NAACP IMAGE AWARD NOMINEES: Lena Waithe on Building Her Voice in Hollywood (December 2019)

Summary

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Episode: NAACP IMAGE AWARD NOMINEES: Lena Waithe on Building Her Voice in Hollywood
Original Release: December 2019 / Podcast Air Date: February 27, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Sunday Sitdown features a dynamic and raw conversation between Willie Geist and trailblazing Emmy-winning writer, producer, and actor Lena Waithe. The discussion dives deep into Lena’s creative process, her personal journey in Hollywood, the cultural impact of her work on projects like Queen & Slim, The Chi, and Master of None, and her advocacy for authentic Black narratives and new voices in entertainment. Waithe opens up about her Chicago roots, her drive to tell nuanced stories, her approach to representation, and the responsibilities that come with her growing influence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis and Impact of Queen & Slim

• Origin of the Story ([02:59]–[04:06]):
  • The concept began with an encounter between Lena and James Frey at a Hollywood party. Frey offered the kernel: a Black man and woman kill a police officer in self-defense after being pulled over.
  • Lena took only the conceptual nugget and built a wholly original narrative:

    “…I just want that nugget. … I really wanted to grow the tree on my own and do it myself.” —Waithe [03:28]

• Intent and Cultural Meditation ([04:32]–[06:16], [06:37]–[07:45]):
  • Wanted to make a meditation on Blackness—its beauty and trauma—through characters who become “an algorithm for all of us as a people... trying to survive and find joy and love while drowning in oppression.”
  • Explored public perceptions surrounding Black people and police, aiming for nuance:

    “We're all human beings trying to figure it out... There are no villains and heroes in this movie.” —Waithe [09:46]

2. Personal Storytelling and Ownership

• Drawing from Her Own Life ([06:26]–[07:45], [23:57]–[27:24]):
  • Waithe discusses how her storytelling is rooted in her personal experiences, whether in Queen & Slim or The Chi:

    “I can be of both minds… Some could also argue, why isn't it enough for us just to exist in the world and live a quiet, dignified, happy life?... I wanted to honor lives like that…” —Waithe [07:08]

• Black Creative Autonomy ([08:06]–[09:27]):
  • Waithe insisted on final cut and minimal interference, particularly from white stakeholders, to preserve authenticity in story and language:

    “I didn't want notes from white people, no shade… We've had movies told to us in your English... I wanted our native tongue to be front and center in this movie.” —Waithe [08:22]

3. Representation, Empathy, and Uncomfortable Truths

• Humanizing Characters in Contentious Situations ([09:46]–[11:57]):
  • The film is purposely ambiguous—no clear heroes or villains; it reflects complicated truths:

    “You see a picture of the police officer's family on the dashboard… that's my way of reminding people he has kids at home too.” —Waithe [10:05]

  • On flipping the script of violence in America:

    “Black people are killed by police officers in real life almost every day. And that is not a movie for us. That's real life... imagine what it's like to see it happen to you in real life and nothing happen because of it.” —Waithe [10:58]

• Varied Reactions and Purpose of Art ([13:17]):
  • Waithe welcomes differing audience reactions as a sign her work is sparking vital dialogue:

    “It should be a debate. It should be subjective. I don't want to have something that everybody across the board feels the same way about, because that means I didn't do my job.” —Waithe [13:34]

4. Casting, Production, and Demanding Control

• Bringing the Team Together ([15:03]–[18:37]):
  • Daniel Kaluuya lobbied for the role and won over the director after a five-hour meeting.
  • Waithe, director Melina Matsoukas, and Kaluuya formed an uncompromising team.
  • Waithe used newfound industry leverage (from her Emmy win and success with The Chi) to demand full creative control, including casting a “brown-skinned” new actress for Queen:

    “We knew our power, we knew our worth, and we demanded what we deserved.” —Waithe [18:37]

• Industry Recognition and Awards ([20:23]–[21:55]):
  • Waithe values community appreciation over awards but recognizes the importance of institutional validation for access and opportunity:

    “…not only do we deserve a seat at the table, but we deserve to sit at the head of it and… to build our own table.” —Waithe [21:37]

5. The Chi: Humanizing Chicago

• Motivation for the Show ([24:03]–[27:24]):

  • Frustrated by media reducing Black men in Chicago to “thugs or gangsters,” Waithe modeled characters after real people from her life:

    “…I literally pulled from my family, our community, our lives to sort of really show people what Chicago feels like and what it looks like... human beings trying to figure out this thing called life.” —Waithe [25:06]

  • She acknowledges she can’t please everyone in capturing the city’s experience:

    “You can’t please everyone… It’s more about how honest can I make this for me?” —Waithe [26:14]

• Journey from South Side to Broader Perspective ([27:39]–[29:07]):

  • Exposure to Evanston’s diversity expanded her artistic lens and informs how she writes multifaceted characters.

6. Growing Up Wanting to Write TV

• Writers as Early Heroes ([29:07]–[31:39]):
  • Inspired by shows like A Different World and The Cosby Show, Waithe always wanted to be a TV writer, a vision sparked by a supportive teacher:

    “She was like, I look forward to reading your papers… you write the way you speak… I knew that she was highlighting something that I did well...” —Waithe [29:32]

  • Named her production company Hillman Grad after the fictional HBCU from A Different World.

7. Breaking Into Hollywood & The Value of Mentorship

• Career Beginnings & Philosophy ([31:42]–[34:55]):
  • Waithe’s LA years were marked by financial struggle, odd jobs, and resolve to become “master of my craft.”
  • Influenced by writers like Norman Lear, Debbie Allen, Shonda Rhimes, and Aaron Sorkin.

8. Coming Out, Authenticity, and Privilege

• Master of None and the Emmy Moment ([34:55]–[36:49]):
  • Writing and portraying her coming out story was “the easiest thing” because she “had lived it, and survived it.” The personal resonance with viewers is what matters most:

    “Every single day someone comes up to me, gay and straight... That's the true reward, that's the gift.” —Waithe [36:37]

• Privilege and Risk in Coming Out ([36:54]–[38:15]):
  • Waithe notes the challenge and risk of coming out, explaining it’s a privilege not afforded to all due to economic and social risks.

9. Hillman Grad: Investing in the Next Generation

• Mentorship and Opportunity ([40:06]–[42:29]):
  • Lena stresses the importance of “leaving the business in better shape” by supporting and funding writing and acting training for those who wouldn’t otherwise have access.

