A (2:19)

Right.

B (2:20)

And that is a huge weight that they carry and them and us as. Um. And so in the last year, I've. When he would get really in his head about that, like, am I done? Is this gonna. I'm like, you had such an incredible career. He's like, I know, but it's not. Like, I don't want. And he wants to make a decision. Exactly. And he wants to make this decision. And I've talked to so many of my girlfriends about that in the last year of kind of like, you. You don't know if you will get the call back. And he. Because he didn't want to be done. Like, it's just hard. And so many girls have said the exact same thing. Like, everyone feels this way. Like, it's so rare to be the one to make that decision to be done. And so you have to remember that. That what a gift that is to have that kind of, like, closure and that mental clarity that, like, yes, this part of my life is ending. Um, and so with that, we're like, okay, it's free agency. We know. Like, we knew that a couple teams were interested, um, and he had a couple workouts scheduled. And then the call was very unexpected the way that it happened. Um, but we are extremely grateful. And we were with the Dolphins already once in 2019. And then going into Covid. We lived a lot of life in that one season with the Dolphins. We got engaged there. We were in quarantine there, like it was. And so circling back and getting to go back there. He keeps saying he feels like the portal is closing. Like, you know, everyone's life. Lives just, like, ended in 2020. He's like, what if we move back to Miami and, like, the timeline restarts again?

A (3:44)

Right. Well, I have to say, though, like, the career of a long snapper is very. From, like, the career of, like, a defensive lineman. Because I feel like long snappers can be out of the game for, like, a year or two and then still get a call.

B (3:59)

Yes, totally. And that does. And that does happen. And so that was another part of, like, the encouragement of the last year of, like, this actually happens a lot. We know a lot of people, we are very close friends in the league that this has happened to, where they haven't played. They didn't play for two years, and now they're a Pro Bowler, and they've been with the same team for four years, you know, so it's like, truly, like, they. They. They can take these gaps if they stay in shape, they keep up with what they're doing. Yeah. I mean, there's a long snapper. I don't remember his name, but he. He actually wrote a book, and he had been in the league a couple years, got done, was a high school teacher, and then just randomly got a call during playoffs, and then went and won the super bowl with the Patriots. I'm serious. I'm serious. Like, because they needed a long snapper, and he was just, like, teaching high school, and then all of a sudden was a Super bowl champion, like, a week later just because, like, he could still. Still snap a ball. So it is. You're absolutely right that it's kind of one of those things that you. I don't know which. We're. We're privileged in that way, but we're also. I don't know. It's. It's weird. There's positives and negatives for it, for sure.

A (5:01)

Well, I can. I kind of compare it to, like, the job of, like, a kicker is, like, you can stay in the league if you're a kicker for a really long time, but, like, if you mess up, like, twice, they could be like, okay, you're done. So it's kind of like all or nothing. And that part really stresses me out. So how many plays does your husband play in an NFL game?

B (5:20)

Allie, here's the thing. This is, like, I get, like, when I do podcasts, I'm like, how footbally are we talking?

A (5:28)

Because I. I just. I'm picturing a long snapper. And, like, what is the job of a long snapper?

B (5:33)

Okay. Okay, this. For 10 years in. I should be able to answer this question. I think I can. Okay, so they. They snap the ball to the punter for returns and then for field goals. So, like, if they're. When the kicker's kicking a field goal, how the ball gets to the kicker, that starts with tabor, so he's like, the beginning of that operation. And then for punt returns, he's the one who snaps the ball to the

A (5:57)

punter, a very crucial position, and, like, a position that, like, you really can't fuck up, because if the ball goes, like, over somebody's head, you're like, oh, okay. Which.

B (6:06)

You know, which happens. And so that. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's kind of. It's. I mean, the. The thing about long snappers that everyone kind of acknowledges and accepts. It's like, you shouldn't know their name. And if you know their name, it's more than likely a bad thing.

A (6:20)

Yes.

B (6:21)

Because that, like, something has happened. So, yeah, that's. It's like, to be seen and not heard is typically the goal. We're both mouthy people, so sometimes it doesn't go super well. But that is, for the most part, you want to not really have a lot of attention drawn to you.

A (6:37)

Not really know who he is. Exactly. Well. And I started following you on social media back when I saw you. You posted, like. Like a Instagram reel or something on you traveling from Michigan to San Francisco when your husband was playing for San Francisco. And I was like, oh, wow, she doesn't live with her husband. Like, this is so interesting. And also, being from Michigan, I was like, ooh, like, I need to follow this girl. Like, this is crazy. So do you plan to move to Miami?

B (7:06)

No. So, first of all, I didn't know you were from Michigan until actually, like, quite recently. And that's just very cool. We're in Ann Arbor, so there's something about Michigan girls. I'm just like, oh, we're gonna get. Oh, for sure, for sure. Where did you go to college?

A (7:19)

Michigan State.

B (7:20)

You did?

A (7:20)

Oh, my God.

B (7:21)

Wait, when. What year did you graduate?

A (7:24)

2018.

B (7:26)

I was like, you're so pregnant. You don't have to remember.

A (7:29)

I know. I'm like, literally, like, I'm lucky I remember my name right now.

B (7:33)

Oh, my God. That's so. So. Okay, so TABOR was 2015 or 16. 16. So you guys overlapped a little bit. But that's so cool. Oh, my God. Because that's. Yeah, he went to Michigan State.

A (7:42)

That's insane. I mean, what a small world. But so I was like, okay, I like this Michigan girl. She's traveling. And I always thought it was so interesting that you chose to not move to San Francisco. Yeah, like, I respected it.

B (7:53)

Thank you. So it started. It really started, like, in a very boring way. And it's just that, like, I had a job that wasn't remote. And so I worked at the University of Michigan here, and I started working there pre Covid before remote working, especially in my field was really a thing. I worked in admissions at the School of Music, Theater, and Dance. So I was, like, in auditions all the time. I was around. Like, I had to be physically where I was. And so that's really, like, how it's like, I started commuting. Commuting. I think when he was with the Dolphins the first time, I went down there for like six months, I think, which my job was like, pretty flexible. I went into more of like a remote role and I just didn't love being there full time. I really missed my daily life, which I think is not something that I think we're maybe supposed to say out loud, like during football season. They're not around a whole lot. They're at. They're at the facility most of the time. Especially, you know, we've never lived in. He's never played for a team that's like, easy to get home. So it's a long commute. Especially once he then went to San Francisco, there was a time change. And so again, still having my job in Michigan, Covid was like a weird year he went to. So, okay, the timeline is very, very bizarre. We were in. We were in Miami. He got cut from the Dolphins. And so because it was Covid, like, the league was basically on lockdown for workouts. So nobody could go anywhere. If you did get a workout, you had to quarantine for like a week. It was crazy. So by the time he got to San Francisco, it was like fall 2020. I moved back to Michigan and came back to my job here. And again, we were kind of like hybrid at that point, but still a lot of like in person work. And so it really started just in like a very like, practical way. Like I just had a job here. And most people didn't really realize that. They're like, oh, you don't live with him full time? I'm like, no, I have a job.

A (9:59)

I have a career. Yeah.

B (10:01)

I'm like, I have a job that I like, actually really like. And I don't. Yeah. And so when everything changed is when we had our first baby. So we got married 2021, and then I had her for. I had our baby summer 2022. And that was like, okay, something needs to change here. Because there was just no way that I could handle my full time job. And still needing to be in both places, him being all the way across the country, you know, eastern time zone, five hour flight, three hour time change. Like, it was just a lot. And so I did make the decision to leave my job, be full time mom and I. So she was, what I mean, like six weeks old, I think, when he left for camp. And I was just me alone with this baby. And I was very. I was just very unprepared. Like, I didn't hire Help. I didn't have a nanny. I didn't have overnight help. Like, it was just me alone with this baby, and he was in camp. And I was like, what the. Oh, my God. What the fuck do I do?

A (11:01)

Like, I can't.

