not a dissimilar experience, which is he starts with Harry Potter and then almost works backwards exactly the way a career would normally work. You and he both have kind of done the inverse.

Yeah, I'm sure we'd have a lot to talk about, but. And what was interesting, I went to Broadway to try and be seen in character parts that people wouldn't ordinarily think of me for. And I guess I did seven, eight shows, one off Broadway, but. And all character parts except for one. And then I went back, I auditioned, I said, oh, this animated Batman. I see the people they're putting together. These are smart people that have experience writing for DC for many years, and Bruce Timm's involved, Paul Dini. I said, this is going to be a cut above. I think they're going to try and make this one of those bridge shows that appeals to younger people, but writes up to them and hopefully draws in college to students and young parents and so forth. This isn't going to be, you know, the Saturday morning Super Friends. So I said, I'd love to play a villain. That's never been done before, you know, because I was a real fan of the Adam West, Burt Ward version when I was a teenager, and I thought, well, Clayface or Rasha Ghoul or something like that. And they said, well, they want to see you for the Joker. And I thought, I mean, that's dangerous, because already there's Cesar Romero and, oh, my God, Jack Nicholson. How can I ever top that? It's interesting because the copy I read when I auditioned had only three words. They had a black and white drawing of him standing there with that big screen and his finger like that. And the only words at the Top of the page were don't think Nicholson. So. And I wouldn't do that anyway. I mean, I wouldn't want to imitate someone that great. And I had added confidence because it was about a month after all the fans freaked out over Michael Keaton being cast as Batman. Oh, he's Mr. Mom. He can't be Batman. They hadn't seen an inch of film. But the fans are really volatile that way. And I said, if they think they freaked out over Michael Keaton being Batman, how are they going to feel about Luke Skywalker being the Joker? They'll lynch me. But what I'm saying is, it gave me a confidence because I knew I couldn't get it. A lot of times, Willie, when you want a part, a neediness can show through that makes people uncomfortable or throws your timing off. I tell young actors, act like you don't care. Be aloof. The aloofer the better, as they say in Sweet Charity. And. But in this case, I thought, well, since I can't get it, I'm gonna make him really sorry they can't hire me. And so I went in there and I just let loose. And I didn't care because I knew I couldn't get it, of course. And I was so cocky. I'm driving away going, top that. Find a better joker than that. When my agent said, they want you for the Joker, I went, oh, no, I can't do it of this. I said, I don't even remember what I did. It was a month ago. I mean, they calmed me down when I went in for the first time. And Andrea Romano said, no, we have your audition here. Listen to the tape. This is what you did. And again, it was. It really was a. A seismic change in my career because people were going, that Mark Hamill, Luke, you know, that's the problem. You get associated with. With one thing, and they think that's all you can do. And it just opened up a world of character parts and voiceover things because, you know, they cast with their ears, not their eyes. You're able to play so many characters you'd never get if you were on camera. And I loved it. I mean, first of all, the voiceover community welcomes you once they know you're serious and you're on time and you don't have. Have minders and show up late and all that in a limo or whatever. You just, you know, if you're working stiff, they love you. And like I say, I never got to do dialects on camera, you know, but I played you know, I did Australian. I did cockney. I did, you know, standard English. You know, you could do anything you want as long as you. You fit what it looks like. So I said, where has this been all my life? I mean, even more than Broadway, which is really. I mean, you have to want to do Broadway. It's a grind, eight a week, but with voiceover, it's fantastic. I mean, you don't have to memorize your lines. You read them, you can come in looking like hell, because they don't care what you look like. They carry a sound. And I said, I don't care if I'm ever on camera again. And it was really. I learned that, that I don't need the recognition or applause. I just like working. And I mean, I did it from the early 90s. I'm still doing it, but you've had plenty of that.

Star wars gave you enough of that on camera, and now you're able to flex all these other muscles.

Exactly.

So our time is short. I know you've got to run, and I appreciate all your time. You've said recently that, that you're done with Star Wars. Is that safe to say?

I don't want to make a big pronouncement like this is my decision. I'm just saying that it really felt like a conclusion. They. I. My. My character was given complete closure. I died, ironically, by overdosing on the Force, I might point out. But, you know, that seemed to be. And once that Skywalker trilogy was over, it was a whole new era for them. George gave them this amazing canvas, the entire galaxy. They can do westerns, mysteries, comedies, you know, whodunits. Anything within that realm of the Star Wars. And they're doing so well. I love Rogue One, Mandalorian Book of Boba Fett. I just think it's time I had my time. I. I'm really appreciative, but I'm really looking to the future for all these new projects. But I do know when I mention anything about the space movies, it gets extra scrutiny as opposed to me talking about anything else. And I, I said that, and then I saw headlines. You know, Mark Hamill quit Star Wars. Well, let. Let me say they haven't asked me. It's not like they said, please come.

Back talk, and Luke died. There's that, too.

So there's what?

That your character died?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, come on, how much can you do with a Force?

Ghost Mark, it's a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for the time and thank you for all the memories and the movies and including your latest which people are going to absolutely love.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

Enjoy it.

Thanks.

[Willie Geist]

My big thanks again to Mark for a great conversation from a lifelong fan.

[Mark Hamill]

He has given us so much joy.

[Willie Geist]

Over the years with Star wars movies and beyond. You can see his new film the Life of Chuck in theaters now. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of our conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews in color with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geis.

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Christ.

[Willie Geist]

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Hershey's Advertiser]

Hershey's Milk Chocolate with Whole Almonds makes for a wholly amazing, wholly delicious experience that's well holy Hershey's, everyone, to get to experience the satisfying surprise of a whole almond tucked inside the creamy Hershey's Chocolate. So don't wait your whole life to try Hershey's Milk Chocolate with Whole Almonds. And if you've already had it, then chances are you're already a lifelong fan of this confectionary delight. Find Hershey's Milk Chocolate with Whole Almonds wherever candy is sold.