    “…we want to level up the playing field… help someone really pursue their dream and eventually live it.” —Waithe [41:17]

  • Uses her platform and connections to highlight other Black talent:

    “The industry... wants to say, oh, great. Donald, Issa, Lena. Cool. ...nah, it’s a whole sea of us, and we all deserve to be here.” —Waithe [42:16]

10. Personal Life and What’s Next

• Marriage Story ([42:32]–[44:04]):
  • Waithe casually married her wife, Alana Mayo, at San Francisco City Hall, valuing intimacy over spectacle.

    “…It was so much easier that way... We got to go get married really quickly. We went and got something to eat after, hung out at the hotel and went back to work pretty quickly after.” —Waithe [43:14]

• Upcoming Projects ([44:15]):
  • Series 20s premiering on BET, acting on Westworld, producing Them: Covenant for Amazon.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Black creative autonomy:

  “I didn’t want notes from white people, no shade to white people. I just felt like from the beginning of time, we’ve had movies told to us in your English... I wanted our native tongue to be front and center in this movie.” —Lena Waithe [08:22]

• On representation & empathy:

  “There are no villains and heroes in this movie. It’s not black and white. There’s so many shades of gray.” —Lena Waithe [09:46]

• On the responsibility of artistry:

  “It’s an artist’s duty to reflect the times. And that’s really what I’m trying to do, is I’m being reflective of the society in which we live. And it’s not pretty all the time...” —Lena Waithe [13:17]

• On breaking barriers and awards:

  “We deserve a seat at the table, but we deserve to sit at the head of it and to… build our own table.” —Lena Waithe [21:37]

• On storytelling about Chicago:

  “It looks like human beings trying to figure out this thing called life.” —Lena Waithe [25:06]

• On privilege in coming out:

  “Coming out is a privilege. I think that’s something that we as a society need to understand.” —Lena Waithe [38:13]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:59] Origins and creative development of Queen & Slim
• [08:06] Asserting artistic control and authenticity in Black storytelling
• [09:46] Portrayal of police encounter and its complexities
• [13:17] On the purpose of art and audience reactions
• [15:03] Casting Daniel Kaluuya and the unique production circumstances
• [18:16] Challenging Hollywood norms and representation
• [24:03] The roots and purpose behind The Chi
• [27:39] The impact of growing up between the South Side and Evanston
• [29:32] Discovery of writing talent and early inspirations
• [34:55] Emmy win for Master of None and the validation of personal storytelling
• [40:06] Hillman Grad’s mission to open doors for others
• [42:32] On her marriage and preference for an intimate ceremony
• [44:17] Lena Waithe’s upcoming projects

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Additional Personal Details & Style

• Lena wore standout bunny-eared leather slides to the interview—reflecting her self-confidence and original style ([46:48]).
• She describes herself as a “constant student” of writing, valuing craft and continuous learning.

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Conclusion

Lena Waithe’s conversation with Willie Geist provides a masterclass in modern storytelling, authenticity, and using success to lift up others. Her insights into the necessity of creative control, the importance of nuanced Black representation, the power of mentorship, and her ongoing commitment to challenging the industry’s norms—not to mention her openness about identity and background—make this episode an essential listen for anyone passionate about film, television, and cultural change.

Transcript

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[Willie Geist]

hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I got a good one for you this week. My guest is Emmy winning actor, producer, writer, director and everything else you can possibly be in Hollywood. Lena Waithe. She is truly one of the brightest young stars in Hollywood and Lena won her Emmy writing an episode of Master of None. That's the Aziz Ansari Show. She also starred in the episode entitled Thanksgiving, which is the story of her coming out as gay to her own family. She also created and wrote the show the Shy, which has a big audience on Showtime and her current film is called Queen and Slim. It's got a lot of people talking. We'll let her explain the premise of the movie, some of the controversy behind the movie. You also might know her from Ready Player One, the story Steven Spielberg film. He handpicked her to be in that movie and she's going to be starring in Westworld coming up as well. She's got a lot going on in her life. Comes from Chicago. When she was a teenager she moved to Evanston, Illinois, which is on the sort of precipice of being a suburb. It basically is a suburb, but a close in suburb. And she talks about how moving to that more diverse area around Chicago sort of broadened her view. She gets into a bunch of her inspirations. Interesting for a young woman to grow up wanting to be a TV writer, not necessarily an actor because of the shows, the faces and the stories she saw on tv, like the Cosby show in a different world. She is a fascinating woman, a talented woman, great to talk to. I think you're gonna really like. If you don't already know Lena Waithe. This is your introduction to one of the biggest stars coming up in Hollywood. Here now, my Sunday sit down conversation with Lena Waithe. Lena, thanks for doing this. I appreciate it.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you for having me.

[Willie Geist]

I told you, I'm about an hour out from having finished the film. My heart's still beating out of my chest.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Congratulation. Congratulations. It's incredible.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you so much.

[Willie Geist]

Let's go back to the genesis of it, how it came to you. James Fry brought you the idea.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

I mean, how'd it start?

[Lena Waithe]

I was at a party in Hollywood, as they say. I was with my wife and, you know, I was just standing there and James Frey came up to me and I know who he is. He introduced himself, he said, hey, I have this idea for a movie that I can't write. And I was like, well, what's the idea? And he's like a black man. Black woman on a first date, on their way home, get pulled over by the police, which is never a fun thing for a black person. Things escalate very quickly. They kill the police officer in self defense and decide to get in the car and just go. And I was like, yeah, you can't write that, but I can. I was like, I think it's a really interesting idea, interesting starting point. He had an outline and another title. And I was like, I don't want any of that. I just want that nugget. And I was like, you know, obviously in fairness, I'll share story by credit because you planted the seed, but I really wanted to grow the tree on my own and do it myself. He didn't have any issue with that. He was like, go for it. And so I did. And I really just started the process of developing these two characters that would kind of become like this algorithm for all of us as a people and just sort of what it's like to try to survive and find joy and love while drowning in oppression.

[Willie Geist]

So did you change his idea much? In other words, was his a story, like, thought out?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, I think he had some thoughts about it, but I had different thoughts. I just really wanted to. To really take it from. I wanted to have it be a jumping off point for me for a movie. And so, yeah, but the thing about the first day and them getting pulled over and them killing the police officer in self defense, all that stuff stayed. But everything Else around it, I really created and just tried to find the world on my own.

[Willie Geist]

So as you took this kernel of an idea, what did you see in it that you said, oh, I can tell a bigger story about our culture.