B (11:02)

I can't do this. And I got very burnout very, very quickly. And at that point, I was kind of going, like, a month. I went out for, like, all of September. I'd go home for October a month. And it really. The reason why I was going back and forth is because. And a lot of people get, like, kind of squeamish when I talk about this. Like, San Francisco is very expensive. We couldn't really afford to live in, like, very comfortably with a baby. And we had a dog out there, too, and then paying for childcare. If I did happen to work. Like, it was just the resources were very complicated. And so that is how it turned into me just going back and forth, because I found that to be like, yes, the flying with the baby was a lot, but I could go out for a couple weeks at a time, have a routine out there, and then come home and be in my own house with my mom nearby. With our. I mean, we live in a neighborhood where we. Like, I'm best friends with my neighbors, and they were my village. Like, these women were my support system. And I'm so grateful for that because so many people don't have something like that. And so leaving that as a new mom was a lot to give up. Oh, right. To go out to.

A (12:07)

I don't think part of the NFL is talked about enough, in fact, because now your husband signs with a new team, you're like, I don't know anybody in that city. Anybody around. Like, not even in the surrounding states. Like, there's no village, no community. Like, you're kind of starting from square one. And that can be a lot. And it can also be, like, a lot in your marriage, a lot of your mental health. It's a ton.

B (12:29)

Yeah. And it was especially hard, too, because our first season with. The same with. With the 49ers was in Covid, and so there were no fans, no events. They got kicked out of California at one point, if you remember, and got moved to Arizona. So it wasn't even, like. So I didn't meet anybody. And then the first season we were out there, I was still working, so I was going back and forth. I was pregnant and, like, miserable. And so I was trying to fly as little as possible. And, like, my busy season for work was like. Like, December, January. And I think. I think maybe we went to the. I don't even. I don't even know. I don't remember. I was gonna say if we went to playoffs, but, like, that was too long ago. I don't remember. But I just remember, like, it was a lot. And so I frontloaded a lot of my travel, so I just really hadn't made friends. Like, I hadn't met people and I didn't really. The two seasons had gone by, he had renewed, he had signed a new contract. I'm like, okay, I think, like, we're gonna be here. I need. I need to make friends. I need to make a village. And I eventually did. I eventually did, but it did. It took a while. And going back and forth obviously made that harder. Like, if you're not there for things, like you don't meet people, you don't make connections. But I really did make it work for me. And I was very afraid to say that out loud for a while. A lot of people were like, why aren't you there full time? And I would kind of make up excuses of like, I don't know. I was just. I was wishy washy. And I finally got comfortable saying, like, I just don't want to. Like, I just, I just don't want to. I don't. Because I say, I, yeah, I'm like, I just don't want to. San Francisco is a really tough place to live. The cost of living also, what you just said, it's like hard to get to new team, make connections. With San Francisco, it's especially hard because everyone lives super far apart from each other.

A (14:07)

I was going to say it's a very interesting NFL city in my eyes. It's not like, like if, for example, the Raiders, it was like, you're either living in this city or this city. And then there's like some outliers, but it's pretty, like concentrated where, you know, people, where people live.

B (14:21)

And this is the total opposite. Where I. We lived. There was one season we lived 30 minutes from the stadium, which in San Francisco, 30 minutes is a really long time. And so it wasn't until our last season there that we lived basically like in the parking lot of the stadium. We lived right. My husband, no tabor, would ride a scooter. He bought a scooter that he would ride to the stadium every day so we didn't have to drive. Like we were that close. But then two of my best friends on the team also lived in that same complex so that it was Like a little sorority. Like, it literally felt like a college campus, which was amazing. But the four years prior, we did not have that. And everybody was so spread apart, and it just made getting together and doing things a lot, a lot harder. Like, had I had the community that I had our last year there, the entire time, things would have been very different because the. Our last year there, I was there full time because I was extremely pregnant again with our second. Yeah, I had him during season, like a week before the last game. And so just for, like, health reasons, I had to be there full time. And it was totally doable because I felt very comfortable in where we were living. But it took five years to get there. So I think it's like there's just so many growing pains with all of this that, yeah, people don't really think of that. It's like we have this expectation, or I think a lot of people have this expectation of us to just drop everything and move for this opportunity because it's so incredible. But there are. There are insurmountable sacrifices with that. And not everybody's lives look the same. Not everybody has the same resources, which is a whole other conversation. But, yeah, I made it. I made it work. And to answer your question, 10 minutes later, yes, I'm doing it again, but this time I'm very much doing it again. Like, I will go back and forth just because we have no idea how long this is going to last. Like, they signed them to a one year deal, you know, as much as I do. Like, that could mean anything. We don't really know. It's just OTAs we have to get through camp and all that stuff. Like, for now, we're going to love it and appreciate it and be excited to take the kids to the beach. And I'm gonna go for like a week in May, and then we'll figure it out. Exactly. We'll figure it out from there.

A (16:28)

Well, that you kind of answered my. My next question, because I was gonna say, do you feel like people underestimate how much moving, schedule, chaos, unpredictability comes with being an NFL family?

B (16:38)

Oh, my God.

A (16:39)

Yes.

B (16:40)

Yes. And, you know, I remember, I think that how old was my first baby? I think. When was Scotty born?

A (16:47)

2023.

B (16:49)

2023. Okay. Because I remember. I remember when you were pregnant and when you had her. And I like, I. My, like, I just remember that feeling. Like, my heart sank when I realized that you were having to move when you were so pregnant and having to find a new doctor. It's things like, that. That, like, the moving alone is one aspect. Like, when he got cut from the Dolphins and went to San Francisco, I packed up that entire house, moved it all. Like, put it in a pod, shipped the pod, then moved it from California because he needed some of his shit in California. Then we moved the pod back to Michigan because we bought this house here. And so it's like. And I did all of that by myself. And I packed his car to ship his car out to California. And then you ship the car back. Like, that part, it almost becomes just, like, wash and repeat, like a science. But then you throw having kids onto it and the having to find a new doctor, especially, like, you had to do it very quickly. It's just a level of. It's just a weight that is very, very hard to explain. And so I just. I've always had a lot of respect for you that you went through that so late in pregnancy. I really. It's. You're very strong for having gone through that.

A (18:02)

Well, I look back at my postpartum journey, and I'm like, no wonder I was depressed. Like, I was liter thrown into the fire. Everyone this time is like, oh, are you scared you're gonna get postpartum depression? I'm, like, not really. Like, I'm not moving. My husband's gonna be present. Like, I actually feel like, no. And I'm living in, like, the same city. Like, I have friends here. I have a village. Whereas in, like, I literally. I honestly. I don't know. We moved, like, three times in her first four months of life, I'm like, why didn't you. It was crazy. But I actually want to talk about you becoming a.

B (18:35)

Of part.

A (18:36)

A postpartum doula. A doula. And all of that, because, like, when did you decide, like, oh, this is something I really want to do and, like, pursue it while my husband's in the NFL. I think it's funny that I want to pause and say, I think it's funny that people think that because your husband's in the NFL, like, you don't have your own dreams and aspirations.

B (18:53)

Oh, I could talk about this forever

A (18:58)

if I was in the NFL. And they're like, oh, cool. And then don't even ask if you have a job. And I'm like, I am my own person. Like, don't you worry.

B (19:07)

I could literally talk about this forever. So you're gonna have to stop me in, like, a few minutes. But it is a very. It can be a very hard world for a woman who has their own goals. And it just is. And like, again, that's. I don't know. I feel like I like to say the stuff that people don't like to say out loud, but, like, that is.

A (19:28)

That's something I like about you.

B (19:30)

Thank you. You do? You do. But I. Yeah. This can be a really hard position for someone who has their own aspirations and who has their own goals and is even on a path towards doing something with them. And then your life has to get halted for this thing that is so big and has such a shelf life that it's like, that's where the sacrifice comes in. It's like, okay, we know this isn't going to last forever. And especially now, we know that we are much closer to the end of this than we were at the beginning. So it's like, how do we.

A (20:04)

Are we definitely on the back end? For sure. Yeah.

