← Sunday Sports Club with Allison Kuch
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- [00:00]
Kens Brooks
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
- [00:03]
Ali
What's up guys? Welcome back to Sunday Sports Club Podcast, a podcast all about sports. Today we have on Kens Brooks, who is an on air sports betting analyst for CBS Sports, who is so fun and fantastic and somebody who is amazing at explaining sports for the girls because she's a girl and she's in the sports world. Today she's giving us all the lore around March Madness. Welcome to to Sunday Sports Club Podcast. Ken's Brooks, I'm so excited to talk more with you, especially as a female in such a male dominated space. I know that we are making a move more towards it being female dominated, but I know so many women listen to this podcast as like a way to like learn more. And today I want to dive into March Madness because I know nothing about March Madness. I know absolutely nothing. But before we begin, why don't you give yourself a little introduction and tell kind of a quick background as to how you got where you're at today.
- [01:08]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, I'd love to. And the best part about March Madness and why I love doing things like this is because like, you don't have to know that much. And that is the beauty of this specific calendar event of the year. But yeah, this is basically what I do for a living, which is crazy to say and I'm so grateful to say that, but I graduated from the University of Georgia in 2023 and I had a bit of like a computer science meets f finance major. So I was a very data analytics person. And during my time at Georgia, about halfway through I was trying to get into the sports media space and I had some producers give me the advice of get into sports betting. There's not a lot of women in it. You're a data girl, you're a numbers girl. You know, you'll be able to pick it up. And true story, like, I literally every Sunday night would call my Uncle Mark from South Jersey, who was may or may not have been a bookie, and he would teach me how to bet. And for hours I'd sit in my college room with him. And then I finally turned that into an Instagram page with my friend from college that got me an internship at espn. And then I really became like the stats data betting girl. And that brought me to CBS Sports. And what I do is I represent the numbers crew, the coding crew. I'm like the, you know, casual face, less intimidating person you see on air, but my team's the one making the automated CBS Sports bracket when you go to fill out Your bracket and you just want it to do it for you. Like, that's my coding squad. So, you know, I play a little bit of both of just like, you know, 23 year old. Let me explain to my sorority sisters how this works. And I also go yell at middle aged men on television. So it's a very interesting Hannah Montana life going on here.
- [02:40]
Ali
Love the Hannah Montana reference. And in terms of like yelling at middle aged men, that's literally one of my favorite hobbies.
- [02:47]
Kens Brooks
Twitter. Twitter Ali. It's a special, special place.
- [02:51]
Ali
Oh my gosh. I can only imagine, like having to deal with like, comments and backlash and of men even just being like, oh, like, you don't deserve to be here. You don't belong here. Like, I'm sure you get some crazy comments. Do you wouldn't. Growing up, like, did you always know you wanted to get into not necessarily sports betting? I feel like that's a very niche, like, dream career. Did you ever know, like, when did you know that you wanted to get into this?
- [03:17]
Kens Brooks
I'll be honest, like, I wasn't completely sold on it. And that's why I didn't even major in journalism. I was like, I'll go get a solid degree in something different and I'll dabble in the sports media stuff kind of on the side. I'll do certificate degrees and clubs to really amp up that part of my resume. I always thought sideline reporter was, you know, that's the little girl dream job when you're looking on the tv. And then I realized, damn, that's a really long line. Like, I gotta go to like North Dakota, work local weekend anchor news. And that's. I'm like, how can I skip some steps here and find my own niche? And like, this was as, you know, TikTok coming about and everything. I'm like, there's got to be a, a different avenue here. And. And because I was a data person, the sports betting fit just worked so well. But yeah, it was not. Yeah. I did not grow up as a little girl dreaming to be a sports gambling expert here.
- [04:07]
Ali
Super funny. I'm like, yeah, sports betting, for me, I know like the general gist of sports betting and like fantasy. You would put fantasy football in the sports betting category?
- [04:18]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, yeah. Very intertwined.
- [04:20]
Ali
So being a woman, a woman in sports, more specifically, sports broadcasting and being in this space, what is your perspective of like, women being in the space and men saying that they don't have a place and trying to like, change that mold?
- [04:36]
Kens Brooks
I think there are certain places that Women absolutely can belong. Like, what's something for me? I'll never try to break down the X's and O's and refer to my time as an NFL vet or anything like that. What I bring to the table is something I know. Actually, those guys don't bring to the table. Like, they don't know my numbers and the stats the way I do. And I think sports betting and sports analytics in general for me was a way to feel confident in having a seat at the table. And I know it's a seat at the table that only I can speak for. Like, I speak for our CBS model, you know, and our guys who bring so much to the table in other ways, and our ex athletes that I sit next to every day. It's the blend that's so great. And there's so many women in at least the data analytics space or even in the fantasy space or betting in general that, you know, we're not here telling you that we know more than anybody. We're just here to compliment a conversation that's already happening for sure.
- [05:29]
Ali
And it's funny that you say that like, you're not going to refer to your time as like, a vet, like on an NFL team or in the NBA. It's crazy because my husband is actually. He's going to be on Good Morning Football and he's like, yeah, so he's really excited about that, but he's been, like, studying all of, like, the free agency moves currently happening in the NFL and that the draft is coming up and this and that. And he was talking last night about going on Good Morning Football. But some of these people have never played football. And it's way more common than I think people are led, like, led to believers, even GMs, head coaches in the NFL. Some of them have never played football. Like, I'm talking like jv, like third grade. Like, some of them have never played football, but they're able to be a coach. So I feel like, like, it the space of a woman, like, can't be in the sports world. They can't be commentators. They don't know more. They can't be a coach. I'm like, why?
- [06:31]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, like, go talk to 5, 8 Howie who's running the entire Eagles, like, organization and kicking butt, doing it. It's like, I mean, if we want to play that battle, we can play that battle with a lot of people in the space. But yeah, I mean, I think the blend of all of it is so necessary. Like, you'll have great athletes that aren't awesome at articulating that. Or you'll have, you know, journalists who are so, so awesome at writing and Twitter and putting things in niche, you know, outlooks, but they don't love to be on air. And it's like, it's just, you need someone who, who can articulate on air and wants to be in the entertainment business on top of knowing a lot of that stuff. So yeah, it's a very interesting conversation.
