Matthew McConaughey on True Heroism in ‘The Lost Bus,’ Acting With His Family, and Lessons That Last

Summary

Podcast Summary: Matthew McConaughey on True Heroism in ‘The Lost Bus,’ Acting With His Family, and Lessons That Last

Podcast: Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Episode Air Date: October 12, 2025
Host: Willie Geist
Guest: Matthew McConaughey

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Willie Geist sits down with Matthew McConaughey to discuss his latest film, The Lost Bus, the real-life heroism that inspired it, acting alongside his son and mother, and his continuing literary journey with his new book Poems and Prayers. The conversation covers McConaughey’s reflections on heroism, creative risk, cynicism in the culture, and the importance of belief and ethical foundations in personal and public life.

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The Lost Bus: True Heroism in the Face of Disaster

[03:54 - 13:32]

• Intro to The Lost Bus

  • The film is based on the 2018 Campfire in Paradise, California, the state’s worst wildfire.
  • McConaughey plays Kevin McKay, a school bus driver who risked his life to save 23 stranded children and a teacher.
  • The movie, described as “part horror movie” and “the best fire movie I’ve ever seen” [06:26], dramatizes a harrowing true story of improvisation, duty, and survival.

• The Real-Life Kevin McKay

  • McConaughey recounted his conversations with Kevin, noting the ordinary sense of duty that underpinned his heroism:

    “He wasn't looking to be a hero that day. ...They found themselves in a circumstance and they chose to run towards the crisis instead of away from it. And, you know, that's a heroic act.” [07:44]

  • Lack of communication, fear for his family’s safety, and moments of resignation were real challenges for Kevin, informing McConaughey’s performance.

• Portraying Survival and Choice

  • The film viscerally captures the terror of being trapped and facing imminent death:

    “If you want to get through hell, sometimes you got to drive right down the throat of the dragon, not wait on it, not be passive at all.” [11:57]

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Family On and Off Screen

[15:18 - 22:12]

• Acting With Son Levi

  • Levi plays McConaughey’s son in the film, with a dynamic very different from their real-life relationship, adding emotional depth to the performance.

    “We have such a good bond in real life. ...he felt like he had the freedom to go there and not be like, wait, I can’t go to that space.” [15:43]

  • McConaughey emphasizes professional boundaries and pride in his son’s on-set independence.

• Nepotism and Earning It

  • Despite helping Levi get his foot in the door, McConaughey wanted his son’s talent, not his name, to earn him roles:

    “I said, I think it’s good enough for a callback... but pull his last name... I don’t want his last name helping him get the job.” [19:13]

• Three Generations On Set

  • McConaughey’s mother also appears, playing his character’s mother—leading to a rare three-generational on-screen family:

    “I was told... it hasn’t been three generations in a scene like that together since the Douglas family. ...it’s going to outlive us...” [21:34]

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The McConaissance & Risk in Career Choices

[22:12 - 27:22]

• Leaving the Rom-Com Comfort Zone

  • McConaughey discusses leaving behind romantic comedies at the height of his popularity to pursue more meaningful roles—despite risking his Hollywood status:

    “I wish my work could be as vital as my life feels right now. ...Those were dramas. Those are not getting offered to me. So I was succeeding. ...but something’s not as full.” [23:04]

  • Rebranding wasn’t easy; Hollywood was skeptical until his persistence forced them to see him in a new light:

    “Turning down the $14.5 million offer was a big thing... I became more interesting with the time away... it was non branding unbranding phase...” [25:16]

• Prepared for Change & New Paths

  • He was prepared to leave acting if necessary for something that felt more fulfilling, accepting risk for greater personal and professional alignment.

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Literary Life: Poems and Prayers and the Pursuit of Belief

[27:22 - 29:47]

• How the New Book Differs from Greenlights
  • Greenlights was chronological and story-driven; Poems and Prayers focuses on “ways of stirring up and reviving belief in ourselves, which I believe is in short supply.” [27:48]
  • The book arises from McConaughey’s struggles with self-doubt and the dangers of cynicism:

    “If we let doubt win, we’re all going to lose.” [29:33]

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On Cynicism, Division, and Rebuilding Belief

[31:32 - 41:27]

• Fighting Cynicism and Collectivism

  • McConaughey rails against resignation and the cynicism he sees in American and global culture, emphasizing that “America’s a verb,” and the pursuit of improvement is essential:

    “You become a cynic, early death. It means you quit to some extent. ...Cynics are clever... but they quit.” [31:48, 32:38]

  • He observes that culture now rewards knee-jerk opposition rather than true understanding:

    “They’re out to seek contrast before comparison. ...That’s short term thinking.” [33:04]

• On Ethics, Progress, and the ‘Armies of Us’

  • McConaughey calls for a rebellion—not just passive optimism—against extremes and nihilism:

    “There has to be... an ethical, moral bottom line to some things that can stand, that we can trust…” [35:09] “I think it’s gonna be a punk rock rebellion... not a Kumbaya Namaste, let’s be peaceful and see what happens.” [37:14]

  • He urges self-policing, introspection, and delayed gratification for better collective outcomes:

    “That’s the sweet spot.” [41:10]

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Discussing Leadership, Responsibility, and the “Middle Lane”

[41:27 - 43:30]

• On Political Ambition and Voice
  • When asked about running for office, McConaughey remains open but believes his current platform is best:

    “I think this is the best lane. But I’m open to that... Where I can be most useful, where my voice and understanding can be most useful.” [41:39]

  • He distinguishes the “middle of the road” as not passivity, but strategic flexibility:

    “It’s actually a strategic position to be able to go left and right when you need... it’s an aggressive, really aggressive position.” [42:44]

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Heroism:

  “They found themselves in a circumstance and they chose to run towards the crisis instead of away from it. And, you know, that's a heroic act.” — Matthew McConaughey [07:44]

• On Risk-Taking:

  “I was succeeding. ...but something’s not as full. The tank’s not as full in here as I want it to be. So I took the risk...” — Matthew McConaughey [23:04]

• On Cynicism:

  “Cynics are clever. ...but they quit. ...It’s easy to be cynical, easy to be snark. ...But you quit believing and you start going, ah, hey...” — Matthew McConaughey [32:38]

• On Belief:

  “We need belief. It’s in short supply. ...If we let doubt win, we’re all going to lose.” — Matthew McConaughey [29:33]

• On Ethics and Progress:

  “Progress isn’t saying yes to every damn new idea and forget everything in the past. It’s also not saying ...I don’t want any change. That’s not progress either.” — Matthew McConaughey [35:09]

• On the Middle Path:

  “It’s actually a strategic position to be able to go left and right when you need... it’s an aggressive, really aggressive position.” — Matthew McConaughey [42:44]

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Final Notes, Tone, and Takeaways

• Tone and Delivery:
  McConaughey remains reflective, candid, and optimistic, blending philosophical musings with relatable anecdotes and plainspoken wisdom.
• Key Themes:
  • True heroism is found in ordinary people stepping up in extraordinary situations.
  • Questioning cynicism and division is an act of rebellion for our time.
  • Faith, ethics, and personal accountability are essential to progress.
  • Taking creative and personal risks brings greater fulfillment than simply coasting on “success.”
• Closing:
  The episode wraps up with a brief discussion of Texas football, closing on a note of optimism and McConaughey’s trademark easy-going humor.

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For Listeners:
This episode is rich in behind-the-scenes filmmaking, personal and philosophical insights, and McConaughey’s call for integrity, engagement, and hope. It’s both a look at a powerful real-life story and a meditation on living meaningfully in divisive times.

Transcript

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[Willie Geist]

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. It is always a good day when I can tell you I have a conversation with Academy award winner Matthew McConaughey. This is the third time he's been on our show. The first time was back in 2020, right at the height of COVID when he came out with his memoir Green Lights, which went on to sit on the New York Times bestseller list for almost two years. Incredible. Now he's out with another book called Poems and Prayers, which kind of gets at a conversation around the soul of who we are, who we want to be right now, how divided we may feel, but the common ground that Matthew sees and the kind of the way out of this predicament we find ourselves in.

[Interviewer]

It's a.

[Willie Geist]

It's a really good conversation about staying engaged, staying hopeful, staying optimistic, and kind of getting together on some things in the way that only Matthew McConaughey can describe. That's a great part of the conversation. The other part is about his new film. It's called the Lost Bus on Apple tv. Plus it is a movie based on a true story around the 2018 Campfire, which was California's largest ever wildfire. And it focuses on the story of a real life school bus driver in Paradise, California, the town that was devastated by the wildfire. His name is Kevin McKay. He was picked up the dispatch go pick up a group of kids who are stranded at their School basically go save their lives. He made the decision to answer that call, went and picked up these kids, and then spends an entire day driving around trying to get away from these flames, trying to find a way to safety for all these kids, along with a teacher on the bus played by America Ferreira. It is a harrowing movie. And when you think that it was based on a true story, it's all the more incredible. So he's great in that we talk about his career. Of course, you know it by now in 93. He starts with days and confused. All right, all right, all right. And all of that and the rest is history. Has a great run of romantic comedies before, kind of taking a couple of years away from the spotlight to sort of, I don't know, think about who he wanted to be in Hollywood, rebrand a little bit and come back as a dramatic actor and have this great, great run. You think about True Detective and Interstellar and then the movie for which he won the Academy Award in 20 movie called Dallas Buyers Club. He's had a great career. Now he's got this other side of himself that's an author, he's a thinker. People have wanted him to run for office. And I think that all comes through in our conversation. So sit back, relax, and enjoy. Right now. Matthew McConaughey on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

[Interviewer]

Matthew, thanks for doing this. Good to see you again.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Good to see you again.