B (20:07)

And I remember that hitting me. It was like, it was our last season in San Francisco, and I remember somebody asking me, like, how many years in? And I, like, heard myself say it out loud for the first time. I'm like, oh, my God, he's really old.

A (20:17)

Especially in the NFL. Like, that's really old.

B (20:20)

Yeah, I'm like, three.

A (20:21)

Three or four years is almost. Is like, oh, like you've been around the block, you know, but then you get to like, 8, 6, 7, 8. Like, okay, yeah, well, this guy is old.

B (20:32)

Well, you know what? It finally, like, when it really hit me, I was like, I think I'm the oldest one on the team. Like, I think I'm the oldest woman on the team. And that isn't that crazy. I'm like, I'm 33, chill.

A (20:43)

I'm in early 30s, and I'm the oldest of the team. Like, this is. Something's wrong here. I literally, at one point, like, I

B (20:49)

googled, like, well known wives on our team. I was like, how old is Olivia?

A (20:56)

It's almost crazier. When Isaac was, like, making his way out, I was like, am I old enough to be like, these kids? Moms? I. What is the age gap here? I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately, focusing more on quality over quantity and just kind of building a wardrobe of pieces that are well made, versatile, and easy to reach for every day. Especially heading into postpartum. I'm like, I don't want getting dressed every single day to be hard, but I still want to wear good, quality pieces. And that's why I keep coming back to quints. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. So if you guys are new to Quince, Quince makes beautiful everyday pieces using premium materials like 100 European linen, organic cotton and super soft denim with style starting around $50. Their spring pieces are lightweight, breathable and effortless. The kind of things that you throw on and instantly look and feel very put together. And that same focus on materials carries over into their accessories. So like their leather bags, which are made from 100% hand woven Italian leather and honestly look way more expensive than they actually are. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman so that you're paying for quality and not the brand markup. So if you're anything like me and you're trying to refresh your wardrobe, maybe elevate a few of your key pieces, definitely try Quince. Head over to Quince. You can refresh your spring wardrobe with Quince. You can go to quint.com Sunday for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to Q U I n c e.com Sunday for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Sun when it comes to feeling myself, my hair plays into how confident I feel more than I'd like to think. And then I have a really good hair day and I'm like, wow. Like I, I feel like I look really good. And especially heading into postpartum, I know that I'm probably going to lose, you know, a few strands here or there if it's anything like my first postpartum. So something I've already done when prepping for postpartum is get my Nutrafol going again. If you guys are new to Nutrafol, if you've never heard of them, Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Nutrafol's hair growth supplements are peer reviewed, NSF certified for sport and clinically tested. And it's not a one size fits all approach. Nutrafol offers multiple formulas for men and women tailored to different life stages. So like for example, they have a formula dedicated for postpartum or even for menopause and lifestyle factors such as plant based diet so that you can get the support that's actually right for you. Adding neutrful to your daily routine is really easy. You order online, no prescription needed and automated deliveries and free shipping to keep you on track. Plus, with a Nutraful subscription, you can save up to 20% and get added perks to support your hair health journey. So let your hair be one less thing to worry about. See visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in just three to six months with the Neutrophil. For a limited time, Neutrophil is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit neutral.com and enter promo code Sunday. That's neutropol.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code Sunday.

B (24:33)

Well, that's like, that's a hard part. We talk about the community and the village and all that too, that a lot of, a lot of the women coming out are like in their early twenties. And so you're living in two very different, you're living two very different lives for sure. And I think that can also be very complicated when you're trying to make new friends. But anyway, but yes, as being like being a person that has their own, their own thing going on. It's just, it's looked at weird sometimes. Like, like I said, the whole reason that I, like people started paying attention to what I was doing on the Internet is because I'm like, no, I don't live there full time. And a lot of it was because I was so trigger shy of like, oh my God, what if we move and then he gets cut? Which is like quite literally what happened, by the way.

A (25:14)

Like, and I was, I was like,

B (25:16)

okay, so by the way, the thing that I was afraid of for five years, I finally did it and then that bad thing happened. So, yeah, I told you so. But yet, like, what I'm, and I've said this for years, what I'm doing will always be less interesting than what he's doing right now. And for a person like me, that's hard. That's really hard. Like, I have been high achieving, I've had my own things going on. Like, I have big things that I want to do and having to make that sacrifice for the person that you love, that's what you do. And like, we've this, it has blessed us insurmountably. Like, we live a great life and it is very much because of this thing that he's done. But there's a lot that we've given up to be able to do that. So I just think that, like, all parts of that conversation really need to be acknowledged. Not just the happy, amazing, glamorous things. Like, we're having a really good week, but we had a lot of really bad weeks in the last year before that. So but how I got into being a doula. So I have always been, like, interested in, like, pregnancy and birth and just like, I. Women's health has just, like, always really fascinated me. My friends being pregnant. Like, well, I really. I was kind of like one of the first of my friends to have a baby, which, by the way, everybody thinks then when you're the first of your friends to have a baby, everybody thinks you're an obgyn. I don't actually know what I'm talking about.

A (26:40)

Like, hey, what is. I'm going to send you a picture of this. Like, what is. I have no idea.

B (26:44)

Oh, my God. Well, now that I actually am a doula, I have so many disgusting pictures on my phone. Like, gross. Really gross. If you ever. You want to.

A (26:54)

Yeah, I'm like, I'll. I'll send some more your way.

B (26:57)

Yeah, I'm like, I know you only have a few weeks left, so let me know. But I. So I'd always been really interested in it. And I. When I was pregnant with my first, I was just like, wow, there are a lot of gaps in care here. Like, there's a lot of stuff that could just be a lot different, especially because I was alone for the vast majority of my pregnancy because I was here in Michigan working, and he was in California. And I got a doula for a lot of reasons, but one of which was like, I got my own birth doula. I had heard of them. I knew what they were. A big mislike interpretation is that, like, are they a midwife? Are they doctors? So they're. We are not care. We are not women's health care providers. We are support people. So we help physically, emotionally, psychologically, all of that going through the birth and. And postpartum process. But I. So I certified to do birth and be like a birth support person. But then I also have a separate postpartum certification, so I can be there in the home with you or wherever you are, postpartum, either overnight during the day as just like a second set of hands so you can go to sleep. If you need someone to clean your kitchen, do like late housekeeping, we'll do that. We'll do as much as you want us to do with the baby. It's really. It's an incredible, incredible resource that I sincerely wish was free and everybody had one. But. So the reason I got my own birth doula was because he. I was due right at the end of OTAs and I knew there was a chance that I could deliver early. I did end up going Only a week early. With my second, I went three weeks early, which was a whole other reason for why I needed extra support out there. But yeah, so like a huge reason was like, I could be alone in the hospital, he could be on a plane in California, whatever. And like, I need someone with me. And so going through that, he did end up being there. He literally landed from OTAs Friday night and she was born Monday. So, like, it was a very quick turnaround. Yeah, it was a very quick turnaround, but just having that other person in the room with me at the hospital. I had a hospital birth and I think that was the other thing that I thought. Like, I, I think in my mind before that I'm like, oh, doulas only do home births. Or it's just like, it's a super crunchy thing, which, like, I'm a little bit crunchy, but I'm not like home birth crunchy. Yeah, mostly because I'm too nervous. But I. Yeah, just having someone else in the room to advocate for you, to just have someone to like bounce ideas off of, to just be like, hold on, this is not an emergency yet. If it is an emergency, it's an emergency. But also sometimes having someone being there with like another set of eyes to just almost like an advocate in a way too beyond. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And so I was like, I could do this forever. I and so started kind of answering questions for my friends and reading more on my own. And I read a lot of books from doulas and from midwives and then started connecting with a lot of people on social media. And I was like, this is what I'm going to do. Like, I was kind of in this weird in between stage of I don't think I want to go back to higher education. But like, I'm so like creatively unfulfilled. And I love being a wife and a mom, but I am just a person who needs something else. Like, I need something else to make me show up the best way that I can. And that's also a completely admirable and okay thing for women to say if you're feeling that way. But anybody listening to this, like, sometimes you just need more. And I think anyone should explore that if they're kind of feeling that way.