- [07:09]
Ali
And so you being in this space and working in the sports world, do you have to know everything about all sports? Because I was watching one of your latest TikToks about March Madness and then going into the Masters. Like, do you know like what's happening in golf? What's happening in tennis? What?
- [07:28]
Kens Brooks
Like I, I pick my battle so that the thing with sports betting specifically is you are expected to be a year round analyst essentially. Like you'll have your football analysts who are ex players and you'll have your basketball analyst. But I, I've found myself in the unfortunate niche of being a, a all year round team player here. What I do specifically mostly is NFL, NBA, college basketball and college football. I, I get, I dabble in the WNBA as well. But when I, you know, when I go on and have my backbone and really, really feel passionate, it's typically in those. I haven't gotten into hockey too much, which I know is a space I should get into. But at some point like you're mentioning, like you got to go quality over quantity here. So you know, the farther I get into my career, ideally I'd pick a lane and I can really hone in on that lane and be the best I can be in one specific sport. But for now, as I'm getting started, it's, it's very marketable to be able to do a couple different things.
- [08:25]
Ali
It's a talent as well. I'm like, my husband has note cards just trying to memorize every head coach in the NFL because it changes all the time. Like there are constant changes in the sports world, not only in football, but like in every sport. There is so much that's happening. Injuries, changes, especially when a team cleans their front office. You're like, okay, so we're starting from scratch. So I can only imagine trying to know everything about every sport.
- [08:53]
Kens Brooks
So the transfer portal now too is an absolute nightmare for a team like me where we have every player coded into a team and they churn out projections and scores and now it's like every summer or completely rewiping everything clean and re entering an entire new roster, and you're like, you want to. Your brain wants to explode. Just trying to regroup from the last season.
- [09:14]
Ali
I didn't even think about how Nil and the transfer portal, like, all go into play and affect this as well.
- [09:21]
Kens Brooks
Yes. Just another. Another step in the equation.
- [09:25]
Ali
Ali, I know that there's, like, women and girls listening to this probably, like, okay, so you're telling me it's, like, a lot to learn, and here I am trying to learn, but I feel like once you get the hang of it, there are things like you can pick your battles, right? Like, you can pick what you're interested in. And something I really want to get into is March Madness, because I feel like I hear everybody talking about how much fun it is and filling out your bracket. I've never filled out a March. This is my first year. Okay, so what are the important date, like? Give me an overall gist.
- [09:57]
Kens Brooks
Mm.
- [09:58]
Ali
As if you're telling me I know nothing about March Madness.
- [10:01]
Kens Brooks
Okay, this is perfect. This is what you need to hear. I can't believe this is your first March Madness bracket ever. I feel so honored to maybe play a role in how this is going to go down. So basically, this is. This is playoffs. We're getting the national championship, and we get 64 teams, right? 64 teams from across college basketball. Now, half of those teams that get picked around 31. Around. Yeah, around 31 teams. They will be picked by winning their conference tournament. So right now, we're in the week of conference tournaments are happening. Teams will win their conference tournament champions championship. So that will be around half the teams. The other half of the teams will be biting their nails on selection Sunday, hoping that the committee picks them. So March Madness is made up of. Think of the Olympics, where it's like you'll have smaller countries who clearly wouldn't be able to compete with China or USA or whatever, but they're the best in their country, and they're going to come to the Olympics. They're going to get a spot and be able to represent themselves. So no matter how small your conference is, if you're winning it, you're getting a bid. And then the rest, you know, 37 other teams will be. Are you around the top 64 best teams in the country? So that's kind of how we. How we get here. So you get 68 teams is what is decided on selection Sunday. Then we shave from 68 to 64 in what's called a play in tournament. So there's like eight teams that have to Play like an extra Hunger Games to try to just shut each other off. And that's how we get from 68 to 64. Then we start round one. So that's by. By round one, which I believe is Thursday the 20th. That's when you want to have your bracket full. So you're going to get a seeding. You're going to have four regions. You'll have one through six, 16 seeds in each region. Region number one, you know, that's the best team in the region. Sixteen, that's the, for lack of better word, worst team in the region. And then your goal is to make it out of your region and land yourself in the final four, represent your region, go to the national championship, and you win from there. With all that said, it's called March Madness because you have so many upsets happening. 15 seeds will be 2 seeds, 11 seeds all the time, beat 6 seeds. So when I say you have just as good of a chance as an awesome bracket as me, who done this and studies it, I. I mean that. Which is the most beautiful part about this whole thing.
- [12:20]
Ali
So it's beautiful, but it's also, like, stressful. Like, if you want a team, like, upsets are very common.
- [12:26]
Kens Brooks
Totally, totally. Especially in men's, you have, I mean, a lot. Like, if you were to fill out a bracket, you know, a couple things I would tell you is you have to pick some 11 seeds to beat six seeds. You have to pick some nine seeds to not go very far. There's always the number one overall seed. So you'll have. You'll have four number one seeds in each region, but you'll have that number one overall, big, pretty team that we praise on selection Sunday. And they actually honestly haven't been winning that often the last 10 years. Like outside of last year when it was Yukon, they're kind of choking. So a number one seed overall, like in one of the regions. Sure. But that number, number one tippy top a lot of times falls short of expectations.
- [13:06]
Ali
So how common is it for an underdog to win?
- [13:10]
Kens Brooks
Very common. So you'll have, like, when you. In the first round, you'll have a one playing a 16. Okay, those are very, very unlikely. It's happened twice in history, I'm pretty sure. But as you get, as the talent level gets smaller and smaller, when you have, you know, an eight playing in nine, like, those are essentially the same level team. So those are where you're definitely want to pick some upsets. You know, the closer, the smaller the gap gets. Obviously, you'll See a lot more upsets, but you'll see a lot of these double digit seeds, like 10, 11 seeds make it to the final four. It's about teams getting hot sometimes it's just about experience. A lot with nil and transfer portal is guys like to change, guys like to leave for the league. They change teams because they didn't win last year and they don't have that chemistry when you have, you know, five guys that probably aren't going to league, they're probably going to sell insurance after this. But they've played together for so long and like this is their thing and you can't compete with that sometimes.
- [14:04]
Ali
So how many teams start out in March Madness?
- [14:09]
Kens Brooks
64 will play in round one. But we'll have that little shedding period called the play in tournament after selection Sunday where we go from the 68 to the 64. Those eight teams have to refight for them lives to prove that they belong.