[KFC Advertiser]

What do you want to see?

[Lena Waithe]

So many things popped out at me. I just sort of thought about because the relationship between black people and police has been so fraught from the beginning of time. That's the thing. When you look at civil rights footage, you know, and you see young, vibrant college students protesting or doing sit ins, and you see the police department sicing dogs on them, fire hoses, beating them with batons, it sort of is this weird thing that we as citizens are supposed to believe that police are here to protect and serve us. And then over the history, whether it be Rodney King or whatever it may be, we just. It just sort of doesn't feel that way. It feels like that's not what the police are here for when it comes to us. But even in the film, I'm very nuanced about the police. I know that all police are not bad and that they're not monsters. We're all human beings trying to figure it out. And we all have these judgments and these things that we're thinking about each other that may not be based on fact, but more so based on what we've been told or what we've been taught to believe. And so that's really what I wanted to play with. But also I wanted the movie to be a meditation on blackness and all that comes with that, because to be black is beautiful, but it also can be traumatizing at times. And I wanted to cover all those things. So, yeah, I saw it as a beautiful jumping off point because I thought to myself, I said, if there was a story about two black people killing a police officer, some people would think they were heroes, some people would think they were crazy, some people might think they were vigilantes. And I wanted to explore all of those ideas and how that would affect these two normal people who are just living their lives and trying to go along, to get along.

[Willie Geist]

So one of the great things about all of your work, I think it's fair to say, is that you come from a personal place, right? I mean, all these. You won an Emmy for writing an episode about your own experience.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. About coming out.

[Willie Geist]

Right. About coming out. An entire series, the Shy about your life. So what did you bring to this from a personal point of view that you could speak to so much?

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, I think it was really, there's A little bit about black community, about family, about religion, about what legacy means to me. And I can be of both minds that on one hand, it's about, like, what does it mean to matter? So on one hand, you may think I have to bend the world to really leave something behind. But some could also argue, why isn't it enough for us just to exist in the world and live a quiet, dignified, happy life? But we've sort of been taught to believe, well, that's not exciting. And I think I wanted to honor lives like that, where someone gets up and goes to work every day, you know, takes care of their kids, like, you know, is doing all the right things and just trying to just have. Just pursue life, love and happiness, you know, and that is everyone's right. And. But for some reason, I think in our society, we started to think that that's not cool. And I think it's extremely cool. Just as cool as if somebody were to bend the world. I think it's. I think to me, Barack Obama and the guy that, you know, picks up your garbage every week are equally important. And I think that's what I was trying to get at with this film, too.

[Willie Geist]

It is incredibly powerful. Obviously, from that first scene, which sets off all the action in the film, to the very last scene that we were just discussing, which I won't give

[Lena Waithe]

away in this interview.

[Willie Geist]

As you set out to create this story, obviously you're casting it. You want to find the right people to get in it. But how did you want to tell this story so that it rolled out in such a truly powerful way?

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, I think a big thing for me was to tell it with complete autonomy. I didn't want notes from white people, no shade to white people. I just felt like from the beginning of time, we've had movies told to us in your English. And I feel like black people have a language that we speak. We have a broken English, too. It's a little bit of Southern, a little bit of city, and a little dash of slavery. Like, we have a broken English. And I wanted our native tongue to be front and center in this movie. And much credit to everyone involved. They agreed when I said Melina and I want final cut about what goes on the screen. I want final cut about what goes on the page. And everybody was like, yeah, sure, that makes sense. And what we got was a product that feels different, it feels unique. It doesn't feel like anything else because it isn't touched by the white gaze. And I think we have a right to have movies like that? Because Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, you know, All About Eve, wizard of Oz, all these. This history of films that have been told from a white perspective that black people have seen a bunch of times, too. You know, we're fluent in that language. We know how cinema has communicated to us about our society, about who we are as a people. And I just thought it was time that I wanted to tell our narrative in a way where people have to show up and learn about our culture and how we walk through the world.

[Willie Geist]

And that's not easy, right? You want to challenge some people.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah.

[Willie Geist]

It's not easy for you, but also for the audience. You know, somebody who goes in and watches that and they go, wow. That first scene, as I said, that sets off the action with the officer. You go, wow, that's intense.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

So did you want to make people feel a little bit uncomfortable? People like me who sat and watched it?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, I think everyone's going to feel uncomfortable with that scene when they get pulled over, because either you've been in that position where you've been behind the wheel, or you relate more to the person pulling the wheel and curious about where they're going or why they're swerving or why they missed the turning signal. And my big thing was to humanize every person in that scene. There are no villains and heroes in this movie. It's not black and white. There's so many shades of gray that even, like, for me, it was important if people pay attention to that scene. It's purposely written on the page, and it's on screen that you see a picture of the police officer's family on the dashboard when he goes to get in the car. You know, and that's my way of reminding people he has kids at home, too. He has a wife waiting for him. You know, these are all people. And we keep bumping up against each other, all to the things that we aren't even a part of. It really is our history coming back and haunting us. We haven't been able to shake the prejudice that our society is still, you know, reeking of.

[Willie Geist]

I can hear. It's interesting you say no heroes and no villains, right? Because I can hear some people who might watch that scene in the movie that follows and goes, well, there are no heroes. Why are they the heroes of the story? They killed a man at the beginning of the movie. So what would you say to someone who has that feeling after watching the film?

[Lena Waithe]

Well, it's interesting. You know, I say that we kill a police Officer on celluloid. It is a movie. It is fictitious. Black people are killed by police officers in real life almost every day. And that is not a movie for us. That's real life. We watch these news stories like everybody else, and it is traumatizing because also usually a week or two later, we hear the follow up to the news story, which is always inevitably, that the police officer has been released back on the force, you know, and they're out there in the street again. And so it tells us that our lives don't really carry a lot of value. And it makes it scary to be walking around in the world or, God forbid, be pulled over by a police officer because you don't know how that can wind up. And so all we really want to do was flip the narrative. So if anyone is upset that we're, you know, you're seeing violence with a police officer on a movie screen, imagine what it's like to see it happen to you in real life and nothing happened because of it.

[Willie Geist]

I told you a minute ago off camera that I interviewed Kerry Washington a couple weeks ago, and we had the conversation around American Son of what it's like to be black and pulled over. And I, you know, as a white man, it took me until just a few years ago having friends say to me, oh, yeah, we tell our sons and daughters, when you get pulled over, there's a routine, well, here's what you do for sure. And I didn't know those conversations were happening.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely.