[Interviewer]

Got so much to talk to you about. We can wait. Texas football can come at the end if you want. We'll hang on to that one. But I have to start with the movie the Lost Bus, which I was just telling you I finished like an hour ago. So I'm still, still absorbing it all.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, I'm shaking it out a little bit.

[Interviewer]

People Remember the campfire, November 2018. The worst wildfire in the history of California consumed the town of Paradise. But this is a very specific story that most people didn't know. So who is your character and what happens if you can just set the scene?

[Matthew McConaughey]

So there was a, a lot of heroes that day. There were a lot of people who didn't plan on being heroes that acted heroically. Jamie Lee Curtis heard this story on NPR called Jason Bloom produced. They got a script together, went to Paul Greengrass. He came to me with this. There was a story that we tell of a man who had come home in our story because his father died, can take care of his mom as a widow, reconcile relationship with his son from a previous marriage, takes a part time job as a school Bus driver in town takes kids to school that day. About to go pick them up in the afternoon, drop them off. The fires are coming over the canyon. They'd done that many times before. Wasn't a big deal. All of a sudden, boom. The first responders who went up there to put the fire out noticed that the fire had jumped the canyon. Whoa. Mandatory evacuation of Paradise. First responders are coming back to get back in town to put the fire out while you've got a mandatory evacuation. Not a good combination. Outgoing incoming traffic. At the time of the mandatory evacuation, this. This guy that I play that we're telling the story about is headed home in the bus to go pick get his mom and son because they can't drive. Either one of them wants to go save them. And just as he makes that decision to do that, it comes through bus Dispatch. I've got 23 kids stranded on the east side of town. Is anybody over there with an empty bus? Well, guess who's got an empty bus. This guy, Kevin. So what do you do? What's the choice you make? This man chose to go pick up the kids. When he got there, he picked them up in the bus. And also the teacher, Mary Ludwig, who's played by America Ferreira, boards the bus. And this is the story of the next six to eight hours of their life and what happens. And that's the story we chose to tell. As you. You saw it. It's a. It's part horror movie.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I think it's the best fire movie I've ever seen. And I've seen the fire is such a predator in this thing. Makes you want to almost run from it. And you're in your. And you're in your seat in the theater. It's a big, beautiful, epic, you know, action film. And at the heart of it, it's a great human drama about these two people with these 23 kids on the bus. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So to be clear for the audience, in case I wasn't. This is a true story.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, this is something based on a true story. This. This happened. We told based on the facts of this true story.

[Interviewer]

And you got a chance to talk to Kevin, spend some time around him.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Hear about what he went through that day, but also where he was in his life in that time. What were those conversations like with him?

[Matthew McConaughey]

So I think the. The most important ones for me is I sat with him, and he. And he retold me the day a couple of times, and he would have specific points where I. He'd have to catch his Breath. Like when he noticed that this is not just a regular fire that's coming across canyon. This looks different. It looks worse. Oh, me. Oh, I got to take things into my own hands, so to speak. When he made. And how he made the decision to go get those kids and how almost utilitarian. My job. Simple. It's my job. We got to give almost more credit because that's not a dry sort of platitude answer. A lot of people on that day did heroic things. And a lot of people do heroic things in life when they go. Was my duty. That's what I was supposed to do. He wasn't looking to be a hero that day. Mary L was looking to be a hero. First responders are heroic in that they get called when there's a crisis and they go out to try and abate it. These A lot of people in life like Kevin and Mary in this story, we're not looking to be a hero, not trained to be a hero. They found themselves in a circumstance and they chose to run towards the crisis instead of away from it. And, you know, that's a heroic act. Listen him tell those stories. The fear of not having any communication. Cell service. The cell towers are burned down. Dispatch. There's no cb, whatever, radio service. You couldn't talk. You couldn't. There's no communication with the outside world. He didn't know if his mom was okay, his son was okay. Didn't know. Flying in the dark. He didn't know if the nectar he was driving over had worse fires than the ones he was leaving from. So the improvisation that he pulled, the fear of the unknown, the anger he had, the frustration, the sense of, what else can I do?

[Interviewer]

Is this it?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Listening to him retell those stories informed a lot of sort of where I was and what I did with the performance.

[Interviewer]

What did you pick up in terms of his reaction to the fact that there's a movie being made about his experience that day and he's being played by Matthew McConaughey.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know, after the first sort of giggles and jokes about who to thunk, they make a movie about and picked up my particular story and that you're playing me. After we got past that, it was very much after 20 seconds. He's honored. Probably a little wary at the beginning, as anyone rightfully is. If someone's coming to tell a story based on your life of that day and talk about a personal story, that's your personal story. So you don't want to probably. I'm supposing there's some feeling of like, I don't want to feel trespassed upon in the wrong way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

But that was never the intent. I think that was Jamie Lee who, you know, who found this story and went to him and the real life Mary Ludwig. Talk about the story we wanted to tell about how it wasn't going to be a biography, it wasn't a documentary on what they did that day, but it was going to capture the spirit me based on their experience that day. We were never set out to do a gotcha or to tell a version that would be inappropriate or irresponsible to what they did. And they understood that, believe that. And that's true. So, you know, he saw the film. I talked to him after, after the premiere in Toronto and he seemed, you know, honored by it and looking at it with level head. It'll be interesting. Talk to him in a year after people see the film and talk about it and go, hey, you're Kevin.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

What does that become, you know, when all of a sudden strangers are coming up to you that you don't know, but they know you.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That'll be interesting to see.