- [14:24]
Ali
I feel like I'm fighting for my life because everything you just said kind of sounds like a different language. But from what you're telling me is like filling out a bracket should be like the fun part. It should be like you can kind of just play around with it, right?
- [14:37]
Kens Brooks
Totally. Like my mom who picks based off mascot and jersey color, like truly does just as well. No, you, like, honestly, you should. I mean there's definitely like some trends to know. Like you don't want to, I don't think you should take the number one overall seed to, to win. It's just a little too obvious and it honest, quite frankly doesn't happen as often as you think. But other than that, like it is a vibes game. And this is why women do so well in their March Madness brackets because we're just about the vibes sometimes and like we have that gut intuition going on.
- [15:07]
Ali
Yeah, I'm just gonna be rooting based off of jersey color and I'm okay with that. Okay. I'm, I'm gonna start to dabble. I'm gonna start to dribble into March.
- [15:18]
Kens Brooks
And you'll fall in love with some random characters along the way that have some like Cinderella story that you're like, oh yeah, this is my team now. I'm adopting this team. It happened last year. It always happens.
- [15:29]
Ali
My favorite part of like when sport I feel like March Madness. I would compare that to like playoffs in the NFL. Totally.
- [15:37]
Kens Brooks
It's just like think about the NFL playoffs just condensed into a literally like four week marathon where it's just every day it's Just noon to midnight games for those first two rounds because you're shedding from 64 to 32. And then you get Sweet 16, Elite 8 Final 4 National champion.
- [15:57]
Ali
I like that they put names to them because I can remember elite8. I can remember a Final Four. Like I can remember those things. Fun.
- [16:03]
Kens Brooks
There's fun lingo and they call it like dancing when you're, you know, we're dancing in March is when you're, you're in the playoffs with your team. Like it's just such a wholesome little.
- [16:12]
Ali
March game if you guys didn't know. It's Women's History Month and one thing I really like to do during this time is buying for me, but also to buy from women owned brands. Macy's has so many awesome brands, many who I'm already obsessed with. So like it also couldn't be easier to support them. One of my favorite products is the Sunday Riley CEO Glow Face Oil Forever. So what's a better time to buy it than now? And I might as well stock up because again, we're celebrating women. So celebrate woman. Buy from woman owned businesses and also treat myself. I'm also in the need of a new tote. I've been traveling, traveling so often lately and I need a cute bag to put my computer in because I'm a woman boss, which is crazy. I guess I'm a woman don't business. Well, I'm a woman owned podcast. I'm a woman podcast. But I love that Macy's is doing their due diligence and supporting Women's History Month. You can shop so many women owned and founded brands from Macy's. Like Sunday Riley Anastasia, Beverly Hills Fashion Fair, Patricia Nash and Katy Perry too. Can't forget Katy Perry. Macy's is also partnering with Girls Inc. To help girls grow through mentorship. And I personally love that they make it easy to donate with either an in store roundup or an online donation. And I think it's a great and easy way to make a huge difference. The event dates at Macy's are March 1st through March 31st. Again, women's history Month, my favorite month. So shop and support Macy's.com purpose. Is it just me or are you guys also laying in bed with your significant other arguing over what you want to watch, Choosing something, watching a trailer? No. And something that is very interesting to me is that I learned more people spend figuring out what to watch than actually doing the watching. Like 64 hours. So thankfully we have streamline. Streamline cuts that in half if not more I have personally been loving Streamline. It organizes and prioritizes all of my favorite shows and sports all in one place. Streamline is great for sports fans, making it easy to find where and when your favorite teams are playing. The scheduling feature eliminates the frustration of searching across multiple sports channels and apps. You guys, there are so many channels. There are so many apps. I I've mentioned it before, but I may or may not have missed the first few minutes of my husband's football games because again, so many channels, so many apps. So thank you Streamline for helping us out with this very interesting problem. With Streamline, you and your friends can connect, track and chat about what you're watching, what you loved, what you hated, and also what you can't wait to see so that next time you sit down on the couch, you don't have to argue about what to watch. You know what you're going to watch and you can even create a set playlist like Best Sports Shows or My Favorite Comedies. And it all has it all in one place. So download Streamline now and spend less time searching and more time watching. And also what everyone's watching all in one place. Streamline is a free app to download and use, so be sure to check out Streamline. Watch Sunday to download Streamline today and follow me Sunday Sports Club Podcast available in the Apple App Store Google Android App Coming Soon Are you looking for a partner in wedding planning? No, I'm not talking about your husband. I'm talking about the Knot, who is here to help you plan your future wedding. I feel like we've all been gathering Inspo for, I mean I personally have for as long as I can remember. Like I swear I was 12 like jumping on creating my wedding Inspo board. And spoiler alert, it looked Nothing like my 12 year old inspo board. But scoring expert advice to finding your venue and figuring out your budget is so important. And the Knot will help you connect you to all the people, places and tools that you need. 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So thank God for the Knot and also easy RSVPing to provide seamless registry shopping all in one place. And also the Knot has the most venues and vendors across any wedding site in any location. So I highly recommend the Knot to help you plan your big day. Let the Knot connect you to all people, places and tools you need to help bring your wedding to life. Get started@the Knot.com audio t h e k n o t.com a u d I o let the Knot be your partner in all things wedding planning. Get started at the Knot.com audio T-H-E k n o t.com a u d I O It's actually funny that you start to talk about the lingo because I have some terms that are centered around March Madness that hopefully, hopefully you can explain for me and the other women listening to this podcast.
- [22:02]
Kens Brooks
Perfect.
- [22:02]
Ali
The Big Dance.
- [22:04]
Kens Brooks
That is March, Matt. That is the round.
- [22:08]
Ali
March Madness is the Big Dance.
- [22:09]
Kens Brooks
Yes. If you. Your name's called on Selection Sunday, you're dancing. You're in the Big Dance. Okay, it sounds sillier now that I say it.
- [22:19]
Ali
I'm like the Big Dance. I'm like picturing like Animal Planet, so. Please, it's not that. What is Cinderella?
- [22:29]
Kens Brooks
Cinderella are the teams that you didn't expect to go far and they just start knocking off these awesome teams. So maybe they're like a 9 seed, 10 seed, 11 seed, and they start knocking off number one, two, three, and they find themselves in like the Sweet Sixteen or Elite. So Cinderella is, you know, your hidden gem that.
- [22:49]
Ali
So this is very, like, this is very common.