[Willie Geist]

Is that a personal experience for you as well that you brought to this film?

[Lena Waithe]

Well, it's interesting. I haven't had that much of a violent experience with a police officer, but I've been pulled over before.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I'm a person that doesn't drink. I don't even have a speeding ticket. So you would think if I'm getting pulled over, I'm going to be calm. It's not the case. I am like, yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, you can search this, because I want to go home. I want to make it home. So therefore, I will absolutely become obedient and compliant. I will literally turn into like a slave trying to find their papers when I get pulled over by a police officer. But that's not fair. That's not cool. You know, I reserve the right to be able to get an attitude or assert my rights or talk back, but we don't have that right, especially if you want to survive it.

[Willie Geist]

So what do you want people to feel when they walk out of this film? Is it something different for everybody, or what's the statement you want to make?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. You know, the thing is, I believe Nina Simone says that it's an artist's duty to reflect the times. And that's really what I'm trying to do, is I'm being reflective of the society in which we live. And it's not pretty all the time, especially right now, and we can't ignore that. And I think as an artist, I'm trying to show us our reflection, whether we want to look at it or not. And because I think we can be beautiful sometimes. As a sister Heidi, we've seen that. We've seen those. Those feel good stories about people helping one another and being a good neighbor and doing charitable things. But we also could be really ugly. And I don't have to go down that list because it's very long. So we're both. And I want people to take away from it what they bring to it. You know, it's like there's going to be some people that hate it, some people that love it, some people that think it's irresponsible, some people that think it's about time, some people that think it's a classic. You know, I've heard all of it, but to me, that's what good art is. It should be a debate. It should be subjective. I don't want to have something that everybody across the board feels the same way about, because that means I didn't do my job. There should be enough nuances in it that people can make an argument and say, well, I think this, or I think it should have gone that way. Or if they did this, maybe it would have ended this way. I'm like, you want those conversations, you want that dialogue, and you also want people to, what would I have done in that scenario? Or I'm siding with her, or, why was he so compliant? Or why was she so loud? Like, everybody has a difference of opinion, and I think that's welcomed.

[Willie Geist]

I want to ask you about the cast, too. It's an amazing group of actors.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely.

[Willie Geist]

Because it could run the risk of becoming this, like, chase movie, thriller kind of thing. And it never does that.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. I wanted to stay away from that.

[Willie Geist]

It wasn't that. I mean, the thrill was there, but it was more subtle. When you put together the cast, what were you looking for?

[Lena Waithe]

Well, I can't take credit for Daniel. He cast himself. He read a very early draft. Like, we happened to have dinner, you know, one night in la, and he was like, what are you working on? What's next. And I said, well, I got this feature about, you know, these two black people that kill a police officer in self defense. He said, I want to read it. I want to read it. And I was like, okay. I said, it's early, man. You know. He's like, I don't care. I want to read it. So he did. He read it. And a couple days later, he hit me and said, I am slim. I have to be slim. And I said, oh, man. Okay, that's flattering. Hold on. I said, I want Malina to direct it. And she hasn't read it yet. I said, but I'm gonna do another pass. I'm gonna get it to her. And if she decides to direct the movie, who Queen and Slim are, have to be a conversation between she and I. So if you're down, just hold a beat. And he said, I'll wait, I'll wait. So he did. He waited a couple months. Cause it took a beat for Malina to get to reading it. And she did. And she said, hey, I wanna direct this. I said, great. Guess what? Daniel Kaluuya wants to be Slim. And she was like, I don't see him as Slim. I was like, I wouldn't have either. I said, but now after he mentioned it to me, I can't, like, get him out of my mind.

[Willie Geist]

That's interesting. So why wouldn't. Why didn't you see him as Slim?

[Lena Waithe]

I don't know. I don't think of actors funny enough when I'm writing or even right after. I like for casting to surprise me.

[Willie Geist]

Yep.

[Lena Waithe]

So I'm just. That's just how I am. And so. But for whatever reason, if I was thinking of actors, I don't know if he would have popped up for me for whatever reason. So. And I think it was the same thing with Melina. She was like, he's the guy from Gay. No, I don't see it. So I was like, just go sit down with him. You know? And she's like, out of respect for you, I'll give him five minutes. Like, fine, fine. So she goes to sit with him, and I'm waiting on my phone. Cause I'm like, what is this about to be? Five hours later, she calls me and is like, I hope you still like him. Cause I offered him the role at the table. And I was like, great. Yes. And so then it was three the hard way. I accidentally packaged my movie. And so now you got Melina over here, Daniel Kaluuya over here, and you got me in this Script. And the town was like, what do we have to do to get it? Cause I think there's this weird narrative that, oh, it must have been difficult to get this movie made. How did you get it on the screen? How did you get through the system? The system came after us. They saw the potential in what this movie could be. And that's when I think Melina and I really sort of opened our eyes and said, wait a minute. We got the leverage here. They want us, so let's ask whatever we want. And we asked for final cut because we wanted to have complete autonomy. I wanted everything on that screen, every word, every look, every glance, to be intentional and to be purposeful. And it is. So when people see Queen of Slim, you get Lena and Melina all day. And I wanted to shoot it and release it in the same year because I knew how urgent this movie was. I didn't want to do test screenings. Donna Langley was like, you might want to do at least one just in case there's something you're missing. I said, fair enough, but it had to be all black. She was like, okay. And I said, whatever they say in that screening, I don't have to be forced to do it. Because sometimes we don't even know as an audience what we need. You know, sometimes I want to push us a little bit further than we may be ready for. Right. So she was like, okay, fair enough. And we also wanted a lot of control of the marketing. That's why I think the billboards look a certain way, the trailer feels a certain way. Because we didn't want to just make the movie. We wanted to be in control of how we rolled it out.

[Willie Geist]

How unusual is that in Hollywood for people watching this? Don't realize that doesn't happen.

[Lena Waithe]

It never happens. And then a big thing was we wanted to. To break a new actress. Since we had Daniel Kaluuya, who was very recognizable, we wanted to bring in a new face and we wanted her to be brown skinned and nobody blinked an eye. They were like, fair, fair, fair. You got it. And we were like, awesome. Then we'll sign on a dotted line. And we really. That was the thing. We knew our power, we knew our worth, and we demanded what we deserved.

[Willie Geist]

Doesn't that speak to the position you've put yourself in? Hollywood now, though, with the success of the Shy, which got its third season. Congratulations.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you so much.