[Interviewer]

And he's gone on and become a teacher and continued his care for children.

[Matthew McConaughey]

A great relationship, the son.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So this movie, in terms of being an action thriller movie, you're driving through what feels like a maze of fire. Your character is. And just looking for an exit. And every once in a while you go through a fence or something, you go, this is it. More fire.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I just cannot imagine he had to be brave up there. But the terror he was feeling, knowing not only his life was at risk, but he's got those 22 kids back there too.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. And how many times it looked like a dead end, how many times it looked like, ah, this is the escape route. We'll be fine. Once we get to this point that. No. To find out the fires that already spread there as well. And then you get towards, you know, what part of the story where it's on all four sides and it appears to be an absolute dead end. Unless you can fly, which they can.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Heat exhaustion. Fire there. Fire there. Fire there. Fire behind us. Let's just sit here, hope, pray. Maybe the winds change, maybe rains, I don't know. And then what do you do? In this story, this was. If you want to get through hell, sometimes you got to drive right down the throat of the dragon, not wait on it, not be passive at all. But that, you know, to be on death's doorstep like that. But to look that dragon in the eye and go, we're gonna, we're gonna find out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Because it was that, that, that was a dead end road. Yeah. So I'm gonna go out raging and see what happens there.

[Interviewer]

Couple moments in there that look and feel maybe like resignation but just for a minute. And he's kind of stealing himself.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

To get back after that dragon. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And because logically, I mean he, I'm sure he did have some resignation along the way. And I know he did. The way I portrayed him at places where it's all for naught. Done all I can. There's not another exit. We can't dig a hole and we can't fly. And 4 dimensionally 360 we are surrounded. Go where? Maybe the best thing is to sit here. The fires aren't here yet, but they're right over there coming over the hill. Which they find out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Matthew McConaughey right after the break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Matthew McConaughey.

[Interviewer]

One of the beautiful parts about this story, because there is a father son dynamic to it, is that your own Son. Levi is your son in the film. What was that like for you? Not just to have your son in a film, but also to have that powerful and relationship that's full of strife and trying to find it again together. What was that like?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, it was unemotionally very professional. At the same time, there was an extra sort of soul to it for me. One in that the relationship we have in the film is not good at all. Very different than thankful to say, than our relationship in real life. I've since talked to and talk to him beforehand. Levi and I talked about it. About how no go all the way there with how much you despise and hate who I am as your father in the movie because we have such a good bond in real life. You can go. He felt like he had the freedom to go there and not be like, wait, I can't go to that space. You know, it was able to go because our relationship is so healthy in real life. Look, did a lot of those scenes for me choosing to go back and pick up mom and Kevin. A lot of quite a few scenes in there where I was, you know, our embrace at the end, coming together where. Yeah, I was thinking about what if I was in that circumstance, want to get back to my own children and then to have them right over there on. On set. They were there, you know, I didn't need a photograph. They were there to think about the pain of leaving. What if the last time you left your child, you were in a big row, you're in a fight, you went out at each other and you know, that may be the last time you see him. The regret of that, the will to survive even more so you don't end it like that. The pain of. But that is how it probably it ends. All that played in and you know, it was. It felt very professional doing it with him though. He. I got to say, once he. Once he got the part and I talked to him about, I said, look, you know, I can help coach you, I can help teach you what I can. I go, but once we show up on the day, once you show up on the day, you got to own your man. I'm not there as a safety net. And he showed up. I remember how he got in the car that morning, almost had a little shoulder closed to me looking out the window. And I was like, okay, there we go. That's what I wanted to see. Yeah. He was not looking at me to go, no last minute check ins. No like, hey, is it okay? How'd I do he worked with the director and I sat back as a proud dad going, there we go.

[Interviewer]

So is he off and running? So you want to do what dad does?