- [22:52]
Kens Brooks
Yeah. Every year there's like. So last year I'm gonna remember what seed they were. This Oakland basketball. Oakland is a college and obviously you wouldn't know too much about them, but they must. They were probably like a 15 seed or something. 14, 15, something crazy. Never heard of the players. They got like no nil money again. A bunch, respectfully, a bunch of guys are probably gonna end up selling insurance after this, not going to the league. They started kicking butt and like get winning round after round and knocking off these teams that people thought were going to win the national championship. And you just have this group of, like, scrawny guys that are just like, shooting well from three and like, ruining your dreams and everything you thought you were going to have. And it's. You feel so. I'm such an empath. And it's so funny that I work in sports because I can't help but be crushed for a lot of these guys. Now that they're making millions, I feel a little less bad. But, like, it still crushes me when I see some of these guys who really thought they were going far just get smoked by some, like, random small school.
- [23:54]
Ali
Oh, no, honestly, it's my favorite. It's my favorite is when there is an upset and I feel like it's even more so these small schools, you start to hear, like, stories about some of the players. And then you're like, wait, like, this is my favorite team now. Like, yes, there's this guy I was rooting for. Like, I want this small school to win.
- [24:13]
Kens Brooks
There's this school, Wofford, and they're going to be a 15 seed, meaning it's going to be a miracle if they make it past the first round. But for those listening who don't have a team or won an underdog, they have a guy who was so bad at shooting free throws that he does it underhand now. Like, literally, like underhand. And then he wasn't even making them that well. That way they start bank shock, bank, bank shot, bank shotting them in like.
- [24:39]
Ali
Your guess is as good as mine.
- [24:41]
Kens Brooks
It was. It's the most phenomenal thing you've ever seen. He's like this six, seven, big guy. He just looks like a character. And he's out there with all these guys just underhand throwing the way, like me or you would. It's fascinating. And he's. He's going to be dancing. And I give it to him.
- [24:56]
Ali
Dancing. Okay, wait, what. So what college is that?
- [24:59]
Kens Brooks
Wofford.
- [25:00]
Ali
Wofford. Okay, girlies, we're rooting for Wofford as the underdog.
- [25:04]
Kens Brooks
Yes.
- [25:05]
Ali
Next term. Bubble.
- [25:08]
Kens Brooks
So there's some teams that are just outside that top 64, top 68 teams. Like, if you're on the bubble, some weeks you're projected to make the tournament. Some weeks you're projected out like your game to game is. You're. You're on the bubble of. Of making the whole tournament.
- [25:26]
Ali
Okay. Bracket buster.
- [25:30]
Kens Brooks
This is funny you mentioned that because we had a very heated debate at work. Apparently it can mean both. It can either mean your Cinderella Team like a Cinderella team, busted your bracket because you had this number one seed making it all the way the final four. And this little underdog Cinderella came in, beat them, busted that whole region of your bracket. In my brain, the bracket buster is that top dog team that you had going all the way and they lose and they bust your bracket because that just wipes out the whole, you know, half of the bracket that you had. So it's just a team that really screwed up what you had going on on your paper.
- [26:06]
Ali
Love that. I love a good bracket buster.
- [26:09]
Kens Brooks
Yes.
- [26:09]
Ali
And then is bubble team the same as bubble?
- [26:13]
Kens Brooks
Yeah. So your bubble teams are the ones teetering.
- [26:16]
Ali
Okay. So as somebody who knows a lot about March Madness, who is your top men's and women's team going in? Can you reveal who you're like is going far in your bracket?
- [26:29]
Kens Brooks
Who I think is the best isn't always the same as who I think will win. Like Auburn men's basketball is going to go down like in history, hopefully if they make it far there. This team is insane. They've been insane all year. Them and Duke have really been the top of the totem pole this year. The SEC in general, which historically men's basketball, it's all about the Big East. It's like Yukons, which is probably what you would recognize. And then the Big 12.
- [26:55]
Ali
Is Villanova a thing. Yeah.
- [26:57]
Kens Brooks
Yeah. So yes, that was another Big east. Like the Big East. It was like, you know, football was sec, Big Ten, Big east was like college basketball. The SEC this year for some reason just rocks like top to bottom. Like they have so many teams that are going to make the tournament, which is really exciting, Auburn being at the top of that. And then Duke is another great team. But the issue is you have these teams with these great records and you're like, well, what's your regular season schedule? Are you playing high competition? SEC is because they all rock. You can't say the same for these teams. So it'll be interesting to see in March once they see the big guns, how they perform and some of them could be great. The same for the women's side with the women's Yukon team with Paige Beckers, who I'm sure you've seen the blonde. Yeah. Awesome and hilarious. They're another team that's dominating, but they're dominating in a very non competitive conference right now. So you're like, we've seen it once. They played South Carolina once and beat them. But we won't really know until. Until the tournament starts to happen. But I'd say your top women's teams are going to be UConn, South Carolina. They won last year and the year before. They've won three of the last four years. Don Staley, like, they're just an absolute machine. They're like the Chiefs. If the Chiefs have won the super bowl again this year, you're like, God damn, you guys just keep doing it, and you're just a machine. Those are two really awesome teams. You have USC and ucla, who just kind of took over the Big Ten. They're really competitive. They have a lot of tension, a lot of rivalries. So that's very exciting, too. I'd say one of those four teams are probably most likely to take it.
- [28:33]
Ali
It's interesting you reference, like, strength of schedule. That's what I feel like they call it in the NFL, strength of schedule. Like, if an NFL team has a really easy schedule, it's really easy for them to get to. I mean, it also goes back to, like, what division are they in, what confidence are they in? But it is really interesting to hear that it also kind of plays into it for basketball. But I feel like the way that basketball sets apart, especially because of March Madness, because it's such a long. Like, there are how many games to get to the final.
- [29:07]
Kens Brooks
You win round one, round two, sweet 16, final four national championship. Yeah. So it's a. I mean, it's decent amount there with five, and. And sometimes it depends, and this happens with any sport. But what ends up being your path? You know, some of these one seeds will be dealt a lot easier hand than the other one seeds. Like maybe your bracket, your region of the bracket just happens to have more favorable teams for you specifically, maybe your team has a great strength. That happens to be this team's weakness. So that's why you see 3 seeds, 4 seeds, 5 seeds so often end up, you know, in Final Four, in Texas, which will be this year, because sometimes they're just given, for their. For their personal reasons, a good hand.