[Willie Geist]

And you're winning an Emmy and everything else. You've sort of put yourself in that place right, where you can even venture to suggest Any of that to a movie studio, let alone have them say yes to it.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was a combination of the fact that I had kind of, you know, had a feather or two in my hat and they were. You kind of can't deny you were like, okay, I know what you're doing a little bit. But also, I think it was the power of the script. I think people really could look at that script and understand that I was doing something a little different and something that really kind of hadn't been done before. But also too, I think it was the power of the fact that Melina had been building her resume and people were very excited about her first feature. Daniel obviously didn't hurt because of the heat that he had. And so it was. It just really, we are a product of black unity when people come together and we're stronger together than we are alone. And I think it was the combination of all those things. And also too really, you know, grateful to make ready. Pam Abdy and Brad Weston, who really fought hard to get in there with us and have become such great collaborators who had a deal with Universal. And we loved how Universal released Get out, how they released Straight Outta Compton, which were very like specific niche black movies that they made feel like tentpoles. So I was really impressed with how they were releasing content with black people at the center of it and not treating them like small independent movies, but rather really big event films, which is how they really rolled out. Queen of Slim, which has been so exciting and I think a big reason why a broad audience is excited about the film and not just a certain pocket of people.

[Willie Geist]

And all those movies did well too.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely.

[Willie Geist]

They became huge hits and won awards and everything else.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Willie Geist]

I don't. I never like to ask somebody this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway.

[Lena Waithe]

Sure.

[Willie Geist]

The awards chatter that's out there, I know it's early and you don't wanna jinx it and all the rest of it, but do you hear that? Is that exciting? Does it matter to you?

[Lena Waithe]

I do hear it. I think to me, I really want the culture to appreciate it. That's what we do it for, you know, we want our people to come up to us and say thank you. That's to me, the greatest reward. But I also know what awards mean. I've got one of them, you know, and so I know that it increases the visibility and it also makes it easier to get things done. But also, too, it's a cosign from your community because the television academy or the Motion Picture Academy. They're made up of, a lot of times people who work in the business or do what we do. So for them to say, hey, we think this is good, or we think you could be a part of this, like, elite club of films that we want to honor and hold in high regard for a very long time. I do welcome that because I think that movies like this deserve to be in those conversations because more often than not, it is the white films. It's like it's mostly predominantly white cast, you know, white director. Like, it's almost sort of reserved for films like that. But I think seeing get out win best original screenplay, seeing moonlight win best picture, those moments are really huge for us. We've just seen Black Panther being nominated in the best picture category. Those moments really show us that not only do we deserve a seat at the table, but we deserve to sit at the head of it and to. And to have our own table and to build our own table. You know, it's not just about asking for permission, but we deserve to be in those conversations like everybody else.

[Willie Geist]

I feel like you're gonna be at some of those tables coming up. I think so.

[Lena Waithe]

Let's see. Let's see. I think you'll be at some tables. We'll see what happens.

[Willie Geist]

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Lena Waithe right after the break.

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[Lena Waithe]

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[Willie Geist]

Welcome back to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Lena Waithe the shy. I wanna ask you about that as well. Just because to me, again, you've so been able to do things that come from you, which is unusual. Just the way you were able to sort of control this film is to be able to produce things that are meaningful to you.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Where did the shy come from in terms of your background and what did you wanna say about the city and the culture?

[Lena Waithe]

Well, I'm from Chicago and very proudly, but I would see so many news about Chicago about the violence, about the issues the city was having. And look, because I'm from there, I think I look at it from a different lens. And I know the people there. I know how special it is. I know there's a culture there, there's a community there that often gets lost in some of the news stories. So what I really wanted to do was to humanize the people of Chicago as best I could. And I think a lot of times, particularly black young men in Chicago are categorized as thugs or gangsters or heartless people. And I'm just like, no, I grew up with those cats. Like, they're, they're. I think of, you know, them like my brothers. And even though they may not be perfect, they're not monsters. And I thought that to me, that's how they were being portrayed in the news. And I didn't appreciate that. And that was the big reason why I sat down and started writing. Emmett, Brandon, Kevin, Ronnie. You know, Ronnie was the name of my uncle who has since passed away. I grew up with a kid named Coogie. Literally, that was his nickname. Ethel is my mother's. You know, all these things. Like, I literally pulled from my family, our community, our lives to sort of really show people what Chicago feels like and what it looks like. And it looks like human beings trying to figure out this thing called life. And I'm so grateful that people really tune in and appreciate these characters. And obviously in this new season, we're going through some changes for sure, but I feel like it's the most grounded and most human Season of the show we've ever had because it really. I had to go through adversity with the show. We lost a cast member, two cast members, actually. And it was a scenario in which I had to really dig deep and remember that the shy is bigger than one person, literally and figuratively. Chicago is made up of so many people, and we got to really give some of these other characters and some new characters a little more real estate to come in to tell a new story about this city that I know and love.

[Willie Geist]

Is that a big responsibility to be the one who's gonna tell the story of the city you love?

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, my God.

[Willie Geist]

Okay, this is what the world is gonna see about Chicago. I better get this right. Do you feel that it's tough?

[Lena Waithe]

Here's the deal. You can't please everyone. Of course you can't. So I don't even try, you know, for me, it's more about how honest can I make this for me? You know? And again, there can never be just one show about Chicago because Chicago is so vast, and there's so many different kinds of people that live in that city. You could tell 18 shows about Chicago, and they never could even touch each other because there's also so many little pockets and so many little neighborhoods in Chicago as well that most people aren't even aware of. So we're sort of talking about certain pockets on the south side, and then we also venture into the west side every now and then. But there's no way to cover that whole city in just one series. We're trying to talk about individuals in a city and how that city has affected. Affected them, and how that city can hold onto you and never let you go, or how that city can feed you, how sometimes it can make you frustrated, how you can fall in love in that city, you can get a job, lose a job in that city. It's really more about telling the human story rather than just trying to make everyone that lives in that city feel like, oh, yeah, that's my Chicago. Because everybody has a very different version of the city. And so that's what we try to remember is like, hey, this is our version of Chicago.

[Willie Geist]

And what makes your perspective so interesting, we were talking about this before we started, is that you have these sort of different views of the city, starting on the south side and then going to Evanston and how that sort of informed you culturally and allowed you to tell some of the stories you've told.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Willie Geist]

What was it about that sort of mix from the south side and Evanston that made your point of view so interesting going forward?