[Matthew McConaughey]

So far he's leaning into it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Got another role, Way of the warrior kid that'll be out next year. A really nice role in that. I went with him for six weeks, stayed in hotel rooms together and drove to work together to work and from work. And he enjoyed it. He did good. And he's looking at this as you know right now part of the journey that a really cool part of the journey that he has in his life. Will it be something that he ends up pursuing, you know, as a full on profession? I don't know. I'm not putting that pressure on him either way. But he's off to a great start. And he's in the door. He's in the door and that's such a hard part in this business to get in the door. And you know, to the as far as nepotism goes for me that's as come in And I always say, you know, don't you ever feel entitled, we'll help you get in some doors. Once you're in the door you got to handle your stuff. That's why when he got though when he read for this role in Lost Bus I sent it to the casting director. I said I think it's good enough for a call back. And she said I think it's good enough to send to the director. And I went great. And then I went oh, but pull his last name if you get it. Or he doesn't get it. But even, especially if he got it, I don't want him ever thinking did the last name and I don't want his last name helping him get the job.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And especially I don't want him ever thinking in the back of his mind did I get that? Maybe partially because that's why we didn't name him Matthew. Matthew junior. That's a lot. We named him Levi, which is another name for Matthew. But anyway and then the director saw it, said that's the kid. So he got it on his own merit and he's in the door and he enjoys it. He's still learning about it. I try to do my best, teach and coach him. Probably overcoached him a couple times.

[Interviewer]

Oh yeah, we do that as dad.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm probably, I'm put him in a scene or do. I'm like, I think I gave him too much to think about. Damn it.

[Interviewer]

You know, somebody go he's Good. He can do it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Go. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And your mom is in it too. As your mom. She was great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

93.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matthew McConaughey]

She can find energy, especially if she gonna be in front of a camera. She. Paul was looking for a role. He had cast the mother, but the scenes didn't work and they needed to be rewritten. And he said, you know, I think I want to recast. He says, what about your mom? I was like, well, it's a good idea, but let me, let me get her in front of camera on. He was like, okay. So I said, mom, send me a minute tape on why you love being a mother. Well, she sent me an eight minute tape and I showed it to Paul and he was like, that's perfect. That's your mom. I said, well, she just took a fall at my older brother's house and broke her tailbone, so she's in a wheelchair. He was like, well, that's even better for the role.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So she came, moved out there with us in New Mexico. We were shooting, went to work, got to be a diva, played a role.

[Interviewer]

She got her own trailer, the whole thing.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Oh, that dude.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I sat back, man, There was like, it was her show. You know what?

[Interviewer]

I didn't know that was your mom going in. She was a natural, I thought. I mean, she played it really well.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How much fun little family reunion on the set.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I was told, and I don't know if this is true. Maybe we can fact check it that it hasn't been three generations in a scene like that together since the Douglas family. Oh, wow. So it's something that is really cool. But it's gonna be cooler over time. Yeah, yeah. Because it's gonna outlive us, you know what I mean? And it's there. So that's right. Look. And you just pictures me. We got to go to Toronto Film Festival and premiere the thing. And to have my mom here and my son here and be in the middle as a bridge with those generations doing something that became a career for me that 1992, I didn't know if it was going to be a weekend hobby that turned out to be a career. Very cool.

[Interviewer]

Very cool, Very cool. This lost bus is your Latest. Over like 15 years now. I think we can stop calling it the McConnasance. That's an old story. I think you are this guy now. You've done all these incredible dramatic role, won the Academy Award for Dallas Buyers Club. And as a lot of people know, this was very intentional that you kind of stopped down, took a break For a couple years. Left la, moved to Texas. Just kind of checked in and asked what you wanted out of this deal and what Hollywood expected you to be given your success. Now, 15 years later with that decision, what do you think is the lesson in that for other people?

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Success, profit, quantity, quality.

[Interviewer]

Success.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Measurable in the head up, choosing numbers. It's usually quantity. Profit usually measured here, heart and soul. And that's the measure, Quality. I was successful, but I didn't feel like I was making a profit. I was doing work. I was a king of rom coms. Loved. I liked doing them, but they weren't. Something was keeping me up at night, going. I wish my work could be as vital as my life feels right now. I wish I could feel as much in my work. Can it challenge the feelings that I'm getting in my life at that time? Camille and I are in love. She's pregnant. So I'm turned on. Life is. Life's on fire. Right, dad? To be. And my work felt like I could do that. That role tomorrow. I was like, that's okay, but I want to. I'd like to find roles. I'm like, that scares the you know what out of me. I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I can't wait to find out. Those were dramas. Those are not getting offered to me. So I was succeeding. Made all the sense. My brothers were even like, when I took the time off, they're like, what is your major malfunction, little brother? You're making good money, man. You're doing. What are you doing? But in the dark of night, in here, I was still saying, ah, something's not complete. Something's not as full. The tank's not as full in here as I want it to be. So I took the risk. Try and succeed and profit, you know, to match quantity of success with the quality of success, that gave me value. And that's what. That's the risk I took. And those roles came and that's exactly what I felt. I started to feel a success with profit.