- [29:53]
Ali
So then in terms, we know there. There are teams that are predicted to come out on top or at least make it to Final Four. Are there teams that are going to be fun to watch? Like, what are some fun underdogs to root for or teams that just have really good stories behind them?
- [30:11]
Kens Brooks
There's a few. I think there's some teams with some, like, awesome, flashy offense which just is entertaining to anybody. Alabama's certainly one of them. Now, they're not an underdog by any means, but they just play at a high Pace. They're launching three pointers. Like, that's just. A casual fan will really enjoy to watch that game. There's other great teams like Tennessee who are just so defense focused. That's just slow. I mean, you can think of this with the NFL too. You're just like, oh, my God. Like, this is just slow, methodical game. St. John's is a team that. It's America's team right now. It's like, think the Lions of college basketball, which is like blue collar, you know, they weren't supposed to be here. The nostalgia is crazy. They were great in the 80s and now all those alumni are like dads and they're back in the city and their team rocks again. And Rick Pitino is the coach who's this, like, nostalgic, awesome head coach that is, I'd say, like America's team right now. Like, people are loving their story and they're good, but they're a team again playing in a conference that we don't know what's coming in March. And they are a team that they'll tell quantitative model data people like myself who thinks they're maybe not that good. They'll say, like, sit down and shut up. Like, we have the vibes. And that happens in March. And I respect them for it if they go far. But that is a very, very fun team to watch and that's a very publicly covered team this year. Yeah.
- [31:32]
Ali
Okay. Because I grew up in Detroit, so I'm a Lions fan. And so I'm going to have to root for them because I like that, like their motto. I like that kind of, like, culture. So they will be on my bracket and they will be going far.
- [31:50]
Kens Brooks
Yes, they're a team. People have going far. Another team I like is Maryland. And then they've been decent before, but this year specifically, people call them the Crab Five instead of the Fab Five for Maryland. But they have. It's like a bunch of older guys who have been there and then like one awesome freshman who should be a first round pick in the draft. So it's like this great complement of. We have our little superstar, then the rest of us are so solid and we bring the experience. And I think that's a very underrated team if you want to pick an underrated guy to go far in your brackets. I think Maryland's a great team. Clemson's a great team. Michigan State's a great team. Just those, like, middle of the pack guys, you know.
- [32:27]
Ali
Yeah, yeah. I was there when they were, like, really good. I don't know how they are now.
- [32:31]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, well, so Tom Izzo is the head coach and the whole spiel is Tom Izzo in March. Like, screw the regular season record. That guy knows how to win basketball games in March. And sometimes that's. I mean, that's what people pay coaches for is how do we win in March? It's pretty funny.
- [32:46]
Ali
And then, because again, I don't know much about basketball slash March Madness, my producer wanted me to ask, are there any mascots do you think people are going to fall in love with this year? Is that a thing?
- [32:57]
Kens Brooks
Oh, well, there's always some random, like.
- [33:02]
Ali
Random story that people like and see.
- [33:05]
Kens Brooks
What Wofford's mascot is. I bet it could be something funny.
- [33:09]
Ali
My favorite of the mascots that are, like, very dressed up, very overdone. Like, I feel like there's like a mascot that's a minor. Where.
- [33:18]
Kens Brooks
Wait, where. Hold on. Wofford is the fearless leader of the Terriers. He's a. He's a Boston Terrier named Boss.
- [33:26]
Ali
Like an actual. Like a Boston Terrier.
- [33:28]
Kens Brooks
Yes. It's. Yeah.
- [33:30]
Ali
Watford has surprises I feel like that we don't know about.
- [33:33]
Kens Brooks
They lose in the first round, which, like, is more than likely. I'll be crushed. I'm not gonna lie.
- [33:38]
Ali
I like their story.
- [33:40]
Kens Brooks
There are the. Let me see what Drake's mascot is. Drake. Oh, another dog, Spike. Love that bulldog. Drake Hat also has some guys that are like, these smaller schools are what are so funny. The non Power 4, Power 4 conferences are SEC, Big 10, Big 12, ECC. Like those ones with a lot of money and, you know, the big football programs. But the smaller mid majors are. What they're called, are the guys that sometimes shine in college basketball. But Drake has a guy named Mitch Mascari, who. He was a D2 player. He followed his coach to Drake. He was about to literally go be like a finance bro in the real world. I was like, ah, I'll give it another shot. And now he's like leading this 30 and 3 Drake team to March and they're. It's just like those types of stories to me you can't make up. Like, these aren't guys who are here for the nil or anything. Like, they're literally just going through college solid basketball players and they become like these celebrity superheroes for four weeks of the year.
- [34:37]
Ali
Such a fan. Okay, well, I'm gonna be rooting for. I need to. I need to come out with a list of people I'm rooting for. This March Madness, which is a fun Thing, though, because I feel like having a lot of people that you're rooting for keeps you entertained. It keeps you intrigued, it keeps you watching. And so I just need to make, like a cheat sheet.
- [34:53]
Kens Brooks
Yeah. Pick, like, pick from each region. I'd say pick like a hyper fixation team from each. From each month.
- [35:01]
Ali
Hopefully they go far. I'm like, I'm going to help them manifest. I'm going to pull out my crystals. This is what men can't do. They can't manifest. They can't pull out crystals.
- [35:09]
Kens Brooks
When I tell you March Madness is for the girls, I truly mean like, this. This is a vibes game. This is a vibes fill out of a bracket. That is all this is. And that's why we succeed.
- [35:20]
Ali
I'm gonna get behind that. So do you. Are there any superstitions that you've heard of players having, especially heading into March Madness?
- [35:28]
Kens Brooks
Oh, there's been. I mean, there's some, like, gross ones, like wearing the same undershirt or underwear or any of the above. I'll be honest. Most of that stuff typically stays pretty. Pretty in the locker room, I remember. But some of them just have funny hobbies. Like there's this one NC State guy for the star. NC State had no business making the final four. It was so awesome for them. They've never done anything like that in recent history. And the guy he has now. I'm blanking on. He has vending machines. Like, he owns multiple vending machines? No, like, as a business. As a business. My guy is playing on national television, the final four inside, hustling vending machines.
- [36:13]
Ali
I've heard. I'm on that side of TikTok, and I will say that sounds like the best side hustle ever. And I've heard people making a lot of money doing that.