A (30:42)

I'm very similar to you in that way that I need something out. Like I need something else more. Like something else to fill up my cup. I need like a creative outlet. Like, I need something more. And that's good, that's a good thing.

B (30:54)

It's A totally. It's totally a good thing because it fulfills you. It makes you show up better for your kids, for your husband, for yourself. Like, none of these are bad things. So just. Yeah. To put that out there. If anybody is like.

A (31:07)

Like, I don't hate my kids because I want to spend time away from them doing my own thing.

B (31:12)

Yeah. Yes. Because again, like, I. This is now the third time I'm gonna say it. It makes you show up better. Like, it makes you better if you feel fulfilled in that way. So I went to. I think it was spring 20. I don't know. I think she was maybe, like, 18 months old. I was like, I'm gonna do this. And I had become really good friends with, like, local doulas and just, like, asking, like, how do you even do this? How do you start. You just start attending births, like, what? And I. So I did all of the training, all the certifications. Spring 20, 23. And then I just really, like, dove head first. And I'm really into a lot of activism and advocacy, and so there's a whole, like, that's really tied into it, especially with women's healthcare. And so, yeah, I just. I love it. It's. There are so many gaps in care, whether it's in the hospital, postpartum. Like, and this is a whole nother thing that I'm now really, really trying to figure out how maybe I can. I. Or the world can craft something like this in hospitals. Like, there's such an opportunity for postpartum doulas in the hospital. And I didn't really realize that until I delivered our second in season. And tabor was at practice. It was Wednesday afternoon. I had been in labor for, like, two weeks, but I was really early. So, like, I. I was like, I. I'm having this baby today. Like, I'm 100 positive. So I called our community relations girl, and I was like, who was a very good friend of mine. And I was like, all to meet me in the hospital. Like, I'm, like, actively having a baby in the car. And so she went and pulled him out of practice. He met me at the hospital. And then, like, 12 hours later, he's like, all right, I gotta go. I'm like, what do you mean, you gotta go? Like, I just didn't really think about it. Like, I was so prepared for being out there. I had our. One of our sitters, who was also a very good friend of mine. I had her fly out a week before my mom did, because I was like, I just have a Feeling he's gonna come early. He did. So I was like, prepare it on the home front. Like I had.

A (33:05)

Right.

B (33:06)

Someone to be with our daughter. I knew like I had someone with the dogs here. Like I knew everyone was fine except for me being in the hospital alone with this baby.

A (33:15)

Wait, I'm alone?

B (33:17)

Yeah. I just didn't think about it because he and that, like, that's another thing that I think people listening probably will find interesting. Like these guys don't get paternity leave, they don't get an extended time off. And depending on the day you give birth during the season, like they might not get any time off. So I think he might get a

A (33:32)

few hours and like that's it.

B (33:33)

Yeah, yeah, he, I had, I delivered it 6 o' clock in the evening and I think at like 4:35am he's like, I gotta go back to the facility and take a shower and like take a nap. Okay. To like start meetings at seven, you know. And then I think he came back that following afternoon and then went home to sleep. Because they Saturday the other with California, a lot of the time they leave if it's an eastern time zone game, like if they're flying in a way game in a different time zone, they'll leave a whole day early. So that was another hard part about being in California that you're. When I was out there alone, depending on the game, some away games, it's like, oh, they're only gone for like, you know, 24 hours, maybe even less for this. It's like a three day ordeal. So anyway, my point, yeah, my point in that is that Friday morning he had to leave to go to Miami to. For their away game. And I was like, oh shit, I'm really alone with this baby.

A (34:33)

I could really use some support.

B (34:35)

Yeah. Yeah. And so I was just like, wow, like what if they are. And, and then it, I, I felt, then I felt very silly of like, oh my God, I am, I am very privileged that I had a partner at all who was able to be here at all. There are so many women who do give birth alone and we really don't think about that. And so like that alone, just having a second set of hands either during delivery or afterwards, especially if you have a C section and having to get up and navigate that by yourself. Like there's just, I don't know, it's just a really, it's a missed opportunity right now to have that extra support. And I'm trying to figure out how to, I don't know Run with that.

A (35:12)

Birth in general is a kind of like, terrifying experience. I know it's, like, beautiful and it's miracle and like, yada yada, but, like, it is actually terrifying. Like, just the things that happen to you. And you're just like, okay, sure, like, like, I'm going to check you. You're like, okay, like, do I have a choice? Or like, I remember after my C section, they like, really wanted me to pee and I. I was like, I'm sorry, I just can't do that. Right? And they're like, okay, we're going to put a catheter back in. I was like, without numbing, without anything. I was like, you're like, okay, fine, I'll pee. Like, fine. But it's like so crazy because you're the. All these things are happening to you, to your body, and you kind of. It just has to like, get pushed to the back of your mind. And I think to myself, like, wow, I laid awake on an operating table while they, like, opened me up and took out a baby and then put me back together. Like, it's just mind blowing and nobody really prepares you for it. What. What's something that you wish more women knew about preparing for birth?

B (36:15)

Oh, my gosh. That you have options. Absolutely. First and foremost, that you have options. Like you said, they're gonna check me. Can I say no? Yes. Yes, you can say no. That you have a lot of options and I'm not there. There is a large spectrum of doulas who are, like, have their own ideology and their own opinions on a lot of things. I am very like, whatever you want to do, we're gonna do. If you want to give birth in a handstand, like, that sounds fun. Let's do it. Like, I, I, like, I have zero, zero bias. I am the. Whatever you want to do, let's do it. You can absolutely say no to a lot. Not everything. Not everything to a lot. But if there is. If there is actively no emergency, obviously your provider, hopefully you're with someone who you trust. If baby's heart rate is fine, you are fine. Your. Your blood pressure is okay, your heart rate is okay. Like, you can wait. And I actually, this is something that I share with all everyone, clients, people on the Internet, everyone. There's an acronym called brain. And you are going into having a baby very soon. So I want you to remember this too. It's called. It's. It's just a way that you can make decisions, benefit. Okay. I'm have to remember benefits. I literally have To Google this. So I'm going to forget brain acronym tula. Okay. Benefits, risks, alternatives, intuition, or nothing. So when, when you're given an option of like, okay, your, your doctor comes in, your provider says, I think it. Do you want an epidural? Maybe it's time for an epidural. What are the benefits? What are the risks? What is maybe. Excuse me. What is an alternative? How do you feel? Like, what is your instinct telling you? Like, do you think it's time or just do nothing? Let's just wait. So I really, really like that every hospital room I go into, I write that on the whiteboard of like, this is how if you feel lost and not sure how to navigate the next step. Like, if you're in an induction and they say, hey, I want to break your water. Okay, why do. Do we have to. What are the benefits? Like, are there. Are there risks to this? Let's just wait. Like, let's do nothing. So that's my very favorite tool of just a decision making. Of like, given it's not an emergency, baby's heart rate is stable, everyone is technically fine. Like in birth, are you ever, like, really fine? But like, everybody's technically fine. It's just a nice way to be able to just like stop and make a decision. And again, having a third person there or just an extra set of hands, set of eyes to walk through decision making processes. Or if there's something, if you have a provider who you're not really jiving with. Like, that also can be a doula's job of like, I don't think this is working. I don't know if this is like, we're communicating the best and maybe we need like a change in care. Like, that's just. I don't know, it's just really, really helpful to have someone else be only on your team. They are. They do not work for the hospital. They do not work for anybody else. They are there for you and for your family.

A (39:23)

I did not learn until this pregnancy that you don't always give birth with your doctor because I had a scheduled C section. So like, I scheduled it for a day that he was able to do the C section and like, bada boom, bada bing. Like, had a breech baby, not much to think about. And I was talking with my friends a few weeks ago and I was like, oh yeah, like, my doctor, he's like super pro V back. Like, he, he has like a huge great, love it. And then I was like, wait, like, what if he's not on Call. And I like, spontaneously go into labor and like, all of a sudden, like, the doctor at the hospital is not super pro V back and cut you open. This is. And then I started regretting not getting a doula because I was like, oh, like, I need somebody to advocate for me that knows more than I do about birth, about these, like, birthing experiences. What are the benefits? What are the, like, all of that? Because you don't. You choose your doctor, but, like, your doctor might not be working that day. He might be on vacation.