[Interviewer]

I love what you say. You go away just long enough to where Hollywood thought, oh, Matthew McConaughey, that's a new good idea.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It became, I think I gained some anonymity. Yeah, it was almost two years that I was out and I didn't want to be out two years. Trust me, I was waiting for just an offer and I'll take a pay cut just to get in. Some of those dramas I wanted to do, they were not offering them. So after 20 months of not being in the theater in a rom com, of not being in your living room, of not also, I think seeing me on the beach shirtless and.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Which kind of look like the sister of the rom com. It's like, oh, the daylife and the. And the. And what I've seen on screen, they're very similar. You didn't see any of that. So where was. I think turning down the $14.5 million offer was a big thing too, because that let some people know, oh, he's not bluffing. And when you got someone that you know they're not bluffing, you start to go, what are they doing over there? They're not just receiving. They got a plan. They're playing offense. He turned on 145 and he worked in two years. I know the guy would like the money. He said no. What's he up to? I think that became. I became more interesting with the time away. 20 minutes. It also. 20 months. It also became, you know who'd be a new novel original idea for a Lincoln lawyer, A killer Joe, a mud. A Magic Mike, a down Spiders club. A true detective, that run of Wolf of Wall street. Hey, Matthew McConaughey. So it was non branding unbranding phase before I rebranded.

[Interviewer]

And it was a little risky because there's a chance Hollywood never would let you out of your lane, Right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

They weren't. And I thought I was. I was shaking hands with the fact that I had written a one way ticket out of Hollywood and I was looking at other vocations. I thought about going back to law school. I thought about becoming a teacher, thought about becoming a wildlife guide. Because I was like, you rolled the dice. And Hollywood said, no thanks, we're not playing, playing with you anymore. So I was like, I didn't regret if I was gonna have to do that. That's the one thing the going back, I was never gonna go back and do. I would. I had written, I had written my own non negotiable contract with myself and Camilla. And I had, you know, he's like, that's the decision. We're sticking to it no matter how long it takes, even if it takes so long that we got to find something else to do in life.

[Interviewer]

And here you are, given all the success you've had since then, including Green Lights and your new book, Poems and Prayers, which kind of continues this idea that you started in Green Lights, which is like mining your old journals from your teenage years and creating some new thoughts and wisdom as well. What will people find in this book that's a little different maybe from Green Lights or is a continuation of that.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So our Green Lights had a lot of stories and chronology of my life, wins, losses, etc. This is more. When I say poems and prayers, this is isn't as much stories, it's ways of approaching, ways of stirring up and reviving belief in ourselves, which I believe is in short supply. And I hear from a lot of people that for them it's in short supply as well. I wrote this book because belief was getting in short supply for me. I was starting to doubt more than I was comfortable with. I was starting to look down my nose and get a little cynical. I was starting to look around at the way of the world and starting to go, maybe this is just how it is. And that scared me. And then it pissed me off. I said, no, I'm not ready to wave the white flag and let doubt win in me. And I noticed that a lot of people were saying the same thing and I was like, oh, that math would not add up. If we let doubt win, we're all going to lose. So I don't necessarily think that we as a people are desiring properly. I don't think we're perceiving properly. I don't necessarily think we're understanding properly. I don't think we're going after the right things. So therefore we're not behaving properly. We need belief. It's in short supply. And whether that's in God, whether that's in your kids, your future, your better self, whatever that is, we need more of it. We need to double down on it. And if you don't know where to find it, ask yourself the question, who or what would you die for? That'll lead you to what you should probably be believing in more, what you should probably double down on more, which you should probably start living more for. And we're gonna have to. We're gonna have to find that each of us individually and enough of us do that, I think collectively we can move forward. Can't let the doubt win, because if it does, yeah, pretty sure we all lose.

[Willie Geist]

Stick around for more of my conversation with Matthew McConaughey right after a quick break.

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Matthew McConaughey.

[Interviewer]

How do you fight that cynicism? And I ask you because so many people feel that way. I hear it all the time. Maybe this is just the way it is, but we've got political leaders telling us the other side is the enemy. We've got social media algorithms reinforcing our beliefs, all that. How do you punch through that?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, you got to keep fighting that. I think we have to not, not concede and not let our every time we say ah, this is just how it is. Which is an extremely to be nationalistic for a second, extremely un American way to think. Because the idea of America is about the continual pursuit. Even though we may never arrive at the right equality or the right justice or fairness, we mean it. But to continually pursue, to never say just how it is. America's a verb. You know the spirit of it too. And so but us each individually, no matter what country you're from, we you become a cynic. Early death. It means you quit to some extent. It means you quit if you quit believing and you start going, ah, hey, cynics are clever. They get people to giggle at the cocktail party, but they quit. They actually, they're actually, actually quitters. It's easy to be cynical, easy to be snark. It's easy to be clever. It's easy to say ah, it's all for not just the way it is.