[Lena Waithe]

Well, a big thing for me was when I was on the south side of Chicago, I only really encountered black people. That was my experience, you know, up until I was 12 years old. And I loved it, you know, it was amazing. It was great. I was like, oh, this is such a wonderful utopia. Then I moved to a suburb. Wasn't too bad. Evanston is pretty diverse. It's not Skokie, but it. No shade to Skokie. Yeah. But Evanston has a little bit more diversity. But still, it was very much a culture shock for me. I wasn't used to that. I was in a school that didn't feel like the school I was in the south side, which we try to tackle on the season of the Chi, about what that's like when you go from, you know, this school to a more private school, and how that affects how you walk through the hallway a little bit. And so it just. It definitely expanded my perspective because I talked to folks that I ordinarily probably wouldn't talk to, and I befriended people that I ordinarily wouldn't befriend. And I think it made it so I'm a better artist because of that. Today, I really Having that exposure to a different neighborhood, you know, and then also, too, when I went to Columbia College in Chicago, which is downtown Lou. And sort of being there and meeting people at Columbia was also a unique perspective. I think for me, it was really about meeting different people and hearing different perspectives. It just sort of expands my mind in terms of how I want to tell stories and how I want to write characters.

[Willie Geist]

Up until this day, I was reading some stories about you and that you would. Growing up, you loved tv. You're watching shows like Different World, Cosby show, all the ones we watched. But you dreamed about writing those shows.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah.

[Willie Geist]

The rest I was trying to be Theo or whoever the star of the show was. In your young mind, you were gonna write those shows, which is an interesting perspective for a young person to have. How did you get to. I want to create that show, not be on it.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. Although then I wound up being on a show. But it really sort of came from a teacher, you know, fifth grade, Ms. Tarbunas. She was like, hey, Turner. Drew Academy, Chicago. She was like, I look forward to reading your papers every week because you write the way you speak. And as a fifth grader, I didn't really understand what that meant, but I knew that it was a compliment, and I knew that she was highlighting something that I did well, which was writing. And I think I just always felt like that was my superpower to write and to tell stories. But I also knew I loved watching television, so I really sort of married those two things and said, how can I tell stories on the television? But also I knew how those stories were impacting me. I mean, my production company is Helm and Grab Productions, which is taken from the fictitious HBCU that they attend on A Different World, because that's how significant that show was for me to see those images. And those are very aspirational images, because somebody could argue that that wasn't my reality. Of course not. I wasn't in college yet. I wasn't old enough to even be thinking about it. I didn't know what a historically black college was until I watched A Different World. But it really showed me that black people could be smart, educated and cool and fashionable and fall in love and learn about Malcolm X and Dr. King and all these things. I mean, that show to me still is lightning in a bottle, and you kind of can't recapture it. There's always people wanting to make a different world again. I'm like, it was a moment in time, but I'm grateful for that moment, because if it wasn't for that show, I wouldn't be sitting across from you right now.

[Willie Geist]

And by the way, all those things, we had the same impression. Young white kids had those same visions.

[Lena Waithe]

That's the thing. Even though, as specific as it was, it was number two in the Nielsen ratings. It was like the Cosby show in a different world. And you don't get blacker than those shows, even though they were very. They were very easy to watch and very universal. But it was like A Different World was literally a show about a historically black college. Like, I don't think people understand. Like, and it was like, number two on NBC. Like, please. Like, that was nuts.

[Willie Geist]

And that's 30 years ago.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on. And for me to be a kid, like, having that, it changed my whole life.

[Willie Geist]

So you knew then, pretty young, what you wanted to do with your life?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

You graduate college, moved to LA pretty quickly.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, right away.

[Willie Geist]

What was the plan going out there? What did you want to do with yourself, and what were those early years like?

[Lena Waithe]

I just wanted to. Well, the early years were very broke, didn't have a lot of money, interning a ton, working at odd jobs. All the stuff you do, you pay the dues. But I really want to conquer. I want to conquer la. I wanted to conquer the town. That was the mindset that I walked out there with. And I meant, like. And by conquering it, I meant. I wanted to be the master of my craft. I wanted to be a really great writer. I wanted to be a very hard worker. And that was really my intent. I wanted to be the best. And I'm still working at that. I don't think I've gotten there yet. I still think I have a lot to learn. I still have so much more to do. But I wanted to be a constant student of the craft of writing because of the ones I looked at as the greats. In all those movies I would watch or TV shows, I would say, man, those people really know what they're doing. People like Norman Lear and, you know, and Debbie Allen and Shonda Rhimes and David E. Kelley and Aaron Sorkin and Matthew Weiner. These are all people that I looked up to and admired in terms of. They had a singular voice and a specific vision, and that's why their work really spoke to so many people. And I love that. I love that. How intimate television can be. It's even more intimate now because you can watch it on your laptop, on your phone. And so I just feel very honored to be a part of this television landscape, whether behind the scenes, obviously sometimes in front of it, too. But I think television is such a powerful, powerful medium because we really get to communicate with people in their living room or in their bedroom or in their car or while they're waiting in line. It's important that we're talking directly to people and not preaching to people, not giving them a specific message, but starting conversations. And I enjoy doing that.

[Willie Geist]

So what was the moment, Lena, in that trip where you felt like, okay, I'm here now. I've done something people like, something people have heard about. I'm starting to make a little noise out here. I think I can survive.

[Lena Waithe]

Um, the Emmy might have been that moment for me.

[Willie Geist]

I was gonna say that, but I don't know if for you, there was something before that.

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, sure. The thing was, it was. That was a moment of I've arrived, for sure. That was definitely an arrival moment, because there's no turning back after that. You know, it was. I almost solidified my place in history. People stood up and saw me in a real way, and I took that to mean, okay, now I'm really gonna go for it. Like, there's nothing I can't get done because, you know, because I've had this moment and this moment in time, and I'm gonna earn this moment that I Just had. But, yeah, before that, I just felt like if I could write a good script that I felt good about and people enjoyed, that, to me, was also a moment of arrival as well, so. And I knew. I felt like the Thanksgiving episode script was good. Before I was nominated for an Emmy, I had to feel like it was good for her. I have to validate me before anyone else can. So that was also a moment, too, for me to read that script and to watch that cut and go, Yeah, I feel good about that. Great. I had no idea it would become what it did, but that moment was sort of the industry saying, you did good, kid. You did good.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. And again, coming back to the theme, a personal story that you were able to tell through that script, was that a difficult thing to do, or did that feel good to be able to put that out there?