B (40:23)

Yeah, that's exactly what happened with my first. I did not deliver with my actual doctor. I got very, very lucky, though. I had. I delivered at U of M the first. And they have, like, midwives kind of run the labor and delivery floor. So they have. You can. When you check in, basically you can have a doctor laborist or a midwife. And I chose to have a midwife laborist. I was a super low risk pregnancy. I was like, sure, why not? I am so obsessed with the woman who delivered my baby. Like, I. Now she is like, every time I'm at the hospital for a birth, I'm like, is. Is it like, I. I just wish that she delivered every baby that there ever was, ever. So I got very lucky. And then with my second, I got lucky again because my doctor in California happened to be on call, which thank God, because I had to switch obs during pregnancy. And so you're going to a completely new clinic that I had never been to before, other than, like, you know, a handful of scans. And then in a hospital that I had absolutely never been to before. Different, just different environment, different city, different part of the country. Like, everything was just so different. And so I got, I mean, very, very lucky that she happened to be on call. But, yeah, that's something to prepare for. And that's a perfect example of, like, you might walk into the hospital and you're hoping to have a VBAC. Some doctors aren't as comfortable with VBACs. That's. That's just a fact. Some just aren't as comfortable. And so, like, that's something for you to know going in of, like, this might be something that I might have to push for. Your doctor is totally cool with it. And also the other thing is, like, you can always call your doctor, like, just try to get a hold of them. Like, that's because I think we so often want to just be like, good patience. We want to just not overstep or whatever. But, like, at the end of the day, especially with Childbirth and women's health and the way that that can unfortunately go south in this country. I'm just gonna say it like, you be the squeaky wheel. So that is my other piece of advice. Like, you be the squeaky wheel. If something feels off, say something. Because they're like, the. Like. That also goes for, like, if you're feeling something weird right now. There are so many times I get calls or texts of, like, something feels weird. I don't know if I should go in, be annoying. I'm like, be annoying. Go in.

A (42:36)

There's like, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? You're gonna feel better afterwards.

B (42:39)

Yeah, the worst thing that's gonna happen is they're gonna be like, you're fine. Go home. And you're like, okay, I just, you know, spent a couple hours. But, like, that's. Yeah, just be the squeaky wheel. Speak up if something ever feels off. That is by far the most important thing.

A (42:53)

Oh, I love that. And I really. I'm manifesting that my doctor does deliver this baby, because I love it.

B (43:00)

I am, too. I am, too. It's gonna happen. I'm so excited that you're. That you're going for a vbac, too. That's really cool.

A (43:07)

I just. I feel like. And I've gone back and forth because I'm like, I'm not super, like, gung ho. Like, we have to do my birth this way. Like, I want it to be this way. And, like, I. I don't have all these, like, like, expectations in my brain, which I think is a good thing. But I am like. I feel like my body is, like, made. Like, I have really wide hips, and I just feel like my body is, like, made for this, so I just want to try.

B (43:30)

And I'm like, I think you can do it. I love it. That's awesome. Now I'm very, very invested in this, working out.

A (43:39)

Oh, my God. You guys know I live a very active lifestyle. I have taken you guys along through my pregnancy journey, which, yes, does count as a level of activity. I've taken you through marathon training that has kind of gotten halted from pregnancy. But then we're gonna get right back to it after I push this baby out and just being overall just, like, trying to live a healthy, active lifestyle or running after my toddler, always on the go, traveling a ton. And something that I always go back to is needing to hydrate, because dehydration can just cause so many issues. Whether it's brain fog. I mean, you can tell how dehydrated you are just from your urine being a different color, tiredness. And I can just tell when I'm dehydrated. And so I'm really excited to be partnering up with Gatorade Lower Sugar. Here I'm holding a Gatorade in my hands. It's the lemonade flavor and that's something I can get behind, especially when I these days, am consuming a ton of added sugar because, you know, just sweet things sound good these days, but it has that classic Gatorade taste. It doesn't even taste like it's lower sugar, which I kind of love. And Gatorade Lower sugar was created for those who live a very active lifestyle like myself. So, like, whether you're running after your kids, maybe you're running your kids to a soccer practice on the go in your corporate life, heading into a Pilates class, maybe you wake up one morning and you're like, you know what? I could just go for a nice Gatorade. Gatorade Lower sugar is here to help you hydrate better than water does. It has again, 75 less sugar than regular Gatorade and all the electrolytes that you love. Gatorade Lower sugar has the great Gatorade taste and vibrant colors with no artificial flavors, sweeteners, or colors. And again, here I have the lemonade flavor and I'm just going to go ahead and crack this open. A little asmr, if you will. Literally thirst crunching. I feel like this tastes like the lemonade that you would have at like a lemonade stand. Wow, that's incredible. I'm definitely gonna drink this. Being that I am pregnant, I have very specific cravings these days. And one specific craving has been an ice cold Gatorade. So anyways, I'm excited to be partnering up with Gatorade, not only because I've used it basically my entire life, but also because I'm constantly reaching for it these days. And I love the fact that they have an option for lower sugar. If you guys are interested in checking it out, you can try Gatorade Lower Sugar today available on Gatorade.com or and in store nationwide. Visit Gatorade.com to learn more. As a mom, I kind of feel like a broken record whenever I say this, but life is busy and each day I like, go into it expecting like a certain routine and like, this is how the day is gonna look. And then it's like, bam. Like something unexpected happens or my daughter is sick or, I don't know, just life happens and I Feel like life has been happening more so as a parent and as a pregnant parent. And something that I feel like I go into every single year with is I want to be better about, like eating healthy, meal planning, actually using the groceries in my fridge. And then every year life gets busier and busier, and then I get pregnant and everything kind of falls apart. So what finally clicked for me is realizing that meals don't have to look a specific way. They just have to fit your life. And that's what Marley Spoon does really well. What I love is that Marley Spoon actually adapts with you. So some nights you cook, some nights you eat, some nights you heat, and some nights you just need dinner done really freaking fast. And they have options for all of it so that meals fit your schedule and not the other way around. And it helps me eat well without overthinking it. Everything is chef designed, made with quality ingredients and balanced enough so I feel good about it. With Marley Spoon, they give you over 100 recipes to choose from each week. We're talking comforting classics like the chicken melon with cucumber arugula salad to fresh balance dishes like everything bagel salmon with truffle, chive potatoes and green beans, all made with quality ingredients. There's something for every single mood. And Marley Spoon has tons of options in the marketplace, from meal shortcuts and drinks to fresh groceries you can add on every single week. And for those nights when you need dinner done like yesterday, Marley Spoons prepared meals are exactly what they sound like. They're very, very convenient. They're still super delicious and they're on the table in minutes. And these are lifesavers when I really just don't feel like cooking or I get to the end of the day and I'm like, wow, it is bedtime and I still haven't even started dinner. It's for those nights. You'll find these on every weekly menu. And if you've got those extra few minutes, they also have some really good 20 minute options too. My personal favorite hack are the tray Baked dinners literally throw everything onto one tray and boom, you're done. They literally even include the tray. So this new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley spoon. Head to MarleySpoon.com offer/Sunday for up to 25 free meals. That's right. Up to 25 free meals with Marley Spoon. That's Marley Spoon.com offer/Sunday for up to 25 free meals. Do you feel like social media has helped or hurt the way that women experience pregnancy oh, my God.