[Interviewer]

And now you don't even have to say it. You can just post it and walk away from it.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I was talking with somebody yesterday and we gotta, you know this idea that people. And his line was I think people are out to try and misunderstand each other. I found that really interesting. They're out to seek contrast before comparison. They're out to go. Well, not really what you said. I'm just already looking for an answer that can argue that I'm not. Even before I'm even listening to what you're saying. I'm always looking because then if I do that I feel like I had an individual answer. I was original. It wasn't that cool, wasn't that clever, wasn't that edgy. That's short term thinking. That's like cheering when your opponent misses more than you cheer for when your own team makes. It's like, come on, we gotta have more confidence, I think more belief than that in ourselves to not seek to be the contrary and the cynic all the time. Which. It's a default place to go. And I think it's kind of chicken and we're all buying into it. It's being sold us at every turn. I understand why we feel that way. I'm not preaching to say I don't understand why you feel that way. I get it. Turn on the news, check out the algorithm. It's built to do that. You know, it reinvents itself with instead of. But I believe there is and should be and can be a coalition, an expectation of how we're supposed to. Rules of engagement with ourselves and each other. I don't believe that you can just say the ethics are whatever the winner did. Wait a minute. Can we check first to see if the winner moved the goalpost or lied and cheat and stole before they got there because. And when we're being told no, it doesn't matter as long as they win, they get to the front of the line. Now hang on a minute, Bull. Now let's go a step further. Some of the people who are saying that are also saying, oh, and by the way, if you do follow the rules, you a sucker.

[Tide Announcer]

Bull.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hang on a minute, man. There's understandings, there's truths and traditions that we have to maintain. There's new ideas that we need to adapt to as well. That's true progress. Progress isn't saying yes to every damn new idea and forget everything in the past. It's also not saying I'm going to be a dinosaur, just how we did in the past. I don't want. I don't want any change. That's not progress either. So the progress is the combination of the two. But there has to be. I believe it's not asking too much to have bring in an ethical, moral bottom line to some things that can stand, that we can trust in things that have worked in business, in relationships that have worked in the past, that will continue no matter what changes, no matter what AI does, no matter what the algorithm says, no matter what some of our leaders do and tell us, telling us to divide. There are some things that we can contain a sort of moral and ethical baseline that is not asking too much to expect from, from each of us. And if you don't want that, if you want to be a nihilist, if you want to say it's all for nothing, I don't care, I'm going to be a tyrant. But you know what? Go your own way then. But we're not. It's not. The armies of us don't need to accept falling in line with that being just how it is or that that's okay. And that's on you and me individually in the damn mirror first. That doesn't need to be policed by anybody else. I think it should be policed on the outside more, but that needs to be policed on our own. If we believe more in what we personally value, we will police ourselves on those. Because you realize you don't really win that way. Yeah, not the long game.

[Interviewer]

When you say the armies of us, I think that's key.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Because the extreme voices on both sides of this thing are the loudest ones. They got the most attention. So it's easy for someone just living in our culture to assume, oh, that's the way we are, we don't like each other. I just reject that out of hand. And I think in your books you speak to that, you say, hang on a second. Of course there are always pirates on either side of the ship. But we're in this thing together. Let's figure it out.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, we gotta. And I think to. To get it back. You know, we're talking. I think it was offline before we started recording, but I think it's gonna be a punk rock rebellion and not a Kumbaya Namaste, let's be peaceful and see what happens. I think it's gonna be take some rage on the part of believers, whether again God or self or better self or each other. Take grabbing the mic back and they're not going to get it Back the extremes. The pirates on the starboard and the other side aren't going to say, oh yeah here, just waiting for you to ask. No, gonna have to fight to get it back.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, I, and I was saying to you before we started, I feel like you are a great voice for that because what we do in our culture now is dismiss somebody because we find something about them. He or she's in that party or he or she holds that belief. They'll find things you've said over time and maybe try to stick that to you. But generally speaking, they can't paint you with a brush and dismiss you that easily. So I think, personally, I think even in a different, arguably more important way than politicians, for you to come through and say all this, people sit up and listen and I think that matters. Do you sense that? I don't want to call it responsibility, but the people are leaning in and listening.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I, Yeah, I, I sense it to an extent. I hope so. And look, I want to say, so I don't come across as being preachy when I say we. I'm including me stuff I'm talking about. I'm not making straight A's in all these classes. This is to myself. I'm trying to call myself out too, and I'm trying to shake hands with the fact that, yeah, good, it is a process. All of us are working and we need to keep working. It does take, it's going to take some sweat equity individually for all of it. It's going to. Not one of our leaders can do anything unless we get off our own porch. So we can't sit back and rely on fate. Can't sit back and rely on our leaders in position to do that for us. We gotta put our own hands on the wheel and that can be overwhelming. What do you mean trying to change the world? No, don't try and change the world. Look in the mirror. Just start with the choices you're making. They're a lot more fun to do have than mandates anyway. Choices you know and understand and believe that better choices for yourself, truer choices for yourself today do have a compounding interest and give you more ROI down the road. I think it's part of that's the main thing is just trusting that there's a bigger payoff and having a little bit of delayed gratification and going, oh, if I do this, oh, that's going to make my relationship healthier with my wife. If I do this, that makes me a better boss, a better employee. There's so many Things to just trust, if we could just trust a little further, that we will reap more rewards. Now, if you're religious, you believe in God, and you're trying to live in a way that you think how you live today will have. May have something to do with where you go. That's another delayed gratification to believe in reason. If you're not religious, I do say, hey, fine, there's great ethics in the text of the Bible. They're in the Quran, they're in many different religious books and teachings. There are places to go. Use those. Don't be mad at the author just because he's the author. Pick out the stuff that you go, that's good, that actually works. That pays me back. And whether that's a philosophy you have again, if you're not a tyrant, you're not a nihilist, double down on that philosophy, man. Whether it's science, double down on that. That science. So it's a. Yeah, I think we've got a call to action in front of us and I know we can do it. We just gotta not concede to go it's just the way it is and not let ourself off the hook either. We gotta counsel ourselves and administer ourselves, referee ourselves in kind. And that if we do it well, pays us back as well as the most amount of people. That's the sweet spot.