[Lena Waithe]

That was the easiest thing I've ever done. Me and Aziz wrote while I was in London filming Ready Player one, just because that's how the schedules worked out. We wrote it in three days because I only had three days off of the movie. And he came to. I went to his hotel room, and, like, we just sat and, like, passed the laptop back and forth and, like, watched old music videos and, like, talked about stuff and reminisced on things. And in that hotel room was when we both said we wanted Melina to direct it. We just really kind of came together and worked quickly, which we tend to do. But, yeah, and it was such a. It was easy to tell that story because I had lived it, and I had survived it. I had survived it. I had lived to tell. I did the thing. I came out, made it to the other side, and I had more perspective when I was sitting down to write it. Around the time I came out, I didn't have any. I was frustrated. I was confused. I didn't know what the future held. So I was in a very different space. But being in London, I was filming a Steven Spielberg movie, and Aziz flew in to write the script with me. I was like, I'm just gonna tell my story, man. Like, I've. Like, I am valid. This my. Who I am, how I present myself, I'm just as valid as everyone else. And I think that was the space I had to be in for me to sit down and tell that story,

[Willie Geist]

and then to see people respond to it that way, not only to, like, watching it, but to hand you a trophy and put you up on a stage for it, must. Must have been incredibly validating to your experience.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely. And the thing Is, is like that was an industry moment and cool. But every single day someone comes up to me, gay and straight. That's the thing. Straight people love that episode.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

But they come up and say, yo, that episode, television, like it changed my life or I watched that with my parent after I come out and all this kind of stuff. That's the true reward, that's the gift.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. The real life version of that story coming out more difficult than writing about it, I imagine.

[Lena Waithe]

Sure.

[Willie Geist]

So what was that experience like for?

[Lena Waithe]

Look, coming out is never fun. It's not fun. Cause you kind of have to prepare yourself for the worst. That's why coming out, I think is so difficult for people because you don't know what the other side is gonna be. You may think you do, but you never know. And there are people that are put out of their homes, people that are disowned by their family, you know, people that are ridiculed, people that are people throw bibles at them. I mean, it is, I think, probably one of the most difficult things a person can really experience as a gay person. Because you. Or a queer person, because you really have no idea how your family, your friends or whomever, co workers, whoever it is, you're coming out to, how they're going to respond. But you have to prepare yourself for anything. Right. And it's a rite of passage. It's a thing that we've all experienced, but it's a thing that we all can survive if we can. But also too, there's a level of privilege that comes with coming out as well. Because if you don't have the means, if you don't have the funds to live on your own or to not get, you know, even though, yes, it's illegal to get fired, fire someone for their sexual orientation, but who knows, there are people still that can figure out a way to do that. What if you're afraid of losing your job, Afraid of getting kicked out of your house? So coming out is a privilege. I think that's something that we as a society need to understand.

[Willie Geist]

That's interesting. I never even thought of it that way.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely.

[Willie Geist]

Stick around to hear more from Lena Waithe on the Sunday Sit down podcast, including why she started her production company, Hillman Grad, and the story behind her low key wedding to wife Alana Mayo

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[Lena Waithe]

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[Willie Geist]

to the Sunday Sit down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Lena Waithe. So we were talking about your foundation, your production company.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh yeah, hell my grad.

[Willie Geist]

And the part you're able to play now in the culture and in the business where you can hand down what you know and give opportunity to other people because of the work you've done and the spotlight you now have, you can help put some other people in that spotlight.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

Why is that so important to you?

[Lena Waithe]

It's important because I want to leave this business in better shape than I found it in. And I think the best way to do that is to mentor, is to educate, is to make sure people that are not that don't have the privilege to be able to leave everything and come to Los Angeles or New York and just to pursue their dream. We want to sort of level up the playing field. We want to find the funds to help people go to writing class, help people get into acting classes, help people learn the craft that they so desperately want to be a part of. Because anyone can raise their hand and say, I want to be a writer. Not everybody has the funds to take writing classes, to take time out of their day, to be in Writing groups and all that kind of stuff. It takes of a lot, lot to become a good writer. It takes a lot to become a good actor. It takes a lot to learn in terms of being a producer, a director, and people want to do it. But if you don't have the craft or the skill, you're not going to be able to break in. Or unless you're one of those, like, rare beings that just knows how to direct or knows how to write really well. There's very few of those people. And also, I had to learn the craft. I went to Columbia College and studied writing and producing and television. And that's why when I came out to la, I was able to hit the ground running. But most people, you know, sort of realize at 45, you know what? I don't want to do this job. I want to go be a screenwriter. I want to go direct. And that's cool, too. You know, I want those folks to know that, like, hey, we're here. We want to help, we want to be supportive, and we want to know what we can do to help someone really pursue their dream and eventually live it. Because I do believe that everyone has a gift. Everyone does. You can either embrace it or you can suppress it. And I think a lot of people choose to suppress it because they got bills to pay, they got families to take care of, they got responsibilities. But there's a difference in the way someone walks with the world, by someone who just thinks about their dream versus someone who's living it.

[Willie Geist]

And you help people do that. I love what you say that people are answering your calls more often now since the Emmy, and you say, hey, while I got you on the phone, look at this writer.

[Lena Waithe]

Check out this person. This person's great. There's more where this came from. I do think the industry sort of wants to say, oh, great. Donald, Issa, Lena. Cool. You know, And I just sort of like, nah, it's a whole sea of us, and we all deserve to be here. We all deserve to have opportunities, and we all deserve to have our stories told.

[Willie Geist]

And last, but obviously, most importantly, congratulations on your marriage.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, thank you.

[Willie Geist]

That's incredible.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you so much.

[Willie Geist]

So was it as casual as it sounds? I was listening to you tell John Legend the story. Like, yeah, we were driving by and we're like, let's pop in there.

[Lena Waithe]

You know, we actually have a really close friend that lives in San Francisco. My wife loves going. And so, yeah, she just had this idea. She's like, why don't we get married at City hall there. One, cause it's beautiful. And two, because it has so much history with our community. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. And we just decided to keep it just us. It was so much easier that way. And it was also a great photographer as well, Andre Wagner, who shot the poster for Queen and Slim. And so he captured us as well. Queen and Queen, but that was it. And also too, we're so. We're a little lazy. We, like, don't want to plan a thing. We didn't want to be in those clothes all day. We were just like. So we're both Taureans. Like, I'm a tourist, she's a tourist. So we like nice things, but we also like to chill and hang out. And so that's what we got to do. We got to go get married really quickly. We went and got something to eat after, hung out at the hotel and went back to work pretty quickly after.