- [36:21]
Kens Brooks
I've seen, yeah, I've seen TikToks of like, Let me count out my. My day of the vending machine. And I'm like, oh, suddenly I'm interested in that.
- [36:29]
Ali
I'm like, if that player is listening, he should, like, create a tik tok about that. Is he still playing?
- [36:35]
Kens Brooks
No, I don't think so.
- [36:37]
Ali
Okay, well, another should. Should pick up that hobby.
- [36:42]
Kens Brooks
And then like now with nil, it's like, I bet someone's picking him up. Like some vending machine company is like, we have a vision here. And he's probably like, okay, isn't that so cool?
- [36:51]
Ali
I feel like, because my husband got out, I think it was the year before, right after or he wasn't in it, he didn't get nil, and now he's able to like go back and like claim nil. But I think it was like 300, which, like, money's money, but I'm like, okay, wow.
- [37:09]
Kens Brooks
I can't believe they opened that up. Even open that door. I mean, respect, I guess, but that's almost a slap in the face when it's like nothing.
- [37:17]
Ali
No, it is a slap in the face because he was like, okay, maybe it's gonna be like a thousand dollars or two. No, it's like 300. And he's like, okay, I shouldn't have even called because I guess they make it such a, like rat race to try and like find a point of contact, get your like, identification number or something. Then you have to go and apply and then you get it and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. But I feel like nil is playing such a. It's so interesting how much of an impact it has in sports today. Like, it impacts so much, especially the transfer portal, right?
- [37:50]
Kens Brooks
It's. It's a different game than it was. You'll have guys who we thought maybe would go to the NFL draft and be a second third round pick, but they decide I'll make more money in nil if I say an extra year and go somewhere else. Carson Beck, who was the Georgia quarterback's a great example of that. You know, he gets injured, he knows that he falls in the draft. He knows what rookie quarterbacks make and he knows what he can make being on a two time national championship roster and going to Miami. And going to Miami and I owe money. And it's like the fact that that's even an option to consider in your head and great for them, it's just like, oh my. Like this is. It's becoming a version of professional sports. The transfer portal is essentially, almost feels like free agency in, in the NBA or in the NFL.
- [38:36]
Ali
No, I. And that's the craziest part is I feel like now people are becoming more aware of like, rates of even some of these players going through nil. So when a player is like, oh, actually I think I would make more money not going to the draft right now or like staying another year in college. It's insane to think about because the NFL, it's like, you think it can't get higher and then a guy's like, oh, no, nil. In college, I'm thriving.
- [39:04]
Kens Brooks
I think what, what bums me out the most that like, really affects the game. What the transfer portal is the need for instant gratification. And if you don't make it deep in the playoffs, like the one year you're there, you're out, and it's like, wash, rinse, repeat, new roster. It's like, how do you build a championship roster if you're turning it over every year and nobody's played together? Like, that's where it's like. I feel like it's directly affecting the game. And it's a bummer as a viewer to see these teams and these guys give up so quickly after you took a building year. Like, building years are, are a thing that need to happen to, to get to a high level. So that's. I will never be upset for these players getting money. It's more the the transfer portal is a little bit of a shame.
- [39:50]
Ali
My, my husband has very like, particular opinions when it comes to the transfer portal because I feel like it even in the NFL, you can't just decide you want to give up on your team and leave, right? So it's so interesting that it doesn't really pertain to college, which I feel like is a different conversation in and of itself. One of my 2025 goals is focusing on improving my gut health because I'm a stomach issues girly, like, my tummy hurts. But one thing I've been doing over the past year is incorporating Rituals Symbiotic, which is a 3 in 1 supplement, clinically studied pre, pro and postbiotics to support a balanced gut microbiome with daily use. And I have to say, it has actually been helping. Like, it's been doing all the things that it said it would do. And as somebody who is traveling a ton, I'm always eating foods that my stomach doesn't necessarily agree with and I feel like just kind of putting my digestive tract into overdrive. The symbiotic has been such a game changer. 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- [47:08]
Kens Brooks
You have your classic rivalries, which honestly, a lot of them aren't the same. Like Duke, UNC has always been massive. UNC is certainly not the caliber of Duke this year. SEC has really become a big battle of Alabama, Tennessee, Auburn, those guys just constantly eating up on each other. Women's it's been South Carolina's world a little bit, and we're just living in it because especially now without Caitlin Clark, that Iowa situation isn't the same, that LSU situation. Those girls are on the league now as well. I'd say that usc, ucla, women's rivalry is pretty awesome, and they're both that good. Like, when you have the rivalry and those teams are, you know, every game you're trading off, that's really exciting. So it'd be really cool to see them play each other again. And I think that Paige Becker's versus the world, like, if you get her versus South Carolina again, that could be a really good one.
- [47:59]
Ali
And I know we just kind of briefly touched on it. But, like, how is Nil impacting March Madness?
- [48:07]
Kens Brooks
It's tough. I've. I've seen some examples and some positive examples of it, too. You'll have guys who maybe have been hurt through most of the season and they're cleared to play, you know, the last three weeks of the season and go into March Madness. But they're thinking to themselves, I could redshirt and get a full extra year of nil. Why would I? And you're seeing some positive examples of that. Florida has a guy who literally, his bone came out of his knee last year, goes, you know, through rehab, all these things, and he gets clear with two weeks left of the season and he's like, I want to be a part of this team. We have a championship chance this year and I want to Be in on it. And he's kind of throwing away his. And he's not going to the league. You know what I mean? So it's like these guys that the NIL money, this is it, really. And. And it's a business now, and it's, like, crazy to say, but, you know, sometimes they treat it like a business and have to know that their body is important to the longevity of making money in nil.
- [49:01]
Ali
So. Interesting. Okay. And then I have some very specific questions that I'm personally curious. Curious about. So I'm interested to know this is more about, like, your personal. Not your personal life, but, like, your, like, day to day. How many days are you going into the office? How early are you waking up? Like, what is your day to day look like?
- [49:22]
Kens Brooks
It goes season by season, so it'll be like seasons of my life. I am just in it. And, like, I'm. Football season, for me is some version of seven days a week now. It's. It's hard to. It's hard to quantify, like, what is work brain and what is not work brain, because when I'm not at work, I'm still on Twitter and I still have to be catching up. And I know, I know it sounds like, like, cry me a river, but it's like I'm checking scores, and the game's so until 11pm so the last thing I'm seeing on my phone before I go to bed, I'm checking on the player props and the bets I gave out. And it's like, that's technically, I'm not at the office, but it's like, it's things my brain wouldn't be doing if I didn't just tell America how to spend their money on this football game. So I'd say college, you know, NFL.