[Interviewer]

All this raises the questions you've been asked about running for governor and all that stuff. You said, no, I've got kids. Yeah. I want to be there. Which I sympathize with very well. Do you see some other role for you down the road or you think this is the best lane for you.

[Matthew McConaughey]

To be in right now? This is. That I think this is the best lane. But I. But I'm. I'm open to that. Where I can be most useful, where my voice and understanding can be most useful as it is. Where and what I can learn. Maybe I'll find an avenue. I don't even know yet. Maybe, you know, leadership down the road in another category, maybe in political category, I don't know. Can be. Oh, I see that lane. I can be useful there. You know, politics is not my. The way I speak, the way I come about things. It doesn't. It's not really political speak.

[Interviewer]

Right. That might be an advantage now.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It might be. Yeah, it might be. I'm trying to speak. I think what I hopefully is above politics, probably more center too. And that, that to go back to answering the question you were talking about earlier, talking about it's going to take a rebellion. You know, somebody told me, oh, ain't nothing on the, you know, middle of the road. Ain't nothing on those yellow lines but dead armadillos. Like, that's funny.

[Interviewer]

But it's a good line.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay, on the fence. No, it's not on the fence. It's actually a strategic position to be able to go left and right when you need to go right. It's like playing free safety. It's an aggressive, really aggressive position. And if we start looking at that, then we have an offensive mindset, then we have an affirmative mindset, not a defensive mindset. And it's not going, eh, I'm a little this or a little this. Damn. That's not what I'm. That's not what I'm saying. It's not middle of the fiddle being about nothing. We talk about it in there, but there's a difference between a nice guy and a good man. Good man has ideals, and if those are tested, good man's not going to be a nice guy. I'm not saying this isn't. Like I said, it's going to take some sweat equity. And I think it's more of a punk rock rebellion than it is a peaceful, easy place in the middle where you go both ways. That's not what I'm talking about.

[Interviewer]

Well, keep at it. We need. We need your voice in the conversation. A lot of that comes through in the book. So congrats on the book, congrats on the film. And speaking of free safety, I let you go. How are we feeling about the Horns right now?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Come on, Horns.

[Interviewer]

We're.

[Matthew McConaughey]

We're. We're not off to the fastest start that we expected or hoped for. We went down to Ohio State, got beat by good Ohio State team. Thought we were going to win that game. And then we've won the next two games. We got a W. Let's be happy about that. Did we. Are we performing to the. Is our offense performing to. We had hoped it not yet. I believe we will. I don't have any worries about our quarterback and arch at all. Guys got incredible ability and he's got great character and he'll. He'll see through this and see what BS not to worry about. And he'll start playing ball as himself and it'll. In the end we can find a. We can find that rhythm. So I have a rhythm down an offense yet, and that'll happen. And part of that's about. Part of the passing game is balance with the rhythm on the running game, you know, that'll open things up. So I'm excited about where we're going.

[Interviewer]

Sometimes it takes time to give the guy a couple of games to get rolling a little bit.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then we'll see you on November 1st when the Commodore has come into Austin.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The Commodore could be a big one.

[Interviewer]

Who would have thought?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Commodores are no longer what they call them. In this, they come the doormat. No, they're not.

[Interviewer]

No, sir.

[Matthew McConaughey]

They just swing out of South Carolina, drubbing the Gamecocks at home. Yes, now it's a new day on the top.

[Interviewer]

It sure is.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Congrats.

[Interviewer]

Great to see you, man.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You too.

[Interviewer]

Thanks for doing this.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Appreciate.

[Willie Geist]

My big thanks again to Matthew for a great conversation. Always enjoy sitting down with him. The Lost Bus is streaming now on Apple TV plus, and his book Poems and Prayers is available wherever you get your books. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget, forget to tune in to Sunday Today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews in living color. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Podcast.

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