[Willie Geist]

You don't want to be planning a wedding, picking out napkins and all that stuff.

[Lena Waithe]

I mean, she could have planned a beautiful wedding. I mean, Alana's good at that stuff. But I just think it would have been too exhausting. And we're very blessed to be very busy right now in the business. So we were like, look, we'll get this done. We'll do it. It's felt like we've been married for this whole time. Now we just have nice jewelry to go with it. But yeah, we wanted to kind of get it done quick and easy, no muss, no fuss. And it was sort of. I think it was the best decision.

[Willie Geist]

That's great. Congratulations.

[Lena Waithe]

Thank you so much.

[Willie Geist]

And I have to ask you, what's next for you? What's on the horizon? You're still young. You got a lot of road ahead of you. You've done a lot. I know you got big plans.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, man. This is the beginning.

[Willie Geist]

What are you shooting for?

[Lena Waithe]

20s, which is loosely based on my 20s living in LA hustlin and bustling, being a PA and being a runner. That'll be on BET in February of next year. So very excited about that. Half hour single camera comedy. Eight episodes that really, I think will get people laughing and inspire folks to follow their dreams. I'm going to be in Westworld next season, which is exciting, which will be out next year. And then I'm also producing a TV show that'll be on Amazon called Them Them. Covenant is the first season. It's all about a black family that moves to an all white Compton. Yes. Compton used to be all white in 1953. And the only thing scarier than the white neighbors that don't want them there is the haunted house that they've just moved into. So it's gonna be something special.

[Willie Geist]

I'm in.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Willie Geist]

You are busy?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Willie Geist]

I don't know how you found time to get married, but you did exactly.

[Lena Waithe]

We got it in. Thank you.

[Willie Geist]

Big congratulations to Lena on her marriage and my big thanks to her for a great conversation. Her new movie Queen and Slim is in theaters now. And I'm joined right now on the Sunday Sit down podcast by the producer Maggie Law. Hi, Willie, good to see you. Also making her Sunday Sit down podcast debut and looking thrilled about the prospect of it. Alicia Hasee. Alicia, welcome.

[Alicia Hasee]

Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

[Willie Geist]

So Alicia produced the interview with Lena Waithe. I confess, before we started, before we really dug in, I didn't know a ton about Lena Waithe. Of course I knew who she was through all the shows that she's done, but I didn't know her whole life story. I didn't know how engaged she's been with her Hillman grad production network of making sure that young people like she was not so long ago get their chance in Hollywood to come up. Just a super interesting person to sit across from for an hour.

[Alicia Hasee]

Absolutely. And I think for me, I remember her Emmy speech because it was so uplifting and I think it went a little bit viral with the whole that being different is what makes you special and useful in Hollywood. And then of course her met gala, the rainbow robe thing, which was like the splashiest, most amazing thing that I've ever seen. So that was for me, like the starting point. And then to find out so much more.

[Willie Geist]

Speaking of splashiness, Maggie, I heard that she was a sneakerhead.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Yes.

[Maggie Law]

Which I think you, I'm a bit of, I was gonna say would call

[Willie Geist]

yourself sneaker head, but I'm like a lowbrow sneaker head. The speaker heads get like the expensive, rare. I just go to Tanger Outlet on,

[Maggie Law]

I know the Puma Outlet, Long island.

[Willie Geist]

Anything over $29.99, I am out.

[Maggie Law]

Right.

[Willie Geist]

But so I was. So I wore a pair of Jordans. Good old Jordan blue, little twist on the original. Nice Jordan ones.

[Lena Waithe]

Like it.

[Willie Geist]

She came in and totally one up me. Not with sneakers, but with the most resplendent, extraordinary pair of slippers.

[Lena Waithe]

Slippers.

[Willie Geist]

Suit. Like a high fashion two piece suit.

[Lena Waithe]

Sure.

[Willie Geist]

Great. And then I looked down for the sneakers like, hey, we're gonna have a sneaker thing. And she's like, no, I've moved on.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Slippers.

[Willie Geist]

Slippers.

[Maggie Law]

Like slides.

[Alicia Hasee]

They were slides. They were slides, but they were like very fancy leather slides with bunny ears.

[Maggie Law]

Oh, so literally looked like slippers.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, they were actual, like bedtime slippers, but to be worn out in public at noon or whenever we spoke.

[Alicia Hasee]

And she looked fabulous.

[Willie Geist]

She looked fantastic.

[Maggie Law]

I'm sure she looked amazing.

[Willie Geist]

They did. They had floppy bunny ears on either side. When she walked down the streets of New York, the bunny ears flopped. I mean, someone with a level of self confidence that I don't think I have to wear a pair of slippers

[Maggie Law]

won't be catching you in bunny eared slippers.

[Willie Geist]

You, Maggie, are Master of none fan, right?

[Maggie Law]

Yes, I love Master of None and that's.

[Willie Geist]

She won the Emmy, of course, for writing that amazing episode.

[Maggie Law]

Yeah. And I was gonna say, I think the Emmy speech is sort of what put her on the map for most people. And that's. I mean, I knew her as somebody on the show, but then to see that speech, you were like, oh, wow, she's gonna go places in Hollywood for sure.

[Willie Geist]

You heard in the interview that I was born in Evanston too. I lived there till I was five. She and I would have gone probably to high school together, although I'm a little older than she is, but we would have gone to the same high school anyway. And I loved what she said about coming from the south side of Chicago, then moving out to the suburbs and getting a new understanding of different cultures that's informed and help her become a better writer and producer and Hollywood force that she's become.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Alicia Hasee]

And it's great. That's the whole point behind the Shy right is that there's no one Chicago, and that every experience that everyone has is just as human, whether you're in Evanston or the south side.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Alicia Hasee]

And it's nice that she can have all those perspectives.

[Willie Geist]

Well, I hope a bunch of people go see this new movie. You, you'll see it. You'll be uncomfortable at times. I think it's fair to say I'd be interested to hear what everybody thinks about it. Definitely tests you, but it's a good flick. It's called Queen and Slim. As I mentioned, it's in theaters now. Alicia, Maggie, thank you both. Great to see you. And thank all of you as well for tuning in again this week. If you want to hear more of the full length conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today on your television set every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit down podcast.

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