- [50:05]
Ali
America's like, I hope you're doing your due diligence.
- [50:07]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, literally. But then the beauty of it, it's like, it's so worth it because literally, the super bowl happened, and I was like, I'm out. This is the month of Ken's. From the minute the super bowl ends to about March 1, when college basketball really starts, the conversations start happening. I went to Napa. I went to visit my college friends. I've been golfing. I've been like. I'm like. Then I. I promise, guys, I come back March 1st, and I'm dialed. Dialed in. So now, this time of year, which we're in right now, will be knocked. That's until April 7, when the national championship's over. And Then I'll chill the hell out again. And then NBA finals will start and that will finish. And then it's like summer of Ken's again. So it's very hard to answer, but it's seasons. It's seasons of my life. But a lot of it's later. Like, I don't. My first meeting of the day is at 11 because I do a show that's 6 to 7 up until tip off. So, you know when you're working in sports, I forgot my. My younger brain didn't put it together that sports happen on weekends and they happen at night. So what were you doing?
- [51:10]
Ali
Yeah, you're like, so I'm busy weekends, busy evenings, and I'm a FOMO girl.
- [51:15]
Kens Brooks
I'm like, why did you sign up for this? Like, this is not gonna fit with your personality in social life. But knowing that I have like weeks and. And so much great off time in the low points, it makes the higher points worth it.
- [51:29]
Ali
And you have to give me your voice because, like, I know you turn it on because talking to you, you sound like so organic. But I know you can turn on a switch and start talking like you're on tv.
- [51:44]
Kens Brooks
It. So yes. They also have been like trying to shy away from that when.
- [51:49]
Ali
When I really.
- [51:50]
Kens Brooks
When you host something, like you'll have a host of a show and then I'm an analyst. So I kind of get teed up. The questions, kens, what do you think of this? Which allows me to act more organic. But if I'm in like the host chair and I have to like, turn it on. I used to do it as like a drunk party trick when I was like in my senior year of college. It was so funny. They'd be like, ken, turn it on. And be like, here we go. I need something to read. Let me find.
- [52:12]
Ali
Yeah, because we need a little ball.
- [52:14]
Kens Brooks
Need to hear it. Have made the final four while 16 straight tournaments. A double digit seed has made the sweet 16. Last sweet 16 with all single digit seeds was 2007.
- [52:26]
Ali
Like there is a switch. There's a switch and it turns on. Yeah, but it's so satisfying. I feel like you need to like read an audible book in that voice because it's so clear you can enunciate.
- [52:37]
Kens Brooks
Right.
- [52:38]
Ali
Have you ever made a mistake on tv?
- [52:42]
Kens Brooks
Yes, I. There was. There's definitely. I think there were two. I don't know why the other one's slipping me right now. I was so. I was. This was like last summer and I was. My producer was. They love When I, like, it's great tv. When I kind of disagree with, you know, the other analysts and stuff. And I was so, like, passionate and pumped up, like, ready to go back at this guy. And I was so riled up. We were talking about the Steelers, and I called Russell Wilson, Russell Westbrook, which is an NBA player. So that was. And I was like, so in the moment. I was like, yeah, Russell Westbrook can't throw to George Pickens. And I'm like, well, that's. That's because he's playing basketball.
- [53:24]
Ali
That's because he doesn't know how to throw a football.
- [53:26]
Kens Brooks
That would. Yes, that would be because he's not getting paid to do that. So little things like that, I. As far as, like, choking and really forgetting what I had to say, not too much anymore. Like, this point in my career, I'm saying that, like, I've been doing this for 10 years. I. I really feel like I know what I'm talking about confidently. Like, I'm not so worried about what were the notes on your sheet? What were, like, the specific stats. Like, I can sit there. I can talk ball. I know if we go off script with this guy, like, I can. I can do that. And I think that is why you see those people on TV do it so effortlessly, is because at some point, it just feels like you're talking to the person next to you. And to this day, I don't even know how many people watch some of our, like, digital streaming stuff. I don't think it would help me to know. Like, it's probably for the best. I don't. So there was definitely, like, a switch, I'd say, over the past year.
- [54:19]
Ali
And how are you watching March Madness? Like, are you watching With Friends? Are you sitting down with everybody, like, screaming at the tv? Or are you watching, like, in the office or in your bed?
- [54:29]
Kens Brooks
It's a mix of both. The stuff that goes on during the day. Yes, I'm in the office actually, this week, Thursday, Friday, for conference tournament championships. So as that's, you know, finishing out, we're doing like, a gambling cave of me and another guy live streaming on YouTube and just doing, like, live betting with a whiteboard and the live chat. So, like, that's like, an actual fun one. But no, it's so, like, sometimes I am just playing, you know, normal, young 20s girl, and it's like Friday night in a bar, and I'm, like, kind of, like, looking at stats on my phone. It's just, like, awesome, because I have to. If I wake up and don't know what's going on. It makes my job the next day very hard. So I'd say totally a mix. Hopefully maybe I'll be there for the Final Four this year. But those first few rounds are a lot during the day, so it makes it easier to be at work.
- [55:14]
Ali
Work. That's awesome. Okay. Well, last year the women's championship had more viewers than the men, 18.7 million viewers, and the men was 14.82. Why do you think that they outperformed the men's?
- [55:31]
Kens Brooks
I think we saw finally some, like, tangible personalities and people and faces to stick to women's basketball, which we honestly haven't had men's college basketball in a really long time. Like, and that's someone who, who does this for a living. And, and you fall in love with personalities or drama or the, or anything. And a lot of it's media based. And I think the media did such a great job of feeding into what was going on. And the women in the, at the schools did such a great job of, you know, living up to that hype. I will definitely say I think I can name way easier 5 awesome women's college basketball players than I can men right now. Like, if I were to speed, like, which is. You can't say that about many sports going on and you definitely couldn't say that five or six years ago, which I love.
- [56:24]
Ali
And speaking of the girls, is there any good starter advice when it comes to sports betting?