B (49:02)

So it has. I don't know if it's helped or hurt. I think there's an argument to be made for both. I think it has confused women outrageously. Like, all it has done is cause a lot of distress and confusion of not knowing what to do live, not knowing what decisions to make, of not knowing who's telling the truth, not knowing who has an ulterior motive for the information that they're giving you, who's maybe. Maybe giving you information because they have been scared in a certain way. And so, like, that is why it's just so important to find a. A provider who you really, really trust and you can be very honest with and ask their opinion because they. They are. Who are keeping you safe. And so, like, I. I don't know. I don't. I think there are. There are a lot of benefits to social media when it comes to women's health because, like, the way that we can share information is amazing. I am connected with so many doulas, midwives, doctors who have incredible platforms, who are educating women on their own bodies because we are not taught nearly as much as we should be. Yep. And so that part I'm very, very grateful for. But there are. There's just a lot of information that is not. Whether it's not evidence based on just. It's just blatantly a lie. And a lot of time, unfortunately, a lot of the time, unfortunately, information around pregnancy and birth that is like clickbaity or it's very controversial. Like, that stuff gets a lot of reach. And so people get. People internalize a lot of things that just aren't necessarily true. They're intentionally misleading. I don't know. It just. It really, really scares me. And I do think more than anything, like, everyone is just so confused. And like, they. We feel paralyzed. And we feel paralyzed because we want. We're giving. We're being given all this information, and we want to make the best choice for our baby and for ourselves. Like, at the end of the day, it's vulnerable.

A (51:05)

Like, yes, women feel so vulnerable and, like, they're growing this baby and, like, the baby has to come out one way or the other. And, like, all this information and I feel like women want to do what's best for their baby no matter what, obviously. But then it's like, is this information? Like, for example, like, the Tylenol. It's like, what. Like, you hear so much misinformation, and then people are trying to deliver the facts, but then their facts are being over, like, so there's just so much. And you're like, I really just want to do what's best for me and my baby. But like it's so, it's so social media. Just like anybody has a platform.

B (51:43)

Yes. Yeah. Which is scary.

A (51:46)

Decipher.

B (51:47)

Yeah. And the thing is everybody wants a black and white answer too. And like the vast majority of the time things like this are extremely nuanced. And the long, complicated, like kind of vague answer is really uninteresting. It's like, it's not sexy. It's not like fast quippy. Like this is what's going to give you the best outcome. This is what going to give you the perfect birth. Like people want to be told information that will really give them comfort. And a lot of times the ambiguity with birth is very uncomfortable.

A (52:20)

Yep.

B (52:21)

It's just not, it's like hard to sit with. And so I think that's why a lot of things like the Tylenol thing. Excuse me, that's what you just have to find a doctor who you trust and who you can feel comfortable taking all of this to. When it comes to vaccines at birth, vitamin K, like you just have to be able to talk to your specific provider and just for a second try as hard as you can to block out the noise. Because so much of this really is noise. It's again, either intentionally or unintentionally trying to confuse you, trying to mislead you. And a lot of times there are just alternative motives at play. And so like you just gotta trust your doctor. And also there are a lot of resources that are very, very evidence based. Evidence based birth. I highly recommend. It's a website, it's an Instagram account. Everyone go follow it. That's what a lot of doulas, a lot of birth professionals across the board, but especially a lot of doulas. That's where we get our information from and that's where we share information from. Because it is literally what it's, it's titled, it's all evidence based. And it's just a really good place to start. So that's probably my top recommendation.

A (53:36)

Isn't that crazy? Like evidence based, like that should be like the bare minimum. Like, like I, I just think it's so. But it's like a huge like movement right now is everybody thinks that like their health and wellness and they're holistic and they're. And I'm like, what version of crunchy are you? Like, I know two totally different versions of like what it means to be crunchy.

B (53:59)

Well, I lead now. Now I lead with I'm the witch Crunchy. Like, I'm the crunch. Like, I'm the witch in the woods kind of crunchy. I'm not, like, you know, selling, like, how intense can I get here?

A (54:12)

I'm not selling, like, America healthy. Again, Crunchy.

B (54:15)

Yeah, I'm not. No, I'm not a maha crunchy. I'm not a Maha crunchy. I'm. I'm going to make you a potion, and I'm going to rub it on your feet. Kind of crunchy. You know what I mean?

A (54:23)

You're like, I do free magnesium on my feet before I go to sleep. Like, 100%.

B (54:27)

Yeah. Yeah. When it.

A (54:28)

When it comes to postpartum, what are some tips you think would go, like, a long way when it comes to, like, the mom's mental health? Health, just, like, wellness in general. Like, what do you think? Maybe, like, three things that you think go a long way when it comes to postpartum and postpartum care.

B (54:47)

Okay. So number one, first and foremost, figure out how you're going to feed yourself. And I know that sounds crazy, but, like, figure out how you are going to eat, because it is so easy to just forget to do that, especially if you're breastfeeding. You are going to be. You're. You will be starving. You'll be your thirst. Like, you pumped for a very long time. I know. Like, oh, my God, I was always hungry. You're starving and you're so thirsty. So, like, figure out how you're going to eat. If that looks like freezer meals, if it looks like Meal Train, if you have people around you who can provide food, like, incredible. We were very lucky that my mom was able to come out when we had our second. For the three weeks that we were in California and tabor was still in season. So, like, she fed me. Had she not been there, I would have Uber Eats four times a day, which is, like, fine, if that. If. If that's your solution, dope. So, yeah, figure out how you're gonna feed yourself. Figure out how you can take some breaks. It is really hard, but, like, 10 minutes, just find a way to just be by yourself. You will feel. Maybe not all, but some people might feel guilty about it of, like, oh, my God, I have to be with this baby. Stop. Just go outside. Just go outside. Go for a walk.

A (55:54)

Go outside. Look at the sky.

B (55:57)

Yeah. And now is, like, an amazing time to give birth, too, because it's like, I mean, you live in Orange county, so, like, it's Always a great time to give. I've heard that this is like, the

A (56:05)

best time to give birth, though. Like, so many women are passionate about March and April, baby and baby.

B (56:12)

Yeah. I think you're gonna love it. It's going to be great.

A (56:16)

I already feel like this is so dramatic and I know this, so I'm going to acknowledge it before I say it. But, like, when it's a cloudy morning because we have the marine layer before it gets sunny, I feel seasonally depressed.

B (56:30)

Okay. I'm. Hello. I'm in Michigan. Do you know how many times I've seen the sun in the last six months? Like twice.

A (56:38)

I'm like, I'm genuinely thinking, like, my postpartum depression relies on, like, day to day basis. Is it sunny outside? Yes. Okay, then I'm fine. Is it cloudy? Don't talk to me.

B (56:48)

Don't look at me like, will you have postpartum depression? I don't know. Let's look at the forecast. When we went to Florida for literally 12 hours last week with two kids, this was. This was objectively, in hindsight, a bad decision. But I was like, we don't know if he's ever going to sign a contract again. Let's go. So I took. We all flew, all four of us down to Miami. We were delayed eight hours.

A (57:12)

I saw that. You forgot that.

B (57:13)

Oh, my God. I wanted, like, I wanted to die. I forgot the. So we're in. Neither of us, you know, obviously neither of us want to give up our phone.

A (57:21)

You're like, how are we gonna do.

B (57:23)

We're like, you know, I'm like, it's your turn. You gotta give them the phone. So. Oh, God. Anyway, we landed at like 5:30amWe were back at the airport at like 4:00pm we were literally in Miami for less than 12 hours. However, I was sitting outside on like, a patio at the facility with a coffee and I was like, oh, my God. I've never been this happy. And it's literally just because it was like 75 and sunny. I was like, I am like, I'm not a.

A (57:47)

Everyone's like, oh, because the dolphins. You're like, no, no.

B (57:50)

I'm like, no, no. It literally is just like. I'm like, I'm not a anymore. I'm happy. I'm not yelling at anybody. I'm like, jumping for the vitamin D deficiency. I was like, jumping for joy because it was just like, like, really nice outside anyway, so. Yeah, that. Especially if you live in like, a cloudy area or if it's like, yucky Outside, like, just find a way to just, like, have a moment of peace and, like, calm for yourself. And number three, like, find, like, really invest in the TV you're watching. Like, really, really find a lineup of shows. Like, what was your postpartum show the first time?