- [56:31]
Kens Brooks
Oh, I think you start. I. The best way to learn and understand how like the money and the payout works is really just to do it. Like you just play around with, oh, if I do $5 was the payout. Oh, well, if I do 10 and then you're like playing around and the odds and stuff start to make a little more sense. But straight betting, which is not parlay. So just $5 for this team to beat this team, bang. Done. So those are called money lines, which are when you're just picking a team to beat another team. And then the other fun thing, I think if you don't really care who wins is taking the over in the game, which means you're taking over the combined points that odds makers are saying. So say the total is 100 points. You're asking for both teams to combine for over 100 points total. So one could score 51 scores, you know, 55, whatever the case is. But then you're just rooting for points and like, that's, that's.
- [57:23]
Ali
Are you able to bet?
- [57:25]
Kens Brooks
Yeah. So we're not. Since we're not a sports book. Like, we can bet. If I worked for FanDuel or DraftKings or whatever, that's a different story. A lot of different networks are different. But I'd think it'd be a little fraudulent if I was telling America how to spend their money and I wasn't allowed to.
- [57:43]
Ali
I find that so interesting just because, like, players aren't allowed to bet, which that makes total sense. Like, then. Then you could, like, skew if you really bet enough money. What other sports do you think more female fans should pay attention to?
- [58:01]
Kens Brooks
I do think I've fallen in love with hockey since I've moved down to Florida and the Florida Panthers, obviously, them being awesome help that. But that's you. Anything can happen so quickly. Like, that game can change in a heartbeat with how fast that puck moves. I think is super, super fun. I've always been. I selfishly, I played volleyball. Women's college volleyball, to me is. Is one of those sports where I will fight that. Watching women's volleyball is more entertaining than men's because the rallies are longer and it's like you have. You have a chance to get every ball. Unlike the men sometimes when it's like, he's just gonna hit this so hard and it's. It's gonna be over. But the women like this long rallies. And they're so. They're so cool, too. Like, those are some of the coolest athletes I feel like in college sports. So that's around Thanksgiving is those playoffs. But that's a really, really fun one.
- [58:50]
Ali
So interesting. Actually, one of my husband's old teammates from the Raiders, his wife just became a part of the new professional volleyball league.
- [59:00]
Kens Brooks
Nice.
- [59:01]
Ali
And she's playing in San Diego. And I do find volleyball, like, a fun sport to watch. I kind of compare it to, like, basketball, in a way is like, there's like always, like, something happening. It's not like a slow sport.
- [59:12]
Kens Brooks
And you don't need to know everything. Like, you can see when that was good or that was bad.
- [59:17]
Ali
Exactly. Okay. And then we're gonna end off with some rapid fire questions with a little March Madness twist. So you can just say one or the other or you can give like a little one, two sentence. Vintage jerseys or modern jerseys?
- [59:32]
Kens Brooks
Vintage bask. March Madness is all about the nostalgia here.
- [59:36]
Ali
I've never heard anybody say modern, so, yeah, I would be worried if you said modern. Watching the game at a sports bar or hosting a watch party.
- [59:46]
Kens Brooks
Oh, if it's my team. Sometimes I like watching at Home when I know I'm with a crowd of my own fans.
- [59:54]
Ali
Yeah. Don't invite anybody from the other team bracket challenge with a friend or office pool.
- [60:03]
Kens Brooks
Office pool for my office being your office being people who really are dialed into this.
- [60:10]
Ali
Exactly. I'm like, do your friends get into it?
- [60:13]
Kens Brooks
Yeah, a lot of, I mean just going to University of Georgia, like big football and sports school. Most of my girlfriends are pretty in tune. I help them with some like niche things, but they're all into that.
- [60:24]
Ali
Love that legendary coach or rising star coach?
- [60:28]
Kens Brooks
Rising star coach. I love, I love the young guys.
- [60:31]
Ali
Like underdog.
- [60:33]
Kens Brooks
I, I'm a sucker for an underdog.
- [60:35]
Ali
NBA or wnba.
- [60:38]
Kens Brooks
Ooh, I'm. I grew up watching the NBA. Like that's a controversial answer. But I'm an NBA girl. Not everyone loves it. The NBA isn't what it used to be, but it still has a place in my heart.
- [60:55]
Ali
Cinderella story or number one seed dominating Cinderella story.
- [60:59]
Kens Brooks
Come on, come on now.
- [61:01]
Ali
Right? I mean I shouldn't have even had to ask. Filling out brackets based on research or going with gut feelings.
- [61:08]
Kens Brooks
Gut feelings. And that's coming from like the research head. It's really my career.
- [61:14]
Ali
Well, and that's. That brings me to my last and final question. So then when it comes to sports betting, how much is you giving like your 2 cents going off of your gut and what you truly believe based off or versus like research and like well backed like facts.
- [61:31]
Kens Brooks
So since I like work for the model, simulations, whatever, like every morning we get the game scripts come in, it goes to the model and it like projects out. Hey, here's where you have value in this game. You have this player shooting more than this and whatever this player for more touchdowns. Then I kind of with my vibes, pick which ones I'm gonna give out that day. And like, like great example was yesterday. My team as in me and the coding guys, like the model went 7 and 6, but I went on air with three picks. Picks. I picked three of the winners. You know what I mean? So sometimes like guys, it's because you have a female on your team, you don't have it.
- [62:09]
Ali
I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on Sunday Sports club. Where can the people follow you?
- [62:15]
Kens Brooks
Tick Tock is a lot of my March Madness 101 Football 101, which is Ken's Brooks bets. And then my Twitter and Instagram also the same. Twitter is a little more sports betting niche, but still, still, still good content. And I literally just started a YouTube page. Also Ken's Brooks bets. I did my first vlog, little March Madness prep, nails, eyebrows, getting ready for the chaos. So bear with me there. But would love some new subscribers there because we just literally just started that yesterday.
- [62:42]
Ali
I would love to put in a request to show some of the behind the scenes of like going to the office, like what you're doing to prep to be on camera. So that's my request personally.
- [62:51]
Kens Brooks
Yes, I would love requests any and questions about March Madness too. I'm always looking at like my Twitter comments or Instagram. Happy to answer any questions.
- [63:00]
Ali
I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I am excited to be following along because again March Madness don't know much. So I will be following you. Thanks. Thank you so much. Yeah.
- [63:10]
Kens Brooks
Thank you.
- [63:12]
Ali
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.
- [63:23]
Kens Brooks
Episode.