A (58:30)

Grace Night, which I've watched 50 times in a row. So this time I have to choose a different show, but I want it to be, like, something really good. But so I'm taking recommendations for postpartum shows. Something I can really get into that has a good storyline, that has multiple happy.

B (58:46)

You got. You gotta not watch sad stuff.

A (58:48)

So, like, I. I like Grey's Anatomy. I like the Desperate Housewives. Like, I like something with, like, lots of twists and turns. Like a little something, you know, My first.

B (58:59)

My first postpartum show was RuPaul's Drag Race. Just like, a lot of seasons. Like, a lot. My second was Gossip Girl, and my mom had never seen it, and she was with me, you know, 24 7. And it was hysterical. We finally, once we went back to Michigan, we had gotten through, like, season three, and she was calling me. She's like, why is Chuck? With, like, it was hysterical. Like, she had actually stayed with it. So right now I'm re watching Scandal. So if you want to pick up Scandal, I've never seen.

A (59:26)

Maybe that's my thing.

B (59:27)

Okay.

A (59:27)

Okay.

B (59:28)

That's your homework, so maybe that's. That's your homework. Okay, wait, I have a fourth thing. If you. Okay, and this is where, like, everyone just take a breath. If you hate breastfeeding, you don't have to do it. It's.

A (59:45)

If you hate it, I think you

B (59:46)

are so miserable that it is ruining your. Your life, you don't have to do it. There are a lot of people who are going to tell you, find a way to make it work. I am here to give you permission if you need one. If this is how I get canceled, I'm okay with that. But you just. There are things in life, your mental health being the biggest one, that are just more important than how you are feeding that baby.

A (60:13)

I didn't realize how much mental health would go into breastfeeding and pumping and feeding your baby. Until I was in it and before I. I probably silently judged and I was like, what do you mean just like, breastfeed? It's not that big of a deal. It's a little bit. And then I did it and I was like, oh, my nipples are bleeding at day three. And like, now they're cracked and, oh, I'm leaking And, oh, I, I'm sorry I'm gonna say this, but I was like, how do women get pregnant before their six week postpartum appointment? Like, I can't look at my husband for six months. Six months. Like, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna be leaking while I'm having sex.

B (60:54)

Well, and what you did, in my opinion, exclusively pumping is the hardest way to do it.

A (60:59)

So because I didn't get any of the emotional.

B (61:02)

It feels very either.

A (61:06)

I threw. There were two pumps. Rip to those pumps I threw at the wall.

B (61:10)

I understand.

A (61:11)

And, and so this. Maybe I'm. I. If I have like, if I want to like pump because I want like an extra bottle for like when I leave.

B (61:20)

Cool.

A (61:21)

But like, I'm not gonna. I cried the first time I ever gave my daughter formula.

B (61:26)

Yeah, I get it, I get it.

A (61:28)

Any mom was crying to me, I'd be like, just give them formula. It's really not that big of a deal.

B (61:32)

Isn't that crazy too, that we're like, what's the big deal? Just do it. But when it's you, it's so. It just, it's like we put so much weight on this thing. Like, we built it up in our minds. Like, like I didn't have it with formula and breastfeeding because, like, I knew I wasn't really going to be able to breastfeed. And so, like, I didn't have an emotional attachment to it, but like, I have an emotional attachment to a lot of other stuff that when, like it was the end, I like, lost my mind. Like, I don't know. Yeah, but, but if it was anybody else, I'd be like, who gives a shit? Just, it's fine. I, I recommend this to everyone. If you are someone who like, plans to formula feed in any capacity at all, whether it's combo feeding, exclusively formula feeding, like, just to have as an emergencies, whatever. My friend Mallory wrote a book called Bottle Service. It. She's the. She's at the formula mom on Instagram. Just, just. If you. Even if you're not really thinking about it right now, just give it a follow. Because in the middle of the night, if you're freaking out, it's just nice to have the resource because I think we're given a lot of. I don't know, there's just. Everybody has an opinion and about everything. And she's a really, really great resource of like, like, if it's in the middle of the night and you're like, it, I need to buy formula. I don't Know which one to find. She's a really good resource to just. It's like the, you know, ABCs of formula feeding. What type? How do you start? Which one do you start with? Just to. Just to have it. Are you gonna try to breastfeed with this one? That's a stupid question. I hate when people ask me that. So I'm sorry.

A (63:01)

I've already started getting colostrum and like, oh, that's good. I just turned 36 weeks and I'm like, oh. I feel. I also was. I had a great supply. Like, I was an over supplier with my daughter, and so I feel like I had all of, like, the, like, oh, this should work. And then she stopped latching at three months, and I'm like, well, there's not much I can do.

B (63:21)

Yeah.

A (63:22)

And then I had already had, like, didn't have the birth that I wanted, so I was like, super about making it to a year. And now this time I'm like, fuck that.

B (63:31)

But that actually is. That's very, very common, especially if your birth didn't totally go the way you want. It's like, we want to have control over something which is. Is very, very honorable. Like, I completely understand that mindset. And also, I understand the second time around being like, okay.

A (63:47)

And the. The week I stopped exclusively pumping, I will never rem. I will never forget how much of a. I was like, my hormones were all over the place, just, like, stopping, like, drying up. And then the next month, my husband, every single day was like, you seem so happy. Like, the hormone. Like, you seem. And I was like, like, yeah, because I'm not attached to a robot six times a day.

B (64:11)

It's like the autonomy you all of a sudden have, the freedom you all of a sudden have. But also, I have been told by many, many healthcare providers that the postpartum drop or like the. Or the. I'm sorry, the hormone drop and the hormone change when you're weaning is more intense than after delivery.

A (64:28)

See you next Tuesday.

B (64:30)

Like, yeah,

A (64:32)

I was horrible. I honestly, next time I, like, dry up my milk. I'm staying in a hotel for a week.

B (64:39)

I don't blame you, like, even a little bit. No, I'm serious. Like, even it. I'm telling you because I'd heard that from so many people. And then I finally, an ob GYN was like, no, the hormone crash when you're weaning is intense. And I'm like, okay, well, that's good to know.

A (64:53)

That's validating to hear.

B (64:56)

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So you know, you were not alone in that. And also, just like, the encouragement sucks. Like, it's over kind of fast, but, like, the drying out process is pretty mess.

A (65:07)

I will say with the. With pumping, that was one thing that I feel like was really easy to do, was like, I just like waited an extra hour or like, I would

B (65:15)

you just kind of slowly. Yeah.

A (65:17)

And I never felt like, super uncomfortable, so that was great.

B (65:19)

That's good. Okay.

A (65:21)

And then before we end the podcast, I have some rapid fire this or that, and they're like a doula themed.

B (65:27)

Fine. Okay, cool.

A (65:29)

Epidural or unmedicated?

B (65:31)

Oh, my God. Who cares? Who cares? If you want. I. Okay, so I had an epidural with both of. With both of mine. I. The first one, I waited a really, really long time to ask for it because I was just like, I'm gonna see, like, how long I can go. And it wasn't even like, I'm gonna try to be a hero thing. I was just prioritizing, snacking. Like, I knew I wasn't gonna be able to eat once they gave me the upper darl. And so I wanted to be able to eat as long as possible.

A (65:58)

Like food pain.

B (66:00)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was my driving force there. And then the second one, I kind of regret getting it because I was already. And I was already. By the time I even got the first one place, I was already at 8cm. And then that happened again. I was already at like probably 8 or 9 when I got the second one. And so now I'm like, I wish I would have just done it because I think the hard part was like, on its way to being over, but. And I even floated that once. I was like, I kind of want to have a third baby just to like, see if I can go unmedicated. And my husband was like, you're just competitive. Like, you don't want a third baby. You're just competitive.

A (66:36)

He's like, I'm gonna bring you back down to earth for a sec.

B (66:39)

He was like, no, we're not. We're not doing that. I'm sure you could do it. So, yeah, who, like, who cares? If you want it, get it. If you don't care if you want to try to go unmedicated, like, that's great. There was a really. Someone with a massive platform very recently tried to make the illusion or tried to make the connection correlation that epidurals can have an impact on postpartum depression. I want to make that it very clear. There is zero connection there Actually, if anything, the. The minimal data that does exist shows an opposite correlation where getting epidural might help postpartum depression or prevent it from happening. So the idea that getting an epidural then leads to postpartum depression is not fact, evidence based. That if you happen to see that, just brush it off.

A (67:28)

That's not C section. And I was very depressed, so

B (67:33)

no

A (67:33)

epidural, like, it's a spinal block is very different. Like, and I was still depressed.

B (67:37)

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, I just want to throw that out there if you happen to have seen that. But, yeah, epidural. No epidural, like, whatever you want to do, girlfriend.

A (67:47)

If I go unmedicated, just know that was not on purpose, okay? Just know that it was not my plan.

B (67:54)

That's the thing, like, in it. God, I. And I understand again, and I know I've already said this once in this conversation, like, we hold these. This moral value to so many of these decisions. And I am not one of those people who says, at the end of the day, you have a healthy baby. Like, that's all that matters. That's not all that matters. That is absolutely not all that matters. Because your experience throughout all of this, like, it's childbirth, it is the most transformational thing you will probably ever do in your life. How you look back on it matters. So I want everybody to hear that. That if anybody's ever said that to you, I'm sorry, because that's a really shitty thing to hear, because it's not all that matters. Like, you matter. Your experience, your lived experience, really, really matters. And, like, you can make, like, how whatever decision you decide to make or not make, like, it's just nobody else's business. It's nobody else's choice. If you want to go in and you're like, I want to get the epidural in the parking lot. That's awesome. If you are like, if. If you're like, I really want to see if I can do it. Like, that's so cool. And also if you. This is. This is a really good tip, because a lot of people are like, well, can't. Isn't it too late at some point? I have. I've been told by a lot of anesthesiologists, one of which is my neighbor, that as long as you can sit still, you can get it. So it's like, there's not, like a dilation point where it's too late or too early, whatever. Like, as long as you can sit still, sit still for the most part, you can probably still get it, but it's this being able to sit still, that's touch and go.

A (69:20)

I will be at the hospital. That's before you admit me. I would like the epidural, please.

B (69:27)

Checking it, like, on the phone in triage. Just be. But I'm not. Like, sometimes it can take a really long time. So if you do really want that when you get there, be like, I want an epidural. And that is, like, a totally in the line. Yeah, that's a totally reasonable thing to say at triage, please.

A (69:44)

Would you rather have morning sickness or really bad heartburn?

B (69:48)

Oh, heartburn for sure.

A (69:50)

Yeah. Morning sickness.

B (69:51)

Jesus Christ.

A (69:53)

Labor playlist or total silence Podcasts.

B (69:57)

I listen to podcasts the whole time.

A (69:59)

Really?

B (70:00)

Yeah, I. Yeah, I listen to, like, really, really probably, like, insane things to listen to during labor. I listen to, like. Like, I listened to, like, Supreme Court hearing. Like, it's stupid. It's like.

A (70:14)

Like, like murder podcast. Like, and he hit. He. He cut off her head and decapitated her and hit it in the park. And you're like, how. How many centimeters am I dilated?

B (70:24)

Yeah, I was listening to this. It was. I realized I was listening to this podcast about, like, the history of, like, certain Supreme Court decisions and how they, like, affect, you know, modern policy. And I was like, what? I'm like, what am I. What. What am I doing?

A (70:37)

This is boring.

B (70:37)

Yeah, I know. It was, like, in my ear. So I put on, like, you know, a pop culture, like, Bravo one. And so I don't know, maybe. Yeah, maybe don't just listen to anything. But, yeah, we have

A (70:49)

sleep when the baby sleeps or finally get things done.

B (70:54)

Oh, that's a good question. I think it just depends on the day. It depends on how tired you are. And also, like, who else is in your house.

A (71:02)

Yeah. Coaching your kids, sports team or sitting on the sidelines.

B (71:07)

Oh, sitting on the sidelines. I am not doing that.

A (71:10)

Birth plan or go with the flow

B (71:12)

birth plan for sure.

A (71:14)

A perfectly calm labor or a baby who sleeps anywhere.

B (71:23)

Okay. Given that everyone is healthy in the end, like, that you are physically, like, alive. You're, like, alive. Because sometimes, like, right now, that's, like, bare minimum. Right?

A (71:34)

Yeah.

B (71:36)

Which is really sad that there are a lot of women who, like, my birth plan is just to, like, live, which is like, how low? Like, how low can the bar. But, like, that sucks. That sucks. That. That is, like, how low can the bar be for us that we're like, if I lived, that'd be great.

A (71:53)

Like, I Just want to make it out on the other side.

B (71:56)

I know. Okay. Okay. Do I want. No, No. I think I would want a baby who. Who sleeps anywhere all the time. For sure.

A (72:02)

I think.

B (72:02)

Yeah, yeah, No, I can, like, I can get past, like, if I have, like, really bad tear, like, your vagina will heal all year.

A (72:09)

Oh, my God. That's the number one thing. Whenever I say I'm having a vbac, but, like, you're gonna be ruined both ways. I'm like, hey.

B (72:15)

Oh, my God. Like, ew, ew. I hate that.

A (72:21)

Like, honestly, like, you think. You think it's gonna ruin me? Like, fourth degree tear. Like, that would probably really suck, but, like, I'll come out on the other side.

B (72:32)

Oh, God, I hate that people say the craziest.

A (72:35)

No, literally, they say insane. Especially when you're pregnant. And I'm like, I don't want to hear about your negative birth experience.

B (72:42)

Oh, my. I know, I know. I hate that too. I hate that also. A lot of, like, a lot of birth people. Like, people, like. Yeah, a lot of, like, people in, like, the Birthings, but like, Doula Smith. Like, Like, a lot of people just, like, want to give you information. They want to just, like, word vomit things onto you. And like, sometimes we just don't need all of that.

A (73:00)

Like, I tried for a V back and my uterus ruptured and I'm like, that's great. Thank you for letting me know that.

B (73:07)

Like, okay. Like, you know, I'm sorry that happened to you. Hoping that mine goes a different way. Like, yeah, people, I don't know. And sometimes I think that it comes from a good place. Like, people just are, like, dying to share their experiences because it, like, helps them process, which is like. Like, that is one thing, but also I'm like, really pregnant and don't need to hear about it right now.

A (73:23)

So you're like, my uterus is probably at. At its rupturing point right now. So, like, can we not talk about.

B (73:28)

Yeah, we don't need to talk about yours.

A (73:31)

And then when. Where can the people find you on social media?

B (73:34)

Oh, I'm. It's Haley Pepper on everything. Instagram and TikTok and Threads. I put my most. Probably my spiciest things on threads if you want to hang out. I. People shit on threads. I do have. Sorry. I do have a substack. It's also. It's Haley Pepper on substack. I have a substack podcast that I. It's called Detox. It's supposed to be like, tongue in cheek of like we're detoxing from like the toxic world that wellness has become. And I have on authors, experts, doctors, some politicians and just talking about like women's health and how women's wellness has really been co opted by like

A (74:17)

everything,

B (74:18)

supplements, supplements and consumerism. And it's really shifted away from being about actually making women healthy and making us well and caring for us as people, not just as women and like figures in the world, but like as actual human beings. And so yeah, visit me on all that stuff. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun.

A (74:36)

Thank you for coming on. I'm also going to be texting you all of my photos questions like I hope you're ready for it because these last few weeks I'm like, like, it's go time.

B (74:46)

I know it is. You're so close to the end though. You're so close. Seriously, text me anyway, I'm telling you, the grosser the better. I have some crazy shit on my phone. So especially towards the end of like, you know, you know what I'm talking about.

A (74:59)

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. But thank you so much for coming on. And yeah, if you guys enjoyed, feel free to let us know. Give this podcast a five star rating and I'll see you next time day next Sunday. Yeah, that's when I record. Wow. Pregnancy Breaking. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.